One of my favorite things to do as a BB is when the cyclones roll in, using the minimap to shoot ships beyond what I can see. It's so satisfying to absolutely dunk a another ship that can't see me. And I can't see it
Especially when you try it with german BB´s. 99% of the time its gonna be pure misery, but that 1% you will remember. I aimed at BB outside of my range and managed to hit three ships, killing two of them (both in one-shot level of HP), none of which was the BB i was aiming at.
Its all coming to the EGO of a well know person in the WG, who is making everything in his power to prove that his way is right and ignoring the easiest fix to the problem he created.
WG can't do it as it would mean admitting the community has been right for over 5 years and they just ignored us. Plus removing spotting damage would nerf CVs snd they probably still have their artificial target of keeping CV play at least as "popular" as before the CV rework.
Also one other important change on the console version they are implementing is that skip bombers must skip their bombs atleast once before they detonate, so that will prevent skip bombers from dropping their bombs directly on a destroyer and instantly deleting them
IMHO WG likes everything what makes matches take less time bc its less server time (cost) and also more consumables hopefully payed too. So they either let us experience CV spotting or bring more hybrids. Anyway you don't see CVs currently in many matches or some modes have them off atm. I played DD in ranked 6vs6 (MM was: 2BBs, 1 Alaska +3DDs on each side. But only enemy had 2x Kearsarge + Halford. We got no hybrid.The amount of getting spotted or simply that risk was so big, none of our ships made it to cap any of 3 center line caps during whole match).
If anyone has ever played the older game NavyField, spotting for your team was the primary function for CVs. Games were won by what team could out spotted the other. In real life, WW2 the primary function for the aircraft literally was recon, attacking was secondary. Except for Japan, they Kamikazed for days. Arguably thats probably one reason they lost the pacific war.
To be realistic, the pilot of the plane that spots an enemy ship would report its lat/long (i.e., to the mini-map) -- but about half the time would get either the location, the course, or the type of ship wrong. ;-) Then, about half the time the info from the pilots would take hours to get retransmitted to the other fleets in the area....
I think what WG should do is Minimap Spotting with some tweak AA enhancement. This usually my idea when people asking me how do I change the AA defenses on Ships. Making all Dual Purpose Guns work as an AA when pressing O. This will make all Main and Secondaries convert to shoot down planes. Each barrel is their own flaks. Means for example, San Diego have 12 127 guns. = 12 additional Flaks. These add on flaks has larger radius than regular flaks. They are less accurate but each hit equals to the gun’s HE alpha damage. For example, if Mogami (155) have blast radius during flak mode of 0.5m. These guns does thr same damage as its HE damage on aircrafts. But, these flaks are inaccurate and requires half of it’s main gun reload time. Means, if a ship like Yamato shoots on AA mode. Her main Battery reload will be cut by half, fighting enemy aircrafts. But, Yamato is a special case, she shoot Type 3 Shells that does low flak damage 1/4 of HE damage, but it will affect every single of Aircraft squadrons. Means it can convert all aircrafts into Yellow Health. This also means that Battleships will be better AA in general, due to its nature of having lots of secondaries. The secondaries will also being reworked. Now Secondaries will have equal range of any ships that have the same gun. Means if Yamato have 155mm. That 155 secondaries range will be as equal as Mogami. Bismarck 150 and 105 will have equal range of German Destroyers. 128 will have standard of 11km. The downside is that, All secondaries will now have reloading issue, as it will share the same reload rate as those ships that equip the same gun. Iowa Class will have 10Km Secondary range with Gearing’s Reload Rate. This is a buff for Bbs in general and make the enemy approch more interesting. But the downside of these buffs is that, Secondaries have even less health than before. AP can knock those out pretty easy. To combat this. Captain skills will be rework slightly by only decrease dispersion and the secondaries will also affected by Adrenaline Rush skills. The reload rate of Adrenaline Rush also affect Secondaries on AA mode too. Why I propose this secondaries change? Because let’s be real, secondaries on ships are quite uesless in most situations apart you are either German or Italian. What’s the purpose of US and IJN secondaries? So I decided to propose this idea so that secondaries doesn’t felt like a total useless and can be a personal BB self defense weapon, like what IT IS DESIGN TO DO. Sure, it’s crazy to have Yamato with 16km Secondary range, but I am not finished explained yet. Not all secondaries being treated equally. Means, those guns follows the same rules pf cruisers or destroyers. If you have secondaries that have 2 different caliber. It will have different ranges. For example. Yamato secondary range of 155 are 16km with 10 seconds of reload, while her 127mm share the same gun range as shimakaze with 5 seconds reload. Yes, this does affect other IJN BBs as well. Such as Amagi with 140mm guns. Have 12km ranges. While 127 only have 9+ km. Basically, those larger secondaries will hit you but it takes their time to kill you. But the closer you are the more dangerous it gets. Like how it should be against BBs. DDs need to adapt this fight by using island as advantages.
Honestly, they could double the AA on every ship in the game and high tier carriers would still be able to work perfectly fine. It's always been bullshit that unless you have a minotaur next to you, 3 battleships with no damaged AA would just have to eat anything a Roosevelt sent at them.
Next you will have to buy spotting planes as a consumable in the armory. I don't play CV's as my injured hand can run them so miss some missions anyway. I will want clouds in game with windows in them to spot threw as a variable.
Imagine a fuel limit or 'ferry range' restriction for aircraft...Risk your hull by getting closer for more time/range or risk losing your squadron if you just fly around spotting everything for too long. I have said that is a solid fix for years, easy to implement and I think most players would see it as a fair change for both sides.
Coming from the title, i think it's because of the Musashi, partly. Think about it, the whole fighter spotting thing made the 899 div so OP, or just strong as hell. So people will be more willing to spend money to get or H Gamble for Musashi, Graf Zeppelin, or a CV that has an Armored Flight Deck to avoid getting nuked 2 minutes into the match. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the reason.
