I had initially thought that maybe firearms chambered for this round would be able to fire standard .22lr ammo as well as (presumably) higher pressured higher performing .21 sharp ammo. Akin to the .38spl/.357mag. But once I learned that wasn’t the case, you might as well film the forgotten weapons episode now.
I'm not taken in by it,it's not enough gain to justify buying another rifle and the ammo is much more expensive for what it is,there are plenty of 22lr firearms out there and for what it is used for I go back to what I just said it's not enough gain no thank you Winchester this is just about making money like many of the new shiny soyboy man bun cartridges that are out there😢
22 is just too well established for 21 sharp to ever take off in my opinion. If the entire point is to be lead free for regulation, I don’t see why a new caliber is needed….why not just make lead free 22lr? Sure they might be lighter than lead, but still……I don’t see why an entirely new non-compatible calibre is needed (and I don’t see it lasting very long……if it was .25 lead free rim fire, then okay maybe but then….cost would be bad, just like .17 never really took off since it’s cheaper to just use 22lr). You can’t beat 22lr at it’s own game
@@rogerf7265 and those are spendy 22’s. I guess the deal is that because the 22 bullet is actually the same diameter as the case, so they have to actually make the bullet with the base of the bullet necked down to seat in the case. This is easy to do with lead, not so easy with copper, hence, the reason this new cartridge is .21, and not .22.
CCI had the copper 22s as well, but discontinued them. They shot very well out of my Henry. If going lead free was the reason, wouldn’t there be a bunch of lead free options in 21 sharp? I see only one.
@ that’s not what I mean. The Remington electric 700 was a conventional powder propelled lead projectile with a brass case, but it was ignited with an electric charge and not a traditional primer. My point is that it was an innovation that nobody asked for. It was unpopular, short lived, and was only produced for a short time. I think something similar is going to happen to the Winchester 21 sharp cartridge and the rifle.
@ very cool history. Thank you for sharing your knowledge of this. I hope I did not come off as overtly rude. I made a mistake by commenting so quickly and without any depth.
If the rationale for this cartridge is to replace lead ammo, then the only valid tests are with lead-free ammo. MAYBE (and that's a real big 'maybe') other makers will produce better lead-free for this round and give it some life, other wise it's a safe queen. Seems like it would be easier to make an effective, affordable lead-free 22lr. Also, I'd like to see real life numbers on how many predators/scavengers are killed by ingesting animals shot with lead bullets. Not just bodies found with lead in the blood or tissue. The lead bullet or fragments ingested have to be the actual cause of death. My money says the number is low.
It probably doesn't cost much to produce. History is littered with abandoned cartridges. Why they'd try to introduce a new rimfire cartridge doesn't make much sense. If you wanna make a new varmint round, why go with rimfire?
My money says that number is zero. Lead poisoning takes years of exposure, because it's solubility is so low. I do think lead can be a problem in some cases, but they'll poop out the bullet before they absorb any. It's not the same as mercury (but even then, mercury usually takes years of exposure to vapors)
Easier to manufacture lead free with this one. Reason 22 shorts longs n long rifle by design use a healed bullet.bullet exposed if full bore diameter. While can be and are lead free in LR. More trouble to make. This 21 Sharp is like reg cartridge bullet seats inside case,easier to manufacture which is supposed to keep cost down. Lead free 22 lr run 2to 3x regular lead ones.
@wdtaut5650 "Also, I'd like to see real life numbers on how many predators/scavengers are killed by ingesting animals shot with lead bullets." ...... me too. Making cheap bullets and charging more for them (like steel shot for ducks) seems to be the what the real motive is. Nice coincidence that some states want to ban lead...
Or more nonsense paid for by manufacturing companies…. Like lead being the cause of a bird dying from predation and not due to the infinite amount of other factors like wildfires, habitat loss and the infinite amount of lead naturally occurring in a third of the North American continent
The 21 Sharp and the 30 Super Carry have been the dumbest ideas by the firearms industry in recent years. The 350 Legend and the 17 HMR have been the best ideas.
22 LR is for small game which is collected by hunters not left in the field like some medium game carcasses after they have been butchered. So the alleged lead poisoning comes from other sources, not 22 LR lead bullets.
Try explaining that to lawmakers. When they ban lead they rarely make a distinction like that although I seem to recall at least one of the previous lead restrictions excluding 22lr.
@@chucksherronif anything I imagine the lead poisoning is at least partially an excuse to ban a common type of ammunition. Incrementally turning up the temperature on law abiding gun owners
Pretty sure he means the ones that don't get instantly unalived and run off. He don't mean a Condor Flys into your house, takes the change out of your change jar.. bangs your wife then steals your fresh squirrel.... Holy hell.
I think I will have to pass on this one. I have a CZ heavy barreled varmiter with a smoothed trigger and reduced spring that shoots nickle sized groups at 100 yards all day long off a sand bag with standard .22 ammunition right off the shelf. A cheap 3 to 9 Simmons scope is all that I am using on it. I can't see that it will do anything that what I already own won't do. Thanks for the intro to this new round. I'm always fascinated to see what is coming to the market and I thoroughly enjoy your videos and your take on things. Merry Christmas my friend ( whom I have never met, ha ha ) -- den
Just my very humble opinion, but I think this is yet another useless here today gone tomorrow cartridge that can easily be replaced by something much better. 🤷 Great vid dude. Love all your vids.
The 21 sharp is designed for copper ammo.. haven’t tried the 21 sharps but I imagine it would perform better with copper bullets. All that aside I’m still probably never going to buy one lol
i was thinking the same exact thing. i think the explanation, is, potentially, that because the copper is naturally less dense than lead, the barrel has to have a higher twist rate (lower twist ratio higher twist rate) to stabilize a bullet of identical grainage in copper vs lead. periodic table stuff. molecular weights, densities. Startin’ to get into some hardcore chemistry there. I think .22 lr is maybe a 1:10 or 1:12 twist in any standard gun. I did not check but i am theorizing maybe the .21 sharp has to have a 1:8 or 1:7? i dunno, that’s just my theory. because u r exactly correct!! why not simply purchase copper .22lr? there must be a reason.
