for me, the worst thing about steve isn't even about steve, but the game as a whole: labbing AGAINST a character is nigh impossible without a second player to help you. the training mode is nonexistent to awful in ultimate. i always think "man smash players just don't do ANY sort of labbing or training, all they do is complain!" but then i think about how the training mode is explicitly NOT set up to allow you to create or replicate ANY sort of setups or scenarios so you can even learn how to escape. steve would be NOWHERE near as bad if you could actually lab against him properly on your own time. also, fun fact: Leroy fucking destroyed EVO Japan multiple times and ruined the game for a lot of people, and people were STILL hype for his trailer in Tekken 8
True cuz ive tries showing concepts of steve counterplay and tried to get help labbing in the steve discord and basically noone wants to listen or help so Ive given up. Even with the training modpack, its still a hassle
Steve would still be bar none broken and unnacceptably overtuned even if training mode was perfect, it's broken by design. Steve needs nerfs, Leroy had several patches of nerfs to his entire kit, move after move was gradually chipped away until they made him an honest high tier and not three tiers above the rest, so we can finally be excited for Leroy again.
It was hilarious recently seeing on Twitter "So with the past 6 months of Steve banned, thoughts on health of the game?"🤓 *Past 6 months of Steve being legal for Majors*
I remember a few years ago one of my friends banned edge guarding and hitting someone more than twice before hitting the ground after he told me that I stop playing games with him
Man I didn't know about Labcoat 21's actual reason to be OP, I've only seen her just be used a lot and never bothered to see why. I feel exactly the same as Coney when going against a Jamie, he does way too many small hits and I haven't done jack for training against him so I can't ever find the opening.
Yeah, 21 dragged out games by applying that permanent debuff to each character. It was rough. For Jamie, you just have to pressure him when he wants to drink, then watch for sweeping lows.
Labcoat was RIDICULOUS pre-nerf, and she’s still among the best even after the patch. The debuff, her three different lows, EX lariat, the stomp combos, her super fast beam, and a command grab to further add to her mix makes her a nightmare
17:05 That's really the funniest part about the entire Ban Steve movement. I'd honestly argue that most people in the Brawl and Smash 4 era wanted MK/Icies and Bayo gone but there was just enough dissent/concern over whether it was the right decision or not that we didn't pull the trigger. Hindsight has shown us that banning was 100% the right move in both of those instances, so seeing the community potentially make the mistake a third time is funny and also really sad. Hopefully the next Smash game manages to not have 1 or 2 characters that are at best bordering on banworthy and at worst so toxic that they kill a huge portion of the scene and demolish the legacy of the games. Either that, or maybe fourth time will be the charm on actually banning the fucking problem.
@@morphstarchangeling8024 Being the best doesn't make him bannable. It's the both his broken tech and how much resources would it take TOs to point out when and where it was used that makes it more effective to simply ban him (even though he's been legal in most majors, so the "ban" has never felt like an actual thing to begin with).
:Let's talk about an anime fg Coney: Ew :Guilty Gear Coney: Oh yeah I played this game! Justice!! Man Coney really knows nothing about anime but the fact he needs to hate it like that comment said, with the hi fi stuff and this it's hilarious ngl
Lab Coat 21 is one of those shocking types of broken you always hear about but just assume is exaggeration. Outside of boss characters in old Arcade games, she's up there with the best of of them.
@@Eroil Yep, there was a couple hundred bucks on offer for anyone who actually pulled it off in tournament in a useful way. Stayed up for a few months. No one took it.
@@char1194 ok ok, i'm sorry, i didn't know that, I don't follow competitve smash that closely, I just heard the uproar when that tech was descovered and didn't rlly keep updated on it...
To quote another RUclips comment: "Banning wobbling is my favorite analogy, because it was a single instance of something breaking the risk reward structure too much. Steve is running up against accusations of being a whole character of near wobbling, putting its hands in the face of these accusations, and going 'im not touching you im not touching you'"
@junk_bot_man6412 yeah I doubt that would happen. I think a lot of people don't realise the top 5 characters in this game are all broken so you can just take your pick of goofy
so like the way Ult is designed, no character will ever truly be "over-centralizing." There's too much expression and viability sprinkled across the entire cast. Meta Knight was everywhere because he ignored what made Brawl "boring" or "lame" and literally no one else could replicate that. Smash 4 had a pretty tight nit group of S tiers, but they were still diverse and strong enough that no one felt like they were losing out by not playing Bayo or Cloud. Melee's meta is entirely different and kinda irrelevant here, and then I know jack dick about 64. The only reason Steve should even be considered for a ban is how capable he is of constricting match ups. Like, there are bad match ups in every game, but Smash's MU charts can get pretty volatile, and the way Steve shits on other characters is fundamentally different from how other characters get shit on, and also fundamentally demoralizing. There's adapting, then there's completely rewriting how you have to play and approach the game because of all his tools and what he can do with them. Doc, for example, can slowly adapt to Cloud's disjoints and Limit despite how vastly superior Cloud is to him, but Doc can't really adapt to a moving command grab, self-comboing normals, and ledge-trapping. Doc has to be preemptively mindful of all the crap that can happen to him, and play in an entirely different way just to keep himself from losing. This is just one example out of 89, but it's still a consistent concept across the majority of the cast. This constriction isn't even unhealthy or even hard to deal with long term, but it _is_ really draining and, most importantly, not fun, and that's all it comes down to. You have to put a lot of energy and thought into the Steve MU if you're an actual competitor, on top of all the other potential MUs, so it's a question of whether people want to play Smash Ultimate or Smash Ultimate + The Steve Experience in tournament. He also just looks really stupid in motion so... Yeah, that's probs another layer to it all. Oh, and training mode is garbage so actually practicing against Steve's weird nonsense is impossible unless you know a good one. Anyways, thanks for reading my ramblings. Have a great day.
