Intermittent communication problems are THE hardest ones to diagnose. Eric, I think that your approach was excellent in this case. The gentle tap and wiggle test is very effective, and can be the answer when there are no other clues. The hard part is telling the customer "well, I narrowed it down, but not 100% sure" after spending several hours on it!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics in situations like that how much would you charge? 1 hour of diag, no charge, etc? Or if you spend 4 hours working on would you charge the 4 hours??
I charge different sometimes especially if it's a good customer & I know they come back to me if it occurs again or I am going to get the final repair. If it is a customer I know just wants me to diagnose the problem so they can do the repair then I'll charge them the time I spend if I have to disassemble & reassemble but most of the time I only charge the hour diagnostic time b/c sometimes you diagnose below the hour & it balances out. Again if it is one of my really good customers and I find it in 15 minutes and they are financially challenged then I will only charge the 15 minutes & time allotted to replace the part. Nothing is firm!
Another thing. When you break out the schematics and go through them step by step during your troubleshooting routine is priceless. I have learned a ton watching your troubleshooting methods. A million thanks to you. And again, Kay Man scared the hell out of me, LOL!
My sweetys 2006 cobalt has almost 190k with the original timing components still going and her car runs like a cool little blue rocket for her!! ((Yes I know I need to replace that ASAP)) I maintain it for her as far as oil changes, transmission service, brakes, etc and It has never let her down! Like all makes, they all produce a lemon here and there but with modern engineering and production, if maintained correctly at the required intervals, you eliminate unnecessary part failures. Yes like timing chains 😓 next weekend!!
You just did a diagnosis on this Cobalt that only 5 out of 100 mechanics/technicians can do. Incredible! Why don't you put your Controller Area Network diagnoses in separate Playlist on RUclips. I imagine if other shops see these types of videos they will seek you out to solve their problems. Another outstanding SMA thumbs up video production.
My 06 Nissan Frontier did the same thing, the "U" code was the 4WD module under the dash. Cleaned the connections, problem solved. Network's happy, no problem with the 4WD module before and after cleaning and the code hasn't come back. Love those intermittents! They are the curse of the automotive industry!
I fixed an issue on a Fiat vehicle with a connector for the electric windows that would randomly start and stop working. Normally after vibration. I traced it to the pins in the connector. They seemed ok. Cleaning and messing with them never fixed it. My friend who owned the vehicle told me to chop the connectors and solder the wires together. The van is only 2 or 3 years from the scrap yard anyway. Works fine since. Connector problems are a pain. Top video Eric. Great to see some CAN stuff. My CAN and general networking knowledge on cars is terrible.
Hey eric i respect your honesty becuase alot od techs/mechanic have too pride not to they dont know or load up the parts cannon and fires away thw saying is can't find can't fix
I've seen several issues like this before and fixed a few by simply re-soldering a circuit board connection. The female connector looked good and seemed to have the proper pin fit drag. I'm guessing its a bad solder joint where the male pin is connected to the power steering module circuit board. When Eric wiggled on the wire it transferred that motion to the male pin/solder joint area and gave it a temporary connection. During the next few heat/cold cycles and the vibration, I bet the issue will most likely reoccur.
Eric, I know what it is!!! I had the same issues with a 2007 Chevy Cobalt. I found out there is a stud on the front of the transmission that has a negative type wire screwed to it. I cleaned that terminal and mounting stud and poof all the codes, hard shifting went away.
Paul Kirkland yes and I cleaned the terminals, removed the stud and also cleaned that also. It causes the car to shift hard, misfire codes, and other goofy stuff. It's on the driver's side and it's right in the front. I wish I could post pictures.
Ford F series trucks have the same issue with their ground straps failing causing current to run through the transmission which ultimately damages the front pump plate in the transmission via electrolysis (automatic trans).
Thanks for pinpointing this issue. I looked for the same harness and the wires where tightly kinked over. I disconnected the harness and turned the key on. The tracktion control light was off, so I think two of the wires were effected from stretching. I put it back together without siting the harness back on bracket and no trouble
One thing to do when there's a shake coming from the rear is to check the tire walls for damage. It's easy to damage the carcass by clipping a sharp concrete edge in a parking lot or somesuch and it does lead to the symptoms you describe. Needless to say driving around on a damaged tire is very dangerous. The guy at the tire centre who alerted me to the problem showed me by overinflating it. It let go at just 2.7 bar, while the recommended inflation pressure is 2.3 bar.
I agree with Chris Rainville's comment about the terminal fretting corrosion. Apparently, it is caused by heating/cooling cycles of the terminals, along with vibration. The friction over time causes a nonconductive, oxidized buildup that can only be seen under magnification in most cases. Simply unplugging and reconnecting the connector can fix the problem. It seems that this issue is new to the automotive world, possibly due to the tin-coated terminals used today. I wonder if this issue would no longer occur if the terminals were solid brass as were used in older vehicles. But, then again, as many people have mentioned, it happens in air bag terminals as well, and those are supposedly gold-plated for corrosion prevention.
Anything air tight will eventually get moisture inside (condensation) from temperature cycles. I'm not sure if these "termination plugs" on most vehicles are truly air tight but those green seals appear to give that impression. As nice as they are weatherproof, condensation is the issue that needs to be addressed.
Nice diagnostic video Eric and the issues we run into isolating intermittent issues. Sometimes it's terminal fretting and simply unplugging, DeOxit5 and reconnecting takes care of it but then again is it a module terminal that was the connection issue and will come back. I'd have done the same and gave it back to the customer. If it comes back then probably be a module change and then again it may be fixed for good...time will tell.
I have a 2010 cobalt and randomly when I slam on the brakes, the trans will start to kick when shifting 2nd gear. Its and automatic and this doesnt always happen. After turning it off and turning it back on this issue may go away until I need to slam on the breaks again.. what is it? Chevy says trans solenoid?
I have a Turbo Cobalt and had the steering column out and the motor. I did a test drive and esc is going crazy. I plugged it all back in as it was. I guess I gotta check tomorrow and make 100% sure.
