I worked in the military industry for decades. Even if Italians always speak bad about themselves, Italy product top-notch weapon platforms. Often much better than other countries and US itself.
It's a cultural thing to talk badly about yourself, but don't take it as true humility. Italians have learned over the millennia of invasions that it is always better to appear worse than you are.
and we (beside rome empire) always lost every attempt to colonies. If wasnìt for germans WWII would have finished 2 month. Now it's different, we actually developing exstaordinary technologies but for example we dont have nucler propelled ships... we have a small army but extremely versatile.
I am an Italian, and perhaps the fact that my country has many different cultures that compete with each other makes competition an additional factor, we speak badly of us because we are an amalgam of republics, monarchies, city states etc etc The secret lies in the history of Italy, we are in competition with ourselves, which is why we sometimes create excellence.
the problem is we got many great ideas that since our budged (the budget that the government decides to give to the army,air force and navy) is very cheap can never use... like we had many occasions we could use a lot more aircrafts or arm them better, but no... always gotta stay cheap because the government is scared of army that does army things...
The Italian army is demonstrating its willingness to upgrade heavily. Many new vehicles such as AW249, KF51 Panther, Lynx, Tempest, ships and much more. It will be interesting to continue watching his growth.
@@alex-lm9wy No man, plans have changed recently. KNDS did not accept Leonardo proposals. Now Leonard has allied itself with Rheinmetall and Italy will purchase the KF51 Panther and the KF41 Lynx as well as updating the C1 Ariete.
@@alex-lm9wy Yes, KDNS didn't accept to produce parts of the tank in Italy by Leonardo. Rhinmetall otherwise accepted the deal and so Panther KF1 will be produced also in Italy. Meaning secondary boost to italian military economy and top tier tank manufacturing skills will be acquired. Also Italy is aiming to get into MCGS program. All this in less than a month. I made a lot money by trading Leonardo stocks, buy KDNS fail into sell today ;D
The AW 249 carries more payload, has reduced radar cross-section, has far bigger range and is designed to cooperate with drones to minimize its exposure on the battlefield. But obviously hasn't been used in a real conflict yet, since it is still in test phase. That's why I'd use the AH64 for the next 5 years and THEN switch... Of course Italy got the Mangusta too, even if it covers a slightly different role (light attack instead of heavy). So we can actually wait a bit and have this new marvel flying with our colours.
@@alessandrobravi6212 Still waiting for you to produce a helicopter that actually works instead of a demonstration helicopter. Ridiculous deluded peasant nonsense.
The AW249 is what a Hughes designer would have drawn if asked "what would you have done differently" 40 years later. Same concept, similar weight, similar role, similar payload, different execution. BTW, Leonardo both designed and maintained the Aw129 for 35 years and also provides assembly, modifications and maintainable for the AH64 in service with the UK Army
The concept isn't the same, nor the heli weight (the AW249 is way lighter), the paylod also isn't the same (the AW249 can carry the double in weight than the Apache, speaking about weapons) you are confusing "max weight at payload" with "MTOW" two different things. Actually Leonardo build the AH64 for UK, not only provides spare parts.
First of all, we must ask ourselves what sense an attack helicopter has today if we take into consideration the modern defense systems of combat tanks and transportable anti-aircraft systems, from this point of view all attack helicopters have become practically unusable. What makes the AW249 innovative and sensible are the highly advanced electronic avionics systems inserted into the helicopter produced by Leonardo, which transform it into a heliotransported command center capable of remotely controlling the drones it carries on board and carrying out the functions of intercepting enemy defense systems. By framing the two aircraft from this perspective, we understand how much better the AW249 is. And no, the concept isn't absolutely the same
@@s1lv3rr the concept is obviously the same between the apache an dthe AW-249, which is not a bad thing: a conventional helicopter, with 2 pilots in tandem, tail rotor, non retractable landing gear, wing mounted weapon systems. Engine power don't tell much, as the Apache is currently testing the new GE9 serie which are on the same ballpark ot the GE7 on the Aw249. As I said above, the AW249 is what Huges Engineers would have drawn If asked to build the same AH64 machine, but with 40 years of technical advancements, meaning a fly by wire software system, which greatly reduce the heavy, vulnerable and space wasting hydraulics on the fuselage. Much more integration and miniaturization in the on board systems has also been applied. A new tank is not much different form an older one from the outside: it is just much easier to set all the system you want instead of bolting them wherever an empty space can be found, but you don't mess very much with the typical layout of a hull, a turret, a gun, an engine in the back and 2 tracks. This is even more true for a flying machine. The AH64E is also a distant relative to the AH64A, when it comes to capabilities and cockpit layout, but the limits of the cell are showing anyway. The Leonardo helicopter is obviously lighter, as it integrates many composite in it's construction, the Range is improved, with more modern engines and so the payload. Drones and AI are new concept but both the Helicopters could use them: it is just much more convenient to do that on the newer machines which much less compromises, especially when it comes to software integration to a shared battlefield control system. Loitering ammunitions like the Switchblade and the VSHORAD will also greatly improve the potential of the machine. What I'd call a "different" concept would be a hybrid helicopter, may be with a pushing propeller like an Cheyenne, a ducted fan tail control, a convertiplane, or a dual rotor system like a Husky or an Alligator. May be a stealth system, like the FARA or the Older (and may be better) Comanche, with an internal bay for the payload (FARA). A proven simple and very robust layout, is preferable anyway as unnecessary complexity is what kills the programs nowadays. A tested cell, easy to repair, resilient to damages and cheaper to build is a good things per se if it didn't showed limits until now.. The gear train of the AW149 will also greatly improve logistics and ease of training for the ground crew, which is also very important, when a war machine is deployed near the frontline.
@@Leptospirosi You are telling me that "the concept" is the same because both helicopters are equipped with a vertical-axis propeller, a rear rotor and are two-seaters. So, according to you, all airplanes are the same because they are equipped with a fixed wing and a tail rudder.
The economy of Italy is a highly developed social market economy.[30] It is the third-largest national economy in the European Union, the second-largest manufacturing industry in Europe (7th-largest in the world),[31] the 9th-largest economy in the world by nominal GDP, and the 12th-largest by GDP (PPP). Italy is a founding member of the European Union, the Eurozone, the OECD, the G7 and the G20;[32] it is the eighth-largest exporter in the world, with $611 billion exported in 2021. Its closest trade ties are with the other countries of the European Union, with whom it conducts about 59% of its total trade. The largest trading partners, in order of market share in exports, are Germany (12.5%), France (10.3%), the United States (9%), Spain (5.2%), the United Kingdom (5.2%) and Switzerland (4.6%).[33] In the post-World War II period, Italy saw a transformation from an agricultural-based economy which had been severely affected by the consequences of the World Wars, into one of the world's most advanced nations,[34] and a leading country in world trade and exports. According to the Human Development Index, the country enjoys a very high standard of living. According to The Economist, Italy has the world's 8th highest quality of life.[35] Italy owns the world's third-largest gold reserve,[36] and is the third-largest net contributor to the budget of the European Union. Furthermore, the advanced country private wealth is one of the largest in the world.[37] In terms of private wealth, Italy ranks second, after Hong Kong, in private wealth to GDP ratio. Among OECD members, Italy has a highly efficient and strong social security system, which comprises roughly 24.4% of GDP.[5][38][4] Italy is the world's seventh-largest manufacturing country,[39] characterised by a smaller number of global multinational corporations than other economies of comparable size and many dynamic small and medium-sized enterprises, notoriously clustered in several industrial districts, which are the backbone of the Italian industry. Italy is a large manufacturer[40] and exporter[41] of a significant variety of products. Its products include machinery, vehicles, pharmaceuticals, furniture, food and clothing.[42] Italy has a significant trade surplus. The country is also well known for its influential and innovative business economic sector, an industrious and competitive agricultural sector (Italy is the world's largest wine producer),[43] and manufacturers of creatively designed, high-quality products: including automobiles, ships, home appliances, and designer clothing. Italy is the largest hub for luxury goods in Europe and the third luxury hub globally.[44][45] Italy has a strong cooperative sector, with the largest share of the population (4.5%) employed by a cooperative in the EU.[46]
Ma che cazzate stai dicendo???? ma ti rendi conto delle assurdità che dici??? l'Italia in termini economici è davanti solo alla Grecia nel campo europeo, i greci sono 14 milioni di abitanti tra l'altro, l'Italia ne ha più di 60 milioni. Al livello internazionale siamo spazzatura, altro che la settimana economica, forse sei rimasto agli anni 80!!!
