John, thank you for resolving an issue for me. I took my bow to my local shop recently due to the upper cam system popping and squeaking. My top and bottom cams were leaning quite a bit. I asked the technician working on my bow to set the cam position straight up and down and then I would address any flight issues with my rest. He said that he couldn't do this as the bow maker allows the cam lean in order to get proper arrow flight and that once the arrow rest is set to 13/16" then the top hat's would need to be swapped in order to achieve proper arrow flight and cam lean as a result of this , "is what it is".
Some bow manufacturers have more bottom cam lean than others but at brace I use a arrow on the shelf side of the cam or both cams depending if its a singe or double control cable split yoke system that arrow and fieldtip point should run dead behind the string at the Dloop to mimic the powerstroke with the arrow nock dead behind the string and any twist in the left yoke I take out the same twist in the right yoke so it doesn't effect cam timing and also making sure arrow spine is correct to eliminate any nock left tares through paper for a right handed shooter and the opposite would happen with a left handed shooter.
John I use a arrow as a straight edge on the side of top and bottom cam with the fieldtip dead behind the string inside the Dloop that naturally falls behind behind the string at the Dloop with free floating yokes that mimics the powerstroke putting the string behind the arrow nock and typically runs parallel 1/8 top and bottom at full draw on a drawboard I also put the same adjustments on Solocams with a single split yoke control cable with idler lean that all shoot perfect bullets through paper I'm more about poundage and correct ATA over any other string and control cable adjustments.
I had to end up using plastic shims to actually take the cam lean out to prove to PSE the bow had to have new limbs...no amount of twists or untwists from the yolk strings would bring the cams into center...the bottom string stop originally blew by the string from the get go, ie factory... PSE ended up sending new limbs...😊
The issue with 70lb pse bows is you'd be lucky to be able to reduce the tension less than 60 lb due to the preload on the limbs .making them more suited for hunting only .
On this video you seem to be only concerned about the top cam because that's the only one you seemed to check... What about the bottom cam ? Because that's where I have the cam lean on my Hoyt and it doesn't have a yoke system on the bottom..It leans so bad that I took the draw stop off the bottom cam because it looked like the cable could pop past it..Yeah I know, if the cams are in time it shouldn't but, I feel better about it.. .
On my bow, the cable stopper is quite wide and allows variations within 3mm. Someone smart did this probably to reduce the inclination when switching the load from the bowstring to the cables.
How do you adjust this on a PSE Shootdown 2018? It does not have a proper yoke, but a 5-string setup, so cannot add twist to one side, as the cable goes over to the other side as well.
My top limbs on my PSE max look like they are learning to the side when I hold it up , (I’m right handed), it looks like it’s leaning rover to the right slightly
My mathews lift 29.5 bottom cam is leaning to left at bottom, it wasn't when my gas string was installed, now after shooting 500 plus times it's leaning, top cam is straight but it still shoots bullet holes, I lost 3 pounds on draw weight also, when at full draw it looks straight, how to fix that or should I? It leans about 10 degrees
I'm new to this, but on my bow I noticed the string wearing at the point it contacts the cam after getting new gas strings. Paper tune seems good, have to do it again once I fix my cam lean tho
@@nilslandis1603who put the strings on? Chances are there are too many or too few twists in the strings from when they put them on. I had this same issue. It’s obvious out of alignment. If the dealer put your strings on I would let them know.
I'd like to know Dud's answer to Ashley's question. Arbitrarily leaning cams based merely on appearance without regard to arrow flight seems completely backward.
@@Johnbobon agreed. Cams can lean on rest with zero effect on paper tune. I tuned my sr6 from zero cam lean at rest and ended up putting a couple of twists in my strings to get it perfect. It really boils down to form and everyone’s form is different
@GoDodgers1 2 minutes ago (edited) Turning the strings is exactly why I don't use a compound bow. This all looks like a sloppy way of archery. Look, my cams aren't straight? Give it a break, if the cams aren't straight, look for a new platform. Same with the lame yoke system. Compound bow archery is a mechanical nightmare and should be scrapped.
It's fairly simple and straightforward...it sounds more like *you* don't understand it, and therefore you believe it's a terrible system. I mean, imagine if people just said "hey, this internal combustion engine is too complicated, lets scrap it and go back to horse and buggy!".
There’s a very select few who could actually shoot a difference lol. Don’t get me wrong, bows need to be tuned, proper spine, etc. but people need to shoot their bows more. Once your shot process is impeccable and you can shoot a 300 Vegas round or close to it, then this kind of stuff “might” make a difference. Even then, probably not lol
When your bow technician doesn’t know what they’re doing when replacing a string, and you wind up having a string derail in the middle of a shot due to cam lean, it matters.
@@Flatrocker512 usually due to people not having proper grip or trying to to let down slowly and they can’t handle the poundage so they end up white-knuckling the bow and when they go to let down, they de-rail it. See it ALL the time at our shop during hunting season. Some cam lean is okay but yeah at some point it can be dangerous.
Now this is the video I've been waiting for! Thank you Sir!
John, thank you for resolving an issue for me. I took my bow to my local shop recently due to the upper cam system popping and squeaking. My top and bottom cams were leaning quite a bit.
I asked the technician working on my bow to set the cam position straight up and down and then I would address any flight issues with my rest. He said that he couldn't do this as the bow maker allows the cam lean in order to get proper arrow flight and that once the arrow rest is set to 13/16" then the top hat's would need to be swapped in order to achieve proper arrow flight and cam lean as a result of this , "is what it is".
