Hi Zack . great video . you have opened a can of worms here. A great follow up would be to hook up the coil to a helium leak tester in vacuum mode (not sniff mode). something that can leak test down to say 1 x10-12mbar/l/sec like a leybold phoenix l300 . Then introduce helium to the know leak point . it could be that its leaking under pressure but sealing up under vacuum . we sometime see this depending on the shape of the leak point.
I think this is a great video. Kudos to you for setting it all up to prove a point in an important aspect of our trade. It also further supports the things we have come to learn, i.e., that sometimes you can't always prove a leak with a vacuum that you can with pressure, and that sometimes you need higher pressures to finally expose a leak (perfect example is with flare joints).
Great test! Absolutely stunned by your findings, definitely not what I anticipated! This is absolutely huge and extremely concerning to me! Leaves too many questions for me as to how much time for decay test is needed and what is acceptable rate of decay?! This just blows my mind! Great vid bro!
Great video! I work in the refrigeration manufacturing industry and vacuum and pressure decay are both considered gross leak tests We do helium or refrigerant sniffing for fine leaks.
Thank you Zack for this video and test. I really appreciate exposing this issue in our trade. I found this a constant issue in my 28 years in the field when it comes to small leaks . I think it is a headache that we cannot eliminate for now with existing technology .Only techs that are not honest or do not have the skill or have not been in the trade for long enough would deny the existence of this "evil". Most of us, due to financial and time restrictions would vacuum a system to a satisfactory level , do a vacuum test and move to another job. The most of the time unaffordable solution is nitrogen pressure testing the system for prolonged periods of time like someone else mentioned here or following up with a leak check with a good leak detector. I hope other guys post some other solutions.
Re install that customers coils it has passed all tool tests. 😂😂😂😂. Only psi test I was taught was 24 hours 250-300 Psig. We can do this in refrigeration. I see where that would require some good dialogue with the customer for residential AC. No cooling for 24 hours is a hard thing do. Puts AC techs in a pickle. Can you do 300 psi for 24 hours and leave a gauge on and see it drops. Also u have great coil to test leak detectors 👍👍
I can't imagine what more on 410A which is much more difficult to find leak. I can hear it hissing but when I look at the pressure gauge can't even see it. The worst thing to do on POE oil is pulling a vacuum when there is a leak and suck all moisture inside. Maybe you should try cooling or heating the evaporator to make metal contract and expand also to simulate working condition.
If the app was tweaked to ignore time and red flag a constant rise in decay, that might be a good improvement. I know of issues with larger systems, especially VRF/VRV, that pass these type of tests, but continually over time lose charge. And with long line sets, branch selector boxes and fan coils, there are a lot of places to check for leaks. I’ve got the ultrasonic leak detector to help with these tiny leaks, the only caveat is you have to turn off the unit you are checking, or you get electronic noise from the boards in these systems. This was a very good demonstration, you hit the nail on the head with this one.
Great job Zach! I would think most hvac techs like myself only have a regular micron gauge and have to go off of a decay test without an app. So in a situation like this we'd be screwed, scary to think about. I guess must of the time we're just lucky. My company wouldn't buy me the BluVac Pro even if i gave a convincing cost saving argument. Keep up the awesome informative videos! Viva la hvac revolution!!!
Awesome content! I'm glad you were able to show the flaws in these instruments. With tests like this the industry and manufacturers will make us all better techs.
Mark, there is no flaw in the instrument, it was not used correctly to determine if the system had a leak or simply decay due to moisture in the system. accutools.com/identifying-true-leaks-in-a-vacuum
I think there's a flaw it's just not in the instrument. The flaw is in our understanding or I should say our thought process in residential leaks and vacuums. We need to have greater discussion on what a vacuum is and its purpose and what the decay test actually proves vs what we think it does ( techs in the field) etc. I'm glad you stuck with it Zack, great video series
@@amattar02 The "flaw was how the instrument was used. There are a decay test and a leak test in the software. Decay will continue over time as moisture breaks away from the walls of the piping. Decay will slow as the vapor pressure reaches equilibrium to a reasonably undetectable rate. A leak will show a constant rate of rise.
@@zacksintheshop Its, not the line, it is the mode of the app. In a decay test, the graph is logarithmic, in leak test it is linear showing a much smaller portion of the graph.
