Fun Features for the “WORST” Weapons of D&D 5e
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- Here's some fun new features for the 2nd worst weapon in Dungeons & Dragons 5e! ▶️ More below! ⏬
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00:00 determining dnd 5e's worst weapon
00:18 why the 5e whip is disliked
01:49 the whip proficiency problem
03:10 a 5e cat-o-nine-tails simple whip
03:44 new 5e whip weapon features
#dnd #dungeonsanddragons 
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Your better off not playing 5e/ 3.5 is a far far better system as is first ed and second ed and basic 3rd ed.
Re: "Is a Whip more frightening/distracting than a blade?"
In modern self defense, it is a commonly repeated idea that; knives, at close range, are equally as deadly as firearms. They are quick to deploy and when it comes to having holes put in your organs, it doesnt matter if its a bullet or a sharp. HOWEVER, it is common that in the heat of a grapple, a struck individual FAILS TO RECOGNISE that they have been wounded by a bladed implement and continues to attempt to fight until they are incapacitated. Where as comparatively, when a firearm is deployed, the vast majority of attackers falter and retreat, even when not wounded, upon hearing the deafening SOUND of a gunshot.
Panic at a loud sound close by, is a reflex. A whip crack may very well rupture your eardrum if it is close enough - and it is unmistakably unnatural. I would say this is evidence to at least support the plausibility of whips being a practical weapon that is effective at breaking concentration.
Nice breakdown! That makes a strong case, and maybe I'll try to come up with some suggested rules, but leave it as a suggested utility rather than a weapon property that's always "on"
So whips should be able to deal thunder damage against a Con save. Got it! /s
But seriously, maybe that's not the worst idea for some sort of special ability or just a magical whip for a thunderclap additionally to the damage dealt or something.
@@yarion4774 Or on a Nat 20, you can aim is so precisely that the negligible 1 thunder damage hits right next to whoever's ear causes them to go deaf equal to the number of rounds equal to your proficiency mod. And that could be a baseline whip feature since it is realistic but also if you have a baddie who is a leather daddy, don't make your PCs go deaf lol
I would rule that imposing disadvantage on concentration checks would only happen if you are using the full 10' reach. But since you're targeting casters who, most likely, want to keep their distance, this may still be easily achievable most of the time.
@@yosemiteanemone4714 That's really nice as well!
I wanna be the thug in my party just pulling out a length of chain every time we get into a fight
"Let's go, Lolth Queen Of Evil. Time to taste this tire iron."
Tavern brawler is the feat for you...
Best use of a D&D sidekick lol
I always wanted to use a chain with a lock on the end. You can beat someone, then bind them. Backup weapon would be a crowbar.
I am the guy in my dnd party who pulls out a length of chain every fight
So, one slight thing, I think it should say, "the target must be a size equal to or less than the weapon" or something along those lines so it can RAW synergize with things like enlarge and rune knight.
I thought something like this too. My idea was to say "creatures the same size as you or smaller". The only issue with this is that it isn't connected to the weapon but you instead so it allows a large creature to pick up a "medium" whip and grapple another large creature with it...
But the alternative is pretty wordy and complex... 🤷♂️
Yeah I'd have to look into this
I think it should be related to the wielder's size, not the weapon size. If you enlarge a whip and give it to a gnome, they shouldn't be able to grapple a bear with it.
@@scottclowe I disagree. I think it would be rad as hell to be a gnome with a giant whip grappling bears
@@thenecrodancer4002 It would, but it's quite contrary to the standard rules for grappling IMO. And it doesn't make sense that they can't grapple it with a small or medium whip, but can with a large whip two sizes bigger than them. But I guess it depends - are the rules on grappling just about being able to find purchase on the creatures form, or are they also about having sufficient build to utilize that purchase?
Imo the whip only needs 1 upgrade: having reach increased to 15 ft. With the normal rules, you can already exchange your normal attacks with grapples, except you can do these with athletics. That means that normal grappling (at least for str based characters) is generally more effective then the whip assisted grapples. Giving it 15ft range however would bring it into a league of its own, and it's coincidentally exactly what made the whip special in 3.5.
And an upgrade that rogue needs is proficiency in whips
I think having some weapon mastery feats would help, maybe the whip at its base is ten feat, but there’s a “whip master” feat that increases it to 15 and adds some other benefits, maybe a higher damage die and something else
@@SwedishSalmonbox Give Assassin subtypes TWO Martial Proficiencies as part of their class attributes.
Yeah, and Grappling and Shoving are one of the only things Strength really has over Dex (which is pretty much the best ability score), so I'm not super crazy about a weapon that makes grappling and tripping opponents easy (and better in some ways) for Dex users. On the other hand, it would be nice to have weapons that make Dex users consider anything other than a rapier.
@@ColonelMustache Same, grappling, shoving and disarming are a core part of STR-based characters, I dislike things that let other characters be as good or better at them than the STR-based martials. Plus weapons giving reliable reactions is too powerful, action economy is king in 5e, so it should require a feat at minimum to gain a reliable new use of one of your BA or reaction.
5:58 why not make it opposed athletics checks? that way you can just make it normal grappling/shoving, but at range. And the thing that balances it is that you have to hit with the first attack to activate it too.
Basically I thought it was too much to have the attacker need to make a successful attack AND a successful check, but it seems like sticking to the normal grapple rules would simplify it a little
Why not just make it an "auto-grapple" like certain monster abilities. The target then have to use action to get out of it.
The cantrip thornwhip does an non-saveable forced move anyway
@@BobWorldBuilder Keeping it simple is a good rule of thumb, and it allows grappling with a 10' reach.
Also be good to add utility in using it to extend potential jump distance or pulling levers at reach a la Indiana Jones
@@Klijpo I think exploration utility like that should be roleplayed and negotiated with the DM
@@Sibula That makes some sense. Just think it works better as a utility device as it's main function rather than as a weapon. The specific purpose the historical weapon was designed for is not something we really want to emphasise (ie: the chastisement of prisoners, slaves, and sailors).
