I’m the photographer that took that video of Moe in 1987 at Oakdale Golf Club in Toronto. It’s too bad you can hear the sound of the ball being hit by his persimmon driver. Repeatedly sounded like a gun being fired. He squared the club face every time and the ball was never off line.
@@Scratchgolfacademy Hi Adam I sent you a spectacular still photograph of Moe taken that day when I played with him at Oakdale. Remarkable position that are a testament to his fairly conventional position at impact. We should all be in those positions!
I decided to set up about a foot and a half behind with my driver and 3 wood, about a foot behind my irons, and thought about Moe and I made five pars in a row today. Never changing. Totally stopped hitting it fat and topping it. Thank you Moe.
Thanks Adam. As everyone knows, Moe was an incredible ball striker. He could drive it through a doughnut hole from 250 yds when 250 meant something. Don’t think Moe gets all the credit he deserves because the technology and the ball actually spun a lot more while far less forgiving. All great points regarding Moe’s swing. His triangle never moves out of center so he enjoyed the great consistently of a constant radius. Another great point you raise is his club head sets up a good distance behind the ball helping him to pre set his load into right side but really helped to fully release his right side because he “felt” the need to catch up to the ball. Yes, arms way off body and disconnected but keeps those wrists tight to keep his triangle .The final point is that like most good players, he starts his downswing with lower body before the club is fully set at the top producing the lag effect as a result of loading his shaft. Thanks Adam, all insightful points.
Hi Adam, my Moe story was watching him hit golf balls for a hour at a driving range just north of Toronto. They were all straight shots with hardly no dispersion . The amazing thing he did at the end of the session, he his Driver using a small Coke bottle as his tee! Incredible shots with the Coke bottle never moving or breaking. Moe was one of a kind . 😃🇨🇦
I had the pleasure of watching Moe hit golf balls several times in the late 80 early 90's when he would spend his winters in Titusville FL at the Canadian PGA owned Royal Oaks CC. One day in particular comes to mind when we watched Moe on the range hit a big bucket of balls. He simply walked up didn't say a word and dumped them on the ground and started hitting with his 7 iron. He was starting to loose distance at that age but he hit every ball within a 15 foot radius just short of the 150 flag. Thanks for the analysis of his swing. I agree with what you say concerning coping Moe's swing. It would require 1000's of golf balls and a lot of dedication to accomplish that goal.
That is crazy! I had no idea he was there. I grew up in the neighborhood just down the hill from Royal Oaks, took lessons on that golf course, and used to sneak in at night to fish.
Adam, thank you for this insightful video. I think you’re mostly correct in your observations and commentary. I adopted the single plane swing from Graves Golf which follows Moe Norman’s swing. I’m 58 and made this change 2 years ago after playing with a conventional swing for the past 50 years. I am a 12 handicap, average player. From my experience, I can consistently hit the ball farther and straighter with the single plane swing. For me, the challenge is in the set up, ball position and getting back to the ball at impact. The other, which you pointed out, is the rotation and staying low (side bend) through impact although probably not that much different than the conventional swing. I think removing the angles at address makes it easier to be consistent. I too could benefit from turning the brain off. Thanks again for your great content!
I only found your site a couple of weeks ago, and I have been more informed than watching various “Instructors “ over the last 4 years. Thank you and don’t change your format, my ball striking has transformed into a repeatable swing with great gains.
Moe said 4 things about the club behind - he can't get out of the line, he is already into his swing, he can't pick up his club and he doesn't need that foot - GENIUS!!!
True! Moe never seems to get in his own way. He had the unique ability to tee the ball, square the clubface and.hit the ball, repetitively. As Moe replied when asked how he became the greatest ball-striker, ”Hard work, you can’t buy it!” He had a strong sense of self-belief and he could ”talk the talk and walk the walk.” It is said, ”actions speak louder than words.” Moe Norman backed his words with repetitive actions. RIP Moe...
@@Scratchgolfacademy Thanks, Adam. Always a pleasure to have a chance to applaud Moes’ greatness. I look forward to watching more GGA videos that continually promote the single plane swing🏌️♂️👍
I've never seen you before, but I've watched videos of Moe Norman for hours, which is why your video came across my feed. In the end, I summed up my overview of Moe's swing like you have, years ago. No one has mentioned the "autism" aspect of his personality, but it's prominent. I say however, his swing is much less complicated, technically sound, and proven. Did I mention that it's much easier to repeat consistently which is our goal, in short, it's a "winner" for folks who get distracted by the overwhelming dos-and-don'ts of contemporary teaching? BTW, if you're into golf, you might notice that one of the top Golfers in the world today is a young man named Bryson DeChambeau who happens to have a very UPRIGHT swing.
I think it’s great that you chose to share a different way to swing the golf club. I liked your comment that one should study what they all have in common. It seems to me that he has to start differently because he ends differently. His left leg is bent at impact and it seems like today’s players post up the left leg. Also he keeps his right foot planted because he hits into his left bended leg rather than today’s swing. Thanks again!
Great context Tiger Woods said Moe could hit the ball better than ANYONE else nothing more to be said.If Moe was starting g out today with all that we know about Autism and Aspergous no telling g what he might have accomplished on the PGA tour.
The one thing I copied that helped me was Chris DeMarco’s claw grip when putting. Thanks for respecting Moe’s style whilst adding the caution about adopting swing style.
I recently tried replicating Moe's swing style and it amazed me. Even with the foot gap between the club and the ball at address. The main thing in Moe's stance is his high left shoulder and low right shoulder with a lean favorable to the right. He even mentions this Adam.
Best analysis and explanation of Mo I've read or heard... And I've studied the guy. He did all the right things amazingly well and those quirks of set up really cannot be copied. They were all his and made him feel comfortable over the ball. If you stand like Mo you won't hit it like Mo. You need to do all of the loading and coiling like all the greats.
Life of Tom. You need to refer to Todd Graves who is widely considered the expert on Moe's swing and the only one who truly understands it. Adam I would have no problem recommending your videos with regards to the conventional swing just to be clear so I am not having a dig at you in any way. I appreciate you are not holding yourself out as an expert on moes swing but rather just making some observations. Many Thanks. Tim
Thanks Tim, and if we disagree on this one a little that's fine. I believe that if Moe's precise method was in face the key to somehow unlock great ball striking it would have been copied a lot. Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Yes we will have to agree to disagree as they say !. But genuinely I think if you spent a little time with Todd Graves you might be pleasantly surprised as to just how repeatable Moe's golf swing is. Moe's genius was his mind....not his athletic capabilities. His range of motion capabilities were no different from the average human being. All the best, Tim
Fantastic video,Moe was definitely a machine.I agree with you about taking away the good things he did in his swing,while not exactly having that amount of reach for the ball.What I take from Moe is the short back swing,bracing my lead knee directly over my front foot and letting the arms and club rush back to square in front of my body,and keeping my back foot locked into the ground post impact. I've had my best rounds and straightest shots using those key elements from Moe.
I agree that with the outstretched arms, the clubs can feel heavy. I disagree on how it affects the back. It's much easier on the back than a conventional swing because the spine is not getting anywhere near the twist and compression. I started using the Moe swing in 2005 because it was much easier on my back and continue to use it, free of back pain. I dropped about 12 strokes the first year I started with it. 95 average to 83. I've gotten a bit better over the years with it. It definitely works.
Adam, first I think you have one of the top 3 or 4 sites re golf tips; you explain very well in clear non techno speak, so keep it up. Your comment about Moe not getting in his own way due to his Asbergersr disease (I believe it was diagosed later on) is extremely important! I'm a 2.5 index but so often overthink shots in a critical situation, or iffy lie, etc. and completely get in my own way and mishit horribly, as do many tour pros, and he lacked that negative component. A thought to work on! Cheers from Canada.