Some bow manufacturers have more bottom cam lean than others but at brace I use a arrow on the shelf side of the cam or both cams depending if its a singe or double control cable split yoke system that arrow and fieldtip point should run dead behind the string at the Dloop to mimic the powerstroke with the arrow nock dead behind the string and any twist in the left yoke I take out the same twist in the right yoke so it doesn't effect cam timing and also making sure arrow spine is correct to eliminate any nock left tares through paper for a right handed shooter and the opposite would happen with a left handed shooter.
@@raymondjones6024
I appreciate your input and detailed explanation.
Sounds like your using a mathews and your technician is correct. You can't yoke tune a mathews. Their yoke is floating, so can't be twisted up
@@raymondjones6024 yip, that's a more detailed description of what I said....
John I use a arrow as a straight edge on the side of top and bottom cam with the fieldtip dead behind the string inside the Dloop that naturally falls behind behind the string at the Dloop with free floating yokes that mimics the powerstroke putting the string behind the arrow nock and typically runs parallel 1/8 top and bottom at full draw on a drawboard I also put the same adjustments on Solocams with a single split yoke control cable with idler lean that all shoot perfect bullets through paper I'm more about poundage and correct ATA over any other string and control cable adjustments.
I had to end up using plastic shims to actually take the cam lean out to prove to PSE the bow had to have new limbs...no amount of twists or untwists from the yolk strings would bring the cams into center...the bottom string stop originally blew by the string from the get go, ie factory...
PSE ended up sending new limbs...😊
Amazing to me you were able to get this out of them !!
How do you adjust bottom cam lean if it’s not a split yoke?
The issue with 70lb pse bows is you'd be lucky to be able to reduce the tension less than 60 lb due to the preload on the limbs .making them more suited for hunting only .
You answered my question as I was writing it. Thank you
On this video you seem to be only concerned about the top cam because that's the only one you seemed to check... What about the bottom cam ? Because that's where I have the cam lean on my Hoyt and it doesn't have a yoke system on the bottom..It leans so bad that I took the draw stop off the bottom cam because it looked like the cable could pop past it..Yeah I know, if the cams are in time it shouldn't but, I feel better about it..
.
What is come of the best ways to check cam lean at full draw in draw board. Thanks John for great info
How about a quick run down on the Solocam idler lean?
Great information! Thanks John!
Is the yoke cable one piece? so wouldn't twisting one side to reduce lean just shorten both sides after a few shots?
On my bow, the cable stopper is quite wide and allows variations within 3mm. Someone smart did this probably to reduce the inclination when switching the load from the bowstring to the cables.
Can this issue impact the sight alignment further to the right or left ? Thank you
Short answer, Yes!
How do you adjust this on a PSE Shootdown 2018? It does not have a proper yoke, but a 5-string setup, so cannot add twist to one side, as the cable goes over to the other side as well.
My top limbs on my PSE max look like they are learning to the side when I hold it up , (I’m right handed), it looks like it’s leaning rover to the right slightly
No word about pre-lean. Not sure about the Binary cam bow, but the hybrid cam bows need a certain amount of cam lean or else they won't tune.
My mathews lift 29.5 bottom cam is leaning to left at bottom, it wasn't when my gas string was installed, now after shooting 500 plus times it's leaning, top cam is straight but it still shoots bullet holes, I lost 3 pounds on draw weight also, when at full draw it looks straight, how to fix that or should I? It leans about 10 degrees
Who makes your bow strings?
great video , I think it would have been better if you showed actually twisting cable to fix
Why are we making changes to cam lean without checking tune? No lean does not equal good flight…
I'm new to this, but on my bow I noticed the string wearing at the point it contacts the cam after getting new gas strings. Paper tune seems good, have to do it again once I fix my cam lean tho
@@nilslandis1603who put the strings on? Chances are there are too many or too few twists in the strings from when they put them on. I had this same issue. It’s obvious out of alignment. If the dealer put your strings on I would let them know.
I'd like to know Dud's answer to Ashley's question. Arbitrarily leaning cams based merely on appearance without regard to arrow flight seems completely backward.
@@Johnbobon agreed. Cams can lean on rest with zero effect on paper tune. I tuned my sr6 from zero cam lean at rest and ended up putting a couple of twists in my strings to get it perfect. It really boils down to form and everyone’s form is different
Right? Makes me wonder about this guy.
Great information
Thanks
@GoDodgers1
2 minutes ago (edited)
Turning the strings is exactly why I don't use a compound bow. This all looks like a sloppy way of archery. Look, my cams aren't straight? Give it a break, if the cams aren't straight, look for a new platform. Same with the lame yoke system. Compound bow archery is a mechanical nightmare and should be scrapped.
It's fairly simple and straightforward...it sounds more like *you* don't understand it, and therefore you believe it's a terrible system.
I mean, imagine if people just said "hey, this internal combustion engine is too complicated, lets scrap it and go back to horse and buggy!".
There’s a very select few who could actually shoot a difference lol. Don’t get me wrong, bows need to be tuned, proper spine, etc. but people need to shoot their bows more. Once your shot process is impeccable and you can shoot a 300 Vegas round or close to it, then this kind of stuff “might” make a difference. Even then, probably not lol
When your bow technician doesn’t know what they’re doing when replacing a string, and you wind up having a string derail in the middle of a shot due to cam lean, it matters.
@@Flatrocker512 usually due to people not having proper grip or trying to to let down slowly and they can’t handle the poundage so they end up white-knuckling the bow and when they go to let down, they de-rail it. See it ALL the time at our shop during hunting season. Some cam lean is okay but yeah at some point it can be dangerous.