Your disarm mechanic for the whip is exactly how I have ruled at my table when it comes up.
I hope it playtested well!
A few remarks:
- The Vanilla whip has one unique thing - it has reach on a one-handed weapon. It also lacks the "Special" property, meaning - assuming you can get proficiency - it is eligible for Monks Dedicated Weapon option and Kensei Weapons. Which includes the increasing Damage Die with experience. Even if reach is not the most useful with vanilla Monk abilities, so it would be a bit like a Gunk - a "Whunk"?
- One weird concept I had was a "Dompteur". Literally the Circus guy that kept the Tiger from running into the crowd, using Whip+Sentinel. Add a shield and you should get something useful. Even on a Small character that can not use Heavy Weapons.
Weapon damage has little impact if your tanking is primarily about stopping and hindering enemies.
- What you wrote up works a lot like the Pathfinder 2E Whip. Their main attraction is that they can trip and disarm enemies on range - funnily that does conflict with Finesse, as you need good STR to be good at both those maneuvers.
Also note that whips of all shapes are counted as flails for Critical Effects (Auto Prone on Crit).
- Pathfinder has two other notable things that work "kinda like a Whip":
1. Brawling Weapons/Monk stances. It is not common, but some of those have reach.
2. The "Asp Coil", which by rules is a sword, but has reach like a Whip. None of the trip support or finesse, however.
The dompteur's shield should be a wooden stool
@@hammdogporkington3058 Totally was the plan 😊
I feel like "Conan O'Brien the Barbarian" is a joke character concept I've never seen anyone play or even talk about, which is weird because it seems like such an obvious one.
You could be the first! haha
I both love and hate that design. I could really see someone duel wielding an ax or sword in one hand and a whip in the other. That idea of I will keep you at range if you out class me, I will engage if I outclass you, and if you try to get away nope. It really brings that Balrog vibe where even a beast or barbarian could use it, same as someone shifty. The hate part of the design is unfair to you, it is that the dual wielding rules are bad in 5E and to hit that trope you often have to homebrew a better system. All and all awesome.
Luckily one dnd seems to take a shot at the dual wielfing rules.
I really like the ranged grapple feature, but i think that is enough realistically to increase the whip fantasy.
Ive always thought that adding a disarm ability to weapons takes away any reason to use the disarming strike maneuvre.
Same with casters trying to use a stealth or deception check to subtley cast a spell, because thats what sorcerers are for, or maybe psionics. It takes away their 'thing.'
All is well however if in the campaign there are no sorcerers or maneuvre users
One or two of the least used weapons can borrow from other abilities without making those abilities redundant. It just allows non battle masters to try doing one of the things the expert does. And probably not as well as the expert. Case in point, spell casters should be allowed to try and covertly cast a spell, and roll a check to find out their results. Sorcerers who have chosen the subtle spell meta magic remove the somatic and verbal components completely. That allows a Misty step, or magic missile casting at a thought. Even bound and gagged, they can cast spells. That’s way beyond a stealth check. THAT borders on psionic ability. Try to think of it as offering more options to those that lack abilities, not removing abilities from other classes, because it certainly does not do that.
Here’s how I see it, the disarming strike is simply better and than the disarming attack. Hell, each maneuver that has a normal counterpart is better.
Honestly, I think all martial classes should have some version of the current maneuver mechanic built in. Feinting or disarming your opponent is so incredibly common.
@@Sibula sounds like you should look into an older edition. More customization for feature like everyone get a maneuver. Or take the martial adept feat.
The big difference between Whip Disarm and Battlemaster Disarm, is that whip disarms do NO Damage, and the maneuver does Bonus Damage...
Not every Conan is a Barbarian, some are Jesters and Bards
Too true
Cantrip: thornwhip, 30 feet range, 1d6 magical piercing dmg, non-saveable 10 range forced movement.
The whip is still weak
Damaging cantrips tend to be better than weapons at face. Firebolt has comparable range and damage to a heavy crossbow (although in your case and mine you add modifier to damage with weapon and not spell).
@@hewhogoesbymanynames it's not about the damage. A lvl1 fighter can do more damage with an average single attack then a lvl17 bard with 4d4 Vicious Mockery.
What I presented there is the utility (being magical for overcoming resistances and doesn't even require a save for the forced movement) and ease of acces.
I always love the grappling property from Clockwork Dragon’s Expanded Armory, where it uses the attack roll as the DC for the grapple check:
GRAPPLING
Grappling Weapons have hooks, chains or other means
of grabbing and holding a creature. When you make an
attack with a grappling weapon, you may choose to deal
no damage and instead attempt to grapple the target or
knock it prone by making a grapple check using your
attack roll in place of a strength (athletics) check.
I like this, thanks for the tip!
This is pretty solid! Thanks!
3:30 going pretty overcomplicated there; I'd suggest a simpler option, rogues are automatically proficient in finesse weapons.
We played in a Lvl 3 one shot and I did a 1lvl Barbarian 2 lvl Rogue human variant with the mobile feat. Fun shenanigans running into whip range attacking and running back. My DM hated it.
Maybe allow whips (and other ensnaring weapons) to initiate a grapple or shove action at their reach instead of at touch range? Does what you're aiming for without needing to bring in any extra rules.
Yeah this needs some simplifying and that would be a good approach!
Never underestimate the ability to knock an opponent prone in combat!
I think adding a concealability to the whip can also make sense. Wrap it around your waist and its a belt.
That might be a good call!
