What is Hoarding Disorder? | Is it different than OCD and Autism?
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- This video answers the questions: What is Hoarding Disorder? How can Hoarding Disorder be differentiated from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD), and Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)?
Hoarding Disorder Criteria from DSM-5:
A: persistent difficulty discarding possessions, regardless of value
B: the difficulty we see with criterion A is due to a perceived need to save the items and to distress associated with discarding those items
C: the difficulty results in the accumulation of possessions that congest and clutter active living areas and substantially compromises their intended use. If living areas are uncluttered it’s only because of third-party intervention, like family members
D: clinically significant distress
E: not attributable to a medical condition like a brain injury
F: not explained by the symptoms of another mental disorder like OCD, MDD, schizophrenia, or autism
specifiers: with excessive acquisition, with good or fair insight, with poor insight, with absent insight/delusional beliefs
References:
Kyrios, M., Mogan, C., Moulding, R., Frost, R. O., Yap, K., & Fassnacht, D. B. (2018). The cognitive-behavioural model of hoarding disorder: Evidence from clinical and non‐clinical cohorts. Clinical Psychology & Psychotherapy, 25(2), 311-321. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Moulding, R., Nedeljkovic, M., Kyrios, M., Osborne, D., & Mogan, C. (2017). Short‐term cognitive-behavioural group treatment for hoarding disorder: A naturalistic treatment outcome study. Clinical Psychology & Psychotherapy, 24(1), 235-244. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Dozier, M. E., Porter, B., & Ayers, C. R. (2016). Age of onset and progression of hoarding symptoms in older adults with hoarding disorder. Aging & Mental Health, 20(7), 736-742. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Raines, A. M., Oglesby, M. E., Allan, N. P., Short, N. A., & Schmidt, N. B. (2016). Understanding DSM-5 Hoarding Disorder: A Triple Vulnerability Model. Psychiatry, 79(2), 120-129.
DOBRIAN, J. (2015). HOARDING DISORDER: The TEN TON PROBLEM & THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. Journal of Property Management, 17-21.
Pertusa, A., Bejerot, S., Eriksson, J., Fernández de la Cruz, L., Bonde, S., Russell, A., & Mataix-Cols, D. (2012). Do patients with hoarding disorder have autistic traits? Depression And Anxiety, 29(3), 210-218. doi-org.mylibrary.wilmu.edu/1...
Behaviour Research and Therapy 44 (2006) 1503-1512Shorter communicationThe hoarding dimension of OCD: Psychological comorbidityand the five-factor personality modelV. Holland LaSalle-Riccia,b,, Diane B. Arnkoffa, Carol R. Glassa,Sarah A. Crawleya,b, Jonne G. Ronquilloa,b, Dennis L. Murphyb
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I had this with my mother for years. Dear God it was a constant source of argument since she lived with me.she would verbally accuse me of being all manner of evil. At 81 she went in to nursing home care. The freedom I felt was unbelievable. Tragic waste .
@Vincent Verona That is the way to handle it. Treat them like children, because that is how they act.
This stuff runs in my family like crazy. I'm glad your introduction to it is accurate and non-sensationalized.
Runs in my family, too. It's been a lifelong effort to manage my impulses to accumulate and hang on to stuff.
My mother did not have it until she had a frontal lobe brain tumor. My daughter & I have it without a brain tumor.
one of my Elder Brothers,.....
@@NonnysHouse Same, it's like staving-off a forest fire.
I am a sentimental hoarder. My husband died at 53 and I kept his stuff and really was shopping a lot. I have decided to declutter. Thousands of pictures, baby clothes, a box of school work for every year for 4 kids, (52 boxes) so I just started tossing things. I feel better, but furniture and antiques are harder to donate.. I think depression and traumatic loss increased my hoarding, now I take pictures of things I am getting rid of and I feel better. Dr. Grande is awesome!!
Yes pictures are a good method
I'm sorry for your loss. Watch Marie Kondo "Tidying Up" videos. She has a very strategic approach: 1 Declutter BEFORE organizing. 2 Take photos of your spaces before you begin. 3 Start the tidying up process with clothes first. 4 Hold each item in your hands, and ask yourself, "Does this item bring me joy?" 5 Before getting rid of an item, hold it and say, "Thank you" 6 Fold clothes the Marie Kondo way. 7 Tidy sentimental items last. 8. Know that it will look worse before it looks better. She says to do sentimental items last because they will really take a lot of time while you can discard books, clothes and kitchen items much more quickly and without giving them all too much thought.
I thought I was saving all my kids memories but when they came to get their things they tossed about 99% of it, lol.. I was keeping all this stuff for 30 years and they didn’t want it. I am free of their boxes:-)
Debbie Schultz
So True!
It’s kinda funny that we innocently assume that others think or see things the same way, lol. What a load off your shoulders 👍 😅 Cheers 🥂
my grandma has this problem. People give her stuff all the time because she can't afford a lot but then she doesn't throw stuff away. I think trauma is a factor
My mother got her Harding from my grandmother, they live through the depression and so they feel the need to hang on to everything thinking they might lose it at any time
@@ladymopar2024 generational making do because it might become desperate again
Yeah trauma and complicated grief.
Thank you! My husband has this and it's highly annoying. I can throw nothing away unless it's in his absence. He hoards things he buys in charity shops, electronic items that are not working, plastic containers and glass jars. Clutters everywhere. 🙈 I had to move out of his room because of all the trash.
Same here. We met a friend for lunch and went to a charity thrift store after as I had items to donate. There were some very discolored frying pans that really should have been thrown out. My husband pitched a fit and said he was going to use those pans for camping which never happens. My friend said she thought I was exaggerating when I said he was a hoarder and he was being ridiculous It is always an argument and you never get any thanks for cleaning out clutter.
If you ever want to do a video about the trauma and other psychological implications that entail from having and living with a parent who had hoarding disorder then I'd love to share my own experience with you! My childhood was fairly messed up but I believe a huge part of feeling like an outsider, embarrassment and even shame from a young age was due to the state of the home I grew up in, and ultimately not having any control over it. Please feel free to get in touch if you'd like to discuss anything around this subject :)
The OCD in hoarding is in that they don't like the stuff being moved from the location that they first put it. If you move anything, they are distressed and put it back in it's correct position. The stuff is the center of their lives, but they don't seem to need to organize it or take care of it, it just is and needs to be. Their stuff somehow takes on an emotional connection.
Dear Dr. Grande: but is it hoarding if I just don't go through my stuff because I'm too busy watching scientifically informed insider looks at mental health topics online?
We've all just been busted. Hoarders.........all of us.
🤣 that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it 🤣
hoarding mental health knowledge
Indeed!
shift watching hoarders or obsessive compulsive cleaners, it motivates me to clean and declutter
I have watched several episodes of hoarders and this is a very sad disorder. I felt that the show was exploiting these poor people. But your analysis Dr Grande is much appreciated. I've always found this topic to be interesting so thanks for the breakdown!❤
As a hoarder, I am always envious of those people on the show. I would love to get all that free help! It is very, very hard to change alone. But help is very expensive.
I had to clean up someone's desk at work who may have had hoarding disorder. I found a sandwich in an envelope, inside a bigger envelope, inside an even bigger envelope etc etc 6 envelopes up allong with years of newspapers and real estate brochures. It was amusing when I was younger but now it's heartbreaking to think about.
I found something similar when I moved into a new place. Left over food dishes up on the closet shelf. Who stores food or used dishes in the cloths closet? I think they had a drug problem. Needless to say; I felt much better after the place got a thorough deep cleaning.
