I’ve just bought this on sale for 20 euros, I read about it ages ago but figured Reiner Knizia, why not? The thing is I’ll most probably only play this with my wife, so what was the obviously slight issue you had about the game at two players? Can it be remedied? Or if I get on and play, I won’t notice. I’ve never played T&E and don’t own a heavier abstract game, which part of the reason for the purchase
It's been a while, but I felt the game was a bit too open at 2 players. You want to have that constrained feeling with more players. But it's still solid.
From what I've noticed: 1. There are fewer tile placement opportunities in T&E compared to Y&Y because the former uses squares to the latter's hexagons. So, coups are harder to prevent in Y&Y. This also means there are more options for states to expand, making it less predictable to guess where the wars come from in Y&Y, where T&E has to encourage expansion by offering treasures (generic points a la yellow points in Y&Y). 2. The wars in T&E are fought with each placed tile whose corresponding leaders belonging to different players are present in both states, whereas Y&Y only counts the red tiles (and red leaders not on the board). This makes the admin involved in calculating the number of tiles needed to win wars against states easier in Y&Y. Additionally, in T&E, the losing leader loses all tiles that supported it while giving the winning leader's player points equal to the number of tiles the losing leader lost plus one. So, states change much more drastically because of wars in T&E, while there are more attempts to hold pagodas in one's territory in Y&Y. However, Y&Y allows other players, including those who do not have their leaders in either warring state, to commit red tiles to whichever state they might prefer. This makes Y&Y more suitable for higher player counts compared to T&E. 3. The temples in T&E give out points for two separate colours and cannot be moved, unlike the pagodas of Y&Y. This makes wars not only a means of winning points but also changing who gets the points for two colours in T&E. Y&Y, on the other hand, has a yellow pagoda (which might not even come up in some two player games) that, given that yellow tiles are the rarest among all others, basically causes fights seeking to control the state that has the yellow pagoda. Where treasures act as tiebreakers, yellow poins can help compensate for colours you couldn't focus on. In summary, T&E is more constrained in terms of decision-space and its wars are more consequential, while Y&Y is less restricted and emphasises higher player counts. Both have related, but separate, scope for high-level play.
Hmmm, interesting. Some of the new rules are balanced out by the fact you use hexes not squares. Maybe the bonuses for holding leaders back? Or not flipping the tiles that build temples?
I am glad Grail Games went with wooden pieces. I did not like the plastic pieces in the FFG version of Tigris. As for which is better, I think people will still be playing Tigris 20 years from now, and I do not think that is the case for Yellow. I do think Yellow is more accessible though.
All tiles are denoted by a specific character portrait. The pagodas sit on top of those tiles. The only part where it can be a bit iffy is player tiles, but they're fairly distinct colours.
From BGG: It is tighter than T&E. Perhaps too tight and balanced. Games are always coming in closer than T&E, which makes not having equal turns even more egregious. I prefer T&E as it provides the potential of big swings from external conflicts. Things in Y&Y that are not as good: 1. Y&Y is so ”refined” that it never provides devastating conflicts which give the game its excitement. Now internal and external conflicts are virtually the same thing, other than playing either black tiles vs red tiles to generate 1 VP in the colour of the losing leader. 2. Y&Y feels much more of an efficiency exercise than the tactical tension of T&E. 3. Everyone in every game we've played, has groaned at the luck of an opponent drawing more yellow tiles. 4. Riots/castastrophies are "limitless" as long as you have blue tiles...so pagodas get knocked down almost as fast as they go up. And yellow pagodas are usually instantly catastrophied. In T&E, you couldn't just knock down someone's monument with 1 tile. You had to fight to take it over. So the choice is easy for me -> T&E.
Unfortunately your pinyin pronunciation is still wrong. 'yang' was correct. but 'tze' is not actually pinyin and just the "English" version of it. 'zi' is the correct pinyin and the 'i' is not pronounced in ci, si, zi. Typically it is as 'ee' as you pronounced, such as 'li' would be pronounced as 'lee'. But ci, si, zi are special and the 'i' is just there to "voice" the initial letter of 'c', 's', 'z'. Its confusing I know. 8 years in China and I still get confused. But I would not suggest that youtube channel you used as a source as they gave you false information.
Thanks for the review. I have been debating which one to get and this review was helpful.
Thanks!