I think Steve should he banned because he's both obnoxiously good and if he is overcentralizing which genuinely could happen, the smash ultimate scene is over. We aren't gonna be able to ban him because Steve mains wouldn't allow it, and the game would suck. The only thing saving Bayo, MK and earlier melee fox from not being too bad is that they're overcentralizing but they aren't campy so atleast they're not too bad to watch.
@@hunbi1875 MK was one of the campiest characters of all time for the majority of brawls lifespan bruh, don't try and seem like you know what you are talking about when you very clearly don't.
@@callanharvey6264his combos were at least a lot more fast and good looking, and brawl genially didn’t have combos outside of him, so all characters were campy
In my house all levels in Mario Kart Double Dash that contained chain chomps were banned since it caused my sister and I to burst into tears because of how scary they were!
Someone in the background at 17:51 brings up an interesting point. "Steve does have a few bad matchups but people refuse to switch characters." It kind of harkens back to that whole "a skilled Roy can beat any Fox" comment that Melee is famous for (which actually happened btw when some dude, I forget who, destroyed an entire tournament as solo Roy). I think people in Ultimate are too accustomed to top tier meta picks that they refuse to "stoop" to a character who is a few cuts under and actually experiment. Like what if Little Mac had some weird gimmick that 100% countered a character like Rob or Smash 4 Bay? Despite being a joke character, you can bet your ass EVERYONE would have a pocket Little Mac for matchups like that. I bet the Steve counter is out there and we just don't know it yet. My gut tells me Sora has a decent shot with the floaty jumps and the three dashes to get around Steve's weird form of edge guarding but I fell off of Ultimate right around Sephiroth so obviously take my thoughts with a grain of salt. The "skilled Roy" meme got dunked on for years though until it actually happened, that's all I'm saying. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Steve isn't nearly the polarizing matchup we think it is, he just has a good matchup against a lot of the established top tiers. Also this is not propaganda, I would much rather have Sakurai step back in and nerf Steve, Aegis, and Kazuya (and Rob and maybe Pikachu while we're at it, but especially Steve) and buff a lot of the bottom tiers (why is Ridley SO AWFUL intentionally??) but as far as we know that just isn't in the cards so we just have to experiment and cross our fingers.
Also Pikachu is 13th on the list so you’ll have to nerf sonic fox wolf peach/daisy cloud diddy kong Roy and joker, so pretty much nerfing everything in S teir which includes a few more like Pac-Man
He got unbanned in Mississippi just cause pr players from Louisiana and in state played him and they didn't want them to stop coming to locals. They don't dominate, I took them last stock each game with puff. I just don't care Abt Steve anymore
Nah, Cloud and Diddy would have still been really fucking annoying and rage being as jank as it was would have made the game just as cheese. Bayonetta was not the problem with Sm4sh lol
@@morphstarchangeling8024 there's no point in arguing it years later. It was determined even while Sm4sh was still being played that she was not dominant enough to warrant a ban and people continued to complain. Rage was ultimately the problem with the game in general and was a big reason why Bayonetta was as cheesy as she was. She was still nowhere near as bad as pre patch Diddy and wasn't even an overcentralzing force. Smash players need to learn that a character being cheesy or boring to watch does not warrant a ban lol.
The goofball default skins from Minecraft being the best characters in Ultimate and making people mad as hell and sparking a million arguments is probably the funniest outcome, I'm glad I don't play competitive so I can instead laugh at the situation
Fym, Kazuya is good, people just need to learn counter measures. Steve was the issue, he was a pain to both implement and design. Steve's main flaws come down to his faithfulness to Minecraft, it makes his animations too similar
How many literal whos have you seen switch to solo Kazuya and win supermajors or even just majors? How about asking yourself the same thing about Steve, instead? Yeah, your bias is glaringly showing here.
@@fink_rata the problem is he isnt faithful enough to minecraft, steve should be losing all of his resources on death, minecart isnt even an attack in minecraft its just a dumb bs move, why didnt they giv him a bow instead. Ender pearls wouldve been a WAY cooler recovery than elytra and couldve been also used as a cool mix up approach, he shouldnt be able to place blocks mid air. Steve had sooo much potential to be cool and faithful to minecraft but sakurai just wanted that sweet dlc p2w money. Steve deserved better 😢
I hate that Steve was banned in Texas. Not because he's fun to play vs, but because when I go to majors I always lose to Steve players cause I never had to learn the MU
@@Josh_uahe might, but he would have a better chance. If he wants to do better, he can learn the match up if he wants. You can still train vs Steve, Texas won't stop you
people said this exact thing was gonna happen prior to ban and look where we are now. Not to be in poor taste but if you can't play against a character, of course at higher level you're not gonna have the ability to deal with him due to not having experience.
i know melee has a rule for camping. does ultimate have a rule against camping or defensive play? steve mostly plays defensive and campy with what i've seen, so can't player call a judge for ruling against a campy steve or campy character?
