I completely agree, and is exactly how i hit my forehands. Probably because of my cricket background throwing side arm and thousand of hours throwing stones at stuff as a kid lol. Even at 53 power isnt my problem at all, its getting the required spin particularly if im within the baseline. Beyond the baseline i can pretty much go all out just fine. For some reason i find if i increase the angle to the ball, come from lower then they more often than not fly super long. For those i feel like i have to hit inside out and around the outside of the ball. And in either example i never finish over the shoulder as many teach. Its more shoulder level.
I like the idea of throwing on the forehand. One drill for the serve is to throw a racquet over the fence. That drill works well. For the forehand, I think it similarly applies. Video mentions we are not throwing the racquet over the net. That is true...Maybe it can be viewed as throwing the racquet towards the side fence. 🤔
I tried it this morning and found it helpful. For slow learners like me who have little idea what their bodies are doing, a clear and simple mental image to focus on is ideal.
I think you're the best on youtube. There are others very good as well but it is your delivery which sets you apart. Guessing you have a pretty good sense of humor.
This is such an incredibly important, nuanced point which I have never seen articulated anywhere much less in such a clear manner. Outstanding. And the concept here applies to any point of the kinetic chain (or Tomas' preference of coordination chain--which is a better term) of any other stroke (serve etc.).
There was always something tight in my match forehand that doesn’t show in loose practice - your description of pulling and “holding on to that body part” 100% captures this over controlled feeling. Throwing is a riskier action and requires more confidence to execute - pulling is safer. This may be a game changer for next match - super thanks for describing the “pulled forehand”
Tom, you really get it. One thing for me is that for the throw to work as a throw I need to keep my hands quiet. If I try to initiate the throw with the hands it ends up being like a pull and whereas the throw sends my weight forwards the pull seems to send my weight backwards. I guess it’s that the pull excessively externally rotates the shoulder (too much supination of the arm). I spent a lot of time working on this. I only really understood the chain when I tried to hit the ball by rotating, allowing the arm to swing round passively. This gave me a ton of power but no control and could only feasibly work if I was in exactly the right position. Take me out wide and I’m spinning like a graceless ballerina into the side fence. To get control i had to add a conscious throw of the arm as I rotated my body into the shot. There’s so much advice out there breaking the swing down into pieces and this is partly why it’s taken me so long to figure out the correct way to hit the ball. You’re spot on that you need to allow the body to flow. Flow and throw. Simple, but definitely not easy! Thanks Tom.
i am that 99% you referred to: learned my stroke in pieces, pulled my racket, had no rhythm and could not figure out why i lacked racket head speed. now i know. thanks
I swear this is the ultimate and top FH advice. ✊🏿👌🏿👍😊So many years I was struggling with my FH because so many RUclips gurus have been selling pulling it as the modern ATP sort of FH 🥴
Hi Tom, I am new to tennis started about 9 months ago. Been watching a lot of coaching RUclips videos. I think you may be the best. Your explanation is so clear, easy to understand and make sense. Thanks 👍
Tell me more. I’m a former Top Tenner who has studied the game intensely. The complexity of every shot astounds me and in my mind the sequencing of firing and releasing is so complicated and varied as to require more specific terminology. I am very open, so love to hear more. Hope you are welll
Hello, thanks for the message. I hope it's the real TM... The shots can be complex and complicated but I try to simplify them the best I can. The coordination chain isn't isolated to tennis, so the more I can get people to associate the movements with those of other activities the easier it is for them to understand. additionally... I would say the mechanics of a modern forehand or backhand have evolved from a swing to a throw. Would love to talk more, I have some questions for you.
@@TomAllsoppYou’re tips are great! I wish RUclips was around in the 1980’s. I needed a great free coach. Do you think this is the real “Gentleman Tim”?
