I know the Navy guys and some of the RRC guys have been playing around for some time now with the MP7. For that same mission set would you have preferred the MP7 or even the P90 for the additional reach over that of 9mm? I remember seeing that Army CID recently purchased the B&T APC9 for their PSD mission. Back in 2002 timeframe I was an MP on our local SRT and since we were an entirely garrison unit our long gun selection was limited to old Winchester 1300’s and a couple M4’s borrowed from the CID detachment. It wasn’t until 2009 that the SRT on that post turned in their M24’s for M110’s.
Doing recce work with an MP5 is something that probably no other guntuber can say they've done. That's why this channel is awesome. Also all these real photos from your time overseas are incredible.
@@pznili much respect to you, but I meant gun youtubers with a lot of subscribers. I know there are lots of operators with youtube channels! I see them in the comments here.
We took an MP-5a3 knock-off during a raid in 07 Baghdad. I was my PSG’s humvee gunner and was tired of having to borrow my drivers rifle as a back up turret gun. So I asked and he let me keep it up in the turret with me. Was a great little quick gun that I could grab and dump a 30 round mag if I needed to. Took the same rounds as my M9. Loved the roller-delayed blow back.
I was issued an old 1980's era MP-5 when I joined my agency SWAT team in 1999 and I carried it for about a year before we were issued UMP-40's. The UMP's were phased out in late 2001 for a M-4's, one of which I kept until I left the team in 2012. The MP-5 was fun to shoot but North Hollywood was a watershed moment for us in law enforcement as far as the usage of pistol caliber long guns on the street
Yeah I feel like if I’m shouldering a weapon and in a true gunfight I want a rifle round. Don’t get me wrong the MP5 and other PCC/SMG’s are great for CQB but now that we have rifle caliber pistols I’m always gonna pick something with 556, 300blk, 7.62x39 etc etc over any pistol caliber
I believe that there’s still a place for SMG’s in SWAT world but those times are dropping fast. Especially with the proliferation of commercial and home built armor. One of the biggest reasons I think they are at least somewhat relevant still is serving a narcotics warrant on a lab. The fumes can ignite and even suppressed a 5.56 SBR spits out a decent flame. Two other missions I see some use for a sub gun, not necessarily an MP5 or even a 9mm for that matter: school resource officers and LEO surveillance teams/jump out bois. An MP5 or Sig MPX in 9mm is still more accurate than a standard handgun. That accuracy and rate of fire might help a resource officer stop a shooter while being something he can keep in a much smaller lock box in the office. LEO close surveillance teams like the various SIS types often only have a plain handgun for their own protection. This they’re relying heavily upon following officers to have a long gun if it comes to that. A traditional SMG or more modern bottle neck cartridge PDW gives more firepower from a package only slightly larger.
@Sooner Frac I totally agree, intervention forces and hostage rescue teams all over the world Stull use the MP 5 to great effect, the SAS never had any issues using I again targets using heavier caliber. So I dint believe that whole Hollywood shootout really dint do shit to yhe reputation of this gun across the world .
I joined the Marine Corps in 1991 and achieved the mos 0326 in 1993. I served with both 1st and 2nd Force Recon Companies and 2nd Marine Battalion Recon. We used both the MP5 & MP5SD in Force Recon but only for certain types of operations mainly CQB & Ship Takedowns.
There were some SF folks on deployment in Afghanistan in 2013 who had MP5s available for one reason or another. They brought them to the range for us to shoot as a thank you for fixing their radios and replacing some M4 barrels for them (one stockless, one standard with collapsing stock). After we shot the MP5s, it was a great chance for me as a POG to get some M4 transition training from someone who actually knew what they were doing. Wish I had appreciated it more at the time.
In the early 1990s, as an armorer, firearms instructor and SRT III team member, we had the opportunity to evaluate MP5s chambered in 10mm. We all liked firing them, specifically due to the ballistic improvements; muzzle rise was abit more than the 9mm, but felt recoil was negligible. Unfortunately federal agencies did not adopt them; to this day I would prefer 10mm over 9mm!
This is THE video I've been waiting for. Wonderful photos (thank you for scanning and sharing). Few (often grainy/blurred) GWOT MP5 and UMP pics in the hands of US SOF have sort of floated around the internet for a while, but they had no credible or detailed context/explanation behind them. Very cool to know how these iconic SMGs finished off their service "in style". And finally, there's an answer to how the curious UMPs showed up! I love these videos.
Greetings from India. MP5s were/are beloved by our special forces too. Fun fact, the first MP5s we got, were captured from Pakistani troops in 1970s, who had the license to locally produce them. It was evaluated by our SF, and they were so much better than our Sterlings we brought a lot of them from Germany in some "special" way 😂😂😂
Your channel is a true diamond in the rough of the thousands of tacti-cool operator/former operator channels. The lack of ridiculous music and over-edited cornball shooting scenes is such a breath of fresh air. Straight knowledge from someone who's been there done that. Keep it up mate!
Fairly recently discovered your channel, but I love it already. It's like Forgotten Weapons if Gun Jesus had actually used a lot of the stuff in deployment. Best combination ever. Thank you for having such an informative, easy to digest, fun to watch channel. I really appreciate your depth of knowledge on the subject matter and matter-of-fact approach
@@JimBrodie perhaps, but that's what it's being "officially" called. Not the channel to debate those semantics. I think it's way more about a shortcut than any sort of political or ideological assertion or agreement.
Love your channel and the history lessons of guns and gear. I would label myself as a gear horder and can't seem to get enough. Thans for your service.