Bro idk if I’m just bad or something but Jamie really isn’t all that good. He’s got half of his useful kit locked behind his drink mechanic and the most reliable way to get a drink is to combo into it which is hard because he doesn’t have good approach options and also can’t keep pressure from a distance due to a lack of projectile. The only thing he could really ever do to hurt you is IF he can hit you when he has a drink or two and a meter
I lowkey think it should, since games get sponsored by how many people view them, if a character feels boring for the communitty that would affect the game life, people would start leaving the game and holding the success of it, most of the comunitty would suffer just for the minority to be happy
@@cesarTorres-lj1df People said Puff was gonna kill melee and then she didn’t Majority opinion can be wrong and change on a dime and given how unlikely it is that bans get e.g. mii brawler in smash 4 I would say that a character would have to be proven to be over centralizing to be banned
@@mrpatman1163 im not talking about killing the game, smash is not going to die, but it will hurt its growth, you can already see a big difference in numbers when steve/sonic/olimar etc. Are the characters in the top 8, then ZSS/joker/fox/falcon etc.
Steve is a complicated character and banning him is a task that’s just as complicated. I think he should be banned, but it’s hard to create a full international ban if Japan continues to be so stubborn about banning him and if PMLG, which is the main reason why Steve bans came about, continues to lack practical data to show how good or overrated it truly is
i remember when people were trying their hardest to justify sheeva's jump attack shit in MK11 and just get wiped the floor with when the dev patch nerfed it. all of a sudden everyone was saying the move was broken and needed to be nerfed. a bunch of bandwagoners - worthless
Command grab super that increases her own attack and reduces the opposing character's attack by 21% for the remainder of the game. It even remains through tag-outs, and can be used against all three opponents if given the opportunity. (Does not further increase 21's Attack.)
The Meta of smash ultimate is a death sentence for the longetivity of the game. Nobody respects the game, nobody respects better players. Its a party game.
Matthew 13:18-23 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
I've said it before, I'll say it again the *reason* for the Steve ban was because of a *glitch* they had to *look for* because it never came up *in tournament* between all the time Steve has been out and the time Steve was banned (in some places). If ya'll just went the Meta Knight or Bayonetta route and said "too OP", that would be perfectly fine. But NO, you deadass tried to intellectualize the entire thing and just ended up clowning yourselves The ban itself is whatever, the *reason* behind it made me lose brain cells
Steve's not only banned for the bug he has, but also because people find him to be lame. Players don't want to play against Steves and viewers don't want to watch Steves, so the ban was to prevent a decline in attendees and viewership (although, the ban did cause a lot of Steve players to stop attending tournaments and as a result decreased the amount of entries).
Sounds like the competitive community needs to suck it up. *The character is lame* is absolutely no grounds in any form of logic to warrant a ban! People that watch the competitive scene and the competitive players themselves needs to shut up and play the game and stop whining!
@@DANCERcow What kind of argument is this? We all play Smash for fun. Why would people want to spend money and free time powering through something they find annoying and lame? If it actually comes to that people will just stop playing.
the problem with the steve ban is that there's 4 other broken top tiers that nobody seems to have an issue with, it's just that steve is harder to come up with counterplay for because they have to actually think about what steve is doing and they're just used to mashing buttons. also they banned him because of a bug (which people have already found counterplay for) and i think that's lame
Whatabout-ism is such a rubbish defense. Other characters being good doesn't change how stupid and op Steve is. He can camp, has absurdly easy combos, and is just boring to watch.
@@StriderZessei "he can camp, has absurdly easy combos, and is boring to watch" describes more characters than Steve, and by that logic, we should ban characters like Luigi and Rob. yall just giving steve special treatment because he wasn't the character you wanted
Back when MKX was the rage, I had some friends that said you couldnt use the same move twice in a row because that was spamming, and when I say move I mean it. You hit low 2 twice in a row? You are done get out of here thats banned, your combo wants you to use forward 3,4 three times in a row to get maximum damage? You better find a different route or else they would just not play the game. I ended up not playing with them due to it.
Maybe so, but his impact on the top level meta is wayyyy less. We're over 2.5 years into Steve in Smash and there's like three Steves solidly in the top 50. 2.5 years after Bayo's release for Smash 4 there were five Bayo players in the top 10 and another six in the top 50. That's over 20% of top level players having Bayo as a main or secondary.
@@EmperorPenguin1217 they are comparable in some ways. Touch of death combos as well as being the best characters in their games. Plus extremely hated by the community. Only thing Steve is missing is being as centralizing as Bayo was. Even then, Smash 4 didn’t have that many top level bayos. I think there was 4. In Ultimate there are two Steve at top level and a few top players have him as secondaries.