@@kathryncarter6143 Not too familiar with 'meth' but I've seen all of Breaking Bad and I dont think you're wrong to assume that it was some sort of drug!
Kathryn Carter people with eating disorders will also sometimes display this behavior.
After having been homeless I had a very hard time throwing anything away. After losing so much that I valued it became hard to tell what had value. When my income stabilized and I became able to purchase what I needed, it seemed easier to throw away items of marginal value, like old clothes or plastic containers. But for a while there, it was very hard to discard anything at all.
My mother, who had been an excellent housekeeper for most of her life, began hoarding after her partner died -- they'd been moderate hoarders together but she no longer had the income to maintain outbuildings and her hoard took over her new, smaller house. My brother also hoarded and when he moved in with her, he hoarded vehicles. By the time she died and the house was foreclosed upon, it had been destroyed...
My mom's a hoarder. She hoards magazines newspapers cookbooks and I mean a hell of a lot of cookbooks and cooking instruments. Despite the fact that she doesn't cook at all. The spare bedroom is filled with garbage bags full of cookbooks and magazines. So many that you can't get the door open to the spare bedroom without SLAMMING your body into the door to push it open. The living room is covered in stacks and stacks of newspapers. You have to climb over the newspapers to get to the other side of the living room to sit on the couch which is also covered in newspapers.
Several times when I was little my Grandmother would clean out our house completely while we were on vacation. It was always wonderful when we got back from vacation to see a clean home. it took about 2 months for it to go back to absolute hell again.
My mom is married. My dad just kind of puts up with it. My dad doesn't hoard. He has a substantial collection of CDs & records, one small closet completely full of movies, A limited amount of clothing, and a couple stacks of video games. That's the extent of his collecting.
Also my mom was diagnosed bipolar/OCD, back in 2010.
You know you watch too many Dr.Grande videos when your actual family doctor calls and you refer to them as “Dr.Grande”
lol Love this comment. ❤
Aaah.....lol 😁
He is so wise ! Addictive-!!!!’
000ops
Blake Almodovar I call my doctors by their Christian ( first) names. ONLY Todd Grande do I address as “ Doctor” Grande
In my grandmother's case, I think her hoarding disorder was caused by living thru the great depression.
My grandmother had some hoarding tendencies, her house was fairly clean but she would always hold on to half-eaten food, fast food containers and cups, napkins, plastic forks and stuff like that. Her basement was filled with old stuff that had accumulated through the years. Now even in her retirement home she holds all the food she doesn't eat and tries to give it to us when we visit.
I always thought that she was like this because of her growing up in the Great Depression (she was born in 1930). I wonder if childhood poverty has anything to do with Hoarding Disorder?
I know that trauma can cause hoarding like a coping mechanism, when they lose someone or feel empty they start to hold on to physical items to fill that void.
Interesting video as always Dr. Grande!
My grandma was also in poverty growing up and she tends to collect/never throw away. She gets very sentimental
It can be linked i think.
My grandmother was like that too. It's very common in people of that generation. It's called the depression mentality.
Dr Grande you are always point on.I love your analysis and always seem to agree. My husband of 30 years who happens to be a garbage truck driver is constantly bringing things home with the statement that he is going to repair said item and make money when he sells refirbished/repaired item and make us money which by the way never happens. I threw a pineapple lamp away 3 times and he dug it back out of our trash 3 times.maddening!!! We currently have a collection of headless Elvis decantures that he swears he is going to rehab. He lost his mother at a very early age and i think he connect with items in an effort to connect with her in some way. Thoughts?
BTW I live in Delaware too!
My mom buys dozens and dozens of clothing items from QVC and catalogs, and let them pile up around her house without opening. She always justifies and deflects and won't stop. It's a waste of thousands of dollars and there isn't any way we can see to stop it. I suggested to my dad that he get a separate bank account, as he earns 90%of the money, and she overheard me and physically assaulted me. Seriously. This sounds trashy, but both my parents are university grads and live in a good neighborhood.
Once I had to go to Consumer Credit Counseling. One of the first signs of someone who spends too much is a disorganized wallet full of credit card receipts! Maybe you can entice your mom to save up for a cruise or a great vacation instead of blowing all that cash on nonsense she doesn't need. She just sounds bored and gets a little pop of excitement from buying. So did I but now I shop in stores where I can return it all a week later, tags still on.
@@firehorse9996 that's a good coping strategy, being able to return.
@@firehorse9996 interesting - I've bought stuff online - sometimes spent hours looking for something - but then I've been able to leave items in the basket and even empty the basket without buying anything. I guess it's a way to handle the compulsion to buy. It's the sensation of having something new or something you like - gives one a rush I guess. But happy to be able to empty the basket at the end. I've done it in stores too - rushed in browsed, filled my basket - then at the end I hang all the stuff on a rail and go through them asking - do I really need this? Is this what I came in for? More often I've gone to the store for something completely different and don't get what I went in for. However, just the act of popping the items back on a rail (or shelf) and asking do I need this, or is this what I came for helps me reassess what I'm doing. It allows me to put back usually everything I've picked up in that rush moment. If I did not do this I'd be bankrupt by now!
My last hoarding habit to conquer is Kindle and physical notebooks!🤦🤷
My stepmother does THE SAME EXACT THING! Orders hundreds and hundreds-thus thousands of dollars worth of junk from QVC and doesn't bother opening the boxes and just stashes it wherever she can. She's a smart lady and always had a very good job. But it doesn't seem like it's ever going to stop.
QVC is like crack to tired women.
Another informative and scary video.
My mother is a hoarder and it’s causing a multitude of problems.
So much so that she may get evicted from her apartment.
Wish me luck y’all.
Best wishes to you and blessing on your mother that she may come to her senses before she loses it all. :(
I know how it feels.
I am here if you feel like you have nobody to reach out to. Just tell me and we can get in contact through social media where I am also anonymous. Remember you are strong and brave. Remember you are not your mother. Lots of love.
I am 65. My friend of 40 years is 81. She was able to afford on a limited Social Security amount, a nice apartment for seniors, including her meals. On two occasions her apartment manager, called her daughter who lives in a far away state and explained that her mother was a hoarder with eight cats. The daughter flew to her mother’s town while her mother was in the hospital, and got rid of a certain percentage of her hoard in her apartment and storage. My friend did not speak with her daughter again after that. Just recently after calling my friend as I do every few months found out, she was living in her car for 30 days . Her daughter warned her that the apartment was going to evict her if she didn’t clean up her apartment. The daughter went to her apartment again and among the several cats found a deceased cat under the bed. My friend said that she didn’t know where she was going to bury the cat yet so she left it there..
She was evicted & is traveling round in her van with her remaining cat seeing the sites. She drove to my home 200 miles away and stayed for two days. I could see that her memory was getting very poor and I tried her to help her get on Medicaid. She filled out the paperwork. I have a feeling she will not follow up next month with it. I have no longer for my mental health going to try to help her. My opinion this is the way she wants to live. I do not need the depression that I endured for about four days after she left after her visit. Seeing her van loaded with items to the ceiling, looks like she loaded it with a pitchfork. Very sad. But there’s nothing that anyone can do to help her.
I found out a neighbor had this. Omg, this house was in horrid shape, no plumbing, bills paper everywhere, stairs blocked, bathrooms unusable. It was disgusting and i tried to help and she got so angry, like nothing was wrong. I always knew there was a problem....but the severity really stunned me because she was extremely critical of other people.
I have a female neighbor whose house is practically in my lap.
She is VERY critical of me and all the other neighbors. Before she admitted she was a hoarder I had figured it out. ( from what she told me) and the fact I’ve never seen any lights on at night. The “ hoard” prob prevents her from going into certain rooms and obscures her bedroom light.