Great job as always Eric always love seeing communication issues others run into. And definitely cant beat a pico for looking at the network. Thanks for sharing with us
Had a 2005 Cobalt myself. Had a similar issue, no one could figure it out b/c it didnt happen when we wanted it to. every time it acted up I would just unplug one of the connectors at the BCM (closest vertical one to the passenger seat) and it would be fine for a few months. The power steering could have been touched due to the Recall for the Power steering failing,
I'm not a mechanic, but perhaps if you had some short pigtails that you could insert between the male and female portions of the connector then maybe you could wiggle each male pin independently to see if the problem was related to one or more of the male pins. Just a thought.
Hard to find fault with an intermittent problem. Hard to find those electrical gremlins. Nice job of troubleshooting though Eric. It's a crap shoot with no hard failure. Keep us posted. Good video.great troubleshooting nice plan of attack.
I recalled the g6 and was already thinking how that ps module cost was going to hurt, but ty for your thoroughness, end of day base gm car + shaking bad = bad things happen , hope she fixed
Another problem that was supposed to never happen for the life of the car. I suppose when something like this happens with self driving cars, it will park itself by the road and automatically call the flat bed, or maybe drive itself to the dealer in limp mode?
This is why I much prefer my old 2000 Ford. Non-ABS model with no computers except engine management. :-) I may have to weld it every two years but, I'd rather pay £100-£200 each year at MOT than buy a newer £2-3,000 car and have problems. I couldn't care if someone crashed into my old Ford tomorrow, I'll just go out and buy another. Disposable cars are the best.
Good catch Eric.. just had a similar occurrence on a Lexus ECM.. turns out to be a cold solder joints on the multi layer PCB socket pins.. thx to Lead free soldering and Cancer haters
I have a 2008 Chevy cobalt that has been doing the same thing! The mechanic has had it for over a week drove it the first two days but nothing happening but then all of a sudden it started messing up the gauge would go crazy I would go all the way up and all the way down fuel would say low fuel and back up to fuel it was just nuts he change the transmission control modulator and still has not figured out what’s wrong. Thank you for your video I can send this to him and maybe he can figure it out.
Right about the time you started wiggling the harness, my internet connection slowed to sub-dialup speeds. Stop wiggling the harness, Eric! You're breaking the internet! LOL
Hopefully just terminal fretting. Dielectric grease after cleaning is a recommended GM fix. Also isolating the connector from vibration/movement is also recommended.
It is insulation, but where the metal is actually making contact it will get scraped off enough to make good contact. The point of it is to prevent the other parts of the connection from oxidizing or corroding. Effectively it seals in the contact parts. You wouldn't want something that was conductive because it would potentially short out between pins.
I love your thoroughness in troubleshooting !! I have a similar issue with a 12’ Cruze that looses the dash cluster rpm&speed and kicks on CEL, stabilitrack, power steering. Codes have been consistent with U0100 and P0700 most of the time BUT have seen others as well. Once it loses signal, it drops into limp mode / hard shifts /stuck in 2nd etc. I have replaced the battery cable and it was fine for (2) days(100miles) but all back again. Also if I shut it off it will not restart for 2 mins . I cleaned all grounds, fusebox and ecm connections. Cleaned transmission connection as well a BCM. No sign of mice or chewed wires that I can see but now wondering if it’s just a bad ECM?? Have you encountered this same issue??
My cobalt just acquired this hard shifting issue. It started soon after I tried to adjust the steering wheel position. I’m going to check the harnesses to see if they came loose when I moved the steering wheel around.
I have a 2007 Cobalt, very similar to this one you show. I get the same symptoms in the rain. When it's dry all is good. In the rain I get the codes. I've had it happen a few times. Usually it happens just when i start the car. Recently it's happened while driving. The car goes into low power mode.
Hi! Another great video! I can follow a lot of the techniques you do. I believe you requested some feedback from us viewers about what to maybe include in your content. You do an excellent portrayal of your technique, knowledge and problem correction from the business point of view, after all this is your livelihood. This I would not change and maybe this is where you intend your viewers to be also, which is great. What would be an enhancement in my understanding of your channel would be a little review of automotive electronics thrown in. You have learned a lot from workshops and practical experience that I am missing. I took university electronic engineering classes, taught community college electronics classes for many years and can follow a lot of your work. But I lack automotive electronic principles at your level of understanding. For example why use a high speed or low speed network with a steering module? What possible use would this serve to anything else in the car? There is an amazing amount of data available as you demonstrate with your electronic tools but why would a manufacturer deal with this? I hope I am communicating with you that part of your videos that I have fuzzy thinking about. It is clear to me that you have this knowledge as to systematically zero in on the problems you face. Maybe you could include a link to a good book addressing my lack of understanding if possible. Thanks and keep up the high standards of your profession.
I believe the high speed network uses twisted pairs to communicate on. Maybe it's just the network engineer in me, but those wires stop twisting together pretty far from the connector. If it was my car I would probably twist them together all the way down to the connector.
Same symptoms happened to my 06 ss with the 2.4 vvt engine, tc cut off with extremely hard tire chirping gear shifts. The engine or trans or both ended up going into limp mode because of bad intake and exhaust vvt solenoids. I believe only the 2.4l engine has those solenoids though so it's up in the air. To reproduce the symptom it took an aggressive take off from a dead stop under heavy throttle. Dealerships couldn't figure it out, took a lot of reading through the forums to piece together a potential problem, but i will say that replacing those solenoids fixed the issue.
Eric you should do video on the 2000 to 2005 impala and monte Carlo ignition switch they cause a variety of different problems, including blower, and climate control issues,cruise and over head read out issues, and no starts.
Im willing to bet the storage drawer/trunk release has been moving or digging into that harness. As soon as i noticed mine was doing that I taped my harnesses out of the way.
wyattoneable: my thoughts exactly. It's better to learn than not learn, this is especially true in the automotive repair business. I've been done this road many times in repairing vehicles over the years. A symptom like this can be aggravating especially if the vehicle comes back many times.
