Steve, Yes you can ask me questions. Also, I suggest you build two support frame templates first out of 2X4’ s just make sure they are square. Lay them side by side to the left of your equipment panel. Drive a stake at each end of the support frame templates. Move the templates to the next position, drive stakes until you get all the way around to the right side of the equipment panel. Check the distance from the last support frame to the first support frame, also check to see how the skimmer and return will effect the last support frame. If everything lines up based the template layout, then you can build the 17 support frames and custom build the last support frame. If the template is out of range , you may need to adjust the measurements. I hope this helps. Thanks Norman
Two questions: Is it possible to install the decking in the other direction, rather then the deck boards aiming towards the pool? On the quantity of 4 x 4's purchased, are you getting two posts out of one 4 x 4? Just finished our 18' pool this past weekend and buying materials for the deck tomorrow. Thank you for putting together a comprehensive video on how to do this!
Yes, the decking can be set in any direction as long as you maintain the correct distance between the pool wall and ends of the trapezoid frame. You should also add additional 2x6 support boards between the center support on both sides running parallel with the two sides of the support frame. Depending on the ground level height to your pool’s top rail, you can get two 48” 4x4’s posts from one 8 ft post. Thanks, Norman
Hey Mr. Gooch, I am in the process of refurbishing a above ground pool deck and the deck boards will be slightly higher than the pool frame instead of tucked under it. Will it still be ok to build them that way? Thanks in advance
Sean, You can build that way only if you have access to the bolts and screws that hold the top rail together. If you have to replace your pool liner, you do not want to remove the deck boards or framing to gain access. Thanks for watching my video. Norman
You are right, some of the deck boards have the bark side facing downward. This is because the side with the bark facing upward was either chipped, knotty or had a rougher surface compared to the side with the Pith side facing upward. I always select the best side of the deck board for the top surface and try to orient as many deck boards as possible with the bark side facing up. See the articles below: Installing Treated Yellow Pine Deck Boards Should I place the decking bark side up or bark side down? Placing the decking bark side up helps minimize cupping, reduces splitting, and lowers the chance of rot. It also results in fewer splinters and retains less water. “The Bark-Side / Pith-Side Debate” Researchers in Wood Surface Chemistry at the USDA Forest Service, Forest Products Lab released a study “The Bark-Side / Pith-Side Debate” They examined several old decks with pressure-treated southern yellow pine decking to observe how the boards were performing. Based on their assessment, it seemed that the orientation of the boards didn't make much of a difference. Boards laid with the bark side up had similar issues, such as cupping, curling, cracking, early signs of rot, and splintering, compared to those laid with the bark side down. A wood researcher from the University of Massachusetts Amherst, Professor Paul Fisette, addressed the issue of deck board orientation. His advice is to choose the best-looking surface and install the decking with the best face up. He also recommends securely fastening the deck boards and applying an annual coating of water repellent. What do the wood manufacturers recommend? The Southern Forest Products Association advises placing the bark side up, as does Georgia Pacific's installation information for their pressure-treated lumber. It is noted that if the bark side of the decking board has a poor appearance when placed up, flip the board over so that the bark side is facing down. Thanks for watching my video Norman