As always, great content Adam. Your instruction is always great and to the point. Nice to see some analysis on Moe’s swing and the differences to the conventional swing. Must have been pretty cool to see him hit balls back in the day, unique individual for sure.
Brilliant and respectful analysis, Moe was truly great, but I make you right on your analysis, that he just did the typically great things that many great players do. Moe mastered golf his way 👍
You nailed it on why Moe Norman’s swing is so hard for the average golfer to copy. You stand so far away from the ball, with your hands so high, that your wrists have a hard time working correctly, it is difficult to generate power and return to the same place every time. Thanks for the great review.
@@Scratchgolfacademy Thank you, Adam! Tried Moe’s swing 1st at Natural Golf and several times at Graves Golf. Never got the results I hoped for. Have had a SPS since birth. Now I get results, at age 82, because I dumped the far away stance and the stiff wrists and trail foot on the ground approach. I step into the shot now, hit it well and agree with everything you said. You are spot on, Mister!
@@pulldpin67 Like Bryson, if you like Normans method you just swing faster....I have played with a lot of people that play the single plane style (as we have a former Natural Golf instructor near us) and most of them are over 60 and do the motion of the swing nice but never just let go....it is like they are doing the positions all the time and not swinging the club...I did that for a few years until one day I just said swing hard and my distances all came back as before going to the single plane.
This is one of the best videos I've watched via your content. It illustrates the best part of golf....any swing can work. I can't remember who said it... but I recall the "it's in the dirt" if you wanna learn the game. It will always echo through my mind.... and it is truly amazing what you discover about your body, mechanics of your brain to limbs combo, and how much you understand the word "PATIENCE". Anger will get you. It's inevitable. How we handle the anger is what separates the scientist from the show off. If you're not thinking "what did I do there that caused that issue? How do I make it so I can repeat the same swing every time? It takes a lot of mental power that's acquired by hitting many, many, golf balls. Alignment sticks are great and all, but I feel having a target is the main priority. As you do in any other sport, you pick your target, and you adjust to hit that target repeatedly. If you are self-aware and always looking for improvement, you eventually end up with a comfortable sequence from setup to hitting that allows you to start playing the game of golf. We all know it becomes a whole new world after you become comfortable and repeatable with a swing. Management, loft, wind, etc. Incredible game for the mind and spirit. I have a short backswing, but my accuracy is not matched locally. I've played against really amazing players and I am always toe to toe with them. Mostly because of my 100 and in game/putting. I've spent many hours hitting every club from 4 iron - 60 degree from 100 and in. Paramount if you want to really develop feel and "touch". A lot of the times on really big greens, I'll use a 4 iron from the fringe or just off. Something about the control of speed and keeping it low that makes it incredibly easy for me to navigate the terrain/undulations on the green. Great stuff!!
Moe figured out what worked best for him. Genius, I have tried this but it's sadly not for me I feel it causes me back pain as I have a bad back. I think if younger people tried it I see no reason it wouldn't work. Give it a try or you will never know. Thanks for looking at Moe's swing Adam.
When I started playing golf I copied MO because it looked like a simpler swing. I did pretty good with it for awhile. The system that I used was called Natural Golf. Thanks for your thoughts.
Respectfully I disagree ,Moes swing is and will always be easier on the vac than the conventional setup up. I been doing it for 10 years now and I always had back pain when using conventional setup. The science behind the swing makes total sense when you look at it. More people should adopt this swing since it is def more of a natural hitting motion with a stick.
The 2nd reason he was so great, “didn’t let himself get in his own way”. I like that. Very interesting. Just a hacker here but played around with a ‘mind clearer’ move (think Wolff) before the swing that seemed to have a desirable effect. Getting all those swing thoughts out of the way and just hitting the ‘play’ button. Thanks for the insight!
I think there is more to understanding the mechanics of Moe's swing than he is given credit for by others. Yes I agree he hit lots of range balls but it was because he just enjoyed hitting them not because he was perfecting his swing.
I think the 1 thing he had that nobody disputes is a tremendous talent....golfers who have idiosyncrasies in their swings tend to have a "natural" talent that often came about by them finding their own way to hit the ball...like furyk or bubba or moe...they probably aren't the best to imitate as most people usually dont have that much talent and often you couldnt do their "moves" if you had a different body shape/type. Alot of great stories follow moe and people often talk about his "secret"..i think.moe himself said he just hit more balls than anyone else.
The secret to the dead straight ball striking of both Hogan and Norman was setting up at address so their wrists would ‘waggle’ and lock down in full ulnar deviation as the face swung closed and square to the target line which stops the hands but causes the club head to keep moving bending the shaft slightly forward causing the compressed ball to jump off of it faster that with a conventional swing which picks up the ball at a constant speed and carries it while it compressing and releasing and not fully pulling the wrists down until well after impact. I suspect Hogan might have copied that action, which is similar to chopping a V in a log at a 45° angle with an axe from a trick shot artist named Harry Frankenberg, aka ‘Count Yogi” while re-building his swing after his 1948 accident.
Interesting, I have a tendency to be to get in front of the ball with woods, I may have a go at sticking the ball on the outside of my foot at the range 🙏🏻 thanks
How's your left knee, having to straighten all the time to get body out of the way so your club can swing through? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the pivot(s) in the swing and why your technique is better than that single-plane thing Moe used.
The great majority of elite players have a fairly straight left knee by mid through swing, this includes players with a spectrum of swing planes (Hogan all the way to Couples). I don’t think it’s hard on the knee Best, Adam
Jeff, It appears to me (in general) to be much the same impact plane as traditional swing, but a different address position, one that matches the impact. I’m generally in favor of the traditional stuff Best, Adam
He biggest difference in Moe and conventional is Moe simplified the most important part of the swing.. impact. His set up and distance from the ball was a natural and mechanically easy way to strike a ball with a stick.
Entertaining and free, better then the $47 slice fix everyone is currently selling NOTE be for warned you pay $47 for the slice fix and they sign you up for their monthly plan, 14 days free and then they will charge you so much a month till you get a hold of them and cancel.....they know a certain % of people will miss that and get in at least a month or two before they catch it.....at least 3 ""Top Instructors"" pushing those things right now.....
Moe described his golf swing as a vertical drop and a horizontal pull. He didn't mention rotation. Don't you think with his image of the swing you would set up further behind the ball (than for rotation) ?
Honestly Thomas, his descriptions of what he was doing weren’t very accurate . That’s no slight on Moe, it’s just in the pre video (and other concrete feedback) era all a player had to go on was what they felt and thought Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Spot on. If you listen to Butch Harmon, Jimmy Ballard and Jim McClean most of their players in past really did not know what they did. They would feel certain things but feel is misleading. Hal Sutton felt that his left elbow pierced his heart on the downswing. Jack Nicklaus talked about keeping his head still when he moved it right as part of his pre swing. It sounds crazy but most great teachers will flat out tell you most of the players don’t necessarily get what they did.
Not sure Simeon. He was pretty automatic for sure, somewhat older when I was around him. I got to be around Nick Price and Nick Faldo a good bit in their heydays, both awfully good too Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Did Mo setup similarly for his irons Adam? I imagine he didn’t play the ball beyond his front foot, but relative to other players was it still a long way forward in the stance?
One thing overlooked is Moe was left handed and played right handed thus he had learned to guide that club and use the power of his lead side without the right side over powering his swing. So if your learning a swing, like Moe's, you got to keep from letting the trail (right arm for right player) overpowering that swing and turning that club face or holding open that club face.
Adam, In baseball we teach kids to put the ball on the tee, take it away and return it on the same plane to hit the ball. If we were to take that tee and cut it down to the bottom we can do the same! Every conventional golfer "RISES" up 4 inches from address to impact, there is NO need to do that! Shaft plane is vitally important, Hogan even talked about it staying under the glass! The reason MOE"S far from the ball is to give himself room to hit the ball, a conventional golfers rises up to GET out of his own way! Infact if you go back and look at the "old" golfers etc, Walter Hagen was more of a single planer!