Eric: Many years ago IBM looked for cold solder on PC boards by operating them with elevated heat on a vibrating table. Eliminated many failures in the field.
Many CNC machines have been fixed of an intermittent electrical / control problem by simply unplugging and re-seating a card or connector. Especially prevalent in high-speed, low voltage communication circuits. Film oxidation is a real-world problem.
Eric, sometimes weak factory crimps on terminals will cause these types of symptoms; very frustrating to pinpoint, but I would say that was the root cause in this case. Hi current crimps (bad) are a melt-down; but with the CAN network/ low current circuits they can do this to one in troubleshooting.
the advantage of manual window winders is that they are more reliable than the electric ones. It's very inconvenient when your electric winder fails open while your on a journey away from home, a problem I have never heard of with manual wind windows.
I have this issue with an 06 cobalt, no signal from o2, maf and evap purge solenoid. I used to be able to kick the floor under that harness and make it temporary work.
i have a 2009 cobalt and drive on gravel roads .i have to carry a paint stir stick to clean the mud /dirt on the inside of the rear drum brake mag or it will shake / vibrate your teeth out . the front disc brake mags pick up no mud at all . also there is a filter above the rear axel that can be blown out once a week or it will turn a dash lite on { for gas fumes , can't remember what it's called } . brilliant place to put a filter , pavement only car i guess .
Deoxit = The best contact cleaner available= had a friend with a Cavy and the ABS light would come on whenever the humidity was high. Turn off the engine to reset the warning and the next day same problem. Cleaned the contacts on both front wheel ABS sensors and no problems for ten years now.
I hate when I get stuff like this -- did I fix it, did I NOT fix it? Not much you can do but ship it and hope for the best. I make sure I tell my customers how complex modern cars are, and how the newer they are, the worse this gets. The chances of problems happening in 300 miles of wiring are pretty high. They're pretty understanding. I've never had anyone get mad at me. We're not magicians - we can't fix a problem that isn't occurring! Heck, even GM can't fix their OWN stuff that THEY built & engineered, half the time! Ford is no better - neighbor had to sue corporate to get a new V8 truck after his Ecoboost was still not fixed right. Would die on him randomly, while passing on a VT highway - pretty dangerous to have the thing fall on it's face when you've got traffic coming at you full bore, and people who are pissed that you passed them and won't let you back in! FoMoCo's own engineers flew out here to diag this thing, and in the end, we never found out what the problem was! Band-aid fixes, like detuning power output to try and mask the problem. In the end, he got a brand new V8 truck with 0 miles for $3,000. Still got screwed, IMO ... I still think computers belong on a DESK, NOT in a damn automobile! :)
Great video as always! cobalts have crappy steel rims that are known for bending. A used parts yard near me gets so many calls for them they keep new ones in stock.
Looks like you have the OTC diag equipment out. That’s my favorite B.O.B . But really don’t like there scan tools at all. Very disappointed in them. But as you say that’s just my personal opinion. Love your diag videos buy the way. The big three. South main. Pine hollow and last but definitely not least New level auto.
Yea have been there. Tarnish on the fitment area between the two devices. Did you fix the reviberation ? constant pulsations Really make for a unhappy connector. To update someone mentioned Di electric grease. If I see one of my connectors getting weird looking I brush on a bit and have never had a issue where it interferes with anything. I would agree that the lubrication characteristics would add some protection as well and prevent a tarnish in struggling areas of a contact. Again, Have been there and the worst is the not knowing anything definitive. Why dont you install a catch can on your H?
At the dealership we the database tool. We can see what module are on line and which are not. The first thing I do I check resistance at the dlc connector then go from there. Split the system in half check for 120 ohms, then move Towards the side that doesn't have 120 ohms. You know the rest.
My Cobalt only throws a traction control & abs light when it’s barely above freezing after a wet day. Also while sitting still at a traffic light or parking space. Never does it while moving & it locks the call until you do 2 starts, then it acts like nothing ever happened. Corroded wheel sensor? Note you only have voltage while the car’s moving, not still. Could be the traction control has a poor ground or something else going on. In warm weather, it’ll never do it.
got a company truck that would just die while driving for another forman so they gave it to me to see what was wrong with it first time in the ole chevy i change the steering wheel for me never had a problem with it till one of my guys changed the steering wheel figured it out pretty fast after that it just took about 6 months too find out it was in the ignition switch
thats where you are glad there is no id 10 t error codes programmed in. when you said they added grounds and played with wires right from the start its a bad omen. but then again anything with lead free solder is too
I have to wonder what some of those other shops would have done with this issue. Those who convince customers to pay for parts replacements. And a week or so later, the car comes back with the same problems, they do the same thing again by chucking parts are it. As I know it, a shop shouldn't get paid for things they do that doesn't correct the problem, only the thing that does yet shops collect undue fee's from their customers. Interesting how that occurs to way too many customers while Eric does his diagnosis for a one hour shop charge (in most cases) then explains to the customer what he has found and which path to take in correcting the problem. I wish there were more shops and dealerships who would perform their diag the same when they really can't make the call with 100% certainty. Too bad some of these connections and termination issues can't be taken to the manufactures and say, "hey, these parts are failing by defect in design", buy the car back until you learn a few lessons about design/dependability engineering in electronics.
Hello Erica your video came up on my RUclips channel cuz I'm trying to figure out a problem with my mechanic it's actually touched on a few basis but I just wondering if we want to run by this to you a couple days ago my Chevy Cobalt I was driving and everything around like I normally do every day and find when I came home turned it off and then turn off and I had to turn the key back on to the on position to turn it off now the power steering on the cluster came on says power steering the traction control light came on I knew a couple of the fuses were blue blue on that interior so I redid those when was blown under the junction box I redid that but went back out there today still doing the same thing and now my engine light and airbag light is indicated when the car is completely off in the keys out of the ignition it's throwing a p1682 code but we have a feeling it's electrical but since we've been watching your videos last couple days trying to figure out what is wrong with it you know you seem like the closest person to the problem I appreciate if you can get back to me as soon as possible and let me know what you think or what the problem
Hello, I have a Chevrolet Cobalt 2010 with a 2.2 engine, the electric throttle is broken, I can’t find the specified part in Georgia, can you help me and advise what other engine will fit with the specified engine?