That is why I love the H10 When it says it has a leak I do a big blue spray test with high PSI on the coil. Would be nice to put on a box of water like the old days of looking for leaks in a tire. Great video by the way. Hope family and all doing well.
To me, the 10 minute rule has been dis-proven in your experiment. But, it's a trade off. Do I sit around all day or be reasonable and considering the age of the coil, etc? Great demo!
Zack, would like to see this done again with the bluvac pro micron gage. That would be fair to bluvac and MQ. I think. Nice test by the way. Thinking you have a sheet rub thur leak, find it and expose it for all to see. Very educational.
That’s just great; spend all this money on tools and you still can prove its a tight system! Stick with a 24hr pressure test I reckon thanks for the heads up
So how long below 500 microns? Or is it not go above 500 microns. I have had decays stay below 500 microns for 12 hours. Is this a leak or other things going on? Help!
On up to 5 ton splits with scroll R410a, When I use deep vac for leak testing, I would pull down to below 200, and isolate and wait up to 24 hours to determine the final level offed vac. If over 1000, pull down again and repeat till the rise level is around 500 leveled off at 24 hr because the moisture can blur the tiny leaks. If the rise never ends and is above 1micron per minute average seemly forever, there is a tiny leak. I only use vac for leak search if I have lots of days. I use the BluVAC Pro gauge. I find it better to use nitrogen at system rated test pressures found on the name plates and locate with bubbles/ ultra sonic. I have had systems with micro leaks that don’t leak under Vacuum but do when under pressure. For running systems that need annual addition of refrigerant, a combination of ultra sonic, H10 and the newer FP IR probe and bubbles Is what I have success with. There is not one tool of method, each system and its condition and situation is different.
Thats how id like to do my evacuations aswell but when youre working for someone else and its quoted for a 1 day repair thats when it gets dicey and you can only do what you can do
Why would any technician think that a vacuum leak check which is equal to a 15 psi pressure test is worth anything I just don’t get it can someone enlighten me.
What was the leak rate for the coil ? lb/year. You know that you can't make a system that is 100% tight. Even the best solderings, do leak at 0,0000 level. How did you find the leak in the first place.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. I don’t think any system is 100% leak proof. We’ve got minis with flare joints that almost never seal despite every attempt to make them tight. Testing systems overnight is not very realistic. Not many techs or companies are going to go to that length. I think we will find that all systems lose a small amount despite best practices.
Good video. But in reality companies and technicians are not going to put an evap coil under water unless absolutetly necassary. And that will be rare. It would take to much time. In warranty claims, manufactures may do this. I just don't know how often they do it.
I bought the Bluevac with the thought to increase the quality of my jobs. So far, I have been using it a bit over that a year as a test... my conclusion is that you can NOT use it in the automotive industry. I tested it on tents of compressors and the always leak under vacuum. You can bring them down to 1100-1220 microns but not more than that (York compressor). They leak for the shaft seal. The thing is that they won’t leak under pressure because of the seal design.
Or is it that the systems you are pulling down already had refrigerant in them at one point? If so then the refrigerant is boiling off in the compressor. To test this, bang on the compressor and if the microns rise it is still boiling off in the oil
Zack, I am not 100% sure what you did or the app might have done as the screen was cropped, (there could be an app issue that occurred with the multiple gauge addition) but that app/graph was never entered into the "leak test" mode. It appears you went right to "decay testing". You cannot determine the difference between a leak and vapor pressure decay in a logarithmic chart. The chart will display a curve all on its own, that is the problem with logarithmic scaling. Logarithmic scaling hides the leak. That said, logarithmic scaling is required to show a full scale of vacuum on a chart as it is 760,000 points of data. If we did not use it your phone screen would have to be 24" tall. That is why we made the leak test mode. It only works at about 8000 microns and below. When the gauge is put into the leak test mode the chart switches from logarithmic to linear and rescales so you can see easily if you have a leak or a build-up of vapor pressure (typically due to moisture). Vapor pressure equalizes and tails off, a leak will show a continual rise. I do not have a pump at home so I cannot check the feature now, but see the article on how it works attached. A small leak like you had could easily pass the "decay test" as it is only looking at rise over time. The leak test, however, would have allowed you to see what was really happening. accutools.com/identifying-true-leaks-in-a-vacuum. Last, the gauge you are using, the BluVac Micro does not have time below target or time below decay target capability. It is not a programmable gauge so you cannot even set those in the app as we do not show them as options. I am guessing those are screenshots of the app before you connected the gauge? If you have a Micro connected those features are hidden, as the Micro does not have that capability. Those features are in the BluVac Professional, and those are the features you are paying for and getting in the higher end product.