The AW249 is a superior machine, a more modern concept, but the real question is how many - or how few - of them the Italian Army will procure. Italy will not prioritize its ground army, it will always prioritize its navvy and air force, and leave a smaller budget for the army. We all know this helicopter is going to be too expensive and therefore it will only be bought in a small number.
it's best shot would be to export it, Leonardo is good at that but you are probably right, I know that Piaggio was developing drones years ago which would have been good but as usual there were too few orders for the project to make much sense
Other than range, what's superior about it ? To me it just appears to be an "Apache-Light" which prioritizes range and operational running costs over firepower and protection.
The MTOW can mislead people thinking that the Apache can carry more weapons at payload, but that's false. The MTOW include the whole weight so heli weight, fuel, weapons. Actualky the Apache can carry as weapon at Paylod at max 1995 kilos, where thr AW249 can carry 2.800 kilos. You will ask "how could be possible that the Apache can carry less weapon weight if it have an higher MTOW?" The answer it's simple, the Apache, unloaded, weight more than the AW249 that have fly by wire controllers so an huge weight reduction. Apache does not have fly by wire.
I’m not sure where you’re getting these numbers for max payload but for the Apache you’re incorrect. And the Apache does have a fly by wire flight control system, it’s called BUCS. But it’s a back up control system, not primary
@@ah64longbow The one that is incorrect it's you and by miles. The data are the official ones of both the helis. The AH64D in his Block II upgrade can carry at payload from 3.400 to 4.400 lbs (so in kilos at max 1.995 kilos), the AW 249 can carry 6.172 lbs (2.800 kilos). And nope, the Apache WILL HAVE fly by wire in the future Block III upgrade (AH64E Guardian), but it doesn't have it now. Plus, a Block III Apache, so his last development phase, will be almost on pair, but not in everything, with the AW249 that is at his first projectual phase. It's all to say.
@@solinvictus1234 pretty wild that you’re so confident in what you’re saying but you’re just spreading completely false information lol. First of all, I fly the D models and my unit has D models that were built in 2005 all the way to 2010. Guess what, they all have BUCS, which is a fly by wire system. Secondly, the AH64E is not a future upgrade, that thing has been out for a decade. You need to do some research
La italiana Agusta produce elicotteri dal 1952....Nel tempo si è specializzata nella costruzione/progettazione di elicotteri da trasporto civile , da guerra, da soccorso .
Apache is a useless piece of history in modern battlefield. Aw249 avionics make him some sort of mobile command and control center to command drones and delivering guidance to strike enemy targets. It's like comparing 64 bit graphics games with 4k cinematic animations. Despite this, if we ignore the superior avionics and just focus on attack power, AW249 carry more payload (nearly double), has more range, and a short radar section.
@@azjumbo Azzo c'entra?? perche' se e' globalizzato non possono comprare da altri?? Ma a voi anti italiani vi fanno tutti in serie con un quoziente bassino?
@@azjumbo La parte tecnologica a dire il vero non ci e' mai mancata, a noi sono sempre mancati i soldi per progettare e produrre mezzi di livello, lo stesso ariete motore ridotto non abbastanza potente e corazzatura inferiore alla media perche' altrimenti il motore non bastava, si va a risparmio.
Many of you perhaps don't know that Italy has won two official supplies for the US army: 80 CJ 27 aircraft and the supply for the next 10 years of engines for American surface-to-air, air-to-surface and ballistic missiles.
The biggest problem of the Leonardo AW249 is the market. As far as I know NO ONE in Europe (except Italy) is ordering this with other European countries developing national solutions.
Cause it's still a pre-production Prototype. It was officially presented less than one month ago at Eurosatory. You can't acquire an heli that still didn't started a production line. It will sell a lot.
@@JohnSmith-rw8uh Turkey is developing the atak2 that is no more and no less an upgraded version of the atak, or to well say the lightweight A129 Mangusta.
I'm italian and i call bullshit, the French and the English are actually using their armies and their armaments are comparable, basically they are more ready
Airbus' Tiger helicopters are a complete failure. Germany withdrew them all. The Tigers are only good for the French who surrender without a fight and become collaborators
Something funny is going on here? the 249 is more streamlined and has more power and five blades but lifts less and is slower? none of this makes any sense, is someone messing with the numbers?
MTOW indicates the weight of the helicopter overall, not just the weapons. in reality the AW249, weighing less, can carry equal or heavier armaments. on speed for now it seems slightly slower but has a much greater range of action.
The 249 can carry a higher payload than the Apache. Your messing numbers of Payload Weight and MTOW - maximum take off weight: as the apache is way heavier than the 249, in the end the weight of it's payload is inferior to the 249 because the Apache frame is way heavier. It's like a 2 tons of payload on the Apache and almost 3 tons of payload on the Leonardo' s Attack Chopper. Just do the math, knowing the concepts you're using. Cheers
It doesn't lift less, but almost the double more than the Apache, speaking of weapons at the payload. And since the AW249 is way lighter than the Apache (fly by wire and other new integrated tech) i think that, if the data about max cruiser speed and max speed are correct, the engine was tweaked in torque power and rpm to have an advantage on the MTOW and not on speed. Considering also that the maximum operative range is the double of the Apache, as the hours it can remain operative in the sky.
It's not as if the first version of the Apache flew 40 years ago… Apart from that, the current version of the Apache has nothing to do with the original in terms of avionics, more modern materials and integrated systems in general.
technical data does not show fighting capabilities - just look at russian KF51 - in Ukraine proved to be very vulnerable even that Ukrainians did not have best air defence. Would be interesting to see Apache fighting in Ukraine - the real test
Un altro che non ha capito un cazzo della vita. Ti auguro di averci a che fare davvero, poi ti accorgerai che ti trattano come un cameriere, se ti va bene. Questo è il frutto di ottant'anni di colonialismo, ricordati che ci hanno conquistato, non liberato.
Al di là delle caratteristiche del Fenice, se Leonardo voleva realizzare un concorrente per il mercato estero all'Apache, credo abbia fatto i conti con eccessivo ottimismo. l'Apache, non solo gode di una solida catena produttiva e di esperienza operativa ma ha alle spalle la lobby americana della Boeing. Non so se mi spiego...