So Eric..How do you charge the customer on something like that.? I know you've got probably way more time into it than you would charge anyways but when your still on the fence whether or not it was the fix.Makes it difficult to charge. Had something similar to that with a Explorer tachometer with a bad pin connection on the back of the cluster..believed I fixed it but still have that gut feeling that this could come back. even tho I couldn't get it to act up again while in the shop. Just would like to hear your thoughts and opinion over something like this. Especially if it does come back.. Thanks, Kevin
Chris Rainville I'm sure GM does and pretty much applies across the board with any other manufacturers..but that wasn't my question. Its when you have that ounce of doubt and can consciously charge the customer with the possibility of it coming back. Just wanted to hear from Eric on how he handled this scenario. Thanks
Im not Eric but one has to charge a minimum of a diagnostc fee. You tell the customer that you went through a troubleshooting proceedure and found a loose connection, applied dialetric greese and the issue went away, but due to the cost of a replacement powersteering control module replacement, plus the issue with the car unstable shaking could of lead to the connection issue returning . Its important as a consumer that they are made aware of what is found, so if f problem reoccurs then at the customers know they are facing a much higher expense, at that time would recommend changing power control module and fixing car shaking issue.
You charge for the diagnostic. Take good notes and keep them. Pick up where you left off if it returns with a related issue. Not charging for the 2nd time. Unless the malfunction is between the steering wheel and headrest!! LoL...
Cody MacKenna. Thanks..that sounds appropriate..in fact that's what I did. I Got a report from my guy with the Explorer and three weeks of driving and no problems yet.. So I feel comfortable that I did fix it. Thanks again for your thoughts too.
And remember if you can do it..i can do it.....well actualy i cant without a scope....unless i was lucky enough to move the right wire and correct the fault...good job eric o.
vestest.com/Termina-Fretting.pdf Investigate this link. It explains alot of the circumstances for intermittent electrical issues. I have all to often run into this identical type of concern/repair scenario after 36 years in GM dealers.. Great repair approach...SOLID ! And I completely understand your apprehension with releasing the vehicle as "repaired" The most important step in a repair is the repair verification process. We all like to see a smoking gun when making the call
I just repaired a slowbalt that would randomly die and restart after 20 minutes or so by replacing the negative battery terminal. The factory ones are crap and wouldn't tighten completely. it displayed codes p0606. p0700, p0335, u0100
I have the same issue, comes and goes. Mine also shakes horribly at 55 to 60. Have replaced everything in the front end so I'm assuming the electric power steering has the issue. But if you RUclips that job its a bit more then I'll attempt alone. Did these issues ever reveal themselves later down the road?
The ground on the front of the transmission is bad. They have 6 ground wires all going to one flimsy connector that over time gets corroded and looses connection.
There is a product called Stabilant 22 used in the electronic industry that goes a long way to improve conductivity with slip together connections and terminal contact areas
Another great video simple, fix but I'm sure your, not the only one where a unplug and reattach fixes it than left with the feeling oh crap. Maybe a big swig of the smart water would have helped.
I have found that crimped connections don't allways connect, even if they look perfect. I have had them with no connection at all up to 20 million ohms. Pins do go black, there will be a tiny black dot on the side of the pin where the sprung contact touches it. Dam annoying :-(
Intermittent communication problems are THE hardest ones to diagnose. Eric, I think that your approach was excellent in this case. The gentle tap and wiggle test is very effective, and can be the answer when there are no other clues. The hard part is telling the customer "well, I narrowed it down, but not 100% sure" after spending several hours on it!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics in situations like that how much would you charge? 1 hour of diag, no charge, etc? Or if you spend 4 hours working on would you charge the 4 hours??
If I'm doing the work I'm charging for it. Time and expensive equipment was used to do the diagnostics so they have to pay.
I charge different sometimes especially if it's a good customer & I know they come back to me if it occurs again or I am going to get the final repair. If it is a customer I know just wants me to diagnose the problem so they can do the repair then I'll charge them the time I spend if I have to disassemble & reassemble but most of the time I only charge the hour diagnostic time b/c sometimes you diagnose below the hour & it balances out. Again if it is one of my really good customers and I find it in 15 minutes and they are financially challenged then I will only charge the 15 minutes & time allotted to replace the part. Nothing is firm!
I find intermittent claudication to be an issue at times.
I agree, great approach. And yes, returning the vehicle without a definite "there's you're problem lady" is the sucky part. Outstanding job Eric
Another thing. When you break out the schematics and go through them step by step during your troubleshooting routine is priceless. I have learned a ton watching your troubleshooting methods. A million thanks to you. And again, Kay Man scared the hell out of me, LOL!
We worry too much that there is no definitive fault. However the customer is happy.. it’s fixed. I was just glad to see Old BOB again 👍
My sweetys 2006 cobalt has almost 190k with the original timing components still going and her car runs like a cool little blue rocket for her!! ((Yes I know I need to replace that ASAP)) I maintain it for her as far as oil changes, transmission service, brakes, etc and It has never let her down! Like all makes, they all produce a lemon here and there but with modern engineering and production, if maintained correctly at the required intervals, you eliminate unnecessary part failures. Yes like timing chains 😓 next weekend!!
You just did a diagnosis on this Cobalt that only 5 out of 100 mechanics/technicians can do. Incredible! Why don't you put your Controller Area Network diagnoses in separate Playlist on RUclips. I imagine if other shops see these types of videos they will seek you out to solve their problems. Another outstanding SMA thumbs up video production.
