Sean, in my opinion your channel is far and away the best in the O gauge field. I appreciate the professional demeanor you maintain ( no “happy talk” or ridiculous or misleading thumbnails). In a hobby that is riddled with quality control issues, you offer a pragmatic approach to solving the many issues those in the hobby face. I am always amazed by some very popular O gauge channels which present a fantasy world in which there are never ANY problems out of the box with these very expensive items. Thanks for your honesty and inspiration.
Appreciate that. I like to pass on information to help people because RUclips is where I go to get help too! I like to be straight forward. Praise if its great and call it out if it's not. Other people are more worried about clicks and likes and not offending the manufacturers.
I have used thick super glue (Bob Smith BSI) in situations like this for insulation. Stay away from tape- the glue will smear and get everywhere. Alot of 3-rail switches have rail height variations to detract shorts. BTW that ring on the wheel that's shorting is the tire. I love your layout. It's so neat and detailed with excellent scenes. Thanks for your video's I really appreciate your work!😊
Wow this is a great FYI. Been considering picking up one of these Greenbriers for our layout and so this is great to know. All of my track and switches are MTH Realtracks but still really appreciate your work on this. This hobby is so expensive and yes there are always issues you have to figure out solutions on. Liked this so much I subscribed! So thank you very much
Apparently, this was an issue when MTH released these. So same issue just resurrected under Lionel name now that they bought the tooling. We are talking about such a small difference (1mm) that makes or breaks it. So, you may not have any issue depending if the wheels are pressed on just a hair more, which of course can vary by each engine.
@@seanstraindepot Exactly. Every one of these engines have all their own little personality traits and issues I swear to God lol. I could have two seemingly identical engines but each one could have slight differences in terms of how they operate through switches for example. Finding great channels like yours is such a great recourse for dealing with these issues .
I noticed my Greenbrier shorted on one of my switches as well. This was some great info. Ill try some rubber paint on the switches to see if it keeps them from touching.
It is such a small tolerance, probably 1mm, but the wheel tires just stick out a little too far and touch the center rail on opposite direction. I used some polyurethane on the rail end and it worked perfect and super durable.
I saw it happen in your review video. The entire train stuttered. Can you just paint the end of that center rail where it meets the plastic spacer with clear nail polish?
If the tape doesn't work out (you can try 3M Kapton tape), you can try grinding down the metal on the switch and if you grind too far and there is a gap you can fill it in with two-part epoxy and grind it down carefully until it is smoothe and flush with the plastic part and the rest of the rail , Loctite 151 works well but it takes overnight to dry and the epoxy method will take a lot of time especially if you have a lot of switches, Sorry you had to trouble two engines in a row , the Strassburg and now the Greenbrier. I guess if we didn't like the maintenance and the troubleshooting, we wouldn't have stayed with this hobby as long as we did.
I'm going to try frog snot and keep trying until I find a permanent solution. It's actually 3 engines. I just bought an L1 Mikado, where the wheels were falling off the tender and the sounds are DOA. I returned it this time, but the shop was giving me a hassle trying to get me to send it to Lionel. I'm kind of over the spending of thousands on stuff broken on arrival. Unfortunately, it means I can't buy from smaller shops anymore, because a lot of them don't accept returns for Lionel stuff anymore. Then I am stuck. So, I have to buy only from places like Nicholas Smith where I can exchange/return. I tried to support the smaller shops, but it's getting to be too big a money loss since they won't deal with it.
@@seanstraindepot The hell of it is for what these articles cost people are entitled to expect top-quality and reliability right out of the box, not after a return to "whoever" the importer is for warranty repairs. Note I said "importer," these things aren't made here in the US. "They" had better get serious about quality control or kiss their market share goodbye, if not their companys future. Anyway, I've got all the current production things I want, from now on it's post-wars, MPC, and LTI classics.