Si ma anche gli americani stessi non si affidano solo all'apache visto che parallelamente hanno investito per 40 anni nell'ammodernamento del AH1 arrivato alla versione Z , il Viper, per il supporto aereo ravvicinato ad ala rotante del corpo dei marines. L'AH 64 è un aereo d'attacco anticarro, quello fa benissimo, nel ruolo di supporto alla fanteria è invece così deficitario che l'esercito piuttosto chiede sistemicamente all'usaf la disponibilità dell'A10. In Afghanistan e Iraq l'AH64 ha mostrato i limiti di una piattaforma nata per ingaggiare mezzi corazzati, ma pessima a ingaggiare tutto il resto. Il mangusta prima e il phoenix dopo hanno un'altra logica, e quindi il paragone è sbagliato. Come è sbagliato paragonare un Abrams con un Bradley, perché non è che perché sono cingolati e hanno la torretta sono "più o meno la stessa cosa" come non paragoni un centauro e uno stryker, la Cavour e la Reagan, un Typhoon e un F35 etc. Si assomigliano esteticamente perché ormai si è imposto quel tipo di disposizione in abitacolo, copiato anche dal pessimo eurocopter tiger, dal mil mi 28, e dal wz10 cinese, e che era stato adottato dalle versioni più recenti del mil mi 24 (che per la cronaca è un elicottero d'assalto e non da attacco). In definitiva sono come angurie e meloni, saranno pure simili ma fanno cose diverse...
@@matteoferrarizanolini6724 Non condivido la sua valutazione sull'Apache ma anche ammettendo che le cose stanno come dice lei, il discorso non cambia. Il rivale del Fenice sarebbe il Viper, sempre un elicottero USA ben consolidato come esperienza operativa
Not that Cobra or Apache sounds Epic too. But the Italian helo Rgt.s names are pretty Epic. 3rd Rgt. for Special Operation "Aldebaran" and 5th Rgt. AVES "Rigel"
@@UTJK. There's a lot of fantasy also in the Italian names, but you don't know about that. The Mangusta "Mongoose" was named in that way cause it was the market contender of the Cobra, so they called that heli with the natural enemy of the Cobra, Mongoose. Fenice "Phoenix" cause it arise the helicopters from the ashes, giving it another new battle tactical role to helis that before the advent of this heli was becoming useless with new drones advent, as a drone mothership (cause is what it is in reality).
I can only add that the Italians have missed the mark with the design this time. All Italian helicopters are beautiful and always make you admire them, but not this time. Probably the designers were underpaid) The helicopter turned out to be ugly compared to its predecessor, the A129 Mangusta, which I consider the most beautiful combat helicopter in the Western countries, along with the Turkish version of the T129 and the European Tiger. But this does not diminish its progress in all characteristics compared to the A129. I just look at it without much admiration for its appearance.
The Apache is superior because its battle tested and proven its capabilities. However, the AWS has newer technologies. Until it is battle tested, the Apache is superior. Look at the Russian equipment in Ukraine that was supposed to be superior and has failed countless times. Things look good on paper until shit hits the fan.
Comunque, tranne la superiore velocita di Leonardo le altre differenze sono minime. Tutto poi dipende dall'abilità di chi lo conduce nei combattimenti.
Airbus' Tiger helicopters are a complete failure. Germany withdrew them all. The Tigers are only good for the French who surrender without a fight and become collaborators
@@geppettogeppetto6236 se avessi un minimo di dignità lo riconosceresti, ignorante. Era proprio per non tradire la Patria che queste merde devono levare le loro basi ad endarsene.
Good helicopter the Italian, but remember that the engine is made in USA or UK. From a point of view it would be uneconomical to develop an engine from scratch. Which is what the Turks are doing for other reasons. Turks who are not in the got of engine manufacturers and reliability is needed in many components. (they have tried everywhere, and part of the know-how is for the licensed production of engines (not the latest) of the F16. After the armaments at the missile level they are always coming from other nations. Good helicopter the Italian, but remember that the engine is made in USA or UK. From a point of view it would be uneconomical to develop an engine from scratch. Which is what the Turks are doing for other reasons. Turks who are not in the got of engine manufacturers and reliability is needed in many components. (they have tried everywhere, and part of the know-how is for the licensed production of engines (not the latest) of the F16. After the armaments at the missile level they are always coming from other nations.
good engineer, when he designs something, if a component is already available, it costs less to buy it directly than to redesign everything every time. Even in your vehicles, somewhere there are Italian components.
@@BurninVinyl Leonardo bought the Polish PZL-Świdnik factory. agusta was an italian factory westland was english and they cooperated for years together until finmeccanica today leonardo bought that too. a letter of intent was signed with Poland to buy it and therefore expand the market, but the helicopter was developed in ITALY. nothing Polish about this helicopter!
@@BurninVinyl In July 2018, Leonardo and Polish Armaments Group signed a letter of intent regarding cooperation on a bid to supply the AW249 to fulfill the Polish combat helicopter program Kruk and mooted the use of its subsidiary PZL- Świdnik to locally produce elements of the rotorcraft. a little to think that this is also a Polish helicopter, but you are free to feel proud of this Italian helicopter.
@@GRRMichigan same factory, same crap. Or is it difficult to see the logic that if a company builds crap trains & helicopters , yes they are crap too can't build anything with quality?
@@SkinPeeleR u speak bullshit dude. Really, otherwise make your own trains in Holland, if you are capable, otherwise shut up please ,,, I live in Finland, Helsinki, all the trains are Italians, Pendolino and Allegro. They work magnificently, good design and nobody complains, always working in Finnish tough winters. Start developing ur own Dutch industry or just mind ur own trading business country.
The Leonardo AW249 is pure garbage, just like its predecessor the AW129… that’s why they never sold any of that Italian junk… whereas the Apache has sold more than 5000 units 😂😂😂
You can ask at spanish army regiment in Afganistan... when they been litterally saved from 1 "old and rubbish A129 mangusta..." usa try to saved spanish before italian intervention.. but failed miserable.... last but not least... mangusta cost a fraction of apache approximately 1 apache cost like 4 mangusta
So what? The US Navy use Italian FREMM Frigates. The US Predator and Reaper drones use Leonardo EWS (Electronic Warfare System). The US Coast Guard use the Italian Agusta Westland helis. What's your point exactely, kiddo?
@@solinvictus1234 - That this piece of Italian AW249 junk uses American-made GE engines 😂😂😂 and yes, it’s a piece of junk… that’s why nobody buys it… just in case you didn’t get it the first time 🤣🤣🤣
@@ianrichards909 If this is a piece of junk the Apache is a paper heli. Plus nobody is buying it cause it have to be still launched on the market. It was showed a week ago at Eurosatory. Smart4ss child like you should shut their mouth if they din't know what are they talking about. And by the way, learn how to build proper ships, cause you ended up buying Italian Frigates, smart4ss.
We're satellites of the US. The enemies of the USA are automatically our enemies. And even our allies turn against us. Turkey for example. Russians want to build a naval base in Lybia. It's dramatically close to Italy. We need updated weaponry
É baseado no AW149 e A129 Mangusta. Além disso, Leonardo construiu Apaches para o exército do Reino Unido. Se você não sabe do que está falando, cale a boca.
We Italians are really good at war helicopters, in Europe we have no rivals, the Germans are good at tank helicopters, the French are good at baguettes carried under the arm and that stink from the armpit when you eat them
Two completely different concepts...Apache short range deep intensity close ground support .it is SUPPOSED to be hit by ground fire, you cannot miss it... AW249 long range multi purpose stealth attack, has AA and should soon get ASW as well as anti ship capabilities. Both evolved from conventional attack helos concepts like Huey and similar but are really doing different jobs.