Very interesting to see, thank you! Here in Germany the MP5 is still in wide use by the police forces (and its special forces, such as the GSG-9). This is due to the easy availability of the gun and spare parts (H&K is a german company) and the long tradition the MP5 has with the german police since the 1960's. It also is simple to operate for regular officers who are mostly only trained on handguns. More and more police departments are beginning to replace the MP5 with the newer MP7, though. The german SWAT-teams ("SEK") and the famous GSG-9 (equivalent of the FBI's HRT) are replacing the MP5 with variants of the G36, STG-77, M416 and SCAR-L. The UMP-45 saw limited use with the german police, let alone the armed forces. To this day the MP5 still remains in widespread with both regular and, to a lesser degree, special police forces in Germany.
Blue Light had MP5s prior to the El Salvador mission. As you are aware, Blue Light was made up of ODAs from 5th & 7th SFG (A) and was in existence from about 1977ish- 78 ish. We used former Blue Light MP5s in SOT at Mott Lake in 1980.
Jeff, I was on ODA 515 from GW1 to 98’ after we stood up as a CIF. We got the M4A1 in spring on 95’ not 97’. We used the MP5 more when we had the M16A1/A2s as M4A1 was preferred. Later 03-06’ I also carried a MP5K or A3 in my GMV. Still saw MP5s on ODAs in Astan 17-21’. Last year 22’ had a 19th ODB in Baghdad with a few
That is the exact same configuration as my SP5. It's sitting here in my lap as I type this. I absolutely never get tired of watching MP5 content, and I handle my SP5 and my SP5K with awe and gratitude each time I I handle or gaze upon them. 😊
That transition you do on the video is pretty solid. I have a SP5. Mainly got it for a range toy but it's become the home defense go to. Ive noticed transition to pistol with it is a lot easier than with my 16" AR. I also leave it loaded up with 2 clamped 30rd mags whenever I'm shooting out in the desert. Do mosy my practice with it at the indoor range. It's a handy and comforting weapon to have in situations that could get bad real quick where a carbine is impractical and only a pistol is a little too ambitious. Comes with me on road trips to. Thanks for your time and effort making this educational vieo. I really enjoyed all the pics and stories you shared in it.
I had a chance to fire a mp5 privately in 2001 and loved its ease of use. Later saw one mp5 carried one time on a security detail by a soldier in 2005 in Baghdad. I've used the sling tension method on zenith and ptr pistols and can get a few hits at 100. Still a great weapon.
I fell in love with that way back. I looked into getting an HK-94 when I was in Germany back in 85. I did get one at a pawn shop for about $875 in '87. Loved it.
Another great video. Man, those 7th Group guys were my heroes. It was a big deal when they finally got to wear their CIBs openly, and they had some great stories. Your friend needs the Franklin Armory trigger, btw.
During my first deployment in late 2001, we were still using the MP5/K & SD. It was an excellent weapon for house clearing & CQB. By 07 we almost never used it due to the versatility of the M4 platform. However I always kept an MP5k in my backpack as a tertiary weapon.
Had the pleasure of getting to know 5th group feller "Caveman" while role playing in Robin Sage, awesome Dude one of the Horse Soldiers. We had a couple of MP5's that we would sell to the studs at our black market. Good times.
People poke fun at 5.11 for being overly conspicuous now, but during the 2000s they were THE brand for military and law enforcement. My dad was a cop in the 2000s and the 5.11 duty boots with the zipper on the side were a godsend compared to wrestling the regular boots off and on every day.
Had HK UMP 45s at the SF Company level arms room as late as 2010 in 5th Group. Not sure what happened after that, but may have gone to LBAD. We picked up MP5s in Iraq during the initial invasion. Each ODA member had one, and when we left they were signed over to the incoming ODA.
I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experiences with us. To younger historians such as myself, firsthand accounts like yours are literally priceless! So thank you for sharing, and for your service 🙏
Thank You for your service, Very interesting information. Nice to have straight up information from a person that has been there and done that. Thank You again.
Deploying to EL Sal 1984. All SF were using AR-15s. I was stupid and did not take any choice of weapon in arms room and ended up with a M2 carbine and a Sw .38. In Afghanistan some were using MP5, but I felt they were too heavy and didn't have range I needed in bailout scenario. MP5s are sexy as sh*t to shoot.
We were issue with MP5's in 04 in Baghdad before moving over to SIG 552's, I was up in Kirkuk AFB late 2007, while using the SF ODA range at Kirkuk AFB, I went into the team armoury to trade for a Sterling 9mm smg that was found in a house search, the team had 1 .45acp UMP in the armoury as well as a MP5SD, the weapons SGT I was trading with confirmed both guns hardly left the armoury.
Anyone who has shot an MP-5 or a clone version understands why it is so popular. Accurate, reliable, virtually no recoil. It’s no wonder it was popular with SF, even with its limitations.
I’ve seen all other channels on Special Forces but none could compare to this one as we have a former SF guy talks about all these fancy gears and service history. This channel deserves to get more attention
In March of 1998 I was just arriving at Ft Leonard Wood for basic wich was osut as I enlisted as 12B. Later I would come back for Sapper leader course. I was 17 in 1998. Love this channel
We used them for cqb for many missions. Once the location distances opened up. The M4 took over. In both cases, longer range handlers were attached to the units. I carried mine throughout as my secondary choice. My spotter had the Socom M1 and mp5. Marvelous weaponry.
In 1993, I worked for a company that made training systems for weapons. I got a chance to hold an HK MP5 SD3. I head read so much about the MP5 and I was amazed by that weapon. Now that I am a complete gun enthusiast, I hope to shoot one. HK has a great reputation and I'm sure it fires great.
One thing I’ll note: 1st SFOD-D (Delta Force) adopted the MP5 a year earlier in 1979. This was in immediate response to a joint training with SAS at Herefordshire where they practice storming aircraft. The Unit was so impressed with versatility inside the aircraft (and wanting an excuse to ditch their M3A1 Grease Guns) that they adopted and ordered them immediately. As a side fun trivia. SAS themselves adopted the MP5 in 1977 after two members of the Special Projects Team participated in the Lufthansa Flight 181 rescue in Mogadishu where they saw GSG-9 running them.