What a fantastic video - this is exactly what I don't do - especially when tense. As well as not getting no power, you lose control if you are too rigid and push the ball, with little spin. Will focus on the throwing action from now on. Sure it will translate into better body position, smooth the stoke improve everything
brilliant illustration of the difference between pulling and throwing. most people know they are not supposed to push, but it is harder to see what is wrong with pulling. I think this lesson would work the same for the serve and overhead also
I've been playing tennis for 40 years and in those 40 years I've changed their grips and movements and everything, but a long time ago I realized that a good hit is when you feel that the racket moves by itself from the free shoulder. and this movement can be made as effective as possible with a relaxed hand and wrist. But the grip must be very tight at the moment of contact with a ball and the racket head at the right angle. For me it's semi western grip
Tom, I wasn't planning on playing today but a friend invited me to hit so I thought "let's try out Tom's advice today" Holy shit Almost every single one of my forehands was hitting the back fence after the first bounce I NEVER hit that hard. Some of them were just barelyyy going long but I think I'm just not used to putting this much pace on the ball. This advice made such a huge difference!! Thank you so much for this, I used to think it was a pulling motion but now I'm going to send everyone your way to watch this video, this has been an absolute game changer!!
Similar to a golf swing...I used to try and pull down on a chain...couldn't muster any real power. I switched to a throwing motion and the accuracy is better as well as 30-40 yards more distance.
Interestingly I use resistance bands to strengthen my arm shoulder muscles as I try imitate the kinetic chain in the gym. It feels more like a pulling motion during the reps with the bands. However, during an actual stroke I lead with the lower body with a relaxed arm as a try to generate power.
Great instruction. This throwing ths racquet head at the ball/releasing/side arm skipping stone concept has really helped me. I was trying to do the Macci pat the dog and pulling and could never get it to feel right. This throwing really is helpful. I as trying to throw the racquet head now on the serve and I think that is helping me also. This throwing the racquet head at the ball may be the one most important constant thing to constantly seek to implement when playing tennis.
I can pinpoint the exact moment I decided to "throw" rather than pull. It was in a match recently. My opponent said I had "found my forehand". It takes confidence.
This is what effortless power all about and you need a good timing. Wonder whether there will be any adjustment for the backhand because you are throwing backward, maybe next video. 😀
Thank you. Been having trouble particularly with high balls. Was just thinking of how I could email Djokovic and ask him if he feels like he is pulling or throwing and looks like you've answered it. 😊 And also become a victim of over thinking my technique. My main focus always ends up coming back to what feels good. Im not so interested in hitting amazing shots if I feel no connection to the shot. Even if I could get consistent I don't think there would be the satisfaction I get from loading up and feeling fully engaged in hitting a heavy accurate shot
The pull look motion is the end product of the throwing motion from the weight transfer, right from the feet then hip. When the hip rotates, the objective is to throw but because u take back the racket, so it makes a pull motion.
Great topic, Tom. After the lag as the racquet is moving towards contact, what should I feel with the wrist? Should the lag continue through contact with the ball? As I throw my arm toward contact, does the wrist remain loose or should I use my wrist and forearm to add more speed to the racquet? How should I think about the swing path of the racquet and follow-through? Thank you very much.
I re-watched this video and it really is great about the fluidity of any stroke. Trying to lag the racket artificially has been my downfall. As Tom said the lag should just happen if the kinetic chain is correct. The whole show the but cap flashlight thing is rubbish.
That’s Tom . One question I always wanted to ask : when the racquet made contact with the ball , is the probation process just over or in the middle or starting ? This is for forehand . Thanks
@@TomAllsopp thanks Tom . I feel I can get maximum force right after pronation ends . If we need to strike the ball when pronation barely starts , Would that be not optimal?
Hello ! When we accelerate the racket ! With 10 cm before contact? What exercise to do to improove this movement? What tension you recomand ? You breathe when you hit? Tx. Sorin 😊
Doesn't the pulling motion naturally produce the straight arm forehand as you also displayed at the end , I think of courelse if you pull for too long and don't block your hips with the left hand you miss the timing , on the other hand if you don't pull enough the centrifugal force doesn't straighten your arm and you end up with an easier to time but in my opinion a weaker bent arm motion
I think the big difference is the rhythm because the racquet is more like a stick or club than a ball, so it depends on what ends up in the student’s head (lol). Nevertheless, I get what you’re saying.
I think you need to be able to hit tighter and more loosely when the appropriate shot is needed as you say. It’s also not reasonable to expect to stay loose all the time throughout a match. Tightening up is part of the mental game. You can tell yourself to play more relaxed when you’re losing or when the momentum has changed but more often it will make things worse. I think you need to learn to play consistent tennis with tightness to win points and regain confidence & momentum to allow you to hit more loosely again.