Excellent Clickbait, “We have to think this through” as the title and Steve in the thumbnail even though he doesn’t even really discuss banning Steve other than like, “it wouldn’t affect me personally tho lol too bad for you guys but my skin in the game isn’t the same as yours 😈”
I mean at the end of the day it was a smart move nintendo wants money and honestly It was hella smart to add Steve he’s iconic and pulling in a whole new demographic of players to smash and in turn a lot more money steve was by far the best choice on nintendos end
for me, the worst thing about steve isn't even about steve, but the game as a whole:
labbing AGAINST a character is nigh impossible without a second player to help you. the training mode is nonexistent to awful in ultimate. i always think "man smash players just don't do ANY sort of labbing or training, all they do is complain!" but then i think about how the training mode is explicitly NOT set up to allow you to create or replicate ANY sort of setups or scenarios so you can even learn how to escape. steve would be NOWHERE near as bad if you could actually lab against him properly on your own time.
also, fun fact: Leroy fucking destroyed EVO Japan multiple times and ruined the game for a lot of people, and people were STILL hype for his trailer in Tekken 8
True cuz ive tries showing concepts of steve counterplay and tried to get help labbing in the steve discord and basically noone wants to listen or help so Ive given up. Even with the training modpack, its still a hassle
Steve would still be bar none broken and unnacceptably overtuned even if training mode was perfect, it's broken by design. Steve needs nerfs, Leroy had several patches of nerfs to his entire kit, move after move was gradually chipped away until they made him an honest high tier and not three tiers above the rest, so we can finally be excited for Leroy again.
I can imagine Steve would break Twitter again when announced in Smash 6 👀
What’s lobbing?
labbing is going into practice mode and trying out certain situations@@jayde4872
Steve is such a goofy character that if he wasn’t the best character in the game by a considerable margin, the community would love him
Yes. Blame Nintendo
If he wasn't campy as hell, he'd be a lot more enjoyable to watch.
i love him
@micahbarrus8406 what if the steve doesn't camp?
Steve should be a mid or high tier; if he was i think he would be loved like donkey kong or captain falcon
It was hilarious recently seeing on Twitter "So with the past 6 months of Steve banned, thoughts on health of the game?"🤓
*Past 6 months of Steve being legal for Majors*
I remember a few years ago one of my friends banned edge guarding and hitting someone more than twice before hitting the ground after he told me that I stop playing games with him
my friend doesn’t allow me to use rest on jigglypuff or he stops playing
I swear to God my friends banned edge guarding because it was lame I had to basically make a yeet smash compilation before they changed their minds
How dare you play the game against me
You guys need new friends lol
Man I didn't know about Labcoat 21's actual reason to be OP, I've only seen her just be used a lot and never bothered to see why.
I feel exactly the same as Coney when going against a Jamie, he does way too many small hits and I haven't done jack for training against him so I can't ever find the opening.
Yeah, 21 dragged out games by applying that permanent debuff to each character. It was rough.
For Jamie, you just have to pressure him when he wants to drink, then watch for sweeping lows.
Labcoat was RIDICULOUS pre-nerf, and she’s still among the best even after the patch. The debuff, her three different lows, EX lariat, the stomp combos, her super fast beam, and a command grab to further add to her mix makes her a nightmare
@@Connor_Kirkpatrick... she has 6 lows.
17:05 That's really the funniest part about the entire Ban Steve movement. I'd honestly argue that most people in the Brawl and Smash 4 era wanted MK/Icies and Bayo gone but there was just enough dissent/concern over whether it was the right decision or not that we didn't pull the trigger. Hindsight has shown us that banning was 100% the right move in both of those instances, so seeing the community potentially make the mistake a third time is funny and also really sad. Hopefully the next Smash game manages to not have 1 or 2 characters that are at best bordering on banworthy and at worst so toxic that they kill a huge portion of the scene and demolish the legacy of the games. Either that, or maybe fourth time will be the charm on actually banning the fucking problem.
@TreyMM-qz4wgHe's quite literally the best character in the game on the official tier list
@@morphstarchangeling8024 Being the best doesn't make him bannable. It's the both his broken tech and how much resources would it take TOs to point out when and where it was used that makes it more effective to simply ban him (even though he's been legal in most majors, so the "ban" has never felt like an actual thing to begin with).
@TreyMM-qz4wgFound the Steve player
@TreyMM-qz4wg Have you ever fought a high ranked Steve? Like a very high GSP or a good local Steve? That might change your mind
There's nothing wrong with steve. just a skill issue
The screen fading to black as Coney complains about Falco is hysterical
I seriously had whiplash thinking that i missed funky kong in soul calibur
the 21 move is like, 10 frame grab with delayed invulnerability. its insane.
:Let's talk about an anime fg
Coney: Ew
:Guilty Gear
Coney: Oh yeah I played this game! Justice!!
Man Coney really knows nothing about anime but the fact he needs to hate it like that comment said, with the hi fi stuff and this it's hilarious ngl
Lab Coat 21 is one of those shocking types of broken you always hear about but just assume is exaggeration. Outside of boss characters in old Arcade games, she's up there with the best of of them.