“the recoil is brutal”😂 haha this is one of my favorite parts of Ron Spomer and it’s always funny because while that one was an obvious one sometimes he does them a bit more subtle and an inevitable commenter will take him seriously and rip him in the comments which always makes it that much more funny. I understand that lots of people catch the joke but hey guys and gals yall know it’s the internet comments section and there’s always someone who doesn’t.
That sounds really good on the copper lead controversy except we've been fishing and fish have been swallowing hooks with lead singers for 100 years and eagles eat them too. Propaganda only don't believe it
@codyg6057 I said controversy not conspiracy you don't see a bunch of dead eagles from eating fish because fish hooks always have a sinker above it that's made out of lead and it's happened the whole time where's the studies show me.
@codyg6057 the propaganda is they make anything happen to do with a gun hard to get, much more expensive and hard to get for the public a different form of gun control.
I fell for the old 5mm Remington rim fire in the 70s. Then Remington abandoned the rife and cartridge, leaving me with essentially a useless gun. So , even though I'm interested in the 21, it brings back bad memories.
The lower the bullet weight the greater the effect of differences in load. Windage is also worse at same bc. If they made a copper jacketed tungsten round it would outperform the 22lr though not by enough to be significant in a hunting use. The better bc possible with this round is not a factor at small game ranges.
Expensive, hard to find ammo which will probably fail and be even more hard to find in the future. They should have put their efforts into developing a better bullet for the 22lr. I understand that the 22 is an outside lubed bullet, but I am sure I could be done.
I used to carry lead pellets, in my mouth. Crimped lead sinkers on my fishing line with my teeth. Carried 50 cal muzzleloader balls in my mouth when competing in Woods Walks. So when is this lead poisoning sposed to kick in. Im 53, and no issues yet. Hmmmmm.
I did the same thing, and I’m closing in on 69 years. This is based on yet another “study’ that most likely received millions in government funding. D.O.G.E can’t come soon enough.
u cannot know about potential lead poisoning unless you get your brain MRId and examined by a neurologist. Lead poisoning is a very long-dated thing, unfortunately, the effects may show up when u r 60, or 70. It is also possible that you never ingested enough lead to get hurt. Both are possible. It would be wise to go to a neurologist or poison control specialist doctor to help you learn, understand, and plan for potential effects which may be yet to come. Doubt you will, but it would be wise. The doctor may say that ah ur fine no worries u never ingested that much. Yes he might say that. Good to go and find out, for your future health and quality of life as a plus50 male in America. Best wishes to you sir!
Ron, I have been watching many of your videos and have found them highly informative. You and I are close in age, and it's good to see you are still enjoying shooting and hunting sports. I love your content. Like you, I love walnut stocks. My last rifle purchase was a Sako 85 270 Winchester with a beautiful walnut stock. I shot sub-moa with factory ammo, which I found remarkable.
Hey Ron, not relted to this video but a while back you asked for test footage on how a flat nose bullet may do more damage than a pointed one of the same caliber. Well i run a youtube channel of my own where i tested this, to amazing effect. I doubt you will see this comment, but ill toss my hat in the ring here. I can not post links, youtube removes those comments. But it is my 'full metal jacket, but deadlier' video that im sure can be found with a simple type in the search bar Love your work, learnd a lot from you
Hopefully Winchester gets both out asap. Ammo n the rifles..took 3 yrs to find a Wildcat n 3 for the Xpert to show up.. n 5 for a magazine.Likely could of found on line but much prefer hands on.
Ron, Ron, Ron, with all due respect. Whom ever dreamt up the 21 Sharp idea and all those connected with it need help. Mental illness is a growing concern worldwide, and this is a sign of just how bad it has become. I have seen all the usual suspects with the sales pitches, but no it's a mind-numbing idea. Why: 22LR is everywhere, it's cheap and fun to shoot, and great for small game. The 21 Sharp is almost identical, but the ammo is expensive. As for the greenies, game has been shot with lead and eaten for centuries, and we are still here. Save your credibility, and just let it go.
Unless there are some major improvements in accuracy and cost, this is one dumb idea! Forget about the velocity. It's worthless and should not be of any consideration unless the round is accurate.
The biggest thing this cartridge has going for it is a future option to make a heavy for caliber, standard/subsonic velocity, higher BC lead core, copper plated or jacketed bullet load that could be fired in a faster twist barrel for the long range/precision rimfire crowd. Adding that would double or triple the demand as current 22 LR heeled projectiles are literally Achilles’ heel of the round for extended ranges.
Ron , it seems possible that in an emergency you can shoot 21 sharp in a 22 lr barrel. Since the 21 sharp is only slightly smaller accuracy wouldnt be affected that much. Hypatheticlly speaking of course. Is that possible ?
Hi Ron. I started not to ask this, since your later groups were a lot better than the first, but I still want your opinion on why companies don't make more precise factory loads for rimfire? I mean, do they think to themselves that oh, it's just rimfire, no one will care.... What are your thoughts? Thanks!
On another video you asked for requests of people to interview. My suggestion would have to come from the _”Wayback Machine”_ - Paul Harrell. I will have to see if you two ever did a video together. *R.I.P. Paul*
If like you said you could get a replacement barrel for a quick change option (10/22 takedown for example) I could see a market for this-especially if the barrels are cheap- but I don’t know how well it’ll actually take off. I don’t know if it’ll survive long enough for the barrels to be produced and become popular.
Well cci used to make a 21gr copper round, but it’s discontinued now. I knew I’ve seen one before. I don’t think making a whole new cartridge just to make it legal to hunt with is a good idea though.
I inherited my grandfather's Remington bolt action rifle. It fires 22 short, 22 long, and 22 long rifle bullets. Until someone makes a 21 that can do the same, I'll wait.
when i was first introduced to this new 21 sharp cartridge my first question was "how long did it manage to stay in production?" i thought it was a long dead cartridge, something that no manufacturer would try in this age. like the 45GAP or the 9mmSuper, or recently the 30SC
I have to wonder what niche they think they can fill. I have been taking game in CA with non lead ammo for years. Never been an issue, and certinly never thought I needed a new rilfle/caliber for small game.
