Very nice to see someone actually take this argument seriously and not just dismiss it as "your map is just bad lol". Although I would argue that as a new mapper it is hard to get BNs to look at a map in the first place, since most of them are either closed or flooded with requests, and you didn't really experience this difficulty because of the situation with Vinxis. Nonetheless, it's nice to see a pishifat video again after 3 years. Thank you
I'd say the point still kinda stand since Vinxis reacted to the map because he thought one diff was bery good so it still relates to the quality of the map to some extent
Always good to see a vid from one of the most articulate people in the osu scene. Was hoping this talk was a bit more critical, but nevertheless, a good listen. Also, the Pool Kids shirt is sick af. You just made me realize they came out with a new album recently lol.
I have almost no knowledge of OSU, but this is highly flawed methodology if you actually wanted to test out whether someone fresh could make it. The simple fact that there were rumors around whether this was a multi-account(?) which boosted the maps popularity should have immediately flagged this attempt as void because it would not reflect the experience of someone new in probably 99% of cases.
pishi did the same thing with his taiko video where the methodology completely ruined the idea of the video. but idk other people always disagree when I say this is a flawed way to explore this problem. glad im not alone tho
i mean it is stated at the beginning that the experiment is to rank one of his regular maps at his regular level of quality but on a new account. not fully roleplay as a new mapper. it is kind of a no-brainer that people will just assume its a multi. because contrary to popular belief, actual new mappers actually make mistakes and require a lot more effort in modding etc. basically what it shows is; if you're good enough to make people think you're a multi, you wont have issues finding BNs and ranking maps.
If you're gonna make a 10/10 map which is so good it's instantly recongnizable as being a multiaccount then of course you won't have trouble ranking it, no matter your connections. But 10/10 maps aren't really the ranked average. People rank 5/10 stuff all the time due to connections, that lesser known people would't be able to rank. It is unfair to expect new mappers - the ones with the least experience and skill - to create close to perfect maps in order to rank them. cool experiment nonetheless. But I think it would've turned out better if you just made a really average map there. I haven't checked it out myself, but as I said, if it's so good that people instantly think it has to be a multiaccount, it probably doesn't represent the "ranking average".
Yeah the whole experiment was tainted and obviously so. Even Realazy came up on stage and confirmed it. The only reason this was getting attention was because it was obviously a multi account and people were suspicious of it.
@@Gadottinho I have about an hour in songs (that is 60 minutes of mapped songs) that have never been uploaded. Only 2 min is even close to rankable, and the rest is just me messing around in the editor. One day I'd love to get a map ranked, but I still have a ways to go before getting one ranked. I could probably get lower diffs ranked, but the high star stuff is much harder as you are given more freedom. 1-3* maps don't have a lot of freedom, and so it is very easy to get a decent 1-3* map ranked.
As it was pointed out already by Silomare, it's not about ranking a perfect map without connections. It's about popular mappers ranking poorly made maps with no problem, while new mappers are treated as someone who has to be perfect in everything with no exceptions. New mappers are expected to meet some unknown ultra high ranking quality criteria, while also getting little to no general feedback and mapping advices from modders. Naturally they will try to match the quality of ranked maps, which might vary a lot from amazing to absolutely horrible maps. New mappers don't understand how structure works and no one will explain it to them. They don't understand why such different maps of one song can pass ranking process, if (in most cases) subjectively one is good and other is not (so much). Again, go figure it out yourself, new mapper. And even when they reach a relatively good mapping level, it's still impossible to get a BN to at least look at your map, because why would they bother if they have known mappers to rank. Speaking from experience as I've been trying to rank 4 different maps in almost 3 years now and every single time, while there may be some slight improvements, I will always get the same message from someone: "You lack mapping skill and nowhere near ranked quality. You'll get the hang of it eventually". Wow, thank you so much, now I clearly understand what I have been doing wrong for 3 years. This is what new mappers get most of the time from experienced modders. To find an actual helpful person who will thoroughly explain how to improve your map, and not "I don't even want to waste my time on you" attitude, without connections is like winning a lottery.
Sometimes Ive come to realise its just not worth it anymore. Its almost like you're trying to get promoted to a higher position. Not everyone is given the chance no matter how high quality your work is. I've been mapping for a few years with the mentality of doing it for myself, not for the ranking system. Even though I'm trying to make the map as rankable as possible, ultimately I'm doing this for my own personal enjoyment as a hobby, not for the attention and recognition of other people.
Dude, I'm so glad to see you back. In case this is just a one off video and you disappear into the shadows once again, I wanted to take this time to say that your content has been super influential in my life. Some of my best memories on RUclips were watching your videos and trying to figure out how to map. Tysm, I wish you the best of luck with whatever you do going forward!
One of the best rhythm game RUclipsrs and someone who I've gotten good advice in discussions of the past. You're revolutionary to the creative side of your game and it knows no bounds. Welcome back king.
Thats all just my thoughts below, but it can be interesting in some way for you Remember, that the experiment is only on 1 mapset, which was hyped by the performer himself, on twitter + 1 of the BNs mentioned that there were some rumors around. Plus also knowing the etiquette of approaching the modding stuff and communicating with BNs (while also being a BN) helps a lot. Imagine for example, having haters who spam their subjective suggestions as "problem" marks in your discussion, good luck dealing with them :D Imagine being rejected by all active BNs with "Sorry, not interested" As a result, for me, at least, this experiment does not say much, as there still is a remaining problem of cool graveyard maps, which are fantastically mapped and the mapper doesn't want to have any other opinions to be involved in the map (modding), and on the contrary it all emphasizes that hype among the mapper community is cost-effective and modding is mandatory BNs will never write to you first even about your good map, but only If they see a benefits to themselves and/or knows you, so, of course you need sort of connections or the way to get BN interested in your map Overall this is a fun experiment and well-done video, I hope that mapping system will become more optimal and encouraging for everyone ^^
The only actually good bn is unironically sotarks. You just go to his friday roast, send your map, and if it deserves to be ranked he will probably offer to bn your map.
Yea how come there are literally hundreds of amazingly well mapped maps in the graveyard? And on the rankings we literally see the same mappers over and over again. Its a little bit sus I won't lie
@@lukullberg955 because the ranking criteria is relatively strict with everything else besides subjective mapping quality. You need the right metadata, hitsounds, crediting, any mods that the bns deem necessary, and possibly modding from randos which can be quite annoying to deal with during the ranking process. There are some high quality perfectly rankable graveyard maps that just aren’t ranked because the mapper doesn’t care or in some cases there aren’t the right bns for the song/map style
Ever since I started playing osu! lazer I stopped caring for the ranked community of the game honestly. Really toxic scene in my eyes. I can understand BN's and the strict criteria for ranking maps but there's just such an air of negativity in the community as a whole. Newer players and mappers are met with waves upon waves of discouragement. Even small successes and shows of enthusiasm are minimized: "Just got your first 3-4* SS? Nobody cares, don't post it or talk about it." "Just made your first beatmap? Better be a really popular song or it will be stuck in mapping hell or graveyarded. And if you do snag some players you will most likely be met with extreme negativity and largely vauge critzisms". "Want to attend an in-person event? Here lets just slap your rank number on your shirt or face and post it online to show everyone how important/unimportant you are." That last one really bugs me. Imagine if you met Herbie Hancock and he slapped a number on you both to represent how much better a piano player he is than you and then posted it online for everyone to see. I get it, getting good at anything osu! related takes time, practice, and dedication. But if everyone who's just starting out that journey is onboarded by a community with a largely "Superior than thou" ideology they are less likely to feel the urge to keep playing. The community should be about coming together around this fun skillful circle clicking game we're all addicted to. Instead it feels like a massive dick measuring contest new players be damned. Not a healthy community mindset. I'm so much happier playing the game because I enjoy it, away from ranked and the rest of the community on lazer. And I wish I wasn't able to say that.