Looking forward to the blowgun vid. I'm slowly putting together a character for a future campaign, a lawful neutral life cleric who is secretly a serial poisoner. His main focus is research and development of poisons and cures, and uses his charitable work and combat to gather data and one of the weapons i've been eyeing was the blowgun but i don't love the mechanics of it as is and how D&D5e handles making poisons. Hope to get some more ideas from you in the near future :)
It already exists! It's the "Worst/Least Favorite Weapon" one from a few weeks ago
Interesting Idea, Bob, I like where you're going with it.
If I may suggest a thought. You might consider two options that a player can use but most declare before the attack. If the player hits the target and was aiming for the legs the target is grappled with a check or save to knock prone (representing whipping the legs together), if the player targets the arms then a modified Restraint, the target can't move further away but can still move closer or stay at the same distance, also the target for that round (or until the target breaks the restraint which ever come first) has disadvantage on attacks and others have attack with advantage on the target (representing interfering with the targets arms to use a shield, weapon or focus properly).
See what you think, mod to make better. Thanks
Thanks for the fun ideas! Called shots seem to be a divisive topic in the D&D community, but it makes sense here!
Optional idea for the whip’s grapple feature: you still keep the damage upon hit, the enemy must make a contested grapple check and, upon failure, the enemy is grappled. Then, as a bonus action, the player can pull the enemy. Insert the rest of what you said here.
I feel the instant grab upon hit is a little too strong, especially if you can dual wield whips or combo into a strong follow up extra attack with your second weapon. At the same time, the cost of a reaction is too high for the pull effect. I feel this middle ground might hit that sweet spot, especially for martials (though I’m open to other ideas, like making it a free action or using your interact with object action to immediately pull an item into your hand).
Note: the grapple check does not apply to any items, wielded or not.
Also, final thoughts: the ability to Indiana Jones whip swing. Definitely want to add that somehow
8+prof+Str/Dex is a mouthful for sure, but most abilities for subclasses that set the DC of a player ability use exactly that formula. Namely the Battle Master Subclass uses exactly that to set the DC for Manuvers.
I would say many of these features do step on its toes a bit, but imo, since they get to add their superiority dice to either the damage of the attack, or other effect, these would open them up to take different manuvers that might not be the best pick normally
I just found your channel this week and I cannot express how much it has helped me as a DM. I'm currently going through your channel and watching a handful of videos and they are all not only incredibly helpful, but pleasant to watch. Your delivery is welcoming and your voice is quite soothing; overall, you just have some great advice and seem like a lovely human! Thank you for prioritizing fun!
I don't know about whips in 5e, but they're not that bad in Pathfinder. They're very feat-heavy, but according to official rules, whips have a lot of utility if you use attacks of opportunity to constantly trip and grapple opponents. You can basically become a moving Area of Effect.
They don't deal damage through armor though, so they're only really useful against monsters or as a secondary weapon.
@@reaganeidemiller7132 I think there was a feat for that, but I'm not sure. It's been a while. Still, it's more about utility than about damage. You trip people, then stab them or have your group do it.
Honestly if you are cladded in mail or plate armor, the defender is more likely to try and grab the whip with his offhand. In middle age, knights weren't afraid to block/deflect a sword swing with an armored gauntlet. It's more of a torture instrument than a weapon. I did a Halfling barbarian rogue with a shield and a whip for fun but, ... yeah...
You say "as a reaction, you can attempt to pull the grappled target toward you" However, in DnD, Reactions are always triggered by something happening, and nowhere in this block of text does it say what triggers the reaction. I would change it in the following way.
If you are grappling an opponent, you cannot use the whip for damage. Instead, you can use your attacks to pull on the whip. This either pulls the creature 5 feet towards you, or you can make an attempt to shove the creature prone. If you use your whip to shove a creature, that creature has disadvantage on it's STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics) check to resist the shove.
Good call about the reaction. I wonder if making it into bonus action would be a good medium between reaction and a whole other action
The really awesome thing about this video is that that guy who was whippin' around with Conan is at the Rennaisance Faire closest to my house every single year. Firewhip guy, he's a real stand up dude. And I had the EXACT same thought you did after seeing his show. I was like, "Damn, I'm gonna homebrew whips to be able to be dual wielded, hands down. This guy has made me wanna do a whip character." Thanks for the great content as usual.
Hi Bob, I've done a lot of whip cracking and have thoughts! Even if they may make things way too complicated.
-IRL a whip really doesn't do very much damage and is stopped by heavy cloth. When I would try to learn a new trick I would literally just wear a hat and a denim jacket as protection. I would probably even let someone lash me for a dare or a bet, but there is no way I would let someone stab me with a dagger, yet they deal the same damage in DnD. Yes I have made myself bleed, yes it stings like hell when you get yourself, but I would make an opponent wearing medium or heavy armor immune to its attack.
-They are also only really useful at range, but they are also super fast. Look up "snake killer", people use this in whip boxing where they make a sequence of lashes at their opponents face in a couple of seconds. Giving whips 2 or 3 attacks weak attacks per turn is totally reasonable imo. Almost like it is a short range magic missile.
-You could change the whole concept of a whip and make it a defensive/reactive weapon. Rather than using the grappled condition you use restrained. So when you make an attack you don't deal any damage, but the opponent has to roll to combat the restrained condition. In your second hand you have something like a dagger or hand axe which you now get to attack with advantage. If you start your next round with the opponent still restrained you then get two actions with your second weapon. It's like a high risk, high reward strategy, if you fail to restrain the opponent you might be in serious trouble, but if you do you get to wail down on them with almost guaranteed hits. You could also give the whip a free reaction, where you get to make an opportunity attack when and opponent closes on you.
-Make them magic! Self igniting fire whips that deal and extra D4 fire damage and an extra 2d4 if the opponent is restrained! It could also do cone shaped area attack with a recharge. Silvered whips Ala "Underworld". Thunder whips which have lightning and thunder attacks. Lots of cool options.