Agreed
But 1/20
My 06 Nissan Frontier did the same thing, the "U" code was the 4WD module under the dash. Cleaned the connections, problem solved. Network's happy, no problem with the 4WD module before and after cleaning and the code hasn't come back. Love those intermittents! They are the curse of the automotive industry!
Good possibility that you did fix it by unplugging and plugging back in (terminal fretting and all that). Great job narrowing it down Eric.
I fixed an issue on a Fiat vehicle with a connector for the electric windows that would randomly start and stop working. Normally after vibration. I traced it to the pins in the connector. They seemed ok. Cleaning and messing with them never fixed it. My friend who owned the vehicle told me to chop the connectors and solder the wires together. The van is only 2 or 3 years from the scrap yard anyway. Works fine since. Connector problems are a pain.
Top video Eric. Great to see some CAN stuff. My CAN and general networking knowledge on cars is terrible.
The way you approached it is top notch, you tried your best. 💪👍
Hey eric i respect your honesty becuase alot od techs/mechanic have too pride not to they dont know or load up the parts cannon and fires away thw saying is can't find can't fix
I've seen several issues like this before and fixed a few by simply re-soldering a circuit board connection. The female connector looked good and seemed to have the proper pin fit drag. I'm guessing its a bad solder joint where the male pin is connected to the power steering module circuit board. When Eric wiggled on the wire it transferred that motion to the male pin/solder joint area and gave it a temporary connection. During the next few heat/cold cycles and the vibration, I bet the issue will most likely reoccur.
Eric, I know what it is!!! I had the same issues with a 2007 Chevy Cobalt. I found out there is a stud on the front of the transmission that has a negative type wire screwed to it. I cleaned that terminal and mounting stud and poof all the codes, hard shifting went away.
g munson: so does that mean the stud is corroded or is there a bad contact? It seems as if that's the case.
Paul Kirkland yes and I cleaned the terminals, removed the stud and also cleaned that also. It causes the car to shift hard, misfire codes, and other goofy stuff. It's on the driver's side and it's right in the front. I wish I could post pictures.
The stud just unscrews from the mounting point.
Ford F series trucks have the same issue with their ground straps failing causing current to run through the transmission which ultimately damages the front pump plate in the transmission via electrolysis (automatic trans).
Thanks for pinpointing this issue.
I looked for the same harness and the wires where tightly kinked over. I disconnected the harness and turned the key on. The tracktion control light was off, so I think two of the wires were effected from stretching. I put it back together without siting the harness back on bracket and no trouble
One thing to do when there's a shake coming from the rear is to check the tire walls for damage. It's easy to damage the carcass by clipping a sharp concrete edge in a parking lot or somesuch and it does lead to the symptoms you describe. Needless to say driving around on a damaged tire is very dangerous. The guy at the tire centre who alerted me to the problem showed me by overinflating it. It let go at just 2.7 bar, while the recommended inflation pressure is 2.3 bar.
I agree with Chris Rainville's comment about the terminal fretting corrosion. Apparently, it is caused by heating/cooling cycles of the terminals, along with vibration. The friction over time causes a nonconductive, oxidized buildup that can only be seen under magnification in most cases. Simply unplugging and reconnecting the connector can fix the problem. It seems that this issue is new to the automotive world, possibly due to the tin-coated terminals used today. I wonder if this issue would no longer occur if the terminals were solid brass as were used in older vehicles. But, then again, as many people have mentioned, it happens in air bag terminals as well, and those are supposedly gold-plated for corrosion prevention.
Anything air tight will eventually get moisture inside (condensation) from temperature cycles. I'm not sure if these "termination plugs" on most vehicles are truly air tight but those green seals appear to give that impression. As nice as they are weatherproof, condensation is the issue that needs to be addressed.
Nice diagnostic video Eric and the issues we run into isolating intermittent issues. Sometimes it's terminal fretting and simply unplugging, DeOxit5 and reconnecting takes care of it but then again is it a module terminal that was the connection issue and will come back. I'd have done the same and gave it back to the customer. If it comes back then probably be a module change and then again it may be fixed for good...time will tell.
I have a 2010 cobalt and randomly when I slam on the brakes, the trans will start to kick when shifting 2nd gear. Its and automatic and this doesnt always happen. After turning it off and turning it back on this issue may go away until I need to slam on the breaks again.. what is it?
Chevy says trans solenoid?
I have a Turbo Cobalt and had the steering column out and the motor. I did a test drive and esc is going crazy. I plugged it all back in as it was. I guess I gotta check tomorrow and make 100% sure.
Great job as always Eric always love seeing communication issues others run into. And definitely cant beat a pico for looking at the network. Thanks for sharing with us
Had a 2005 Cobalt myself. Had a similar issue, no one could figure it out b/c it didnt happen when we wanted it to. every time it acted up I would just unplug one of the connectors at the BCM (closest vertical one to the passenger seat) and it would be fine for a few months.
The power steering could have been touched due to the Recall for the Power steering failing,
Mr. O. Maybe your not too far off target. Remember, if you want a good electrical connection, start with a good mechanical connection. Good Job !!
My anxiety was through the ROOF when you were going down the road showing the laptop. I need to see where we're going!!! Watch the road!!!!
I'm not a mechanic, but perhaps if you had some short pigtails that you could insert between the male and female portions of the connector then maybe you could wiggle each male pin independently to see if the problem was related to one or more of the male pins. Just a thought.
Hard to find fault with an intermittent problem. Hard to find those electrical gremlins. Nice job of troubleshooting though Eric. It's a crap shoot with no hard failure. Keep us posted. Good video.great troubleshooting nice plan of attack.
Thank you Eric. You and your family have a blessed Christmas.
It's never a waste of time when you have a positive outcome !
I recalled the g6 and was already thinking how that ps module cost was going to hurt, but ty for your thoroughness, end of day base gm car + shaking bad = bad things happen , hope she fixed
Another problem that was supposed to never happen for the life of the car. I suppose when something like this happens with self driving cars, it will park itself by the road and automatically call the flat bed, or maybe drive itself to the dealer in limp mode?