Then one day she had me visit with her in her back yard where I could see her entrance way. It was filthy. But she is ALWAYS obsessed about our large Oak tree ( the limbs she thinks need to be removed yet they don’t)
She’s an admitted day- long drinker and almost impossible to get along with. One day she used the bathroom in my house and said our house was “ immaculate” compared to hers. I can’t handle her loud voice and constant arguing with her yard workers.
Seems in her case her hoarding has a comorbidity with OCD. I get along fine with the others on my block, but she does not.
She is a thorn in my side and I haven’t spoken to her in around 3 weeks.
@@user-bw2zt5jd9ushe probably wants you to cut the tree limbs so she can go into your trash and take them for herself to hoard them lol
A great breakdown of this interesting disorder
No comment on the fear of death? I've watched a few of these hoarders shows out of morbid curiousity and they routinely made a note that the subject of the episode started hoarding after the loss of a loved one. I pair that with my own self-knowledge and I reckon this must be a consistent factor. Not that bereavement causes hoarding, but that it's a trigger for someone predisposed to it
I believe the factors that Dr. Grande dismissed regarding poverty are , in fact, relevant. I believe that I am a minor hoarder. The main level of this house as about an average amount of stuff but the basement is filled to capacity with stuff. I do not hoard old food, pets, magazines or plastic containers and am not a collector. Poverty can affect your amount of free time, your energy and your perceived ability to be able to just throw out or donate things. I grew up in an affluent family but of people who had been poor and they were mild hoarders, never throwing anything useful out, always selling or donating good stuff. I did learn from them always to donate good things because "someone could use them." Once I started to live on a fixed income because I am a widow who cares for an adult child with special needs my hoarding increased, not from trauma but from low income. At one time my garage and basement stored 4 washers and dryers and one refrigerator that relatives gave me when they moved and couldn't take theirs but in the course of 10 years I had to use everyone of them. This would have saved me at least $2000+ in replacement costs, more than a month of income. I wish I had more now because I just replaced a washing machine for $600. When you don't have money you look at stuff differently. When my sister in law offered me a set of china that she got from a neighbor I tried to give it away but no family wanted it. I went to check it's value. It is worth a few hundred dollars so down in the basement it will go after I take a picture for an ebay listing. I could have donated it but I need the money. I hoard all of my old clothes that are a size smaller. I have lost weight before and needed that size again if only for a year or two. People say just buy some new clothes when you loose weight. Clothes are expensive and I have neither the time nor the money to shop for a new wardrobe. My current wardrobe is probably a fraction of most people's. I hoard the old push mower because who knows when the riding mower will break down again and I may not have a couple thousand to replace it and might need to mow an 1 1/3 acres for a few years again with a push mower. If someone offered me a second working push mower I might even accept that in case the old push mower goes and I have to replace it that one for a couple of hundred. Low income can be a factor for more reasons than just trauma. I don't believe that I have suffered from much trauma, just lack of time and money. If you don't have the cash how do your afford to hire the organizational coach or the therapist or even the take out food that might save you an hour or so of cooking and clean up that might gain you some time for dealing with your hoard?
I am very similar to you in everything you say but I do have enough money and am lucky enough to not be interested in hoarding large or costly things (except older furniture that I get from throw outs!)
Our house is so full, cluttered, and uncleaned, that I was relieved to see this and know that I'm not a hoarder. My husband is descended from them... But is aware of that and works to avoid it. Income can certainly be a factor. There are absolutely hoarders who are very wealthy, and it's probably easy to fall into if you can afford to keep it from being too obvious and too much of a problem. But people from much, much lower incomes are susceptible because yeah, the stuff could be useful. You might need that thing, or someone else might. It's really hard to just pitch things someone could use, if you've been in the position of needing things, or if you've benefited from other people going, "I don't need this, can you use it?" And you're grateful and want to be able to do that for someone else.
Your doing what works best for you and it's saving alot of money..
There's a great program and/or podcasts called "It's All Clutter" run by Jes Marcy. The Bootcamps will start again in January and you choose how much you want to pay. It's a great group of people and completely non-judgmental rather very supportive. I'll be doing my 4th Bootcamp in January and hope to see you there.
@@territimmerman140 That sounds very interesting. I will check that out! As far the shows that are on TV I prefer the British one with the doctor, Stelios, even though he is always speaking about trauma to A&E's hoarders because not every hoarder they feature is the most extreme to be found and because they go about it a bit more gradually and more positively. They help the hoarders discover their own solutions and encourage them. Most of them truly want to improve their living conditions. A&E is often looking just for shock value.
Tried to watch a TV program about hoarders, but couldn't get past a couple of episodes. I myself am definitely on the minimalist spectrum. But my heart goes out to the people who struggle with this illness. Thank you, Dr Grande.
"Some of the characteristics associated with hoarding disorder: Perfectionism, avoidance, being disorganized, procrastinating, being highly distractible and indecisive."
I've been doing a lot of personal research about ADHD, and apparently there is a strong link between hoarding behavior and ADHD. Which seems to match well with the characteristics listed by Dr. Grande.
Some of the characteristics seem to match someone with executive functioning problems; like those seen in people ADHD.
True, there's a high degree of comorbidity as mentioned in pretty much every other video on the subject.
I have had some hoarder patients. These have been highly intelligent people who have been somewhat successful in external lives. They often appear much younger than their chronological age.
Me, to a T
Very curious about the appearing younger than actual age part, what would be the connection?
@@mgparis Because they do not worry about anything. They do not worry about bills, unsanitary living conditions, health or if they are going to be put out.
@@saran.4001 That's a good theory. I think that's definitely true for some of them, but not all are in denial, and seem to feel deep shame, anxiety and guilt about their condition, for instance how it affects their loved ones....
@@mgparis Not the ones i have known, personally, and not the ones on the Hoarder's show. They are only anxious about getting their stuff taken and put junk and trash above their loved ones.
Maybe the hording is done to fulfill a void. It might be a coping mechanism for loneliness or a lack of security.
I bet hoardings all of the above, thanks! I learned something new, congrats.
Like any addiction people use to manage themselves, I think hoarding behavior somehow soothes the hoarder.
I know people who are hoarders, it's stressful to deal with....I want to start cleaning and throwing things out but it probably wouldn't be a good idea on my part..because sometimes they have tempers...good video Dr.
They will fight you until their dying breath to avoid getting rid of the smallest thing. It is very hard.
It’s a bad idea not because they have tempers - it’s a bad idea because it’s unhelpful. Like addicts, THEY have to want help, and they have to be the ones to take the concrete steps.
That’s why the therapists on Hoarders protect the hoarder’s sense of agency by letting them veto throwaways, and gives the hoarder the emotional and cognitive decision-making tools to select throwaway items.
@Liza Tanzawa I toss things away slowly when my husband is out. I've even resorted to burning the clutter because IF he finds out I've thrown out his stuff he becomes enraged. I cannot leave a trace! I had to move out of his room it's so full of trash.
It's not a good idea at all they will make your life miserable. You see it is trash but they have an emotional bond to a lot of things for whatever reason, my sister is a hoarder., she's currently in therapy bet her Tendencies still are there
You are right. My family don’t throw anything out that I could know about or see because they know I will raid the bin to see if there is anything useful in it. I don’t see a problem with this but apparently everyone else does!!! I compromise with my family and we are all happy... I currently have switched to collecting plants that people throw out or grow wild that are not native. I still like boxes and glass jars but raiding garbage throw outs really makes my day!