Minimap spotting is already in the game. WoWS PC refusues to use it for plane only spotting and won't say why. Meanwhile, we are supposed to trust the proposed changes will not break the game completely. This is right after the current season of Clan Battles broke the game on live in this patch. Twice.
Oh hey, wondered when you would cover this lmao First thing I thought when they announced these changes was “Sea Lord is definitely gonna notice this” 😆
Plane spotting should be limited to dedicated spotting planes. In the instance of CVs. Spotting planes should fly out in a straight line to a targeted spot. Turn 90 degrees left or right. Fly 6km then return to CV.
Yeah I used to play PC and but PC broke and so started console WoWs and I saw this I laughed so hard cause I just know you were gonna make a video on it. On a side note CVs on Console practically perfect now only thing people complain about other than die heart haters of CVs is restoration time because most CVs can’t get deplaned anymore lol but that will probably be fixed
Any nerf to carriers will be good. Obviously WG will get it wrong. But the truth is that if they actually "balanced" carriers; no one would play them. Which would be great, but WG is dead set against it. I have no clue why.
WowL is alright. But the moment you got the ships. You notice some of the ships consumable are few and missing. It is intentionally happen cus they "balance" and controller buttons are few. They dont want button bind them to use consumable.
Doing that sends a squadron back to the carrier, which is done to preserve planes at the start of the game (when ships are more grouped up and AA mounts haven’t been destroyed yet)
Its not surprising, WG doesnt have brainpower to actually make their "grandiose plans" work this decade. Were talking about the level of ineptitude that tried ti add simple mechanics (just slight dervivative of already existing ones) and still managed to introduce one of the worst bugs in modern PvP gaming.
under the new carrier rework destroyesr become invisible as it takes to long to set up the attacks on them and destroyers are the carriers main adversary.. It basically means that carriers have been nerfed so badly that they wont be worth playing anymore.
They had to pull it because the consuls didn’t have the power to run the game like that and more of the issues was they didn’t have the numbers of buttons & controller ability to control/draw the RTS parts of the game
Considering it all. I'd like the ability to STILL be able to See enemy ships as a CV lover! But I'll totally allow it where. only the CV spots you. and the others only see your location. Sure spotting will be gone...But at least the CV player can still farm damage, and at the best. intercept enemy ships in time. Unless the attacking planes causes the enemy to be fully detected for a short period of time. Then brief spotting damage. As for fighters? Might as well turn all fighters into combat air patrol. So if you still insist on spotting. have those planes. as they can SPOT. but the spotting range is very poor. (Essex's fighter planes spotting range. which will only be used to spot DDs and subs. otherwise for pure defense against the enemy CV planes.) German CVs and Support US CVs will be still going well. While the rest will become less useful.
It’s also important to point out that CVs on Legends were actually quite weak, they were nothing more than a gnat in your room, nothing will happen but it’s there
Unbelievable. Considering the actual code to do minimap spotting only already exists, why would they not use it. Especially considering the code base is absolutely fked beyond saving and ANY little change can introduce bugs of major proportion.
If I had to guess maybe they are afraid of messing with 2D minimap spotting because they are tied to both cyclone mechanics and radar? And they don't want to break those? Thinking about it, couldn't they just make the planes reference the radar mechanic for spotting? You know make it 2D spotting and if the planes stay spotting for around 5 seconds or more it becomes 3D spotting?
How many CV haters have actually play a reasonable amount of CVs? As a CV enjoyer, allow me to give some insight as to how they _actually_ work. _Most_ ships are able to shoot down 2-3 planes during an attack run. So, if you have three runs in a squadron, you use one, lose one, and have one remaining. *Those 2-3 planes add up over time.* Yes, we can place fighters to do spotting, but you have to balance out being able to actually spot ships with them being able to shoot back. Put them too close, there go your planes. Too far away, there go you targets. (Plus some players will go out of their way to shoot down spotters.) If you're actually doing your job, you'll (at least try to) spot for all 3 flanks. If you're on the right flank, and need to help the left, that takes a few minutes. Yes, planes are faster than destroyers (shocking I know,) but traveling that far is _painfully_ slow. Especially if you're trying to save your teammate from the enemy CV. As for actual attacking, *nobody* talks about bombers having mis-assist. Far too many times, I've had a ship _wider than the reticle_ just get ignored by bombs. You can make your bombers wait for the very last second, minimum size reticle and _STILL_ miss a Yamato or Preussen. *That's a wheelbarrow of bullcrap.* Play 300 rounds as a carrier (or a sub,) and actually learn how they operate. CV (and sub) haters hate them because of their very nature. They're good at spotting, and not being in danger.
Lesta went back on 2D map spotting amigo, it wasn't implemented and their working on more sweeping changes. Legends did it as a suite of massive changes, not as a stand alone thing. Mini map only spotting has severe issues, namely that CV's will functionally be unable to defend themselves in the event of DD rushes even if they do spot them coming right at them as long as the DD doesn't stupidly fire his guns. Additionally a lot of DD's are currently balanced around CV's menacing them and I expect torpedo DD's to go absolutely crazy in the absolute absence of CV spotting, especially the pan asian DD's. Finally, CV damage is going to explode as good CV players stop engaging in team play and simply farm out BB's since the game no longer wants/allows them to be useful in that manner, and since all CV's will bring is damage, it'll actually be justified.
About DDs being more powerful, you're wrong. How do we do when there are no CVs in the game then??? Crazy, i know. If anything that will be a light cruisers buff.
@@solidtoto My most played ship is Shimakaze, in the presence of a CV, I'm severely handicapped, when a CV isn't in play it's a massive advantage. If I play it right, even if a cruiser has positioned himself for an ambush, he still won't be able to make a play since I can have battleship support thanks to my spotting. Also, we did have an era with minimal CV interference, back in the RTS CV days, guess what, BB players complained DD's were disgustingly overpowered. We've seen massive power creep since then, but DD's have been held down by CV's so it's been hard to feel.