I thought steve got banned because of the glitch that lets you exit hitstun?
Ah yes, the tech that has literally never once been used in bracket despite there actively being a bounty for pulling it off.
@@char1194is there a bounty for it? Haven't heard of that yet
@@Eroil Yep, there was a couple hundred bucks on offer for anyone who actually pulled it off in tournament in a useful way. Stayed up for a few months. No one took it.
@@char1194 ok ok, i'm sorry, i didn't know that, I don't follow competitve smash that closely, I just heard the uproar when that tech was descovered and didn't rlly keep updated on it...
@@espeka1207wasn't it literally banned from tournaments so no one even bothers learning it?
To quote another RUclips comment:
"Banning wobbling is my favorite analogy, because it was a single instance of something breaking the risk reward structure too much.
Steve is running up against accusations of being a whole character of near wobbling, putting its hands in the face of these accusations, and going 'im not touching you im not touching you'"
Not to mention his combo-breaking glitch tech that punishes players for HITTING HIM. Banning him is absolutely the right move.
The audio on this video was all over the place. Please have more consistent sound levels.
Please have more erratic sound levels it makes the video more exciting
Im so sad because hes so funny so i like watching him
It's funny until he becomes the only one in tournaments, Super Steven Bros Ultimate
@junk_bot_man6412 yeah I doubt that would happen. I think a lot of people don't realise the top 5 characters in this game are all broken so you can just take your pick of goofy
Nah, I find steve super unfun to watch, because he just looks so unfair and bullshit
@@ckorp666 no
@@Myst1c_OWno no. Hes got a point. The community is a circus so we should have fitting sounds
so like the way Ult is designed, no character will ever truly be "over-centralizing." There's too much expression and viability sprinkled across the entire cast. Meta Knight was everywhere because he ignored what made Brawl "boring" or "lame" and literally no one else could replicate that. Smash 4 had a pretty tight nit group of S tiers, but they were still diverse and strong enough that no one felt like they were losing out by not playing Bayo or Cloud. Melee's meta is entirely different and kinda irrelevant here, and then I know jack dick about 64.
The only reason Steve should even be considered for a ban is how capable he is of constricting match ups. Like, there are bad match ups in every game, but Smash's MU charts can get pretty volatile, and the way Steve shits on other characters is fundamentally different from how other characters get shit on, and also fundamentally demoralizing. There's adapting, then there's completely rewriting how you have to play and approach the game because of all his tools and what he can do with them.
Doc, for example, can slowly adapt to Cloud's disjoints and Limit despite how vastly superior Cloud is to him, but Doc can't really adapt to a moving command grab, self-comboing normals, and ledge-trapping. Doc has to be preemptively mindful of all the crap that can happen to him, and play in an entirely different way just to keep himself from losing. This is just one example out of 89, but it's still a consistent concept across the majority of the cast.
This constriction isn't even unhealthy or even hard to deal with long term, but it _is_ really draining and, most importantly, not fun, and that's all it comes down to. You have to put a lot of energy and thought into the Steve MU if you're an actual competitor, on top of all the other potential MUs, so it's a question of whether people want to play Smash Ultimate or Smash Ultimate + The Steve Experience in tournament.
He also just looks really stupid in motion so... Yeah, that's probs another layer to it all. Oh, and training mode is garbage so actually practicing against Steve's weird nonsense is impossible unless you know a good one.
Anyways, thanks for reading my ramblings. Have a great day.
I think Steve should he banned because he's both obnoxiously good and if he is overcentralizing which genuinely could happen, the smash ultimate scene is over. We aren't gonna be able to ban him because Steve mains wouldn't allow it, and the game would suck. The only thing saving Bayo, MK and earlier melee fox from not being too bad is that they're overcentralizing but they aren't campy so atleast they're not too bad to watch.
Also I think the restrictive MU point can also be said for other characters, mostly Sonic .
@@hunbi1875 MK was one of the campiest characters of all time for the majority of brawls lifespan bruh, don't try and seem like you know what you are talking about when you very clearly don't.
Then there's the fact you can get punished for attacking him
@@callanharvey6264his combos were at least a lot more fast and good looking, and brawl genially didn’t have combos outside of him, so all characters were campy
I would like to thank verb_atom for noticing my Puli suggestion. Watching coney’s sheer disbelief was absolutely worth it.
steve has insane zero to deaths its crazy
sometimes i see a video essay and i question whether i should watch it bc i know coney’s gonna watch it and i might as well wait to watch that video.
Reaction culture bby
In my house all levels in Mario Kart Double Dash that contained chain chomps were banned since it caused my sister and I to burst into tears because of how scary they were!
Grow up
@@austin_f Bro did not detect the use of past tense in that sentence!
@@austin_fdudes out here insulting literal children!
Grow up!