I wonder if the results would be similiar if the experiment was conducted by someone like ryuusei aika since his mapping style is very controversial yet he has no problem finding bns very quickly
I want to preface this with: I am not a mapper and have no intention of ever becoming one. The system in place is really good for having every ranked map be quality, however, its not great for pretty much anything else. Other genres of music that aren't represented well have a tough time getting ranked because less BN's will be interested in it, not saying its impossible its just statistically true. Same goes for other mapping styles which does compound even more since other mapping styles like tech or something are already harder to chart so they have fewer people charting them. Also this system sucks for people with social anxiety, I don't know how you would fix it but there are definitely mappers out there who quit who would've continued mapping if you didn't have to contact so many people and deal with them saying no for a myriad of different reasons + the fact that if you are percieved as annoying you might just be ignored (There was one sotarks clip that talked about that). That being said, I have far more problems with the Loved system. It sucks. It's supposed to be unrankable maps that should have leaderboards but what it's turned into is perfectly fine maps that just aren't ranked arbitrarily.
>The system in place is really good for having every ranked map be quality Well, except for times when horrid maps get ranked just thanks to a name attached
That kind of social anxiety isn't the bn's problem to fix unless it's really obvious they were demeaning or insulting for no reason. Getting your maps out there requires you to talk to people, and especially people who aren't required to come to you first or are required to cater to your anxiety (and honestly, they really shouldn't to a certain degree). It also means you have to accept the possibility that they will say no for a variety of reasons, none of which may ever actually involve you yourself (such as time constraints, overload, etc.). Might suck to hear (even 2 years later), but that's just unreasonable.
While I do appreciate the experiment, I don't think it is enough. It is just one case that we may or may not consider "lucky" because VINXIS, who I believe was even a BN (at some point), saw that map and it got attention. It got even more attention because of all the alt account drama (I think that's why Realazy got interested as it's the first thing he mentioned). How about another experiment or several to validate whether it takes skill or popularity? I mean most mappers start with songs they like, mainly not featured artist songs:(. I understand we should push for featured artists but a more practical problem is getting a non-popular mapper to rank what _they_ like (it could be rap, it could be a generic anime song). What should they do without any connections when every BN says "it's generic", "not my style", "my style but go to queue which will open in 99 months"? Aside: why are there no rules that make BNs to nominate at least one map per month which belongs to a mapper who hasn't ranked anything in a year? BNs don't have time for those people because they rank popular-mappers' maps and some mappers have ranked like 5 maps a day. Mappers whose last ranked map was over 6 or 12 months should get top priority from BNs. It should be like Christmas queue but for people who haven't ranked anything for like 6 months. Or who haven't ranked anything at all but are mappers for several years.
Being suspected of a mapper's multiaccount, having a good first map on your account and having the attention from the artist itself ended being popularity build up to rank the map so yea, it wasn't skill/creativity what put it into ranked lol
The map got a lot of traction because it was obviously a multi-account + VINXIS hyped it up. I was a new mapper at that time and somehow, that map made it into a Facebook osu! group chat I was in. This was even before you waited 1 year before ranking it. The map was so good, I thought it was a Monstrata alt tbh
True, but technically it got attention because of his mapping skill, which gained him popularity, probably not a situation you can hope to replicate very often though
Coming back to this after a year, I think the problem is that most of the ranking committee aren’t willing to splurge time into helping mappers polish their maps and telling them why something isn’t sufficient. I’m taking a break after 10 years in the game with no ranked map after 7 years of mapping experience because of the BN either turn you down unless your have a BN already looking at your map (possibly connected to having connections), or they’ll giving varying numbers of mods (some are more generous than others) and don’t tell why they won’t consider for nomination (again, some will). I’ll come back when I don’t feel the depression of having to tirelessly contact everyone just to get a “no.” That’ll probably the last thing I ever do on osu. I made someone a promise, and I have to uphold it.
This is a great video, and I do agree with the conclusion myself. BUT, I think it misses the *actual* point of calling mapping a popularity contest. Obviously no 'new' mapper will actually have a good first map, but that's not really important. The point most people holding this opinion are actually posing, is that mappers like sotarks can push something to ranked which other mappers would be unable to. THAT is the #1 gripe most people seem to have with the mapping scene, and with certain big name mappers. To a degree, I do think this is *slightly* true, I think it would also be pretty easily to prove/disprove by someone like you doing something like this. If some random were able to get a "shitty pp farm sotarks map" ranked with the same ease, it would 100% quell any doubt IMO. I also feel like the general opinion is a bit skewed thanks to events like sotarks' ranked map speedrun and the general community not understanding what happened there/why it was possible to do so in the first place. With better understanding of the process I bet the opinions would shift.
Yeah ive heard getting maps ranked isnt extremely hard if you want to. I agree that its just when the map is terrible and still gets ranked is when its a problem.
@@randomness4989 that's not true, I (and some others) have own ranked set without any ranked GD beforehand, while I saw a handful having a ton of ranked GDs but barely get any own ranked set. There's no way of telling exactly how many you should get in order to be able to rank your own.
It is nice to see pishi making a comeback out of nowhere lol. And even on the topic I have been so interested in for 6 years. I started playing osu in 2016 and started mapping in the same year. Early on, I was really hooked to mapping and tried to push some of my maps for ranked. It went horribly, as expected, and I blamed myself. I went through trials and errors throughout 1 year later and in 2018, I finally got one of my maps to meet RC's standards. It was until I asked for nominations that I realized "Yep, no name map lame", after being instantly rejected by 3 BNs at the time. I tried reaching out for more but the best I got was Lantern (another BN at the time) saying my map was decent enough for ranked on discussion thread and that was about it. Others were either too busy mapping or too busy telling no-name mappers they're busy. I still make maps once in a while but no longer have desire or dedication to make a full spread and give them global leaderboards. I have seen graveyarded maps made by "unranked" mappers that are not good, but holy-shit good. They are just too tired to hop in the race for BNs' attention and bother going for ranked. Talk about missed potentials. What I'm saying is that I have a counter-argument, that is connections matter most when it comes to ranking your maps. Pishi's experiment was unfair since it gained traction, hype, and became the talk of the town. Had it been less refined, the results might have gone differently. So yeah, no name map lame. It is the bitter truth that I still see till this day, at least to me. If you're lucky enough to have one BN eager to rank your map, you are definitely on your easier way for more ranked maps in the future, for you have escaped the gigantic gap between "unranked" and "first-ranked" which I think won't diminish in the mapping community anytime soon. TL;DR: My opinion, connections matter a lot, without which you'll have an insanely hard time to rank maps.