Ann, NOTE: IMPORTANT: Please check with your local building inspection office and get the necessary construction requirements for the deck you plan to build. Since I have not built a 33 ft. round deck and tested the trapezoid size, I can only give you suggested measurements to use for your pool. The calculations need to be tested first, before building. Calculations: The circumference of a 33 ft round pool is about 103.67’ - Based on the number of square feet use the measurements below to build two trapezoid templates out of 2X4s. The size trapezoid needed to cover the square feet around the pool: Board 1 - 47 ¾ Board 2 - 53 ¾ Board 3 - 60” Board 4 - 36 ½” Board 5 - 36 ½” Due to the additional span of the trapezoid, you need to do the following: Double the center support - (Board #2) - Place 2 boards side-by-side You will need to add an additional center 4X4 support post to boards 3-2-1. Use construction screws (instead of deck screws) to assemble the trapezoids and lower support frames. You should set your posts in concrete footings (do not use floating block system) Make sure you cut boards 1-2-& 3 at a 10-degree angle on both ends. Build Templates First: Build two trapezoid templates out of 2X4’s. Layout the templates around your pool and test the fit, make any size adjustments needed, and test again. It takes 18 trapezoids to complete a circle, the 18th trapezoid is custom-built to fit the distance between the equipment panel and to connect to the 1st trapezoid frame. Once your template layout is correct, then you can build 17 trapezoid frames all the same size and 1 trapezoid frame custom-built to connect to the first frame. (Trapezoid #18). For template layout help, View my Part 3 - Pool Deck Construction Update Video. Below is the formula on how to calculate a trapezoid frame to fit your pool. You can use this to double-check your calculation figures. How to Calculate the Trapezoid Size for a Round Pool Here are the steps: Step 1 Calculate the number of feet around the perimeter of the pool. Example: Pool diameter 21ft. The formula for circumference is πd, meaning pi (~3.14) times the diameter of the pool. Plugging in 21 for d, you get π (21), which equals 65.973 ft. Step 2 The formula for adding a 3ft deck around the perimeter Adding a 3ft wide deck increases the pool’s perimeter to 21+3+3 = 27 ft in diameter. Area of the added 3ft deck minus the original pool perimeter = π (27)2 Minus (21)2 = Area of the deck = 72 π ≈ 226.2 sq ft 2 2 The trapezoid frame will need to cover the square footage above. Step 3 The formula for the area of a trapezoid = A = ½ (a + b) h The area of a trapezoid is the space contained within its 4 sides. To find out the area of a trapezoid, you need to know the length of two parallel sides and the distance (height) between them. The sides should be measured in feet (ft) for square footage calculations. where (A) is the area of a trapezoid, 'a' and 'b' are the bases (parallel sides), and 'h' is the height (the perpendicular distance between a and b) For a 3ft deck, the parallel sides will be 36 ½”. You have the known a and b. Step 4 Trapezoid height formula The height of a trapezoid is the distance between its bases. And the bases are the parallel sides of the trapezoid. There are two methods of calculating the height of a trapezoid, when the area is known and when the area is unknown. The height of a trapezoid using the area When calculating the height of a trapezoid using the area, you also need the measurement of the bases a and b The formula method uses bases a and b along with the area of a trapezoid to determine its height: h = (a+b) / 2A Input: a - 1st base of the trapezoid b - 2nd Base of the trapezoid A - Area of the trapezoid The second formula for determining the height of the trapezoid using the non-parallel sides and angles: h = c × sin ∠α h = d × sin ∠δ Input: h-Height of the trapezoid c - non-parallel leg c d - non-parallel leg d and sin - The sine function (the ratio of the length of the opposite side to that of the hypotenuse in a right-angled triangle. Step 5 Building the Isosceles Trapezoid: The sum of all the angles in a trapezoid is equal to 360°. The sum of the angles on the same side is equal to 180°. To build a deck around a round pool you will need 18 trapezoids. The Base - Center and Top support boards must be cut at a 10-degree angle on both ends. The two parallel side boards are straight-cut and must be the same length. You have 226.2 ft to cover around the pool - determine the size trapezoid by calculating the area one trapezoid will cover. I hope this helps. Thanks, Norman
I am confused about how the deck boards get configured and when to make the special pie sliced looking cuts on the deck boards to keep a uniform look. Is there a pattern to follow?