*A little too long? Heck, on the MP5's, I'm a career Marine and I'm goin' for some Coors and popcorn to watch it over again and hopefully part two! Semper Fi, MTS!*
In the Navy in the 80s and early 90s we still used CAR-15s/Colt commandos that were manufactured in the early 70s for use in Vietnam. We did every imaginable operation with them. They were handy in close quarters and medium range targets. During a joint op, the Air Force TACP/JTAC guys had them as well. Why they weren’t in more usage amongst the army SF teams is beyond me. We had MP5s as well but the mission dictated wether it would be carried.
One of my favorite eras! SF was issued the M16 and later M16A1 to replace their M2 Carbines in the early-mid 1960s. Big Army issued XM177s and XM177E2s to Infantry Officers, K-9 Handlers, pilots, LRRPs, and some SF personnel. The XM177E2 was standard in SOG Recon Teams. USAF SOF units got GAU-5A and later GAU-5A/A, which looked just like XM177/XM177E2 but with no forward assist. SF Son Tay Raiders used a lot of GAU-5A/As for the raid in 1970. When 1st and 2nd Ranger Battalions were stood-up in 1974, officers, RTOs, and select key leaders got XM177E2s or Colt 653s (14.5" pencil barrel). There's a famous photo from Grenada '83 where a Ranger E-5 Mortar Team Leader is carrying a 653. While each SF Group had various Colt Commando variants in their armories and at JFKSWCS, there weren't enough to equip all members on an ODA across Companies and Battalions. So the M16A1 and later M16A2 were the standard shoulder-fired weapons on ODAs. SF had a leftover program from Blue Light where they used Colt Commandos for the assaulters, and M21s + R700 Bolt guns for Snipers, known as SOT out at Mott Lake, which later fed into SFARTAETC/CQB school at Range 37 on Bragg. On the Navy side as you saw, there was a mix of M16A1s, M-14s, M60E3s, and Colt 653s in the 1980s. The Communicators often carried Colt 653s with M203s, as did officers. There's an old recruiting video I'm sure you saw where a black-clad SEAL CQB element fast-ropes onto an island and runs through the bunkered facility with Colt Commandos burning dudes dressed in Russian uniforms down, places a satchel charge, then exfils on Hueys. Towards the late 1980s, NSW got the newer Colt 727 carbines with many of the M16A2 features like 1/7 twist, but with Fiberlite tele-stocks, and the 14.5" barrel with heavy forend and M203 bracket cut. Those basically look like an M4 but with an M16A2 upper receiver, which differed in that they had extended feed ramps. Ranger Regiment got those as well for key leaders and RTOs in the late 1980s, several of which were used in Mogadishu. Army JSOC used the Colt 723 instead to replace their 653s and XM177E2s, especially as M855 became standardized in the 80s. The Colt 723 had either an M16A1 or C7 upper receiver without the A2 rear sight assembly, 1/7 twist. Navy JSOC had the 727 with A2 rear sight. There were some very interesting mods made to those 723 and 727 carbines in both organizations before the M4A1 was fielded.
Thank you brother for your service! It's kind of wild your channel hasn't popped into my recommended yet, regardless I'm glad it did! You briefed this beautiful arm extension PERFECTLY! Pictures like you have throughout your explanation fit so well. Keep making more videos, subscribed and hope to see more like this soon! All of my guns fell into the ocean in a boat accident, so the only time I can shoot anything like this is when a friend of mine lends his to me for the day! Take care brother.
Great video with very interesting insights! Thank you for sharing your expirience with us. What I allways say, never underestimate a pistol cartridge fired out of a longer sub machine barrle! The great thing about PCC‘s is the interchangability of the ammunition and often also the magazines with your side arm. Greetings from switzerland
Yeah it's amazing, as the MP5 SD used in the last year during the Vietnam War, while UMP (45 ACP ones too) used by some Green Berets from 5th SFG (A) units in Iraq in the early years of the Iraqi insurgency.
ummm.... the SD wasn't introduced until 1974... a full year after the US left the war. And it was really developed for the SAS. So... it couldn't have been used in the last year of the Vietnam war, right?
The UMP rate of fire seems good for 45 ACP. Consistent bursts with a Reising at 875 rpm can be a challenge on the clock or under stress. One round extra or fewer throws off my planned spread a bit.
Great video as always. When I was attached to C51 in Kabul in early 2002, the !8B carried a MP5 for the same reasons you talked about. in the video. I brought a real photographer's vest that got from B&H photo. I loved to shoot the MP5, but it was was damn heavy compared to the M4.
Jimbo Weatherford- that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I remember we got the M4 in 3/5 just before Haiti (94?). I remember getting the old long barrel SR25's from JOS back then. Did yall ever have that black body armor with the flat plates? I used the push method with the stock in w/ the M4 when wearing a pro mask. In fact I recall getting messed with by the instructors where you worked about that lol. When I worked at SWC I was able to go to the HK armorer course in Va- it was pretty interesting and I learned a lot about the MP5. I had a couple in afg,. and I loaned them to the terps that would actually go on the objective with us. By the time I got out, the MP5's that were still in the arms room were mostly used with sim kits for OPFOR. When I was a contractor 2012-2017 we had a MP5 SD at one of our sites- we used it on the base for the foxes and jackals that were always around. The K9 guys were totally not cool with those indig critters being in the area, I guess they were concerned their dogs would catch something from them . I remember I used to use a green HK sling on my M4 (which I liberated from a JOS MP5) until I discovered the much superior VTAC sling. I never heard of a UMP anywhere except 5th group. Cool video, nice walk down memory lane.