My mom has BPD and hoarding (which derives from OCD according to a psychologist). I grew up all my life having to hide this from everyone else. When anybody showed up at our apartment and rang the bell, we had to become silent and pretend we weren't there. I no longer live with her and I am kinda worried about her because it's getting worse, but I feel so relieved at the same time. There were whole rooms that we couldn't use, and nothing had its place. It was complete chaos. Becoming organized is being quite a journey for me. An ex-boyfriend used to believe my mom was autistic because of her lack of empathy, her lack of understanding of irony and her awkwardness at times. Once, my uncle told her that one of his friends had died in a car accident and she asked what colour the car was. Could she have Asperger's, BPD aaand OCD at the same time, manifested in hoarding and other OCD behaviors???
I am a mess myself, btw. I am currently trying to move on with my life, going to therapy once a week, gathering info during ALL MY FREE TIME, somehow managing to keep my partner and three friendships... I just cannot find the motivation to study for my law exams in January with all this being in my mind... I don't even know how I've been passing other exams up to this point. I often feel my life is a dream. I am like freaking Harry Potter (but female). Grew up in a fucked up family but I am lucky as hell and I've always found people outside of my family who have supported me. Yet, the freaking dementors threaten with eating my soul out and I tend to withdraw, only to be reminded by others that I have to fight again and again.
I’ve been hoarding Dr Grande videos in my brain.
It would be really interesting to hear Dr. Grande's insight on holding on to the items of someone who has passed away.
I'm in my 50s and have kept my children's father's things for nearly 15 years
I have several big boxes of my father's belongings such as clothes etc and I could never let go of them. He died when I was 6 so I've held onto them for a while
@@user-pl4yq1oc1y our children are all grown up and wearing their dad’s things now. It felt a bit strange hanging them back out on the clothesline at first. I think it’s okay to keep items close by and near and dear, as long as it doesn’t get out of control. I’m really sorry to hear about your dear dad X
i used to know someone with ocd + hoarding behaviors... they really took up a huge amount of her brain power, they were always going in the back of her mind.... i hope she's gotten more help now. i understand it a bit more now... thank you for the insight
I would like to see a comparison of hoarders (as a pejorative epithet) and preppers. For example, during the early months of the pandemic, many people went out and bought as much toilet paper and hand sanitizer as would fit in their car, while another group of people already had an abundance of those items (and more) stored away, which they had purchased over time when those items were abundant. Both then the panic buyer and the preper were labeled hoarders. While both types of person were locked down on, the preper generally did not participate in panic buying having purchased their stockpile of supplies over years during times of plenty. I think the general public's disdain for preppers being prepared was unjustified and ludicrous.
I think it was legitimate....people took more than they could use in multiple lifetimes and left many people without.
If you concern is they have a mental illness and should not be judged I can get with that. If you think the preppers were correct in the excess I will have to disagree
I lost my husband and my father a year ago. They died within a week of each other. Both were abusive.
Ever since then, I have become a hoarder and I am seeing a therapist. There's no improvement yet, but I realize that it will take time. I was not permitted to cry as a child (I'm female) nor as an adult. I didn't cry at any of my family's funerals, nor have I ever cried at any funeral. My father was hard on me because I was supposed to be a boy; so, he taught me how to be a man. I am not transgender. I like my femininity. I enjoy when men are chivalrous. But I don't, can't, cry. I suppose that I hoard because I can't cry or grieve. It concerns me that a lot of parents are actively teaching their children about gender fluidity. Believe me: if a child is raised in a gender opposite or gender fluid this causes a great deal of confusion and angst in the child.
Best wishes
@@rhobot75 Thank you so much! I actually bought her book last month. I have yet to get started, though. My therapist said that it will take time for me to just start grieving and then getting on with my life.
I wish you the best in life for taking out your time to reply to my comment, giving me such helpful advice. ❤
@@2manybooks2littletime25 You are welcome! .. I try to take comfort in that notion that grieving is a little like that picture on the wall you can't stop staring at, can't touch it, and then one day you can walk by without looking but you know it's there, and another you can without a lot of thought move it soemwhere fresh, and another day, you might find, I might find, it's okay to put it into another frame or give it away to a close relation or even store it away for a few months with other treasured mementos. It will happen in time. One day at a time is the way to go.
@@rhobot75 You are a wonderful human being! 😊
"Actively teaching about gender fluidity" isn't the same as forcing a different gender identity on a child who doesn't wish for that identity.
Another really thoughtful and interesting video. Both my parents have hoarding tendencies, especially my father; there tends to be hoarding on his side of the family. I'm autistic but fall into your definition of a collector. Perhaps in opposition to my parents, I like a Zen like atmosphere with very little clutter; it feels good to throw things out or give things away.
Being poor and deprived, as a child can cause hoarding or compulsive shopping, when one has money in adulthood.
Wilma Washington that is just the excuse they use 😂
Val Jean....COLD
I believe compulsive shopping is different to hoarding. Most hoarders don’t hoard new things or expensive things..
I once worked with a woman who hoarded food in her office desk drawers, usually very strong smelling garlic sausage. When I started there I thought other staff were just being nasty about her when they told me I should hide my lunch or she'd steal it, but it was true. She also shoplilfted expensive items from classy shops and took them back for a refund (you could get away with that without a receipt back then.) Then I found out she was a Holocaust survivor who had lost all her family in the camps and nearly starved to death herself. She was in fact quite fat, but obviously afraid of starving again.
I heard a story about an elderly woman with a severe hoarding disorder (as evidenced by her small house being packed to the rafters with STUFF). Her two brothers, who were at their wits ends were able to persuade her to take a vacation-which they paid for. The brothers owned a contracting business and went in with heavy equipment (during her absence), dug a big hole and buried her house in the ground!! Sadly, I never heard how she reacted to that.
my friend's mother was a hoarder of newspapers, magazines and books. the newspapers and magazines would be stacked to the ceiling along every wall. the books would be laying in the middle of every room in a line leading to another room. each book leaning up on another. we had to be very careful not to break the chain
Wow thank you very much. My sister is a hoarder, people have the misconception that they are slobs. My sister would give the shirt off her back for you. We got her out of one situation just told her to take a suitcase and all her paperwork and moved her into new place. My niece lives with her to keep her in check. She has gone to a therapist to change things. She's been a harder since she was a teenager. She's the most kind person you'd ever want to meet. She has cut way back on her hoarding but she still finds ways forget stuff. She had a really rough life and just recently lost her husband.
I'm glad you said not collecting things I always tell everybody I'm in jewelry hoarder but I do wear everything I have and if it hasn't been worn I will give them as Christmas presents or birthday gifts :-) my also collect diecast cars, but I have so many of them but I give them to the kids around the neighborhood LOL
I did some excessive acquisition of wardrobe items, through online shopping, during my two-year-plus COVID lockdown, to fight the boredom and loneliness (I have high-risk medical factors, so couldn’t go in public places). This stopped when I could resume my normal life, but now I have too many clothes and accessories for my available space as well as credit card debt to deal with. I try not to beat myself up too much for this lapse, it did give me something to look forward to, punctuate my endless days, and give me pleasure when it seemed that an endless life of boredom and isolation stretched out before me. I’m going to be very careful that it doesn’t become a habit again, though. My beloved Mom just died two months ago, and I didn’t react to the grief this way, so I think this bad retail therapy habit was nipped in the bud.
My mom grew up in a really poor village in slovakia. She was a horder, but still colletcs all kinds of containers to store food in and give it away. I think horders just have this big fear inside them and think that 1 day these items might become usefull, even though most of the times its not the case. Its like rather carrying a gun and not needing it than needing a gun and not having one.
My mum's life is ruled / controlled by her OCD. She's had it for over 40 years. It's extreme.