JD Thanks for the comment. Clearly there are different ways to do it, each has positives and negatives. Nicklaus, Woods etc didn’t set up that way, or return driver to its set up shaft plane. We each have to find what works for us Best, Adam
To me the conventional swing is much harder on the back since you have to stand up on downswing and your spine ends up compressing. I have a 21 year old coach and a 70 something coach and they both had back problems and they taught me using conventional swing. Moe’s swing takes time but is definitely more accurate and easier on the body. Both back and knees.
With conventional swing you have to stand up. It’s biomechanics. Look at every good conventional striker of the ball…their hands rise at impact, and to do so their spine goes up.
@@Scratchgolfacademy the “standing up” comes from the need to create space due to being too close to the ball with a conventional swing. Moe went down to the ball versus up and away from the ball. Every conventional swinger of the club pulls away from the ball in some fashion
If Moe moved laterally then however much he moved the club path moved laterally the same amount less up and down and more along the club path to the target. The main problem with setting up with the club head that far behind the ball is it's hard to have a good and consistent rhythm. Reaching problems with back pain ensuing can be adjusted by setting with the hips much deeper. Especially upper back pain. The whole point of his swing is to minimize variables to permit the least curving of shots and maximize consistent staring path of shots on the target line. All cocking and uncocking occurs from the momentum of club head weight with zero application of hand force.
IMHO, the key to his swing was getting his body out of the way so he could bring the flexed right arm through the impact zone. Arms up and out at setup. Big slide from the top. Ball way forward to force a late release / strike.
You can't make the assumption that Moe's swing would be difficult for "most" people. Have most people tried it and failed? Todd Graves, who studied under Moe's tutelage swings exactly like Moe and teaches Moe's swing to others with success.
@@Scratchgolfacademy unless taught correctly the golf swing is very difficult for most people to learn. Whether it’s Moe’s or what the tour pros do. It’s all challenging.
Moe's swing is specifically designed to NOT hurt your back as the Hogan swing does. Look at the number of PGA Tour players who have back issues swinging the Hogan way; tons of them. Everyone swinging like Moe had zero back issues.
Shot my best round copying Moe 75 shot high 70’s but left the game went back conventional can’t break 80 or 90 most times 94 it’s due to the BLOW UP holes which I avoided with Moe I wanted more distance but sacrificed at least 2 blow up holes which ruined the score I suggest anyone experiment and see WHAT FITS YOU! happy golfing 😊
Hello Adam, are you any relation of Sir Joseph Bazalgette, the famous 19th century engineer who completely rebuilt central London along the river Thames and created Victoria Embankment? A new embankment is also being built along the Thames on the south side of the river and will be named 'The Bazalgette Embankment' in honour of Joseph Bazalgette. If you are related you'll have to come over when it's completed in 2024 and take a look!
Thanks for the note. He was my great great grandfather, my middle name is Joseph. Excited to hear that he is still being honored, and hope I get a chance to see it. All the best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy That's amazing, thanks for letting me know! For those interested the £7 billion project in London will be completed by 2024 and the Bazalgette Embankment will be a very exciting addition to central London. Enjoy your videos by the way, still trying to get my handicap down below 10!
I love watching moe swing. This guy and everyone else including Todd graves have no idea what moe or Ben hogan was doing. All there opinions mean nothing
4:16 This isn’t the single plane address. What you’ve done is taken a conventional address and reached. Of course you can’t start and impact there. You are missing 1)Side bend 2)pivot point (not club head pointing at belly, but rather under lead side rib cage) 3) trail arm non rotational grip. If you drew a line at where I referenced at the time stamp through the handle it would go through your belly button. For moe it goes through the pivot point. All this means is that your analysis of the single plane swing is based off a a false address and the address IS the aspect that separates moes swing from the conventional.
@@Scratchgolfacademy I know I am, but I’m just saying as someone who has exclusively studied the single plane swing, if you don’t have the address looking exactly like moe, then what ever motion analysis you do is virtually worthless. The address is the factor that separated moe from the conventional swing, not his movement. Yes, his motion was slightly different but only as an effect of his address. When you say he “stayed too low” (hurt the back) through the shot that’s because you’re analyzing it through a conventional address, basically the club pointing at the belly button and the arms unnaturally out. That’s not where moe was, he had an extremely specific address which was utterly crucial. Too many people overlook his address and try and analyze his swing. You can only analyze moes swing once you put your body in the position at address where it is at impact, your body isn’t there and so the analysis you go through is a faulty analysis and isn’t a proper reflection of moes swing. Moes swing consisted of impacting on the exact plane of address.. and if your line of address is different than impact, which it is, then your analysis is faulty and not a reflection of what moe did. He didn’t become the best ball striker by not being exact. That being said I love the moe content. Rip
No worries. I think where we disagree is this. There are examples of many multiple major winners that had different looks, to some extent, almost all were different to Moe. The club and body move a great deal from address back to impact. Certainly from a pure geometry perspective some positions may be more precise or repeatable, but in the real world of different golfers, with different body styles, different athletic instincts etc there are just no real life absolutes (other than lag, weight left etc). My goal in these videos is to give general insights and opinions to the average golfer, then help them with applications to their game. No worries, I appreciate that you've studied Moe, and are passionate about the game. Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy I hear you, that’s the thing about the sps though, if the clubs fit the person then the person by virtue of sidebend and distance from the ball will be geometrically put in the exact position was was in. With this increased bend and lead side relationship with the club handle, the golfer can move through the swing through various repeatable positions not by manipulation but by restriction and therefore freedom of the body’s motion. Ie you can’t move you elbow backwards, Moe’s swing operates in a similar way but the address must be correct. A lot of people think the sps is through the arms when it’s not and when they try and swing by just stretching the arms out it fails.
@@Thegooob95 Agree totally. Unless you have Moes address position you have nothing in terms of trying to replicate his swing. Everything interrelates in Moes swing - You cannot just take pieces of the swing. Its all or nothing. If you don't get the address right then you cant get the backswing right, if you don't get the backswing right then you can transition, if you cant transition you cant get the downswing right etc etc.
Honestly the obvious thing people don't bring up with moe...everyone wants to say he had a "secret" in his golf swing and he knew something everyone else didnt...but Honestly, I think moe was just wildly talented...you can't copy swings like this just like you can't copy John daly, bryson, furyk, or any other bizarre swing...those guys are freaks of nature...conventional is easiest for most people
Give us a little more backstory to your mini tour life, etc. Fascinating examination of Norman. I heard he did not hit the ball far, although it was online. Care to comment on that?
Thanks Mark I saw him when he was somewhat older. He didn’t hit it especially far, but very solidly. He won many times in Canada, and set a ton of course records, so he must have had reasonable length in his prime Best, Adam
I agree with Adam. Moe’s swing is totally idiosyncratic and not a good idea to copy. And Moe is not one plane. He takes the club to the inside and then loops it out as he comes down. And he does not hold off wrist pronation after impact. The right hand quickly passes the left after impact and the butt end of his shaft points to his belly button which affirms this fact. Those who promote Moe’s technique often mis construe the facts.
He was one of the only people that really “owned” his swing. Ben Hogan had a lot of help from Sam Byrd when he first came on tour , going from fighting a hook to a steady slide right. There is a nice featured piece in this year’s Master’s program on Sam Byrd and Bobby Jones stating he is”the best driver of the ball I have seen”. Hogan adopted a third swing after his car accident because he lost effective use of his legs. That is the version of Hogan’s swing the Stack and Tilt folks reference.