Once you start mimicking all the instructions of RUclips lessons, the consequence is a tigh "pulling" forehand. It's so many instructions to follow... Throwing the racquet helps simplifying your thoughts and channel the energy the right way... Yes, my English is broken!
I think it's more than an image. The mechanics and especially the coordination are very similar to a throw, depending on the type of forehand you have. I think the old school is more of a swing than a throw - swinging the racket is what most players should be thinking about probably.
Tim Mayotte you're a LEGEND Did you play with a Prince Woodie ? I grew up in NorCal. I feel this is a great and accurate description of the kinetic chain. But as a coach, I agree to not breaking it down into pieces..I didnt learn to throw a football 60 yds from Vic Braden, Macci, or Nick...I learned by watching Montana..So thanks Joe for my 120 mph serve.. Let's teach tennis more like Tai Chi..FLUIDITY !
I will question top teachers like yourself to see their opinion, what are the first and second bodyparts that you focus on when the ball bounces typical rally forehand shot ?
Yep, you are totally attacking the heart of the matter - not just the forehand but the whole shebang of tennis shots: rhythm, fluidity of movement and hitting/strokes. So difficult to master on and even off the court, but that’s always been the goal, for me. IMO Focusing too much on a “pull” can lead you away from that goal, quickly.
I think throwing the racquet is an advanced technique best reserved for 4.5 and above. Most rec players will never be able to get that kind of whipping effect timing down to have any kind of consistency. The French Coach patrick something or another also talks about "throwing" and Ian at Essential Tennis says that this technique is way beyond the skill of 95% of players because 95% of players are 3.0-3.5. Achieving that kind of precise timing and coordination requires hours and and hours of practice with a skilled coach and hours and hours on the courts. 95% of players don't have that kind of time. Most rec players will do just fine with the 1970's style forehand or maybe a modern WTA FH. The throw is for anyone trying to get from 4.5 and up
You can throw a ball like a pitcher or throw with a basic motion. Just because it’s the action of a throw doesn’t mean it has to be very advanced. It’s maybe not for beginners, but neither is the pull.
@@TomAllsopp i guess you'd have to watch the essential tennis channel or total tennis domination or top tennis training ... none of them talk about the advanced concept of throwing because it's way beyond the skill of 95% of players. Only patrick french coach talks about it, but he is working with 5.0 and above high level players who have hours to spend every day to train at the elite level
@@TomAllsopp BTW I think it's fine to talk about throwing the racquet if you're addressing 5.0 and above players who have the skill sets to master such a complex motion, but throwing is too difficult for 95% of players to gain any kind of proficiency with
For me the most difficult part is when to actually trigger the "throwing" movement. I mean I find it difficult to do this when I find myself moving around the court and I have to trigger the kinetic chain at a certain moment to meet the ball at a very specific place (kinetc chain + timing). Release the racket a little bit late and it will be wide, release it to soon and it will end in the net since the racket head will be to closed when it meets the ball... A real pain for me 😔
These debates get very messy with words like "pulling" that are actually very poorly defined... I prefer to think of these issues by asking myself the question: "Is this tip a useful mental model that gets me the kind of swing I am looking for?" In this case I think Tom has it right - for me, pulling implies various groups of muscles tensing up at the same time and working together. Throwing, for me, is more about successive muscle groups engaging to propagate energy into the object... which I reckon is more of what we're looking for in a forehand, or most tennis strokes. I actually like the way the pros over at Star Tennis Academy pose these questions to high level players... they don't ask "what are you doing on the stroke?". Instead, they ask, "What are you thinking about when performing the stroke?". Every person is going to interpret any given phrase/tip slightly differently. Tennis is hard!
Well said. I like this idea of what is your mental model and is it useful. I do think picturing myself throwing the forehand is more helpful than picturing a pull.
Totally wrong. Pulling you are not engaging muscles at all. The body is pulling the arm which first lags and then slings forward. All is released because it's a sling shot effect after the stretch. I used to think throwing was better. Now I'm convinced pulling is better and more effortless easier power because it's not your arm or shoulder muscles starting the swing. The arm and shoulder are relaxed and the body pulling the arm and slinging it forward
@@TomAllsopp haha no. The most natural thing especially if you have heavy rackets like pros do. It's very hard to tell the difference because arm shoulder joint is already fully back on unit turn and is just different muscles initiating the swing which you can't tell by looking. Very subtle difference. But I get more racket head speed and effortless power from pull than throw. But one is not right and wrong. There is a place for both. It's just wrong to say you have more tension or hold on long with pull. When pulling the arm in more like a dead weight along for the ride.