That’s sad that this is happening, Sean. You have a small fortune wrapped up in your models and you’d think they’d all get this figured out by testing on every type of track on the market so the customer does have to go through this after spending close to a grand or better on a locomotive. Good thing you still have microscopic eyes that caught this problem, now it’s an easy fix, times 20+ 😱😱 and those switches are what, $50 or more per? I feel your pain. Ron
@@seanstraindepot too me, it’s like they don’t test them enough like they did back in the 90’s. I’m considering make a video on this topic down the line. I’ve seen everyone else on RUclips make theirs. I guess I might have to make one myself too.
One thing that still has me wondering, In your pictures it only looks like the arcing is happening in one area of the wheel rotation. That is, it is not randomly all the way around the circumference. Is that true? If it is only happening in that portion that would indicate on the wheels on front axle has some run out in it.
You could try putting traction tires on the forward axle and maybe that would raise the wheel up high enough so it doesn't,t short. Also you would have four wheel drive. Good luck.
Sean.. when I watch videos on the tv I can't respond only like and subscribe. Watching this video I decided to log on to the computer so I could comment. Instead of modifying 21 switches ..what if you protected the locomotive laying on its side.. hooked it up to run..and using a fine model file.. bevel the offending edge slightly giving clearance to stop making contact with the switch where it is shorting?
Or put an hard insulating coating on that small area of wheel. Think they make some clear epoxy, may work. Todays industrial epoxies are outstanding material, what they can do! Thought, fixing wheel vs all your switches
Last comment, micrometer out, measure wheel at contact point for variances in thickness, along with distance at maximum play out from reference point. Last measurement compare to other engines, Lionel spec. on design. Hope this is a little help. Les
Sean I can't think of anything you could put on that rail end that's going to be a permanent fix, a long-term fix might be the best you can do. Possibly a split section of shrink tubing glued to that section of rail may be a good semi-permanent fix. Shrink tubing would be thick enough to insulate that section of rail and thin enough not to cause tracking issues. 23 switches? Good Lord! You could do what the real railroads did in the old days with certain types of locomotives and restrict your Greenbrier to certain areas of the layout? It'll save you modifying those 23 switches! On the other hand you don't have to do them all at once.
Im having a similar issue concerning fastrack switches. Not shorting or arching but just plain stopping and shutting down. The layout is still hot, but the loco (MTH) hits a sweet spot and power is lost so it shuts down due to power loss. At speeds of 12 or more (numeric reading on the DCS speed dial), it hesitates but keeps going. At cruise speed (20 or more), youd never know there was a problem. My theory, i say again, theory, is that my swiches being back to back with no 1 1/8 piece separation causes the pickup wheels at both ends to hit a dead spot scenario and coupled with 11 or under speed, the engine is without power long enough to shut down. Thing is, it only happens to one engine on one set of switches. You have to see it to fully understand whats going on. Way too many variables to keep explaining
From your presentation the problem is the engine’s wheels not the switch. Use a different engine designed for these switches. Poorly designed or manufactured engine since others do not have this problem. I would send problem engine down the road since this is an issue of one one.
Good grief! One shouldn’t have to modify their switches for a single engine. I would worry that modifying the switches might have a negative effect on other equipment.
It seems rather ridiculous that no one tested these engines on various types of tracks, especially on Their own brand of track! You should not have to refit almost every engine you get, especially at over 1K a pop. They should hire you for quality control
I wish they would, I would test the crap out of everything! lol. This is the 3rd legacy engine with issues in a row. They are taking the joy out of buying a new engine.
just saying in 2 rail the tolerances are tighter, wheels narrower, thus the need for broader curve and turnouts. To re engineer a large three rail to fit on tighter curves and turnouts is to loosen up tolerances, add over size flanges and blind some of the drivers. You cant fight physics! As was suggested the loco was designed to run on a solid rail system not the Lionel track. the logical fix would be to cut out where the rail is arcing, dam the side up and pour in an epoxy or maybe fit in a piece of styrene . to use apiece of tape or some other insulator over it could cause the loco to jump up or simply wear out with use . fyi I was in 3 rail @@PhilBender612
Sean, in my opinion your channel is far and away the best in the O gauge field. I appreciate the professional demeanor you maintain ( no “happy talk” or ridiculous or misleading thumbnails). In a hobby that is riddled with quality control issues, you offer a pragmatic approach to solving the many issues those in the hobby face. I am always amazed by some very popular O gauge channels which present a fantasy world in which there are never ANY problems out of the box with these very expensive items. Thanks for your honesty and inspiration.