What surprised me now after 15 years of not playing golf was watching all these pros apparently hopping near impact. In the past you couldn't see all these videos and instruction on RUclips, it didn't exist. So it puzzled me why they did that. Then I saw Moe Norman and then all the detail from Todd Graves and it made sense that there are two planes that nearly all golfers are taught. A lot of people testify that they have more back problems with the traditional golf swing. Take Lexi Thompson. I have to wonder if her back is going to have serious problems as she gets older. The single plane swing makes a lot more sense to me, less to go wrong. Less hitting left of the fairway and right.
Paul, thanks for the comment. In the pre-video era golfers made a lot of claims. Their swings are likely more similar than their personal descriptions of their swings. Best, Adam
Legend has it he walked off Augusta during the Masters because play was to slow. I don’t know if that is true. I do know that Moe was definitely a very unique personality. He was a legend around the golf courses in Toronto.
As mentioned, he really didn't have the emotional-mental capacity for the tour. I have heard two possible explanations: 1. He may have been autistic. Not really diagnosed at the time. (Remember, he was born in 1929) 2. I believe he was hit by a car while tobogganing (sledding) when he was quite young and may have suffered brain damage as a result. Any interviews you see him in, you can tell he was...colorful. But the greats, including Tiger, recognize his ball striking ability as legendary. In 1995, when Moe was 65, Titleist started paying him $5000 a month for the rest of his life, just to make sure he was looked after. Just a gentle, special man.
Hmmm. Yeah, interesting, but let’s not get carried away. This is a golfer who played briefly on the US PGA tour without any distinction. He withdrew after shooting two high scores in his first US Masters and failed to make the cut in his second attempt. Small pond, big fish. Big pond, tiddler.
It’s hard to say with him. He had success in Canada, not sure if his mental issues (whatever one might call it) were what mainly held him back. You make a fair point though
Adam with all due respect you really do not understand Moe’s swing. You might contact Todd Graves of Graces golf academy aka Little Moe and get the proper understanding. His awing is not what you’re depicting. In some ways you are close but in other way way off. I have been swinging like Moe for 20 years after struggling with the impossible conventional swing for three decades.Single plane is orders of magnitude easier and better. Best Chuck Carnevale
Impossible conventional swing? Single plane easier and better? Big assumptions fella... Guess we should tell all the legends of the game to give their trophies back, they achieved the impossible!!! You sound like an infomercial for Graves Golf..... lmao
I think this video does an amazing job taking some of the good ball Striking aspect of Moe’s mechanics without trying to convert people to a one plane swing. Chuck is a little sensitive apparently, don’t think this video hasn’t helped a lot of us taking some great bullet points.
Lmao!!! This guy says “may work for Moe” over and over while ignoring it works for too many people to list. I’d take Moe’s swing over his any day, not to mention Moe would’ve cleaned his clock 100 out of 100 times before the back nine. Be interesting to see him talk smack about Bryson DeChambeau’s swing and how he wouldn’t suggest it. 🤣
Clearly Mo was an elite player, I’m a good player but not in his league. Your premise, however, that you have to be equal in skill with someone in order to make comments is ridiculous. These videos are intended to offer general insights to everyday golfers. No worries, you’re entitled to your opinion
Moe’s swing is actually way easier on your back because it does not compress your spine. The top of the grip is in your heal pad and not the palm. You need to understand the relationship between the set up and grip.
Mark, Clearly we'll have to disagree. Having taught golf full time for over 30 years I've had some experience with grips. Many, if not most golfers grip up in the palm (high up on the heel pad), even with a conventional set up. No worries, Adam
I use single plain Moe swing and there is no conventional to it. The conventional swing has to many moving parts. What your showing doesn't look like Moes.
I’m the photographer that took that video of Moe in 1987 at Oakdale Golf Club in Toronto. It’s too bad you can hear the sound of the ball being hit by his persimmon driver. Repeatedly sounded like a gun being fired. He squared the club face every time and the ball was never off line.
Thanks for the comment Howie!
All the best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Hi Adam I sent you a spectacular still photograph of Moe taken that day when I played with him at Oakdale. Remarkable position that are a testament to his fairly conventional position at impact. We should all be in those positions!
Sent to your info link, Howie
Thanks Howie, I’ll try to get it
Thank you for shooting that awesome video!
I decided to set up about a foot and a half behind with my driver and 3 wood, about a foot behind my irons, and thought about Moe and I made five pars in a row today. Never changing. Totally stopped hitting it fat and topping it. Thank you Moe.
Nice going Bruce!
Thanks Adam. As everyone knows, Moe was an incredible ball striker. He could drive it through a doughnut hole from 250 yds when 250 meant something. Don’t think Moe gets all the credit he deserves because the technology and the ball actually spun a lot more while far less forgiving. All great points regarding Moe’s swing. His triangle never moves out of center so he enjoyed the great consistently of a constant radius. Another great point you raise is his club head sets up a good distance behind the ball helping him to pre set his load into right side but really helped to fully release his right side because he “felt” the need to catch up to the ball. Yes, arms way off body and disconnected but keeps those wrists tight to keep his triangle .The final point is that like most good players, he starts his downswing with lower body before the club is fully set at the top producing the lag effect as a result of loading his shaft.
Thanks Adam, all insightful points.
Thanks for the note Richard, glad you liked the video
Best, Adam
Hi Adam, my Moe story was watching him hit golf balls for a hour at a driving range just north of Toronto. They were all straight shots with hardly no dispersion . The amazing thing he did at the end of the session, he his Driver using a small Coke bottle as his tee! Incredible shots with the Coke bottle never moving or breaking. Moe was one of a kind . 😃🇨🇦
Pretty amazing Anthony!
Best, Adam
My Uncle Les Kisko, used to hit balls at that same driving range, he says Moe would sleep in his car in the parking lot
I had the pleasure of watching Moe hit golf balls several times in the late 80 early 90's when he would spend his winters in Titusville FL at the Canadian PGA owned Royal Oaks CC. One day in particular comes to mind when we watched Moe on the range hit a big bucket of balls. He simply walked up didn't say a word and dumped them on the ground and started hitting with his 7 iron. He was starting to loose distance at that age but he hit every ball within a 15 foot radius just short of the 150 flag. Thanks for the analysis of his swing. I agree with what you say concerning coping Moe's swing. It would require 1000's of golf balls and a lot of dedication to accomplish that goal.
Thanks for sharing the comment Randy
All the best, Adam
That is crazy! I had no idea he was there. I grew up in the neighborhood just down the hill from Royal Oaks, took lessons on that golf course, and used to sneak in at night to fish.
I bet the sound of impact was insane..just from the videos they have a certain "thwack!" sound to them.
Adam, thank you for this insightful video. I think you’re mostly correct in your observations and commentary. I adopted the single plane swing from Graves Golf which follows Moe Norman’s swing. I’m 58 and made this change 2 years ago after playing with a conventional swing for the past 50 years. I am a 12 handicap, average player. From my experience, I can consistently hit the ball farther and straighter with the single plane swing. For me, the challenge is in the set up, ball position and getting back to the ball at impact. The other, which you pointed out, is the rotation and staying low (side bend) through impact although probably not that much different than the conventional swing. I think removing the angles at address makes it easier to be consistent. I too could benefit from turning the brain off. Thanks again for your great content!
Thanks very much Joe
Best, Adam
I only found your site a couple of weeks ago, and I have been more informed than watching various “Instructors “ over the last 4 years.
Thank you and don’t change your format, my ball striking has transformed into a repeatable swing with great gains.
Thanks for the kind comment, and glad you’ve made progress
All the best, Adam
Moe said 4 things about the club behind - he can't get out of the line, he is already into his swing, he can't pick up his club and he doesn't need that foot - GENIUS!!!