Good presentation, but it's dangerous for recreational players (practice time). The foundation for exceptional tennis technique combines relaxation and competent motor programming. Elite tennis professionals develop stroke production through many years of varied and highly structured technique development.
What ya think?
I completely agree, and is exactly how i hit my forehands. Probably because of my cricket background throwing side arm and thousand of hours throwing stones at stuff as a kid lol.
Even at 53 power isnt my problem at all, its getting the required spin particularly if im within the baseline. Beyond the baseline i can pretty much go all out just fine.
For some reason i find if i increase the angle to the ball, come from lower then they more often than not fly super long. For those i feel like i have to hit inside out and around the outside of the ball.
And in either example i never finish over the shoulder as many teach. Its more shoulder level.
I like the idea of throwing on the forehand. One drill for the serve is to throw a racquet over the fence. That drill works well. For the forehand, I think it similarly applies. Video mentions we are not throwing the racquet over the net. That is true...Maybe it can be viewed as throwing the racquet towards the side fence. 🤔
I tried it this morning and found it helpful. For slow learners like me who have little idea what their bodies are doing, a clear and simple mental image to focus on is ideal.
U wot?
100% agree.
I think you're the best on youtube. There are others very good as well but it is your delivery which sets you apart. Guessing you have a pretty good sense of humor.
This is such an incredibly important, nuanced point which I have never seen articulated anywhere much less in such a clear manner. Outstanding. And the concept here applies to any point of the kinetic chain (or Tomas' preference of coordination chain--which is a better term) of any other stroke (serve etc.).
There was always something tight in my match forehand that doesn’t show in loose practice - your description of pulling and “holding on to that body part” 100% captures this over controlled feeling. Throwing is a riskier action and requires more confidence to execute - pulling is safer. This may be a game changer for next match - super thanks for describing the “pulled forehand”
Tom, you really get it. One thing for me is that for the throw to work as a throw I need to keep my hands quiet. If I try to initiate the throw with the hands it ends up being like a pull and whereas the throw sends my weight forwards the pull seems to send my weight backwards. I guess it’s that the pull excessively externally rotates the shoulder (too much supination of the arm).
I spent a lot of time working on this. I only really understood the chain when I tried to hit the ball by rotating, allowing the arm to swing round passively. This gave me a ton of power but no control and could only feasibly work if I was in exactly the right position. Take me out wide and I’m spinning like a graceless ballerina into the side fence.
To get control i had to add a conscious throw of the arm as I rotated my body into the shot.
There’s so much advice out there breaking the swing down into pieces and this is partly why it’s taken me so long to figure out the correct way to hit the ball. You’re spot on that you need to allow the body to flow. Flow and throw. Simple, but definitely not easy! Thanks Tom.
Tom, you’re a fantastic, highly effective, coach for too many reasons to list. Thank you.
Thank you. Don’t be afraid to list them haha. Joking
Tom's sarcasm always gets me lol very good coach and he has a future in standup comedy too if this whole tennis thing doesn't work out
i am that 99% you referred to: learned my stroke in pieces, pulled my racket, had no rhythm and could not figure out why i lacked racket head speed. now i know. thanks
I swear this is the ultimate and top FH advice. ✊🏿👌🏿👍😊So many years I was struggling with my FH because so many RUclips gurus have been selling pulling it as the modern ATP sort of FH 🥴
You should probably sue them
Hi Tom, I am new to tennis started about 9 months ago. Been watching a lot of coaching RUclips videos. I think you may be the best. Your explanation is so clear, easy to understand and make sense. Thanks 👍
Tell me more. I’m a former Top Tenner who has studied the game intensely.
The complexity of every shot astounds me and in my mind the sequencing of firing and releasing is so complicated and varied as to require more specific terminology.
I am very open, so love to hear more. Hope you are welll
Hello, thanks for the message. I hope it's the real TM... The shots can be complex and complicated but I try to simplify them the best I can. The coordination chain isn't isolated to tennis, so the more I can get people to associate the movements with those of other activities the easier it is for them to understand.
additionally... I would say the mechanics of a modern forehand or backhand have evolved from a swing to a throw. Would love to talk more, I have some questions for you.