Great video, I was looking forward to it. Its so sad we didn't have modern type digital cameras back in the 80,s 90,s and early 2000s. Would've been some badass footage I'm sure
Never saw any subguns with any of the SF guys I've worked with in Afghanistan, it was pretty much all M4s or MK18s though I did see a few SCAR 17s and Benelli M4s. As for handguns it was a mix of M9s, 1911s, Glocks and SIG P226s.
In my professional opinion, the MP5 is by far the absolute best SMG. It's an absolute Mercedes design put into a weapon that is stupid accurate even at high volumes of fire. Lightweight, good area around the magazine and trigger to allow for equipment. It has very rounded areas to prevent it from catching on equipment. The roller actuating bolt design is just the creme on top. Great recap on this iconic, multi-faceted weapon. I often have to explain to younger veterans and service members that we didn't even have red dots let alone ACOGs or any really purpose built optics for our service rifles. It was all iron sights even on the heavier machine guns. It was wild to witness the massive tech shift from 2001-2021 in weapons and gear. It was an amazing ride. It was like someone finally realized that using tech to solve problems was acceptable. Even seeing the 82nd finally realized the old T-10B was a shit chute which injured way more soldier, sailors, and airmen than need be.
Another reason I like the MP5... it doesn't ruin your buddies hearing/giving them concussions or yourself like an M4 or Mk 18 (even with ear pro) in a building or car.
We tested the MP 5's at 5th Group in, I believe, 1977. We all concurred it was state of the art and everyone gave it the thumbs up. Unfortunately, we wern't issued them while I was at Bragg.
Love the history of sf's weapons series as always. Very informable contents with great details! I remembered seeing that pic of sF guy with a ump45 when i was in the high school and i thought it was self-purchased at the time, never knew that they were issued to sfg until today. I'm not sure if it's true but someone mentioned that cag had some ump45 with cans as well at the time to take out the sentries since 45acp is sub-sonic which is preferable when suppressed. Mp7 and mp5sd were used as a similar role until the adoption of 300blk. Btw can't wait to see your review on 416s☺️
THE OLD POODLE SHOOTER!!!! I carried an SD when I first got on the SWAT Team. Hated it. Shoot ONE round... it's filthy. Moved on to a Navy Model as soon as one opened up. Never wanted one of the Ks we had. Thankfully, the Colt Commandos came soon after. Great little gun (the MP5)... but it's just a pistol. Beats the damned UZI, though, so there is that.
A viewer has sent me some info..Seems 5th SFG took those UMP45s to Afghanistan ...Pretty cool.
I know the Navy guys and some of the RRC guys have been playing around for some time now with the MP7. For that same mission set would you have preferred the MP7 or even the P90 for the additional reach over that of 9mm? I remember seeing that Army CID recently purchased the B&T APC9 for their PSD mission.
Back in 2002 timeframe I was an MP on our local SRT and since we were an entirely garrison unit our long gun selection was limited to old Winchester 1300’s and a couple M4’s borrowed from the CID detachment. It wasn’t until 2009 that the SRT on that post turned in their M24’s for M110’s.
now what about the colt 9mm sub gun in use with special forces ??
@@geezerp1982 Nope
And both of the umps have been on a arms rack ever since.
@@geezerp1982 Mostly DEA/BP.
Doing recce work with an MP5 is something that probably no other guntuber can say they've done. That's why this channel is awesome. Also all these real photos from your time overseas are incredible.
💯
I did
@@pznili much respect to you, but I meant gun youtubers with a lot of subscribers.
I know there are lots of operators with youtube channels! I see them in the comments here.
@@JG_1998 then my apologies. You are correct
What about the old salt who used Swedish K? ;)
We took an MP-5a3 knock-off during a raid in 07 Baghdad. I was my PSG’s humvee gunner and was tired of having to borrow my drivers rifle as a back up turret gun. So I asked and he let me keep it up in the turret with me. Was a great little quick gun that I could grab and dump a 30 round mag if I needed to. Took the same rounds as my M9. Loved the roller-delayed blow back.
I was issued an old 1980's era MP-5 when I joined my agency SWAT team in 1999 and I carried it for about a year before we were issued UMP-40's. The UMP's were phased out in late 2001 for a M-4's, one of which I kept until I left the team in 2012. The MP-5 was fun to shoot but North Hollywood was a watershed moment for us in law enforcement as far as the usage of pistol caliber long guns on the street
Our local marshals have some UMPs in .45ACP with two-round burst. So cool, and controllable.
Yeah I feel like if I’m shouldering a weapon and in a true gunfight I want a rifle round. Don’t get me wrong the MP5 and other PCC/SMG’s are great for CQB but now that we have rifle caliber pistols I’m always gonna pick something with 556, 300blk, 7.62x39 etc etc over any pistol caliber
@@wildcat8598 Eventually someone is going to open the door to homemade 54R belt-fed MGs. Won't be me though, and Congress will pounce on that quick!
I believe that there’s still a place for SMG’s in SWAT world but those times are dropping fast. Especially with the proliferation of commercial and home built armor. One of the biggest reasons I think they are at least somewhat relevant still is serving a narcotics warrant on a lab. The fumes can ignite and even suppressed a 5.56 SBR spits out a decent flame.
Two other missions I see some use for a sub gun, not necessarily an MP5 or even a 9mm for that matter: school resource officers and LEO surveillance teams/jump out bois. An MP5 or Sig MPX in 9mm is still more accurate than a standard handgun. That accuracy and rate of fire might help a resource officer stop a shooter while being something he can keep in a much smaller lock box in the office. LEO close surveillance teams like the various SIS types often only have a plain handgun for their own protection. This they’re relying heavily upon following officers to have a long gun if it comes to that. A traditional SMG or more modern bottle neck cartridge PDW gives more firepower from a package only slightly larger.
