Perfect real vs feel. Like you said, Trout doesn't ACTUALLY DO what he thinks he does. If he tells kids to do that, they'll pound balls into the ground or hit weak pop ups.
I think it is swinging down, but once you emplement rest of your body; stride, hands back, turning the back side drives you through the hit zone. I think its a hand trainer. It just the concept to get you half way there.
@@AntonelliBaseball Idk man, I quit baseball before highschool and I'm not a coach. Pause at 6:15 If their bat naturally doesnt turn up, tell them to lean their upper body back more as their hips turn and their back knee bends. Their wrists will be at their midsection (?) so if their torso leans back and their wrists are there, then their bat should automatically turn up.
I teach my kids to take the knob of the bat to the inside of the ball, while turning their palm up and finishing up. Seems to get my kids on the proper swing path while also keeping their hands inside the ball.
If your kids are throwing their hands to the ball they are losing power. If the arms are moving independently of the torso just prior to and at contact they lose power, the power of the legs and torso aren't transferred to the arms and then the barrel. The goal should be to hit the ball as hard as possible every time but in a controlled manner.
I think what Trout means by "swinging down" is the start of the swing. By thinking this your right elbow (if you're a right handed hitter) will brace against your rib cage higher. This does two things: A- your elbow will engage your ribcage at a higher point, which will make it so you don't "upper cut" or have a "U" shaped swing/bat path. B- your bat speed will stay fast because it makes sure that your elbow makes contact with your body, and just not getting close to it.
It’s funny how you mentioned uppercut because the body mechanics of a baseball swing is very similar that to an uppercut. For example, having the weight in your back leg, keeping the punching elbow as close to your body as possible to get the entire weight of the strike, and a full rotation with the lead shoulder being slightly above the rear shoulder. I would add it’s more like an uppercut to the solar plexus than the head, but because you mention that the baseball swing makes more sense to me lol.
I think players who talk "swing down" are really referring to what their top hand is doing and to avoid any casting. Thinking straight down to the ball (Point A to B) helps keep their rear arm connected and more direct to the ball. In his warmup, he isn't aiming at a pitch, so the bottom hand is also swinging straight down to the ground and out to extension. In a real game swing at an oncoming pitch, the bottom hand is going to steer the knob (and connected barrel) forward to and through the ball on plane. Both hands will work together to bring the barrel from above his shoulders down to the hitting zone, where it will naturally flatten out on plane and come slightly up through extension.
I wonder if these guys actually know how far out in front they make contact? The swing down happens, but it isn't into the ball, it was the swing down into ball path then drive OUT towards short.
I heard Tiger Woods talk about his swing thought, which was to have his upper body fire before his hips… literally the exact opposite of what he actually does. It was because he had a habit of getting to aggressive with his lower body. He talked about feel vs. real and he knew that wasn’t actually what he was trying to accomplish. Point being.. swing thoughts often aren’t what is actually going on.
I was told years ago by coaches to swing down. It didn't work for me, and I always wonder what could have been if I was taught differently. I tell my son to swing on a slightly upward path. It has been working for him. He hits mostly liners and hard grounders, not many popups. He hasn't developed HR power yet as he is only 13, but I feel pretty good that he will. Trout is just a different kind of human. Insane how he connects with that kind of a bat path!
His path is fine, swinging down is just a mindset for him to develop that upward swing path. You have to start swinging down to get to a plane where you can comnect
@@rockymountaintrout2689 yeah, I'm not sure I follow the point of this video. The downswing part that leads to contact (and which is the MOST important part of the swing), then must come back up to create the launch angle. Without a proper pre-contact technique, post contact is much more dependent on luck to get a good hit - that's why the focus is on it. And just think about what would happen if your release was hip level and continued around on a plane parallel to the ground?? You would overextend your hip because of how your body is pointing. The upwards angle also takes the steam off of the speed of the bat in the same way a skateboarder heads up the pipe to both get some air and slow down their speed or a big rig truck hits a runaway truck ramp.
Actually swing down? No. Bat trajectory angle negative at contact? No. "Try to swing down" as mind trick to stay inside the ball and allow centifugal force to spike and narrow at peak=contact point? Maybe, if it works for you. Making the bat plane cross (intersectional) with ball plane vs. on plane with ball path is not desirable. However, its important to note that ball path angle at hitzone varies from 4 seam fastball to slider to sinker to curve, etc. In addition, actual bat path is dependent on where the ball is in the zone. Try swinging down at a tit high fastball.
M M Arod, Barry, Canseco, Pujols and many others says it. Ive experimented myself for a long time and i always hit the ball a lot harder when swing straight down to the ball. The difference in exit velo is day/night...
One talks about the beginning of the swing the other about the finish. But one thing is for sure you got to start off short to get extension at finish . So listen to Bonds and Trout they do what they do for a reason.
The hardest balls I've ever hit felt like I was swinging down. It was probably more feel vs real, but it seemed to eliminate wasted motion getting the bat to the ball..
Absolutely correct. Most swings start downward then begin an upward trajectory. This is a silly argument very similar to the linear vs rotational swing. But it classic baseball talk. Lol
I’ve watched and used this drill. He is not saying hit down. He is saying if he feels he is getting under it teaches barrel control. Climb the ladder until you are smoking line drives (on plane at a slightly uphill swing path).