I remember that Remington developed a 5mm bottle necked rimfire cartridge that was discontinued then brought back. Instead of the 21 caliber couldn’t they cast a copper 22 the same way they make the lead bullets?
yeah, I'd be interested if someone made a 10/22 barrel , easy swap, if the price was reasonable, wouldn't have to buy a whole other gun , plus the availability of ammo figures in ! and does anyone else think that the legendary Ron Spomer would mount his scope backwards ????? LOL !!! IT'S EXACTLY HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE !!!!
Hey Ron I noticed you didnt wait 30 seconds for the possible hang fire when you pulled the trigger and it didnt go off. I know you probably assumed that you were out of ammo but its a dangerous habit. Cheers hope to hear your thoughts!
I'm baffled that there still isn't a "true" 22 Magnum cartridge available. I mean a longer 22LR designed to handle higher pressure while offering the possibility of backward compatibility with 22LR, unlike the 22WMR. The cartridge could remain affordable, most 22LR guns wouldn't need to be redesigned beyond a longer chamber, but it would also be a fantastic chambering for revolvers and repeating rifles that could fire the usual 22LR and 22 Short as an added bonus. There was the 22 Extra Long over a century ago but that is long gone, and it wasn't made to handle high pressure loads. I bet the first manufacturer to promote such a cartridge would end up rolling in dough.
I agree with you. I never understood why "in the beggining" they didn't make the 22 lr with a longer case, say .750", instead of .613". A little bit longer case would boost velocity a bit. On a separate note, I also wish the same for the 25 acp. Give it a 3/4" long case, remove some of the rim so it'll feed a little better in a magazine, and make a doublestack ppk, or Browning BDA to fire it. Just a weird dream, I know.
@@JimProfit357 the cci stinger uses a longer case and could be considered a "magnum". you can shoot 22lr and cci stingers from the same firearm also the case has to be soft enough to allow for the rim to be compressed during firing/rimfire. so you cannot increase the pressure without risking case rupture bc its a softer brass
@@allthingsconsidered3211 If they shoot from a standard semi-auto gun, they're not a distinct cartridge, just a hot load. When you look at the length of a 22LR revolver cylinder, you see how much of a waste it is to not have a true next gen cartridge, one that is not only longer but built for significantly superior ballistics. With 22LR becoming what 38SP is to 357. Keeping it rimfire would keep the cost reasonable. One can dream, but it seems like such a no brainer to me.
@ ah i gotcha. a good idea. so you want a really long 22lr? like the length of a 22wmr but with a 22lr bullet diameter? the stinger is only a little longer than a 22lr, like the 357 is to 38sp. not necessarily a hot load. same pressure but more case/powder. its be like loading a 357 to 38sp pressures. (came out in 1975) the 38sp runs at 17.5ksi and the 357 runs at 35ksi. and all rimfires that i know of run at 24ksi
@ Ron Spomer outdoors My father has some field and stream magazines. You may be interested in the range in mid 1940s I don’t want them to go to the dump
Great video, but there is a miss in it. Having to use lead-free .22 ammo in California, your video really doesn't show much because the 22 you shot was lead. A better comparison would be shooting lead-free .22 ammo like Norma Eco .22 LR compared to the 22 Sharp. All of the 22 Leadfree I have shot goes wonky around 30 yards. So the real question is, does the 21 Sharp lead-free ammo have an advantage over .22 LR lead-free at 25, 50, and 100 yards? Now, that would be a comparison, yet not one RUclips maker has done a comparison past 25 yards.
Why didnt they just shorten the 22mag case, but load longer higher bc bullets and keep 22mag oal. Could have still used common 22cal barrel blanks and projectiles it would just have a different chamber basically
Can you do video on 300 win mag 30-06 308 and compare them using shorter barrel lengths. Ruger makes 20” barrels so if one was to make a model 70 shorter and handier it would be nice to see a video explaining benefits and cons of shorter lengths. I understand in factory ammo out of short barrel 300 win mag you are not going to burn all the powder but it would still be faster than a full length 30-06. But each cartridge has different loss of velocity per inch. It would also be interesting for larger calibers as well like 375 hh and 458 win mag especially since in Africa is popular for ph to shorten their 458 and or rebore to 458 Lott. I think this is a good conversation because 300,30-06,308 use the same bullets so by comparing velocities in shorter barrels may have a difference of bullet performance where you can gain velocity over the 300 win mag but not exceed velocities that make the same bullets break pedals. Example would be using 130 grain ttsx. Great performance for 308 or 30-06 but out of a 26” 300 win mag it will disintegrate on impact but if you shortened to 20” would it make that same bullet perform better than 30-06 or 308 out of 300. Same with heavier bullets. Maybe by slowing down velocities a heavier bullet would perform better? Just curious on bullet performance out of barrel lengths because the only videos that compare barrel length only focus on the velocity and never address bullet performance out of the shorter barrels. Maybe gel block test a factory 180ttsx out of factory barrel lengths and then shoot same bullet with shorter barrels and see the effects. Maybe the shorter barrel loses velocity but the bullets perform better and accuracy increases. From watching vortex nation they gel block 308 30-06 and 300.However the 300 the bullet did not exit and came back but the 30-06 bullet exited the block. So the faster the bullet is going there is more of an opposite reaction. Thank you if you read this. My hope is that by using faster burning powder in a 300 with a shorter barrel you can get better performance out of a handier rifle without needing the excessive velocities
“But without compatibility with .22lr barrels, this round quickly fell out of favour. Now you can’t even get ammo for them anymore” Forgotten weapons review of 21 sharp in 2026, probably
Hey i know this video is from 6 days ago but I was wondering if you could read my comment and I would like to know if you think the 6.5x55 is a good moose cartridge
if you want something else rimfire for 25 cents a pop theres always 22 win mag. a highly supported caliber. i feel like the 21 sharp was designed over tea and crumpits somewhere
Hey Ron, Denver from Oregon. I’m getting into hunting some ground squirrels on my property I’ve been using a .177 pellet rifle and getting 3/4 to 1/2 inch groups at about 21 yards with a heavy for caliber 8.48 grain pellet. One of my neighbors allows me to hunt squirrels on their property the it’s an open alfalfa field but I’m struggling to get close enough for a shot that I feel comfortable making. I’m sure I have lots to learn about stalking, however I’m wondering about maybe using a different gun but my other neighbor’s new and they don’t want to hear any guns. So, I’m looking into using my AR-15 with a 22lr bolt conversion and Aquila sniper subsonic 60 grain I think it’s bullet length would stabilize in a 1 in 7 twist barrel but I want to know am I even going down the right path hear or is there an obvious option I’m not seeing. Thanks for all your videos and any advice. PS I don’t own a 22lr bolt gun yet but I’m not looking to spend that kind of money at the moment but if that’s what it takes I’ll might have to learn to call them in close or stay patient.