I was diagnosed with ocd and I used to hoard. I had every piece of paper I had ever gotten in my basement and it took up many boxes in there and my family made me throw it all away. I even had boxes of unopened mail from years before and any card or flyer or newspaper or school paper that I had ever held. I went through horrible trauma throwing it all away but I went on meds and now I don't even have symptoms (years later).
I definitely have hoarding tendencies. Back when I was more financially stable, it manifested as an addiction to shopping. Now that I struggle more financially, I save things like cardboard, paper, and even lint from the dryer in case I need emergency kindling one day... Some people humor me... Of course, others - don't.
And Epstein didn't kill himself.
Lint from the dryer?..Wow!
@@jillellen2631 I've since dropped the dryer lint habit, but still collect everything else that's flammable. Winter is coming.
@@korinajordan7819 Oh dear, I'm so sorry. I do you hope you can get some kind of therapy for this. Good luck and my thoughts are with you.
@@jillellen2631 You are sweet, but I'm ok. I don't have a garage full of the stuff or anything. lol!
At least you don't hoard QAnon posts printed on paper like my uncle.
Do you ever think that at a certain point, all these mental problems are not different disorders, but are actually just different symptoms and manifestations of the same problem?
Melissa0774 yep it's called attachment trauma...
Yes!
Yes !!
POVERTY !!
No because some will not have certain symptoms at all,then other illnesses .
Decades ago my aunt helped an older woman in her church who’s house was piled up to the ceiling with newspapers and other stuff. They filled multiple huge dumpsters with the clutter. I have had too much lawn equipment, parts, engines and a messy bedroom. In December 2012 my Doctor said Boyd I think that you have Lyme disease, let’s start testing. My rented pole barn storage was so full at times that I couldn’t step on the floor anywhere. I have since been getting rid of a lot of stuff and projects. I feel good getting rid of things and being able to see more of the floor.
Very interesting! I had the misfortune of marrying a hoarder. I didn't know it until after we married since he had only lived a short time in his residence. I spent years reorganizing his things. What a waste! He dumpster dived to keep things messy and confused. Dont do what I did!! 😒
My husband was ok with me but I promised him I would not clutter his living spaces.
Yes absolutely it's obsessive and compulsive to hoard stuff. You're very smart in your work and you have a great shirt collection too!
ALL I KNOW IS IM AS SICK AS THE DAY IS LONG AND I GOT A REAL MESS HEAR AND I SURE LIKE LISTENING TO YOU YOUR ONE HECK OF A DOCTOR I FEEL BETTER ALREADY I WISH I WOULD HAVE BUMPED INTO YOU 40 YEARS AGO STAY COOL
My mom was a hoarder and I suffered from OCD, because of my environment I’m sure. I remember walking over clothes growing up, it was horrible!!!!!!
Oh my goodness, that sounds like my dad. I’ve kind of thought of it before but now I know!
I have the acquisition hoarding. I'm also diagnosed with major depressive disorder, general anxiety disorder, panic disorder. I know it started in childhood. It comes and goes.
I'm 57 and hoarding again. Abusive marriage, breast cancer, nasty divorce, and the untimely death of my father have all contributed to this recent and ongoing aquisition of things. And I'm in debt again. Going to a therapist seems scary. But I know I must do it.
Poverty and poor self-care are factors in this disordered (pun intended) behavior. A person who tends to believe they don't deserve to live in a clean house/apt. is likely to have been subjected to early childhood trauma.
Exactly. My sister has been depressed all of her life. I agree with your statement.
Kevin Hornbuckle Yes, I agree.
That maybe, my sister is a hoarder she is so outgoing so friendly will give you the shirt off her back. I think her stems from being picked on in school and bullied in school. When she got married her husband had major medical problems and she felt very overwhelmed. She is in therapy now I'm so glad cuz she is a great person
Poverty definitely a factor, also bereavement, trauma, I suspect a particular combination of the se. But again, you have to rule out physical probs first.
Wow its like you touched something in my head, thats what I feel sometimes
Thanks for the video Dr. G. My mom and dad are and were hoarders. I find myself throwing away so much I think its cuz of the way I grew up. My mom kept magazines and newspapers boxes , made our house look very dirty. Besides how my mom and dad treated me I never would bring friends over because of the mess and the dynamics of behavoir.
I'm the same way.
When in HS a guy nearby seemed to hoard newspapers. I do believe it was intentional. However he was also a survivor of the great depression. It may have started as a way to help provide more insulation to his already dilapidated house. The thing that really tipped the scale was the paths in the house were so small he resorted to sleeping in the trunk of his car. We often wondered if it was also in effort to avoid the rats at night.
I also believe much hoarding also happens when alone because it acts as a filler to compensate for intense feeling of loneliness. It also gives the person something to do when they feel they have nothing.
Been a hoarder on and off most of my life. At first it was mostly saving paper and then it changed to finding things to bring home. Its mostly stuff that needs some kind of minor repair, except I don't have the time or money to fix any of it. My hoarding is mild compared to the TV shows, but still causes problems for me. All my closets are full of finds, so I have nowhere to put my clothes except in piles on chairs. I tell people I've been folding laundry to excuse all the clothes and linens piled around. No one knows whats jammed into the closets. I don't even know anymore.
How is 2020 affecting people teetering on the brink of hoarding? I could see where overbuying might happen in lockdown.
That’s definitely what happened to me. I started working at home, got anxious and lonely, plus got a promotion. So I started ordering a lot of stuff on Amazon. I even started hoarding food.
From watching some of my close relatives it seems that their hoarding has to do with poverty in childhood, past trauma and having ADD. The latter makes procrastination a problem. So while they know they should get rid of some excess stuff, they put it off, the mess grows and then the project seems more and more difficult, so they put it off even more.
I spent 4 to 5 hours every week for two years helping a loved one declutter the excess clothes and household goods that left only paths through rooms. She donated lots, her house looked decent again and she told me she didn’t need my help to finish. When I visited her a few months later, new stuff had accumulated! So follow Dr. Grande’s advice, don’t waste your time helping a hoarder unless they have received therapy! I wish I had those hours back.
I still have a vintage pair of earth shoes,thinking I need an intervention! LOL
Whenever I watch that show I clean until my house looks decent again! Looks like it’s time to watch some episodes now actually 😬😬😂
Truth
Haha 😆
5:52 the way you described accumulating objects really struck a chord with me. i've always been bad at keeping house but it got out of hand for several years following a traumatic experience. i can't say for sure that was the one and only thing causing this behaviour as i also showed symptoms associated with the onset of bipolar or a severe depression. at the time, i'd started walking several hours a day and almost never came home empty-handed. common items were groceries i didn't need, things i just found on the ground (garbage) or in the woods (literally sticks, rocks, bones, shells or nests) and clothing that often didn't even fit.
thankfully i now have control over my environment and am so glad to enjoy a clean, organized living space.
You just described my life more or less. Different diagnoses. Set off by a deeply traumatic event.
I'm not recovered yet though 😔
I really like the way these episodes are presented. Nicely linear and very interesting.
Great video and discussion on a very difficult topic, Dr. Grande! I have "collector" tendencies which I have to keep in check. I came from a family where an old, unused item was "going to be worth something someday!" So a lot of things were stored for that "someday," which never came. I'm currently watching a "60-something" friend sink deeper into hoarding -- several years' worth of "collecting" has filled multiple spaces on their property and is now encroaching dangerously on their living space. It's really heartbreaking, but there's nothing I can do as they've become "stuff blind" and don't even realize the dangers of the now cramped spaces. Breaks my heart!