Kurt, When you align the first board on the right edge of the first support frame it sets the pattern. As you continue laying the deck boards when you get to deck boards 7, 8, and 9 this is where you will start cutting angles so the deck boards do not overlap the next support frame's edge. To cut the angles, lay the deck board just like the previous 6 boards and set the same spacing between the boards. Use a straight edge over the top of the deck board and align the straight edge with the next support frame's edge and draw a line. Cut on the mark and secure the board to the deck frame. Follow the same procedure for boards 8 & 9. The closer you get to the next support frame edge, the shorter the deck board will be cut. Once you start on the next support frame, repeat with the first board on the right edge of the frame. To make it easier for you, you can go ahead and install the first deck board on the right edge of each support frame. (starter board) then start laying the deck boards and as you get to boards 7, 8 & 9 you will see they will not fit until you cut the angle so the deck boards will follow the pattern up to the next support frame's edge. I hope this helps with your question. Thanks for watching my video Norman
Russ, Since I have not built a 24 ft. round deck and tested the trapezoid size, I cannot give you exact measurements to use for your pool. Any trapezoid calculation needs to be tested first, before building. The circumference of a 24ft round pool is 75.382ft - Based on the number of feet, use the measurements below to build two trapezoid templates out of 2X4s, this is only a suggested starting point. View my Part 3 Deck Construction video for board diagram number identification. Board 1 - 38 3/4"" Board 2 - 44 3/4" Board 3 - 51" Board 4 - 36 ½” Board 5 - 36 ½” Cut boards 1-2-& 3 at a 10-degree angle on both ends. Make sure the template support frames are square. Please view the Part 3 Pool Deck Construction Update Video for instructions on laying out the trapezoid templates. Note: Do not build 17 support frames using these dimensions, build two templates first, test, then make adjustments until you get it right before you build all 17 frames. Thanks for watching my videos. Norman
Kevin, You can’t use the same measurements. The circumference of a 27ft pool has additional feet compared to an 18ft pool. You calculate the circumference in feet then figure the trapezoid area to cover the circumference. Thanks Norman
Kevin, I haven't built a 27' round pool. Since I have not measured and built templates to test and verify the trapezoid size needed, I cannot give you exact measurements. However, I can give you a suggested trapezoid size starting point. You will need to build two templates using the measurements below and follow my instructions on the Part 3 Pool Deck Construction Update. Board 1 - 41 3/4" Board 2 - 47 3/4" Board 3 - 54 " Board 4 and 5 - 36 1/2" This is for a 3' wide deck around the pool. If you increase the deck size to 48", depending on your local building codes, you may be required to add an additional 4 X 4 post and deck block to the center of board 1-2 and 3. Even if this is not required, I would add anyway for a safer support structure under the decking. Thanks, Norman
It takes 18 trapezoids to form a circle, the size of the circle will determine the size of each trapezoid. The formula for the circumference of a circle is 2 x pi x r(radius). A 20 ft pool circumference has a diameter of 62.857 ft. - To find the area of a trapezoid, start by adding together the length of the bases, which are the 2 sides of the trapezoid that are parallel with each other. Then, multiply that number by the height of the trapezoid. Finish by dividing the product by 2 to find the area. You can find a trapezoid calculator online to help determine the area of a trapezoid. Thanks, Norman
Each section has a 10 degree bevel on each end that should be 20 degrees total difference per section ... 18sections x 20 degrees ....360 degrees. You would think for a 20ft pool just make 20 sections instead with 9 degree bevels on each end which would be 18 degrees total per section. 20sec x18degs =360degs.
This is exactly what I was looking for my 18 foot pool. Thank you very much. If I have any questions I hope I can count on you for some expert advice.
Steve,
Yes you can ask me questions. Also, I suggest you build two support frame templates first out of 2X4’ s just make sure they are square. Lay them side by side to the left of your equipment panel. Drive a stake at each end of the support frame templates. Move the templates to the next position, drive stakes until you get all the way around to the right side of the equipment panel. Check the distance from the last support frame to the first support frame, also check to see how the skimmer and return will effect the last support frame. If everything lines up based the template layout, then you can build the 17 support frames and custom build the last support frame. If the template is out of range , you may need to adjust the measurements. I hope this helps.
