First off, thank you so much for this! Just made two controllers for my TG16 and I love them. (Can confirm it works perfectly with the din 8 of the TG 16 as well). I made two discoveries I'd like to share: One; if you have any dead or crappy 3rd party Genesis controllers around, I harvested the cables from two of them for my TG-NES controllers. They have 9 wires and are thin enough to easily fit in the NES strain relief. I just used din 8 plugs from digikey, pinouts are readily available online. Two; instead of attaching the NES chip and clipping the pins, I removed the heads of 16 male breadboard cables, which are cheap and readily available. I took the metal pin from the square plastic housing, and not only is the pin thin enough, they are slightly u-shaped when you look very closely. This allowed solder to travel through the pcb via making for a super secure joint. Plus you get to save the NES chip to fix a dead controller! I can send photos of this if you'd be like. Keep up the good work, this was such a wonderful tutorial video. I had a TG16 system only and didn't want to shell out the high price for an official controller when I had a graveyard of NES spares at my disposal!
Nice work! The answer to your too-much-solder conundrum at 19:40ish is solder wick (aka desoldering braid etc.); I know some people aren’t keen on it for through-hole, but for surface mount I’d call it nearly essential. Just pop it on the blob of solder, maybe flux it slightly, then heat with the iron tip and lift straight up - presto, nice clean pad. Also works if you manage to bridge pins on the IC, say by dragging much too large a blob.
I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but you could probably strip the cable and then hold it together at the opening with heat shrink to make it a little thinner.
I was the photographer for Newsfield publications in the UK. We had a PC engine to review around 1987. I was so impressed with the card holding the game! It was a small unit that you could throw in in an overnight bag. Shame it never took off. NEC never followed through on most of the project
Bit late to this but here’s my though. I’d use Cat 6 cable, as it’s about the same size as the original NES cable. Then fit a Din 8 end, and that saves doing a pin out. Unfortunately there’s no RJ45 to Din 8 adapter to make it a really easy process. This was a great video!
I avoided using SMD components for a long time, until early this year I was forced to do it due to space constraints on the PCB. Soldering that tuff using paste (even if you need to apply it manually and don't have a stencil) and hot air is so much easier to do. Just blob some paste on it, drop the component and blow hot air on it. The components align automaically (you may need to nudge ICs by a row or two if they settle with an offset) For resistorss and capacitors I wouldn't recommend going smaller than 0805 if you are aiming for something you can work on without pick&place machines. It may be doable, but the pain it causes in the lower back increases exponentially with each size you scale it down. ;-) If you got pads close to each other like the IC pins or even the resistors, just drag some paste across all of them at once. Once the paste melts, surface tension will do its job to separate all the joints. It doesn't need to be a fancy SMD hot air rework station, mine is made by a comapny named Atten and cost around 80 bucks. Maybe it wouldn't last as long as a big name brand when used commercially day in and day out, but for a hobbyist who uses that stuff every once in a while, it is definitely okay. If you need two of them during your lifetime, you are still much cheaper than with buying just one big name brand station.
You definitely want the turbo switches. Games like Bonk's adventure are completely different experience with the turbo switches. Especially the first one where you can basically fly using them
Would be more fiddly, but I wonder if it would work to put a pin header in from the top side of the original controller board, flip it over, lay your board on the pins, solder, flip it back over, clip and solder to the original board? For some reason it makes me sad to see an IC go out like that lol Thanks for walking through the surface mount soldering. I've never tried it and find the thought super intimidating.
The problems you had with the first revision were probably because there is no bypass capacitor to filter power to the chip. Yes, even though the second revision didn't seem to have the issue. ;) Also, drag soldering is typically a one or two pass thing where you use a tip that can contact two or more pins at once and let the solder redistribute itself between pins across your tip (tip touching each pin simultaneously). You then "drag" it to leave solder on one pin while introducing another. You add solder to the tip as you go when the pool that follows your tip starts to shrink too much or you encounter areas with no flux. You may end up with too much solder at one end bridging multiple pins. In that case you clean your tip, flux the pins again, and make another pass in the other direction. Your iron will remove some of the excess through its own surface tension and you will get a more even distribution if you didn't get it perfect on the first pass. Stroking all the pins repeatedly to melt a whole side might not keep the solder and flux molten enough to conduct heat and flow through the thru-holes.
As I was younger, I converted my NES-Controller to work with my C64, because I found it much easier to play games with the Pad instead of a clunky Joystick at this time... I was young...
