Just been doing the same refurbishment on BAK 10 and 12. Pretty solid motors. I use silicone covered wire for replacement as it's a bit more flexible and should last a long time. Heat shrink over the joints and then I slip a fibreglass silicone coated braided sleeve over the whole lot to end up with two separate leads. I secure the leads internally with thin cable ties to give them some support and keep them away from that fan. You could do it traditionally with waxed lacing cord. One thing to watch out for is the spring loaded oil or grease felt lubricators on these models. Sometimes they stay in place when putting the shaft back, sometimes they don't. I've done away with the old resistance foot controller and introduced Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) for speed control. I don't like putting full power on when testing these. Sometimes I'll use a bench power supply and get it turning with 40 to 60 volts DC. The PWM unit puts out 160 volts DC. The speed control is a revelation of smoothness, all the way down to about 60-RPM where you can see the pulley grub screw rotating. Using PWM opens up all sorts of control, like speed control with feedback. There's even a handy hole in each end of the shaft to attach a sensor to. Eventually, I want to combine the mechanics of a 201 with modern electronics.
Hi Bob, I just wanted to say a big thankyou for this vid. I recently came across this type of motor for the first time and have found your advice on disassembly to be invaluable.
Another excellent video! Thank you for sharing these. Any tips for opening the Bakelite case on a BR 7 motor? I have followed all of your steps for the BR 8 shown here through the point of cutting the wires...but at the 3:20'ish mark in the video, the case just slides apart and mine refuses to give up any secrets. I don't want to damage the Bakelite and have already tried harsh language and threats of violence. It is stubborn.
@@TaraRicherson I did finally get mine--I'd cut the wires really short, but they were still poking into the hole juuust enough to keep it from opening. I used the flat end of a drill bit holder to shove them back in, pulled and pulled, and finally got the two pieces separated enough to fit the flat end of a metal rasp in between them--not pressing against the inside of the motor, just setting the edge in that gap. I wiggled the rasp gently back and forth a bit (like in a see-saw motion), widening the gap a little on one side and then the other, and then it got past whatever was making it stick and opened up. Hopefully it will be the same for you!
Late to the party, but my BR 7 came apart after putting it in a vise and giving it some gentle love taps with a brass hammer at the, uh... little sticky outy points on the Bakelite bits, on the opposite side of the motor badge? The ones covering the seam of the metal motor case, where it looks like you could pry it off with a flathead screwdriver but you probably shouldn't.
Once you have removed the two long retaining screws, there is nothing but friction holding it all together. Remember to remove the brushes and that it is all very fragile. There are three main parts. One Bakelite end cap at the pulley end with the leads poking out. Then the metal cover assembly and finally, the brush end cap which is internally wired to the centre stator coils. Start at the pulley end. Remove the pulley. Grasp the metal cover section in one hand and the end cap in the other. Do not try to pull apart but use side to side rocking movements with light pulling. Gradually, it will loosen up. Don't be tempted to use screwdrivers etc. The Bakelite is very thin in places and very brittle. Once moving and coming apart, push the main spindle back into the bearing. You might find the whole armature comes out as well. Don't lose the two fibre washers at each end. Feed the leads back into the end cap as you go. Next off is the metal cover. use the same technique of mostly side to side with small amounts of pull. It often sticks to the irons and paper insulation of the stator. Do not try to separate the second end cap from the stator assembly. The brush wiring holds the two parts together. At this stage, you can remove dust and use white spirit or propanol to degrease. Polish up the commutator sections. Don't clean up the windings with solvents. This is where I differ to Bob's approach. The two leads that come out of the motor have original rubber insulation. It probably wouldn't pass a PAT test. I strip off the insulation to well close to the coils and replace with siliconised fibre glass heat resisting sleeving. One smaller sleeve over the bare wire, and another to cover the new sleeve and the remains of the rubber. Secure with small cable ties. If the paper insulation is loose or damaged, use Kevlar tape to replace it. Don't cover the ventilation holes. Clean everything up. Note that one end cap may have an oiling port. It's not just a hole, but has a spring loaded felt pad that holds the oil and rubs on the shaft. Easy to remove, but difficult to replace. Needs care when assembling. For the really keen ones, while apart, get a multlimeter out and check all the coil resistances and hope they are all in spec.