I understand. It would have been helpful to see the decay in a linear representation. Since this vacuum would have passed according to the recommended decay time, would either app make assumptions based on the steady rise (albeit slow) in microns. Would it FAIL based on rise and not time (or maybe a combination) or would it be up to the technician looking at the decay in linear (leak test) mode? In short, how would I know this vacuumed failed?
@@HVACShopTalk It would be indicated by the linear rise. That is why we build that in. Everything leaks. It is the leak rate we are concerned with. From your finishing vacuum, a leak rate of 1 micron/minute is considered an acceptable rate of decay. Back of the napkin math shows you were around 11 microns/minute which is also an indicator of a leak. Another way to do determine if you have a leak or moisture is to pull down to 150 (this could be 150, 200, 300, whatever your finishing vacuum is), then time the rise to 200, pull down to 150 again and time the rise to 200. If the time is less the second time it is moisture. If the time is basically the same a leak.
A leak is a leak is a leak, There no 100 percent way to check for leak because there's so much different variables, example it could happen when the metal expand or contract, vibration, at static or a dynamic leak, the leak he show is a very small leak infact it can be a few onces a years, so in reality , it wont really matter as the system well function properly! In fact in the automotive field, we only address excessive leaks! eg, if u can drive your car for a year without having a problem with your ac cooling! Then is it really worth trying to replace a evaporator! MOST PEOPLE WONT WANT TO HAVE THAT JOB DONE BECAUSE IT EXPENSIVE AND ITS ALOT OR WORK ON MOST MODERN CARS ! Also a leak that small well response very well to a internal sealant! So every situation is different! Leaks well happen in fact without leaks there no need for AC technicians as it the biggest problem that we encounter in the ac and refrigeration field!
If you don’t TEST you’re GUESSING.... You have to test in order to get better, good , bad or indifferent... It make for hellacious debates with people who don’t use proper tools, practices, or techniques. But at least you make the effort to Do Tha Right Thang....
I am in my 2nd career now. I can say the same thing about a ton of guys in fiber optics. They just plug fiber in and never scope it. Wtf? You are jist guessing it will pass an endface analysis? That's not how it works, kids! Going back before we had digital gauges and or affordable micron gauges, I wonder if guys just vacuumed for 30 minutes and called it a day? Like in the early days of AC.
@@measureQuick how come that decay would result in a pass when your drawing in moisture from leak and thus rate of increase I would think would be significant! What am I missing here?
@@marcellomoraes7106 below 1000 microns in a properly vacuumed system means its pretty much guaranteed dehydrated, on a new coil in 10 minutes if it doesn't exceed 500 or 1000 on used system there is still no moisture present in the system, you can pull to a vaccuum of 250 and in less than 10 minutes go above 1000 but doesn't necessarily means their a definitive leak, its just equalizing with the current moisture in the system. Once you release charge moisture isnt getting in
How do I get in touch with this video’s sponsor? This is unspoken and largely unknown throughout the industry. Not to mention; not written in, I would guess, any manufacturer’s installation or service literature. I’ve certainly never read it any Trane or Carrier literature. I don’t even think I fully understand decay and what little grasp I think I have on the concept, I learned from you, Orr and Jim B. This is a can of worms with a big rabbit hole inside.
This is not really unspoken as it might be misunderstood. Here it is in a standard ICP (Carrier) manual (Page 5). Decay is due to moisture or equilibrium pressure. A leak will never equalize until the pressure difference is gone. You can see this with BluVac but not with other gauges. www.utcccs-cdn.com/hvac/docs/1011/Public/00/42101170100_ICP_25257.pdf
Pressure leak testing small leaks should be done with a pressure data loger small changes in temperature can give false positives by example a line set leak test with 450psig nitrogen will fluctuate up to 100 psig from cold night time temperatures to hot sunny temperatures
THIS WAS FUCKN BADASS ZACH!!! SUPER APPRECIATE YOU SHARING...I HAVE NOTICED THE SAME THING AS YOU...WHEN YOU TOLD ME WHAT YOU WERE DOING I HAD A COIL WITH THE SMALLEST LITTLE LEAK........ALMOST IDENTICAL TO YOURS...AND I PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS....I CANT THINK OF A WAY AROUND IT UNLESS THE INERT GAS WOULD MAKE A COLOR OR A LOUD WHINING SOUND WHEN IT HOTS OXYGEN....IDK MAN...ITS A GREAT THING...SOMEONE WILL FIHURE OUT A SOLUTION.... AMAZING JOB BRO.......