👍
True! Moe never seems to get in his own way. He had the unique ability to tee the ball, square the clubface and.hit the ball, repetitively. As Moe replied when asked how he became the greatest ball-striker, ”Hard work, you can’t buy it!” He had a strong sense of self-belief and he could ”talk the talk and walk the walk.” It is said, ”actions speak louder than words.” Moe Norman backed his words with repetitive actions. RIP Moe...
Thanks for the comment
All the best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Thanks, Adam. Always a pleasure to have a chance to applaud Moes’ greatness. I look forward to watching more GGA videos that continually promote the single plane swing🏌️♂️👍
I've never seen you before, but I've watched videos of Moe Norman for hours, which is why your video came across my feed. In the end, I summed up my overview of Moe's swing like you have, years ago. No one has mentioned the "autism" aspect of his personality, but it's prominent. I say however, his swing is much less complicated, technically sound, and proven. Did I mention that it's much easier to repeat consistently which is our goal, in short, it's a "winner" for folks who get distracted by the overwhelming dos-and-don'ts of contemporary teaching? BTW, if you're into golf, you might notice that one of the top Golfers in the world today is a young man named Bryson DeChambeau who happens to have a very UPRIGHT swing.
Thanks for the comment
Bryson is also very strong. I think that may be a prerequisite to play championship golf with an upright swing.
I think it’s great that you chose to share a different way to swing the golf club. I liked your comment that one should study what they all have in common. It seems to me that he has to start differently because he ends differently. His left leg is bent at impact and it seems like today’s players post up the left leg. Also he keeps his right foot planted because he hits into his left bended leg rather than today’s swing. Thanks again!
Thanks for the comment
All the best, Adam
Great context Tiger Woods said Moe could hit the ball better than ANYONE else nothing more to be said.If Moe was starting g out today with all that we know about Autism and Aspergous no telling g what he might have accomplished on the PGA tour.
The one thing I copied that helped me was Chris DeMarco’s claw grip when putting. Thanks for respecting Moe’s style whilst adding the caution about adopting swing style.
Thanks for the comment Jim
Best, Adam
This a fantastic video on "how" to study swings! I love that it shows more of how then what
Thanks!
I recently tried replicating Moe's swing style and it amazed me. Even with the foot gap between the club and the ball at address. The main thing in Moe's stance is his high left shoulder and low right shoulder with a lean favorable to the right. He even mentions this Adam.
Thanks for the comment
Best analysis and explanation of Mo I've read or heard... And I've studied the guy. He did all the right things amazingly well and those quirks of set up really cannot be copied. They were all his and made him feel comfortable over the ball. If you stand like Mo you won't hit it like Mo. You need to do all of the loading and coiling like all the greats.
Life of Tom. You need to refer to Todd Graves who is widely considered the expert on Moe's swing and the only one who truly understands it. Adam I would have no problem recommending your videos with regards to the conventional swing just to be clear so I am not having a dig at you in any way. I appreciate you are not holding yourself out as an expert on moes swing but rather just making some observations. Many Thanks. Tim
Thanks Tom, I appreciate the comment.
Best, Adam
Thanks Tim, and if we disagree on this one a little that's fine.
I believe that if Moe's precise method was in face the key to somehow unlock great ball striking it would have been copied a lot.
Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Yes we will have to agree to disagree as they say !. But genuinely I think if you spent a little time with Todd Graves you might be pleasantly surprised as to just how repeatable Moe's golf swing is. Moe's genius was his mind....not his athletic capabilities. His range of motion capabilities were no different from the average human being. All the best, Tim
Thanks Tim
Fantastic video,Moe was definitely a machine.I agree with you about taking away the good things he did in his swing,while not exactly having that amount of reach for the ball.What I take from Moe is the short back swing,bracing my lead knee directly over my front foot and letting the arms and club rush back to square in front of my body,and keeping my back foot locked into the ground post impact. I've had my best rounds and straightest shots using those key elements from Moe.
Thanks for the comment Marybeth
Best, Adam
I agree that with the outstretched arms, the clubs can feel heavy. I disagree on how it affects the back. It's much easier on the back than a conventional swing because the spine is not getting anywhere near the twist and compression. I started using the Moe swing in 2005 because it was much easier on my back and continue to use it, free of back pain. I dropped about 12 strokes the first year I started with it. 95 average to 83. I've gotten a bit better over the years with it. It definitely works.
Fair enough
Thanks, Adam
I got to hang around with Moe in the 90'sd amazing man, amazing swing and he did some amazing things with the ball.
Glad you got to do that Allen.
All the best, Adam
Adam, first I think you have one of the top 3 or 4 sites re golf tips; you explain very well in clear non techno speak, so keep it up. Your comment about Moe not getting in his own way due to his Asbergersr disease (I believe it was diagosed later on) is extremely important! I'm a 2.5 index but so often overthink shots in a critical situation, or iffy lie, etc. and completely get in my own way and mishit horribly, as do many tour pros, and he lacked that negative component. A thought to work on! Cheers from Canada.
Thanks for the comment (I get in my own way a lot too!)
All the best, Adam
Loved the video though. Moe was a legend and you added some great insight.
ThAnks very much Jeff
Best, Adam
This was an EXCELLENT video.
Cheers
F
Thanks very much Fred
Best, Adam
As always, great content Adam. Your instruction is always great and to the point. Nice to see some analysis on Moe’s swing and the differences to the conventional swing. Must have been pretty cool to see him hit balls back in the day, unique individual for sure.
Thanks PG. Yes, I’m fortunate to have had that opportunity
All the best, Adam
Great content really like your channel thank you
Thanks Melissa
Ayy! It my boy Adam! I love you lessons man. Keep it up!
Thanks very much Michael
Best, Adam
Brilliant and respectful analysis, Moe was truly great, but I make you right on your analysis, that he just did the typically great things that many great players do. Moe mastered golf his way 👍
Thanks for the comment Duncan
You nailed it on why Moe Norman’s swing is so hard for the average golfer to copy. You stand so far away from the ball, with your hands so high, that your wrists have a hard time working correctly, it is difficult to generate power and return to the same place every time. Thanks for the great review.
Thanks Lou, glad you liked the video
All the best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Thank you, Adam! Tried Moe’s swing 1st at Natural Golf and several times at Graves Golf. Never got the results I hoped for. Have had a SPS since birth. Now I get results, at age 82, because I dumped the far away stance and the stiff wrists and trail foot on the ground approach. I step into the shot now, hit it well and agree with everything you said. You are spot on, Mister!
Thanks Lou
Disagree.... If you do Moe's the right way.... you hit more straight... and don't lose that much power.... His style has changed my golf in a big way.
@@pulldpin67 Like Bryson, if you like Normans method you just swing faster....I have played with a lot of people that play the single plane style (as we have a former Natural Golf instructor near us) and most of them are over 60 and do the motion of the swing nice but never just let go....it is like they are doing the positions all the time and not swinging the club...I did that for a few years until one day I just said swing hard and my distances all came back as before going to the single plane.
This is one of the best videos I've watched via your content. It illustrates the best part of golf....any swing can work.
I can't remember who said it... but I recall the "it's in the dirt" if you wanna learn the game.
It will always echo through my mind.... and it is truly amazing what you discover about your body, mechanics of your brain to limbs combo, and how much you understand the word "PATIENCE".
Anger will get you. It's inevitable. How we handle the anger is what separates the scientist from the show off. If you're not thinking "what did I do there that caused that issue? How do I make it so I can repeat the same swing every time? It takes a lot of mental power that's acquired by hitting many, many, golf balls. Alignment sticks are great and all, but I feel having a target is the main priority. As you do in any other sport, you pick your target, and you adjust to hit that target repeatedly. If you are self-aware and always looking for improvement, you eventually end up with a comfortable sequence from setup to hitting that allows you to start playing the game of golf. We all know it becomes a whole new world after you become comfortable and repeatable with a swing. Management, loft, wind, etc. Incredible game for the mind and spirit.