Thanks
Norman
Everything came out great. I also have to do the same around the pool. But only about half of that
Spectacular Mr. Gooch.
Two questions:
Is it possible to install the decking in the other direction, rather then the deck boards aiming towards the pool?
On the quantity of 4 x 4's purchased, are you getting two posts out of one 4 x 4?
Just finished our 18' pool this past weekend and buying materials for the deck tomorrow. Thank you for putting together a comprehensive video on how to do this!
Yes, the decking can be set in any direction as long as you maintain the correct distance between the pool wall and ends of the trapezoid frame. You should also add additional 2x6 support boards between the center support on both sides running parallel with the two sides of the support frame. Depending on the ground level height to your pool’s top rail, you can get two 48” 4x4’s posts from one 8 ft post.
Thanks,
Norman
Hey Mr. Gooch, I am in the process of refurbishing a above ground pool deck and the deck boards will be slightly higher than the pool frame instead of tucked under it. Will it still be ok to build them that way? Thanks in advance
Sean,
You can build that way only if you have access to the bolts and screws that hold the top rail together. If you have to replace your pool liner, you do not want to remove the deck boards or framing to gain access.
Thanks for watching my video.
Norman
I'm shocked that a lot of the 5/4 were installed upside down 😮 half of those will cup and hold water once they dry out.
You are right, some of the deck boards have the bark side facing downward. This is because the side with the bark facing upward was either chipped, knotty or had a rougher surface compared to the side with the Pith side facing upward. I always select the best side of the deck board for the top surface and try to orient as many deck boards as possible with the bark side facing up.
See the articles below:
Installing Treated Yellow Pine Deck Boards
Should I place the decking bark side up or bark side down?
Placing the decking bark side up helps minimize cupping, reduces splitting, and lowers the chance of rot. It also results in fewer splinters and retains less water.
“The Bark-Side / Pith-Side Debate”
Researchers in Wood Surface Chemistry at the USDA Forest Service, Forest Products Lab released a study “The Bark-Side / Pith-Side Debate”
They examined several old decks with pressure-treated southern yellow pine decking to observe how the boards were performing. Based on their assessment, it seemed that the orientation of the boards didn't make much of a difference. Boards laid with the bark side up had similar issues, such as cupping, curling, cracking, early signs of rot, and splintering, compared to those laid with the bark side down.
A wood researcher from the University of Massachusetts Amherst, Professor Paul Fisette, addressed the issue of deck board orientation.
His advice is to choose the best-looking surface and install the decking with the best face up. He also recommends securely fastening the deck boards and applying an annual coating of water repellent.
What do the wood manufacturers recommend?
The Southern Forest Products Association advises placing the bark side up, as does Georgia Pacific's installation information for their pressure-treated lumber.
It is noted that if the bark side of the decking board has a poor appearance when placed up, flip the board over so that the bark side is facing down.
Thanks for watching my video
Norman
What would the measurements be for a 33 foot above ground pool?
Ann,
NOTE: IMPORTANT:
Please check with your local building inspection office and get the necessary construction requirements for the deck you plan to build.
Since I have not built a 33 ft. round deck and tested the trapezoid size, I can only give you suggested measurements to use for your pool. The calculations need to be tested first, before building.
Calculations:
The circumference of a 33 ft round pool is about 103.67’ - Based on the number of square feet use the measurements below to build two trapezoid templates out of 2X4s.
The size trapezoid needed to cover the square feet around the pool:
Board 1 - 47 ¾
Board 2 - 53 ¾
Board 3 - 60”
Board 4 - 36 ½”
Board 5 - 36 ½”
Due to the additional span of the trapezoid, you need to do the following:
Double the center support - (Board #2) - Place 2 boards side-by-side
You will need to add an additional center 4X4 support post to boards 3-2-1.
Use construction screws (instead of deck screws) to assemble the trapezoids and lower support frames.