I agree so much with this, I never tried mapping but a long time ago before I quit (and I played A LOT), I was getting really really tired of the same 3-5 anime tv size songs over and over plastered all over the 5 first ranked pages or more. It was untill I started to look for particular songs when I came across ancient posts and graveyard posts with really good maps and that made me kinda sad, you just don't get a ranked map because it's good, you need a lot of connections and sometimes straight up favouritism.
There's definitely an element of what songs you choose being important too. I've noticed... I'll go for songs I enjoy, and simply they'll get ignored. So it's really hard to IMPROVE when nobody will even take a second glance at it because they either don't know the song or it's by an unusual artist. I got a decent amount of attention back in like 2017 or something for my map on Protostar - No Turning Back but yeah, even I'll admit I was fighting with drain time on it and if I was to try map it now I KNOW it'd never get ranked. It's not up to standard. I'd gotten Doomsday to test play it, he just wanted some consistency edits and stuff which I made and I was genuinely proud of the map. Issue became when I tried to get BNs to look at it back then. I simply couldn't. It was demoralising. Trying to get people to look at it became a chore, put it into modding queues, it was never getting looked at those queues were absurdly long. Did some M4M stuff, never got anything decently constructive back really despite sitting myself and spending literal hours trying to look at EVERY detail of their mapset to find anything that would either make it look better or play better. Overall it led to me not being able to finish mapsets because I know fine my Easy and Normal difficulties are crap and my Insane+ mapping while decently solid was still not quite up to scratch but not helped by not being able to get people to help out and look at it.
I feel like this experiment is good, but still has room for improvement. I'd be interested what it'd be like if a friend of yours who isn't a well known mapper made a map with your help and tried to get it ranked. It could help pointing out communication issues that happen to new mappers. But most likely it's going to end in people claiming ghostmapping again and it getting the attention needed to be ranked, as seen in this video.
honestly, this was great to watch and im thrilled to see pishifat still alive (i also thought he was dead xD), but i think there's a couple big problems with this social experiment. disclaimer: i am not a mapper and have not tried to rank a map before nor do i know any of people involved personally, but these issues with the experiment i believe are quite impactful 1. pishifat is not a new mapper, the map he created was already good and "up to standard" 2. there was already talk about the map and the mapper i think he's underestimating just how much impact these 2 had in the outcome. since the map was already good and "up to standard" so to speak, the bn's might see it as more "worth" their time to nominate it, but if there was problems like most beginner mappers will have in their first maps, they would probably pay less attention to it by just telling them to fix it after giving some advice. i think they would likely throw it into the back of their mind like the majority of maps they dont nominate, and likely might forget about said map. thats why having talk about the map and the mapper in question probably made it much easier to get responses from bn's, as they might be interested in why ppl are talking about the map or mapper. regardless of these issues i do think the social experiment has done a great job at demonstrating that map merit DOES MATTER, and if your map is good, it can and most likely will get recognized.
Whats crazy is that when I was lobby hopping looking for feedback I got in Emillias lobby. After he played by map he asked if I had any friends or know anybody BNs. I asked why and he said that my map wasnt good enough but if I had friends in the BN that could be nice enough to rank my map. Yea my map was bad but I still find it interesting that just by having BN friends I could have a chance in ranking it.
Krisom here. Nice vid. I think a couple suggestions for new mappers can rise to the surface if you analyze the timeline of the video: knowing niches in music, niches in mapping style, knowing BN interests, getting feedback from community figures that are not just BNs, etc. Id be down to discuss some suggestions about this sometime in the future, may write about them at some Point...
thanks for everything you have done man, and i'm sure a lot of people who map only to push their stuff needed to hear this too! the creative process is definitely a weird thing to grapple with at times, but i'm sure this would inspire others even more! there are definitely people out there who care and definitely things you can do to make the best product, all that it takes is being aware of those options and being REALLY patient. good video man, thank you for your service
as a niche mapper and general modder myself for 3 years, I seriously tried to look for BN to rank one of my map this year earlier but every BN is either closed or not even interested because of preferences, basically making none of my map "submittable". looking at ranked section do feel unfair, I see mediocre maps that even mappers admitted themselves are mediocre and extremely "new"/"unplayable" style of maps getting ranked, meanwhile when Im modding I saw people putting in actual effort with really nice quality map being ignored for years, so I do feel it is unfair in a sense that we sort of have to follow what BNs feel at the time/their rules in order to be ranked, since they dont accept stuff that they dont like usually(styles/visuals)
I think it comes down to being immersed in the community and being knowledgeable in general. As many people pointed out, most ranked maps aren't 10/10, but 5/10 or so, and that people get such "sub par" maps ranked through connections. But thats missing the point of ranked entirely. In my vision, ranking a map is all about declaring its quality to be above a certain standard, which makes it "playable". This is done to ensure players can download a map from whoever, whenever (kinda), and from any genre and safely expect a certain degree of quality from the map. As for why people think its hard to rank map, I'm guessing its a guidance issue. Maybe more automated tools and stuff like that would help this process!
Yeah i totally agree, if your map is good bns probably would rank it, but (if i understood everything correctly) i think its worth mentioning that your map had some sort of recognition because of your restriction and stuff like that. Ppl knew that the map was made by some sort of popular mapper because it was like first map on the account. But it doesn't really matter because i agree anyways, the hardest part is making the mapset itself and make it look good for bn's unwritten quality standards of mapping. Btw It would be cool if these unwritten rules would be written somewhere, just like ranking criteria
Great video, but the conclusion didn't come off strong after your cover was blown. Also unintentional tip for new mappers: map vinxis songs if you want your map checked out by vinxis. Would be cool if you repeated this idea by finding a new or unknown mapper who shows promise, work with them to get a map close to a rankable standard, then see how it goes from there.
this is lowkey flawed - u made a map so good that people thought there was multi-accounting involved. this means essentially u *did* have connections, as bns and the actual maker of the song was interested right off the bat due to twitter hype. new mappers are not going to have the same experience. they are not going to make a 10/10 map and get attention and ranked easily. a mappers first ranked is most of the time 6/10 at best. should we ignore these? no, bc good maps are objective. if its ranked standard, it should be considered for rank. but this video is basically saying 'if u make a perfect map, then youll get ranked, connections or not.' new mappers have such a hard time getting feedback to even get to that point of being able to make a 10/10 map. bns rarely look at 6/10 maps unless u have a name, and thats the point i think u missed. this video was entertaining but it didnt exactly criticise the ranking system in a broad enough way.
I'd think that's more of a luck thing than connection, as essentially no one even knew pishi owns that account. I have a feeling that if he repeat this experiment once again, this time with map either deliberately made to be only a bit above average or with more unorthodox song choice, the experiment would have gone differently.
crazy to think i played the map when it got ranked and i just felt in love with it, i was interested to see more maps from that mysterious mapper, realizing it was you is mindblowing. thank you for this video and welcome back!