Or just abruptly try to park itself at highway speeds
always amazed how fast you isolate problem location..
This is why I much prefer my old 2000 Ford. Non-ABS model with no computers except engine management. :-) I may have to weld it every two years but, I'd rather pay £100-£200 each year at MOT than buy a newer £2-3,000 car and have problems. I couldn't care if someone crashed into my old Ford tomorrow, I'll just go out and buy another. Disposable cars are the best.
Good catch Eric.. just had a similar occurrence on a Lexus ECM.. turns out to be a cold solder joints on the multi layer PCB socket pins.. thx to Lead free soldering and Cancer haters
I have a 2008 Chevy cobalt that has been doing the same thing! The mechanic has had it for over a week drove it the first two days but nothing happening but then all of a sudden it started messing up the gauge would go crazy I would go all the way up and all the way down fuel would say low fuel and back up to fuel it was just nuts he change the transmission control modulator and still has not figured out what’s wrong. Thank you for your video I can send this to him and maybe he can figure it out.
Right about the time you started wiggling the harness, my internet connection slowed to sub-dialup speeds. Stop wiggling the harness, Eric! You're breaking the internet! LOL
Hopefully just terminal fretting. Dielectric grease after cleaning is a recommended GM fix. Also isolating the connector from vibration/movement is also recommended.
where do you smear the dielectric grease? On the outside of the connection? end?
On the female end of the connector. You can push it into the female pins with your finger.
www.vestest.com/Termina-Fretting.pdf
dielectric grease is a gm BS for me, dielectric grease is insulation
It is insulation, but where the metal is actually making contact it will get scraped off enough to make good contact. The point of it is to prevent the other parts of the connection from oxidizing or corroding. Effectively it seals in the contact parts. You wouldn't want something that was conductive because it would potentially short out between pins.
I love your thoroughness in troubleshooting !! I have a similar issue with a 12’ Cruze that looses the dash cluster rpm&speed and kicks on CEL, stabilitrack, power steering. Codes have been consistent with U0100 and P0700 most of the time BUT have seen others as well. Once it loses signal, it drops into limp mode / hard shifts /stuck in 2nd etc. I have replaced the battery cable and it was fine for (2) days(100miles) but all back again. Also if I shut it off it will not restart for 2 mins . I cleaned all grounds, fusebox and ecm connections. Cleaned transmission connection as well a BCM. No sign of mice or chewed wires that I can see but now wondering if it’s just a bad ECM?? Have you encountered this same issue??
Nice job finding that needle in the haystack.
My cobalt just acquired this hard shifting issue. It started soon after I tried to adjust the steering wheel position. I’m going to check the harnesses to see if they came loose when I moved the steering wheel around.
I have a 2007 Cobalt, very similar to this one you show. I get the same symptoms in the rain. When it's dry all is good. In the rain I get the codes. I've had it happen a few times. Usually it happens just when i start the car. Recently it's happened while driving. The car goes into low power mode.
What was the problem?
@@yacoubhijazeen9934 OMG I haven't had that car for like 4 years now. I can't remember.
Looks like the mechanical vibration problems just shook the car apart enough to cause the electrical connections to break connection.
Hi! Another great video! I can follow a lot of the techniques you do. I believe you requested some feedback from us viewers about what to maybe include in your content. You do an excellent portrayal of your technique, knowledge and problem correction from the business point of view, after all this is your livelihood. This I would not change and maybe this is where you intend your viewers to be also, which is great. What would be an enhancement in my understanding of your channel would be a little review of automotive electronics thrown in. You have learned a lot from workshops and practical experience that I am missing. I took university electronic engineering classes, taught community college electronics classes for many years and can follow a lot of your work. But I lack automotive electronic principles at your level of understanding. For example why use a high speed or low speed network with a steering module? What possible use would this serve to anything else in the car? There is an amazing amount of data available as you demonstrate with your electronic tools but why would a manufacturer deal with this? I hope I am communicating with you that part of your videos that I have fuzzy thinking about. It is clear to me that you have this knowledge as to systematically zero in on the problems you face. Maybe you could include a link to a good book addressing my lack of understanding if possible. Thanks and keep up the high standards of your profession.
I believe the high speed network uses twisted pairs to communicate on. Maybe it's just the network engineer in me, but those wires stop twisting together pretty far from the connector. If it was my car I would probably twist them together all the way down to the connector.
Same thing on a hhr. Track control light comes on transmission runs harsh. After vehicle sits for a little while, everything works ok on a restart.
Same symptoms happened to my 06 ss with the 2.4 vvt engine, tc cut off with extremely hard tire chirping gear shifts. The engine or trans or both ended up going into limp mode because of bad intake and exhaust vvt solenoids. I believe only the 2.4l engine has those solenoids though so it's up in the air. To reproduce the symptom it took an aggressive take off from a dead stop under heavy throttle. Dealerships couldn't figure it out, took a lot of reading through the forums to piece together a potential problem, but i will say that replacing those solenoids fixed the issue.
Eric, watching that communication wave form caused my brain to go into an epileptic seizure, that was painful, but educational, thanks!
Eric you should do video on the 2000 to 2005 impala and monte Carlo ignition switch they cause a variety of different problems, including blower, and climate control issues,cruise and over head read out issues, and no starts.
Im willing to bet the storage drawer/trunk release has been moving or digging into that harness. As soon as i noticed mine was doing that I taped my harnesses out of the way.
You did your best and that's all that can be expected. Thanks for the video, at least we can learn from it.
wyattoneable: my thoughts exactly. It's better to learn than not learn, this is especially true in the automotive repair business. I've been done this road many times in repairing vehicles over the years. A symptom like this can be aggravating especially if the vehicle comes back many times.
Eric: Many years ago IBM looked for cold solder on PC boards by operating them with elevated heat on a vibrating table. Eliminated many failures in the field.