Thanks, this was great! I've been attempting to identify possible examples of hoarding in my personal life, but this clarified that none qualify 👍
Do you know what it's like to have your family come to help you clean and the first thing they do is open up garbage bags?
I have bipolar disorder with lots of anxiety. I have difficulty sorting and making choices with stuff in my house. At the time, I was taking lithium and 2000 mg depakote. I was really sedated, had my young son make menu choices for me at McDonald's! I managed to work full time. My family was annoyed when I couldn't answer when asked where to put items. If I could have figured that out, I wouldn't have needed help. I was overwhelmed. Still am, a bit. I should have told them that I hid money, forgetting where I stashed it! Maybe they would have valued my belongings instead of regarding stuff as trash.
Thanks for keeping this video here.
One thing I've noticed is that hoarders dont seem to be interested in the objects aesthetic value very much though they may think so. They dont arrange things in a way that would show that they are interested in how the items look; they end up in bags, under the bed, in piles.
I am a Plant Hoarder .l have hundreds of houseplants.ln the winter when l bring them all in the house is covered with plants.l am Fascinated by them, and spend all my time taking care of them,changing pots,watering,misting them etc.This is a True Compulsion l have ,as l feel unable to go without purchasing a plant if it is something l don't have and decide that l want.l know this is a mental disorder and l am Unable to stop it.
The more l listen to Dr.Grande ,the more mental disorders l am finding that l Have.Good and Bad.
Ha ha re reading this ..all mental disorders r Bad .None of them that r Good .🙄
Thanks for your great work! 🙂 As usual so interesting.
I was looked after by an elderly relative while my parents went to work. I listened to stories about famine and black market and how people set dogs after travelling beggars and when she took me to visit many of the refugees from an area that now belongs to Russia - some who were born shortly before or after WW1 they were often reminiscing those times of hardship. My mum was born after WW2 but the rationing went until her late teens: she never saw an orange until in her twenties!
My parents were poor factory workers and my dad was often at home because of his back problem. Everything was saved and reused as far as possible. Plastic bread bags were saved for freezing wild berries or garden products, margarine tubs for things that had liquid, old curtains became a dress for mother, then a skirt for me and then stripes in a rag rug. There would be a bare bone to give flavour to the soup and we would fight over pieces of fat; luncheon meat was a weekend treat. It was the same with clothes: My cousin would get new trousers or a jumper as he grew. When he grew out of it, my brother inherited it, then my other cousin, my other brother and then me. By the time I had them, a pair of jeans had several patches and the original fabric had worn so thin I could see my skin shining through.. We kept literally everything for years... When I was a young adult I became homeless and had to resort to drinking hot water with sugar, or, if I was lucky, oat flakes soaked in water. I wasn't that fond of candy bars but they were cheaper than fruit. Eventually I managed to earn enough money to rent a room but there was always some problem: I had to move an average once a month. In the end I didn't even bother to unpack my boxes... Things got eventually better but I have had to move several times since and even now the the longest I lived anywhere is three years, not because I ever wanted to move. I get anxious for not having at least few tins and other long lasting food and my second bedroom is half full of flattened cardboard boxes, just in case: they cost a lot of money and at present I wouldn't even know where to obtain them. I had termites in my house but by some miracle they never got into that room!
I have been getting more and more health issues and I have a constant fear in the back of my mind that I cannot work but that I will lose my home and not have enough to eat: I have never been in the position of saving for retirement. Yet I continue hoarding books I might use for work (but I know I never will) and not getting rid of any of the other ones either. I also have hard time throwing away clothes, like the T-shirt with a stain that I bought 25 years ago... (It's otherwise in a perfect condition, you know, so why waste it?)
I'm not saying that my experience made me a hoarder. I'm sure that I have a predisposition to it anyway, but I am sure some of that neurotic behaviour has rubbed on after a 30-year close relationship with someone who is (eventually) a self-confessed hoarder: me hoarding craft things for one day when I have time for it has nothing to do with survival!
My parents were from WW2 and I was brought up not to waste things but they aren’t hoarders, I am. I still maintain I can usually find anything in my house anyone would possible need and I have no guilt or negativity about hoarding. I find it amusing when my kids want to control it. After a few yrs they know they can’t .. I get too emotionally upset if they stop me raiding the bin for things they throw out that were mine.
@@AwfulDog1 I get emotionally attached, too and then get upset if others throw away things I had bought and which I still deem useful. Or when it's books. I guess my love of books is because they were an escape from my parents violent fights, my mother's rejection, loneliness (no other kids) and, well, me and my family being different. They also taught practically everything I needed to know at school until I was 16 - the only homework I had to do was on foreign languages.
But a lot of WHAT I hoard is learnt from my parents. It was normal for everyone to know some DIY and have a few tools, but I have not done any renovation or fixing in my house (painting and varnishing and flat packed furniture doesn't count) but I still doodle over tools and read their specifications while telling myself I really haven't got the need or space for a circular saw... My landlord doesn't even want me to put up some kitchen fittings in case I cracking the wall tiles while drilling screw holes!
@@oakstrong1 I just love my books and hoarded stuff!!! I was an only child too...wonder if it is to do with lacking company and affection???
Thank you for your uploads they’re very helpful and informative
You are quite welcome!
@@DrGrande
Dr. Grande, could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE analyze the bizarre, unique, terrifying, viscous, sexually confusing, and mind boggling case of:
Col. Russell Williams, Commander of Canadian Air Force Base, Trenton, Ontario, Canada.
I’m an American woman married to a Canadian man, and we lived near Col. Williams at his part time home in Tweed, Ontario.
And I new one of his terrorized victims.
It’s several years, but she is still traumatized and will not live alone or be at home alone.
I would greatly appreciate your valued opinion on this unforgettable case.
RUclips has dozens of videos on the matter.
Thank You
(1 of 2)TG’s videos so often have the aha moment in them for me. I’m really glad I saw this one, glad you do them. Thank you. I recently realized I’ve been doing this for about seven to ten years now (I’ll explain). I can only speak from my own experience (which doesn’t include clinically observational or professional knowledge) but I think it’s a safe bet (if it’s not obvious) people doing this usually have plans for the stuff we gather when we acquire it. Throw that shit away and you’d be throwing away the the plans I was looking forward to. I don’t even know if I am or not anymore but obviously I’m hiding from it because I can’t handle it. I mean, duh I do know how to throw shit away as I take the full bin to the curb every week thank hypothetical you very much.
The observation about high conscientiousness/perfectionism gone astray into slovenliness (I forget the canonical antonym he used, and undoubtedly that says something too) is right on. In my own case it’s because I haven’t always been someone who can’t finish a project, or who knows I need to open my mail but got traumatized by something that arrived in it. I’m almost certain hoarding is the sign people don’t realize is a CPTSD locator beacon.
Maybe some hoarders even realize it but how do you get the courage to try and recover from something that’s still being inflicted, or something seeing your way out from within which is too horrifying (or maybe frightening)? A high tolerance for disgust was mentioned... well, if I may be so bold as to presume hoarding experiences aren’t all THAT different...This hasn’t been my first choice of lifestyle. To the contrary I’ve become resigned to it in disgust because it’s smarter (or at least more practical) in my best estimation to retreat.
Yes there was a pair of traumatizing precipatory events that kicked it off in the late summer and fall of 2012 but then five years later there was another that cemented it and really got it going. I don’t think other people’s experience necessarily follows my own, but I’m aware that for as different as individuals incidentally end up - the fairly concise common composition we share is highly predictive of what we’re gonna do with the experience we live. When people react in ways that appear unpredictable don’t we usually figure out later we’d based our expectation on incomplete or faulty predictors? Stands to reason then that there are unknowns we fail to consider even when evaluating ourselves if we’re in denial or immersion myopia - just as there are when we evaluate others based on missing relevant information or misinformation (deliberate or unintentional). The very filter of self-reporting is SURELY where it ALL goes wrong LOL.