Appreciate that. I like to pass on information to help people because RUclips is where I go to get help too! I like to be straight forward. Praise if its great and call it out if it's not. Other people are more worried about clicks and likes and not offending the manufacturers.
I have used thick super glue (Bob Smith BSI) in situations like this for insulation. Stay away from tape- the glue will smear and get everywhere. Alot of 3-rail switches have rail height variations to detract shorts. BTW that ring on the wheel that's shorting is the tire. I love your layout. It's so neat and detailed with excellent scenes. Thanks for your video's I really appreciate your work!😊
Thanks Sean
Wow this is a great FYI. Been considering picking up one of these Greenbriers for our layout and so this is great to know. All of my track and switches are MTH Realtracks but still really appreciate your work on this. This hobby is so expensive and yes there are always issues you have to figure out solutions on. Liked this so much I subscribed! So thank you very much
Apparently, this was an issue when MTH released these. So same issue just resurrected under Lionel name now that they bought the tooling. We are talking about such a small difference (1mm) that makes or breaks it. So, you may not have any issue depending if the wheels are pressed on just a hair more, which of course can vary by each engine.
@@seanstraindepot Exactly. Every one of these engines have all their own little personality traits and issues I swear to God lol. I could have two seemingly identical engines but each one could have slight differences in terms of how they operate through switches for example. Finding great channels like yours is such a great recourse for dealing with these issues .
I just tapped the rail top down a bit and it fixed my same issue. Different train same brand MTH and fastrack. Was not all my switches just one.
I noticed my Greenbrier shorted on one of my switches as well. This was some great info. Ill try some rubber paint on the switches to see if it keeps them from touching.
It is such a small tolerance, probably 1mm, but the wheel tires just stick out a little too far and touch the center rail on opposite direction. I used some polyurethane on the rail end and it worked perfect and super durable.
Some guys use frog snot instead of traction tires. Maybe that would work here. You could use a small brush to apply. When it wears out re-apply. ??
I saw it happen in your review video. The entire train stuttered. Can you just paint the end of that center rail where it meets the plastic spacer with clear nail polish?
I'm going to try frog snot and keep trying until I find a permanent solution.
You could possibly try liquid electrical tape. It can be messy. Good luck with the fix!
I'm going to try frog snot and keep trying until I find a permanent solution.
@@seanstraindepot I didn’t know what frog snot was until today. How well does it work?
WOuld you do Lionel 5449.
Iam having the same Problem.And more electricity problems
If the tape doesn't work out (you can try 3M Kapton tape), you can try grinding down the metal on the switch and if you grind too far and there is a gap you can fill it in with two-part epoxy and grind it down carefully until it is smoothe and flush with the plastic part and the rest of the rail , Loctite 151 works well but it takes overnight to dry and the epoxy method will take a lot of time especially if you have a lot of switches, Sorry you had to trouble two engines in a row , the Strassburg and now the Greenbrier. I guess if we didn't like the maintenance and the troubleshooting, we wouldn't have stayed with this hobby as long as we did.
I'm going to try frog snot and keep trying until I find a permanent solution. It's actually 3 engines. I just bought an L1 Mikado, where the wheels were falling off the tender and the sounds are DOA. I returned it this time, but the shop was giving me a hassle trying to get me to send it to Lionel. I'm kind of over the spending of thousands on stuff broken on arrival. Unfortunately, it means I can't buy from smaller shops anymore, because a lot of them don't accept returns for Lionel stuff anymore. Then I am stuck. So, I have to buy only from places like Nicholas Smith where I can exchange/return. I tried to support the smaller shops, but it's getting to be too big a money loss since they won't deal with it.