In my games I made a feat to enhance whips:
Whip Master
• Your reach with whips increases by 5ft
• Using your whip you can take the Use an Object action to manipulate obects at range, such as opening a door, pulling a lever, or snuffing out a candle, provided the object is in range of your whip.
• As a bonus action when you hit with a whip you can attempt to grapple or shove a creature within range of your whip, just as if you were within 5 feet of them. If you successfully grapple a creature with your whip, you cannot make use of your whip until the grapple ends.
• As a bonus action, if there is a secure object above you within your whips reach, such as a chandelier or tree branch, you can swing with your whip and move up to double your reach with your whip in a straight line.
This is honestly some of the best examinations of the whip as a Dungeons & Dragons weapon I've ever seen!s I would love to implement these rules into my next campaign.
Thanks very much!
I do love how pretty much all of the changes you make are basically: "Hey, what if we never dropped the weapon rules from 3.5?"
I would say, "the weapon *concepts from 3.5"
I did look at those rules (and even pathfinder) when doing some initial research for this, and I can't recall the details now, but I know I didn't really like how it was handled
I've played Pathfinder and even wrote a whip guide. Basically, according to official rules, you can get 1 million attacks of opportunity when your enemies do anything, which you can use to trip, disarm, or grapple. It effectively. Turns you into a giant attack of opportunity. And also basically the guy from the Conan video.
I made a "motivating" whip where a creature hit with the whip can add the damage they received from the whip to an ability check they do within 1 minute.
Yes it is easily abused but my players find it so cursed they don't want to use it for character reasons 😅
In the real world most whips were "motivating" whips. Move faster, horsie. Get along little doggies (cattle). Work faster, slaves.
Just had a PC use a whip to wrap up a harpy from the deck of an airship. I came up with the same attack roll hit =grapple and used opposed str checks to see if it got yanked closer or not. My “on the fly” ruling was to make player use their action to do this though and a reaction instead is a way better idea.
Glad it worked in playtest! haha
I've got a Bard subclass on Beyond - College of the Ringmaster - that does some fun stuff with whips. Made it specifically because I so enjoy the whip as a "something different" weapon in games/movies. "Soft weapons" in general (whips, meteor hammers, rope darts, plum flowers, etc.) are just so much fun to watch (and use).
The way that is currently worded, you can trip an Ancient dragon with your whip. I feel like creatures more then 1 size larger then you should at least have advantage on the save.
No you can't, since it specifies you can only grapple a medium or smaller creature. That said, there's definitely room for improvement in the wording.
Now that's a cool redesign! I was afraid you were gonna go the road of extra effect on crit, which would matter little since it's already a crit. Thank you for going the extra mile and making this amazing version
Thanks very much!
Never had an issue with the whip. The paladin in my CoS campaign used it to great effect.
Regardless, I agree with the light property.
Nice castlevania theme. Without a thematic coolness it’s really bad
@@HuseyinCinar how? It has the reach property and is finesse. It's a very unique weapon. How is the whip so much worse than a shortsword besides the obvious 2 points of potential damage?
@@HuseyinCinar Would you say the scimitar is a bad weapon? Because if no, then neither is the whip.
I homebrewed a simple magic whip a while back that I like quite a bit. The whip has a few charges and you can use an action to crack the whip and cast command at a creature. But, if you attack the creature with the whip and deal damage you can then crack the whip as a bonus action to cast command and the creature has disadvantage on the saving throw. It's literally a magic version of in the movies where the henchman is cracking the whip to get all the slaves to work harder building the villains castle or something and makes for a good scene to play out, where the players fight that guy and then he uses the whip on them in the fight and they get it when they beat him. Actually now that I remember this item I'm gonna bring it back in my current campaign.
Ok... You now have a few of your next videos... Find someone in the SCA, fantasy LARP, lightsaber schools, and have them attack you. What better way to test combat but to be in combat! (Of course following all safety and comedy measures!) So many videos on how unreal dnd combat is from those in the real combat world. I would LOVE to see a lover of the game and thier story around experiencing live action combat!
Haha that would be quite the project! Maybe at some point in the future
In 5e, reactions need to specify what exactly they are reacting to. For your pull feature, you haven't implemented any such reaction trigger. Can you react to nothing at any time while the grapple is held to pull it towards you, or is it specifically reacting to the target initially being grappled? I would change the wording of it as follows:
As a reaction to successfully grappling the target, or as a bonus action on subsequent turns, you may...
But the rest of it seems pretty cool!
Yeah I think that's a great call! Thanks!
I realy like your idea to change the less appealing wepons in DnD, your changes to the whip are great, but I have some suggestions
first I think the ability to grapple and then use your reaction to pull them is abit too strong and I would make it bounus action.
Aditionaly I would say ther needs to be save not only if you target creature, but also item held by creature.
About the save DC I would make it (10+PB+strength) because you may be abel to attack whith your dexterity, but not to pull someone. Also maybe add that if they success in the save buy 5 or more not only they arent puled but also the grapel breaks.
For last I would make a specification that you cant attack whith the whip while grapling.
So I gave the whip a similar upgrade for my homerules. I gave it that grappling property (But a little simpler) and another property called bypass where it ignores bonus AC from shields with the idea that it can essentially just wrap around shields to hit the target. I also gave this property to the boomerang, the urumi, and the flail.
Additionally I'm going to make it, the rope dart, and the urumi (all homebrew weapons mechanically similar to the whip) the Light property because of this video.
I swear that whip guy keeps following me to every ren fair I go to. You can hear him do that around the entire park
I think the Whip should be able to used for a ranged grapple or disarm or grab items far away
IMO, though the whip's a finesse weapon, the DC of the grappling test shouldn't be based on DEX, only in STR, because this seems to be a brute strenght contest. If this is not the case, the target of the grapple should be able to resist it with DEX as well.