@@TomAllsoppYou’re tips are great! I wish RUclips was around in the 1980’s. I needed a great free coach. Do you think this is the real “Gentleman Tim”?
Hi Tom,
"you need stop the previous link in the chain to fire the next one"
this is the best advice I ever heard !!!!
Thanks a lot Tom!!!👍🏻
Brilliant video! Explains why the best players look so effortless
What a fantastic video - this is exactly what I don't do - especially when tense. As well as not getting no power, you lose control if you are too rigid and push the ball, with little spin. Will focus on the throwing action from now on. Sure it will translate into better body position, smooth the stoke improve everything
brilliant illustration of the difference between pulling and throwing. most people know they are not supposed to push, but it is harder to see what is wrong with pulling. I think this lesson would work the same for the serve and overhead also
So practical and clear detailed explanation thank you
I've been playing tennis for 40 years and in those 40 years I've changed their grips and movements and everything, but a long time ago I realized that a good hit is when you feel that the racket moves by itself from the free shoulder. and this movement can be made as effective as possible with a relaxed hand and wrist. But the grip must be very tight at the moment of contact with a ball and the racket head at the right angle. For me it's semi western grip
Tom, I wasn't planning on playing today but a friend invited me to hit so I thought "let's try out Tom's advice today"
Holy shit
Almost every single one of my forehands was hitting the back fence after the first bounce
I NEVER hit that hard. Some of them were just barelyyy going long but I think I'm just not used to putting this much pace on the ball.
This advice made such a huge difference!! Thank you so much for this, I used to think it was a pulling motion but now I'm going to send everyone your way to watch this video, this has been an absolute game changer!!
never thought of it as a throw before your explanations. Good stuff!
Similar to a golf swing...I used to try and pull down on a chain...couldn't muster any real power. I switched to a throwing motion and the accuracy is better as well as 30-40 yards more distance.
I hear ya. Same for me. If you delay the throw, accelerate and lag, it looks like pulling but I’m not buying that it’s a pull.
Interestingly I use resistance bands to strengthen my arm shoulder muscles as I try imitate the kinetic chain in the gym. It feels more like a pulling motion during the reps with the bands. However, during an actual stroke I lead with the lower body with a relaxed arm as a try to generate power.
Great instruction. This throwing ths racquet head at the ball/releasing/side arm skipping stone concept has really helped me. I was trying to do the Macci pat the dog and pulling and could never get it to feel right. This throwing really is helpful. I as trying to throw the racquet head now on the serve and I think that is helping me also. This throwing the racquet head at the ball may be the one most important constant thing to constantly seek to implement when playing tennis.
Tom - so helpful and so accurately communicated. We’ll done, thx!!
I can pinpoint the exact moment I decided to "throw" rather than pull. It was in a match recently. My opponent said I had "found my forehand". It takes confidence.
Sure, 4 years and $8,000.00 in lessons later..
Excellent. I've been teaching pull
Appreciate that!
i agree 100% after experimentng with my swing many times
this is a great mental hack, thank you
This is what effortless power all about and you need a good timing. Wonder whether there will be any adjustment for the backhand because you are throwing backward, maybe next video. 😀
Your so right
Thank you very much coach. This will help lots of players. Have a wonderful day.🌞🌎🌙🙏
Thank you. Been having trouble particularly with high balls. Was just thinking of how I could email Djokovic and ask him if he feels like he is pulling or throwing and looks like you've answered it. 😊
And also become a victim of over thinking my technique. My main focus always ends up coming back to what feels good. Im not so interested in hitting amazing shots if I feel no connection to the shot. Even if I could get consistent I don't think there would be the satisfaction I get from loading up and feeling fully engaged in hitting a heavy accurate shot
you are always the best
The pull look motion is the end product of the throwing motion from the weight transfer, right from the feet then hip. When the hip rotates, the objective is to throw but because u take back the racket, so it makes a pull motion.
Great topic, Tom. After the lag as the racquet is moving towards contact, what should I feel with the wrist? Should the lag continue through contact with the ball? As I throw my arm toward contact, does the wrist remain loose or should I use my wrist and forearm to add more speed to the racquet? How should I think about the swing path of the racquet and follow-through? Thank you very much.