I have a short backswing, but my accuracy is not matched locally. I've played against really amazing players and I am always toe to toe with them. Mostly because of my 100 and in game/putting. I've spent many hours hitting every club from 4 iron - 60 degree from 100 and in. Paramount if you want to really develop feel and "touch". A lot of the times on really big greens, I'll use a 4 iron from the fringe or just off. Something about the control of speed and keeping it low that makes it incredibly easy for me to navigate the terrain/undulations on the green.
Great stuff!!
Thanks very much
All the best, Adam
Terrific video as usual, Adam. Wonderful analysis and insight. You're the best.
thanks very much!
Best, Adam
Moe figured out what worked best for him. Genius, I have tried this but it's sadly not for me I feel it causes me back pain as I have a bad back.
I think if younger people tried it I see no reason it wouldn't work. Give it a try or you will never know. Thanks for looking at Moe's swing Adam.
Thanks for the comment Billy
When I started playing golf I copied MO because it looked like a simpler swing. I did pretty good with it for awhile. The system that I used was called Natural Golf. Thanks for your thoughts.
Thanks Rick
All the best, Adam
Fantastic video Adam!!
Thanks very much Jeff
Best, Adam
Respectfully I disagree ,Moes swing is and will always be easier on the vac than the conventional setup up. I been doing it for 10 years now and I always had back pain when using conventional setup. The science behind the swing makes total sense when you look at it. More people should adopt this swing since it is def more of a natural hitting motion with a stick.
Thanks for the comment
The 2nd reason he was so great, “didn’t let himself get in his own way”. I like that. Very interesting. Just a hacker here but played around with a ‘mind clearer’ move (think Wolff) before the swing that seemed to have a desirable effect. Getting all those swing thoughts out of the way and just hitting the ‘play’ button. Thanks for the insight!
Thanks for the comment Bill
Best, Adam
I think there is more to understanding the mechanics of Moe's swing than he is given credit for by others. Yes I agree he hit lots of range balls but it was because he just enjoyed hitting them not because he was perfecting his swing.
Thanks for the comment Shawn
Best, Adam
I think the 1 thing he had that nobody disputes is a tremendous talent....golfers who have idiosyncrasies in their swings tend to have a "natural" talent that often came about by them finding their own way to hit the ball...like furyk or bubba or moe...they probably aren't the best to imitate as most people usually dont have that much talent and often you couldnt do their "moves" if you had a different body shape/type.
Alot of great stories follow moe and people often talk about his "secret"..i think.moe himself said he just hit more balls than anyone else.
Thanks for the comment Adam, I agree
Great video!
Thanks very much John
The secret to the dead straight ball striking of both Hogan and Norman was setting up at address so their wrists would ‘waggle’ and lock down in full ulnar deviation as the face swung closed and square to the target line which stops the hands but causes the club head to keep moving bending the shaft slightly forward causing the compressed ball to jump off of it faster that with a conventional swing which picks up the ball at a constant speed and carries it while it compressing and releasing and not fully pulling the wrists down until well after impact. I suspect Hogan might have copied that action, which is similar to chopping a V in a log at a 45° angle with an axe from a trick shot artist named Harry Frankenberg, aka ‘Count Yogi” while re-building his swing after his 1948 accident.
Thanks for the comment Teddy
Best, Adam
I have seen your name pop up in comment sections. You have interesting things to say. The " trebulay " is one of them.
He was the best! Thanks for this.👍
Glad you liked it
Best, Adam
Interesting, I have a tendency to be to get in front of the ball with woods, I may have a go at sticking the ball on the outside of my foot at the range 🙏🏻 thanks
Hope you make progress Ben
How's your left knee, having to straighten all the time to get body out of the way so your club can swing through? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the pivot(s) in the swing and why your technique is better than that single-plane thing Moe used.
The great majority of elite players have a fairly straight left knee by mid through swing, this includes players with a spectrum of swing planes (Hogan all the way to Couples). I don’t think it’s hard on the knee
Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Thanks for taking the time to reply. I respect that and appreciate it a lot.
👍
So Adam , what is your take on the Single Plane swing that Bryson uses?)
Jeff,
It appears to me (in general) to be much the same impact plane as traditional swing, but a different address position, one that matches the impact. I’m generally in favor of the traditional stuff
Best, Adam
This man presents his thoughts on Moe's setup and swing clearly and succinctly and without hyping his own instructional methods
Thanks very much Bob
All the best, Adam
Moe Norman couldn't get through the first stage of today's PGA Tour School let's not kid ourselves
@@keviniwankow8294 You're so right! I'm sure you would agree, neither Could Ben Hogan or Sam Snead!!
He biggest difference in Moe and conventional is Moe simplified the most important part of the swing.. impact. His set up and distance from the ball was a natural and mechanically easy way to strike a ball with a stick.
Thanks for the comment
Entertaining and free, better then the $47 slice fix everyone is currently selling NOTE be for warned you pay $47 for the slice fix and they sign you up for their monthly plan, 14 days free and then they will charge you so much a month till you get a hold of them and cancel.....they know a certain % of people will miss that and get in at least a month or two before they catch it.....at least 3 ""Top Instructors"" pushing those things right now.....
Thanks Gordon
Best, Adam
Moe described his golf swing as a vertical drop and a horizontal pull. He didn't mention rotation. Don't you think with his image of the swing you would set up further behind the ball (than for rotation) ?
Honestly Thomas, his descriptions of what he was doing weren’t very accurate . That’s no slight on Moe, it’s just in the pre video (and other concrete feedback) era all a player had to go on was what they felt and thought
Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Spot on. If you listen to Butch Harmon, Jimmy Ballard and Jim McClean most of their players in past really did not know what they did. They would feel certain things but feel is misleading. Hal Sutton felt that his left elbow pierced his heart on the downswing. Jack Nicklaus talked about keeping his head still when he moved it right as part of his pre swing. It sounds crazy but most great teachers will flat out tell you most of the players don’t necessarily get what they did.
Adam , Moe's impact position reminds me of Arnold Palmer.
Nice comment Jack, I agree
Best, Adam
Great video Adam. Was he the best ball striker you ever saw? If not, who?
Not sure Simeon. He was pretty automatic for sure, somewhat older when I was around him. I got to be around Nick Price and Nick Faldo a good bit in their heydays, both awfully good too
Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy interesting, thanks
Superb analysis Adam. Thanks for this great video 👍 👏
You’re welcome Cameron.
Thanks, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy Did Mo setup similarly for his irons Adam? I imagine he didn’t play the ball beyond his front foot, but relative to other players was it still a long way forward in the stance?
One thing overlooked is Moe was left handed and played right handed thus he had learned to guide that club and use the power of his lead side without the right side over powering his swing. So if your learning a swing, like Moe's, you got to keep from letting the trail (right arm for right player) overpowering that swing and turning that club face or holding open that club face.
Thanks for the comment Mark
Adam, In baseball we teach kids to put the ball on the tee, take it away and return it on the same plane to hit the ball. If we were to take that tee and cut it down to the bottom we can do the same! Every conventional golfer "RISES" up 4 inches from address to impact, there is NO need to do that! Shaft plane is vitally important, Hogan even talked about it staying under the glass! The reason MOE"S far from the ball is to give himself room to hit the ball, a conventional golfers rises up to GET out of his own way! Infact if you go back and look at the "old" golfers etc, Walter Hagen was more of a single planer!
JD
Thanks for the comment. Clearly there are different ways to do it, each has positives and negatives. Nicklaus, Woods etc didn’t set up that way, or return driver to its set up shaft plane. We each have to find what works for us
Best, Adam
To me the conventional swing is much harder on the back since you have to stand up on downswing and your spine ends up compressing. I have a 21 year old coach and a 70 something coach and they both had back problems and they taught me using conventional swing. Moe’s swing takes time but is definitely more accurate and easier on the body. Both back and knees.