Nah, they know what they're doing. Aren't like muricas with their LCS...that one true cardboard ships, so much that US Navy had to chose to buy Italian FREMM frigate to replace the LCS mess. Lmfao
L'incremento della spesa militare italiana è dovuta alle forti pressioni della Nato, cioè degli Stati Uniti, che stranamente ci obbligano a comprare le loro armi, essendo il produttore di morte numero uno al mondo 😅
@@cirONE65Lascialo perdere,con gli estremisti non si ragiona.Sarebbe bello non produrre nessun'arma,ma allora dovrebbero farlo tutti,altrimenti ti viene in casa uno e dovresti dargli pure le chiavi...
@@trotamarmorata2673 Ciao! Non fare il rimbambito! E non fare il meridionale centrista!! Ma piuttosto dimmi.. Ma le trotelle delle Marmellate, mormorano? O sparano solo pirlate? Grassie😄😄😄
The Apache AH64 is a battle hardened beast with proven technology… the Leonardo AW249 is… well, a typical euro metrosexual that’s never seen conflict in it entire life… I’ll go for the proven Apache war hero any day…
That's why you lost in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Syria, Lybia etc. You can't recognize when something is superior to your stuff and for that mocking it with silly phrases as "metrosexual".
@@MP-mh1tu- Nah mate, Leonardo builds pure junk, that’s why no one buys it… and the French Airbus crap is even worse… it comes with automatic white flags… that’s why you cowardly Europeans surrender all the time, everyone knows that…
The Apache is a great machine but it's simply very old. The Fenice has better overall performance with great innovations in technological terms and low costs. nice brand new vehicle should be attractive to many countries.
The Apache is way older than the Phoenix. This new Italian helicopter is brand new. In a sense, it's unfair for the american copter. But, it still means that back in the days the americans did a good job in design it. And of course through time the Apache received upgrades and innovations. While the Phoenix is just at the start of it's life. So it have plenty of room to develop. Who knows what kind of capabilities can reach this copter in future? We will see. Meanwhile we know that America and Italy togheter have excellent military capabilities and cooperation. Togheter we make this world safest day by day.
I worked in the military industry for decades.
Even if Italians always speak bad about themselves, Italy product top-notch weapon platforms.
Often much better than other countries and US itself.
It's a cultural thing to talk badly about yourself, but don't take it as true humility. Italians have learned over the millennia of invasions that it is always better to appear worse than you are.
and we (beside rome empire) always lost every attempt to colonies. If wasnìt for germans WWII would have finished 2 month. Now it's different, we actually developing exstaordinary technologies but for example we dont have nucler propelled ships... we have a small army but extremely versatile.
I am an Italian, and perhaps the fact that my country has many different cultures that compete with each other makes competition an additional factor, we speak badly of us because we are an amalgam of republics, monarchies, city states etc etc
The secret lies in the history of Italy, we are in competition with ourselves, which is why we sometimes create excellence.
@@erosgritti5171che stronzata...
the problem is we got many great ideas that since our budged (the budget that the government decides to give to the army,air force and navy) is very cheap can never use... like we had many occasions we could use a lot more aircrafts or arm them better, but no... always gotta stay cheap because the government is scared of army that does army things...
The Italian army is demonstrating its willingness to upgrade heavily. Many new vehicles such as AW249, KF51 Panther, Lynx, Tempest, ships and much more. It will be interesting to continue watching his growth.
They plan to buy 500 leopard 2a8 by 2028
@@alex-lm9wy No man, plans have changed recently. KNDS did not accept Leonardo proposals. Now Leonard has allied itself with Rheinmetall and Italy will purchase the KF51 Panther and the KF41 Lynx as well as updating the C1 Ariete.
@@alex-lm9wy Yes, KDNS didn't accept to produce parts of the tank in Italy by Leonardo. Rhinmetall otherwise accepted the deal and so Panther KF1 will be produced also in Italy. Meaning secondary boost to italian military economy and top tier tank manufacturing skills will be acquired. Also Italy is aiming to get into MCGS program. All this in less than a month. I made a lot money by trading Leonardo stocks, buy KDNS fail into sell today ;D
@@zandaico1566 yes u are right
2:21 saranno acquistati altri 24 Tifhoon e forse altri F 35 si parla di altri 35 caccia e 2 nuovi TANKER 767 B
The AW 249 carries more payload, has reduced radar cross-section, has far bigger range and is designed to cooperate with drones to minimize its exposure on the battlefield.
But obviously hasn't been used in a real conflict yet, since it is still in test phase.
That's why I'd use the AH64 for the next 5 years and THEN switch...
Of course Italy got the Mangusta too, even if it covers a slightly different role (light attack instead of heavy). So we can actually wait a bit and have this new marvel flying with our colours.
Both great.. but I prefer the AW249 because is more modern and because I'm Italian ))
Ciao
@@alessandrospaccini1547 Ciao )
Try actually producing one for actual combat, instead of talking endless nonsense.
@@frank-ko6desarai distrutto tu e l'Apache
@@alessandrobravi6212 Still waiting for you to produce a helicopter that actually works instead of a demonstration helicopter. Ridiculous deluded peasant nonsense.
The AW249 is what a Hughes designer would have drawn if asked "what would you have done differently" 40 years later.
Same concept, similar weight, similar role, similar payload, different execution.
BTW, Leonardo both designed and maintained the Aw129 for 35 years and also provides assembly, modifications and maintainable for the AH64 in service with the UK Army
The concept isn't the same, nor the heli weight (the AW249 is way lighter), the paylod also isn't the same (the AW249 can carry the double in weight than the Apache, speaking about weapons) you are confusing "max weight at payload" with "MTOW" two different things.
Actually Leonardo build the AH64 for UK, not only provides spare parts.
First of all, we must ask ourselves what sense an attack helicopter has today if we take into consideration the modern defense systems of combat tanks and transportable anti-aircraft systems, from this point of view all attack helicopters have become practically unusable. What makes the AW249 innovative and sensible are the highly advanced electronic avionics systems inserted into the helicopter produced by Leonardo, which transform it into a heliotransported command center capable of remotely controlling the drones it carries on board and carrying out the functions of intercepting enemy defense systems.
By framing the two aircraft from this perspective, we understand how much better the AW249 is.
And no, the concept isn't absolutely the same
@@s1lv3rr Finally some common sense. Thanks a lot.
@@s1lv3rr the concept is obviously the same between the apache an dthe AW-249, which is not a bad thing: a conventional helicopter, with 2 pilots in tandem, tail rotor, non retractable landing gear, wing mounted weapon systems. Engine power don't tell much, as the Apache is currently testing the new GE9 serie which are on the same ballpark ot the GE7 on the Aw249.
As I said above, the AW249 is what Huges Engineers would have drawn If asked to build the same AH64 machine, but with 40 years of technical advancements, meaning a fly by wire software system, which greatly reduce the heavy, vulnerable and space wasting hydraulics on the fuselage. Much more integration and miniaturization in the on board systems has also been applied. A new tank is not much different form an older one from the outside: it is just much easier to set all the system you want instead of bolting them wherever an empty space can be found, but you don't mess very much with the typical layout of a hull, a turret, a gun, an engine in the back and 2 tracks. This is even more true for a flying machine. The AH64E is also a distant relative to the AH64A, when it comes to capabilities and cockpit layout, but the limits of the cell are showing anyway.