Very good explanation! AROD means well and has great advice - but a golf ball is literally just sitting still on the ground. Your video -helps AROD's explanation more specifically as a baseball coming from a pitcher"s hand is obviously not a golf ball just sitting there on the ground (your explaining the "swing down" meaning in aiding "AROD's advice on how to hit a home run).
Matt, I have followed your videos for a long time. Your understanding of the proper swing is obviously 100% correct. Personally, I think it is fine to feel as though you are swinging down with your hands (which obviously happens during the beginning of the swing) as long as a) your hips and shoulders have separated; b) your hips pull your shoulders and hands; c) the back shoulder does not drop INCORRECTLY as a result of the hands dropping; d) the hands do not drop too aggressively because this will prevent the barrel from flattening behind your body as you always describe it; e) the hands do not push (or pull) the bat toward the pitcher because this will prevent the barrel from dropping below the hands and then swinging up on the right path through the ball; and f) the proper spine angle is maintained. Swinging DOWN a little bit with their hands may help some players avoid extending their back arm too early and may also prevent them from lifting their front shoulder too early and too much. When I play I often try to FEEL as though my hands are dropping down on a slight angle towards the catcher. Albert Pujols, I think, also talked about trying to drop his hands straight down at the beginning of his swing on one of your videos.
I always focused on getting on plane behind the ball so I could drive it in any direction the ball was in. So not really entirely swinging directly down but down and through the ball. If the ball is up in the zone then the barrel will naturally go up to hit it
What if the bat hits the ball while the bat is moving down, but it hits the bottom portion of the ball? The ball is gonna go up, right? That's why I think where the bat strikes the ball is more important than the bat path. I think what's going on with some of these hitters who correct their swing is, they just kind of trick themselves into striking the ball higher or lower. They're really just correcting their aim. But it's highly dependent on body mechanics and just kind of how your brain is wired, so it's different for every hitter.
In the ESPN Video isnt trout just describing the initial physical trigger & thoughts of his swing where the back elbow is driving down........in golf the elbow does the same thing and some golf coaches say the elbow determines the swing path..............you mentioned the knob of the bat determining swing path of barrel.....I would agree. His actual swing shows the 2nd part of the swing when his shoulders tilt and carry the bat through the zone and then his back hand (Elbow) extends through the zone in a palm up.
Great video. WHERE do you think the change occurs in relationship to the point of contact? Should a young hitter be looking to turn up before contact, or after contact? And take out the ball/point of contact. When working on a generic swing (base swing no adjustments made to a pitch), where should the turn up be happening in relationship to their body/legs? In the middle of his body, closer to front leg, in front of right leg? Thanks so much.
Good breakdown. You have to start down, throwing the hands at the ball and finish high. You must hit the ball in out front of you when your swing is back on the way up. Otherwise you will just beat the ball in the ground. The trick is to make sure the hitter doesn't drop their hands too much too soon.
I really enjoy your videos. You provide honest thoughts without the bologna. Your science is right on. I suspect the larger issue is not one of science but a moral one: what is the best way to teach and/or execute a good swing. Trout knows the swing is rotational in nature. It appears to me that some players like to think linearly during the rotational swing to control the bat path. For example, Trout states he is trying to avoid “chicken winging” pop flies and hooking the ball. He doesn’t want to drop his right shoulder too much. A linear thought during a rotational swing likely provides him an efficient bat path that is not too steep on the way up, thus drives the ball more on contact, and provides good extension without rolling top hand. Good teachers know the science and can meet a student at his level of understanding. It’s a moral issue.
@@Garrett1240 thx. You prompted me to watch this video again. It is apparent to me that much of the traditional batting coach vocabulary has been incorrectly re-worked following the age of video replay and review. Staying down on the ball or on top of the ball is not intended to direct the batter to chop down. The term describes the batter’s discipline in controlling lead hip and shoulder. A pulls/fires his lead hip hip or shoulder too soon, he is pulling “up” and out of the zone too quickly. By staying “down” the batter coordinates the turn of his upper and lower body long enough to avoid the lead-side pull. Watch pre-game BP at MLB. The best hits are a product of staying on top of the ball.
I’ve always referred to it as swinging up, because no matter what, your hands will go down, you won’t swing your arms at shoulder level. It’s all about the approach to the BALL, if you’re going up when you’re hitting the ball, you’re swinging up.
Everyone's got an opinion of how to swing. Each individual has to find what works best for them and study the various approaches to get a true understanding. This takes time. Always stay true to what you believe is best if it works. You also have to realize what kind of hitter you are, a line drive singles hitter or a slugger. Very similar to golf
The whole key is what the hips are doing in his demo swing he does not initiate the swing with his hips it is real swing he does when the hips initiate to swing the barrel turns and you get on plane with the ball. kids that swing down and Cut across usually swing with their arms.