HVAC/R DUDE I hope that one of these apps will take into account the rate at which the decay raises. That way am I better tell the difference between a normal decay and a really slow leak. I’m a try to figure it out before the next show
Hi Zack . great video . you have opened a can of worms here. A great follow up would be to hook up the coil to a helium leak tester in vacuum mode (not sniff mode). something that can leak test down to say 1 x10-12mbar/l/sec like a leybold phoenix l300 . Then introduce helium to the know leak point . it could be that its leaking under pressure but sealing up under vacuum . we sometime see this depending on the shape of the leak point.
It would make sense to use a new non leaking coil to compare decay rates. I’d be interested in seeing where they diverge.
Zack, any chance you can repeat on a new coil? I’d love to see the decay.
I’d agree compare to a new 1.5 ton evap coil
I think this is a great video. Kudos to you for setting it all up to prove a point in an important aspect of our trade. It also further supports the things we have come to learn, i.e., that sometimes you can't always prove a leak with a vacuum that you can with pressure, and that sometimes you need higher pressures to finally expose a leak (perfect example is with flare joints).
Great test! Absolutely stunned by your findings, definitely not what I anticipated! This is absolutely huge and extremely concerning to me! Leaves too many questions for me as to how much time for decay test is needed and what is acceptable rate of decay?! This just blows my mind! Great vid bro!
Great video! I work in the refrigeration manufacturing industry and vacuum and pressure decay are both considered gross leak tests We do helium or refrigerant sniffing for fine leaks.
That sure makes sense. I know a good sniffer can detect a leak less than 1/2 oz refrigerant leak per year.
Thank you Zack for this video and test. I really appreciate exposing this issue in our trade. I found this a constant issue in my 28 years in the field when it comes to small leaks . I think it is a headache that we cannot eliminate for now with existing technology .Only techs that are not honest or do not have the skill or have not been in the trade for long enough would deny the existence of this "evil". Most of us, due to financial and time restrictions would vacuum a system to a satisfactory level , do a vacuum test and move to another job. The most of the time unaffordable solution is nitrogen pressure testing the system for prolonged periods of time like someone else mentioned here or following up with a leak check with a good leak detector. I hope other guys post some other solutions.
Re install that customers coils it has passed all tool tests. 😂😂😂😂. Only psi test I was taught was 24 hours 250-300 Psig. We can do this in refrigeration. I see where that would require some good dialogue with the customer for residential AC. No cooling for 24 hours is a hard thing do. Puts AC techs in a pickle. Can you do 300 psi for 24 hours and leave a gauge on and see it drops. Also u have great coil to test leak detectors 👍👍
Amazing information, I suffered a lot with micro leaks in the past
I can't imagine what more on 410A which is much more difficult to find leak. I can hear it hissing but when I look at the pressure gauge can't even see it. The worst thing to do on POE oil is pulling a vacuum when there is a leak and suck all moisture inside.
Maybe you should try cooling or heating the evaporator to make metal contract and expand also to simulate working condition.
Wow!!! Thanks for sharing and taking away my confidence in decay testing. Need to take a new approach in vacuum decay testing now.
I think I found a one in a lifetime leak. Most of the time decay test would be good.
If the app was tweaked to ignore time and red flag a constant rise in decay, that might be a good improvement. I know of issues with larger systems, especially VRF/VRV, that pass these type of tests, but continually over time lose charge. And with long line sets, branch selector boxes and fan coils, there are a lot of places to check for leaks. I’ve got the ultrasonic leak detector to help with these tiny leaks, the only caveat is you have to turn off the unit you are checking, or you get electronic noise from the boards in these systems. This was a very good demonstration, you hit the nail on the head with this one.
tcpHVAC/R Wait to you see the next one
Great job Zach! I would think most hvac techs like myself only have a regular micron gauge and have to go off of a decay test without an app. So in a situation like this we'd be screwed, scary to think about. I guess must of the time we're just lucky. My company wouldn't buy me the BluVac Pro even if i gave a convincing cost saving argument. Keep up the awesome informative videos! Viva la hvac revolution!!!