@@Notalent1337 Wow someone else able to remember the RTS CV days, and how powerful DDs were/felt back then!? I was starting to think I was the only one. Let's not also forget that back during RTS CVs, we only had a couple of gunboat DDs with bad concealment, now we have a shit load more, and the chances of your team spawning with a gunboat vs a fast stealthy torp boat is VERY high. Without CVs to pick up the slack spotting, you basically lose if the stealthy DD is half decent at the game. When CV spotting is removed, DDs are going to be the make or break point for teams, and it's going to be extremely painful for everyone else. I actually remember being excited when the CV change happened that I could play a class that actually countered DDs. Then Wargaming nerfed the shit out of CVs ability to directly attack DDs, leaving them no option but to keep them spotted and pray, now they are taking away that option as well.
@@Stephen__White You can still attack DDs. But the one nerf where attack planes can't fire missile right away will make them miss more often against DDs unless you time the attack correctly. Bombers that are HE will have a better chance of hitting DDs. But yes. DDs are fast. More so with French DDs. God too bloody fast!
@@dominquedoty458 Yeah I know, I play Brit CVs just so I can still fairly easily dunk on DDs, can't do a huge amount to much else, but those carpet bombs can make fairly quick work of a DD. And German CV rockets are still really easy to hit DDs with, they just don't deal the most damage.
Let’s talk about WoW Blitz… who still uses RTS gameplay for CVs where you can have up to 7 flights of aircraft at once still, can spot with them, and absolutely wreck the enemy team.
Take away spotting, give more fuel. Take away damage but give more attacks.so basically changing nothing. If I can do 100 damage 1 time or 1 damage 100 times, nothing changes.
My question is: What does WG have against us the PC player base? It´s because of us that have spent so much money on the game that they are what they are today!! I hate how they always find a way to ignore what we have ask for to make the game better. Then they wonder why so many former hard core full time players are now casual part time players.
WG will never implement minimap spotting because that would mean they acknowledge the "vocal minority" knows more about the game than them. They don't want to give the community more strength to pushback on their bad ideas.
The CV changes coming to wows pc sound interesting tho, much more interesting than 2d mini map spotting. To me it does not sound like the attack mode for spotting will we the attack mode where you aim your shots, i think the spotting mode will the same thing as the what planes are currently, can spot, but can also be shot down. I think the travel mode is the new thing, where planes are high up in the sky, and can't spot, but probably travel faster and can't be shot down.
The problem is exactly that, we don't know, they haven't given any specifics so we are only able to speculate and what little information they gave doesn't answer anything of how much it's gonna affect CVs and AA, is it gonna make AA more useless? Or is gonna make CVs useless? Also in high altitude mode the planes can still be spotted by ships and shot down if the ships use the Defensive AA consumable.
not supporting WG in NOT doing what you said, but for the "hard to code" it can be true, the game and it engine are "old", it is possible that most if not all of the one who coded the game at first aren't working thre anymore so the newer dev don't know how to sort the code on pc ( explaining all tyhose bugs). but if they can just do like in storm that would be enough. another point could be it would nerf the CV spotting dmg ( a mechanic so bad that you never know why you get spotting dmg or not)
WG's pc team obviously lacks the skill to change cv spotting. As an example of the skill level to team pc. Any change they've made in years that end up crapping on the game. (zero health invincible gaming)
This change on console is really going to hinder team gameplay. Its basically a buff for destroyers in essence. Turning CVs into just damage farming for themselves cause no one else can shoot at what they spot. Whiny ass DD players just want to be able to torp spam.
just bring back rts-cv with more balance in damage and earning for providing aa cover(but without stupid fighter-only setaps), also you can use after-2019 cv gameplay for a new line of escort cv while large strike one can have a god damn normal cv gameplay with 7-8 plane groups instead of this autistic solo-group gameplay
The thing is all making CV spotting minimap only doesn't solve many of the issues people have with CVs. All it does is isolate CVs into their own little bubble. A CV can still go and find that flanking DD and tell their team where he is, effectively "ruining" the game for that DD player. A CV can still attack the same isolated target, again, and again, and again until it's dead no problem. A CV can still attack island hugging cruisers that wouldn't be able to be attacked or spotted otherwise. A CV will still deal the exact same damage they deal now. Minimap only spotting also still tells your team what ship is where. All it does is stop people from taking accurate shots at ships in the first couple of minutes of the game, and slightly hurt the economy of CVs, given they have boosted spotting damage income. It should also be noted much as someone from Wargaming has done on the Discord, that Warships Legends and Warships PC are two very different animals. The easiest difference is in team sizes, Legends is 9v9 max, where we have 12v12 max. From what I remember as well their maps are smaller, their commanders have different skills and basically none of them are for AA. Sure Lesta is doing it, Lesta also hasn't seemed to have made any smart balancing decisions since splitting from our Wargaming, meanwhile our Wargaming has been making good balance decision after good balance decision. Finally the "odd one out" would be the mobile port of Warships, because unless I'm mistaken they are still using RTS CVs, but they also have stupid consumables that can turn a lot of ships into literal machine guns, so what they do for game balance doesn't really apply to anyone other than themselves.