I don't get it. Is there some law of physics that precludes the manufacture of lead-free 22LR ammo while allowing the manufacture of 21 caliber rimfire ammo? Of course not. So what gives?
If it was Eley Lapua or any other ammo maker that knows how to make good rimfire ammo, the 21 Sharp would have some credibility. I shoot Winchester ammo too, but not with any high expectations. I hope that i am wrong and that we get a new good cartridge. But today i dont believe we will.
It may be a little better, but the 22lr has been around so long and there's so many loads available, I don't see this having much effect in the industry.
Good question. They aren't the same. Focus is adjusted at the ocular(eye piece) end on most scopes and binoculars. Parallax is adjusted either at the objective end, the reticle tower, or is pre-set at the factory depending on the average range the scope is intended to be used at.
Should have been a 32. If they wanted to sell new rifles to small game hunters by invoking the need for lead-free ammo, they didn’t need to come up with a new oddball 21 caliber cartridge. They should have used the same form factor chambered in an existing 32 caliber. 32 S&W long is a little more powerful than 22lr, but less than 22wmr. It’s centerfire. There aren’t any bolt guns chambered in a 32. 60gr all-copper projectiles exist and are common in 32 cal. Ammo availability/supply chain is no problem. Heck, if you want you could even chamber it in 327 with the option to load a sub caliber. A ruger 10/32 would be sweet.
I guess I am just too much of an accuracy snob but my 22's at 25 yards either hit the end of a pencil or they move on, so until some way more accurate 21's come to market it will be a hard pass
@ why no? mosins and ak's routinely shoot underbore bullets because we have .308 not .311/.312 and those are jacketed. the softer lead bullet in 22s will likely obtruate to the larger bore
Why not make a copper bullet for .22 and lower the powder for the weight difference? This looks like creating a rifle, abd bullet, to charge more for a problem that barely exists.
I had initially thought that maybe firearms chambered for this round would be able to fire standard .22lr ammo as well as (presumably) higher pressured higher performing .21 sharp ammo. Akin to the .38spl/.357mag. But once I learned that wasn’t the case, you might as well film the forgotten weapons episode now.
Fuggin rekt well done
💯💯💯
I'm not taken in by it,it's not enough gain to justify buying another rifle and the ammo is much more expensive for what it is,there are plenty of 22lr firearms out there and for what it is used for I go back to what I just said it's not enough gain no thank you Winchester this is just about making money like many of the new shiny soyboy man bun cartridges that are out there😢
@@ratdaddy7774but you will if they outlaw lead in your state.
@@gonepostal9101Nope. Not I. Just will stop hunting for small game.
Change happens everyday,but some things never change. Long live .22LR!
22 is just too well established for 21 sharp to ever take off in my opinion. If the entire point is to be lead free for regulation, I don’t see why a new caliber is needed….why not just make lead free 22lr? Sure they might be lighter than lead, but still……I don’t see why an entirely new non-compatible calibre is needed (and I don’t see it lasting very long……if it was .25 lead free rim fire, then okay maybe but then….cost would be bad, just like .17 never really took off since it’s cheaper to just use 22lr). You can’t beat 22lr at it’s own game
Norma already has a copper 22LR load that is lead free so I don't understand how going to an entirely different rifle and caliber makes sense.
Correct
@@rogerf7265 and those are spendy 22’s. I guess the deal is that because the 22 bullet is actually the same diameter as the case, so they have to actually
make the bullet with the base of the bullet necked down to seat in the case. This is easy to do with lead, not so easy with copper, hence, the reason this new cartridge is .21, and not .22.
CCI had the copper 22s as well, but discontinued them. They shot very well out of my Henry. If going lead free was the reason, wouldn’t there be a bunch of lead free options in 21 sharp? I see only one.
I agree completely , why change rifles when you just get all copper ammo and keep your trusty 22 that you like so much.
💡 Simply a money grab😔
I feel a forgotten weapons episode coming. This will probably end up like the Remington electric rifle.
@@michaelm9211 there are electric impulse weapons in the military around the world.
@ that’s not what I mean. The Remington electric 700 was a conventional powder propelled lead projectile with a brass case, but it was ignited with an electric charge and not a traditional primer. My point is that it was an innovation that nobody asked for. It was unpopular, short lived, and was only produced for a short time. I think something similar is going to happen to the Winchester 21 sharp cartridge and the rifle.
@ very cool history. Thank you for sharing your knowledge of this. I hope I did not come off as overtly rude. I made a mistake by commenting so quickly and without any depth.
Or Remington's 5mm rimfires? Stock up on this ammo while you can, lol; it may be worth a bundle one day.
Or remington 30RAR
This cartridge is D O A
Exactly.
Itll be like the straight walls wake off in the states with the restrictions it was aimed to tackle. Less so in other states
100% agreed. If it was reverse compatible with 22LR it may have caught on but being exclusively new…yeah no chance it’s going to match 22 LR at all.
It was never alive
@@thereasonableconsumer It's the worst bonehead idea in recent times.
😂 Winchester can't even make decent 22 ammo!
@1371CEA…AMEN!…but the Toob of U content creators will keep it the forefront 🤔🤔🤔
@bisleyblackhawk1288 Sponsors are a horrible and wonderful thing.
If the rationale for this cartridge is to replace lead ammo, then the only valid tests are with lead-free ammo. MAYBE (and that's a real big 'maybe') other makers will produce better lead-free for this round and give it some life, other wise it's a safe queen. Seems like it would be easier to make an effective, affordable lead-free 22lr.