You should set your posts in concrete footings (do not use floating block system)
Make sure you cut boards 1-2-& 3 at a 10-degree angle on both ends.
Build Templates First:
Build two trapezoid templates out of 2X4’s. Layout the templates around your pool and test the fit, make any size adjustments needed, and test again.
It takes 18 trapezoids to complete a circle, the 18th trapezoid is custom-built to fit the distance between the equipment panel and to connect to the 1st trapezoid frame.
Once your template layout is correct, then you can build 17 trapezoid frames all the same size and 1 trapezoid frame custom-built to connect to the first frame. (Trapezoid #18).
For template layout help, View my Part 3 - Pool Deck Construction Update Video.
Below is the formula on how to calculate a trapezoid frame to fit your pool. You can use this to double-check your calculation figures.
How to Calculate the Trapezoid Size for a Round Pool
Here are the steps:
Step 1
Calculate the number of feet around the perimeter of the pool.
Example: Pool diameter 21ft.
The formula for circumference is πd, meaning pi (~3.14) times the diameter of the pool. Plugging in 21 for d, you get π (21), which equals 65.973 ft.
Step 2
The formula for adding a 3ft deck around the perimeter
Adding a 3ft wide deck increases the pool’s perimeter to 21+3+3 = 27 ft in diameter.
Area of the added 3ft deck minus the original pool perimeter =
π (27)2 Minus (21)2 = Area of the deck = 72 π ≈ 226.2 sq ft
2 2
The trapezoid frame will need to cover the square footage above.
Step 3
The formula for the area of a trapezoid
= A = ½ (a + b) h
The area of a trapezoid is the space contained within its 4 sides. To find out the area of a trapezoid, you need to know the length of two parallel sides and the distance (height) between them. The sides should be measured in feet (ft) for square footage calculations.
where (A) is the area of a trapezoid, 'a' and 'b' are the bases (parallel sides), and 'h' is the height (the perpendicular distance between a and b)
For a 3ft deck, the parallel sides will be 36 ½”. You have the known a and b.
Step 4
Trapezoid height formula
The height of a trapezoid is the distance between its bases. And the bases are the parallel sides of the trapezoid.
There are two methods of calculating the height of a trapezoid, when the area is known and when the area is unknown.
The height of a trapezoid using the area
When calculating the height of a trapezoid using the area, you also need the measurement of the bases a and b
The formula method uses bases a and b along with the area of a trapezoid to determine its height:
h = (a+b) / 2A
Input:
a - 1st base of the trapezoid
b - 2nd Base of the trapezoid
A - Area of the trapezoid
The second formula for determining the height of the trapezoid using the non-parallel sides and angles:
h = c × sin ∠α
h = d × sin ∠δ
Input:
h-Height of the trapezoid
c - non-parallel leg c
d - non-parallel leg d and
sin - The sine function (the ratio of the length of the opposite side to that of the hypotenuse in a right-angled triangle.
Step 5
Building the Isosceles Trapezoid:
The sum of all the angles in a trapezoid is equal to 360°. The sum of the angles on the same side is equal to 180°.
To build a deck around a round pool you will need 18 trapezoids. The Base - Center and Top support boards must be cut at a 10-degree angle on both ends. The two parallel side boards are straight-cut and must be the same length.
You have 226.2 ft to cover around the pool - determine the size trapezoid by calculating the area one trapezoid will cover.
I hope this helps.
Thanks,
Norman
I am confused about how the deck boards get configured and when to make the special pie sliced looking cuts on the deck boards to keep a uniform look. Is there a pattern to follow?
Kurt,
When you align the first board on the right edge of the first support frame it sets the pattern. As you continue laying the deck boards when you get to deck boards 7, 8, and 9 this is where you will start cutting angles so the deck boards do not overlap the next support frame's edge.