Should he throw the bat to the ground? Should he stop his swing with the butt/knob of the bat pointing down? Wait but if the knob of the bat is pointing down the barrel cannot be pointing down at the same time. In order for the barrel to swing down the knob of the bat HAS TO GO UP! This is simple math. E=MC2 stuff. If both the knob and the barrel of the bat are going down at the same time,,,,,, THE BAT IS BROKEN! and you better get some tape! I've learned you can use a splint to fix a broken bat. Just get another bat, and tape the broken one to the other one, and your good! Now that is good advice!
I believe he's talking about the first part of his swinging motion, no? I think after the swinging down you naturally obviously have to come up with the swing.
The video on the left looks awkward because he is not firing hips or dropping rear shoulder. If, in that video, he had fired his hips and turned the shoulder, the the move down to the ball would just be part of a swing that turns up.
My opinion: If people all concede to the fact that the ideal bat path is to meet the trajectory of the ball approaching the plate, then “swing down” or “tilt back” or whatever the message is just aimed to create the desired bat path taking into account each hitter’s tendencies.
My thought is that he is talking about swing down. By swing down you’re basically trying to hit under the ball and create a backspin even tho he has an uppercut swing also like you mentioned follow through is the most important along with extremely fast reflexes Mike Trout is a beast
Actually when you look closely almost all good hitters drop their hands into the launch position before the forward move. Some start with hands high like trout and some actually have their stance in the launch position. Then the swing from there is fairly level (slightly up). Most people focus on the stance which i believe is superfluous. When they load, the hands usually drop to a position similar to throwing a punch (back hand) then they swing forward.
Sometimes I swing with my stomach facing the pitcher. I chop down on the ball like hitting "whack a mole." The bat tip starts out above my head and hits the ground hard.
Big key is the left elbow too. Video on left shows left elbow dropping excessively below chest level. In his real swing he pulls his left arm through and it never goes below his chest. He turns that right palm up as the left elbow pulls through and the bat stays on plane in relation to where the ball is pitched. Not hitting down. He's right where he should be.
If I stay back and swing down when my hips turn it creates the barrel to go from down to up. Is this what is happening on a lot of these guys swings? If I put my weight forward though my swing stays down and becomes a chop motion.
The takeaway from this video is find the best possible model for swing mechanics, not just the hitter du jour, and see what he does with his arms and bat at the start of the forward swing and up to contact. That model is Ken Griffey Jr.
Why is this guy talking strictly about the knob of the bat and what the bat does, when that's not what Mike Trout was talking about. If you look at a Sideview of any successful batter, their hands are positioned at around shoulder height or higher. The strike zone is between your belt line and knees. You take your hands (not the bat) down towards the strike zone. The degree of the downward swing doesn't matter. It can be 5°,15° or whatever degree downward to the ball. Again, he's talking about what your hands should be doing. That's what matters the most. The bat happens to be in your hands and does something different during the swing. The weight of barrel will drop down through the zone, and as the batter's torso rotates, the hands and the bat travel up. Yes, you need to have the right bat path during swing, but your hands have to go down toward the pitch. It's a nano second decision to get to strike zone from your original batting stance. Hands, hands, hands.
Hi Matt, I love your vids and channel because you really look at mechanics without being hyper critical and breakdown mechanics in small chunks. When looking at this swing therr is another dimension to the swing that I like to highlight to players and if you can imagine that dimension as a view from over the top of a swing like Trouts and all good hitters. If you imagine the hands traveling through the path as a circle or arc, the arc at he beginning of the swing starts closer to the center of the circle where speed is created. As the hands travel through the full arc of the swing and into extension the arc gets wider and the barrel begins to catch up to our hands. This is the point where barrel speed increases exponentially. The hands close in at the beginning of the swing arc also provides the leverage needed to provide barrel control at the beginning of the swing which requires less strength once the barrel is on plane to control the path to the ball. Just my 2 cents and that thinking in that added dimension and teach a player to think in that dimension can sometimes help understand the mechanics of an elite swing. I see rapid progression in players I teach with the addition of this. Thoughts? Thanks for your hard work to provide quality baseball content.
They whole "swing down" theory never made a lick of sense... think about it logically, if you are relying on "back spin" to drive the ball out of the park, you are going against the laws of physics... back spin creates drag effects that will PREVENT the ball from traveling great distances... the thing that drives a ball out of the ballpark is FORCE and VELOCITY...
Great video. Down to the ball not down through the ball. Basically. It is like most things in baseball it should be agnostic about the things that are best for what works, like bat position, stride, stance. Then there are some absolutely facts like you talked about in terms of bat path. So whatever gets you into that most effectively is what the best coaches like you will coach, not getting obsessed with one style which isnt necessary.
i think what Trout is misidentifying as "swinging down" is his ability to get his body thrust at the level of the baseball for maximum power... its not his bat swinging down, its the trunk of his body getting down to the level of the ball for maximum "torque" at the point of contact
people forgot about the other part of the physics which is you are spinning 270 degrees on an axis that's tilted so of course it will start moving "down" and as you turn it will move UP!
I've noticed that every time I see someone who shows that move with the hands on a "swing down" path they never include their lower half and what it should be doing simultaneously. I think if they did they might reconsider or clarify what they are saying.