The Leonardo helicopter is obviously lighter, as it integrates many composite in it's construction, the Range is improved, with more modern engines and so the payload.
Drones and AI are new concept but both the Helicopters could use them: it is just much more convenient to do that on the newer machines which much less compromises, especially when it comes to software integration to a shared battlefield control system. Loitering ammunitions like the Switchblade and the VSHORAD will also greatly improve the potential of the machine.
What I'd call a "different" concept would be a hybrid helicopter, may be with a pushing propeller like an Cheyenne, a ducted fan tail control, a convertiplane, or a dual rotor system like a Husky or an Alligator. May be a stealth system, like the FARA or the Older (and may be better) Comanche, with an internal bay for the payload (FARA).
A proven simple and very robust layout, is preferable anyway as unnecessary complexity is what kills the programs nowadays. A tested cell, easy to repair, resilient to damages and cheaper to build is a good things per se if it didn't showed limits until now.. The gear train of the AW149 will also greatly improve logistics and ease of training for the ground crew, which is also very important, when a war machine is deployed near the frontline.
@@Leptospirosi
You are telling me that "the concept" is the same because both helicopters are equipped with a vertical-axis propeller, a rear rotor and are two-seaters. So, according to you, all airplanes are the same because they are equipped with a fixed wing and a tail rudder.
The economy of Italy is a highly developed social market economy.[30] It is the third-largest national economy in the European Union, the second-largest manufacturing industry in Europe (7th-largest in the world),[31] the 9th-largest economy in the world by nominal GDP, and the 12th-largest by GDP (PPP). Italy is a founding member of the European Union, the Eurozone, the OECD, the G7 and the G20;[32] it is the eighth-largest exporter in the world, with $611 billion exported in 2021. Its closest trade ties are with the other countries of the European Union, with whom it conducts about 59% of its total trade. The largest trading partners, in order of market share in exports, are Germany (12.5%), France (10.3%), the United States (9%), Spain (5.2%), the United Kingdom (5.2%) and Switzerland (4.6%).[33]
In the post-World War II period, Italy saw a transformation from an agricultural-based economy which had been severely affected by the consequences of the World Wars, into one of the world's most advanced nations,[34] and a leading country in world trade and exports. According to the Human Development Index, the country enjoys a very high standard of living. According to The Economist, Italy has the world's 8th highest quality of life.[35] Italy owns the world's third-largest gold reserve,[36] and is the third-largest net contributor to the budget of the European Union. Furthermore, the advanced country private wealth is one of the largest in the world.[37] In terms of private wealth, Italy ranks second, after Hong Kong, in private wealth to GDP ratio. Among OECD members, Italy has a highly efficient and strong social security system, which comprises roughly 24.4% of GDP.[5][38][4]
Italy is the world's seventh-largest manufacturing country,[39] characterised by a smaller number of global multinational corporations than other economies of comparable size and many dynamic small and medium-sized enterprises, notoriously clustered in several industrial districts, which are the backbone of the Italian industry. Italy is a large manufacturer[40] and exporter[41] of a significant variety of products. Its products include machinery, vehicles, pharmaceuticals, furniture, food and clothing.[42] Italy has a significant trade surplus. The country is also well known for its influential and innovative business economic sector, an industrious and competitive agricultural sector (Italy is the world's largest wine producer),[43] and manufacturers of creatively designed, high-quality products: including automobiles, ships, home appliances, and designer clothing. Italy is the largest hub for luxury goods in Europe and the third luxury hub globally.[44][45] Italy has a strong cooperative sector, with the largest share of the population (4.5%) employed by a cooperative in the EU.[46]
My cousin Salvatore went to Napoli and has never been seen since
@@bartsolari5035 imagine if he went to detroit!
@@attenzioneallontanarsidall7940 Or Baltimore and Chicago.
@@bartsolari5035 Napoli is a terronian city. All the wealth is in Center and North Italy.
Ma che cazzate stai dicendo???? ma ti rendi conto delle assurdità che dici??? l'Italia in termini economici è davanti solo alla Grecia nel campo europeo, i greci sono 14 milioni di abitanti tra l'altro, l'Italia ne ha più di 60 milioni. Al livello internazionale siamo spazzatura, altro che la settimana economica, forse sei rimasto agli anni 80!!!
The AW249 is a superior machine, a more modern concept, but the real question is how many - or how few - of them the Italian Army will procure. Italy will not prioritize its ground army, it will always prioritize its navvy and air force, and leave a smaller budget for the army. We all know this helicopter is going to be too expensive and therefore it will only be bought in a small number.
it's best shot would be to export it, Leonardo is good at that but you are probably right, I know that Piaggio was developing drones years ago which would have been good but as usual there were too few orders for the project to make much sense
Other than range, what's superior about it ? To me it just appears to be an "Apache-Light" which prioritizes range and operational running costs over firepower and protection.
the Italian army has already ordered the first 12 helicopters
@@nucciovillani1149 quite few
@@emanemanrus5835 it’s only the first batch
The MTOW can mislead people thinking that the Apache can carry more weapons at payload, but that's false.
The MTOW include the whole weight so heli weight, fuel, weapons.
Actualky the Apache can carry as weapon at Paylod at max 1995 kilos, where thr AW249 can carry 2.800 kilos.
You will ask "how could be possible that the Apache can carry less weapon weight if it have an higher MTOW?" The answer it's simple, the Apache, unloaded, weight more than the AW249 that have fly by wire controllers so an huge weight reduction. Apache does not have fly by wire.
No fly by wire on the AW249
@@francescodalpozzo9269 It have fly by wire. Officially said by Leonardo at Eurosatory.
I’m not sure where you’re getting these numbers for max payload but for the Apache you’re incorrect. And the Apache does have a fly by wire flight control system, it’s called BUCS. But it’s a back up control system, not primary
@@ah64longbow The one that is incorrect it's you and by miles. The data are the official ones of both the helis. The AH64D in his Block II upgrade can carry at payload from 3.400 to 4.400 lbs (so in kilos at max 1.995 kilos), the AW 249 can carry 6.172 lbs (2.800 kilos).
And nope, the Apache WILL HAVE fly by wire in the future Block III upgrade (AH64E Guardian), but it doesn't have it now.
Plus, a Block III Apache, so his last development phase, will be almost on pair, but not in everything, with the AW249 that is at his first projectual phase. It's all to say.
@@solinvictus1234 pretty wild that you’re so confident in what you’re saying but you’re just spreading completely false information lol. First of all, I fly the D models and my unit has D models that were built in 2005 all the way to 2010. Guess what, they all have BUCS, which is a fly by wire system. Secondly, the AH64E is not a future upgrade, that thing has been out for a decade. You need to do some research
Leonardo da Vinci invented helicopter
Arguably... he did some sketches but it never left the drawing board. Actually modern science doomed them impossible to fly...
He had the idea and an idea is what spur people to explore it and make it real
@@rob5197 that's true. He certainly left an imprint on peoples creativity.
No paso de unos bocetos en realidad quien invento el helicóptero es el español Juan de la Cierva.
No, he did not. Drawing a picture of a concept is not the same thing as actually creating something. Stop with the deluded contadino nonsense.
Two awesome machine.
Agusta Westland AW 249 Phenix is based on common parts with the others AW helicopter to minimize the costs of production.
tu si che sei un genio
La italiana Agusta produce elicotteri dal 1952....Nel tempo si è specializzata nella costruzione/progettazione di elicotteri da trasporto civile , da guerra, da soccorso .