Thank you for your video, it is nice to see a technician instead of a parts changer , I subscribed to your publication, thanks again
I agree with you I think it might have been a connection issue on the inside of the power steering control module looks like they crack solder joint
Many CNC machines have been fixed of an intermittent electrical / control problem by simply unplugging and re-seating a card or connector. Especially prevalent in high-speed, low voltage communication circuits. Film oxidation is a real-world problem.
Eric, sometimes weak factory crimps on terminals will cause these types of symptoms; very frustrating to pinpoint, but I would say that was the root cause in this case. Hi current crimps (bad) are a melt-down; but with the CAN network/ low current circuits they can do this to one in troubleshooting.
Manny. Yes it is but when diluted properly with alcohol, one small bottle will last years
the advantage of manual window winders is that they are more reliable than the electric ones.
It's very inconvenient when your electric winder fails open while your on a journey away from home, a problem I have never heard of with manual wind windows.
Another great diagnostic video, thanks again. Loved the comment by Kay Man.
I have this issue with an 06 cobalt, no signal from o2, maf and evap purge solenoid. I used to be able to kick the floor under that harness and make it temporary work.
NO COMS. My favorite videos!!!
i have a 2009 cobalt and drive on gravel roads .i have to carry a paint stir stick to clean the mud /dirt on the inside of the rear drum brake mag or it will shake / vibrate your teeth out . the front disc brake mags pick up no mud at all . also there is a filter above the rear axel that can be blown out once a week or it will turn a dash lite on { for gas fumes , can't remember what it's called } . brilliant place to put a filter , pavement only car i guess .
A very interesting case. It's been over a year, did the customer ever bring it back for the same issue?
Deoxit = The best contact cleaner available= had a friend with a Cavy and the ABS light would come on whenever the humidity was high. Turn off the engine to reset the warning and the next day same problem. Cleaned the contacts on both front wheel ABS sensors and no problems for ten years now.
I hate when I get stuff like this -- did I fix it, did I NOT fix it? Not much you can do but ship it and hope for the best. I make sure I tell my customers how complex modern cars are, and how the newer they are, the worse this gets. The chances of problems happening in 300 miles of wiring are pretty high. They're pretty understanding. I've never had anyone get mad at me.
We're not magicians - we can't fix a problem that isn't occurring!
Heck, even GM can't fix their OWN stuff that THEY built & engineered, half the time! Ford is no better - neighbor had to sue corporate to get a new V8 truck after his Ecoboost was still not fixed right. Would die on him randomly, while passing on a VT highway - pretty dangerous to have the thing fall on it's face when you've got traffic coming at you full bore, and people who are pissed that you passed them and won't let you back in! FoMoCo's own engineers flew out here to diag this thing, and in the end, we never found out what the problem was! Band-aid fixes, like detuning power output to try and mask the problem. In the end, he got a brand new V8 truck with 0 miles for $3,000. Still got screwed, IMO ... I still think computers belong on a DESK, NOT in a damn automobile! :)
Great video as always! cobalts have crappy steel rims that are known for bending. A used parts yard near me gets so many calls for them they keep new ones in stock.
Tom Schmick m
true
The DIY screw holes in the dash right in front of the steering control module...
I had the same sort of situation on an 05 Cobalt mine was a bad power steering module and a aftermarket radio
Looks like you have the OTC diag equipment out. That’s my favorite B.O.B . But really don’t like there scan tools at all. Very disappointed in them. But as you say that’s just my personal opinion. Love your diag videos buy the way. The big three. South main. Pine hollow and last but definitely not least New level auto.
The vehicle has intermittent connection problems...which are often system-wide when there is a poor ground connection.
Yea have been there. Tarnish on the fitment area between the two devices. Did you fix the reviberation ? constant pulsations Really make for a unhappy connector. To update someone mentioned Di electric grease. If I see one of my connectors getting weird looking I brush on a bit and have never had a issue where it interferes with anything. I would agree that the lubrication characteristics would add some protection as well and prevent a tarnish in struggling areas of a contact. Again, Have been there and the worst is the not knowing anything definitive.
Why dont you install a catch can on your H?
Fascinating look at an intermittent com issue. Thanks!
15.2V is the normal max voltage for these systems if battery SOC is low... you simply drained the battery while diagnosing
At the dealership we the database tool. We can see what module are on line and which are not. The first thing I do I check resistance at the dlc connector then go from there. Split the system in half check for 120 ohms, then move Towards the side that doesn't have 120 ohms. You know the rest.
"Tap Test"= Find nearest metal support, give it a blast with Big Nasty. That will easily mimic any "running vibrations".
Sucks that it fixed itself. I've had that happen to me. I usually chalk it up to bad connection and use electric diode grease
My Cobalt only throws a traction control & abs light when it’s barely above freezing after a wet day. Also while sitting still at a traffic light or parking space. Never does it while moving & it locks the call until you do 2 starts, then it acts like nothing ever happened. Corroded wheel sensor? Note you only have voltage while the car’s moving, not still. Could be the traction control has a poor ground or something else going on. In warm weather, it’ll never do it.
got a company truck that would just die while driving for another forman so they gave it to me to see what was wrong with it first time in the ole chevy i change the steering wheel for me never had a problem with it till one of my guys changed the steering wheel figured it out pretty fast after that it just took about 6 months too find out it was in the ignition switch
Mr. O, you would make an excellent instructor at a tech school.