Also, I'd like to see real life numbers on how many predators/scavengers are killed by ingesting animals shot with lead bullets. Not just bodies found with lead in the blood or tissue. The lead bullet or fragments ingested have to be the actual cause of death. My money says the number is low.
It probably doesn't cost much to produce. History is littered with abandoned cartridges. Why they'd try to introduce a new rimfire cartridge doesn't make much sense. If you wanna make a new varmint round, why go with rimfire?
My money says that number is zero. Lead poisoning takes years of exposure, because it's solubility is so low. I do think lead can be a problem in some cases, but they'll poop out the bullet before they absorb any. It's not the same as mercury (but even then, mercury usually takes years of exposure to vapors)
Easier to manufacture lead free with this one. Reason 22 shorts longs n long rifle by design use a healed bullet.bullet exposed if full bore diameter.
While can be and are lead free in LR. More trouble to make.
This 21 Sharp is like reg cartridge bullet seats inside case,easier to manufacture which is supposed to keep cost down.
Lead free 22 lr run 2to 3x regular lead ones.
It's really for hunters in states that ban lead bullets for hunting. Eventually, all states will ban lead.
@wdtaut5650 "Also, I'd like to see real life numbers on how many predators/scavengers are killed by ingesting animals shot with lead bullets." ...... me too. Making cheap bullets and charging more for them (like steel shot for ducks) seems to be the what the real motive is. Nice coincidence that some states want to ban lead...
Cool idea but honestly I'd love to see the 5mm rimfire revamped maybe a modern iteration.
I was thinking that they really could use something like a .20 caliber in like the 17 wsm case
@@MrCrabs231that would be awesome
.17 hmr
@@varietasVeritas 20 cal is bigger then the hmr. It's a 17cal. 5mm is 20cal same as the 204 ruger bullet
I Never Seen a .22 projectile in Small Game, it Always Passes through !
Mr. Ron Why not just get non lead rounds for the 22.
Correct
Price.
It’s a good night when a Spomer video drops!
Or more nonsense paid for by manufacturing companies…. Like lead being the cause of a bird dying from predation and not due to the infinite amount of other factors like wildfires, habitat loss and the infinite amount of lead naturally occurring in a third of the North American continent
The 21 Sharp and the 30 Super Carry have been the dumbest ideas by the firearms industry in recent years. The 350 Legend and the 17 HMR have been the best ideas.
30SC ain’t a big seller, but a new 21 caliber rimfire is in an entirely different league of stupid.
I can see much more of a market for 30 super carry than this tbh. It actually brings something to the table beyond bullet material.
@@evanf1443 Sales don't agree with you. The 30 SC can't compete with the 9 mm.
Word
You forgot .327 federal.
Waiting for the upgrade to the 21 sharper and 21 sharpest😅
With Norma making a copper lead free .22 load, this looks like an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem.
22 LR is for small game which is collected by hunters not left in the field like some medium game carcasses after they have been butchered. So the alleged lead poisoning comes from other sources, not 22 LR lead bullets.
Try explaining that to lawmakers.
When they ban lead they rarely make a distinction like that although I seem to recall at least one of the previous lead restrictions excluding 22lr.
@@chucksherronif anything I imagine the lead poisoning is at least partially an excuse to ban a common type of ammunition. Incrementally turning up the temperature on law abiding gun owners
@@evanf1443 I agree
@@evanf1443that is all this is.
Pretty sure he means the ones that don't get instantly unalived and run off. He don't mean a Condor Flys into your house, takes the change out of your change jar.. bangs your wife then steals your fresh squirrel.... Holy hell.
Ain’t impressed by the new round.
I think it’s a lead balloon. If you want a rimfire better than .22LR, either of the .17’s are a good choice.
I think I will have to pass on this one. I have a CZ heavy barreled varmiter with a smoothed trigger and reduced spring that shoots nickle sized groups at 100 yards all day long off a sand bag with standard .22 ammunition right off the shelf. A cheap 3 to 9 Simmons scope is all that I am using on it. I can't see that it will do anything that what I already own won't do.
Thanks for the intro to this new round. I'm always fascinated to see what is coming to the market and I thoroughly enjoy your videos and your take on things. Merry Christmas my friend ( whom I have never met, ha ha ) -- den
Just my very humble opinion, but I think this is yet another useless here today gone tomorrow cartridge that can easily be replaced by something much better. 🤷
Great vid dude. Love all your vids.
21 Sharp ammo with solid copper bullets will probably cost about the same as 22 Magnums.
There's no battle, the 21 sharp never had an army...its doomed!
You can’t even call that a group from the 21
A 5 inch group...😅
Maybe the low power optics ?😅
Pattern
Nothing will ever take the place of the 22 lr
Man the lead free thing will really us who enjoy hunting with air rifles considering the ammo is pure lead
why wouldn't anyone with a rifle chambered in .22LR just buy all-copper .22LR ammo?
Yes
The 21 sharp is designed for copper ammo.. haven’t tried the 21 sharps but I imagine it would perform better with copper bullets. All that aside I’m still probably never going to buy one lol
i was thinking the same exact thing. i think the explanation, is, potentially, that because the copper is naturally less dense than lead, the barrel has to have a higher twist rate (lower twist ratio higher twist rate) to stabilize a bullet of identical grainage in copper vs lead. periodic table stuff. molecular weights, densities. Startin’ to get into some hardcore chemistry there. I think .22 lr is maybe a 1:10 or 1:12 twist in any standard gun. I did not check but i am theorizing maybe the .21 sharp has to have a 1:8 or 1:7? i dunno, that’s just my theory. because u r exactly correct!! why not simply purchase copper .22lr? there must be a reason.
“the recoil is brutal”😂 haha this is one of my favorite parts of Ron Spomer and it’s always funny because while that one was an obvious one sometimes he does them a bit more subtle and an inevitable commenter will take him seriously and rip him in the comments which always makes it that much more funny. I understand that lots of people catch the joke but hey guys and gals yall know it’s the internet comments section and there’s always someone who doesn’t.