Yeah good point, I'd rather go for both being able to use STR or DEX
Allow a player to use it as a reaction during an enemy's turn to trip, grapple or pull a moving enemy towards them.
Orc running at the squishy rogue? Nope. Time to meet the tank and he's kinky.
With a bull whip, there are several forms of attack. The basic lash, which would be the normal 1d4. There is also the crack. That should do the 1d4 slashing and an additional 1d4 concussion with a chance to stun but with a greater difficulty to achieve. And the grapple attack makes three.
I wonder if some weapons were left intentionally vague or empty for a few reasons?
1) To keep the formatting of the book simple and without disrupting layout for when it is time to print.
2) To encourage player creativity combined with DM problem solving.
I know when my friends and I have played older editions we would allow the whip to grapple or the blowgun to be used as a snorkel. In fact, I think it was 2nd edition where my character had a blowgun and I used to snorkel with under water to stealthily infiltrate an enemy encampment. Good times.
However, I am all for additional features/utility for weapons/items. Because not everyone is equally creative and it could help give a nudge to those less creative folks who may need a hand up.
Recently started playing an explorer themed gnome rogue in a Tomb of Anhillation game, and dipped into Fighter to get access to a whip for that ranged sneak attack opportunity.
I have a couple of ideas and suggestions for this, so I would appreciate if you could spend a few minutes going through this wall of text =)
I would suggest a small change for the whip's Grappling feature:
Instead of "The target you grapple must be Medium or smaller" it could be "You can only grapple a target that is one size larger than you or smaller." I assume the idea behind how you put it was for Small creatures using the whip and for Large creatures to be too large to hold still, but there are a few problems with that:
1. Enlarge/Reduce's enlarging option means that your weapons also grows in size with you, meaning that it would be weird for you to still be able to grapple Medium or smaller creatures with the enlarged whip.
2. WIth these rules a Tiny creature can grapple a Medium creature.
3. If we make a comparison to a lasso for example (which isn't a weapon in D&D, but could be), they can be used by humans to grapple bigger creatures like horses and cows, etc. So in my opinion it makes sense for it to work against creatures one size larger like normal grappling does.
In fact, this could just use the normal grappling rules with some added clarifications such as: "The target can only use its movement to move closer to you in a straight line while grappled this way." (this would also mean that they CAN'T use their movement to get up if they are prone) along with the whole knocking them prone and pulling them closer deal. I would also suggest adding "also" to the sentence: "On a failure, targets your size or larger are knocked prone, and targets smaller than you are *also* pulled 10 feet toward you." since it isn't immediately clear if small creatures are also pulled in addition to being knocked prone (which I assume is the case).
Using your reaction on the additional feature is also somewhat strange. I personally sometimes use reactions in my homebrew in a similar manner, but generally reactions are clearly defined in 5e as... well... "reactions" to a trigger of some sort. For example, the Shield spell you cast as a reaction is triggered by an attack that would hit you. This feature lacks a clear trigger, so I would suggest adding something for that. Lacking a clear trigger can lead to some weird interactions with different stuff, for example: Could you interrupt someone casting a spell by pulling them prone? Can you pull someone while they are trying to hit your friend and would that cause the hit to automatically miss or cause the roll to be at a disadvantage?
One thing that is also a bit unclear is what happens if you just let go of the whip? Is the target still grappled (like if the whip is wrapped around its legs or something) or does the condition just end? Also I just noticed that with the way the feature is written, you can still attack the target while it is being grappled WITH THE WHIP you are using to grapple it =/ I don't think that's intended ^_^'
Lastly, if you want to think of a better way to set the DC, I was thinking something along the lines of "the DC is equal to 10 + your STR modifier + the whip's magic bonus if any" or just "13 + the whip's magic bonus if any" (meaning a +2 whip would get +2 added to the DC). It just doesn't make any sense to me that DEX would apply here, but if it can be justified I have no qualms with that either. I understand why you want to make DEX valid for this for all the rogues and other DEX based characters out there, in which case I would prefer my example for setting the DC as a flat-ish bonus. You could also give bigger creatures an advantage and smaller creatures a disadvantage on the roll, but you kind of risk bloating the feature at this point.
Let me know what you think if you read the whole thing or at least part of it! =D
One thing I would say would feel better is this:
Much like a pike, a whip isn't generally effective in close combat. It's a weapon to keep people at bay. Leave the Light property on it, and Finesse, but increase the die to 1d6 and give it disadvantage on attack rolls made within five feet.
My reasoning for this is, if you try to use a whip, you'll notice quickly the only effective part is the tip. It NEEDS to have that wind-up, that momentum, to travel through the whole length of it before that satisfying sonic boom that can rupture an eardrum. If someone gets within range, you flatout can NOT get the motion you need. And then, at best, you have a really hard leather haft that is a mere annoyance to get smacked in the head with or a measly 9-ish feet of rope.
Adding this disadvantage is not only realistic but provides incentive for people to use weapons alongside the whip instead. Using the grapple feature at range to pull that enemy just within reach to strike with their scimitar or shortsword (or non-Light weapons like the longsword if they took Dual Wielder). Especially utilitarian for a Halfling rogue who's always just shy of getting to enemies in one turn because of that darned 25ft movement speed (not considering the changes in OneD&D), or for the STR dump stat character who can now use it to swing over gaps (provided there's something to grapple) that normally has to burden the party with burning a resource for things like Jump. Adds a ton of utility while portraying the effectiveness accurately and still granting a much-needed buff.