The lag will release through contact
You’re the man.
Do you do the same thing on a one handed backhand? Great video! Well done!
Great points. It’s made me understand exactly why my forehand is so good.
Tom's brother ?
Great explanation
I re-watched this video and it really is great about the fluidity of any stroke. Trying to lag the racket artificially has been my downfall. As Tom said the lag should just happen if the kinetic chain is correct. The whole show the but cap flashlight thing is rubbish.
Great commentary
Many thanks.
Smooth move.
That’s Tom . One question I always wanted to ask : when the racquet made contact with the ball , is the probation process just over or in the middle or starting ? This is for forehand . Thanks
barely getting started
@@TomAllsopp thanks Tom . I feel I can get maximum force right after pronation ends . If we need to strike the ball when pronation barely starts , Would that be not optimal?
@@1huishiafter pronation ends it’s your getting into the ready position for the next shot. Pronation goes all the way to the end of the follow through
Spot ON... rebuilt my forehand to a better one doing that. Thanks.
great video!
Hello ! When we accelerate the racket ! With 10 cm before contact? What exercise to do to improove this movement? What tension you recomand ? You breathe when you hit? Tx. Sorin 😊
Doesn't the pulling motion naturally produce the straight arm forehand as you also displayed at the end , I think of courelse if you pull for too long and don't block your hips with the left hand you miss the timing , on the other hand if you don't pull enough the centrifugal force doesn't straighten your arm and you end up with an easier to time but in my opinion a weaker bent arm motion
IMO the throw is more likely to straighten the arm.
Various techniques
I think the big difference is the rhythm because the racquet is more like a stick or club than a ball, so it depends on what ends up in the student’s head (lol). Nevertheless, I get what you’re saying.
Well Said.
personally I use both depending on the energy of the moment and the opponent
That’s fair
I think you need to be able to hit tighter and more loosely when the appropriate shot is needed as you say. It’s also not reasonable to expect to stay loose all the time throughout a match. Tightening up is part of the mental game. You can tell yourself to play more relaxed when you’re losing or when the momentum has changed but more often it will make things worse. I think you need to learn to play consistent tennis with tightness to win points and regain confidence & momentum to allow you to hit more loosely again.
Once you start mimicking all the instructions of RUclips lessons, the consequence is a tigh "pulling" forehand. It's so many instructions to follow... Throwing the racquet helps simplifying your thoughts and channel the energy the right way... Yes, my English is broken!
Makes sense to me. Thanks for your comment
You almost made it through another excellent lesson without saying the G word at 5:43.
Next time! Haha
Not sure what either means. "Pulling," "Throwing," seems subjective to me, but I guess the image helps some folks
I think it's more than an image. The mechanics and especially the coordination are very similar to a throw, depending on the type of forehand you have. I think the old school is more of a swing than a throw - swinging the racket is what most players should be thinking about probably.
Tim Mayotte you're a LEGEND Did you play with a Prince Woodie ? I grew up in NorCal. I feel this is a great and accurate description of the kinetic chain. But as a coach, I agree to not breaking it down into pieces..I didnt learn to throw a football 60 yds from Vic Braden, Macci, or Nick...I learned by watching Montana..So thanks Joe for my 120 mph serve.. Let's teach tennis more like Tai Chi..FLUIDITY !
Most of my videos are to help people develop fluid strokes with natural coordinated movements. Unlike the macci next gen forehand.
Would a semi-western grip makes the throwing a little tricky?
No. Easier than any other grip.
I will question top teachers like yourself to see their opinion, what are the first and second bodyparts that you focus on when the ball bounces typical rally forehand shot ?
Hmm… feet and shoulders
Yep, you are totally attacking the heart of the matter - not just the forehand but the whole shebang of tennis shots: rhythm, fluidity of movement and hitting/strokes. So difficult to master on and even off the court, but that’s always been the goal, for me.
IMO Focusing too much on a “pull” can lead you away from that goal, quickly.