Trusting our own or anyone else’s is a foolish trap PRECISELY BECAUSE none of us knows when our own or somebody else’s can’t be trusted. If ever there were an example of intolerance for ambiguity/uncertainty it must surely be attributing credibility to the oxymoron of self-objectivity. Seriously, how stupid are we to do that…yet still we all do. Reminds me of the time when as a little boy I laughed and said “Well yeah Mom but you’re not objective” to which she replied in absolute startled sincerity (which immediately gave way to narcissistic injury) “Well I think I am” (heavily emphasizing the I). That of course was the memorable part so I don’t know if I said “uh” or anything more, but I doubt it. And I also don’t know if her anger was based on realization or just being contradicted/criticized. LMFAO, I mean making my point and then blaming me for it.🙄 I knew she was crazy and I knew I was stuck with her, but I didn’t know any better than to make the best of it longer than I had to. But the reason you can’t get through to a narcissist is absomosdefalutely because they don’t want you to.
So perhaps to some degree none of us is ready to be gotten through to when in the throes of any compensatory adaptation to trauma. You can still tell the difference though between a person who means well and is trying their best and someone pretending that their best is thinking their eight or nine year old means them harm, because it really does come down to SHARED willingness to be rational in a given situation. So I’m not saying that to prompt compassion for perpetrators unworthy of forgiveness that’ll only be used against the forgiving until they learn the lesson of that. Someone unwilling to grant you the benefit of the same rational common sense they only try to warp in you for having extended it to them is basically having a woke stroke and can’t be reasoned with- because, as I said, they don’t want to be.
The narcissist underestimates what he values in others (resources, abilities, influence, intelligence) on perceived miscalculation because he’s (overblocking the vulnerability of sameness) dismissive of (superior to) them. The codependent overestimates what he values in others (sincerity, integrity, decency, loyalty, honesty) on perceived misinformation because he’s (overpermitting the vulnerability of sameness) NOT dismissive of them.
I don’t agree to shit and then show up late or cancel now because I’m a people pleaser, I do it because in addition to being forgetful disinterested and done with the futility of thinking I have any real agency I can’t fucking concentrate and can’t accurately estimate how long wrapping up anything else and putting together anything required and getting myself ready and allowing for traffic might take. I wasn’t one who tended to run late - my father used to set his watch fast just to tell me I was late. Grown ass man doing that shit. And actually doing it to another grown-ass man, come to think of it.
Thank you. This was very helpful information.
🦋 Dr. Grande this is specific info that i needed. 🤠🙏🐘big thank you.
I know a lady who lost access to her grandson due to her daughter suddenly refusing to allow her to see her grandchild again out of the blue. Weird. And the lady slowly started buying everything in sight ... now her home is filled with clothes and shoes and other pieces of junk.
Kelly York
Interesting how loss triggers spending, maybe it helps to distract from the pain in the moment, and things provide a fleeting feel good but it’s an unhealthy pattern and slippery slope not to mention difficult to climb out of emotionally and financially. Retail therapy anonymous anyone?
You talk with such fluidity and everything you say makes sense , I’d like you to be my therapist 😊 or better hang out with you!
Thank you for providing such useful insight Dr., I really needed to see this video to try to understand my grandmother and her hoarding tendencies so that I can approach it a much more comprehensive manner and keep my cool when it comes to stressful situations
Oh I’ll never forget when it was added to the DSM-V. I was relieved. I saw the differentiation for years and had to bill to the closest match- usually OCD. Anywho, thanks for the psychoed. very important. 🙌🏼
I am too busy now that I am watching all these videos. In my family I saw some that grew up poor tend to save everything. She might be OCD too. In some TV shows, there were people who were sick or had dementia as well. Great topic. Still so much to catch up❤️🇨🇦 Thank-you
Lot's of storage places depend on hoarders / pack rats / collectors!
I saw an episode of Hoarders where a couple actually bought a second home for the wife to pack all her crap in.
Yep. I just bought another storage building to keep my stuff safe from thieves. Also, I'm helping the economy.
My father was friends with a man who hoarded cats. He apparently only claimed 3 of the cats. However, there was at least 30 feral cats running around his yard. Even though he didn’t claim all the cats, He would feed all them. I remember my mother was asked to feed the cats and she found newborn kittens with eye infections, which she brought home and we cleaned for 2-3 hrs. I was so angry and upset a human would allow these cats to suffer and would have literally died without us caring for them. Btw, he was known for getting blaring drunk in his backyard. He had a tv setup outside where he would watch Fox News for hours and then talk shit on Facebook, along with posting alt-right politics. Sometimes that involved posting dead cats. One summer my father had asked him to tend to the yard weekly while they were out of state. I was at home alone and he had a key to my house. He’d walk in without knocking or announcing himself. At that time I was a studious bright-eyed psych undergrad taking bio psych during the summer. I have a history of abuse from my father’s former best friend. So, him walking into the house was particularly unsettling. I told my father what was going on, he said, “well he’s not going into your room at night is he?” Pretty much told me to initiate the conversation myself to clear my uncomfortably. My dad’s friend walked into the house like he usually did, and I confronted him calmly. He accused me of not hearing his knocks (he was lying) and left angry. I never liked him, think he’s weird, and don’t trust him for shit.
Edit: btw, my youngest sister has autism. She’s a collector of the things she loves. Not a hoarder. Love how you talked about this.
That "Cat Man" sounds creepy. You were right to not trust him. I would never have given someone like that a key to my home ~ sounds like your dad was too trusting. I'm glad nothing bad happened to you then!
Mikel OBrien thank you!! I appreciate the words of encouragement 🙏🏻
Mikel OBrien
IKR
I would suspect animal abuse, cruelty by neglect. Big red flag 🚩 as possibly narcissistic
I have too much stuff - to the point I'm uncomfortable and unhappy about it. Thank heaven I'm no longer bringing more stuff in, but it's really hard for me to get rid of anything that's already here, even though the thing isn't making me happy anymore. Sometimes I have a memory attached to the item. Sometimes I think I could sell it (even though I know I won't list it on Ebay, for example). Sometimes I think someone might like the item, but I don't know who or how to find them. Finally, sometimes I think I'll use it eventually (usually that's why I hold onto books so long).
I'd love to clear all this junk out and have some space in my home, but I can't seem to get it done. I just get rid of a few things at a time and avoid getting new things and hope it will slowly get better.
It will, if you're persistent. I do the same thing, because my place is so small. I find there's real emotional turmoil sometimes getting rid of a small thing, but then a week later I barely remember having it. (And conversely, if an object was really meaningful I can still bring it to mind, and the attached positive feelings as well.)
Rebecca Woolfolk
IKR, sooo frustrating.
Although I prefer order and organization I tend to have piles of organized clutter, lol.
Marie Kondo was helpful in letting go of things that didn’t spark joy 👍 I tended to overvalue things that I don’t really need or find I have multiples that just take up valuable real estate in my already small living space.
I believe that everything has a place and if there isn’t one in your space then it’s time to relocate it to a new home, lol.
Easier said than done, but what’s working for me is I mark boxes with donate or give away. I gave up gifting to friends as there was too much pressure for them to appreciate the gesture which doesn’t feel good. It’s almost like forcing someone to like what you like unintentionally, haha. Why waste time trying to please others by gifting when you can donate and let people choose what THEY want 👍 Win ~ Win
It is very difficult to live with a hoarder. Keeping the house organized and putting things where they should be are impossible tasks. Things just keep getting added- shoes, clothes, unopened boxes of items ordered, empty boxes that should have been discarded months ago, etc. If you want to throw any stuff out, she would insist that she will use the item even though it has been sitting in the same spot for the past year unused.