You are correct, there are so many problems with CVs that you are not going to solve many of them. But the example of the cyclone does illustrate perfectly how switching to minimap spotting does significantly reduce the game impact of the most OP class in the game. And it could have saved a large amount of development hours. They should have at least tried it instead of all this complicated things. And that is the point of this video. They should have tried it
@@rocketfishx3474 Thing is they did try it in closed testing, and found it didn't solve the issues the loudest players complain about so they went back to the drawing board. Also I call into question the "most OP class in the game" claim. If they were surely average win rate of the top 5% would back that up but it doesn't. According to Warships numbers(North America T10 top 5%), CVs have a single ship over a 74% win rate in top 5% that being Essex, the ship with the smallest pool of battles to draw upon. There is a single CV above 73% winrate, 3 72% and the rest are all under that. Battleships for example have 7 ships over a 74% win rate, 4 at 73%. Destroyers have 13 ships above 74%(or 12 if you count both Kleber as the same ship) 5 at 73% ignoring Shima AL. Cruisers have 7* above 74% and 7* above 73%. *Lot of new cruisers still under 30k battles so not fully accurate Subs don't even chart. So to put this into some context, 22.22% of CVs have above 73% win rate 42.3% BBs have above 73% win rate 62% of DDs have above 73% win rate 38.88% of Cruisers have above 73% win rate. Raw data would indicate if any ship class would be the most overpowered it would be destroyers. Data may vary by server, but I doubt it's by enough to change the results. Also sorry for nerding out, I like numbers and the fact we have resources like Warships Numbers is very nice for me. Not trying to attack you ether if this comes across this way. Just annoyed with the whole "CVs are the most overpowered" argument because the raw data doesn't back that up at all.
@Stephen__White It's a complicated issue. I would also disagree with your assertion that minimap spotting would only stop players from taking accurate shots in the first 2 minutes of the game And the CV economy could easily be adjusted
It is possible that WG is testing the mechanics on less popular platforms to gauge reactions and balance with the 2D minimap, and then deploying (or not) to the larger PC player base... But could be wrong...
Console is more of a arcade game play. Only nine ships and smaller maps. PC is more of a sim. Why they chose this is prolly cos the game was introduced on old gens. It is what it is.
cv spotting is ok becose this ! how do you want to destroy destroyers ? if they are faster then all ships in game so is not pasible spot them be range and submarines ou wew how can this be destroyed or spotted without help from cv planes ? I think this why this change isn't in pc game if ther nerfed cv spoting problem be replaced be unfair submarines and unstoppable destroyers like shima and others thas can be posted only be radars or other destroyers if they able stay longer than 5 minutes from start game so yea i see thing this jus end is just not possible nef cv without other problems
Honestly I feel like people are assuming to much about the proposed system and deciding its bad. It's WGs fault for not better explaining it but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know.
ok cv most of the time spotting is fine but submarines thas the problem hare spotting thas this submarines can do is so broken is one thing thas is it be remove from the game it be gama changing becose like thiis happent to me all tome i try to destroy the sub or run away but all the enemy team will see me lokaction becose submarie ner and if under water ther see me planes so im cent ever do somting to spot him foe 3 minutes ther can be under water ther can attack from much long renge so i cant damage them and the spoting jus broken why this thing not geting nerfed i jus cent play randomes with submanes nonstop spoting me and i cent damage or hit them ahh for me this submarines ar more worst then cv jus why no one talk about submaries spotting thas one thing thas force plates like me to complete stop play for days because it just unplayable to run or attack submarines if all enemies see me all time.
Plane loses should reduce the CV's health when all the planes are gone the CV is eliminated. To compensate increase the planes HP. Think about this how could a DD or CA sink a BB using guns, they couldn't but in game they do. A ship doesn't have to sink to be combat ineffective and out of the fight, DD's and CA's could render a BB combat ineffective by damaging systems. Once a CV is out of planes its combat ineffective not damaged/sunk but out of the fight. The ability for CV's in game to do damage without risk for me is the worst part of the game, even subs have to put themselves at risk to do damage.
If they made the changes exactly the way Legends made the changes you would still complain because now they're taking off faster and they can speed away faster there is no answer you will never be happy blah blah blah blah blah
This would be an idea if DD's spotted to begin with but all the DD's on my team sit back and island camp like they're cruisers then wait until the point is captured by the enemy, run in, die then blame me as the CV even though I've been giving them info all game.
0:05
Sea Lord accuses me (wows player) of having friends, immersion ruined
One of my favorite things to do as a BB is when the cyclones roll in, using the minimap to shoot ships beyond what I can see. It's so satisfying to absolutely dunk a another ship that can't see me. And I can't see it
Especially when you try it with german BB´s. 99% of the time its gonna be pure misery, but that 1% you will remember. I aimed at BB outside of my range and managed to hit three ships, killing two of them (both in one-shot level of HP), none of which was the BB i was aiming at.
"Its too complicated"......proceeds to make the most convoluted, complicated solution yet....
Its all coming to the EGO of a well know person in the WG, who is making everything in his power to prove that his way is right and ignoring the easiest fix to the problem he created.
Who would that be?
Pray, do tell who is this person…
I've not been paying attention for a while. Who's the asshole?
WG can't do it as it would mean admitting the community has been right for over 5 years and they just ignored us.
Plus removing spotting damage would nerf CVs snd they probably still have their artificial target of keeping CV play at least as "popular" as before the CV rework.
This ironically may be what causes them to cave as the current proposed changes will likely kill CVs.
Also one other important change on the console version they are implementing is that skip bombers must skip their bombs atleast once before they detonate, so that will prevent skip bombers from dropping their bombs directly on a destroyer and instantly deleting them
IMHO WG likes everything what makes matches take less time bc its less server time (cost) and also more consumables hopefully payed too. So they either let us experience CV spotting or bring more hybrids.
Anyway you don't see CVs currently in many matches or some modes have them off atm.
I played DD in ranked 6vs6 (MM was: 2BBs, 1 Alaska +3DDs on each side. But only enemy had 2x Kearsarge + Halford. We got no hybrid.The amount of getting spotted or simply that risk was so big, none of our ships made it to cap any of 3 center line caps during whole match).
If anyone has ever played the older game NavyField, spotting for your team was the primary function for CVs. Games were won by what team could out spotted the other. In real life, WW2 the primary function for the aircraft literally was recon, attacking was secondary. Except for Japan, they Kamikazed for days. Arguably thats probably one reason they lost the pacific war.