This could easily be done in a 4 or 5 minute video. my son was bored and walked away after 4 minutes. i find this to be the case with your videos. good info, just need to get it said in fewer minutes
it's as simple as what is the barrel doing when you make contact with the ball.. like you always say you want to drive the ball slightly up. why being there are 4 infielders and 3 outfielders plus the benefit of the home run ball. can't hit homers if you're swinging down lol
Could it be that they're understanding of the swing down comes from pulling on the knob. As oppose to player who think swing down means chopping with their barrel? Both are visually understanding it differently hence the controversy
Do you have a connection to Craig Wallenbrock, the Albert Einstein of hitting instructors? This looks similar to what his disciples discuss, well at least with Robert Van Scoyoc. I was a Punch and Judy hitter and was taught how to authentically hit down on the ball by a Harry Walker disciple, because no matter how brilliantly I tried to mimic Ted Williams, even at the age of 58, Williams still had stronger arms and quicker moving hips than me at 20. I was fined for every fly ball and given bonuses for every grounder and line drive hit for two years. The big difference was that playing in a home park with vast fair territory where a line drive could become a triple, and where speed was needed to play center field made these talents important. Today, even a sloth can play center in almost every bandbox park.
If you're actually swinging down then that's the same as uppercutting but from the other direction, which obviously is wrong. If your bat is on the same plane as the ball then it is impossible not to make some sort of contact. I wonder why more hitters don't swing like Ron Cey?
Personally dont see the confusion. As u said seen this type of swing from many greats..... your right. Get the barrel of the bat down. Ahead of the ball so u can swing up lift, drive it. With all that said i would love to see ichiro swing.. few homers singles master. I would bet he almost always somehow swung down on the ball...
Maybe these guys practice swinging down to clean up their bat path and then when they face the pitcher in the game they swing up without out realizing it lol
As a little league coach years ago I taught my kids to swing level through th zone. Naturally the beginning of the swing will be down and the up. The important thing to know is that with a level swing through the entire zone over the plate will increase your chances of hitting the ball.
In the A-Rod video, the ball location on the tee is quite low, which creates a lower hand path than on a high pitch. Secondly, Trout demonstrates the old school mechanics of throwing your hands inside the path of the ball. He barely shows any shoulder or hip rotation compared to what he does in real life. What he demonstrates isolates the hands and gives a false impression of what he’s probably intending to convey. Maybe you could do a tutorial explaining why we should not teach “throwing” our hands to the ball, regardless of pitch height.
What you described isn't old-school at all, it's the opposite actually. You can watch any game of baseball up until even the 90s and you'll see players just throwing their hands at the ball.
Would mlbpa agreement on a short season but expanded rosters enable marginal mlb milb players to earn a prorated mlb minimum salary for that short season . Are 30+ veteran free agents going to have a market value as they've had if there is no games this season.
Remember billy Hamilton actually swinging down
Perfect real vs feel. Like you said, Trout doesn't ACTUALLY DO what he thinks he does. If he tells kids to do that, they'll pound balls into the ground or hit weak pop ups.
Who remembers when 'swing down' meant you were trying to hit the ball on the ground.
I think it is swinging down, but once you emplement rest of your body; stride, hands back, turning the back side drives you through the hit zone. I think its a hand trainer. It just the concept to get you half way there.
you SWING down, and then the natural motion of your body turns the bat head to swing up.
I’ve seen lots of players that their body doesn’t naturally turn the bat up...what do you do then?
@@AntonelliBaseball Idk man, I quit baseball before highschool and I'm not a coach. Pause at 6:15 If their bat naturally doesnt turn up, tell them to lean their upper body back more as their hips turn and their back knee bends. Their wrists will be at their midsection (?) so if their torso leans back and their wrists are there, then their bat should automatically turn up.
You have to make a conscious effort to turn the barrel behind the ball, it doesn't happen if you start by swinging down with your arms
I teach my kids to take the knob of the bat to the inside of the ball, while turning their palm up and finishing up. Seems to get my kids on the proper swing path while also keeping their hands inside the ball.
Miguel Cabrera subscribes to the same theory
If your kids are throwing their hands to the ball they are losing power. If the arms are moving independently of the torso just prior to and at contact they lose power, the power of the legs and torso aren't transferred to the arms and then the barrel. The goal should be to hit the ball as hard as possible every time but in a controlled manner.
Mo Vaughn swung so down, then in a split second, he balanced the bat then swung up violently!
It's like "keep your elbow up." Some people (like me) need to be reminded. Other people have their elbow way too high to begin with.
I think what Trout means by "swinging down" is the start of the swing. By thinking this your right elbow (if you're a right handed hitter) will brace against your rib cage higher. This does two things: A- your elbow will engage your ribcage at a higher point, which will make it so you don't "upper cut" or have a "U" shaped swing/bat path. B- your bat speed will stay fast because it makes sure that your elbow makes contact with your body, and just not getting close to it.
It’s funny how you mentioned uppercut because the body mechanics of a baseball swing is very similar that to an uppercut. For example, having the weight in your back leg, keeping the punching elbow as close to your body as possible to get the entire weight of the strike, and a full rotation with the lead shoulder being slightly above the rear shoulder. I would add it’s more like an uppercut to the solar plexus than the head, but because you mention that the baseball swing makes more sense to me lol.