Hey bob- how would you go about replacing the wires around the brush holders inside the motor? Mine weren’t in great shape so I de-soldered and resoldered new ones but they keep snapping with closing up the motor as the 18g wire + shrink tubing reduces flexibility. I feel so defeated !
This is very helpful! Do you have a video on how to replace the motor brush wiring? I really don't want to do this, but I'm looking closely at it and there is some copper exposed. Or can I just hit it with solder?
You can just replace the wire to the brush holder in the same way as you would for the primary side. Just make sure the orientation doesn't get swapped or the motor runs backwards!
@@BobFowlerWorkshop well...I forgot to mention this isn't the exact motor I have. I have the one for the 15-90. BR8S. It seem that the connection to the brush holder is fixed/soldered in. Can I email you a photo??
This is great! Should I be worried about any ohmic issues? I'm following your work step by step but I am unsure what is the expected resistance of each loop of coils. I measured the wires individually with the respective brush and they read 13.6 Ohms each.
If you're talking about the Singer button type controller, I use 18 gauge lamp cord for those. Make sure you save and reuse the heat shielding tubing that the factory used, it adds an extra measure of protection inside the box.
@@bilahernandez8003 OK, so it's the knee bar type in a bentwood case? You can use the same wire as for your motor. Use lamp cord though for your power cord.
There are options, but coarse sandpaper isn't one of them. Fibreglass or brass propelling pencils work well, very fine, 800 + grit wet and dry, abrasive rubbers. Just don't end up with deep scratches. Use a coarse cloth to clean the strips of insulation in between the copper. The brushes need to ride smoothly on the armature.
Starting @ 13:45 Hi Bob. What did you use for strain relief? Did I miss something? I rewired a 1937 128-13 with the knee control in a bentwood case last year. If memory serves, I think I ended up using a grommet for the hole after tying an underwriters knot. I did the same thing you did with the heat shrink tubing. I ended up having to rewire the lamp, too. Hope y'all are doing well.
Hi Rich. In this case, because it's a hardwire to the knee contriller, I used a small zip tie indide the case as a strain relief. I went back and looked at the video and apparently I missed showing that. Thanks for pointing it out! I didn't add a grommet as 3 layers of shrink tube pretty much takes care of that in an application where the wires won't be moving around.
Again, perfect video for a 66-14 I’m working on right now. Wires from the motor are shot but just like this one here, there’s hope…lol. By the way, what’s the difference of a 66 vs a 66-14 or any other number followed by the 66? Thanks Bob!
Well darn, after coming back to the video, I realized the wires from my motor are fully exposed, there’s no black tubing coming out from the motor like yours….is that bad? Please say no. I plan on going to harbor freight in a bit to get the heat shrink tubing. Hopefully that will work with those fully exposed wires if I go far enough toward the motor. Wish me luck!
Hallo Bob I'am Dedi, from Indonesia. I often see your video's and it's all very help for me (Singer 66, 201, 221). Because i start learn about restoration the old sewing machine. Now I'm waiting for Singer motor Catalog BUK 8, I dont know it's working or not. If it come, I hope you help me. ( sorry, my english not good)
Just been doing the same refurbishment on BAK 10 and 12. Pretty solid motors.
I use silicone covered wire for replacement as it's a bit more flexible and should last a long time.
Heat shrink over the joints and then I slip a fibreglass silicone coated braided sleeve over the whole lot to end up with two separate leads.
I secure the leads internally with thin cable ties to give them some support and keep them away from that fan.
You could do it traditionally with waxed lacing cord.
One thing to watch out for is the spring loaded oil or grease felt lubricators on these models. Sometimes they stay in place when putting the shaft back, sometimes they don't.
I've done away with the old resistance foot controller and introduced Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) for speed control.
I don't like putting full power on when testing these. Sometimes I'll use a bench power supply and get it turning with 40 to 60 volts DC.
The PWM unit puts out 160 volts DC. The speed control is a revelation of smoothness, all the way down to about 60-RPM where you can see the pulley grub screw rotating.
Using PWM opens up all sorts of control, like speed control with feedback. There's even a handy hole in each end of the shaft to attach a sensor to.