Most guys I know buy their own tools. Maybe it's just me but, I take pride in my tools.
Awesome content! I'm glad you were able to show the flaws in these instruments. With tests like this the industry and manufacturers will make us all better techs.
Mark, there is no flaw in the instrument, it was not used correctly to determine if the system had a leak or simply decay due to moisture in the system. accutools.com/identifying-true-leaks-in-a-vacuum
IN other words, you have to look at the line to see which is which? And, according to you that is done in a linear style leak mode, correct?
I think there's a flaw it's just not in the instrument. The flaw is in our understanding or I should say our thought process in residential leaks and vacuums. We need to have greater discussion on what a vacuum is and its purpose and what the decay test actually proves vs what we think it does ( techs in the field) etc. I'm glad you stuck with it Zack, great video series
@@amattar02 The "flaw was how the instrument was used. There are a decay test and a leak test in the software. Decay will continue over time as moisture breaks away from the walls of the piping. Decay will slow as the vapor pressure reaches equilibrium to a reasonably undetectable rate. A leak will show a constant rate of rise.
@@zacksintheshop Its, not the line, it is the mode of the app. In a decay test, the graph is logarithmic, in leak test it is linear showing a much smaller portion of the graph.
That is why I love the H10 When it says it has a leak I do a big blue spray test with high PSI on the coil. Would be nice to put on a box of water like the old days of looking for leaks in a tire. Great video by the way. Hope family and all doing well.
To me, the 10 minute rule has been dis-proven in your experiment. But, it's a trade off. Do I sit around all day or be reasonable and considering the age of the coil, etc? Great demo!
That's pretty neat to see, very interesting 🤔
After watching this your left scratching your head. I can’t help but think does it really matter anymore ?
Zack, would like to see this done again with the bluvac pro micron gage. That would be fair to bluvac and MQ. I think.
Nice test by the way. Thinking you have a sheet rub thur leak, find it and expose it for all to see. Very educational.
Need a refrigerant with very large molecules. LOL
Loves the vids. Have to test with nitrogen. And let it hold. Thats the best way to test a system.
That's insane man. Great video brother
Thanks
That’s just great; spend all this money on tools and you still can prove its a tight system! Stick with a 24hr pressure test I reckon thanks for the heads up
I agree, there's a lot to be said for a 24 hour pressure test. The only problem with that by itself is, non-condensables/moisture aren't detected.
Is there a part 2 to this video?
So how long below 500 microns? Or is it not go above 500 microns. I have had decays stay below 500 microns for 12 hours. Is this a leak or other things going on? Help!
I have a blu vac micron gauge the coupler it came with is crap, never says under vacuum once you isolate the system
Good video Zack.
On up to 5 ton splits with scroll R410a, When I use deep vac for leak testing, I would pull down to below 200, and isolate and wait up to 24 hours to determine the final level offed vac. If over 1000, pull down again and repeat till the rise level is around 500 leveled off at 24 hr because the moisture can blur the tiny leaks. If the rise never ends and is above 1micron per minute average seemly forever, there is a tiny leak. I only use vac for leak search if I have lots of days. I use the BluVAC Pro gauge. I find it better to use nitrogen at system rated test pressures found on the name plates and locate with bubbles/ ultra sonic. I have had systems with micro leaks that don’t leak under Vacuum but do when under pressure. For running systems that need annual addition of refrigerant, a combination of ultra sonic, H10 and the newer FP IR probe and bubbles
Is what I have success with. There is not one tool of method, each system and its condition and situation is different.
Thats how id like to do my evacuations aswell but when youre working for someone else and its quoted for a 1 day repair thats when it gets dicey and you can only do what you can do
@@45KevinG45 very true. That makes us techs always have to be in a rush
Why would any technician think that a vacuum leak check which is equal to a 15 psi pressure test is worth anything I just don’t get it can someone enlighten me.
Крутой чувак!
What was the leak rate for the coil ? lb/year.