I like the Pathfinder whip, as I stated in my entry to the survey. It is one of the most unique weapons on that weapon list; unfortunately, not really a lethal weapon unless you take a -2 penalty. But, it has a 15-foot reach, can trip and disarm, it can attack anywhere within that 15 feet (normally a reach makes it impossible to attack directly in front of you), and it is also a finesse weapon. Biggest downsides are that it triggers an AOO to use and after a while it begins to do nothing at all for once you start fighting anything with +1 Armor or +3 natural armor it cannot do damage, which, although really makes sense, kind of puts a damper on everything past 3rd level... But it could still be a cool dual-wielding implement (Pathfinder is much more lenient on two-weapon fighting just stating that you get a higher penalty when using non-light weapons (-6 for main-hand, -10 for off-hand but these are reduced by two if one of those weapons is a light weapon) but feats can reduce this) used mostly for disarming and tripping in combat as I believe you can replace extra attacks with disarm and trip attempts.
I should stop here before I simply start explaining the whole Pathfinder ruleset in order to get my point across.
On disarm I'd normally have the item deposited at the wielder's feet, but on a natural 20 it flies right into your hand.
The whip should be very similar to the net in terms of mechanics. The only other thing I would let it do might be similar to Sapping Sting (You sap the vitality of one creature you can see in range. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d4 necrotic damage and fall prone) except change to a Dex save and damage to slashing.
Pulling an enemy is ok since things like Lightning Lure and Vine whip do it as cantrips. But it feels… I don’t know. Not thematically appropriate? I might believe you could trip someone, but wrapping a whip around anything thicker than the diameter of an arm would be really tough to do, especially with any consistency. And that is actually one of the defenses to a whip, Letting it wrapped around your arms and then pulling it from the attacker. You see this in the Disney movie Aladdin when he is defending the children.
Sounds like a cool magic whip!
Congrats on the 100k, Bob! I hope to reach that milestone myself one day
just write the DC as 8 + your attack bonus.
same number, much shorter.
That would be too vague, imo. "Attack Bonus" can be interperted as many things, which can lead to confusion and possibly conflict between the player and the DM. Bob's version is much more clear, and all in all better imo.
That would include magic weapon and combat style bonuses which will increase the dificulty and probably make it unbalanced.
@@viniciusrocha7125 i do think that magic weapons should increase the DC, but yeah i completely forgot about other bonuses, so i guess this doesnt work! thanks for pointing that out!
one thing that i've toyed with in the past for weapon attack grapples is that instead of using a set dc or calculation such as 8 + probo + str/dex, have them make a weapon attack and use the attack roll for the dc. it fits i think because the better you hit something, the better the grapple. but i also think that it should still clear the AC of the target. just my tthoughts tho
How to make the ship fun-ctional
A reach weapon that can be wielded with a shield can be excellent for characters who are primarily casters with warcaster since it allows them to cast reaction spells against enemies farther than 5 feet away, and increasing their covered number of squares from 8 to 12. Clerics who take feats, (or nature clerics who can get it for free), to get Thorn Whip to pull enemies into their Spirit Guardians benefit from this especially because adjacent enemies need to expend 10 feet of movement before they provoke an attack of opportunity, meaning after they're dragged back, they don't have the movement necessary to escape the Spirit Guardians. Also, while many Domains grant martial weapon proficiency, it's by no means required since you never actually attack with it. You're attack radius remains the same, and you're using a spell, meaning that you're using your spell attack modifier, which still benefits from your proficiency bonus.
For the tripping mechanic, they could just be knocked prone. Because tripping usually makes you fall down.
Around 2:50. This is why I have problems with Martial and Simple weapons as a means to choose proficiency. Flails for one are used by farmers and the most predominant flail used in Medieval times was by farmers called up to military service that brought their own flail. There were more specialized flails used, but flails in general where not used all that much. The problem I have with this is the flail could both fit the Simple or Martial category by definition. And you could say the same about the whip as most whips were used by herders.
Personally I would like to go back to 2nd Addition on this where each class got proficiency points to put towards what weapons they wanted (or category of weapons). It think it was way better for character style.
Yeah, anyone in my game who wants to use a whip or two can. Because whips are cool and I want to narrate and/or hear them narrate that stuff.
whips are useful to a hexblade warlock as a pact weapon, they use the charisma, have proficiency, is the only one handed weapon with reach so they can have a shield at the same time and the damage usually came from the curses more than the weapon itself
I think the suggestions in the video are very balanced and simple, which I love because simplicity and balance are the two most ideal features in a homebrew, in my opinion. And I suppose it's also solving an actual issue (a weapon having functionally zero appeal), which is another feature that is often taken for granted, lol. Looking at you, clumsy homebrews that sacrifice designer vision on the altar of self-importance, or rule of cool homebrews that mistake complexity for a virtue in of itself, instead of an intrinsically risky tool for achieving mechanical depth (the actual virtue).
At the risk of giving redundant praise, I just want to highlight how much I like adding the light property. While I wish the whip somehow also did more damage, it would definitely displace the shortsword's niche, whereas this homebrew adds tangible improvement without displacing any niches. I got goosebumps thinking about some edgy character with a shortsword and a whip, lol. The simple weapon homebrew is also really good, solving another major issue. I think I would generally favor the cat o' nine tails over the dagger, but the cat doesn't have the thrown property, so it doesn't obsolete the dagger's niche.
Speaking of niches, the whip being able to grapple a target from 10 feet away is a brand new niche that's really awesome! It's a good way to expand the widely ignored grapple mechanic, and actually kind of hard to abuse. A caster could theoretically grapple a target and blast it, but they'd have to have proficiency with martial weapons AND use an action to make an attack that could fail to hit. Since the grapple is automatically broken with an action, it's statistically inefficient and the combo will usually take too long to set up anyway. Martial classes with Extra Attack could attack with the offhand, but your options are limited. A shortsword puts you 5 feet away from the target (still nice to prone them with a reaction, though). Another whip will do less damage, but could also potentially let you grapple two opponents within 10 feet. The attacks could still miss, so it's not statistically busted from an action economy standpoint, assuming the creatures even care about moving, or that you won't need your hands for anything else. A hand crossbow could work, but you can't reload with a whip in your other hand. The best case scenario would be combining the hand crossbow with the Crossbow Expert feat, but I think we can agree that if that leads to a ton of abuse, the feat is more guilty than the whip homebrew. I'm just happy the whip could getting some attention.