I have a new in box official Apple networking kit that includes one of those cables but I still order 8-pin mini-DIN cables for PC Engine from Console5. :) If you can find the original connector NEC used Console5 cables would plug right on.
Might be easier to get DIMM of any kind from a theater lighting supply, since DIMM is still one of the primary methods of pro digital lighting controls
I know this video is about a year old & it's a little late to ask this. But, if that one cable is to thick why don't you use the one that came out of the controller to begin with??? You wouldn't have to find a cable with 8 conductors in side of it & you wouldn't have any trouble getting it to fit. If you were doing it to have a longer controller cord you could use a little bit of the cord from the Nintendo controller coming out of the mod then switch to the other cord. But, that's awesome!!! Thanks for making the Video!
I'm sure there's people here who already said this but the PC Engine was actually bigger than the Mega Drive for a hot minute. Sega only really hit it big in Japan with the Saturn.
If you're designing a PCB, why not go whole-hog and design a drop-in replacement for the NES controller's board that supports the PCE (thereby not having to permanently sacrifice an NES controller's internals)?
Never found either of the pads awkward. I enjoy both consoles with their own controller. And the turbo switch is mandatory for many games. Try play Kyukyoku Tiger or Daisenpu without it....
So, I can't recall exactly how this worked, but I THINK the turbo feature was implemented as a flip flop that changes state every time the NES scans the controls. Without that clock signal there would be nothing to drive the turbo feature. Don't quote me on this, but I think that's why i decided this wouldn't work with a turbo controller.
if you were to be careful and instead clip the pins of the chip off you could use the short legs to solder the mod board onto your controller withouit dealing with desoldering
i actually have the opposite problem: i bought a pc engine hori pad that is absolutely perfect, the edges are curved perfectly for placing your index fingers on and the buttons have such a satisfying snappiness to them, but the problem is i don't have very many pc engine games but quite a few famicom games. hopefully i can do the reverse to be able to use on the famicom, though for me i'd much prefer an external solution so that i could swap controllers between different systems. then again, the easiest solution would probably be to just buy another controller and call it a day, but where's the fun in that?
Would it be possible to use this board you designed for a *different* controller than the NES, as long as you put the inputs into the correct solder points?
it's been a while since I made this but I'm pretty sure I remember the buttons being simple switch closures, so - yes, it should work with anything that's just plain buttons
Would really appreciate if you could point me to the pinout of the chip if you think it could work. It's not a big deal if it ends up not working, but it would be sweet to try.
@@CathodeRayDude awesome, thanks! I would love to figure out a way to add rails to your board, from the pins on the chip to another array of plates(to wire any controller up to it easily)
A lot of people online are saying that the Turbografx 16 has empty space inside. That’s not true, I have opened one up myself and it has a full motherboard the size of the system. It also has a large metal shield on both sides that is soldered on to the board which makes it heavier.
Awesome design. I'll keep this in mind if I pick up PC engine. Always fascinated by it since I've never heard of it, but have heard of the exclusives for it. I will say, I worked soldering PCBs for a while, and I had a hard time watching. Even sped up, I saw those not wetting and had flashbacks to my first time soldering professionally, instead of replacing a battery for Zelda. Edit: Oh God! The cable stripping.
...which is likely why they renamed it in other regions. ;) Like Europe, Japan had a lot of early PCs that were essentially game consoles, like the X68000 and the MSX/MSX2. It suits that market. Non-IBM/Apple PCs connected to your TV almost as a rule. Heck, some Apple and IBM PCs did too, like the PCjr.
@@TransCanadaPhil Exactly... and the "Engine" or "Core" names for NEC were meant to indicate that it was the central piece of a modular/expandable setup with CD-ROM², ROM² Amp, LCD monitor, RAM cards, etc. Makes sense there.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
First off, thank you so much for this! Just made two controllers for my TG16 and I love them. (Can confirm it works perfectly with the din 8 of the TG 16 as well). I made two discoveries I'd like to share: One; if you have any dead or crappy 3rd party Genesis controllers around, I harvested the cables from two of them for my TG-NES controllers. They have 9 wires and are thin enough to easily fit in the NES strain relief. I just used din 8 plugs from digikey, pinouts are readily available online. Two; instead of attaching the NES chip and clipping the pins, I removed the heads of 16 male breadboard cables, which are cheap and readily available. I took the metal pin from the square plastic housing, and not only is the pin thin enough, they are slightly u-shaped when you look very closely. This allowed solder to travel through the pcb via making for a super secure joint. Plus you get to save the NES chip to fix a dead controller! I can send photos of this if you'd be like.