The correct phrase: "Start down, finish up"
I think players who talk "swing down" are really referring to what their top hand is doing and to avoid any casting. Thinking straight down to the ball (Point A to B) helps keep their rear arm connected and more direct to the ball. In his warmup, he isn't aiming at a pitch, so the bottom hand is also swinging straight down to the ground and out to extension. In a real game swing at an oncoming pitch, the bottom hand is going to steer the knob (and connected barrel) forward to and through the ball on plane. Both hands will work together to bring the barrel from above his shoulders down to the hitting zone, where it will naturally flatten out on plane and come slightly up through extension.
I wonder if these guys actually know how far out in front they make contact? The swing down happens, but it isn't into the ball, it was the swing down into ball path then drive OUT towards short.
I heard Tiger Woods talk about his swing thought, which was to have his upper body fire before his hips… literally the exact opposite of what he actually does. It was because he had a habit of getting to aggressive with his lower body. He talked about feel vs. real and he knew that wasn’t actually what he was trying to accomplish. Point being.. swing thoughts often aren’t what is actually going on.
I was told years ago by coaches to swing down. It didn't work for me, and I always wonder what could have been if I was taught differently. I tell my son to swing on a slightly upward path. It has been working for him. He hits mostly liners and hard grounders, not many popups. He hasn't developed HR power yet as he is only 13, but I feel pretty good that he will. Trout is just a different kind of human. Insane how he connects with that kind of a bat path!
His path is fine, swinging down is just a mindset for him to develop that upward swing path. You have to start swinging down to get to a plane where you can comnect
@@rockymountaintrout2689 yeah, I'm not sure I follow the point of this video. The downswing part that leads to contact (and which is the MOST important part of the swing), then must come back up to create the launch angle. Without a proper pre-contact technique, post contact is much more dependent on luck to get a good hit - that's why the focus is on it.
And just think about what would happen if your release was hip level and continued around on a plane parallel to the ground?? You would overextend your hip because of how your body is pointing. The upwards angle also takes the steam off of the speed of the bat in the same way a skateboarder heads up the pipe to both get some air and slow down their speed or a big rig truck hits a runaway truck ramp.
@@Lilliputian63 little confused on q? Can you change some of the wording and I might be able to answer.
Actually swing down? No. Bat trajectory angle negative at contact? No. "Try to swing down" as mind trick to stay inside the ball and allow centifugal force to spike and narrow at peak=contact point? Maybe, if it works for you. Making the bat plane cross (intersectional) with ball plane vs. on plane with ball path is not desirable. However, its important to note that ball path angle at hitzone varies from 4 seam fastball to slider to sinker to curve, etc. In addition, actual bat path is dependent on where the ball is in the zone. Try swinging down at a tit high fastball.
Trout says it and Bonds says it. Probably a good idea to think it’s important.
M M Arod, Barry, Canseco, Pujols and many others says it. Ive experimented myself for a long time and i always hit the ball a lot harder when swing straight down to the ball. The difference in exit velo is day/night...
Ted Williams didn't. He was pretty good too.
Exactly. You swing down to keep your bat path on the ball longer.
One talks about the beginning of the swing the other about the finish. But one thing is for sure you got to start off short to get extension at finish . So listen to Bonds and Trout they do what they do for a reason.
The hardest balls I've ever hit felt like I was swinging down. It was probably more feel vs real, but it seemed to eliminate wasted motion getting the bat to the ball..
Absolutely correct. Most swings start downward then begin an upward trajectory. This is a silly argument very similar to the linear vs rotational swing. But it classic baseball talk. Lol
They should all just say "down to get on plane early" and "slightly up through plane"
Its too easy
ruclips.net/video/xJw_mtuDySo/видео.html
It’s too easy.. lol says j brewer the famous baseball player
Cameron Fielder fortunately for you its not rocket science
I’ve watched and used this drill. He is not saying hit down. He is saying if he feels he is getting under it teaches barrel control. Climb the ladder until you are smoking line drives (on plane at a slightly uphill swing path).
Very good explanation!
AROD means well and has great advice - but a golf ball is literally just sitting still on the ground.
Your video -helps AROD's explanation more specifically as a baseball coming from a pitcher"s hand is obviously not a golf ball just sitting there on the ground (your explaining the "swing down" meaning in aiding "AROD's advice on how to hit a home run).
Matt, I have followed your videos for a long time. Your understanding of the proper swing is obviously 100% correct. Personally, I think it is fine to feel as though you are swinging down with your hands (which obviously happens during the beginning of the swing) as long as a) your hips and shoulders have separated; b) your hips pull your shoulders and hands; c) the back shoulder does not drop INCORRECTLY as a result of the hands dropping; d) the hands do not drop too aggressively because this will prevent the barrel from flattening behind your body as you always describe it; e) the hands do not push (or pull) the bat toward the pitcher because this will prevent the barrel from dropping below the hands and then swinging up on the right path through the ball; and f) the proper spine angle is maintained. Swinging DOWN a little bit with their hands may help some players avoid extending their back arm too early and may also prevent them from lifting their front shoulder too early and too much. When I play I often try to FEEL as though my hands are dropping down on a slight angle towards the catcher. Albert Pujols, I think, also talked about trying to drop his hands straight down at the beginning of his swing on one of your videos.