The "grappling strike" is the most complex feature (complexity being a potential pitfall), but I think your version is well thought-out. Replacing the normal Athletics check is potentially very strong, but allowing the target to use an action to automatically succeed in breaking the grapple instead of using an action to attempt a skill contest is a good mitigating factor. You also may need a stipulation added to the grappling strike that, while logically implied, would be thorough: The grapple is broken if you drop the weapon or perform another attack with it.
The only part of this homebrew I'm lukewarm about is that the reaction mechanic is a bit of a word salad. The description says the target of the grapple must be medium or smaller, but later says that a target can be larger than you. I'd recommend changing the target of the grapple to be up to one size larger than you so that it's more consistent with the current grapple mechanics. Speaking of mechanics, I know you had the idea of grabbing items out of people's hands, but I think the reaction mechanic might be trying to be too many things at once. It might be more elegant to avoid the can of worms that is the disarm mechanic, since many DMs avoid it ("I pick up the enemy's Flametongue Longsword after they drop it" and vice versa), and focus on the grapple theme. Leave the ball in the court of DMs who use disarm. The reaction mechanic also says you are moving the target closer to you, but it doesn't specify how many feet. I assume creatures your size or larger are moved 5 feet, but if that wasn't the intention, you might need to reflavor that. I'd also remove the part about moving creatures smaller than you 10 feet, because it seems like additional complexity without purposeful depth. The edge case of wanting to move the target 10 feet instead of 5 or 0 feet is negligible. It's also ambiguous whether or not the smaller creatures are knocked prone (I imagine they are, since a yank up would still pull their legs from under them). Here's how I would word it:
As a reaction, you can attempt to knock a grappled creature off balance. The creature must a Strength saving throw with a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your STR or DEX modifier. On a failed save, the creature is moved up to 5 feet closer to you and is knocked prone.
Bless you if you read all that. I didn't wake up thinking I'd subscribe to someone over a whip homebrew, but your delicate approach makes me confident in your other analyses!
I think a grappling function should be added. It's quintessential Indiana Jones. How else are you supposed to swing across spike pits in dungeons?
Agreed!
I like to collaborate with my players if they want to have a "signature” weapon, if it makes sense for the character they can go for it, no matter the requirements, and we are very clear that I can re balance it later, and if they stick with it, I reward them with extra characteristic like magical enhancements or feat like abilities.
One thing i learned from some larping ive done in the past is a flail (& or whip) has the capability of wrapping around shields.
I haven't stated it out but something like a to +2 hit bonus against enemies with shields or just a statement that flexible weapons ignore armor from shields would go a long way.
Generally i think the flat +2 is better as it leaves room for more protection provided by larger or magic shields which would be less likely to allow an attack to wrap around.
Just thoughts 🤔
In the movie "Underworld" there is a guy which use steel whips and wear them around his shoulders.
I think grappling enemy with the whip should deal half damage instead of no damage.
Not a bad idea!
An easy fix for the whip could be to make it a light weapon for extra utility. It wouldn't render the shortsword or scimitar useless since the damage would be lower, although raising the whip damage to 1d6 could be a better way of getting people to use it more simply because it does more damage.
I'm loving these weapon series
In one of my campaigns I gave a player a magic whip which, if it was cracked well enough (20 or higher roll), in addition to its normal damage, would cast a mini thunderwave at the point of the tip!
Made a Paladin for a combat-focused game once, really wanted to use a whip to fit my character's personality but didn't want to be a frontliner with a d4 for damage. Asked if I could remove finesse and reach for a d8 and they said that was too strong. Asked the dm about trading the reach for a d6 and they said that was too strong. Literally a reskinned shortsword. This was alongside my party with a longbow rogue and fireball wizard who both got homebrew buffs (sneak attack multiple times a turn, no spell slots). It was like a 12-floor dungeon with each floor being one session. We made it halfway through the first floor in 6 hours. DM also rolled individual hit and damage rolls (one at a time, seperate rolls for hit and damage) for a mob of 20 goblins. That combat took half an hour and that's only because I jumped into the middle of the mob and used an aoe spell to fry them all on my first turn
Dang, they really told you that you couldn't use a rapier or a shortsword and call it a whip on your page, while they got to fireball and sneak attack everything. Dang.
Just got that book from kickstarter. Pretty good.
Kobold Press had something similar for weapons.
Whip Expertise
Gain proficiency with whips
When you perform a trip or grapple attack, you can also deal damage.
Whenever you use a whip, you can choose to deal Thunder Damage instead of Slashing.
I think another thing is it could be a deterrent like how they use whips to keep beasts at bay.
Adam Winrich (the guy on Conan) comes to the Bristol Renaissance Faire every year and I've seen him perform several times. Weird to see him come up in a youtube video because I didn't really know he was famous (or at least as famous as a whip expert can be).
I'd recommend looking into the historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) community for inspiration. They're an excellent source for all kinds of weapons and their practical applications. Plus, having access to people with practical weapons experience would help a lot when researching weapons and designing new homerbrew rules. It removes some of the guess work and could be a vital source for research. Additionally, it fills the gaps that these videos have been missing in my opinion.
I really think the whip can be significantly changed with these small changes:
• It's a simple weapon
• It allows a Grapple with Reach
Honestly a d4 Finesse Reach weapon is just rad. Just need rogues and casters to gain access.
Yeah. I would say a whip is frequently found in the hands of commoners in 5e verse; farmer is the most common profession.
I say STR and DEX Mod. They are already using a low damage weapon that can't benefit from powerful feats and giving up an attack. If they want to go deep, let them be good at it. Plus, it makes sense.