Apache all day long… but glad to see our allies make weapon systems too. We are all in this together!
Apache is a useless piece of history in modern battlefield. Aw249 avionics make him some sort of mobile command and control center to command drones and delivering guidance to strike enemy targets. It's like comparing 64 bit graphics games with 4k cinematic animations.
Despite this, if we ignore the superior avionics and just focus on attack power, AW249 carry more payload (nearly double), has more range, and a short radar section.
@@Alex-uo7th You are outstandingly good at vividly demonstrating to others that you have absolutely no idea about the subject. 😂
@@kilik407 Intriguing, but please, for all the misleaded pour souls that fell victims of my comments, care to elaborate in details ?
@@kilik407Infatti non ci capisci un cazzo e scrivi pure
Basta capire il progresso italiano quando pure gli stati uniti iniziano a pagarci per costruire a loro navi da guerra e sviluppare gli abrams
È un mondo globalizzato ormai, non è tanto questione di progresso su cui l'Italia ne ha di strada da fare...
@@azjumbo Azzo c'entra?? perche' se e' globalizzato non possono comprare da altri?? Ma a voi anti italiani vi fanno tutti in serie con un quoziente bassino?
@@azjumbo La parte tecnologica a dire il vero non ci e' mai mancata, a noi sono sempre mancati i soldi per progettare e produrre mezzi di livello, lo stesso ariete motore ridotto non abbastanza potente e corazzatura inferiore alla media perche' altrimenti il motore non bastava, si va a risparmio.
Many of you perhaps don't know that Italy has won two official supplies for the US army: 80 CJ 27 aircraft and the supply for the next 10 years of engines for American surface-to-air, air-to-surface and ballistic missiles.
If AW249 cost is about same i would pick it
🌸🌸..Italy🤝🏻Bangladesh..❇️🇧🇩
Italians want nothing to do with Bangladesh
The biggest problem of the Leonardo AW249 is the market. As far as I know NO ONE in Europe (except Italy) is ordering this with other European countries developing national solutions.
Cause it's still a pre-production Prototype. It was officially presented less than one month ago at Eurosatory. You can't acquire an heli that still didn't started a production line.
It will sell a lot.
Isnt Turkey Interested in buying them?
@@JohnSmith-rw8uh Turkey is developing the atak2 that is no more and no less an upgraded version of the atak, or to well say the lightweight A129 Mangusta.
Dico solo di non sottovalutarci come al solito; AW249 prodotto eccellente.
If you take away the French nuclear power, Italy has the most powerful army in the European Union 🇮🇹🇪🇺❤️💪
Non sei di parte 😂
I'm italian and i call bullshit, the French and the English are actually using their armies and their armaments are comparable, basically they are more ready
Ne sei sicuro?!?
Naaaa
@@sandroderrini2936 non si capisce che essere di parte e’ limitativo neo giudizi.
Super AW 249!!! 💪💪💪💪
Would love to see the Viper in the comparison too.
Attack helicopters are all about sensors. The helicopter that can spot multiple targets and attack them the quickest is the better helicopter.
Airbus' Tiger helicopters are a complete failure. Germany withdrew them all.
The Tigers are only good for the French who surrender without a fight and become collaborators
Something funny is going on here? the 249 is more streamlined and has more power and five blades but lifts less and is slower? none of this makes any sense, is someone messing with the numbers?
Probably different configurations (249 use less rpm for efficiency?). That might explain, while less fast and more powerful, it has a lot more range
The aw 249 still on prototype stage, so I don't think the specs stated in this video are correct, maybe they are only extimated
MTOW indicates the weight of the helicopter overall, not just the weapons. in reality the AW249, weighing less, can carry equal or heavier armaments. on speed for now it seems slightly slower but has a much greater range of action.
The 249 can carry a higher payload than the Apache. Your messing numbers of Payload Weight and MTOW - maximum take off weight: as the apache is way heavier than the 249, in the end the weight of it's payload is inferior to the 249 because the Apache frame is way heavier. It's like a 2 tons of payload on the Apache and almost 3 tons of payload on the Leonardo' s Attack Chopper. Just do the math, knowing the concepts you're using. Cheers
It doesn't lift less, but almost the double more than the Apache, speaking of weapons at the payload. And since the AW249 is way lighter than the Apache (fly by wire and other new integrated tech) i think that, if the data about max cruiser speed and max speed are correct, the engine was tweaked in torque power and rpm to have an advantage on the MTOW and not on speed. Considering also that the maximum operative range is the double of the Apache, as the hours it can remain operative in the sky.
the apache is more obsolete. the italian is so much better.
It's not as if the first version of the Apache flew 40 years ago…
Apart from that, the current version of the Apache has nothing to do with the original in terms of avionics, more modern materials and integrated systems in general.
La Ducati del cielo
technical data does not show fighting capabilities - just look at russian KF51 - in Ukraine proved to be very vulnerable even that Ukrainians did not have best air defence. Would be interesting to see Apache fighting in Ukraine - the real test
As a Italian but I prefer Apache!!
E ci mancava...😂😂Bah...
@@simeto05 eh la figa 🤫
tu da italiano non capisci un caxxo, per cosa preferisci l apache? argomenta se ne sei capace
@@simeto05 infatti ci mancava il solito strunz, aspetto che argomenta la sua risposta
RUclips is full of people pretending to be Italian.
Italies?
Italy's.
13.08.24 Polska podpisała umowę na zakup 96 Apache AH64E.
I prefer the ah 129, the previous version of the aw249
così giusto per dire una cazzata
@@sax6475 perché una cazzata?
Ah ora ho capito, non hai tutti i torti
One would say 🚁🇺🇸: a dragonfly, while 🚁🇮🇹: a damsel (Zygoptera)😉
🟢🟢⚪⚪🔴🔴
I T A L Y
Italies?
Viva America viva Italy democratica siamo come fratelli
USA ...il vero stato canaglia, sarà tuo fratello....parla per te.
fratelli? noi siamo una colonia per loro
@@albertoghirelli9620meglio una colonia per loro che per i russi
@@Quasar975 ecco il discorso da ritardato
Un altro che non ha capito un cazzo della vita. Ti auguro di averci a che fare davvero, poi ti accorgerai che ti trattano come un cameriere, se ti va bene. Questo è il frutto di ottant'anni di colonialismo, ricordati che ci hanno conquistato, non liberato.
Al di là delle caratteristiche del Fenice, se Leonardo voleva realizzare un concorrente per il mercato estero all'Apache, credo abbia fatto i conti con eccessivo ottimismo. l'Apache, non solo gode di una solida catena produttiva e di esperienza operativa ma ha alle spalle la lobby americana della Boeing. Non so se mi spiego...
Si ma anche gli americani stessi non si affidano solo all'apache visto che parallelamente hanno investito per 40 anni nell'ammodernamento del AH1 arrivato alla versione Z , il Viper, per il supporto aereo ravvicinato ad ala rotante del corpo dei marines. L'AH 64 è un aereo d'attacco anticarro, quello fa benissimo, nel ruolo di supporto alla fanteria è invece così deficitario che l'esercito piuttosto chiede sistemicamente all'usaf la disponibilità dell'A10. In Afghanistan e Iraq l'AH64 ha mostrato i limiti di una piattaforma nata per ingaggiare mezzi corazzati, ma pessima a ingaggiare tutto il resto. Il mangusta prima e il phoenix dopo hanno un'altra logica, e quindi il paragone è sbagliato. Come è sbagliato paragonare un Abrams con un Bradley, perché non è che perché sono cingolati e hanno la torretta sono "più o meno la stessa cosa" come non paragoni un centauro e uno stryker, la Cavour e la Reagan, un Typhoon e un F35 etc.