To be realistic, the pilot of the plane that spots an enemy ship would report its lat/long (i.e., to the mini-map) -- but about half the time would get either the location, the course, or the type of ship wrong. ;-) Then, about half the time the info from the pilots would take hours to get retransmitted to the other fleets in the area....
Sure, but this would be true of ship-to-ship communication as well.
CV minimap spotting makes sense purely for balance reasons
These changes may ironically kill CVs and may force them to just implement 2d spotting in this system when the CV numbers crater.
I think what WG should do is Minimap Spotting with some tweak AA enhancement.
This usually my idea when people asking me how do I change the AA defenses on Ships. Making all Dual Purpose Guns work as an AA when pressing O. This will make all Main and Secondaries convert to shoot down planes. Each barrel is their own flaks. Means for example, San Diego have 12 127 guns. = 12 additional Flaks. These add on flaks has larger radius than regular flaks. They are less accurate but each hit equals to the gun’s HE alpha damage. For example, if Mogami (155) have blast radius during flak mode of 0.5m. These guns does thr same damage as its HE damage on aircrafts. But, these flaks are inaccurate and requires half of it’s main gun reload time. Means, if a ship like Yamato shoots on AA mode. Her main Battery reload will be cut by half, fighting enemy aircrafts. But, Yamato is a special case, she shoot Type 3 Shells that does low flak damage 1/4 of HE damage, but it will affect every single of Aircraft squadrons. Means it can convert all aircrafts into Yellow Health.
This also means that Battleships will be better AA in general, due to its nature of having lots of secondaries. The secondaries will also being reworked. Now Secondaries will have equal range of any ships that have the same gun. Means if Yamato have 155mm. That 155 secondaries range will be as equal as Mogami. Bismarck 150 and 105 will have equal range of German Destroyers. 128 will have standard of 11km. The downside is that, All secondaries will now have reloading issue, as it will share the same reload rate as those ships that equip the same gun. Iowa Class will have 10Km Secondary range with Gearing’s Reload Rate. This is a buff for Bbs in general and make the enemy approch more interesting. But the downside of these buffs is that, Secondaries have even less health than before. AP can knock those out pretty easy. To combat this. Captain skills will be rework slightly by only decrease dispersion and the secondaries will also affected by Adrenaline Rush skills. The reload rate of Adrenaline Rush also affect Secondaries on AA mode too. Why I propose this secondaries change? Because let’s be real, secondaries on ships are quite uesless in most situations apart you are either German or Italian. What’s the purpose of US and IJN secondaries? So I decided to propose this idea so that secondaries doesn’t felt like a total useless and can be a personal BB self defense weapon, like what IT IS DESIGN TO DO. Sure, it’s crazy to have Yamato with 16km Secondary range, but I am not finished explained yet. Not all secondaries being treated equally. Means, those guns follows the same rules pf cruisers or destroyers. If you have secondaries that have 2 different caliber. It will have different ranges. For example. Yamato secondary range of 155 are 16km with 10 seconds of reload, while her 127mm share the same gun range as shimakaze with 5 seconds reload. Yes, this does affect other IJN BBs as well. Such as Amagi with 140mm guns. Have 12km ranges. While 127 only have 9+ km. Basically, those larger secondaries will hit you but it takes their time to kill you. But the closer you are the more dangerous it gets. Like how it should be against BBs. DDs need to adapt this fight by using island as advantages.
I agree but the range is abit too harsh for cv player
But i did agree with flak blast radius and 1 shell per barrel
Honestly, they could double the AA on every ship in the game and high tier carriers would still be able to work perfectly fine. It's always been bullshit that unless you have a minotaur next to you, 3 battleships with no damaged AA would just have to eat anything a Roosevelt sent at them.
Next you will have to buy spotting planes as a consumable in the armory. I don't play CV's as my injured hand can run them so miss some missions anyway. I will want clouds in game with windows in them to spot threw as a variable.
12:10 What was Yamato shooting at?
he prolly saw a bug in the water
2d mini with a hard spot consumable for sure .
I like the ides of a spotter plane for a long duration spot
First one minute was a "WTF is he on about?"
Imagine a fuel limit or 'ferry range' restriction for aircraft...Risk your hull by getting closer for more time/range or risk losing your squadron if you just fly around spotting everything for too long. I have said that is a solid fix for years, easy to implement and I think most players would see it as a fair change for both sides.
Dont worry CV spotting will be updated, WG just needs 10 more years to plan it out.
Coming from the title, i think it's because of the Musashi, partly. Think about it, the whole fighter spotting thing made the 899 div so OP, or just strong as hell. So people will be more willing to spend money to get or H
Gamble for Musashi, Graf Zeppelin, or a CV that has an Armored Flight Deck to avoid getting nuked 2 minutes into the match. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the reason.
Minimap spotting is already in the game. WoWS PC refusues to use it for plane only spotting and won't say why.
Meanwhile, we are supposed to trust the proposed changes will not break the game completely. This is right after the current season of Clan Battles broke the game on live in this patch. Twice.
CVs have no place but they don't want to remove them so Any NERF to CVs i take gladly.
They would need to remove the delay before the attacks, then.
No need. As the CV would still see their target.
Oh hey, wondered when you would cover this lmao
First thing I thought when they announced these changes was “Sea Lord is definitely gonna notice this” 😆
The few CVs i have are just there for port decoration these days. I only take them out during a snowflake event, and even then, only if i must.
Plane spotting should be limited to dedicated spotting planes.
In the instance of CVs. Spotting planes should fly out in a straight line to a targeted spot. Turn 90 degrees left or right. Fly 6km then return to CV.