I’ve just bought this on sale for 20 euros, I read about it ages ago but figured Reiner Knizia, why not? The thing is I’ll most probably only play this with my wife, so what was the obviously slight issue you had about the game at two players? Can it be remedied? Or if I get on and play, I won’t notice. I’ve never played T&E and don’t own a heavier abstract game, which part of the reason for the purchase
It's been a while, but I felt the game was a bit too open at 2 players. You want to have that constrained feeling with more players. But it's still solid.
From what I've noticed:
1. There are fewer tile placement opportunities in T&E compared to Y&Y because the former uses squares to the latter's hexagons. So, coups are harder to prevent in Y&Y. This also means there are more options for states to expand, making it less predictable to guess where the wars come from in Y&Y, where T&E has to encourage expansion by offering treasures (generic points a la yellow points in Y&Y).
2. The wars in T&E are fought with each placed tile whose corresponding leaders belonging to different players are present in both states, whereas Y&Y only counts the red tiles (and red leaders not on the board). This makes the admin involved in calculating the number of tiles needed to win wars against states easier in Y&Y. Additionally, in T&E, the losing leader loses all tiles that supported it while giving the winning leader's player points equal to the number of tiles the losing leader lost plus one. So, states change much more drastically because of wars in T&E, while there are more attempts to hold pagodas in one's territory in Y&Y. However, Y&Y allows other players, including those who do not have their leaders in either warring state, to commit red tiles to whichever state they might prefer. This makes Y&Y more suitable for higher player counts compared to T&E.
3. The temples in T&E give out points for two separate colours and cannot be moved, unlike the pagodas of Y&Y. This makes wars not only a means of winning points but also changing who gets the points for two colours in T&E. Y&Y, on the other hand, has a yellow pagoda (which might not even come up in some two player games) that, given that yellow tiles are the rarest among all others, basically causes fights seeking to control the state that has the yellow pagoda. Where treasures act as tiebreakers, yellow poins can help compensate for colours you couldn't focus on.
In summary, T&E is more constrained in terms of decision-space and its wars are more consequential, while Y&Y is less restricted and emphasises higher player counts. Both have related, but separate, scope for high-level play.
...but if you have Tigris, are there any Yellow rules that are worth it (or even possible) to introduce?
Hmmm, interesting. Some of the new rules are balanced out by the fact you use hexes not squares. Maybe the bonuses for holding leaders back? Or not flipping the tiles that build temples?
I am glad Grail Games went with wooden pieces. I did not like the plastic pieces in the FFG version of Tigris. As for which is better, I think people will still be playing Tigris 20 years from now, and I do not think that is the case for Yellow. I do think Yellow is more accessible though.
They reverted to plastic after the first edition, I am glad I got it before it went out of print.
colour f*ing friendly? Did I hear correctly?
All tiles are denoted by a specific character portrait. The pagodas sit on top of those tiles. The only part where it can be a bit iffy is player tiles, but they're fairly distinct colours.
@@TheBrokenMeeple I was just referring to the colourful language :-)
Ha ha don't think I swore 🤣
@@TheBrokenMeeple You definitely did! :-D 8:38ish mark
Hardcore 😅
Pagoders!
From BGG: It is tighter than T&E. Perhaps too tight and balanced. Games are always coming in closer than T&E, which makes not having equal turns even more egregious. I prefer T&E as it provides the potential of big swings from external conflicts.
Things in Y&Y that are not as good:
1. Y&Y is so ”refined” that it never provides devastating conflicts which give the game its excitement. Now internal and external conflicts are virtually the same thing, other than playing either black tiles vs red tiles to generate 1 VP in the colour of the losing leader.
2. Y&Y feels much more of an efficiency exercise than the tactical tension of T&E.
3. Everyone in every game we've played, has groaned at the luck of an opponent drawing more yellow tiles.
4. Riots/castastrophies are "limitless" as long as you have blue tiles...so pagodas get knocked down almost as fast as they go up. And yellow pagodas are usually instantly catastrophied. In T&E, you couldn't just knock down someone's monument with 1 tile. You had to fight to take it over.
So the choice is easy for me -> T&E.
Unfortunately your pinyin pronunciation is still wrong. 'yang' was correct. but 'tze' is not actually pinyin and just the "English" version of it. 'zi' is the correct pinyin and the 'i' is not pronounced in ci, si, zi. Typically it is as 'ee' as you pronounced, such as 'li' would be pronounced as 'lee'. But ci, si, zi are special and the 'i' is just there to "voice" the initial letter of 'c', 's', 'z'. Its confusing I know. 8 years in China and I still get confused. But I would not suggest that youtube channel you used as a source as they gave you false information.