@Sooner Frac I totally agree, intervention forces and hostage rescue teams all over the world Stull use the MP 5 to great effect, the SAS never had any issues using I again targets using heavier caliber. So I dint believe that whole Hollywood shootout really dint do shit to yhe reputation of this gun across the world .
I joined the Marine Corps in 1991 and achieved the mos 0326 in 1993. I served with both 1st and 2nd Force Recon Companies and 2nd Marine Battalion Recon. We used both the MP5 & MP5SD in Force Recon but only for certain types of operations mainly CQB & Ship Takedowns.
There were some SF folks on deployment in Afghanistan in 2013 who had MP5s available for one reason or another. They brought them to the range for us to shoot as a thank you for fixing their radios and replacing some M4 barrels for them (one stockless, one standard with collapsing stock). After we shot the MP5s, it was a great chance for me as a POG to get some M4 transition training from someone who actually knew what they were doing. Wish I had appreciated it more at the time.
The MP5 is, and always will be an iconic firearm
I'd be interested in a video featuring the History of the M110 or DMRs in general in Special Forces. Maybe sniper rifles as well.
In the early 1990s, as an armorer, firearms instructor and SRT III team member, we had the opportunity to evaluate MP5s chambered in 10mm.
We all liked firing them, specifically due to the ballistic improvements; muzzle rise was abit more than the 9mm, but felt recoil was negligible.
Unfortunately federal agencies did not adopt them; to this day I would prefer 10mm over 9mm!
Damn, that’s cool. Gotta find a 10mm mp5 clone
@@spencermichaelson1882 I saw a couple on gunbroker
10mm isn’t as viable as 9mm…in the civilian market. I’ll go with something more regularly available and for a lot cheaper than bulk 10mm.
@@jasonkav we’re trying to fill a knockdown power requirement that your mom set
The FBI actually did contract about 200 10mm MP5s from HK. A LGS near me had one that originated from that contract for a while.
You are a wealth of knowledge on SF firearm usage history.
Love the "History with SF" series
Just got a SP5, perfect timing for this video.
This is THE video I've been waiting for. Wonderful photos (thank you for scanning and sharing). Few (often grainy/blurred) GWOT MP5 and UMP pics in the hands of US SOF have sort of floated around the internet for a while, but they had no credible or detailed context/explanation behind them. Very cool to know how these iconic SMGs finished off their service "in style".
And finally, there's an answer to how the curious UMPs showed up! I love these videos.
This channel is criminally underrated.
MP5's, Defender 110's, Timex Iorn Man...so much cool!!!
Greetings from India. MP5s were/are beloved by our special forces too. Fun fact, the first MP5s we got, were captured from Pakistani troops in 1970s, who had the license to locally produce them. It was evaluated by our SF, and they were so much better than our Sterlings we brought a lot of them from Germany in some "special" way 😂😂😂
You dont need to answer that, but were it beer-kegs?
Your channel is a true diamond in the rough of the thousands of tacti-cool operator/former operator channels. The lack of ridiculous music and over-edited cornball shooting scenes is such a breath of fresh air. Straight knowledge from someone who's been there done that. Keep it up mate!
Thanks!
I absolutely love hearing about your insight and experiences. It gives a Civ like me an idea of what it must've been like. I also love the history!
I saw UMPs overseas in SF arms rooms in 2017 in Afghanistan. I was a contractor at the time and didn't ask about any of that stuff back then.
Fairly recently discovered your channel, but I love it already. It's like Forgotten Weapons if Gun Jesus had actually used a lot of the stuff in deployment. Best combination ever. Thank you for having such an informative, easy to digest, fun to watch channel. I really appreciate your depth of knowledge on the subject matter and matter-of-fact approach
Thank You
Ian would never have said the words 'War on Terror' unironically.
It's as lame, vague and unachievable a statement as winning the 'War on Drugs'.
@@JimBrodie perhaps, but that's what it's being "officially" called. Not the channel to debate those semantics. I think it's way more about a shortcut than any sort of political or ideological assertion or agreement.
@@JimBrodie The time period is referred to as GWOT or the global war on terror. No matter if you agree or disagree, that's what people refer to it as.
By accepting it you are accepting an ideological assertion. That the US isn't actually the terrorist state.
Love your channel and the history lessons of guns and gear. I would label myself as a gear horder and can't seem to get enough. Thans for your service.
Had an mp5 at range i worked at. I put about 10,000 rounds through it over two or three years, I loved it.
Very interesting to see, thank you!
Here in Germany the MP5 is still in wide use by the police forces (and its special forces, such as the GSG-9).
This is due to the easy availability of the gun and spare parts (H&K is a german company) and the long tradition the MP5 has with the german police since the 1960's.
It also is simple to operate for regular officers who are mostly only trained on handguns.
More and more police departments are beginning to replace the MP5 with the newer MP7, though.
The german SWAT-teams ("SEK") and the famous GSG-9 (equivalent of the FBI's HRT) are replacing the MP5 with variants of the G36, STG-77, M416 and SCAR-L.
The UMP-45 saw limited use with the german police, let alone the armed forces.
To this day the MP5 still remains in widespread with both regular and, to a lesser degree, special police forces in Germany.
Blue Light had MP5s prior to the El Salvador mission. As you are aware, Blue Light was made up of ODAs from 5th & 7th SFG (A) and was in existence from about 1977ish- 78 ish. We used former Blue Light MP5s in SOT at Mott Lake in 1980.
Jeff, I was on ODA 515 from GW1 to 98’ after we stood up as a CIF. We got the M4A1 in spring on 95’ not 97’. We used the MP5 more when we had the M16A1/A2s as M4A1 was preferred. Later 03-06’ I also carried a MP5K or A3 in my GMV. Still saw MP5s on ODAs in Astan 17-21’. Last year 22’ had a 19th ODB in Baghdad with a few
How did u rate the mp 5?