@@austin_f Incels try not to go after children challenge. LEVEL IMPOSSIBLE
@@austin_f based
Someone in the background at 17:51 brings up an interesting point. "Steve does have a few bad matchups but people refuse to switch characters." It kind of harkens back to that whole "a skilled Roy can beat any Fox" comment that Melee is famous for (which actually happened btw when some dude, I forget who, destroyed an entire tournament as solo Roy). I think people in Ultimate are too accustomed to top tier meta picks that they refuse to "stoop" to a character who is a few cuts under and actually experiment. Like what if Little Mac had some weird gimmick that 100% countered a character like Rob or Smash 4 Bay? Despite being a joke character, you can bet your ass EVERYONE would have a pocket Little Mac for matchups like that. I bet the Steve counter is out there and we just don't know it yet. My gut tells me Sora has a decent shot with the floaty jumps and the three dashes to get around Steve's weird form of edge guarding but I fell off of Ultimate right around Sephiroth so obviously take my thoughts with a grain of salt. The "skilled Roy" meme got dunked on for years though until it actually happened, that's all I'm saying.
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Steve isn't nearly the polarizing matchup we think it is, he just has a good matchup against a lot of the established top tiers.
Also this is not propaganda, I would much rather have Sakurai step back in and nerf Steve, Aegis, and Kazuya (and Rob and maybe Pikachu while we're at it, but especially Steve) and buff a lot of the bottom tiers (why is Ridley SO AWFUL intentionally??) but as far as we know that just isn't in the cards so we just have to experiment and cross our fingers.
All the heavy characters are low on the official tier list the highest bing bowser I think who is still in the bottom half
What’s a aegis. (This is the name for pyra and mythara)
Also Pikachu is 13th on the list so you’ll have to nerf sonic fox wolf peach/daisy cloud diddy kong Roy and joker, so pretty much nerfing everything in S teir which includes a few more like Pac-Man
He got unbanned in Mississippi just cause pr players from Louisiana and in state played him and they didn't want them to stop coming to locals. They don't dominate, I took them last stock each game with puff. I just don't care Abt Steve anymore
Music a tad bit too loud at the beginning.
“oh my god I’m mad as hell I’m not gonna take it anymore.”
They mention boss characters and no SNK games. THE GUYS KNOWN FOR BROKEN BOSS CHARACTERS
rugal isn't straight up banned but the entire population of mexico will be ashamed
I think that Bayonetta would have been banned if Ultimate was never announced, and at that point, Smash 4 would have been really cool
Nah, Cloud and Diddy would have still been really fucking annoying and rage being as jank as it was would have made the game just as cheese. Bayonetta was not the problem with Sm4sh lol
@@cpvidscenteralYou didn't argue anything against bayo being banned had smash 4 kept going without ultimate being announced.
@@morphstarchangeling8024 because he was pushing back on the claim that Smash 4 would have been really cool post Bayo-ban
@@morphstarchangeling8024 there's no point in arguing it years later. It was determined even while Sm4sh was still being played that she was not dominant enough to warrant a ban and people continued to complain. Rage was ultimately the problem with the game in general and was a big reason why Bayonetta was as cheesy as she was. She was still nowhere near as bad as pre patch Diddy and wasn't even an overcentralzing force. Smash players need to learn that a character being cheesy or boring to watch does not warrant a ban lol.
@@cpvidscenteralthe cope is real.
The goofball default skins from Minecraft being the best characters in Ultimate and making people mad as hell and sparking a million arguments is probably the funniest outcome, I'm glad I don't play competitive so I can instead laugh at the situation
Did no one in chat tell Coney that it wasn't even Abigail in the sf5 clip at the start?
16:33 that’s cammy for me, her buttons are incredibly good at midrange
You ever think how Kazuya and Steve wouldn’t be a problem if the smash dev team just decided to do their job for 6 more months
Covid is much more a factor
@@competitively3315well. Patches
Fym, Kazuya is good, people just need to learn counter measures. Steve was the issue, he was a pain to both implement and design. Steve's main flaws come down to his faithfulness to Minecraft, it makes his animations too similar
How many literal whos have you seen switch to solo Kazuya and win supermajors or even just majors? How about asking yourself the same thing about Steve, instead? Yeah, your bias is glaringly showing here.
@@fink_rata the problem is he isnt faithful enough to minecraft, steve should be losing all of his resources on death, minecart isnt even an attack in minecraft its just a dumb bs move, why didnt they giv him a bow instead. Ender pearls wouldve been a WAY cooler recovery than elytra and couldve been also used as a cool mix up approach, he shouldnt be able to place blocks mid air. Steve had sooo much potential to be cool and faithful to minecraft but sakurai just wanted that sweet dlc p2w money. Steve deserved better 😢
I hate that Steve was banned in Texas. Not because he's fun to play vs, but because when I go to majors I always lose to Steve players cause I never had to learn the MU
You'd lose regardless because its Steve. Sorry to spoil.
@@Josh_uahe might, but he would have a better chance. If he wants to do better, he can learn the match up if he wants. You can still train vs Steve, Texas won't stop you
people said this exact thing was gonna happen prior to ban and look where we are now. Not to be in poor taste but if you can't play against a character, of course at higher level you're not gonna have the ability to deal with him due to not having experience.
@@Josh_ua skill issue
Wanted to see Noob Saibot in MK Trilogy get a mention,
But pre 2011 MK is not very well known, I guess.
Oh well.