Yeah I used to play PC and but PC broke and so started console WoWs and I saw this I laughed so hard cause I just know you were gonna make a video on it. On a side note CVs on Console practically perfect now only thing people complain about other than die heart haters of CVs is restoration time because most CVs can’t get deplaned anymore lol but that will probably be fixed
Any nerf to carriers will be good. Obviously WG will get it wrong. But the truth is that if they actually "balanced" carriers; no one would play them. Which would be great, but WG is dead set against it. I have no clue why.
If WG keeps making CV play more complicated they will just see a drop off in those few who still play them.
WowL is alright. But the moment you got the ships. You notice some of the ships consumable are few and missing. It is intentionally happen cus they "balance" and controller buttons are few. They dont want button bind them to use consumable.
Honest questing, why are you using a attack with the planes right after takeoff? they fixed the slingshot thing a long time ago right?
Doing that sends a squadron back to the carrier, which is done to preserve planes at the start of the game (when ships are more grouped up and AA mounts haven’t been destroyed yet)
plane retention
Mainly, to save planes from getting shot down, less planes in flight, more planes you can use
Its not surprising, WG doesnt have brainpower to actually make their "grandiose plans" work this decade. Were talking about the level of ineptitude that tried ti add simple mechanics (just slight dervivative of already existing ones) and still managed to introduce one of the worst bugs in modern PvP gaming.
under the new carrier rework destroyesr become invisible as it takes to long to set up the attacks on them and destroyers are the carriers main adversary.. It basically means that carriers have been nerfed so badly that they wont be worth playing anymore.
i wish there was a WOWs version with RTS CVs
They had to pull it because the consuls didn’t have the power to run the game like that and more of the issues was they didn’t have the numbers of buttons & controller ability to control/draw the RTS parts of the game
@@QALibraryplay blitz then
So they still have CVs?
Yea, we are getting our first Dutch ship with airstrike on Monday as well.
Considering it all. I'd like the ability to STILL be able to See enemy ships as a CV lover! But I'll totally allow it where. only the CV spots you. and the others only see your location.
Sure spotting will be gone...But at least the CV player can still farm damage, and at the best. intercept enemy ships in time. Unless the attacking planes causes the enemy to be fully detected for a short period of time. Then brief spotting damage.
As for fighters? Might as well turn all fighters into combat air patrol. So if you still insist on spotting. have those planes. as they can SPOT. but the spotting range is very poor. (Essex's fighter planes spotting range. which will only be used to spot DDs and subs. otherwise for pure defense against the enemy CV planes.)
German CVs and Support US CVs will be still going well. While the rest will become less useful.
It’s also important to point out that CVs on Legends were actually quite weak, they were nothing more than a gnat in your room, nothing will happen but it’s there
Unbelievable. Considering the actual code to do minimap spotting only already exists, why would they not use it. Especially considering the code base is absolutely fked beyond saving and ANY little change can introduce bugs of major proportion.
to be honest im waiting with the popcorn when they give those CV spotting changes for a test to the public and the bugs we will find.
If I had to guess maybe they are afraid of messing with 2D minimap spotting because they are tied to both cyclone mechanics and radar? And they don't want to break those? Thinking about it, couldn't they just make the planes reference the radar mechanic for spotting? You know make it 2D spotting and if the planes stay spotting for around 5 seconds or more it becomes 3D spotting?
I thought we already had this?
How many CV haters have actually play a reasonable amount of CVs?
As a CV enjoyer, allow me to give some insight as to how they _actually_ work.
_Most_ ships are able to shoot down 2-3 planes during an attack run. So, if you have three runs in a squadron, you use one, lose one, and have one remaining. *Those 2-3 planes add up over time.*
Yes, we can place fighters to do spotting, but you have to balance out being able to actually spot ships with them being able to shoot back. Put them too close, there go your planes. Too far away, there go you targets. (Plus some players will go out of their way to shoot down spotters.)
If you're actually doing your job, you'll (at least try to) spot for all 3 flanks. If you're on the right flank, and need to help the left, that takes a few minutes. Yes, planes are faster than destroyers (shocking I know,) but traveling that far is _painfully_ slow. Especially if you're trying to save your teammate from the enemy CV.
As for actual attacking, *nobody* talks about bombers having mis-assist.
Far too many times, I've had a ship _wider than the reticle_ just get ignored by bombs. You can make your bombers wait for the very last second, minimum size reticle and _STILL_ miss a Yamato or Preussen. *That's a wheelbarrow of bullcrap.*
Play 300 rounds as a carrier (or a sub,) and actually learn how they operate.
CV (and sub) haters hate them because of their very nature. They're good at spotting, and not being in danger.
Lesta went back on 2D map spotting amigo, it wasn't implemented and their working on more sweeping changes. Legends did it as a suite of massive changes, not as a stand alone thing. Mini map only spotting has severe issues, namely that CV's will functionally be unable to defend themselves in the event of DD rushes even if they do spot them coming right at them as long as the DD doesn't stupidly fire his guns. Additionally a lot of DD's are currently balanced around CV's menacing them and I expect torpedo DD's to go absolutely crazy in the absolute absence of CV spotting, especially the pan asian DD's. Finally, CV damage is going to explode as good CV players stop engaging in team play and simply farm out BB's since the game no longer wants/allows them to be useful in that manner, and since all CV's will bring is damage, it'll actually be justified.
About DDs being more powerful, you're wrong. How do we do when there are no CVs in the game then??? Crazy, i know. If anything that will be a light cruisers buff.
@@solidtoto My most played ship is Shimakaze, in the presence of a CV, I'm severely handicapped, when a CV isn't in play it's a massive advantage. If I play it right, even if a cruiser has positioned himself for an ambush, he still won't be able to make a play since I can have battleship support thanks to my spotting.
Also, we did have an era with minimal CV interference, back in the RTS CV days, guess what, BB players complained DD's were disgustingly overpowered. We've seen massive power creep since then, but DD's have been held down by CV's so it's been hard to feel.