@@seanstraindepot The hell of it is for what these articles cost people are entitled to expect top-quality and reliability right out of the box, not after a return to "whoever" the importer is for warranty repairs. Note I said "importer," these things aren't made here in the US. "They" had better get serious about quality control or kiss their market share goodbye, if not their companys future.
Anyway, I've got all the current production things I want, from now on it's post-wars, MPC, and LTI classics.
That’s sad that this is happening, Sean. You have a small fortune wrapped up in your models and you’d think they’d all get this figured out by testing on every type of track on the market so the customer does have to go through this after spending close to a grand or better on a locomotive.
Good thing you still have microscopic eyes that caught this problem, now it’s an easy fix, times 20+ 😱😱 and those switches are what, $50 or more per? I feel your pain. Ron
Have you Thought about a two part epoxy instead of tape?
I would agree with that after you grind put that corner of the center rail
I was thinking to try a little frog snot, that stuff is super hard to get off once dried.
Oh boy, sometimes is challenging when history starts to repeat itself.
Yeah, Lionel is 0/3 for legacy engines I bought recently. The older legacy stuff never had issues. Not sure what's happening with them anymore.
@@seanstraindepot too me, it’s like they don’t test them enough like they did back in the 90’s. I’m considering make a video on this topic down the line. I’ve seen everyone else on RUclips make theirs. I guess I might have to make one myself too.
Do you think that rubber cement would work better than tape?
I'm going to try frog snot and keep trying until I find a permanent solution.
They make a liquid electronic tape that I have used on wiring that may work for you
I would check the gauge on all the drive wheels. It’s possible somethings out of gauge and that’s kicking the wheel out too far.
I don't really have the tools to do that. Or a way to press the wheels on further.
@@seanstraindepot it does require specialized tools. You’d probably need to find someone who has experience doing it.
One thing that still has me wondering, In your pictures it only looks like the arcing is happening in one area of the wheel rotation. That is, it is not randomly all the way around the circumference. Is that true? If it is only happening in that portion that would indicate on the wheels on front axle has some run out in it.
You could try putting traction tires on the forward axle and maybe that would raise the wheel up high enough so it doesn't,t short. Also you would have four wheel drive. Good luck.
Sean.. when I watch videos on the tv I can't respond only like and subscribe. Watching this video I decided to log on to the computer so I could comment. Instead of modifying 21 switches ..what if you protected the locomotive laying on its side.. hooked it up to run..and using a fine model file.. bevel the offending edge slightly giving clearance to stop making contact with the switch where it is shorting?
Iam having the Same problem
Hi, maybe Plasti Dip would work to insulate, it's used to coat handles of pliers.
How about a dap of paint?
Great detective work to ascertain the issue. Maybe a drop of super glue on the rail end?
I'm going to try frog snot and keep trying until I find a permanent solution.
Remember the good ol days of running prewar and postwar Lionel when massive sparking just meant more fun!
Yeah, no it means stalling and blown boards! lol.
Yeah! I sure do! Arcing, sparking, and that lovely smell of ozone!
Possible take wheel off and mill the offending edge back some. Ask Lionel for some milled wheel?
Les
Amateur way run engine in air off track and use abrasive tool against wheel to mill edge down a little. Have vacuum running to collect metal dust???
Or put an hard insulating coating on that small area of wheel. Think they make some clear epoxy, may work. Todays industrial epoxies are outstanding material, what they can do!
Thought, fixing wheel vs all your switches
For epoxy coating test with tape (pin stripping 3M automotive tape available in various widths) on wheel to determine width needed. ???
Observe engine going through a switch on work bench. Idea on what fix needed for wheel correction? Safety factor for all fastrack switch variations.