@@vedantmehra6970 Second favorite Subgun. Prefer the Sterling SMG
That is the exact same configuration as my SP5. It's sitting here in my lap as I type this. I absolutely never get tired of watching MP5 content, and I handle my SP5 and my SP5K with awe and gratitude each time I I handle or gaze upon them. 😊
Lucky enough to,own one…love the history of the weapon. Put a Deadair Wolfman suppressor on it…enjoy.
That transition you do on the video is pretty solid. I have a SP5. Mainly got it for a range toy but it's become the home defense go to. Ive noticed transition to pistol with it is a lot easier than with my 16" AR. I also leave it loaded up with 2 clamped 30rd mags whenever I'm shooting out in the desert. Do mosy my practice with it at the indoor range. It's a handy and comforting weapon to have in situations that could get bad real quick where a carbine is impractical and only a pistol is a little too ambitious. Comes with me on road trips to. Thanks for your time and effort making this educational vieo. I really enjoyed all the pics and stories you shared in it.
I had a chance to fire a mp5 privately in 2001 and loved its ease of use. Later saw one mp5 carried one time on a security detail by a soldier in 2005 in Baghdad. I've used the sling tension method on zenith and ptr pistols and can get a few hits at 100. Still a great weapon.
My dad loves the MP5. He had the MP5K-PDW as a pilot.
I fell in love with that way back. I looked into getting an HK-94 when I was in Germany back in 85. I did get one at a pawn shop for about $875 in '87. Loved it.
After a few SPENDEX's burning up A 1/5's training ammo I got over the novelty of the MP5 and full auto in general.
Hey Jeff, Italian American here - I'm an older guy myself so I love all the classic stuff. Loved this video as with all of your videos! Thanks much
Another great video. Man, those 7th Group guys were my heroes. It was a big deal when they finally got to wear their CIBs openly, and they had some great stories. Your friend needs the Franklin Armory trigger, btw.
During my first deployment in late 2001, we were still using the MP5/K & SD. It was an excellent weapon for house clearing & CQB. By 07 we almost never used it due to the versatility of the M4 platform. However I always kept an MP5k in my backpack as a tertiary weapon.
Very nice weapon. I carried an MP5-A3SD2 for several years.
The MP5A4 was my first issued subgun. Loved that fixed stock.
Had the pleasure of getting to know 5th group feller "Caveman" while role playing in Robin Sage, awesome Dude one of the Horse Soldiers. We had a couple of MP5's that we would sell to the studs at our black market. Good times.
People poke fun at 5.11 for being overly conspicuous now, but during the 2000s they were THE brand for military and law enforcement.
My dad was a cop in the 2000s and the 5.11 duty boots with the zipper on the side were a godsend compared to wrestling the regular boots off and on every day.
Had HK UMP 45s at the SF Company level arms room as late as 2010 in 5th Group. Not sure what happened after that, but may have gone to LBAD. We picked up MP5s in Iraq during the initial invasion. Each ODA member had one, and when we left they were signed over to the incoming ODA.
I think the first famous operation of MP5 is solving the hijack of flight 181 in 1977, conducted by GSG9 with the support from SAS.
I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experiences with us. To younger historians such as myself, firsthand accounts like yours are literally priceless! So thank you for sharing, and for your service 🙏
Great job! Must've known my old Tm Ldr over at 107th MI LRSD, Jesse! Absolutely the great guy! Brave Rifles!
Thank You for your service, Very interesting information. Nice to have straight up information from a person that has been there and done that. Thank You again.
Deploying to EL Sal 1984. All SF were using AR-15s. I was stupid and did not take any choice of weapon in arms room and ended up with a M2 carbine and a Sw .38. In Afghanistan some were using MP5, but I felt they were too heavy and didn't have range I needed in bailout scenario. MP5s are sexy as sh*t to shoot.
We were issue with MP5's in 04 in Baghdad before moving over to SIG 552's, I was up in Kirkuk AFB late 2007, while using the SF ODA range at Kirkuk AFB, I went into the team armoury to trade for a Sterling 9mm smg that was found in a house search, the team had 1 .45acp UMP in the armoury as well as a MP5SD, the weapons SGT I was trading with confirmed both guns hardly left the armoury.
Anyone who has shot an MP-5 or a clone version understands why it is so popular. Accurate, reliable, virtually no recoil. It’s no wonder it was popular with SF, even with its limitations.
Waited for this vid for a bit. Glad it’s here!!
Super cool video Jeff! Keep up the good work with the good content
Thank You
I’ve seen all other channels on Special Forces but none could compare to this one as we have a former SF guy talks about all these fancy gears and service history. This channel deserves to get more attention
I agree!
@@ModernTacticalShooting sir could you please do a scar l/h used in SF? That would be great
That is an awesome weapon with an amazing history. Your service is appreciated, thank you. What an amazing story of your history with the MP5.
In March of 1998 I was just arriving at Ft Leonard Wood for basic wich was osut as I enlisted as 12B. Later I would come back for Sapper leader course. I was 17 in 1998.
Love this channel
I was waiting for MP5 from this channel and here we go!
My Agencies Tac Team, a few of us on our entry team still use MP5’s chambered in 40 cal, I love mine she runs like a sewing machine.
We used them for cqb for many missions. Once the location distances opened up. The M4 took over. In both cases, longer range handlers were attached to the units. I carried mine throughout as my secondary choice. My spotter had the Socom M1 and mp5. Marvelous weaponry.
In 1993, I worked for a company that made training systems for weapons. I got a chance to hold an HK MP5 SD3. I head read so much about the MP5 and I was amazed by that weapon. Now that I am a complete gun enthusiast, I hope to shoot one. HK has a great reputation and I'm sure it fires great.