Si assomigliano esteticamente perché ormai si è imposto quel tipo di disposizione in abitacolo, copiato anche dal pessimo eurocopter tiger, dal mil mi 28, e dal wz10 cinese, e che era stato adottato dalle versioni più recenti del mil mi 24 (che per la cronaca è un elicottero d'assalto e non da attacco).
In definitiva sono come angurie e meloni, saranno pure simili ma fanno cose diverse...
Qual è la differenza tra attacco e assalto? @@matteoferrarizanolini6724
@@matteoferrarizanolini6724 Non condivido la sua valutazione sull'Apache ma anche ammettendo che le cose stanno come dice lei, il discorso non cambia. Il rivale del Fenice sarebbe il Viper, sempre un elicottero USA ben consolidato come esperienza operativa
Beh, con la reputazione che si è fatta la Boeing ultimamente...
infatti non ti spieghi
Bellissimo
Apache. Boeing. Enough said
The real limit of the Italian helicopter is that the name isn't epic.
Not that Cobra or Apache sounds Epic too.
But the Italian helo Rgt.s names are pretty Epic.
3rd Rgt. for Special Operation "Aldebaran" and 5th Rgt. AVES "Rigel"
@@solinvictus1234 there's at least a bit of fantasy in Apache or Cobra.
@@UTJK. There's a lot of fantasy also in the Italian names, but you don't know about that. The Mangusta "Mongoose" was named in that way cause it was the market contender of the Cobra, so they called that heli with the natural enemy of the Cobra, Mongoose.
Fenice "Phoenix" cause it arise the helicopters from the ashes, giving it another new battle tactical role to helis that before the advent of this heli was becoming useless with new drones advent, as a drone mothership (cause is what it is in reality).
@@solinvictus1234 I'm Italian solin and I know it. I was referring to that particular helicopter of the video, that is designated with a number.
I can only add that the Italians have missed the mark with the design this time. All Italian helicopters are beautiful and always make you admire them, but not this time. Probably the designers were underpaid)
The helicopter turned out to be ugly compared to its predecessor, the A129 Mangusta, which I consider the most beautiful combat helicopter in the Western countries, along with the Turkish version of the T129 and the European Tiger.
But this does not diminish its progress in all characteristics compared to the A129.
I just look at it without much admiration for its appearance.
The Apache is superior because its battle tested and proven its capabilities. However, the AWS has newer technologies. Until it is battle tested, the Apache is superior. Look at the Russian equipment in Ukraine that was supposed to be superior and has failed countless times. Things look good on paper until shit hits the fan.
This won't be any good to us as long we keep helping Ukraine
ALGERIA Will bigh 32 hélicoptère FROM Italie
Your power numbers are based upon the ORIGINAL apache from 40 years ago btw. you are way behind.
🇮🇹🇮🇹
AW in Leonardo stands for Agusta-Westland
e quindi? è tutta italiana al 100%
Helicopters are expensive, but men can do the helicopter when they get out of the shower
Comunque, tranne la superiore velocita di Leonardo le altre differenze sono minime. Tutto poi dipende dall'abilità di chi lo conduce nei combattimenti.
Si ma l’US army lo ha usato parecchio l’apache , molti combattimenti , noi per tirare un missile in combattimento lo dobbiamo chiedere al presidente
della serie non hai capito una mazza
L'Italia nel suo piccolo si difende!!! 👍
Italies? Learn to spell please
After everything this video has you choose to pick on the one spelling mistake and insult them on it, at least point it out politely.
It is like compare a Ferrari with a Ford GT or a Corvette.
Apache can attack also an F-16 or an A-10 if they're in its AM9-X's range...the Mangusta can't 💀
It is not the Mongoose, it is the Phoenix
Ma se non capisci un cazzo perchè fai il Maranza fan degli yankee che neanche sai di che parli?
What country is Italies? I just know Italy...
Italies 🤔
love u Italy ❤
From Bangladesh
Sono talmente sofisticati pronti a tutto che non riescono a vedere l’arrivo di una semplice fucilata.
Airbus' Tiger helicopters are a complete failure. Germany withdrew them all.
The Tigers are only good for the French who surrender without a fight and become collaborators
Un commento pieno di contenuto...
Una fucilata non gli fa neanche il solletico.
Why you say "italian" ? We are always a colony of sionist anglo-saxons
😂😂 torna a leccare Putler vecchio 🐷
tu si sempre scem....
Ma un vaffa con tutto il cuore, sempre per restare educati. Traditore!
@@geppettogeppetto6236 se avessi un minimo di dignità lo riconosceresti, ignorante. Era proprio per non tradire la Patria che queste merde devono levare le loro basi ad endarsene.
AW249 didnt dominate the battlefield yet 😂
Don't tell me... maybe because it's still on development... Captain Obvious, what a pleasure having you here...
sarchiapone è ancora in fase di sviluppo
Good helicopter the Italian, but remember that the engine is made in USA or UK. From a point of view it would be uneconomical to develop an engine from scratch. Which is what the Turks are doing for other reasons. Turks who are not in the got of engine manufacturers and reliability is needed in many components. (they have tried everywhere, and part of the know-how is for the licensed production of engines (not the latest) of the F16. After the armaments at the missile level they are always coming from other nations. Good helicopter the Italian, but remember that the engine is made in USA or UK. From a point of view it would be uneconomical to develop an engine from scratch. Which is what the Turks are doing for other reasons. Turks who are not in the got of engine manufacturers and reliability is needed in many components. (they have tried everywhere, and part of the know-how is for the licensed production of engines (not the latest) of the F16. After the armaments at the missile level they are always coming from other nations.
good engineer, when he designs something, if a component is already available, it costs less to buy it directly than to redesign everything every time. Even in your vehicles, somewhere there are Italian components.
Non comprendo l'inglese
Cj sono i sottotitoli
The polish-italian helicopter looks nice.
There is nothing Polish about this helicopter!
@@nosferatus777 Oh really, why then it's built in cooperation with polish mod? and why the name is AgustaWestland?
@@BurninVinyl
Leonardo bought the Polish PZL-Świdnik factory.
agusta was an italian factory westland was english and they cooperated for years together until finmeccanica today leonardo bought that too.
a letter of intent was signed with Poland to buy it and therefore expand the market, but the helicopter was developed in ITALY.
nothing Polish about this helicopter!
@@nosferatus777 Thanks for the lesson from wikipedia but it's wrong. Go check the source key.areo : The same thing happened for the AW149.
@@BurninVinyl
In July 2018, Leonardo and Polish Armaments Group signed a letter of intent regarding cooperation on a bid to supply the AW249 to fulfill the Polish combat helicopter program Kruk and mooted the use of its subsidiary PZL- Świdnik to locally produce elements of the rotorcraft.
a little to think that this is also a Polish helicopter,
but you are free to feel proud of this Italian helicopter.
The Dutch got Italian trains. I hope their helicopters are better or else they fly like dodo's and burn like petrol.
The Dutch Is A German That Thinks Like An English ! They Should Buy English Trains A Better Ride For Them !
Dutch, Train… we are talking about Italian Helicopter
@@GRRMichigan same factory, same crap.
Or is it difficult to see the logic that if a company builds crap trains & helicopters , yes they are crap too can't build anything with quality?