That sounds really good on the copper lead controversy except we've been fishing and fish have been swallowing hooks with lead singers for 100 years and eagles eat them too. Propaganda only don't believe it
What's the propaganda? Lead is toxic or what? Who benefits from the conspiracy?
@codyg6057 I said controversy not conspiracy you don't see a bunch of dead eagles from eating fish because fish hooks always have a sinker above it that's made out of lead and it's happened the whole time where's the studies show me.
@codyg6057 the propaganda is they make anything happen to do with a gun hard to get, much more expensive and hard to get for the public a different form of gun control.
I fell for the old 5mm Remington rim fire in the 70s. Then Remington abandoned the rife and cartridge, leaving me with essentially a useless gun. So , even though I'm interested in the 21, it brings back bad memories.
I hear someone is making 5mm ammo again
I think Aguila makes 5mm Rem Mag. Always thought that was a neat round. It is between $30 and $35 for a box of 50 if you look around.
The 21 Sharp is going to fail…i can see it now.
And in my country no one will ever know that it failed or existed.
17 wsm never arrived here. And that is not a bad cartridge.
The lower the bullet weight the greater the effect of differences in load. Windage is also worse at same bc. If they made a copper jacketed tungsten round it would outperform the 22lr though not by enough to be significant in a hunting use. The better bc possible with this round is not a factor at small game ranges.
Sounds like a brilliant solution to a non existent problem. Besides, most .22 ammo is junk these days, why not fix that first?
Expensive, hard to find ammo which will probably fail and be even more hard to find in the future. They should have put their efforts into developing a better bullet for the 22lr. I understand that the 22 is an outside lubed bullet, but I am sure I could be done.
I used to carry lead pellets, in my mouth. Crimped lead sinkers on my fishing line with my teeth. Carried 50 cal muzzleloader balls in my mouth when competing in Woods Walks. So when is this lead poisoning sposed to kick in. Im 53, and no issues yet. Hmmmmm.
I did the same thing, and I’m closing in on 69 years. This is based on yet another “study’ that most likely received millions in government funding. D.O.G.E can’t come soon enough.
wait wait wait you carried balls in your mouth?😂 🎉🎉🎉 haha thanks for the easy setup on that one.
u cannot know about potential lead poisoning unless you get your brain MRId and examined by a neurologist. Lead poisoning is a very long-dated thing, unfortunately, the effects may show up when u r 60, or 70. It is also possible that you never ingested enough lead to get hurt. Both are possible. It would
be wise to go to a neurologist or poison control specialist doctor to help you learn, understand, and plan for potential effects which may be yet to come. Doubt you will, but it would be wise. The doctor may say that ah ur fine no worries u never ingested that much. Yes he might say that. Good to go and find out, for your future health and quality of life as a plus50 male in America. Best wishes to you sir!
Ron, I have been watching many of your videos and have found them highly informative. You and I are close in age, and it's good to see you are still enjoying shooting and hunting sports. I love your content. Like you, I love walnut stocks. My last rifle purchase was a Sako 85 270 Winchester with a beautiful walnut stock. I shot sub-moa with factory ammo, which I found remarkable.
*What beautiful fall colors; good show!* *Smiles...*
Hey Ron, not relted to this video but a while back you asked for test footage on how a flat nose bullet may do more damage than a pointed one of the same caliber.
Well i run a youtube channel of my own where i tested this, to amazing effect. I doubt you will see this comment, but ill toss my hat in the ring here.
I can not post links, youtube removes those comments. But it is my 'full metal jacket, but deadlier' video that im sure can be found with a simple type in the search bar
Love your work, learnd a lot from you
Thanks for showing about this round . I had hear about it . But sounded odd to me about it . Thanks for doing a video about it.
I agree bring back the 5mm just don't let winchester make the ammo
Hopefully Winchester gets both out asap. Ammo n the rifles..took 3 yrs to find a Wildcat n 3 for the Xpert to show up.. n 5 for a magazine.Likely could of found on line but much prefer hands on.
Ron, Ron, Ron, with all due respect. Whom ever dreamt up the 21 Sharp idea and all those connected with it need help. Mental illness is a growing concern worldwide, and this is a sign of just how bad it has become. I have seen all the usual suspects with the sales pitches, but no it's a mind-numbing idea. Why: 22LR is everywhere, it's cheap and fun to shoot, and great for small game. The 21 Sharp is almost identical, but the ammo is expensive. As for the greenies, game has been shot with lead and eaten for centuries, and we are still here. Save your credibility, and just let it go.
Disassociate yourself from this Greenie unicorn round before it’s too late Ron. Starting to sound like Gavin Nuisance
Unless there are some major improvements in accuracy and cost, this is one dumb idea! Forget about the velocity. It's worthless and should not be of any consideration unless the round is accurate.
Or the rifles are dirt cheap
The biggest thing this cartridge has going for it is a future option to make a heavy for caliber, standard/subsonic velocity, higher BC lead core, copper plated or jacketed bullet load that could be fired in a faster twist barrel for the long range/precision rimfire crowd.
Adding that would double or triple the demand as current 22 LR heeled projectiles are literally Achilles’ heel of the round for extended ranges.
I ordered a new candle for my trophy room today... Can't wait to get ot.
No... It will not.
Ron , it seems possible that in an emergency you can shoot 21 sharp in a 22 lr barrel. Since the 21 sharp is only slightly smaller accuracy wouldnt be affected that much. Hypatheticlly speaking of course. Is that possible ?
Hi Ron. I started not to ask this, since your later groups were a lot better than the first, but I still want your opinion on why companies don't make more precise factory loads for rimfire?
I mean, do they think to themselves that oh, it's just rimfire, no one will care....
What are your thoughts?
Thanks!
On another video you asked for requests of people to interview. My suggestion would have to come from the _”Wayback Machine”_ - Paul Harrell. I will have to see if you two ever did a video together.
*R.I.P. Paul*
If like you said you could get a replacement barrel for a quick change option (10/22 takedown for example) I could see a market for this-especially if the barrels are cheap- but I don’t know how well it’ll actually take off. I don’t know if it’ll survive long enough for the barrels to be produced and become popular.
New rounds come and go, but the classics last forever.