You know that you can't make a system that is 100% tight. Even the best solderings, do leak at 0,0000 level. How did you find the leak in the first place.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. I don’t think any system is 100% leak proof. We’ve got minis with flare joints that almost never seal despite every attempt to make them tight. Testing systems overnight is not very realistic. Not many techs or companies are going to go to that length. I think we will find that all systems lose a small amount despite best practices.
Good video. But in reality companies and technicians are not going to put an evap coil under water unless absolutetly necassary. And that will be rare. It would take to much time. In warranty claims, manufactures may do this. I just don't know how often they do it.
The only thing I can think to find that leak is to use ultrasonic leak detector when doing a pressure test.
I bought the Bluevac with the thought to increase the quality of my jobs. So far, I have been using it a bit over that a year as a test... my conclusion is that you can NOT use it in the automotive industry. I tested it on tents of compressors and the always leak under vacuum. You can bring them down to 1100-1220 microns but not more than that (York compressor). They leak for the shaft seal. The thing is that they won’t leak under pressure because of the seal design.
Or is it that the systems you are pulling down already had refrigerant in them at one point? If so then the refrigerant is boiling off in the compressor. To test this, bang on the compressor and if the microns rise it is still boiling off in the oil
Do you know if you can use those yellow jacket gauges with measure quick app?
They are not compatible as of present time
Zack,
I am not 100% sure what you did or the app might have done as the screen was cropped, (there could be an app issue that occurred with the multiple gauge addition) but that app/graph was never entered into the "leak test" mode. It appears you went right to "decay testing".
You cannot determine the difference between a leak and vapor pressure decay in a logarithmic chart. The chart will display a curve all on its own, that is the problem with logarithmic scaling. Logarithmic scaling hides the leak. That said, logarithmic scaling is required to show a full scale of vacuum on a chart as it is 760,000 points of data. If we did not use it your phone screen would have to be 24" tall.
That is why we made the leak test mode. It only works at about 8000 microns and below. When the gauge is put into the leak test mode the chart switches from logarithmic to linear and rescales so you can see easily if you have a leak or a build-up of vapor pressure (typically due to moisture). Vapor pressure equalizes and tails off, a leak will show a continual rise. I do not have a pump at home so I cannot check the feature now, but see the article on how it works attached. A small leak like you had could easily pass the "decay test" as it is only looking at rise over time. The leak test, however, would have allowed you to see what was really happening.
accutools.com/identifying-true-leaks-in-a-vacuum.
Last, the gauge you are using, the BluVac Micro does not have time below target or time below decay target capability. It is not a programmable gauge so you cannot even set those in the app as we do not show them as options. I am guessing those are screenshots of the app before you connected the gauge? If you have a Micro connected those features are hidden, as the Micro does not have that capability. Those features are in the BluVac Professional, and those are the features you are paying for and getting in the higher end product.
I understand. It would have been helpful to see the decay in a linear representation. Since this vacuum would have passed according to the recommended decay time, would either app make assumptions based on the steady rise (albeit slow) in microns. Would it FAIL based on rise and not time (or maybe a combination) or would it be up to the technician looking at the decay in linear (leak test) mode? In short, how would I know this vacuumed failed?
by either app I mean bluvac or MQ
Great article makes me want the pro model
@@HVACShopTalk It would be indicated by the linear rise. That is why we build that in. Everything leaks. It is the leak rate we are concerned with. From your finishing vacuum, a leak rate of 1 micron/minute is considered an acceptable rate of decay. Back of the napkin math shows you were around 11 microns/minute which is also an indicator of a leak. Another way to do determine if you have a leak or moisture is to pull down to 150 (this could be 150, 200, 300, whatever your finishing vacuum is), then time the rise to 200, pull down to 150 again and time the rise to 200. If the time is less the second time it is moisture. If the time is basically the same a leak.
A leak is a leak is a leak, There no 100 percent way to check for leak because there's so much different variables, example it could happen when the metal expand or contract, vibration, at static or a dynamic leak, the leak he show is a very small leak infact it can be a few onces a years, so in reality , it wont really matter as the system well function properly! In fact in the automotive field, we only address excessive leaks! eg, if u can drive your car for a year without having a problem with your ac cooling! Then is it really worth trying to replace a evaporator! MOST PEOPLE WONT WANT TO HAVE THAT JOB DONE BECAUSE IT EXPENSIVE AND ITS ALOT OR WORK ON MOST MODERN CARS ! Also a leak that small well response very well to a internal sealant! So every situation is different! Leaks well happen in fact without leaks there no need for AC technicians as it the biggest problem that we encounter in the ac and refrigeration field!