One thing I’ll note: 1st SFOD-D (Delta Force) adopted the MP5 a year earlier in 1979. This was in immediate response to a joint training with SAS at Herefordshire where they practice storming aircraft. The Unit was so impressed with versatility inside the aircraft (and wanting an excuse to ditch their M3A1 Grease Guns) that they adopted and ordered them immediately.
As a side fun trivia. SAS themselves adopted the MP5 in 1977 after two members of the Special Projects Team participated in the Lufthansa Flight 181 rescue in Mogadishu where they saw GSG-9 running them.
Haha
I know that the UMP45 has been used by AWG in Afghanistan and is still in the armory of some ODA teams. Surefire made a custom surpressor for them too
I have noticed a consistent theme across your videos.
SF purchasing always buying something but never enough!
Great stuff. The last bit about the seldom mentioned UMP was the cherry on top.
Great work. Very good presentation. Thank you sir
The photos and videos you provide in your content is enough to watch the channel alone. Great stuff! Thanks for sharing
These videos are fantastic. Thank you for sharing your personal opinions on these small arms.
Thanks for taking time to put this video together. Really enjoyed it! Keep up the good work sir. 👌👍
Pops served with 10th SFG and was part of PSSE in Berlin in the 80s. The MP5 is still his favorite gun.
Very cool stuff once again Jeff! Always dropping top tier knowledge!
*A little too long? Heck, on the MP5's, I'm a career Marine and I'm goin' for some Coors and popcorn to watch it over again and hopefully part two! Semper Fi, MTS!*
In the Navy in the 80s and early 90s we still used CAR-15s/Colt commandos that were manufactured in the early 70s for use in Vietnam. We did every imaginable operation with them. They were handy in close quarters and medium range targets. During a joint op, the Air Force TACP/JTAC guys had them as well. Why they weren’t in more usage amongst the army SF teams is beyond me. We had MP5s as well but the mission dictated wether it would be carried.
One of my favorite eras! SF was issued the M16 and later M16A1 to replace their M2 Carbines in the early-mid 1960s.
Big Army issued XM177s and XM177E2s to Infantry Officers, K-9 Handlers, pilots, LRRPs, and some SF personnel. The XM177E2 was standard in SOG Recon Teams.
USAF SOF units got GAU-5A and later GAU-5A/A, which looked just like XM177/XM177E2 but with no forward assist. SF Son Tay Raiders used a lot of GAU-5A/As for the raid in 1970.
When 1st and 2nd Ranger Battalions were stood-up in 1974, officers, RTOs, and select key leaders got XM177E2s or Colt 653s (14.5" pencil barrel). There's a famous photo from Grenada '83 where a Ranger E-5 Mortar Team Leader is carrying a 653.
While each SF Group had various Colt Commando variants in their armories and at JFKSWCS, there weren't enough to equip all members on an ODA across Companies and Battalions.
So the M16A1 and later M16A2 were the standard shoulder-fired weapons on ODAs. SF had a leftover program from Blue Light where they used Colt Commandos for the assaulters, and M21s + R700 Bolt guns for Snipers, known as SOT out at Mott Lake, which later fed into SFARTAETC/CQB school at Range 37 on Bragg.
On the Navy side as you saw, there was a mix of M16A1s, M-14s, M60E3s, and Colt 653s in the 1980s.
The Communicators often carried Colt 653s with M203s, as did officers.
There's an old recruiting video I'm sure you saw where a black-clad SEAL CQB element fast-ropes onto an island and runs through the bunkered facility with Colt Commandos burning dudes dressed in Russian uniforms down, places a satchel charge, then exfils on Hueys.
Towards the late 1980s, NSW got the newer Colt 727 carbines with many of the M16A2 features like 1/7 twist, but with Fiberlite tele-stocks, and the 14.5" barrel with heavy forend and M203 bracket cut.
Those basically look like an M4 but with an M16A2 upper receiver, which differed in that they had extended feed ramps.
Ranger Regiment got those as well for key leaders and RTOs in the late 1980s, several of which were used in Mogadishu.
Army JSOC used the Colt 723 instead to replace their 653s and XM177E2s, especially as M855 became standardized in the 80s.
The Colt 723 had either an M16A1 or C7 upper receiver without the A2 rear sight assembly, 1/7 twist.
Navy JSOC had the 727 with A2 rear sight.
There were some very interesting mods made to those 723 and 727 carbines in both organizations before the M4A1 was fielded.
Thank you brother for your service! It's kind of wild your channel hasn't popped into my recommended yet, regardless I'm glad it did! You briefed this beautiful arm extension PERFECTLY! Pictures like you have throughout your explanation fit so well. Keep making more videos, subscribed and hope to see more like this soon! All of my guns fell into the ocean in a boat accident, so the only time I can shoot anything like this is when a friend of mine lends his to me for the day! Take care brother.
Great video with very interesting insights! Thank you for sharing your expirience with us.
What I allways say, never underestimate a pistol cartridge fired out of a longer sub machine barrle!
The great thing about PCC‘s is the interchangability of the ammunition and often also the magazines with your side arm.
Greetings from switzerland
Yeah it's amazing, as the MP5 SD used in the last year during the Vietnam War, while UMP (45 ACP ones too) used by some Green Berets from 5th SFG (A) units in Iraq in the early years of the Iraqi insurgency.
ummm.... the SD wasn't introduced until 1974... a full year after the US left the war. And it was really developed for the SAS. So... it couldn't have been used in the last year of the Vietnam war, right?
@@grappler240 We had some advisers there up until the last days before North Vietnam overran the South.
@@brettbaker5599 AHH... gotcha. I learned a thing today! Thanks!!
@@grappler240 They probably weren't using MP5SDs, though.
10:48 I just love the aesthetics of good old film!