Im interested in possible subsonic loads for suppressor use.
Because, lets face it, not having exposure to lead would be ideal.
If they don’t have a subsonic round available for suppression use I’m out. Thank you Ron
Good to have more choices
Why can’t they make a copper 22LR bullet?
I’m fairly certain they do. That’s why I’m confused about this. Waaaay cheaper and more likely to be a popular option to just make a copper .22lr…
Well cci used to make a 21gr copper round, but it’s discontinued now. I knew I’ve seen one before. I don’t think making a whole new cartridge just to make it legal to hunt with is a good idea though.
He did in another vid he dropped awhile back. Basically way more expensive, might as well design a new cartridge, which is what they did.
@@gonepostal9101 okay then why not the 17mach2?
@@BryceKimball7.3 Yep. Expensive, miserable accuracy. I still have most of a box. There's no point in shooting it.
i wish they would some effort into 400 legend ammo
I inherited my grandfather's Remington bolt action rifle. It fires 22 short, 22 long, and 22 long rifle bullets.
Until someone makes a 21 that can do the same, I'll wait.
when i was first introduced to this new 21 sharp cartridge my first question was "how long did it manage to stay in production?" i thought it was a long dead cartridge, something that no manufacturer would try in this age. like the 45GAP or the 9mmSuper, or recently the 30SC
Thank you !!!
I have to wonder what niche they think they can fill. I have been taking game in CA with non lead ammo for years. Never been an issue, and certinly never thought I needed a new rilfle/caliber for small game.
I remember that Remington developed a 5mm bottle necked rimfire cartridge that was discontinued then brought back.
Instead of the 21 caliber couldn’t they cast a copper 22 the same way they make the lead bullets?
I would probably prefer the 17hm2 and maybe see how well 17 pmc ammo would group. The 17’s really seem to be more accurate than the others.
yeah, I'd be interested if someone made a 10/22 barrel , easy swap, if the price was reasonable, wouldn't have to buy a whole other gun , plus the availability of ammo figures in ! and does anyone else think that the legendary Ron Spomer would mount his scope backwards ????? LOL !!! IT'S EXACTLY HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE !!!!
Hey Ron I noticed you didnt wait 30 seconds for the possible hang fire when you pulled the trigger and it didnt go off. I know you probably assumed that you were out of ammo but its a dangerous habit. Cheers hope to hear your thoughts!
When Lapua start making ammo for 21 Sharp, I’ll consider it
I'm baffled that there still isn't a "true" 22 Magnum cartridge available. I mean a longer 22LR designed to handle higher pressure while offering the possibility of backward compatibility with 22LR, unlike the 22WMR.
The cartridge could remain affordable, most 22LR guns wouldn't need to be redesigned beyond a longer chamber, but it would also be a fantastic chambering for revolvers and repeating rifles that could fire the usual 22LR and 22 Short as an added bonus.
There was the 22 Extra Long over a century ago but that is long gone, and it wasn't made to handle high pressure loads.
I bet the first manufacturer to promote such a cartridge would end up rolling in dough.
I agree with you. I never understood why "in the beggining" they didn't make the 22 lr with a longer case, say .750", instead of .613". A little bit longer case would boost velocity a bit.
On a separate note, I also wish the same for the 25 acp. Give it a 3/4" long case, remove some of the rim so it'll feed a little better in a magazine, and make a doublestack ppk, or Browning BDA to fire it. Just a weird dream, I know.
@@JimProfit357 the cci stinger uses a longer case and could be considered a "magnum". you can shoot 22lr and cci stingers from the same firearm
also the case has to be soft enough to allow for the rim to be compressed during firing/rimfire. so you cannot increase the pressure without risking case rupture bc its a softer brass
@@allthingsconsidered3211 If they shoot from a standard semi-auto gun, they're not a distinct cartridge, just a hot load.
When you look at the length of a 22LR revolver cylinder, you see how much of a waste it is to not have a true next gen cartridge, one that is not only longer but built for significantly superior ballistics.
With 22LR becoming what 38SP is to 357.
Keeping it rimfire would keep the cost reasonable.
One can dream, but it seems like such a no brainer to me.
The rimfire brass cant really handle much higher pressures
@ ah i gotcha. a good idea. so you want a really long 22lr? like the length of a 22wmr but with a 22lr bullet diameter?
the stinger is only a little longer than a 22lr, like the 357 is to 38sp. not necessarily a hot load. same pressure but more case/powder. its be like loading a 357 to 38sp pressures. (came out in 1975)
the 38sp runs at 17.5ksi and the 357 runs at 35ksi. and all rimfires that i know of run at 24ksi
@ Ron Spomer outdoors My father has some field and stream magazines. You may be interested in the range in mid 1940s I don’t want them to go to the dump
I wonder if the 21 Sharp suffers from the change to lead/ copper fouling accuracy issue.. (assuming you put lead bullets through it before copper..
Great video, but there is a miss in it. Having to use lead-free .22 ammo in California, your video really doesn't show much because the 22 you shot was lead. A better comparison would be shooting lead-free .22 ammo like Norma Eco .22 LR compared to the 22 Sharp. All of the 22 Leadfree I have shot goes wonky around 30 yards. So the real question is, does the 21 Sharp lead-free ammo have an advantage over .22 LR lead-free at 25, 50, and 100 yards? Now, that would be a comparison, yet not one RUclips maker has done a comparison past 25 yards.