I don’t agree with you Rob, but that’s OK. Thanks for the comment
Best, Adam
You don’t have to stand up on the downswing
With conventional swing you have to stand up. It’s biomechanics. Look at every good conventional striker of the ball…their hands rise at impact, and to do so their spine goes up.
@@Scratchgolfacademy the “standing up” comes from the need to create space due to being too close to the ball with a conventional swing. Moe went down to the ball versus up and away from the ball. Every conventional swinger of the club pulls away from the ball in some fashion
@@openstenosis exactly what I am trying to say.
Oh sure! As he would say. Super confident in his abilities and his unique swing.
If Moe moved laterally then however much he moved the club path moved laterally the same amount less up and down and more along the club path to the target. The main problem with setting up with the club head that far behind the ball is it's hard to have a good and consistent rhythm. Reaching problems with back pain ensuing can be adjusted by setting with the hips much deeper. Especially upper back pain. The whole point of his swing is to minimize variables to permit the least curving of shots and maximize consistent staring path of shots on the target line. All cocking and uncocking occurs from the momentum of club head weight with zero application of hand force.
Thanks Robert. He was a golf genius, and like many other geniuses he had some quirks.
Best, Adam
IMHO, the key to his swing was getting his body out of the way so he could bring the flexed right arm through the impact zone. Arms up and out at setup. Big slide from the top. Ball way forward to force a late release / strike.
Thanks for the comment
Great
Thanks Djelal
You can't make the assumption that Moe's swing would be difficult for "most" people. Have most people tried it and failed? Todd Graves, who studied under Moe's tutelage swings exactly like Moe and teaches Moe's swing to others with success.
Fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion on Moe’s swing. It always generates interest
@@Scratchgolfacademy unless taught correctly the golf swing is very difficult for most people to learn. Whether it’s Moe’s or what the tour pros do. It’s all challenging.
说话就像唱歌，PERFECT
Thanks very much Mike
Best, Adam
Moe's swing is specifically designed to NOT hurt your back as the Hogan swing does. Look at the number of PGA Tour players who have back issues swinging the Hogan way; tons of them. Everyone swinging like Moe had zero back issues.
Adam Razzle-dazzle jet swings like an LPGA pro wow
That works for me
Are there many elements of Moes' swing used by Bryson? It's hard to tell! 😉
Neil,
I’d say lagging the club etc, but they don’t look similar in plane at all
Best, Adam
Heres a comparison on Moe and Bryson
ruclips.net/video/nPuw-jgqujo/видео.html
Wide Stance and lateral move into right side.
Magic
Thanks Neil.
Best, Adam
Bryson’s swing is the Single Plane swing taught in the teaching series by the same name
If you notice Moe’s left elbow was pointed to the target not at the ground
Thanks for the comment
Shot my best round copying Moe 75 shot high 70’s but left the game went back conventional can’t break 80 or 90 most times 94 it’s due to the BLOW UP holes which I avoided with Moe I wanted more distance but sacrificed at least 2 blow up holes which ruined the score I suggest anyone experiment and see WHAT FITS YOU! happy golfing 😊
Hello Adam, are you any relation of Sir Joseph Bazalgette, the famous 19th century engineer who completely rebuilt central London along the river Thames and created Victoria Embankment? A new embankment is also being built along the Thames on the south side of the river and will be named 'The Bazalgette Embankment' in honour of Joseph Bazalgette. If you are related you'll have to come over when it's completed in 2024 and take a look!
Thanks for the note. He was my great great grandfather, my middle name is Joseph.
Excited to hear that he is still being honored, and hope I get a chance to see it.
All the best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy That's amazing, thanks for letting me know! For those interested the £7 billion project in London will be completed by 2024 and the Bazalgette Embankment will be a very exciting addition to central London. Enjoy your videos by the way, still trying to get my handicap down below 10!
Thanks!
He has said that no one should ever copy his swing. It's his swing
I agree, but it’s interesting to look at, and there are elements of it golfers can learn from
I love watching moe swing. This guy and everyone else including Todd graves have no idea what moe or Ben hogan was doing. All there opinions mean nothing
Thanks for watching the video
4:16
This isn’t the single plane address. What you’ve done is taken a conventional address and reached. Of course you can’t start and impact there. You are missing
1)Side bend
2)pivot point (not club head pointing at belly, but rather under lead side rib cage)
3) trail arm non rotational grip.
If you drew a line at where I referenced at the time stamp through the handle it would go through your belly button. For moe it goes through the pivot point. All this means is that your analysis of the single plane swing is based off a a false address and the address IS the aspect that separates moes swing from the conventional.
You're entitled to your opinion.
All the best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy I know I am, but I’m just saying as someone who has exclusively studied the single plane swing, if you don’t have the address looking exactly like moe, then what ever motion analysis you do is virtually worthless. The address is the factor that separated moe from the conventional swing, not his movement. Yes, his motion was slightly different but only as an effect of his address. When you say he “stayed too low” (hurt the back) through the shot that’s because you’re analyzing it through a conventional address, basically the club pointing at the belly button and the arms unnaturally out. That’s not where moe was, he had an extremely specific address which was utterly crucial. Too many people overlook his address and try and analyze his swing. You can only analyze moes swing once you put your body in the position at address where it is at impact, your body isn’t there and so the analysis you go through is a faulty analysis and isn’t a proper reflection of moes swing. Moes swing consisted of impacting on the exact plane of address.. and if your line of address is different than impact, which it is, then your analysis is faulty and not a reflection of what moe did. He didn’t become the best ball striker by not being exact. That being said I love the moe content. Rip
No worries. I think where we disagree is this. There are examples of many multiple major winners that had different looks, to some extent, almost all were different to Moe. The club and body move a great deal from address back to impact. Certainly from a pure geometry perspective some positions may be more precise or repeatable, but in the real world of different golfers, with different body styles, different athletic instincts etc there are just no real life absolutes (other than lag, weight left etc).
My goal in these videos is to give general insights and opinions to the average golfer, then help them with applications to their game.
No worries, I appreciate that you've studied Moe, and are passionate about the game.
Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy I hear you, that’s the thing about the sps though, if the clubs fit the person then the person by virtue of sidebend and distance from the ball will be geometrically put in the exact position was was in. With this increased bend and lead side relationship with the club handle, the golfer can move through the swing through various repeatable positions not by manipulation but by restriction and therefore freedom of the body’s motion. Ie you can’t move you elbow backwards, Moe’s swing operates in a similar way but the address must be correct. A lot of people think the sps is through the arms when it’s not and when they try and swing by just stretching the arms out it fails.
@@Thegooob95 Agree totally. Unless you have Moes address position you have nothing in terms of trying to replicate his swing. Everything interrelates in Moes swing - You cannot just take pieces of the swing. Its all or nothing. If you don't get the address right then you cant get the backswing right, if you don't get the backswing right then you can transition, if you cant transition you cant get the downswing right etc etc.
"Unconventional" who determines that. I spent 2 years on Moe's swing, he was way far ahead of his time. Copy Moe exactly! It works.
Unconventional just refers to lacking convention, or not conforming to the norm. Doesn’t mean it’s inferior
Honestly the obvious thing people don't bring up with moe...everyone wants to say he had a "secret" in his golf swing and he knew something everyone else didnt...but Honestly, I think moe was just wildly talented...you can't copy swings like this just like you can't copy John daly, bryson, furyk, or any other bizarre swing...those guys are freaks of nature...conventional is easiest for most people
Thanks Mark, I agree.