To cut the angles, lay the deck board just like the previous 6 boards and set the same spacing between the boards. Use a straight edge over the top of the deck board and align the straight edge with the next support frame's edge and draw a line. Cut on the mark and secure the board to the deck frame. Follow the same procedure for boards 8 & 9.
The closer you get to the next support frame edge, the shorter the deck board will be cut.
Once you start on the next support frame, repeat with the first board on the right edge of the frame.
To make it easier for you, you can go ahead and install the first deck board on the right edge of each support frame.
(starter board) then start laying the deck boards and as you get to boards 7, 8 & 9 you will see they will not fit until you cut the angle so the deck boards will follow the pattern up to the next support frame's edge.
I hope this helps with your question.
Thanks for watching my video
Norman
What sir are the trapezoid board lenghts for a 24 foot round pool.
Tks. Russ
Russ,
Since I have not built a 24 ft. round deck and tested the trapezoid size, I cannot give you exact measurements to use for your pool. Any trapezoid calculation needs to be tested first, before building.
The circumference of a 24ft round pool is 75.382ft - Based on the number of feet, use the measurements below to build two trapezoid templates out of 2X4s, this is only a suggested starting point. View my Part 3 Deck Construction video for board diagram number identification.
Board 1 - 38 3/4""
Board 2 - 44 3/4"
Board 3 - 51"
Board 4 - 36 ½”
Board 5 - 36 ½”
Cut boards 1-2-& 3 at a 10-degree angle on both ends.
Make sure the template support frames are square.
Please view the Part 3 Pool Deck Construction Update Video for instructions on laying out the trapezoid templates.
Note: Do not build 17 support frames using these dimensions, build two templates first, test, then make adjustments until you get it right before you build all 17 frames.
Thanks for watching my videos.
Norman
Just to give me a general idea. Could you tell me around how much it would cost in materials for a deck this size?
For the deck around the pool, 4 deck benches, railing, and enclose bottom will cost around $3,750.00.
Thanks,
Norman
@@NormanGooch Thank you very much for your reply and help.
How would I figure a 27' round can I use the same measures
Kevin,
You can’t use the same measurements. The circumference of a 27ft pool has additional feet compared to an 18ft pool. You calculate the circumference in feet then figure the trapezoid area to cover the circumference.
Thanks
Norman
Norman Gooch can you tell me the measurements for a 27’ round with a 4’walkway
Kevin,
I haven't built a 27' round pool. Since I have not measured and built templates to test and verify the trapezoid size needed, I cannot give you exact measurements. However, I can give you a suggested trapezoid size starting point.
You will need to build two templates using the measurements below and follow my instructions on the Part 3 Pool Deck Construction Update.
Board 1 - 41 3/4"
Board 2 - 47 3/4"
Board 3 - 54 "
Board 4 and 5 - 36 1/2"
This is for a 3' wide deck around the pool. If you increase the deck size to 48", depending on your local building codes, you may be required to add an additional 4 X 4 post and deck block to the center of board 1-2 and 3. Even if this is not required, I would add anyway for a safer support structure under the decking.
Thanks,
Norman
Norman Gooch ok thanks very much
How would I figure out if I have a 20 foot pool
It takes 18 trapezoids to form a circle, the size of the circle will determine the size of each trapezoid. The formula for the circumference of a circle is 2 x pi x r(radius). A 20 ft pool circumference has a diameter of 62.857 ft. - To find the area of a trapezoid, start by adding together the length of the bases, which are the 2 sides of the trapezoid that are parallel with each other. Then, multiply that number by the height of the trapezoid. Finish by dividing the product by 2 to find the area. You can find a trapezoid calculator online to help determine the area of a trapezoid.
Thanks,
Norman
Norman Gooch thanks
Each section has a 10 degree bevel on each end that should be 20 degrees total difference per section ... 18sections x 20 degrees ....360 degrees. You would think for a 20ft pool just make 20 sections instead with 9 degree bevels on each end which would be 18 degrees total per section. 20sec x18degs =360degs.