Why didnt they just shorten the 22mag case, but load longer higher bc bullets and keep 22mag oal. Could have still used common 22cal barrel blanks and projectiles it would just have a different chamber basically
Can you do video on 300 win mag 30-06 308 and compare them using shorter barrel lengths. Ruger makes 20” barrels so if one was to make a model 70 shorter and handier it would be nice to see a video explaining benefits and cons of shorter lengths. I understand in factory ammo out of short barrel 300 win mag you are not going to burn all the powder but it would still be faster than a full length 30-06. But each cartridge has different loss of velocity per inch. It would also be interesting for larger calibers as well like 375 hh and 458 win mag especially since in Africa is popular for ph to shorten their 458 and or rebore to 458 Lott. I think this is a good conversation because 300,30-06,308 use the same bullets so by comparing velocities in shorter barrels may have a difference of bullet performance where you can gain velocity over the 300 win mag but not exceed velocities that make the same bullets break pedals. Example would be using 130 grain ttsx. Great performance for 308 or 30-06 but out of a 26” 300 win mag it will disintegrate on impact but if you shortened to 20” would it make that same bullet perform better than 30-06 or 308 out of 300. Same with heavier bullets. Maybe by slowing down velocities a heavier bullet would perform better? Just curious on bullet performance out of barrel lengths because the only videos that compare barrel length only focus on the velocity and never address bullet performance out of the shorter barrels. Maybe gel block test a factory 180ttsx out of factory barrel lengths and then shoot same bullet with shorter barrels and see the effects. Maybe the shorter barrel loses velocity but the bullets perform better and accuracy increases. From watching vortex nation they gel block 308 30-06 and 300.However the 300 the bullet did not exit and came back but the 30-06 bullet exited the block. So the faster the bullet is going there is more of an opposite reaction. Thank you if you read this. My hope is that by using faster burning powder in a 300 with a shorter barrel you can get better performance out of a handier rifle without needing the excessive velocities
“But without compatibility with .22lr barrels, this round quickly fell out of favour. Now you can’t even get ammo for them anymore” Forgotten weapons review of 21 sharp in 2026, probably
Hey i know this video is from 6 days ago but I was wondering if you could read my comment and I would like to know if you think the 6.5x55 is a good moose cartridge
if you want something else rimfire for 25 cents a pop theres always 22 win mag. a highly supported caliber. i feel like the 21 sharp was designed over tea and crumpits somewhere
What was your sight height vs the 1.5" on the ballistics chart? That could explain some of the difference in drop.
Lol pulled out a famed Kimber for comparison. The sharp will thrive despite its lukewarm debut.
Just a question...is it even possible to move a very small bullet like lets say 15grains with only the power of a primer?...
copper polymer, CCI Copper-22 cartridges
On the 22 was the scope on backwards compare the mounting of both scopes 8:10
Hey Ron, Denver from Oregon. I’m getting into hunting some ground squirrels on my property I’ve been using a .177 pellet rifle and getting 3/4 to 1/2 inch groups at about 21 yards with a heavy for caliber 8.48 grain pellet. One of my neighbors allows me to hunt squirrels on their property the it’s an open alfalfa field but I’m struggling to get close enough for a shot that I feel comfortable making. I’m sure I have lots to learn about stalking, however I’m wondering about maybe using a different gun but my other neighbor’s new and they don’t want to hear any guns. So, I’m looking into using my AR-15 with a 22lr bolt conversion and Aquila sniper subsonic 60 grain I think it’s bullet length would stabilize in a 1 in 7 twist barrel but I want to know am I even going down the right path hear or is there an obvious option I’m not seeing. Thanks for all your videos and any advice. PS I don’t own a 22lr bolt gun yet but I’m not looking to spend that kind of money at the moment but if that’s what it takes I’ll might have to learn to call them in close or stay patient.
How did you manage to cope with all that recoil?
So it's supersonic.... Not a first choice for use with a silencer then 🤔
I don't get it. Is there some law of physics that precludes the manufacture of lead-free 22LR ammo while allowing the manufacture of 21 caliber rimfire ammo? Of course not. So what gives?
If someone makes a cheap 10/22 takedown barrel I can see them making some money on this.
21 sharp will never top a 22 long
With groups like that, I would not even posted this video
How hard would it be to make a copper .22
Remember the 223 WSSM? Exactly
So what's the future in store for shotgun game loads ?
Steel, bismuth, and tungsten alloys
Depleted Uranium. 😊
PizzA
Pretty cool
...why didnt they just make a copper 22lr? This seems like theyre just trying to con people into buying new rifles and new barrels....
Correct
For those that don't know they do make copper 22 from cci
What states have banned lead 22 ammo other than California?
That's "Kaliporña".
If it was Eley Lapua or any other ammo maker that knows how to make good rimfire ammo, the 21 Sharp would have some credibility.
I shoot Winchester ammo too, but not with any high expectations.
I hope that i am wrong and that we get a new good cartridge. But today i dont believe we will.
It may be a little better, but the 22lr has been around so long and there's so many loads available, I don't see this having much effect in the industry.
That’s small of a bullet traveling at that speed makes me wonder about penetration or over penetration
Please do a review of the 300 ham'r
Why are there no subtitles available?😢
Get test 21 sharp vs 22 lr?
What has "focus" to do with "parallax"?
It's the same thing
For all practical purposes it’s an additional focus knob. It aligns the crosshair and the target image to the same focal plane.
Good question. They aren't the same. Focus is adjusted at the ocular(eye piece) end on most scopes and binoculars. Parallax is adjusted either at the objective end, the reticle tower, or is pre-set at the factory depending on the average range the scope is intended to be used at.
Should have been a 32.
If they wanted to sell new rifles to small game hunters by invoking the need for lead-free ammo, they didn’t need to come up with a new oddball 21 caliber cartridge.
They should have used the same form factor chambered in an existing 32 caliber. 32 S&W long is a little more powerful than 22lr, but less than 22wmr. It’s centerfire. There aren’t any bolt guns chambered in a 32. 60gr all-copper projectiles exist and are common in 32 cal. Ammo availability/supply chain is no problem. Heck, if you want you could even chamber it in 327 with the option to load a sub caliber.
A ruger 10/32 would be sweet.
I guess I am just too much of an accuracy snob but my 22's at 25 yards either hit the end of a pencil or they move on, so until some way more accurate 21's come to market it will be a hard pass
can you show us the accuracy u get from shooting the 21 out of a 22 please?
No
@ why no? mosins and ak's routinely shoot underbore bullets because we have .308 not .311/.312 and those are jacketed.
the softer lead bullet in 22s will likely obtruate to the larger bore
@@allthingsconsidered3211 no
@John-Nel thanks. i cant stand banana ballistics tho. no way im watching that whole thing lol
Why not make a copper bullet for .22 and lower the powder for the weight difference? This looks like creating a rifle, abd bullet, to charge more for a problem that barely exists.