Best, Adam
Give us a little more backstory to your mini tour life, etc. Fascinating examination of Norman. I heard he did not hit the ball far, although it was online. Care to comment on that?
Thanks Mark
I saw him when he was somewhat older. He didn’t hit it especially far, but very solidly. He won many times in Canada, and set a ton of course records, so he must have had reasonable length in his prime
Best, Adam
@@Scratchgolfacademy So: hit the ball solidly and don't self interfere! Sounds like a winning tattoo!
moes swing speed at 64 was 108 .titleist tested him in 1994.most of his shots had zero side spin.unreal
As one of the best 80 yr old golfers in the world I would love to play against him if he was still alive
In Moe's own words. His accuracy secret. Swing with the Left Arm.. Period.
Hogan said he wished he had ‘two right arms’ so feels vary from player to player. Thanks for the comment just the same
Todd Graves spent many years with Moe and has a channel on youtube for everyone that is interested in a real deep dive in Moe's swing.
Thanks Jimmy
Best, Adam
I agree with Adam. Moe’s swing is totally idiosyncratic and not a good idea to copy. And Moe is not one plane. He takes the club to the inside and then loops it out as he comes down. And he does not hold off wrist pronation after impact. The right hand quickly passes the left after impact and the butt end of his shaft points to his belly button which affirms this fact. Those who promote Moe’s technique often mis construe the facts.
Thanks for the comment
Your swing looks exactly like Moe
That’s kind Kevin, but I’m not quite in his league
Best, Adam
Best intro ever
Thanks
Great story about moe in the 80s
Thanks Greg
Nice to hear from you
Best, Adam
No One can do what Moe Norman did every single shot per round.
He was a one of a kind
Best, Adam
He was one of the only people that really “owned” his swing. Ben Hogan had a lot of help from Sam Byrd when he first came on tour , going from fighting a hook to a steady slide right. There is a nice featured piece in this year’s Master’s program on Sam Byrd and Bobby Jones stating he is”the best driver of the ball I have seen”. Hogan adopted a third swing after his car accident because he lost effective use of his legs. That is the version of Hogan’s swing the Stack and Tilt folks reference.
011 Boyd River
What about Moes Grip!!!
I remember he had oversized grips, and heavy callouses on his hands.
Best, Adam
Hitting down the line is his intention and where he directs the release is my guess
What surprised me now after 15 years of not playing golf was watching all these pros apparently hopping near impact. In the past you couldn't see all these videos and instruction on RUclips, it didn't exist. So it puzzled me why they did that. Then I saw Moe Norman and then all the detail from Todd Graves and it made sense that there are two planes that nearly all golfers are taught. A lot of people testify that they have more back problems with the traditional golf swing. Take Lexi Thompson. I have to wonder if her back is going to have serious problems as she gets older. The single plane swing makes a lot more sense to me, less to go wrong. Less hitting left of the fairway and right.
Thanks for the comment Robert
Grant Horvat from goodgood sent me
Hello
Grant is not with Good Good, and hasn't been for about a year.
Moe Norman s swing is the opposite of Ben hogans. Ben advocated keeping your elbows pinned to your hips….. moe has his hands waaay out in front of him
Paul, thanks for the comment. In the pre-video era golfers made a lot of claims. Their swings are likely more similar than their personal descriptions of their swings.
Best, Adam
If this guy was so legendary why didn’t he dominate on any tour he was on?
He won many times in Canada, and set many course records, but I think didn’t have the emotional-mental capacity for full time PGA Tour play
Best, Adam
Legend has it he walked off Augusta during the Masters because play was to slow. I don’t know if that is true. I do know that Moe was definitely a very unique personality. He was a legend around the golf courses in Toronto.
As mentioned, he really didn't have the emotional-mental capacity for the tour. I have heard two possible explanations: 1. He may have been autistic. Not really diagnosed at the time. (Remember, he was born in 1929) 2. I believe he was hit by a car while tobogganing (sledding) when he was quite young and may have suffered brain damage as a result. Any interviews you see him in, you can tell he was...colorful. But the greats, including Tiger, recognize his ball striking ability as legendary. In 1995, when Moe was 65, Titleist started paying him $5000 a month for the rest of his life, just to make sure he was looked after. Just a gentle, special man.
It doesn’t look like Moe move more than Adam Scott. Their hips were similar.
Thanks for the comment
Best, Adam
Hmmm. Yeah, interesting, but let’s not get carried away. This is a golfer who played briefly on the US PGA tour without any distinction. He withdrew after shooting two high scores in his first US Masters and failed to make the cut in his second attempt.
Small pond, big fish. Big pond, tiddler.
It’s hard to say with him. He had success in Canada, not sure if his mental issues (whatever one might call it) were what mainly held him back.
You make a fair point though
I want to send you my swing
If you join scratchgolfacademy.com you have that option.
Thanks, Adam
Razzle-dazzle
If I could take away anything from Moe Norman's swing it would be there is more than one way to skin a 🐈.
Fair enough Shane
Why is Moe Norman slow motion 7% Norman and 93% this guy in the blue sweater?
Ben,
It’s a swing analysis (see video title), there are plenty of videos of his swing online if that’s what you want
No worries
Best, Adam
Adam with all due respect you really do not understand Moe’s swing. You might contact Todd Graves of Graces golf academy aka Little Moe and get the proper understanding. His awing is not what you’re depicting. In some ways you are close but in other way way off. I have been swinging like Moe for 20 years after struggling with the impossible conventional swing for three decades.Single plane is orders of magnitude easier and better. Best Chuck Carnevale
No worries Chuck, we can disagree. I see most of the great things in his swing as overlapping with other great swings in the game
Best, Adam
Impossible conventional swing? Single plane easier and better? Big assumptions fella... Guess we should tell all the legends of the game to give their trophies back, they achieved the impossible!!! You sound like an infomercial for Graves Golf..... lmao
@@macdaddyblues1 {
I think this video does an amazing job taking some of the good ball Striking aspect of Moe’s mechanics without trying to convert people to a one plane swing. Chuck is a little sensitive apparently, don’t think this video hasn’t helped a lot of us taking some great bullet points.
Would just be interested in see u and tod have a convo on video.
Lmao!!! This guy says “may work for Moe” over and over while ignoring it works for too many people to list. I’d take Moe’s swing over his any day, not to mention Moe would’ve cleaned his clock 100 out of 100 times before the back nine. Be interesting to see him talk smack about Bryson DeChambeau’s swing and how he wouldn’t suggest it. 🤣
Clearly Mo was an elite player, I’m a good player but not in his league. Your premise, however, that you have to be equal in skill with someone in order to make comments is ridiculous.
These videos are intended to offer general insights to everyday golfers.
No worries, you’re entitled to your opinion
It would be nice to “shut off” the brain while swinging.
I hear you there Ron!
Best, Adam
Like the notion of copying the good stuff that the great golfers do, and don't try to imitate the idiosyncracies.
Thanks for the comment
Best, Adam
Moe’s swing is actually way easier on your back because it does not compress your spine. The top of the grip is in your heal pad and not the palm. You need to understand the relationship between the set up and grip.
Mark,
Clearly we'll have to disagree. Having taught golf full time for over 30 years I've had some experience with grips. Many, if not most golfers grip up in the palm (high up on the heel pad), even with a conventional set up.
No worries, Adam
Moe was not autistic. Just a bit socially awkward. I'd call him a genius.
You’re entitled to your opinions
Moe had been in an auto accident when he was very young. He had a car run over his head and that is probably the reason for his odd mental behavior.
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This fella gets out of breath after 1 shot 😂😂
I could be in better shape
Best, Adam
I use single plain Moe swing and there is no conventional to it. The conventional swing has to many moving parts. What your showing doesn't look like Moes.
It’s Ok to disagree Mike, I’m just pointing out the similar motion patterns Moe had with other players
Best, Adam