Coney's expression in the thumbnail reminds me of that gif of the black announcer going "USE YOUR COMMON SENSE!"
11:10 They forgot to mention that it’s also a grab. So it’s unblockable.
Petshop feels like a character Sonix would use if he played JoJo
lab coat was the definition of a busted character and someone that needed to be ban
If they patched out PHANTOM BLOCK.
Maybe i would be able to play one of my favorite characters without getting fucking yelled at
i know melee has a rule for camping. does ultimate have a rule against camping or defensive play? steve mostly plays defensive and campy with what i've seen, so can't player call a judge for ruling against a campy steve or campy character?
No otherwise sonic and Rosalina would be banned
14:20 best search suggestion
I miss coney 😢
So tragic...
Huh ? What happened?
UUUUUUU
@@zephyr244Trust me, you DON'T wanna know.
Luigi is a grappler
Of all the awful Coney takes, calling Sugar ugly is one of the worst
13:00 Coney has good taste in dogs! I own an Australian Cattle Dog named Jimmy!!
15:00 Fox Melee
I FORGOT labcoat got banned, she was BUSTED! Still kinda is I hear. I should play that game again!
Anyone know the name of the song in the beginning?
Bro idk if I’m just bad or something but Jamie really isn’t all that good. He’s got half of his useful kit locked behind his drink mechanic and the most reliable way to get a drink is to combo into it which is hard because he doesn’t have good approach options and also can’t keep pressure from a distance due to a lack of projectile. The only thing he could really ever do to hurt you is IF he can hit you when he has a drink or two and a meter
Steve is what would have happened to Icies in melee if wobbling was basically impossible to detect without VOD review
And if wobbling was impossible to humanly do in a real match
@@EmperorPenguin1217 I mean invisible block isn’t impossible but go off I guess
I don't think any character or technique should be banned just because "people don't like it"
So you agree that wobbling should be unbanned?
I lowkey think it should, since games get sponsored by how many people view them, if a character feels boring for the communitty that would affect the game life, people would start leaving the game and holding the success of it, most of the comunitty would suffer just for the minority to be happy
@@cesarTorres-lj1df People said Puff was gonna kill melee and then she didn’t
Majority opinion can be wrong and change on a dime and given how unlikely it is that bans get e.g. mii brawler in smash 4 I would say that a character would have to be proven to be over centralizing to be banned
@@mrpatman1163 im not talking about killing the game, smash is not going to die, but it will hurt its growth, you can already see a big difference in numbers when steve/sonic/olimar etc. Are the characters in the top 8, then ZSS/joker/fox/falcon etc.
7:31 Vergil isn’t even top 3 anymore. He’s usually placed 4th or 5th. Theory suggests he might become even lower
Steve is a complicated character and banning him is a task that’s just as complicated. I think he should be banned, but it’s hard to create a full international ban if Japan continues to be so stubborn about banning him and if PMLG, which is the main reason why Steve bans came about, continues to lack practical data to show how good or overrated it truly is
i remember when people were trying their hardest to justify sheeva's jump attack shit in MK11 and just get wiped the floor with when the dev patch nerfed it. all of a sudden everyone was saying the move was broken and needed to be nerfed. a bunch of bandwagoners - worthless
Bro not the falco ban at the end lmao
You told the abegail reveal story lkke 2 videos ago
I think thats not Abigail, thats Birdie
Have you watched "The Brilliant Fighting Game Community"?
A red heeler is just Coney if he were a furry
labcoat was RIDICULOUS
Mk9 was awesome reminds me of smash ult "everyone is broken!!!"
7:47 look at that handsome young coney sub
I like how the chat doesn't correct Coney on how the lab coat grab works. Silly smash players
Please explain 🙏
Command grab super that increases her own attack and reduces the opposing character's attack by 21% for the remainder of the game. It even remains through tag-outs, and can be used against all three opponents if given the opportunity. (Does not further increase 21's Attack.)
@@obviouslyanonymousno just don’t know it💪🏻
@cdjblue isn't that pretty much how Coney explained it as well though?
@@obviouslyanonymous Coney kept referring to it as a 42% debuff
PROHIBIDO JUGAR CON RUGAL
The Meta of smash ultimate is a death sentence for the longetivity of the game. Nobody respects the game, nobody respects better players. Its a party game.
So was melee and we still see people playing it despite it being a party game
This is the fourth time Coney used Steve in the thumbnail (I don't think he likes him guys)
He doesn’t make his thumbnails he has an editor and Steve is only in the thumbnail because he brings more clicks
I hate to be that guy but could you turn up the volume in post? I like watching these at work but i can hardly hear you unless my phones to my ear
Matthew 13:18-23 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
coney just jiyuna play smash
the WOKE MIND VIRUS is stopping me from playing STEVE beyond a CASUAL SETTING!!!!!!!!!
Playing Steve in smash is woke 🥱
@@xanander4693 NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
coney i 100 percent agree. I LOVE MELLEE MEW2
Nothing to think abt get Steve and kazuya out
Why kazuya? He’s 7th on the official tier list, or is this because of him being good and not fun to play against.