I always focused on getting on plane behind the ball so I could drive it in any direction the ball was in. So not really entirely swinging directly down but down and through the ball. If the ball is up in the zone then the barrel will naturally go up to hit it
What if the bat hits the ball while the bat is moving down, but it hits the bottom portion of the ball? The ball is gonna go up, right? That's why I think where the bat strikes the ball is more important than the bat path. I think what's going on with some of these hitters who correct their swing is, they just kind of trick themselves into striking the ball higher or lower. They're really just correcting their aim. But it's highly dependent on body mechanics and just kind of how your brain is wired, so it's different for every hitter.
In the ESPN Video isnt trout just describing the initial physical trigger & thoughts of his swing where the back elbow is driving down........in golf the elbow does the same thing and some golf coaches say the elbow determines the swing path..............you mentioned the knob of the bat determining swing path of barrel.....I would agree. His actual swing shows the 2nd part of the swing when his shoulders tilt and carry the bat through the zone and then his back hand (Elbow) extends through the zone in a palm up.
One more thing. Great channel and content.
Great video. WHERE do you think the change occurs in relationship to the point of contact? Should a young hitter be looking to turn up before contact, or after contact?
And take out the ball/point of contact. When working on a generic swing (base swing no adjustments made to a pitch), where should the turn up be happening in relationship to their body/legs? In the middle of his body, closer to front leg, in front of right leg?
Thanks so much.
Good breakdown. You have to start down, throwing the hands at the ball and finish high. You must hit the ball in out front of you when your swing is back on the way up. Otherwise you will just beat the ball in the ground. The trick is to make sure the hitter doesn't drop their hands too much too soon.
I really enjoy your videos. You provide honest thoughts without the bologna. Your science is right on. I suspect the larger issue is not one of science but a moral one: what is the best way to teach and/or execute a good swing. Trout knows the swing is rotational in nature. It appears to me that some players like to think linearly during the rotational swing to control the bat path. For example, Trout states he is trying to avoid “chicken winging” pop flies and hooking the ball. He doesn’t want to drop his right shoulder too much. A linear thought during a rotational swing likely provides him an efficient bat path that is not too steep on the way up, thus drives the ball more on contact, and provides good extension without rolling top hand. Good teachers know the science and can meet a student at his level of understanding. It’s a moral issue.
Great comment.
@@Garrett1240 thx. You prompted me to watch this video again. It is apparent to me that much of the traditional batting coach vocabulary has been incorrectly re-worked following the age of video replay and review. Staying down on the ball or on top of the ball is not intended to direct the batter to chop down. The term describes the batter’s discipline in controlling lead hip and shoulder. A pulls/fires his lead hip hip or shoulder too soon, he is pulling “up” and out of the zone too quickly. By staying “down” the batter coordinates the turn of his upper and lower body long enough to avoid the lead-side pull. Watch pre-game BP at MLB. The best hits are a product of staying on top of the ball.
I’ve always referred to it as swinging up, because no matter what, your hands will go down, you won’t swing your arms at shoulder level. It’s all about the approach to the BALL, if you’re going up when you’re hitting the ball, you’re swinging up.
Everyone's got an opinion of how to swing. Each individual has to find what works best for them and study the various approaches to get a true understanding. This takes time. Always stay true to what you believe is best if it works. You also have to realize what kind of hitter you are, a line drive singles hitter or a slugger. Very similar to golf
The whole key is what the hips are doing in his demo swing he does not initiate the swing with his hips it is real swing he does when the hips initiate to swing the barrel turns and you get on plane with the ball. kids that swing down and Cut across usually swing with their arms.
Should he throw the bat to the ground? Should he stop his swing with the butt/knob of the bat pointing down? Wait but if the knob of the bat is pointing down the barrel cannot be pointing down at the same time. In order for the barrel to swing down the knob of the bat HAS TO GO UP! This is simple math. E=MC2 stuff. If both the knob and the barrel of the bat are going down at the same time,,,,,, THE BAT IS BROKEN! and you better get some tape! I've learned you can use a splint to fix a broken bat. Just get another bat, and tape the broken one to the other one, and your good! Now that is good advice!
An older video, but this was such a good breakdown and visual representation that it cleared up the "swing down" misnomer completely for me. Thanks!
I believe he's talking about the first part of his swinging motion, no? I think after the swinging down you naturally obviously have to come up with the swing.
The video on the left looks awkward because he is not firing hips or dropping rear shoulder. If, in that video, he had fired his hips and turned the shoulder, the the move down to the ball would just be part of a swing that turns up.
My opinion: If people all concede to the fact that the ideal bat path is to meet the trajectory of the ball approaching the plate, then “swing down” or “tilt back” or whatever the message is just aimed to create the desired bat path taking into account each hitter’s tendencies.
Thought it was swing down and through the zone, kinda like golf.