Holy shit i remember playing the map he mentioned recently and was just thinking "wow this map is pretty decent its weird thats its this guys first and only map"
osu should do something to what Clone Hero just did with it's ScoreSpy system -Auto generate Leaderboards for any version of a chart as a starting point
Sadly the different case happened in mania. Connection is not just helping but is also required. Simply because in mania no one so far is as dedicated as VINXIS. And also some circlejerk is just rude. Anyway thanks for the experiment
If this is true then why are so many amazing maps in the graveyard? We are literally talking about numbers in the hundreds when it comes to this. You should redo this experiment and not use a featured artist and you should change account if people get suspicious of multi account
@@skewah me thinks its not so easy. There are crazy well mapped maps in the graveyard but on the rankings its just the same mappers over and over again. Its a little bit sus?
Back then i trying for making a ranked maps , but i can't answer the mod pretty well , and sometimes i think it was really confusing to adjust it. Its depressing , sometimes wanted to quit mapping so i decided to erase all of my beatmap , even one who has 25k playcount but still like trash map. and yeah , idc about it , so when i finish mapping , better to leave it on graveyard section. But i'm glad when someone said thankyou for mapping (eventough always shitmapping) 😭😭
Hypothetically is it theoritically possible to, as a new mapper, just submit a map and *not* personally reach out to particular individuals, and get the map ranked?
One comment I gotta make on the multi-account thing, and this is why I love pishifat's videos, but I cannot stand the NAT at times: There's someone on the nomination team who is currently a BN on a multi-account, and proceeded to continued ranking maps. They even have related family in the nat. Well, they used to at least. Popularity does have merit over skill in mapping, that's agreeable. But that's not something to accept. Pishi and the other NAT members have more authority than they tend to exercise, and this is a situation that they should've used that authority to handle
I haven't known Pishifat for long, but either way I would like to welcome you back to content creation! its amazing that you decided to return, from what i can gather, your arguements and discussions are some of the most well thought and exquisite discussions and as such I am so excited for the content installed for the future (If you do decide to upload again)
I think the problem stems from subjective interpretations of objective requirements. BN’s do not push a map for rank because it meets the requirements, rather because they think it’s a good map (a subjective opinion) that satisfies the requirements like this guy here. One would think that once you meet the requirements stated your map would be on the way to being ranked. However, that’s not the case because what really seems to happen is that after the requirements are met, the BN’s subjectively decide which maps to rank. While this doesn’t seem fair, I don’t blame them for behaving like this. The maps they rank ultimately reflect back on them and their reputation.
How about you also try making a purposefully bad map and see if you can get it ranked thanks to your popularity. That would also be interesting and I would like to see the results of it.
I was told by one of my mods that BNs accept a map based NOT on your reputation, but what they think a map should look like "TO THEM". And it makes sense because I've seen disqualified maps and the BNs' feedback on them. NONE of them were about "Who are you, dude? You're just a scrub because no one likes you." No, the feed back was way more constructive and map-directed. They were just pointing out how they think you should do your maps based on their experiences with other maps, also partly because a quality of a map is more easily judged by whether you like certain qualities of it or not, rather than "scientific basis", like Pishifat said in another video. Hey, good news, though. It's not about YOU, it's just about THE MAP. Just appeal to tastes of the BNs and the players and follow ALL OF THE RULES set in the ranking criteria (don't break guidelines until you can explain really well why it's valid for you to break them just for a particular pending map) and you will make it someday, hopefully. At least BNs aren't just average RUclips trolls, really.
I had no clue you made this map and I absolutely loved playing it!! It's still one of my favourite maps because of how replayable it is, you can put just about any mod combination on it and it feels fresh and exciting every time (currently going for a HDDT pass). This video is just amazing, a fresh osu! video for the first time in a while and something different other than a long-winded, overdone documentary on a player or clips from BTMC. Thank you pishifat!
To prove that connections don't matter we use our connections to ask permission for multi-accounting 😂 In all seriousness, like many have already pointed out, not everyone is capable to make a perfect map that will even get suspicion for multiacc, average people make average maps and it's here where connections are essential. You have connections? Your average map gets ranked. No? Then it will be lost to the void
Was hoping I’d see a vid on this, kept seeing pictures from your presentation on twitter and wanted to see what it was all about. Great to have a new upload finally :)
We have a less popular group in osu mania where we rank 10 key maps. we're a small group of dedicated players and we have 2 BNs willing to rank 10k as long as it's rankable and doesn't break guidelines (and is generally fun to play). Making a good 10k map is challenging because you have such a huge cavas to work with
i was rewatching most of your old videos and, i have to say i did not expect to see you upload again. man, it's such a good feeling to see you back on your channel, at least one more time.
Couldn't watch til right now because I was on a vacation but the second I got the notification for this I freaked out. I was a big fan of yours and was very sad when you quit uploading. Very nice to hear your voice again :)
i dont even like osu anymore but i couldnt miss pishi's comeback
ğ
Same!
no judgment at all im just curious, what made you stop liking the game?
Same
@@woobyy like?
I was there!!
This is the comeback we didn’t deserve, but desperately needed.
Welcome back
its unfathomable you are here
its the how BTMC became the face of osu! guy
Very nice to see someone actually take this argument seriously and not just dismiss it as "your map is just bad lol". Although I would argue that as a new mapper it is hard to get BNs to look at a map in the first place, since most of them are either closed or flooded with requests, and you didn't really experience this difficulty because of the situation with Vinxis. Nonetheless, it's nice to see a pishifat video again after 3 years. Thank you
I'd say the point still kinda stand since Vinxis reacted to the map because he thought one diff was bery good so it still relates to the quality of the map to some extent
@@l.c.431 but it's still similar concept to popularity, since it was checked by artist who made the song
@@l.c.431 also you guys dont know it but vnixis is a bn so he knew it was him
@@randomness4989 he was not a bn at that time
@@randomness4989 ik Vinxis is a bn but it doesn't mean he knew from the get go
Can't believe pishifat smurfed in mapping. LEGALLY 😎
Always good to see a vid from one of the most articulate people in the osu scene. Was hoping this talk was a bit more critical, but nevertheless, a good listen.
Also, the Pool Kids shirt is sick af. You just made me realize they came out with a new album recently lol.
real recognize real
@@kaleksiosu hello kaleski Osu
@@svenjingosu2461 hello svenjing osu
Omg it's the one and only etienne
I have almost no knowledge of OSU, but this is highly flawed methodology if you actually wanted to test out whether someone fresh could make it. The simple fact that there were rumors around whether this was a multi-account(?) which boosted the maps popularity should have immediately flagged this attempt as void because it would not reflect the experience of someone new in probably 99% of cases.
pishi did the same thing with his taiko video where the methodology completely ruined the idea of the video.
but idk other people always disagree when I say this is a flawed way to explore this problem.
glad im not alone tho
i mean it is stated at the beginning that the experiment is to rank one of his regular maps at his regular level of quality but on a new account. not fully roleplay as a new mapper. it is kind of a no-brainer that people will just assume its a multi. because contrary to popular belief, actual new mappers actually make mistakes and require a lot more effort in modding etc.
basically what it shows is; if you're good enough to make people think you're a multi, you wont have issues finding BNs and ranking maps.
If you're gonna make a 10/10 map which is so good it's instantly recongnizable as being a multiaccount then of course you won't have trouble ranking it, no matter your connections.