@@jams_toast1 It’s cuz he’s not a smash character and has unfair advantages against the entire cast with few compensative weaknesses
music is way to loud
Coney and his dog look related
I've said it before, I'll say it again
the *reason* for the Steve ban was because of a *glitch* they had to *look for* because it never came up *in tournament* between all the time Steve has been out and the time Steve was banned (in some places). If ya'll just went the Meta Knight or Bayonetta route and said "too OP", that would be perfectly fine. But NO, you deadass tried to intellectualize the entire thing and just ended up clowning yourselves
The ban itself is whatever, the *reason* behind it made me lose brain cells
Steve's not only banned for the bug he has, but also because people find him to be lame. Players don't want to play against Steves and viewers don't want to watch Steves, so the ban was to prevent a decline in attendees and viewership (although, the ban did cause a lot of Steve players to stop attending tournaments and as a result decreased the amount of entries).
Sounds like the competitive community needs to suck it up. *The character is lame* is absolutely no grounds in any form of logic to warrant a ban! People that watch the competitive scene and the competitive players themselves needs to shut up and play the game and stop whining!
I like watching steve😔
@@DANCERcow A lot of people already stopped playing the game
@@DANCERcowsaid the guy who likes tripping in Brawl.
You don't care at all about competition.
@@DANCERcow What kind of argument is this? We all play Smash for fun. Why would people want to spend money and free time powering through something they find annoying and lame? If it actually comes to that people will just stop playing.
ima save y’all 20 minutes
“but steve is funny”
i dont think
My mind instantly thought about Bluey when Coney talked about the red heeler 😭
I personally think Steve would be bannable if he got to Bayo/Labcoat/Leeroy levels of use. He definitely isn’t overcentralizing at the moment
the problem with the steve ban is that there's 4 other broken top tiers that nobody seems to have an issue with, it's just that steve is harder to come up with counterplay for because they have to actually think about what steve is doing and they're just used to mashing buttons.
also they banned him because of a bug (which people have already found counterplay for) and i think that's lame
Whatabout-ism is such a rubbish defense. Other characters being good doesn't change how stupid and op Steve is. He can camp, has absurdly easy combos, and is just boring to watch.
@@StriderZessei If his combos were absurdly easy there would be at least 4 Steve's flooding top eights, which has never happened
@@StriderZessei "he can camp, has absurdly easy combos, and is boring to watch" describes more characters than Steve, and by that logic, we should ban characters like Luigi and Rob. yall just giving steve special treatment because he wasn't the character you wanted
@@mothgang7603 show me how many other characters can rack up over 60% with just up-tilts, which then can combo into a kill move.
@@StriderZessei have you heard of this character his name is falco he's got a really famous up tilt
Leroy was broken ASF bro
post hour long videos coney
Back when MKX was the rage, I had some friends that said you couldnt use the same move twice in a row because that was spamming, and when I say move I mean it. You hit low 2 twice in a row? You are done get out of here thats banned, your combo wants you to use forward 3,4 three times in a row to get maximum damage? You better find a different route or else they would just not play the game. I ended up not playing with them due to it.
I ain't first but damn, close enough brother.
same brother
This is how I feel even though I'm an hour late
Steve is for sure more broken than Bayonetta was.
People were just mad they had to learn how to sdi
Maybe so, but his impact on the top level meta is wayyyy less.
We're over 2.5 years into Steve in Smash and there's like three Steves solidly in the top 50.
2.5 years after Bayo's release for Smash 4 there were five Bayo players in the top 10 and another six in the top 50. That's over 20% of top level players having Bayo as a main or secondary.
steve is funny
Steve and Bayonetta are not even remotely comparable
@@EmperorPenguin1217 they are comparable in some ways. Touch of death combos as well as being the best characters in their games. Plus extremely hated by the community. Only thing Steve is missing is being as centralizing as Bayo was. Even then, Smash 4 didn’t have that many top level bayos. I think there was 4. In Ultimate there are two Steve at top level and a few top players have him as secondaries.
Steve got done dirty tbh
I really hope they bring back Abigail for 6, hes like a big auto mogul now and i neeeed him in a suit
i wish i hadnt seen the video first i am wasting so many coneyseconds
That's the only reason hes still banned in coinbox which is cringe.
I love hbox but come on man
HE'S AN ADORABLE DOG shush you're just jealous
Yeah I guess so
I love this shit man
Excellent Clickbait, “We have to think this through” as the title and Steve in the thumbnail even though he doesn’t even really discuss banning Steve other than like, “it wouldn’t affect me personally tho lol too bad for you guys but my skin in the game isn’t the same as yours 😈”
#StopJamieHate
Just saying, People (aka the majority of Smash players) that want to ban Steve are just salty lmao
Truth
no im good
cool video
where is the nerd
Call me petty but i dont care. Steve is max cringe and deserves to be banned.
Steve could’ve been so many other characters …… but somehow they chose Steve …. God damn it man
I mean at the end of the day it was a smart move nintendo wants money and honestly It was hella smart to add Steve he’s iconic and pulling in a whole new demographic of players to smash and in turn a lot more money steve was by far the best choice on nintendos end
minecraft is the best selling game of all time
it was literally just a matter of time
Hey