If you don’t TEST you’re GUESSING....
You have to test in order to get better, good , bad or indifferent... It make for hellacious debates with people who don’t use proper tools, practices, or techniques. But at least you make the effort to Do Tha Right Thang....
I am in my 2nd career now. I can say the same thing about a ton of guys in fiber optics. They just plug fiber in and never scope it. Wtf? You are jist guessing it will pass an endface analysis? That's not how it works, kids!
Going back before we had digital gauges and or affordable micron gauges, I wonder if guys just vacuumed for 30 minutes and called it a day? Like in the early days of AC.
How much Freon a year did this coil leak
Not sure how many pounds
@@zacksintheshop That would be a good test.
Everything leaks. Important is leak rate.
Decay!
Blew my mind! What do we do now??? Decay for 1/2 an hour? We need more info
No, you do not need more time. Decay is for looking at moisture. The leak test mode is for leakage.
MeasureQUICK thanks!
@@measureQuick how come that decay would result in a pass when your drawing in moisture from leak and thus rate of increase I would think would be significant! What am I missing here?
@@marcellomoraes7106 below 1000 microns in a properly vacuumed system means its pretty much guaranteed dehydrated, on a new coil in 10 minutes if it doesn't exceed 500 or 1000 on used system there is still no moisture present in the system, you can pull to a vaccuum of 250 and in less than 10 minutes go above 1000 but doesn't necessarily means their a definitive leak, its just equalizing with the current moisture in the system. Once you release charge moisture isnt getting in
How do I get in touch with this video’s sponsor?
This is unspoken and largely unknown throughout the industry. Not to mention; not written in, I would guess, any manufacturer’s installation or service literature. I’ve certainly never read it any Trane or Carrier literature. I don’t even think I fully understand decay and what little grasp I think I have on the concept, I learned from you, Orr and Jim B.
This is a can of worms with a big rabbit hole inside.
This is not really unspoken as it might be misunderstood. Here it is in a standard ICP (Carrier) manual (Page 5). Decay is due to moisture or equilibrium pressure. A leak will never equalize until the pressure difference is gone. You can see this with BluVac but not with other gauges.
www.utcccs-cdn.com/hvac/docs/1011/Public/00/42101170100_ICP_25257.pdf
This video is sponsored by knowledge. His email is hvacshoptalk@gmail.com
Oh I was curious about decays contact info.
Nice
Somebody just put some leak stop in that coil😂😭
These coils obviously have a one way leak feature.
I like that.
Pressure leak testing small leaks should be done with a pressure data loger small changes in temperature can give false positives by example a line set leak test with 450psig nitrogen will fluctuate up to 100 psig from cold night time temperatures to hot sunny temperatures
Yes do t think large of a fluctuation is correct.
Put coil in tube of water
No hvac tech is gonna sit out in the field for an extra 8hrs just to see if it drops that small of a pressure
This is true
It's hopeless....... Everything leaks lol
Decay
lab grade boys! inches of mercury
THIS WAS FUCKN BADASS ZACH!!! SUPER APPRECIATE YOU SHARING...I HAVE NOTICED THE SAME THING AS YOU...WHEN YOU TOLD ME WHAT YOU WERE DOING I HAD A COIL WITH THE SMALLEST LITTLE LEAK........ALMOST IDENTICAL TO YOURS...AND I PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS....I CANT THINK OF A WAY AROUND IT UNLESS THE INERT GAS WOULD MAKE A COLOR OR A LOUD WHINING SOUND WHEN IT HOTS OXYGEN....IDK MAN...ITS A GREAT THING...SOMEONE WILL FIHURE OUT A SOLUTION.... AMAZING JOB BRO.......
HVAC/R DUDE I hope that one of these apps will take into account the rate at which the decay raises. That way am I better tell the difference between a normal decay and a really slow leak. I’m a try to figure it out before the next show
@@zacksintheshop yeah that would seem like the most logical easiest way to do it as well👍👍👍👍
Use some kind of smokegenerator.
But it will probably not scare your customer.
This is a direction HVAC industry is going now. Some folks still don’t believe in vacuum gauge at all. Leaking coil? Job security!!! Lol