Eventually, I want to combine the mechanics of a 201 with modern electronics.
I like the idea of the double wrap shrink wrap to the leads. I learned something! Great video.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Bob, I just wanted to say a big thankyou for this vid. I recently came across this type of motor for the first time and have found your advice on disassembly to be invaluable.
Glad that it helped!
Great video, Bob. Very helpful as all of your videos are. That machine had beautiful decals.
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice! Thanks Bob
Thank you too!
Another excellent video! Thank you for sharing these. Any tips for opening the Bakelite case on a BR 7 motor? I have followed all of your steps for the BR 8 shown here through the point of cutting the wires...but at the 3:20'ish mark in the video, the case just slides apart and mine refuses to give up any secrets. I don't want to damage the Bakelite and have already tried harsh language and threats of violence. It is stubborn.
Did you ever find any answers, Tara? I'm having the same problem!
@@dqverify6797 No. :( I had to give up. I cleaned and rewired it the best I could, but I would love to go back and do it up right.
@@TaraRicherson I did finally get mine--I'd cut the wires really short, but they were still poking into the hole juuust enough to keep it from opening. I used the flat end of a drill bit holder to shove them back in, pulled and pulled, and finally got the two pieces separated enough to fit the flat end of a metal rasp in between them--not pressing against the inside of the motor, just setting the edge in that gap. I wiggled the rasp gently back and forth a bit (like in a see-saw motion), widening the gap a little on one side and then the other, and then it got past whatever was making it stick and opened up. Hopefully it will be the same for you!
Late to the party, but my BR 7 came apart after putting it in a vise and giving it some gentle love taps with a brass hammer at the, uh... little sticky outy points on the Bakelite bits, on the opposite side of the motor badge? The ones covering the seam of the metal motor case, where it looks like you could pry it off with a flathead screwdriver but you probably shouldn't.
Once you have removed the two long retaining screws, there is nothing but friction holding it all together.
Remember to remove the brushes and that it is all very fragile.
There are three main parts. One Bakelite end cap at the pulley end with the leads poking out. Then the metal cover assembly and finally, the brush end cap which is internally wired to the centre stator coils.
Start at the pulley end. Remove the pulley.
Grasp the metal cover section in one hand and the end cap in the other. Do not try to pull apart but use side to side rocking movements with light pulling.
Gradually, it will loosen up. Don't be tempted to use screwdrivers etc. The Bakelite is very thin in places and very brittle.
Once moving and coming apart, push the main spindle back into the bearing. You might find the whole armature comes out as well. Don't lose the two fibre washers at each end. Feed the leads back into the end cap as you go.
Next off is the metal cover. use the same technique of mostly side to side with small amounts of pull. It often sticks to the irons and paper insulation of the stator.
Do not try to separate the second end cap from the stator assembly. The brush wiring holds the two parts together.
At this stage, you can remove dust and use white spirit or propanol to degrease. Polish up the commutator sections. Don't clean up the windings with solvents.
This is where I differ to Bob's approach. The two leads that come out of the motor have original rubber insulation. It probably wouldn't pass a PAT test. I strip off the insulation to well close to the coils and replace with siliconised fibre glass heat resisting sleeving. One smaller sleeve over the bare wire, and another to cover the new sleeve and the remains of the rubber.
Secure with small cable ties.
If the paper insulation is loose or damaged, use Kevlar tape to replace it. Don't cover the ventilation holes.
Clean everything up. Note that one end cap may have an oiling port. It's not just a hole, but has a spring loaded felt pad that holds the oil and rubs on the shaft. Easy to remove, but difficult to replace. Needs care when assembling.
For the really keen ones, while apart, get a multlimeter out and check all the coil resistances and hope they are all in spec.
Hey bob- how would you go about replacing the wires around the brush holders inside the motor? Mine weren’t in great shape so I de-soldered and resoldered new ones but they keep snapping with closing up the motor as the 18g wire + shrink tubing reduces flexibility. I feel so defeated !
Hello Bob
I get the old singer motor, cataloq B.U.K.8-E. What year is it made Bob?
Thanks for the video. Can I ask what bit you used for the pulley screw? Mine is stuck fast and I'm worried about stripping it.