Yeah this was an oversight for sure
@Bob World Builder. great vid as always, I'v been looking at the whip for the past few days to a week and notis something to consider. Monks starting at Level 1 Get there Martial arts die witch is a d4 but becomes a D10 at 17th level this Die can be used to re-place a weopons normal damage Die, so a dagger uses a D4 but in a monks hand at 17th level is a D10. seconly at 2 level monks get the optinial class feature Dedicated weopon witch alows them to be able to use almost any weapon ( to put it simply ), the whip meets the requiaments for that class feature, and lastly at 5th they get stuning strike were the can stun a target ON A MELEE WEAPON ATTACK. Lastly take the dual wielder feat so we can dual wield weapons that arn't light and add the TWO WEAPON FIGHTING fighting style. this means at 17th level as a monk ( not including subclass, multiclassing, magic weapons/ gear ect ) we can stunning strike 3 targets once each or 1 target 3 times from 10+ feet away dealing on a normal hit 1D10 + ability modifier per attack. so asuming all 3 attacks hit thats a total of 45 points of damage and potentualy stunning strike 1-3 targets and if we crit its 75 points of damage. I know this isn't the most powerful thing in the game but agian we havent included thing like subclass and magic weapons and so on and being able to attack and stunning strike from 10 feet away minimen and so on is pretty good in my books especialy since this is just the start. P.S sorry for my spelling and this being so long
@DnD shorts could you make a crazy build with this
I think you don’t need to change it too much, but make a feat to have extra skills in it. Such as getting a +1 to damage, the trip/ grapple ability you talked about, and provoking opportunity attacks,(like in the Pole-arm master feet).
A lot of underused weapons could probably be buffed/fixed by a ___ master feat
3:15
Slashening 👍
The deadliest form of damage!!
I’d homebrew’d a Cat of Ninetails weapon for a Succubus variant earlier this year. Fun stuff.
It took me a few seconds to get the conan the barbarian joke. I'm ashamed. lol
where there is a whip there is a way: As a reaction you can whip a friendly creatur dealing d4+str or dex and giving them advantages on their next d20 roll
Brilliant! I I think those mechanics are spot on👍
I'd do a disadvantage touch attack to grapple/wrap and then opposed strength to pull them towards you or trip them. Anything more and you're looking at like called shots or something (you just want to grab their arm) which, I mean... just make it a double disadvantage... those things should be able to stack, IMO... Makes things so much simpler to do/referee
Touch attacks aren't really a thing in 5e, and jamming them in might require a lot of rulings as to what counts and what doesn't, and more importantly medium and heavy armor are (IMO) balanced around the fact that they don't exist.
Only time ive ever used a whip was when i made an indiana jones rogue/fighter/artificer and i convinced the DM to let me use the pole arm master feat with it
We're still talking about 1d4 damage so I'd like the disarming to be a bonus action, so you can keep your Reaction. Maybe, as a reaction, you could be able to catch the weapon then...
I would say that was more of a performance check than weapon proficiency display. To show proficiency, you would need to show accuracy, like putting out a cigarette from someone's mouth, or sparing with someone.
I always thought the whip had 15 foot reach and was surprised more people didn't use it... until I realized.
The whip is totally worth it for paladins and rogues (who manage to get proficiency with it). Distance smites and sneak attacks absolutely make up for the damage loss. It's usefulish on a Battlemaster, but that's iffy. Maybe paired with a weapon that does more damage? May as well just use a halberd, if you aren't using a shield.
I like the idea of a whip, but it's just not cool enough for me; that's why I homebrewed the spiked chain for my games: it's a martial melee weapon that deals 2d4 slashing damage on a hit, and it has the finesse, reach, and two-handed properties. Instead of dealing damage, you can attempt to either disarm or trip a creature when you hit with it, forcing the creature to make a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + proficiency bonus + STR or DEX modifier); creatures one size larger than you have advantage on the save, and creatures two or more sizes larger than you are immune to this effect. On a failed save, the creature either drops one item of your choice that it is holding and the item is pulled 5 feet closer to you, or it is knocked prone (decided when you make the attack). Classes that are proficient with the spiked chain include the Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Rogue, and Warlock.
It's definitely a good idea to add some active special ability to the whip. However, I can't really imagine that ability being grappling and pulling things/enemies. The reasoning for that is that a whip simply isn't capable of it, it's just a line with two open ends, only one end can be utilized, not to a great extent of fine movement at the end. To grapple something the whip/rope would have to turn a few laps around the object or the limb, which is somehow hard for me to imagine. As an alternative I think the whip could have a Disarm Opponent feature based on a DEX save and/or the whip could have a speed reducing attack. For the grappling, tripping and prone dropping abilities, a dedicated weapon like a Lasso can be introduced.
Having followed my thoughts I still want to emphasize that I love and appreciate the things you come up with as well.
Around an entire medium sized creature it would be hard as they would have to be close, or a really long whip. Indiana Jones used a No. 455 10 foot Bull whip. You would need about 4 to 5 feet of that to wrap a medium sized creature once. Not really doable as you thought. But limbs are much smaller in circumference, so doable. And yanking just one leg out from under a creature on the move would be enough to make them fall over. Or restricting the movement of their weapon arm, while not actually disarming them, would keep them from using it.
You could use the rules for shoving as the sane rules for pulling a weapon away from a creature so its a contested strength check from both partues and if you succeed then the weapon moves 5ft from them in a direction of your choice. choodinh
I think that feature would be great for bolas as well!
I love the idea but i think that the "grab an object" part sould take your interaction, even if you dont get the object in your hand, you cant pick it up after the attack.
Whit this you can make that special attack 1 per turn and only takes your interaction.
I don't know about a whip causing fear to humanoids or intelligent creatures more than a sword, but it could be very startling to low intelligence creatures perhaps. Not sure what mechanics would work around that and still would make it pretty situational though.