@@Notalent1337 Wow someone else able to remember the RTS CV days, and how powerful DDs were/felt back then!? I was starting to think I was the only one.
Let's not also forget that back during RTS CVs, we only had a couple of gunboat DDs with bad concealment, now we have a shit load more, and the chances of your team spawning with a gunboat vs a fast stealthy torp boat is VERY high. Without CVs to pick up the slack spotting, you basically lose if the stealthy DD is half decent at the game.
When CV spotting is removed, DDs are going to be the make or break point for teams, and it's going to be extremely painful for everyone else.
I actually remember being excited when the CV change happened that I could play a class that actually countered DDs. Then Wargaming nerfed the shit out of CVs ability to directly attack DDs, leaving them no option but to keep them spotted and pray, now they are taking away that option as well.
@@Stephen__White You can still attack DDs. But the one nerf where attack planes can't fire missile right away will make them miss more often against DDs unless you time the attack correctly.
Bombers that are HE will have a better chance of hitting DDs. But yes. DDs are fast. More so with French DDs. God too bloody fast!
@@dominquedoty458 Yeah I know, I play Brit CVs just so I can still fairly easily dunk on DDs, can't do a huge amount to much else, but those carpet bombs can make fairly quick work of a DD.
And German CV rockets are still really easy to hit DDs with, they just don't deal the most damage.
Let’s talk about WoW Blitz… who still uses RTS gameplay for CVs where you can have up to 7 flights of aircraft at once still, can spot with them, and absolutely wreck the enemy team.
I cant play gun boats anymore with the old way of spotting, it isn't any fun being perma spotted without being able to pop smoke.
Cv spotting is the only thing that stops destroyers from ruining the game. When this changes all your going to see is dds in the game.
Then you will see more light and radar cruisers to kill said Destroyers. Nothing can kill a CV.
Take away spotting, give more fuel. Take away damage but give more attacks.so basically changing nothing. If I can do 100 damage 1 time or 1 damage 100 times, nothing changes.
They're just still trying to figure out how to introduce a stun mechanic. That's where my money is at lol.
Shot blitz still has rts carriers
These CV's nerfs are our of hand, it's ok that they buffed the AA damage to some ships, but the carriers are very weak and they only rely on a plan.
I am a CV player. All they should do if copy WOWS Legends with 2D map spotting.
When i saw the update for legends, me - WHYYYYYY WG YYYYYY
My question is: What does WG have against us the PC player base? It´s because of us that have spent so much money on the game that they are what they are today!! I hate how they always find a way to ignore what we have ask for to make the game better. Then they wonder why so many former hard core full time players are now casual part time players.
WG will never implement minimap spotting because that would mean they acknowledge the "vocal minority" knows more about the game than them.
They don't want to give the community more strength to pushback on their bad ideas.
because Lesta does things well and WG has to make everything so stupid convoluted to "solve" and issue.
The CV changes coming to wows pc sound interesting tho, much more interesting than 2d mini map spotting. To me it does not sound like the attack mode for spotting will we the attack mode where you aim your shots, i think the spotting mode will the same thing as the what planes are currently, can spot, but can also be shot down. I think the travel mode is the new thing, where planes are high up in the sky, and can't spot, but probably travel faster and can't be shot down.
The problem is exactly that, we don't know, they haven't given any specifics so we are only able to speculate and what little information they gave doesn't answer anything of how much it's gonna affect CVs and AA, is it gonna make AA more useless? Or is gonna make CVs useless?
Also in high altitude mode the planes can still be spotted by ships and shot down if the ships use the Defensive AA consumable.
They probably haven't done it yet because CV spotting damage missions are in the Wisconsin dockyard. Maybe after?
This has been discussed for years. So this isn't exactly valid. The issue is probably someone who refuses to admit they're wrong.
Did I just eat my words *Console having something better than pc!?*
Mind you the console version REALLY let me down.
In my Flamu voice *"WHAAAAT!?"*
not supporting WG in NOT doing what you said, but for the "hard to code" it can be true, the game and it engine are "old", it is possible that most if not all of the one who coded the game at first aren't working thre anymore so the newer dev don't know how to sort the code on pc ( explaining all tyhose bugs). but if they can just do like in storm that would be enough. another point could be it would nerf the CV spotting dmg ( a mechanic so bad that you never know why you get spotting dmg or not)
WG's pc team obviously lacks the skill to change cv spotting. As an example of the skill level to team pc. Any change they've made in years that end up crapping on the game. (zero health invincible gaming)
This change on console is really going to hinder team gameplay. Its basically a buff for destroyers in essence. Turning CVs into just damage farming for themselves cause no one else can shoot at what they spot. Whiny ass DD players just want to be able to torp spam.
just bring back rts-cv with more balance in damage and earning for providing aa cover(but without stupid fighter-only setaps), also you can use after-2019 cv gameplay for a new line of escort cv while large strike one can have a god damn normal cv gameplay with 7-8 plane groups instead of this autistic solo-group gameplay
The thing is all making CV spotting minimap only doesn't solve many of the issues people have with CVs. All it does is isolate CVs into their own little bubble.
A CV can still go and find that flanking DD and tell their team where he is, effectively "ruining" the game for that DD player.
A CV can still attack the same isolated target, again, and again, and again until it's dead no problem.
A CV can still attack island hugging cruisers that wouldn't be able to be attacked or spotted otherwise.
A CV will still deal the exact same damage they deal now.
Minimap only spotting also still tells your team what ship is where. All it does is stop people from taking accurate shots at ships in the first couple of minutes of the game, and slightly hurt the economy of CVs, given they have boosted spotting damage income.
It should also be noted much as someone from Wargaming has done on the Discord, that Warships Legends and Warships PC are two very different animals. The easiest difference is in team sizes, Legends is 9v9 max, where we have 12v12 max. From what I remember as well their maps are smaller, their commanders have different skills and basically none of them are for AA.