Do you think it has the same leverage effect it does for golf too ?
M M of course not
My thought is that he is talking about swing down. By swing down you’re basically trying to hit under the ball and create a backspin even tho he has an uppercut swing also like you mentioned follow through is the most important along with extremely fast reflexes Mike Trout is a beast
Actually when you look closely almost all good hitters drop their hands into the launch position before the forward move. Some start with hands high like trout and some actually have their stance in the launch position. Then the swing from there is fairly level (slightly up). Most people focus on the stance which i believe is superfluous. When they load, the hands usually drop to a position similar to throwing a punch (back hand) then they swing forward.
alright, what i learned from this video:
down
up
did i get that right?
Hey Matt. Could you do an analysis of Justin Upton's swing?
Thanks. Love your vids, keep it up.
Sometimes I swing with my stomach facing the pitcher. I chop down on the ball like hitting "whack a mole." The bat tip starts out above my head and hits the ground hard.
A lot of guys never seem to look at their film and see what they actually do
Big key is the left elbow too. Video on left shows left elbow dropping excessively below chest level. In his real swing he pulls his left arm through and it never goes below his chest. He turns that right palm up as the left elbow pulls through and the bat stays on plane in relation to where the ball is pitched. Not hitting down. He's right where he should be.
Domingo Ayala told me to always have a 65+ degree launch angle so ima do that
When you pull the bat back and behind while striding ahead , swing down and the bat will turn up because of the stretch your body has just created.
If I stay back and swing down when my hips turn it creates the barrel to go from down to up. Is this what is happening on a lot of these guys swings? If I put my weight forward though my swing stays down and becomes a chop motion.
It's kids in a swing set. Start high, hit the valley, come up.
The takeaway from this video is find the best possible model for swing mechanics, not just the hitter du jour, and see what he does with his arms and bat at the start of the forward swing and up to contact. That model is Ken Griffey Jr.
Geometry and physics... swing is an arc similar to a golf swing. Goes down and outwards gets to low point then follows up and inside
Why is this guy talking strictly about the knob of the bat and what the bat does, when that's not what Mike Trout was talking about. If you look at a Sideview of any successful batter, their hands are positioned at around shoulder height or higher. The strike zone is between your belt line and knees. You take your hands (not the bat) down towards the strike zone. The degree of the downward swing doesn't matter. It can be 5°,15° or whatever degree downward to the ball. Again, he's talking about what your hands should be doing. That's what matters the most. The bat happens to be in your hands and does something different during the swing. The weight of barrel will drop down through the zone, and as the batter's torso rotates, the hands and the bat travel up. Yes, you need to have the right bat path during swing, but your hands have to go down toward the pitch. It's a nano second decision to get to strike zone from your original batting stance. Hands, hands, hands.
Thank You, Antonelli! It helped a lot
Hi Matt, I love your vids and channel because you really look at mechanics without being hyper critical and breakdown mechanics in small chunks. When looking at this swing therr is another dimension to the swing that I like to highlight to players and if you can imagine that dimension as a view from over the top of a swing like Trouts and all good hitters. If you imagine the hands traveling through the path as a circle or arc, the arc at he beginning of the swing starts closer to the center of the circle where speed is created. As the hands travel through the full arc of the swing and into extension the arc gets wider and the barrel begins to catch up to our hands. This is the point where barrel speed increases exponentially. The hands close in at the beginning of the swing arc also provides the leverage needed to provide barrel control at the beginning of the swing which requires less strength once the barrel is on plane to control the path to the ball. Just my 2 cents and that thinking in that added dimension and teach a player to think in that dimension can sometimes help understand the mechanics of an elite swing. I see rapid progression in players I teach with the addition of this. Thoughts? Thanks for your hard work to provide quality baseball content.
I would always tell my kids, pull down instead of swing down.
Pull down and pop through.
Love this video! I enjoy the way you explain the swing so logically. Thanks Matt.
Great analysis Matt!
They whole "swing down" theory never made a lick of sense... think about it logically, if you are relying on "back spin" to drive the ball out of the park, you are going against the laws of physics... back spin creates drag effects that will PREVENT the ball from traveling great distances... the thing that drives a ball out of the ballpark is FORCE and VELOCITY...
What a beautiful and detailed explanation Mike :) would love to get privates for my son from you for the year…
But, we are in San Diego :(
Great video. Down to the ball not down through the ball. Basically. It is like most things in baseball it should be agnostic about the things that are best for what works, like bat position, stride, stance. Then there are some absolutely facts like you talked about in terms of bat path. So whatever gets you into that most effectively is what the best coaches like you will coach, not getting obsessed with one style which isnt necessary.
i think what Trout is misidentifying as "swinging down" is his ability to get his body thrust at the level of the baseball for maximum power... its not his bat swinging down, its the trunk of his body getting down to the level of the ball for maximum "torque" at the point of contact
people forgot about the other part of the physics which is you are spinning 270 degrees on an axis that's tilted so of course it will start moving "down" and as you turn it will move UP!