But 10/10 maps aren't really the ranked average. People rank 5/10 stuff all the time due to connections, that lesser known people would't be able to rank. It is unfair to expect new mappers - the ones with the least experience and skill - to create close to perfect maps in order to rank them.
cool experiment nonetheless. But I think it would've turned out better if you just made a really average map there. I haven't checked it out myself, but as I said, if it's so good that people instantly think it has to be a multiaccount, it probably doesn't represent the "ranking average".
Yeah the whole experiment was tainted and obviously so. Even Realazy came up on stage and confirmed it. The only reason this was getting attention was because it was obviously a multi account and people were suspicious of it.
everyones first map is awful so if it has any semblance of quality its suspicious anyway
@@ballsmaster6937 not really, some people can make maps and never upload it.
Or they even rank unrankable maps... Not bad maps per se, but simply disrespecting the rules... That's what I dislike the most.
@@Gadottinho I have about an hour in songs (that is 60 minutes of mapped songs) that have never been uploaded. Only 2 min is even close to rankable, and the rest is just me messing around in the editor. One day I'd love to get a map ranked, but I still have a ways to go before getting one ranked. I could probably get lower diffs ranked, but the high star stuff is much harder as you are given more freedom. 1-3* maps don't have a lot of freedom, and so it is very easy to get a decent 1-3* map ranked.
As it was pointed out already by Silomare, it's not about ranking a perfect map without connections. It's about popular mappers ranking poorly made maps with no problem, while new mappers are treated as someone who has to be perfect in everything with no exceptions. New mappers are expected to meet some unknown ultra high ranking quality criteria, while also getting little to no general feedback and mapping advices from modders. Naturally they will try to match the quality of ranked maps, which might vary a lot from amazing to absolutely horrible maps. New mappers don't understand how structure works and no one will explain it to them. They don't understand why such different maps of one song can pass ranking process, if (in most cases) subjectively one is good and other is not (so much). Again, go figure it out yourself, new mapper. And even when they reach a relatively good mapping level, it's still impossible to get a BN to at least look at your map, because why would they bother if they have known mappers to rank. Speaking from experience as I've been trying to rank 4 different maps in almost 3 years now and every single time, while there may be some slight improvements, I will always get the same message from someone: "You lack mapping skill and nowhere near ranked quality. You'll get the hang of it eventually". Wow, thank you so much, now I clearly understand what I have been doing wrong for 3 years. This is what new mappers get most of the time from experienced modders. To find an actual helpful person who will thoroughly explain how to improve your map, and not "I don't even want to waste my time on you" attitude, without connections is like winning a lottery.
Mood
Wowww
Sometimes Ive come to realise its just not worth it anymore. Its almost like you're trying to get promoted to a higher position. Not everyone is given the chance no matter how high quality your work is. I've been mapping for a few years with the mentality of doing it for myself, not for the ranking system. Even though I'm trying to make the map as rankable as possible, ultimately I'm doing this for my own personal enjoyment as a hobby, not for the attention and recognition of other people.
Dude, I'm so glad to see you back. In case this is just a one off video and you disappear into the shadows once again, I wanted to take this time to say that your content has been super influential in my life. Some of my best memories on RUclips were watching your videos and trying to figure out how to map. Tysm, I wish you the best of luck with whatever you do going forward!
:O
Im sub, i see your rhythm games videos
@@ItsMasTeRYT_ 👋
One of the best rhythm game RUclipsrs and someone who I've gotten good advice in discussions of the past.
You're revolutionary to the creative side of your game and it knows no bounds.
Welcome back king.
Welcome back king, we missed you
Thats all just my thoughts below, but it can be interesting in some way for you
Remember, that the experiment is only on 1 mapset, which was hyped by the performer himself, on twitter + 1 of the BNs mentioned that there were some rumors around.
Plus also knowing the etiquette of approaching the modding stuff and communicating with BNs (while also being a BN) helps a lot.
Imagine for example, having haters who spam their subjective suggestions as "problem" marks in your discussion, good luck dealing with them :D
Imagine being rejected by all active BNs with "Sorry, not interested"
As a result, for me, at least, this experiment does not say much, as there still is a remaining problem of cool graveyard maps, which are fantastically mapped and the mapper doesn't want to have any other opinions to be involved in the map (modding), and on the contrary it all emphasizes that hype among the mapper community is cost-effective and modding is mandatory
BNs will never write to you first even about your good map, but only If they see a benefits to themselves and/or knows you, so, of course you need sort of connections or the way to get BN interested in your map
Overall this is a fun experiment and well-done video, I hope that mapping system will become more optimal and encouraging for everyone ^^
Exacly,i agree on all you just said,dont see the point of this ''experiment'' when they most likely knew who he was
The only actually good bn is unironically sotarks.
You just go to his friday roast, send your map, and if it deserves to be ranked he will probably offer to bn your map.
@@championabovechampions5550 but you need channel points tho,alot of them
Yea how come there are literally hundreds of amazingly well mapped maps in the graveyard? And on the rankings we literally see the same mappers over and over again. Its a little bit sus I won't lie
@@lukullberg955 because the ranking criteria is relatively strict with everything else besides subjective mapping quality. You need the right metadata, hitsounds, crediting, any mods that the bns deem necessary, and possibly modding from randos which can be quite annoying to deal with during the ranking process. There are some high quality perfectly rankable graveyard maps that just aren’t ranked because the mapper doesn’t care or in some cases there aren’t the right bns for the song/map style
Ever since I started playing osu! lazer I stopped caring for the ranked community of the game honestly. Really toxic scene in my eyes. I can understand BN's and the strict criteria for ranking maps but there's just such an air of negativity in the community as a whole.
Newer players and mappers are met with waves upon waves of discouragement. Even small successes and shows of enthusiasm are minimized:
"Just got your first 3-4* SS? Nobody cares, don't post it or talk about it."
"Just made your first beatmap? Better be a really popular song or it will be stuck in mapping hell or graveyarded. And if you do snag some players you will most likely be met with extreme negativity and largely vauge critzisms".
"Want to attend an in-person event? Here lets just slap your rank number on your shirt or face and post it online to show everyone how important/unimportant you are."
That last one really bugs me. Imagine if you met Herbie Hancock and he slapped a number on you both to represent how much better a piano player he is than you and then posted it online for everyone to see. I get it, getting good at anything osu! related takes time, practice, and dedication. But if everyone who's just starting out that journey is onboarded by a community with a largely "Superior than thou" ideology they are less likely to feel the urge to keep playing. The community should be about coming together around this fun skillful circle clicking game we're all addicted to. Instead it feels like a massive dick measuring contest new players be damned. Not a healthy community mindset.
I'm so much happier playing the game because I enjoy it, away from ranked and the rest of the community on lazer. And I wish I wasn't able to say that.
YOU FINALLY UPLOADED
I wonder if the results would be similiar if the experiment was conducted by someone like ryuusei aika since his mapping style is very controversial yet he has no problem finding bns very quickly
I want to preface this with: I am not a mapper and have no intention of ever becoming one. The system in place is really good for having every ranked map be quality, however, its not great for pretty much anything else. Other genres of music that aren't represented well have a tough time getting ranked because less BN's will be interested in it, not saying its impossible its just statistically true. Same goes for other mapping styles which does compound even more since other mapping styles like tech or something are already harder to chart so they have fewer people charting them. Also this system sucks for people with social anxiety, I don't know how you would fix it but there are definitely mappers out there who quit who would've continued mapping if you didn't have to contact so many people and deal with them saying no for a myriad of different reasons + the fact that if you are percieved as annoying you might just be ignored (There was one sotarks clip that talked about that).