Last comment, micrometer out, measure wheel at contact point for variances in thickness, along with distance at maximum play out from reference point. Last measurement compare to other engines, Lionel spec. on design.
Hope this is a little help.
Les
Aren't you worried about frying the boards
My FasTrack switches gave me so much grief I boxed them up
👍👍Good video Shawn, that was a nice catch! Just wondering if you could you could use liquid tape or industrial friction tape? Just a thought. 🚂🚂
Sean I can't think of anything you could put on that rail end that's going to be a permanent fix, a long-term fix might be the best you can do. Possibly a split section of shrink tubing glued to that section of rail may be a good semi-permanent fix. Shrink tubing would be thick enough to insulate that section of rail and thin enough not to cause tracking issues.
23 switches? Good Lord! You could do what the real railroads did in the old days with certain types of locomotives and restrict your Greenbrier to certain areas of the layout? It'll save you modifying those 23 switches! On the other hand you don't have to do them all at once.
I'm going to try frog snot and keep trying until I find a permanent solution.
@@seanstraindepot That might work!
I need electrical help
Im having a similar issue concerning fastrack switches. Not shorting or arching but just plain stopping and shutting down. The layout is still hot, but the loco (MTH) hits a sweet spot and power is lost so it shuts down due to power loss. At speeds of 12 or more (numeric reading on the DCS speed dial), it hesitates but keeps going. At cruise speed (20 or more), youd never know there was a problem. My theory, i say again, theory, is that my swiches being back to back with no 1 1/8 piece separation causes the pickup wheels at both ends to hit a dead spot scenario and coupled with 11 or under speed, the engine is without power long enough to shut down. Thing is, it only happens to one engine on one set of switches. You have to see it to fully understand whats going on. Way too many variables to keep explaining
I would use heat shink and glue. No heat.
From your presentation the problem is the engine’s wheels not the switch. Use a different engine designed for these switches. Poorly designed or manufactured engine since others do not have this problem. I would send problem engine down the road since this is an issue of one one.
I would put 2 part epoxy over that spot. It's stronger than tape, and lasts longer than regular glue or liquid epectrical tape
Good grief! One shouldn’t have to modify their switches for a single engine. I would worry that modifying the switches might have a negative effect on other equipment.
It is such a tiny, tiny area where it actually touches (the rim is simply too wide) I think any micro mod wouldn't affect anything else.
Iam having the same problems
Use liquid insulation tape
try coating it with rubber cement or maybe put silicone caulk on it.
Iam having the same problem any solution
It seems rather ridiculous that no one tested these engines on various types of tracks, especially on Their own brand of track! You should not have to refit almost every engine you get, especially at over 1K a pop. They should hire you for quality control
It has always been like that in ,even back in the early day the deferent companies had issues running on the competitions track systems
I wish they would, I would test the crap out of everything! lol. This is the 3rd legacy engine with issues in a row. They are taking the joy out of buying a new engine.
@@seanstraindepot that’s the worst part. Out of box failures can really ruin the experience. These companies need to get it together.
2 rail doesn't do that
Hey! You behave. 😆🤣
just saying in 2 rail the tolerances are tighter, wheels narrower, thus the need for broader curve and turnouts. To re engineer a large three rail to fit on tighter curves and turnouts is to loosen up tolerances, add over size flanges and blind some of the drivers. You cant fight physics! As was suggested the loco was designed to run on a solid rail system not the Lionel track. the logical fix would be to cut out where the rail is arcing, dam the side up and pour in an epoxy or maybe fit in a piece of styrene . to use apiece of tape or some other insulator over it could cause the loco to jump up or simply wear out with use . fyi I was in 3 rail @@PhilBender612
in 3 rail long before 2 rail and converted a number of outside 3 rail loco's to run in inside 3 rail my nightmare were the 1970's Gargrave switches
True, but 2-Rail only has 2/3d's the fun!