Do you believe that a disordered house is indicative of a disordered mind? How about the school of thought that decluttering/organizing ones space may lead to clearer/more organized thinking. It makes sense that when you remove stressors (clutter) you may decrease anxiety. Do you think “cleanliness is next to Godliness”. Thoughts?
I believe you're correct, besides being related to trauma, insecurity and loneliness.
If that were so, then all a hoarder would have to do is clean house and they'd be well. That's not how it works. It's layers of history, security, insulation from pain/fear/the world, all embodied in those piles of stuff. It's trivializing to say that decluttering will cure all your psychological woes. There's a lot more going on in that "disordered mind" than just clutter. I do agree, though, that the average person may find renewed focus and energy when decluttering their living space-- hence the popularity of Spring Cleaning. But it's not a panacea.
A disorganized house makes it harder to have an organized mind. I don't think that "cleanliness is next to Godliness," but cleanliness is a reward in and of itself.
I always thought it was cleanliness is next to impossible.
@@gailremp3628 LOL
I used to work in a second hand book store. One time we got a donation from a person who was forced by the city government to get rid of the books in his house because they were stacked all the way to the ceiling. Aside from the books inside his house he also had three shipping containers filled with books. One of these containers was filled with pairs of books that were exatcly identical to one another (two copies of book A, two copies of book B, two copies of book C, etc etc). We had to throw away about 95% of these books because they didn't have any value.
I know an extreme hoarder lady who keeps everything "just right" as she is Always "right". within plastic tubs. Hundreds of them. In a condemable shack of a filthy house that she believes is clean. What is kept clean and what is filthy just baffles me. She said "have you seen that show hoarders?! Those people just aren't... "right". And I stood speechless as always. Such a warped awareness. Large volumes of odd Rules. Everything is judged through warped filters and endless rules. Humor/laughter only when someone perceived as "screwing up"/less than her "rightness". She looks twice her age. House full, sheds full, built a 24'X24' storage building..filled it with tubs, then rents storage units....for e ver. Must re-buy everything because unable to access what has been stored away "perfectly". Narrow paths through minimal space of the house. She takes photos of everything, makes prints, hoards them, no-one allowed to see photos or has ever seen 40 years of any family photos. X-mas presents she preferred vs what the kids liked bought for them immediately stored in tubs to keep them nice, never allowed to be played with. And on and on with the "right" rules. No one is allowed to exist seperately, think, speak or have an opinion that is not Her. Her emotions must be mirrored by all or she feels unloved and angry. All kids enmeshed with her. The "dom-kid" became a narcissist. There is always a rotating scapegoat kiddo. Extreme hypocrisy.
Her whole clan is fascinating and should be a case study for warped development.
Ruby K Payne's, [A framework for understanding poverty ] helped me a lot to understand this clan but they are still custom creations from their upbringings. Thank God they are all kind to animals at least.
This is very interesting. Both my sister's have hoarding disorder but I have the opposite I can't have any piles of books or anything around and I have to have everything clean like it is brand new. I think that having the hoarding disorder is better than having to have everything perfect and in its place to be able to function.
I did volunteer work with a homeless man for a time. He had lost his apartment because he was a hoarder. He was a cool gentle soul but yet another victim of our failings as a society to adequately deal with the psychological disorders behind the homeless crisis.
I used to 'hoard'. I watched a few of those popular TV programs about hoarding to scare me into letting go.
But my hoarding was organised, my home was clean and tidy. I guess my hoarding was not so severe but it was definitely a problem - and an emotional and financial one. My collections were mainly books - thousands but they were all on bookshelves, organized like a library and people would take loan and I would note down the details of the loan. I also used to collect paper, card, fabric, anything related to the idea of recycling for craft or up cycling, I always had in mind to make something but never had the time. It was all handy when my kids were growing up because we did lots of reading together and making stuff.
But when they arrived in there teens they began to complain about how 'cluttered' the house was and my fifteen year old said one day 'this has to stop!'.
It wasn't easy, and I still to this day let things go with some sadness, I guess at the waste we make in living life, but I did it. I watched loads of declutter videos and adapting them. For example one approach to books was remove every fifth. After doing this for a few weeks I upped that to if one book make it five, if six make it ten etc. This got extended to other stuff. It wasn't easy but I'm glad I did it.
But then I do have audible and Kindle these days - kind of like the alcoholics secret cupboard! So the clutter is gone but as Dr Grande pointed out - the reasons behind the collecting have not been resolved - I'm not even sure what they are myself.
I was pleased to watch this video, it's helped me understand the differences between different disorders and the obvious conclusion that it's not over because the visible clutter is gone - it still needs working on with some kind of therapy - so back to the drawing board for me!
I live with a hoarder of clothes and shoes. I got mad once and threw out about 50 pairs of shoes she had not worn in 10 years at least. We have boxes and suitcases full of clothes. I bet most she could not even fit into most of them. We have moved 3 times in the last couple of years and all this junk comes with us. Very distressing to me.
Ive listend to this man several times. And I firmly believe that he is a person that can actully talk on a subject for a solid hour and never say anything that you could possibly ever understand. I believe that he himself would be a good study for a head doctor.
mmmmh? what do you mean?
Just ran by your video and wanted to say, 'hi' and to wish you a happy T-day! Well wishes to you and your family, Doctor! Hope it was a good one! 👋💟😁
I have a relative that is a notorious hoarder. Thank you for the video.
Ooooh What a cool surprise to find this video!!!!! I have known several hoarders in my life. I personally have no problem with clearing out unused things. In fact, the less that I have, the better I feel! My husband and I travel frequently ( or we used to before COVID-19), and i don't like worrying about "stuff." It is a shame that so many are not able to see (insight) how much happier they could be if they were able to clear out trash in order to walk safely in their homes. I wonder what it would take to help them understand..... Maybe having them visit ANOTHER hoarder?
Thank you for this video so good to know about this topic
BTW, Steketee and Frost's book: *Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding And The Meaning Of Things* is a great read. If anyone's interested. Can't recommend it enough, though I don't think I could stand reading about the cat hoarder again. It broke my heart.
I realize this is an old thread, but worth a shot.
I recently returned from living abroad with my youngest son. He’s Asperger’s and studying in university. I am there to support him. Upon my return I found my eldest sons room a disaster. Piled up garbage and tons of empty bags. If I touch anything he gets upset. I have over the last few years considered he also falls somewhere on the spectrum. He has difficulty in transitioning from one activity to another and suffers anxiety if he can’t mentally prepare to do anything. Zero spontaneity.
His condition is worrying me. He doesn’t want any outside help. I wish I could better understand this condition so I could find a possible solution. My son is 36 and has a university degree. We are not poor nor did he grow up needing anything. That just reminded me, he won’t let me replace any outdated furniture. He will make me store it. He still has clothing from his teenage years, and his first car that has sat around until all tires went flat. He says he’s gonna fix it. He’s been saying that for 5 years. Definitely a problem here , but he’s not willing to seek help/ answers. I am starting to feel whatever is going on with him is getting worse as he ages.
Great treatment start: MOVE! It make you dump a lot of stuff.
Kathryn Carter
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Truth!
I found your video about hoarding interesting and informative. Thank you for posting it.
This is an interesting topic! Thank you for the easy to understand explanation, Dr. Grande.❤
Very informative episode. Thank you.