That being said, I have far more problems with the Loved system. It sucks. It's supposed to be unrankable maps that should have leaderboards but what it's turned into is perfectly fine maps that just aren't ranked arbitrarily.
I agree good points on relative genre discrepencies
>The system in place is really good for having every ranked map be quality
Well, except for times when horrid maps get ranked just thanks to a name attached
That kind of social anxiety isn't the bn's problem to fix unless it's really obvious they were demeaning or insulting for no reason. Getting your maps out there requires you to talk to people, and especially people who aren't required to come to you first or are required to cater to your anxiety (and honestly, they really shouldn't to a certain degree). It also means you have to accept the possibility that they will say no for a variety of reasons, none of which may ever actually involve you yourself (such as time constraints, overload, etc.). Might suck to hear (even 2 years later), but that's just unreasonable.
While I do appreciate the experiment, I don't think it is enough. It is just one case that we may or may not consider "lucky" because VINXIS, who I believe was even a BN (at some point), saw that map and it got attention. It got even more attention because of all the alt account drama (I think that's why Realazy got interested as it's the first thing he mentioned). How about another experiment or several to validate whether it takes skill or popularity?
I mean most mappers start with songs they like, mainly not featured artist songs:(. I understand we should push for featured artists but a more practical problem is getting a non-popular mapper to rank what _they_ like (it could be rap, it could be a generic anime song). What should they do without any connections when every BN says "it's generic", "not my style", "my style but go to queue which will open in 99 months"?
Aside: why are there no rules that make BNs to nominate at least one map per month which belongs to a mapper who hasn't ranked anything in a year? BNs don't have time for those people because they rank popular-mappers' maps and some mappers have ranked like 5 maps a day. Mappers whose last ranked map was over 6 or 12 months should get top priority from BNs.
It should be like Christmas queue but for people who haven't ranked anything for like 6 months. Or who haven't ranked anything at all but are mappers for several years.
Being suspected of a mapper's multiaccount, having a good first map on your account and having the attention from the artist itself ended being popularity build up to rank the map so yea, it wasn't skill/creativity what put it into ranked lol
MY GUY IS TAKING A BREAK FROM BIRD WATCHING
It’s his comeback video and man’s not wearing any shoes 😂
HOLY SHIT A NEW PISHI VIDEO AFTER 3
4 LONG YEARS
And he never made a video again...
Until he became the main host of the official osu! channel of course.
This is the longest "ur map just sucks" in the history
Do not worry pishifat, I will change the future for mapping and the new generation of mappers. Watch me.
This video is kind of "osu!mapping: reputation part 2", never the less great presentation pishi, still the best osu! content creator on RUclips imo.
The map got a lot of traction because it was obviously a multi-account + VINXIS hyped it up. I was a new mapper at that time and somehow, that map made it into a Facebook osu! group chat I was in. This was even before you waited 1 year before ranking it. The map was so good, I thought it was a Monstrata alt tbh
True, but technically it got attention because of his mapping skill, which gained him popularity, probably not a situation you can hope to replicate very often though
new pishi video expanded my lifespan by 50 years
bruh, that's all because of multiacc hype. Ranked=connections, that's a fact, unless you have a 1000/10 map with new anime openning or popular song
Coming back to this after a year, I think the problem is that most of the ranking committee aren’t willing to splurge time into helping mappers polish their maps and telling them why something isn’t sufficient. I’m taking a break after 10 years in the game with no ranked map after 7 years of mapping experience because of the BN either turn you down unless your have a BN already looking at your map (possibly connected to having connections), or they’ll giving varying numbers of mods (some are more generous than others) and don’t tell why they won’t consider for nomination (again, some will).
I’ll come back when I don’t feel the depression of having to tirelessly contact everyone just to get a “no.” That’ll probably the last thing I ever do on osu. I made someone a promise, and I have to uphold it.
This is a great video, and I do agree with the conclusion myself. BUT, I think it misses the *actual* point of calling mapping a popularity contest.
Obviously no 'new' mapper will actually have a good first map, but that's not really important. The point most people holding this opinion are actually posing, is that mappers like sotarks can push something to ranked which other mappers would be unable to. THAT is the #1 gripe most people seem to have with the mapping scene, and with certain big name mappers.
To a degree, I do think this is *slightly* true, I think it would also be pretty easily to prove/disprove by someone like you doing something like this.
If some random were able to get a "shitty pp farm sotarks map" ranked with the same ease, it would 100% quell any doubt IMO.
I also feel like the general opinion is a bit skewed thanks to events like sotarks' ranked map speedrun and the general community not understanding what happened there/why it was possible to do so in the first place. With better understanding of the process I bet the opinions would shift.
he elaborates a bit on this point in the extra q&a video
Or some maps that definitely are stretching the rules of what is rank able...
Yeah ive heard getting maps ranked isnt extremely hard if you want to. I agree that its just when the map is terrible and still gets ranked is when its a problem.
@@worst5digit84 it is extremly hard to rank stuff tho,you need minimum to have 2 ranked GD to even be considered to rank your own
@@randomness4989 that's not true, I (and some others) have own ranked set without any ranked GD beforehand, while I saw a handful having a ton of ranked GDs but barely get any own ranked set. There's no way of telling exactly how many you should get in order to be able to rank your own.
It is nice to see pishi making a comeback out of nowhere lol. And even on the topic I have been so interested in for 6 years.
I started playing osu in 2016 and started mapping in the same year. Early on, I was really hooked to mapping and tried to push some of my maps for ranked. It went horribly, as expected, and I blamed myself. I went through trials and errors throughout 1 year later and in 2018, I finally got one of my maps to meet RC's standards.
It was until I asked for nominations that I realized "Yep, no name map lame", after being instantly rejected by 3 BNs at the time. I tried reaching out for more but the best I got was Lantern (another BN at the time) saying my map was decent enough for ranked on discussion thread and that was about it. Others were either too busy mapping or too busy telling no-name mappers they're busy.
I still make maps once in a while but no longer have desire or dedication to make a full spread and give them global leaderboards.
I have seen graveyarded maps made by "unranked" mappers that are not good, but holy-shit good. They are just too tired to hop in the race for BNs' attention and bother going for ranked. Talk about missed potentials.
What I'm saying is that I have a counter-argument, that is connections matter most when it comes to ranking your maps. Pishi's experiment was unfair since it gained traction, hype, and became the talk of the town. Had it been less refined, the results might have gone differently.
So yeah, no name map lame. It is the bitter truth that I still see till this day, at least to me. If you're lucky enough to have one BN eager to rank your map, you are definitely on your easier way for more ranked maps in the future, for you have escaped the gigantic gap between "unranked" and "first-ranked" which I think won't diminish in the mapping community anytime soon.
TL;DR: My opinion, connections matter a lot, without which you'll have an insanely hard time to rank maps.