It looks like there may be twisted pairs touching the back of the power steering motor at 4:47. It's hard to tell from the angle in the video though.
thats where you are glad there is no id 10 t error codes programmed in. when you said they added grounds and played with wires right from the start its a bad omen. but then again anything with lead free solder is too
gm has had a great many issues with wire connections. also corrosion inside the tps also causes ruff shifting with no trouble codes
I have to wonder what some of those other shops would have done with this issue. Those who convince customers to pay for parts replacements. And a week or so later, the car comes back with the same problems, they do the same thing again by chucking parts are it. As I know it, a shop shouldn't get paid for things they do that doesn't correct the problem, only the thing that does yet shops collect undue fee's from their customers. Interesting how that occurs to way too many customers while Eric does his diagnosis for a one hour shop charge (in most cases) then explains to the customer what he has found and which path to take in correcting the problem. I wish there were more shops and dealerships who would perform their diag the same when they really can't make the call with 100% certainty. Too bad some of these connections and termination issues can't be taken to the manufactures and say, "hey, these parts are failing by defect in design", buy the car back until you learn a few lessons about design/dependability engineering in electronics.
Hello Erica your video came up on my RUclips channel cuz I'm trying to figure out a problem with my mechanic it's actually touched on a few basis but I just wondering if we want to run by this to you a couple days ago my Chevy Cobalt I was driving and everything around like I normally do every day and find when I came home turned it off and then turn off and I had to turn the key back on to the on position to turn it off now the power steering on the cluster came on says power steering the traction control light came on I knew a couple of the fuses were blue blue on that interior so I redid those when was blown under the junction box I redid that but went back out there today still doing the same thing and now my engine light and airbag light is indicated when the car is completely off in the keys out of the ignition it's throwing a p1682 code but we have a feeling it's electrical but since we've been watching your videos last couple days trying to figure out what is wrong with it you know you seem like the closest person to the problem I appreciate if you can get back to me as soon as possible and let me know what you think or what the problem
Hello, I have a Chevrolet Cobalt 2010 with a 2.2 engine, the electric throttle is broken, I can’t find the specified part in Georgia, can you help me and advise what other engine will fit with the specified engine?
I love this, should title this video Realtime Pico Data Wiggle Test
So Eric..How do you charge the customer on something like that.? I know you've got probably way more time into it than you would charge anyways but when your still on the fence whether or not it was the fix.Makes it difficult to charge. Had something similar to that with a Explorer tachometer with a bad pin connection on the back of the cluster..believed I fixed it but still have that gut feeling that this could come back. even tho I couldn't get it to act up again while in the shop. Just would like to hear your thoughts and opinion over something like this. Especially if it does come back..
Thanks, Kevin
exmotorsports GM CONSIDERS IT FIXED IF YOU HAVE COMMUNICATION AND ALL CODES ARE GONE.
Chris Rainville I'm sure GM does and pretty much applies across the board with any other manufacturers..but that wasn't my question. Its when you have that ounce of doubt and can consciously charge the customer with the possibility of it coming back. Just wanted to hear from Eric on how he handled this scenario. Thanks
Im not Eric but one has to charge a minimum of a diagnostc fee. You tell the customer that you went through a troubleshooting proceedure and found a loose connection, applied dialetric greese and the issue went away, but due to the cost of a replacement powersteering control module replacement, plus the issue with the car unstable shaking could of lead to the connection issue returning . Its important as a consumer that they are made aware of what is found, so if f problem reoccurs then at the customers know they are facing a much higher expense, at that time would recommend changing power control module and fixing car shaking issue.
You charge for the diagnostic. Take good notes and keep them. Pick up where you left off if it returns with a related issue. Not charging for the 2nd time. Unless the malfunction is between the steering wheel and headrest!! LoL...
Cody MacKenna. Thanks..that sounds appropriate..in fact that's what I did. I Got a report from my guy with the Explorer and three weeks of driving and no problems yet.. So I feel comfortable that I did fix it. Thanks again for your thoughts too.
Have you ever heard of Stabilant 22. It is is Contact enhancer Used by NASA ?
Curing the shake/rattle/vibe will probably fix the other...lol...I am directed that way. That's an opportunity for a suggestive upsell😉
same problem changed the fluid and filter than flush it out worked for me. Might not work for but did for me
And remember if you can do it..i can do it.....well actualy i cant without a scope....unless i was lucky enough to move the right wire and correct the fault...good job eric o.
vestest.com/Termina-Fretting.pdf Investigate this link. It explains alot of the circumstances for intermittent electrical issues. I have all to often run into this identical type of concern/repair scenario after 36 years in GM dealers.. Great repair approach...SOLID ! And I completely understand your apprehension with releasing the vehicle as "repaired" The most important step in a repair is the repair verification process. We all like to see a smoking gun when making the call
I just repaired a slowbalt that would randomly die and restart after 20 minutes or so by replacing the negative battery terminal. The factory ones are crap and wouldn't tighten completely. it displayed codes p0606. p0700, p0335, u0100
I have the same issue, comes and goes. Mine also shakes horribly at 55 to 60. Have replaced everything in the front end so I'm assuming the electric power steering has the issue. But if you RUclips that job its a bit more then I'll attempt alone. Did these issues ever reveal themselves later down the road?
Crazy thought here, is there any talk in the industry of fiber optic cables replacing copper wires? Just wondering
2008 equinox sometimes the key will not turn all the way back allowing it to come out. after a few seconds the key will rotate and come out
The ground on the front of the transmission is bad. They have 6 ground wires all going to one flimsy connector that over time gets corroded and looses connection.
There is a product called Stabilant 22 used in the electronic industry that goes a long way to improve conductivity with slip together connections and terminal contact areas
Donald Pauli It's pricey. I looked into buying some, but changed my mind.
Another great video simple, fix but I'm sure your, not the only one where a unplug and reattach fixes it than left with the feeling oh crap. Maybe a big swig of the smart water would have helped.
I have found that crimped connections don't allways connect, even if they look perfect.
I have had them with no connection at all up to 20 million ohms.
Pins do go black, there will be a tiny black dot on the side of the pin where the sprung contact touches it.
Dam annoying :-(
God I love your 30 min episodes
My car is doing this same problem ? I have a awsome master mechanic should I tell him to do the same check you are so he can trace it down?
PHAD and SMA on the same day? It's going to be a good day :).
Michael Gleason When the day does not require an AK. Then it is good. ☺
Soo honest , any other shop would have sold them a new module