@@SkinPeeleR The Dutch are crooks and completely incapable of managing railway material, everyone knows that.
@@SkinPeeleR u speak bullshit dude. Really, otherwise make your own trains in Holland, if you are capable, otherwise shut up please ,,, I live in Finland, Helsinki, all the trains are Italians, Pendolino and Allegro. They work magnificently, good design and nobody complains, always working in Finnish tough winters. Start developing ur own Dutch industry or just mind ur own trading business country.
The Leonardo AW249 is pure garbage, just like its predecessor the AW129… that’s why they never sold any of that Italian junk… whereas the Apache has sold more than 5000 units 😂😂😂
Apache è spazzatura
Apache Is rubbish
We don't need defense experts like you mate, go back to your junkyard country
stai zitto letame
You can ask at spanish army regiment in Afganistan... when they been litterally saved from 1 "old and rubbish A129 mangusta..." usa try to saved spanish before italian intervention.. but failed miserable.... last but not least... mangusta cost a fraction of apache approximately 1 apache cost like 4 mangusta
Helicopters on the modern battlefield are becoming obsolete.
The AW249 can remotely control drones for recon or attack support.
Obsolete is not the word i will chose for this heli.
ecco il genio
The Italian Leonardo AW249 uses American-made GE engines 🤣🤣🤣… what a joke 😂😂😂
So what? The US Navy use Italian FREMM Frigates. The US Predator and Reaper drones use Leonardo EWS (Electronic Warfare System).
The US Coast Guard use the Italian Agusta Westland helis.
What's your point exactely, kiddo?
@@solinvictus1234 - That this piece of Italian AW249 junk uses American-made GE engines 😂😂😂 and yes, it’s a piece of junk… that’s why nobody buys it… just in case you didn’t get it the first time 🤣🤣🤣
@@ianrichards909 If this is a piece of junk the Apache is a paper heli.
Plus nobody is buying it cause it have to be still launched on the market. It was showed a week ago at Eurosatory.
Smart4ss child like you should shut their mouth if they din't know what are they talking about.
And by the way, learn how to build proper ships, cause you ended up buying Italian Frigates, smart4ss.
@@ianrichards909 cope harder. For now two prototypes are available. The only piece of junk is your brain.
@@ianrichards909 the laughing emojis... it says it all about you and your expertise. nobody takes you seriously
Does Italy have enemies they should worry about , France ? Austria ? Greece ? , Switzerland ? . Waist of time , material and money .
Waist? Go learn something ...
@@Eurodance_Groove Thank you ,I will do something agout it .
We're satellites of the US. The enemies of the USA are automatically our enemies. And even our allies turn against us. Turkey for example. Russians want to build a naval base in Lybia. It's dramatically close to Italy. We need updated weaponry
Russia is the enemy of free democracies.
no, purtroppo deve difendersi dagli idioti
It's just a copy nothing new about this copter
Envy is a bad beast.
you copy of chinese idiot🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Aw249 design para asiático, muito feio uma mistura de elicoptero chinês
Com indiano
É baseado no AW149 e A129 Mangusta. Além disso, Leonardo construiu Apaches para o exército do Reino Unido. Se você não sabe do que está falando, cale a boca.
We Italians are really good at war helicopters, in Europe we have no rivals, the Germans are good at tank helicopters, the French are good at baguettes carried under the arm and that stink from the armpit when you eat them
Two completely different concepts...Apache short range deep intensity close ground support .it is SUPPOSED to be hit by ground fire, you cannot miss it... AW249 long range multi purpose stealth attack, has AA and should soon get ASW as well as anti ship capabilities. Both evolved from conventional attack helos concepts like Huey and similar but are really doing different jobs.
Yeah May be ..
👊🇮🇹👍
Parlare in italiano altrimenti non capisco! Grazie!🤔
The Apache has lithium batteries for silent night operations.
The italian one looks like a carboard school project lmfao
Nah, they know what they're doing. Aren't like muricas with their LCS...that one true cardboard ships, so much that US Navy had to chose to buy Italian FREMM frigate to replace the LCS mess. Lmfao
Another butthurt Angloid
L'incremento della spesa militare italiana è dovuta alle forti pressioni della Nato, cioè degli Stati Uniti, che stranamente ci obbligano a comprare le loro armi, essendo il produttore di morte numero uno al mondo 😅
la russia quest'anno spenderà 130 migliardi di dollari , l'8% del suo pil
...ospedali con file estenuanti, scuole inadeguate, impianti di smaltimento rifiuti insufficienti, strade statali inadeguate e ponti traballanti....vergogna!
e cosa ha a che vedere con questo comunista disfattista dei miei stivali?
@@cirONE65Lascialo perdere,con gli estremisti non si ragiona.Sarebbe bello non produrre nessun'arma,ma allora dovrebbero farlo tutti,altrimenti ti viene in casa uno e dovresti dargli pure le chiavi...
Aspetto la rece della TROtella martoriata..😁😁😁
ENSEMENÍIÍ..!!!! PRONTI .!!!...ERO OCCUPATO A PRENDERE I SOLDI DELLA NOTTATA DI LAVORO DE LA TÒ VECIA SBOLDRA !!!
Pronti !!Stavo riscuotendo la grana dá la tò vecia sboldra....non rende più ormai massa sbuusadaá !!!
EENNSEEMEEENIIIÍ !!!
@@trotamarmorata2673 Ciao! Non fare il rimbambito! E non fare il meridionale centrista!! Ma piuttosto dimmi.. Ma le trotelle delle Marmellate, mormorano? O sparano solo pirlate? Grassie😄😄😄
@@trotamarmorata2673 Eccoti!! Ma guarda, finchè siete 4 minchie secche, per forza non rende!! Cambia mestiere il pappone non ti si addice!!😁😁😁
The Apache AH64 is a battle hardened beast with proven technology… the Leonardo AW249 is… well, a typical euro metrosexual that’s never seen conflict in it entire life… I’ll go for the proven Apache war hero any day…
That's why you lost in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Syria, Lybia etc.
You can't recognize when something is superior to your stuff and for that mocking it with silly phrases as "metrosexual".
At Leonardo have tons of Battle experience with their other helicopter the AW 129 , sensors , weaponry and avionics are much improved versions
The Aw249 Is the beach versione of A 129 buttel proved elicopter
Leonardo is used everywhere in battle, and Airbus kicks Boeing's ass anytime by the way
@@MP-mh1tu- Nah mate, Leonardo builds pure junk, that’s why no one buys it… and the French Airbus crap is even worse… it comes with automatic white flags… that’s why you cowardly Europeans surrender all the time, everyone knows that…
the Italian helicpter is the best: American technology sucks!
The Apache is a great machine but it's simply very old. The Fenice has better overall performance with great innovations in technological terms and low costs. nice brand new vehicle should be attractive to many countries.
The Apache is way older than the Phoenix. This new Italian helicopter is brand new.
In a sense, it's unfair for the american copter.
But, it still means that back in the days the americans did a good job in design it. And of course through time the Apache received upgrades and innovations. While the Phoenix is just at the start of it's life. So it have plenty of room to develop.
Who knows what kind of capabilities can reach this copter in future? We will see.
Meanwhile we know that America and Italy togheter have excellent military capabilities and cooperation. Togheter we make this world safest day by day.
@@danielefabbro822
Believe me older or not you don't want to face and Apache
@@adeliomoro2069 never said that.
the italian one is probably better but you're way out of line saying that the american one sucks