This
I agree so much with this, I never tried mapping but a long time ago before I quit (and I played A LOT), I was getting really really tired of the same 3-5 anime tv size songs over and over plastered all over the 5 first ranked pages or more. It was untill I started to look for particular songs when I came across ancient posts and graveyard posts with really good maps and that made me kinda sad, you just don't get a ranked map because it's good, you need a lot of connections and sometimes straight up favouritism.
There's definitely an element of what songs you choose being important too. I've noticed... I'll go for songs I enjoy, and simply they'll get ignored. So it's really hard to IMPROVE when nobody will even take a second glance at it because they either don't know the song or it's by an unusual artist. I got a decent amount of attention back in like 2017 or something for my map on Protostar - No Turning Back but yeah, even I'll admit I was fighting with drain time on it and if I was to try map it now I KNOW it'd never get ranked. It's not up to standard. I'd gotten Doomsday to test play it, he just wanted some consistency edits and stuff which I made and I was genuinely proud of the map.
Issue became when I tried to get BNs to look at it back then. I simply couldn't. It was demoralising. Trying to get people to look at it became a chore, put it into modding queues, it was never getting looked at those queues were absurdly long. Did some M4M stuff, never got anything decently constructive back really despite sitting myself and spending literal hours trying to look at EVERY detail of their mapset to find anything that would either make it look better or play better. Overall it led to me not being able to finish mapsets because I know fine my Easy and Normal difficulties are crap and my Insane+ mapping while decently solid was still not quite up to scratch but not helped by not being able to get people to help out and look at it.
I feel like this experiment is good, but still has room for improvement. I'd be interested what it'd be like if a friend of yours who isn't a well known mapper made a map with your help and tried to get it ranked. It could help pointing out communication issues that happen to new mappers. But most likely it's going to end in people claiming ghostmapping again and it getting the attention needed to be ranked, as seen in this video.
honestly, this was great to watch and im thrilled to see pishifat still alive (i also thought he was dead xD), but i think there's a couple big problems with this social experiment.
disclaimer: i am not a mapper and have not tried to rank a map before nor do i know any of people involved personally, but these issues with the experiment i believe are quite impactful
1. pishifat is not a new mapper, the map he created was already good and "up to standard"
2. there was already talk about the map and the mapper
i think he's underestimating just how much impact these 2 had in the outcome. since the map was already good and "up to standard" so to speak, the bn's might see it as more "worth" their time to nominate it, but if there was problems like most beginner mappers will have in their first maps, they would probably pay less attention to it by just telling them to fix it after giving some advice. i think they would likely throw it into the back of their mind like the majority of maps they dont nominate, and likely might forget about said map. thats why having talk about the map and the mapper in question probably made it much easier to get responses from bn's, as they might be interested in why ppl are talking about the map or mapper.
regardless of these issues i do think the social experiment has done a great job at demonstrating that map merit DOES MATTER, and if your map is good, it can and most likely will get recognized.
Whats crazy is that when I was lobby hopping looking for feedback I got in Emillias lobby. After he played by map he asked if I had any friends or know anybody BNs. I asked why and he said that my map wasnt good enough but if I had friends in the BN that could be nice enough to rank my map. Yea my map was bad but I still find it interesting that just by having BN friends I could have a chance in ranking it.
crazy
Krisom here. Nice vid. I think a couple suggestions for new mappers can rise to the surface if you analyze the timeline of the video: knowing niches in music, niches in mapping style, knowing BN interests, getting feedback from community figures that are not just BNs, etc. Id be down to discuss some suggestions about this sometime in the future, may write about them at some Point...
pishifat: dont do this you will get banned
Fushimi Rio:
It’s been 3000 years man….. 😭
thanks for everything you have done man, and i'm sure a lot of people who map only to push their stuff needed to hear this too! the creative process is definitely a weird thing to grapple with at times, but i'm sure this would inspire others even more! there are definitely people out there who care and definitely things you can do to make the best product, all that it takes is being aware of those options and being REALLY patient. good video man, thank you for your service
no ones talking about how ed shouting "GYZE" at the back?
as a niche mapper and general modder myself for 3 years, I seriously tried to look for BN to rank one of my map this year earlier but every BN is either closed or not even interested because of preferences, basically making none of my map "submittable".
looking at ranked section do feel unfair, I see mediocre maps that even mappers admitted themselves are mediocre and extremely "new"/"unplayable" style of maps getting ranked, meanwhile when Im modding I saw people putting in actual effort with really nice quality map being ignored for years, so I do feel it is unfair in a sense that we sort of have to follow what BNs feel at the time/their rules in order to be ranked, since they dont accept stuff that they dont like usually(styles/visuals)
pishifat: dont do this you will get banned
GIGACHAD:
I think it comes down to being immersed in the community and being knowledgeable in general. As many people pointed out, most ranked maps aren't 10/10, but 5/10 or so, and that people get such "sub par" maps ranked through connections. But thats missing the point of ranked entirely. In my vision, ranking a map is all about declaring its quality to be above a certain standard, which makes it "playable". This is done to ensure players can download a map from whoever, whenever (kinda), and from any genre and safely expect a certain degree of quality from the map. As for why people think its hard to rank map, I'm guessing its a guidance issue. Maybe more automated tools and stuff like that would help this process!
so you basically proved that the mappers complaining on twitter all have a massive skill issue 🥶
Yeah i totally agree, if your map is good bns probably would rank it, but (if i understood everything correctly) i think its worth mentioning that your map had some sort of recognition because of your restriction and stuff like that. Ppl knew that the map was made by some sort of popular mapper because it was like first map on the account. But it doesn't really matter because i agree anyways, the hardest part is making the mapset itself and make it look good for bn's unwritten quality standards of mapping. Btw It would be cool if these unwritten rules would be written somewhere, just like ranking criteria
Great video, but the conclusion didn't come off strong after your cover was blown. Also unintentional tip for new mappers: map vinxis songs if you want your map checked out by vinxis.
Would be cool if you repeated this idea by finding a new or unknown mapper who shows promise, work with them to get a map close to a rankable standard, then see how it goes from there.
Can't believe the pisifat channel uploaded again! You're my biggest inspriration!
this is lowkey flawed - u made a map so good that people thought there was multi-accounting involved. this means essentially u *did* have connections, as bns and the actual maker of the song was interested right off the bat due to twitter hype. new mappers are not going to have the same experience. they are not going to make a 10/10 map and get attention and ranked easily. a mappers first ranked is most of the time 6/10 at best. should we ignore these? no, bc good maps are objective. if its ranked standard, it should be considered for rank. but this video is basically saying 'if u make a perfect map, then youll get ranked, connections or not.'
new mappers have such a hard time getting feedback to even get to that point of being able to make a 10/10 map. bns rarely look at 6/10 maps unless u have a name, and thats the point i think u missed. this video was entertaining but it didnt exactly criticise the ranking system in a broad enough way.
Kinda true, but really if ur map is a 6/10 then obviously you will have to try harder for ranked than someone whose made a really good map.
I'd think that's more of a luck thing than connection, as essentially no one even knew pishi owns that account.
I have a feeling that if he repeat this experiment once again, this time with map either deliberately made to be only a bit above average or with more unorthodox song choice, the experiment would have gone differently.