Sure Lesta is doing it, Lesta also hasn't seemed to have made any smart balancing decisions since splitting from our Wargaming, meanwhile our Wargaming has been making good balance decision after good balance decision.
Finally the "odd one out" would be the mobile port of Warships, because unless I'm mistaken they are still using RTS CVs, but they also have stupid consumables that can turn a lot of ships into literal machine guns, so what they do for game balance doesn't really apply to anyone other than themselves.
You are correct, there are so many problems with CVs that you are not going to solve many of them. But the example of the cyclone does illustrate perfectly how switching to minimap spotting does significantly reduce the game impact of the most OP class in the game. And it could have saved a large amount of development hours. They should have at least tried it instead of all this complicated things. And that is the point of this video. They should have tried it
@@rocketfishx3474 Thing is they did try it in closed testing, and found it didn't solve the issues the loudest players complain about so they went back to the drawing board.
Also I call into question the "most OP class in the game" claim. If they were surely average win rate of the top 5% would back that up but it doesn't.
According to Warships numbers(North America T10 top 5%), CVs have a single ship over a 74% win rate in top 5% that being Essex, the ship with the smallest pool of battles to draw upon. There is a single CV above 73% winrate, 3 72% and the rest are all under that.
Battleships for example have 7 ships over a 74% win rate, 4 at 73%.
Destroyers have 13 ships above 74%(or 12 if you count both Kleber as the same ship) 5 at 73% ignoring Shima AL.
Cruisers have 7* above 74% and 7* above 73%.
*Lot of new cruisers still under 30k battles so not fully accurate
Subs don't even chart.
So to put this into some context,
22.22% of CVs have above 73% win rate
42.3% BBs have above 73% win rate
62% of DDs have above 73% win rate
38.88% of Cruisers have above 73% win rate.
Raw data would indicate if any ship class would be the most overpowered it would be destroyers. Data may vary by server, but I doubt it's by enough to change the results.
Also sorry for nerding out, I like numbers and the fact we have resources like Warships Numbers is very nice for me. Not trying to attack you ether if this comes across this way. Just annoyed with the whole "CVs are the most overpowered" argument because the raw data doesn't back that up at all.
@Stephen__White It's a complicated issue. I would also disagree with your assertion that minimap spotting would only stop players from taking accurate shots in the first 2 minutes of the game
And the CV economy could easily be adjusted
@Stephen__White And sure perhaps in closed testing it did not solve all the issues. As I said there are too many issues with CVs to solve them all.
@@Stephen__White ruclips.net/video/GPkAiapYHg4/видео.htmlsi=wqgE10dx1wkKHLTc
It is possible that WG is testing the mechanics on less popular platforms to gauge reactions and balance with the 2D minimap, and then deploying (or not) to the larger PC player base... But could be wrong...
WoWs Legends is developed by WG, why are they doing different changes for different versions of the game? Do they just hate PC players?
Console is more of a arcade game play. Only nine ships and smaller maps. PC is more of a sim. Why they chose this is prolly cos the game was introduced on old gens. It is what it is.
Hello early viewers :)
Simple warships + C.V. + Subs = BAD!! warships - Subs - CV = good!
cv spotting is ok becose this ! how do you want to destroy destroyers ? if they are faster then all ships in game so is not pasible spot them be range and submarines ou wew how can this be destroyed or spotted without help from cv planes ? I think this why this change isn't in pc game if ther nerfed cv spoting problem be replaced be unfair submarines and unstoppable destroyers like shima and others thas can be posted only be radars or other destroyers if they able stay longer than 5 minutes from start game so yea i see thing this jus end is just not possible nef cv without other problems
hello
Detest cvs . . . .
i cant hear that lame excuse "we put already so much work in to it , everybody hates it but we implement it anyway" .... everytime the same bullshit
Honestly I feel like people are assuming to much about the proposed system and deciding its bad.
It's WGs fault for not better explaining it but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know.
ok cv most of the time spotting is fine but submarines thas the problem hare spotting thas this submarines can do is so broken is one thing thas is it be remove from the game it be gama changing becose like thiis happent to me all tome i try to destroy the sub or run away but all the enemy team will see me lokaction becose submarie ner and if under water ther see me planes so im cent ever do somting to spot him foe 3 minutes ther can be under water ther can attack from much long renge so i cant damage them and the spoting jus broken why this thing not geting nerfed i jus cent play randomes with submanes nonstop spoting me and i cent damage or hit them ahh for me this submarines ar more worst then cv jus why no one talk about submaries spotting thas one thing thas force plates like me to complete stop play for days because it just unplayable to run or attack submarines if all enemies see me all time.
so CVs are going to be useless
Plane loses should reduce the CV's health when all the planes are gone the CV is eliminated. To compensate increase the planes HP. Think about this how could a DD or CA sink a BB using guns, they couldn't but in game they do. A ship doesn't have to sink to be combat ineffective and out of the fight, DD's and CA's could render a BB combat ineffective by damaging systems. Once a CV is out of planes its combat ineffective not damaged/sunk but out of the fight. The ability for CV's in game to do damage without risk for me is the worst part of the game, even subs have to put themselves at risk to do damage.
If they made the changes exactly the way Legends made the changes you would still complain because now they're taking off faster and they can speed away faster there is no answer you will never be happy blah blah blah blah blah
I believe dds is the cancer of the game since they decide 100% the outcome of the attle. Solution remove dd spoting leave them spot for themselves.
Yea, remove the main use of the role lmao
Gr8 b8
CV or DD spotting?
@@janboen3630 i mean dd spoting
This would be an idea if DD's spotted to begin with but all the DD's on my team sit back and island camp like they're cruisers then wait until the point is captured by the enemy, run in, die then blame me as the CV even though I've been giving them info all game.