Keep up the good work, this was such a wonderful tutorial video. I had a TG16 system only and didn't want to shell out the high price for an official controller when I had a graveyard of NES spares at my disposal!
wow, I'm really glad to hear all this! thanks for the info and for trying my mod!
Just make a usb adapter so you can use cheap NES usb controllers on the pc engine and Turbografx 16.
@@orlandoturbo6431 thing about those "cheap NES usb controllers" is they absolutely suck. the goal here is to make a controller that doesn't suck.
Nice work! The answer to your too-much-solder conundrum at 19:40ish is solder wick (aka desoldering braid etc.); I know some people aren’t keen on it for through-hole, but for surface mount I’d call it nearly essential. Just pop it on the blob of solder, maybe flux it slightly, then heat with the iron tip and lift straight up - presto, nice clean pad. Also works if you manage to bridge pins on the IC, say by dragging much too large a blob.
I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but you could probably strip the cable and then hold it together at the opening with heat shrink to make it a little thinner.
I was the photographer for Newsfield publications in the UK. We had a PC engine to review around 1987. I was so impressed with the card holding the game! It was a small unit that you could throw in in an overnight bag. Shame it never took off. NEC never followed through on most of the project
Bit late to this but here’s my though. I’d use Cat 6 cable, as it’s about the same size as the original NES cable. Then fit a Din 8 end, and that saves doing a pin out. Unfortunately there’s no RJ45 to Din 8 adapter to make it a really easy process. This was a great video!
It's insane but I just googled RJ45 to Din 8 and saw some results. I really like your idea.
It's true, the controller for PC Engine makes my thumb so sore after like 10 minutes of play. It's brutal.
Incredible work! You're super smart
I find myself giggling about how your PCB is labeled "Basic Gravis Computer Technology"
as opposed to "Advanced Gravis", who got acquired by Kensington
@@CathodeRayDude I guess technically you could call your mod a Gravis gamepad ;)
This was a delightful video. Thanks for making it!
I avoided using SMD components for a long time, until early this year I was forced to do it due to space constraints on the PCB. Soldering that tuff using paste (even if you need to apply it manually and don't have a stencil) and hot air is so much easier to do. Just blob some paste on it, drop the component and blow hot air on it. The components align automaically (you may need to nudge ICs by a row or two if they settle with an offset)
For resistorss and capacitors I wouldn't recommend going smaller than 0805 if you are aiming for something you can work on without pick&place machines. It may be doable, but the pain it causes in the lower back increases exponentially with each size you scale it down. ;-)
If you got pads close to each other like the IC pins or even the resistors, just drag some paste across all of them at once. Once the paste melts, surface tension will do its job to separate all the joints.
It doesn't need to be a fancy SMD hot air rework station, mine is made by a comapny named Atten and cost around 80 bucks. Maybe it wouldn't last as long as a big name brand when used commercially day in and day out, but for a hobbyist who uses that stuff every once in a while, it is definitely okay. If you need two of them during your lifetime, you are still much cheaper than with buying just one big name brand station.
I assure you, the resistors will work fine upsidedown. Awesome work.
What an awesome resource! I had no idea you could get your own PCBs printed.
You definitely want the turbo switches. Games like Bonk's adventure are completely different experience with the turbo switches. Especially the first one where you can basically fly using them
aw damn I wish those hu-cards had caught on. It's so freaking cute!
Would be more fiddly, but I wonder if it would work to put a pin header in from the top side of the original controller board, flip it over, lay your board on the pins, solder, flip it back over, clip and solder to the original board?
For some reason it makes me sad to see an IC go out like that lol
Thanks for walking through the surface mount soldering. I've never tried it and find the thought super intimidating.
The holes just aren't big enough. Either way is traumatic to one or the other or both
The problems you had with the first revision were probably because there is no bypass capacitor to filter power to the chip. Yes, even though the second revision didn't seem to have the issue. ;) Also, drag soldering is typically a one or two pass thing where you use a tip that can contact two or more pins at once and let the solder redistribute itself between pins across your tip (tip touching each pin simultaneously). You then "drag" it to leave solder on one pin while introducing another. You add solder to the tip as you go when the pool that follows your tip starts to shrink too much or you encounter areas with no flux. You may end up with too much solder at one end bridging multiple pins. In that case you clean your tip, flux the pins again, and make another pass in the other direction. Your iron will remove some of the excess through its own surface tension and you will get a more even distribution if you didn't get it perfect on the first pass. Stroking all the pins repeatedly to melt a whole side might not keep the solder and flux molten enough to conduct heat and flow through the thru-holes.