I presume you have a Chapman, if so, a #88 works great.
This is very helpful! Do you have a video on how to replace the motor brush wiring? I really don't want to do this, but I'm looking closely at it and there is some copper exposed. Or can I just hit it with solder?
You can just replace the wire to the brush holder in the same way as you would for the primary side. Just make sure the orientation doesn't get swapped or the motor runs backwards!
@@BobFowlerWorkshop well...I forgot to mention this isn't the exact motor I have. I have the one for the 15-90. BR8S. It seem that the connection to the brush holder is fixed/soldered in. Can I email you a photo??
@@T1trigirl Sure. argosybob@gmail.com
This is great! Should I be worried about any ohmic issues? I'm following your work step by step but I am unsure what is the expected resistance of each loop of coils. I measured the wires individually with the respective brush and they read 13.6 Ohms each.
That's about right, anywhere between 12 and 16 ohms is fine, as long as they are within 10% or so of each other, it should be fine.
very nice job.
Hi there, question for you, what kind of wire is used for the speed controller. I have a 1947 singer model 15. Your videos are awesome!!! Thank you!!!
If you're talking about the Singer button type controller, I use 18 gauge lamp cord for those. Make sure you save and reuse the heat shielding tubing that the factory used, it adds an extra measure of protection inside the box.
@@BobFowlerWorkshop thank you so much for your reply, I have the 600 volt will that work?
It’s a knees speed controller
@@bilahernandez8003 Certainly will, just heavier insulation.
@@bilahernandez8003 OK, so it's the knee bar type in a bentwood case? You can use the same wire as for your motor. Use lamp cord though for your power cord.
How did you polish the bars in the armature? What can I use given that I don't have a workshop? Would a soft cloth help?
You can flush it with CRC Quick Drying Contact Cleaner and carefully clean the contacts with a paper towel.
There are options, but coarse sandpaper isn't one of them.
Fibreglass or brass propelling pencils work well, very fine, 800 + grit wet and dry, abrasive rubbers. Just don't end up with deep scratches.
Use a coarse cloth to clean the strips of insulation in between the copper.
The brushes need to ride smoothly on the armature.
Starting @ 13:45
Hi Bob. What did you use for strain relief? Did I miss something? I rewired a 1937 128-13 with the knee control in a bentwood case last year. If memory serves, I think I ended up using a grommet for the hole after tying an underwriters knot. I did the same thing you did with the heat shrink tubing. I ended up having to rewire the lamp, too. Hope y'all are doing well.
Hi Rich. In this case, because it's a hardwire to the knee contriller, I used a small zip tie indide the case as a strain relief. I went back and looked at the video and apparently I missed showing that. Thanks for pointing it out! I didn't add a grommet as 3 layers of shrink tube pretty much takes care of that in an application where the wires won't be moving around.
@@BobFowlerWorkshop Excellent idea using the zip tie. I'll have to remember that one. Thanks.
Also, I have aa BR7 motor. What grease should I use and will you post a tutorial on either cleaning or repairing the grease wick?
Some will disagree, but the Sew Retro Grease from the Featherweight Shop is a good choice.
Again, perfect video for a 66-14 I’m working on right now. Wires from the motor are shot but just like this one here, there’s hope…lol. By the way, what’s the difference of a 66 vs a 66-14 or any other number followed by the 66? Thanks Bob!
Well darn, after coming back to the video, I realized the wires from my motor are fully exposed, there’s no black tubing coming out from the motor like yours….is that bad? Please say no. I plan on going to harbor freight in a bit to get the heat shrink tubing. Hopefully that will work with those fully exposed wires if I go far enough toward the motor. Wish me luck!
Hi there look forward to doing my motor rehab, you are so Inspiring! Question is this wire a 18 g stranded 300 or 600 volt? Thank you!
18 gauge, stranded, 300 volt is fine for 120 volt service areas.
Hallo Bob
I'am Dedi, from Indonesia. I often see your video's and it's all very help for me (Singer 66, 201, 221). Because i start learn about restoration the old sewing machine. Now I'm waiting for Singer motor Catalog BUK 8, I dont know it's working or not. If it come, I hope you help me. ( sorry, my english not good)
Thank you Bob!