Best video intro of all time? 🤔 Probably. Love these in depth gear history subjects in video format! Thanks Jeff 👍
The MP5SD with a solid stock is the sexiest subgun in existence.
Love that compilation at the end with the pop punk.
Fascinating episode. Thanks for telling us about your experience with the MP5. Just a cool looking weapon.
The UMP rate of fire seems good for 45 ACP. Consistent bursts with a Reising at 875 rpm can be a challenge on the clock or under stress. One round extra or fewer throws off my planned spread a bit.
Great video as always. When I was attached to C51 in Kabul in early 2002, the !8B carried a MP5 for the same reasons you talked about. in the video. I brought a real photographer's vest that got from B&H photo. I loved to shoot the MP5, but it was was damn heavy compared to the M4.
What an informative video from a veteran Green Berets. Really enjoyed
That was a fun video. Well done.
The childlike joy I felt when I saw this video show up in my feed.
One of the best videos I’ve seen on the tube in a long time 🙌🏾
Thank you
Was on 046 for a long time. We had them in our arms room, but with the exception of range use, really never drew them. Great guns though.
Excellent video
Jimbo Weatherford- that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I remember we got the M4 in 3/5 just before Haiti (94?). I remember getting the old long barrel SR25's from JOS back then. Did yall ever have that black body armor with the flat plates? I used the push method with the stock in w/ the M4 when wearing a pro mask. In fact I recall getting messed with by the instructors where you worked about that lol. When I worked at SWC I was able to go to the HK armorer course in Va- it was pretty interesting and I learned a lot about the MP5. I had a couple in afg,. and I loaned them to the terps that would actually go on the objective with us. By the time I got out, the MP5's that were still in the arms room were mostly used with sim kits for OPFOR. When I was a contractor 2012-2017 we had a MP5 SD at one of our sites- we used it on the base for the foxes and jackals that were always around. The K9 guys were totally not cool with those indig critters being in the area, I guess they were concerned their dogs would catch something from them . I remember I used to use a green HK sling on my M4 (which I liberated from a JOS MP5) until I discovered the much superior VTAC sling. I never heard of a UMP anywhere except 5th group. Cool video, nice walk down memory lane.
Great video, I was looking forward to it. Its so sad we didn't have modern type digital cameras back in the 80,s 90,s and early 2000s. Would've been some badass footage I'm sure
I built my MP5 from a flat and de-milled parts kit. It’s by far my favorite gun.
Never saw any subguns with any of the SF guys I've worked with in Afghanistan, it was pretty much all M4s or MK18s though I did see a few SCAR 17s and Benelli M4s. As for handguns it was a mix of M9s, 1911s, Glocks and SIG P226s.
My new favorite channel.
I think I remember someone calling the luck with the 511 vest the “Tactical fisherman.”
I used MP5SD a lot, shooting off lights and cameras around the building..etc.doing CQB.good video, we used that vest also
In my professional opinion, the MP5 is by far the absolute best SMG. It's an absolute Mercedes design put into a weapon that is stupid accurate even at high volumes of fire. Lightweight, good area around the magazine and trigger to allow for equipment. It has very rounded areas to prevent it from catching on equipment. The roller actuating bolt design is just the creme on top. Great recap on this iconic, multi-faceted weapon. I often have to explain to younger veterans and service members that we didn't even have red dots let alone ACOGs or any really purpose built optics for our service rifles. It was all iron sights even on the heavier machine guns. It was wild to witness the massive tech shift from 2001-2021 in weapons and gear. It was an amazing ride. It was like someone finally realized that using tech to solve problems was acceptable. Even seeing the 82nd finally realized the old T-10B was a shit chute which injured way more soldier, sailors, and airmen than need be.
I had no issues with the T-10 over many years, almost all jumps were with real rucks, combat equipment, night, 800-900ft AGL.
Another reason I like the MP5... it doesn't ruin your buddies hearing/giving them concussions or yourself like an M4 or Mk 18 (even with ear pro) in a building or car.
What's your opinion on having a suppressor for plain clothes recce and protection detail?
It kind of amazes me that the BAR and older WWII guns were being used by the Green Berets in the 70s.
Not really since they tend to work with insurgents. You use what the locals use, including their horses!
The BAR is amazing, just as long as you don't have carry it. Smooooooth.
@@dangvorbei5304 My grandfather carried the BAR in ww2 he was 6'3 225 pounds.
@@timlongstreet1801 The joke goes something like, the BAR weighs 15.98 pounds. After the tenth mile the decimal point falls out. Still, what a weapon.
THAT WAS JUST GREAT SO DETAILED, YOU SPEA WELL ADDRESS THE POINTS THANKS FOR THE TIME YOU PUT IN
We tested the MP 5's at 5th Group in, I believe, 1977. We all concurred it was state of the art and everyone gave it the thumbs up. Unfortunately, we wern't issued them while I was at Bragg.
Thanks
Love the history of sf's weapons series as always. Very informable contents with great details! I remembered seeing that pic of sF guy with a ump45 when i was in the high school and i thought it was self-purchased at the time, never knew that they were issued to sfg until today. I'm not sure if it's true but someone mentioned that cag had some ump45 with cans as well at the time to take out the sentries since 45acp is sub-sonic which is preferable when suppressed. Mp7 and mp5sd were used as a similar role until the adoption of 300blk. Btw can't wait to see your review on 416s☺️
THE OLD POODLE SHOOTER!!!! I carried an SD when I first got on the SWAT Team. Hated it. Shoot ONE round... it's filthy. Moved on to a Navy Model as soon as one opened up. Never wanted one of the Ks we had. Thankfully, the Colt Commandos came soon after. Great little gun (the MP5)... but it's just a pistol. Beats the damned UZI, though, so there is that.
this channel rocks. So glad to see it growing.