Perfect maps doesnt exist because the ranking process is subjective,if its perfect for one BN its an average one for another
@@MonsterPlusArt Nope,its obviously just a parade,heck even the artist hyped the map,they knew who he was
@@randomness4989 just because he hyped the map doesn't really mean he knew, his userpage didn't tell anything about that.
crazy to think i played the map when it got ranked and i just felt in love with it, i was interested to see more maps from that mysterious mapper, realizing it was you is mindblowing. thank you for this video and welcome back!
Holy shit i remember playing the map he mentioned recently and was just thinking "wow this map is pretty decent its weird thats its this guys first and only map"
osu should do something to what Clone Hero just did with it's ScoreSpy system -Auto generate Leaderboards for any version of a chart as a starting point
I was here for this. Amazing event. Thank you Mr. Pishifat
"hey ppy I need a second account for some video I'm making"
"yeah sure fuck it make 5 while you're at it"
Sadly the different case happened in mania. Connection is not just helping but is also required. Simply because in mania no one so far is as dedicated as VINXIS. And also some circlejerk is just rude. Anyway thanks for the experiment
BABE WAKE UP, PISHIFAT UPLOADED
listening to the [very manly] crowd go wild for the "hello there"
Oh my word just nice to see you on this channel again
If this is true then why are so many amazing maps in the graveyard? We are literally talking about numbers in the hundreds when it comes to this.
You should redo this experiment and not use a featured artist and you should change account if people get suspicious of multi account
if u want to rank a good map u can
@@skewah me thinks its not so easy. There are crazy well mapped maps in the graveyard but on the rankings its just the same mappers over and over again. Its a little bit sus?
Back then i trying for making a ranked maps , but i can't answer the mod pretty well , and sometimes i think it was really confusing to adjust it.
Its depressing , sometimes wanted to quit mapping
so i decided to erase all of my beatmap , even one who has 25k playcount but still like trash map.
and yeah , idc about it , so when i finish mapping , better to leave it on graveyard section.
But i'm glad when someone said thankyou for mapping (eventough always shitmapping) 😭😭
Hypothetically is it theoritically possible to, as a new mapper, just submit a map and *not* personally reach out to particular individuals, and get the map ranked?
OMFG PISHI UPLOAD THIS HAS LITERALLY MADE MY DAY
Yes this video is awesome, but are we gonna talk about how loud BTMC is in 9:27 ???
great idea for a video. i wonder if bn's already suspecting it was an alt account had any role though.
welcome back to youtube, pishi.
One comment I gotta make on the multi-account thing, and this is why I love pishifat's videos, but I cannot stand the NAT at times: There's someone on the nomination team who is currently a BN on a multi-account, and proceeded to continued ranking maps. They even have related family in the nat. Well, they used to at least. Popularity does have merit over skill in mapping, that's agreeable. But that's not something to accept. Pishi and the other NAT members have more authority than they tend to exercise, and this is a situation that they should've used that authority to handle
holy shit a prophet
I haven't known Pishifat for long, but either way I would like to welcome you back to content creation! its amazing that you decided to return, from what i can gather, your arguements and discussions are some of the most well thought and exquisite discussions and as such I am so excited for the content installed for the future (If you do decide to upload again)
It's been over 3 years. It makes me so happy to see another video from you!
Finally, I get to hear an "Hello there" again
lets go our yearly upload!!!!
I think the problem stems from subjective interpretations of objective requirements.
BN’s do not push a map for rank because it meets the requirements, rather because they think it’s a good map (a subjective opinion) that satisfies the requirements like this guy here.
One would think that once you meet the requirements stated your map would be on the way to being ranked. However, that’s not the case because what really seems to happen is that after the requirements are met, the BN’s subjectively decide which maps to rank. While this doesn’t seem fair, I don’t blame them for behaving like this. The maps they rank ultimately reflect back on them and their reputation.
How about you also try making a purposefully bad map and see if you can get it ranked thanks to your popularity. That would also be interesting and I would like to see the results of it.
I got restricted today, I just thought nobody would like to know so I shared it
I was told by one of my mods that BNs accept a map based NOT on your reputation, but what they think a map should look like "TO THEM". And it makes sense because I've seen disqualified maps and the BNs' feedback on them. NONE of them were about "Who are you, dude? You're just a scrub because no one likes you."
No, the feed back was way more constructive and map-directed. They were just pointing out how they think you should do your maps based on their experiences with other maps, also partly because a quality of a map is more easily judged by whether you like certain qualities of it or not, rather than "scientific basis", like Pishifat said in another video.
Hey, good news, though. It's not about YOU, it's just about THE MAP. Just appeal to tastes of the BNs and the players and follow ALL OF THE RULES set in the ranking criteria (don't break guidelines until you can explain really well why it's valid for you to break them just for a particular pending map) and you will make it someday, hopefully. At least BNs aren't just average RUclips trolls, really.
this was so hype to see live ngl, i always wondered what would happen if some mapper did that and you did lel
New pishi video after 3 years 😁
that is very interesting. can't wait for the next video soon at the next COE...
I had no clue you made this map and I absolutely loved playing it!! It's still one of my favourite maps because of how replayable it is, you can put just about any mod combination on it and it feels fresh and exciting every time (currently going for a HDDT pass).
This video is just amazing, a fresh osu! video for the first time in a while and something different other than a long-winded, overdone documentary on a player or clips from BTMC. Thank you pishifat!
yayyy new pishifat video
YOOOO PISHI UPLOAD
To prove that connections don't matter we use our connections to ask permission for multi-accounting 😂
In all seriousness, like many have already pointed out, not everyone is capable to make a perfect map that will even get suspicion for multiacc, average people make average maps and it's here where connections are essential. You have connections? Your average map gets ranked. No? Then it will be lost to the void
Was hoping I’d see a vid on this, kept seeing pictures from your presentation on twitter and wanted to see what it was all about. Great to have a new upload finally :)
Nice to see you again Pishi
glad to have you back king ♥
i knew that one day the notifications being on would help
holy shit a new pishifat video in my feed
We have a less popular group in osu mania where we rank 10 key maps. we're a small group of dedicated players and we have 2 BNs willing to rank 10k as long as it's rankable and doesn't break guidelines (and is generally fun to play).
Making a good 10k map is challenging because you have such a huge cavas to work with
HOLY SHIT PISHIFAT UPLOAD
yooooooo new pishi video!!!
i was rewatching most of your old videos and, i have to say i did not expect to see you upload again. man, it's such a good feeling to see you back on your channel, at least one more time.
Really happy to see you again mr Pishi ! When i heard "hello there" and "welcome to osu" i was like, lets goo! 😅
After 3 years a new video came out!
Couldn't watch til right now because I was on a vacation but the second I got the notification for this I freaked out. I was a big fan of yours and was very sad when you quit uploading. Very nice to hear your voice again :)
god damn I was recommended one video and you somehow uploaded welcome back
osu!mania star rating system is unfair
That's most certainly unexpected yet very welcome.
If you'll also be at the next COE, then goddamn I want to be there.
seeing “4 days ago” on a pishifat video was wild
Yeah, honestly when i saw that i thought it meant years
That audience participation at the beginning was awesome
thank you for inspiring me and many others to pick up mapping all those years ago it has been very fun!
Emily
oh my god this is literally the comeback of the century, welcome back