I think throwing the racquet is an advanced technique best reserved for 4.5 and above. Most rec players will never be able to get that kind of whipping effect timing down to have any kind of consistency. The French Coach patrick something or another also talks about "throwing" and Ian at Essential Tennis says that this technique is way beyond the skill of 95% of players because 95% of players are 3.0-3.5. Achieving that kind of precise timing and coordination requires hours and and hours of practice with a skilled coach and hours and hours on the courts. 95% of players don't have that kind of time. Most rec players will do just fine with the 1970's style forehand or maybe a modern WTA FH. The throw is for anyone trying to get from 4.5 and up
You can throw a ball like a pitcher or throw with a basic motion. Just because it’s the action of a throw doesn’t mean it has to be very advanced. It’s maybe not for beginners, but neither is the pull.
@@TomAllsoppthe pull by leading with the torso is probably easier to teach / learn and attain timing and consistency than a throw.
@gcs7817 why would you want to learn to pull? Learn to swing the racket if you’re looking for simple.
@@TomAllsopp i guess you'd have to watch the essential tennis channel or total tennis domination or top tennis training ... none of them talk about the advanced concept of throwing because it's way beyond the skill of 95% of players. Only patrick french coach talks about it, but he is working with 5.0 and above high level players who have hours to spend every day to train at the elite level
@@TomAllsopp BTW I think it's fine to talk about throwing the racquet if you're addressing 5.0 and above players who have the skill sets to master such a complex motion, but throwing is too difficult for 95% of players to gain any kind of proficiency with
For me the most difficult part is when to actually trigger the "throwing" movement. I mean I find it difficult to do this when I find myself moving around the court and I have to trigger the kinetic chain at a certain moment to meet the ball at a very specific place (kinetc chain + timing). Release the racket a little bit late and it will be wide, release it to soon and it will end in the net since the racket head will be to closed when it meets the ball... A real pain for me 😔
yes, you can't be any better at sending the ball than you are at receiving it
Tom, there’s another option even worse than pulling the racket : pushing it.😀
This is true
These debates get very messy with words like "pulling" that are actually very poorly defined... I prefer to think of these issues by asking myself the question: "Is this tip a useful mental model that gets me the kind of swing I am looking for?" In this case I think Tom has it right - for me, pulling implies various groups of muscles tensing up at the same time and working together. Throwing, for me, is more about successive muscle groups engaging to propagate energy into the object... which I reckon is more of what we're looking for in a forehand, or most tennis strokes.
I actually like the way the pros over at Star Tennis Academy pose these questions to high level players... they don't ask "what are you doing on the stroke?". Instead, they ask, "What are you thinking about when performing the stroke?". Every person is going to interpret any given phrase/tip slightly differently. Tennis is hard!
Well said. I like this idea of what is your mental model and is it useful. I do think picturing myself throwing the forehand is more helpful than picturing a pull.
Nice color socks ....
Smooth is good for 60% but when you apply power everything breaks down
For me or you? What’s the solution?
No need to separate the pull and throw
Yes there is
@@TomAllsopp pull/throw is one continuous motion, doesn’t make sense to break and separate them.
@georgelaw8978 it does
like
me: both pulling and throwing :|
Totally wrong. Pulling you are not engaging muscles at all. The body is pulling the arm which first lags and then slings forward. All is released because it's a sling shot effect after the stretch. I used to think throwing was better. Now I'm convinced pulling is better and more effortless easier power because it's not your arm or shoulder muscles starting the swing. The arm and shoulder are relaxed and the body pulling the arm and slinging it forward
@@rosshayden1416 cool story. Not what I’m seeing when people try to execute it.
@@TomAllsopp because people are trying to pull the racket instead of their body pulling their arm
@rosshayden1416 sounds complicated
@@TomAllsopp haha no. The most natural thing especially if you have heavy rackets like pros do. It's very hard to tell the difference because arm shoulder joint is already fully back on unit turn and is just different muscles initiating the swing which you can't tell by looking. Very subtle difference. But I get more racket head speed and effortless power from pull than throw. But one is not right and wrong. There is a place for both. It's just wrong to say you have more tension or hold on long with pull. When pulling the arm in more like a dead weight along for the ride.
@rosshayden1416 do you have any videos of you doing this?
If only everyone knew how to throw😂
They do. Just some waaaaay better than others
Good presentation, but it's dangerous for recreational players (practice time). The foundation for exceptional tennis technique combines relaxation and competent motor programming. Elite tennis professionals develop stroke production through many years of varied and highly structured technique development.
why is it dangerous?
Best,