Dont think just make contact
The majority of Baseball players aren’t physicists but coach here has got the right idea😁
I've noticed that every time I see someone who shows that move with the hands on a "swing down" path they never include their lower half and what it should be doing simultaneously. I think if they did they might reconsider or clarify what they are saying.
instead of swing down or swing up ... we say, "swing ARC"
This could easily be done in a 4 or 5 minute video. my son was bored and walked away after 4 minutes. i find this to be the case with your videos. good info, just need to get it said in fewer minutes
what are your thoughts on richard schenck's (Teacherman HItting on RUclips) swinging approach?
it's as simple as what is the barrel doing when you make contact with the ball.. like you always say you want to drive the ball slightly up. why being there are 4 infielders and 3 outfielders plus the benefit of the home run ball. can't hit homers if you're swinging down lol
its all so crazy. you swing down first and then up.
It doesn't matter what he does in the swing
It's the approach that causes the full strength swing to work correctly
You've gotta go down first in order to go up!
I think it's more about bringing your hands STRAIGHT to the ball from the full LOAD. You can't demonstrate that making a slow motion swing.
To simplify what he is saying is that basically you make a Nike swoosh with the bat so you create the perfect swing😃😃😃👍👍👍
Hail State!!
Hail State!!!!!
Separate the cage from the game. Don't be silly. The "game-swing" is influenced by the practice in cage. Everyone's different based on a "game-swing".
Could it be that they're understanding of the swing down comes from pulling on the knob. As oppose to player who think swing down means chopping with their barrel? Both are visually understanding it differently hence the controversy
God damn, I really with I had youtube back when I was in little league.
Do you have a connection to Craig Wallenbrock, the Albert Einstein of hitting instructors? This looks similar to what his disciples discuss, well at least with Robert Van Scoyoc. I was a Punch and Judy hitter and was taught how to authentically hit down on the ball by a Harry Walker disciple, because no matter how brilliantly I tried to mimic Ted Williams, even at the age of 58, Williams still had stronger arms and quicker moving hips than me at 20. I was fined for every fly ball and given bonuses for every grounder and line drive hit for two years. The big difference was that playing in a home park with vast fair territory where a line drive could become a triple, and where speed was needed to play center field made these talents important. Today, even a sloth can play center in almost every bandbox park.
If you're actually swinging down then that's the same as uppercutting but from the other direction, which obviously is wrong. If your bat is on the same plane as the ball then it is impossible not to make some sort of contact. I wonder why more hitters don't swing like Ron Cey?
This reminds me of the "linear" v. rotational" hitting. There's both in the swing porcess.
The ol' short to it long through it. Behind behind the ball = being balanced, minimal head movement, smooth bat lag
Personally dont see the confusion. As u said seen this type of swing from many greats..... your right. Get the barrel of the bat down. Ahead of the ball so u can swing up lift, drive it. With all that said i would love to see ichiro swing.. few homers singles master. I would bet he almost always somehow swung down on the ball...
He feels his hands go down, which they do, but that causes the barrel to swing around and through the ball.
I was always told to swing down and finish high. Worked well.
Right.
Maybe these guys practice swinging down to clean up their bat path and then when they face the pitcher in the game they swing up without out realizing it lol
You should always aim for popups at all times.
Yes obviously
Beat the ball into the ground and hope the best player on the team(SS) makes an error.
The more popups the more flyouts
Swing straight through and try to very slightly get under it always aim for liners in the gap or grounders between SS and 3rd
As a little league coach years ago I taught my kids to swing level through th zone. Naturally the beginning of the swing will be down and the up. The important thing to know is that with a level swing through the entire zone over the plate will increase your chances of hitting the ball.
In the A-Rod video, the ball location on the tee is quite low, which creates a lower hand path than on a high pitch. Secondly, Trout demonstrates the old school mechanics of throwing your hands inside the path of the ball. He barely shows any shoulder or hip rotation compared to what he does in real life. What he demonstrates isolates the hands and gives a false impression of what he’s probably intending to convey. Maybe you could do a tutorial explaining why we should not teach “throwing” our hands to the ball, regardless of pitch height.
What you described isn't old-school at all, it's the opposite actually. You can watch any game of baseball up until even the 90s and you'll see players just throwing their hands at the ball.
6:48 because they're smart and want to keep their job 👍
I never played baseball, but I played tennis and I'd bet I'd be really good at baseball.
honestly though fuck it let him swing down. everyone cant be elite swinging the same way someone else does
Yes swing down. Trust me that’s how I swing and I almost get a hit every time I hit. It really works. Just try it
Honestly whenever I swing up I hit so bad
Did u watch the video? the whole point is that it’s more complex than that
Grant Hunter same I always strike out
When u swing down I drive the ball into the ground and get out
You must be 13
I have success by saying swing up but turn the barrel at the beginning
It's swing down the up motion is the follow through, not part of the actual swing
Mike and Arod be Full of it.
Matt, can you graph out the next hurricane modules, please?
Would mlbpa agreement on a short season but expanded rosters enable marginal mlb milb players to earn a prorated mlb minimum salary for that short season . Are 30+ veteran free agents going to have a market value as they've had if there is no games this season.
Im gonna tell anyone whos ever confused about batpath, if they should swing up or down. ill tell them you do both.
Great video!