As I was younger, I converted my NES-Controller to work with my C64, because I found it much easier to play games with the Pad instead of a clunky Joystick at this time... I was young...
I have a new in box official Apple networking kit that includes one of those cables but I still order 8-pin mini-DIN cables for PC Engine from Console5. :) If you can find the original connector NEC used Console5 cables would plug right on.
Solder Wick or a Solder pump even the cheap hand pump ones will be a great way to remove excessive solder and for removal work
I loved playing Bonk! I miss my turbografx16. There were actually quite a few good games.
chipquick works wonders for throughhole ic's, although it is a bit nasty and needs a good cleaning after. Or a hot air station.
1:28 It did pretty good in Japan. Better than the Sega Mega Drive. Was always number 2 after the Super Famicom though.
Well, it was number 1 for years before the Super Famicom. ;) It launched in 1987 and very quickly surpassed the Famicom.
That chip from the NES controller you used the pins off of was made by NEC lol
Excellent ! Have you done a 6 button one ?
I have a couple NES controllers I wired for PC. They work great and you can't beat Nintendo's quality.
Might be easier to get DIMM of any kind from a theater lighting supply, since DIMM is still one of the primary methods of pro digital lighting controls
I know this video is about a year old & it's a little late to ask this. But, if that one cable is to thick why don't you use the one that came out of the controller to begin with???
You wouldn't have to find a cable with 8 conductors in side of it & you wouldn't have any trouble getting it to fit. If you were doing it to have a longer controller cord you could use a little bit of the cord from the Nintendo controller coming out of the mod then switch to the other cord.
But, that's awesome!!! Thanks for making the Video!
I'm sure there's people here who already said this but the PC Engine was actually bigger than the Mega Drive for a hot minute. Sega only really hit it big in Japan with the Saturn.
If you're designing a PCB, why not go whole-hog and design a drop-in replacement for the NES controller's board that supports the PCE (thereby not having to permanently sacrifice an NES controller's internals)?
Ooooh what kind of flux is that you used with the little needle dropper? I've only used the messy paste or marker variant.
believe it's MG no clean!
Never found either of the pads awkward. I enjoy both consoles with their own controller. And the turbo switch is mandatory for many games. Try play Kyukyoku Tiger or Daisenpu without it....
Would it work with other NES controllers? Something that DID have the turbo functions?
So, I can't recall exactly how this worked, but I THINK the turbo feature was implemented as a flip flop that changes state every time the NES scans the controls. Without that clock signal there would be nothing to drive the turbo feature. Don't quote me on this, but I think that's why i decided this wouldn't work with a turbo controller.
if you were to be careful and instead clip the pins of the chip off you could use the short legs to solder the mod board onto your controller withouit dealing with desoldering
the nec four button coontroler is pretty god ive heard
i actually have the opposite problem: i bought a pc engine hori pad that is absolutely perfect, the edges are curved perfectly for placing your index fingers on and the buttons have such a satisfying snappiness to them, but the problem is i don't have very many pc engine games but quite a few famicom games. hopefully i can do the reverse to be able to use on the famicom, though for me i'd much prefer an external solution so that i could swap controllers between different systems. then again, the easiest solution would probably be to just buy another controller and call it a day, but where's the fun in that?
hah! yeah, off the top of my head it SHOULD be possible, it's pretty much the same situation, just inverted.
@Cathode Ray Dude hey, is there any way to contact you?
you can email me at articles@gekk.info !
How do you feel about the nes boomerang controller? Could keep the turbo buttons with that.
The NES Max? No, because the PC Engine adapter board essentiay connects straight to the button contacts, bypassing all the turbo circuitry.
Would it be possible to use this board you designed for a *different* controller than the NES, as long as you put the inputs into the correct solder points?
it's been a while since I made this but I'm pretty sure I remember the buttons being simple switch closures, so - yes, it should work with anything that's just plain buttons
I really want a PC Engine controller with a joystick =) I'm willing to put in the work to find out for sure
Would really appreciate if you could point me to the pinout of the chip if you think it could work. It's not a big deal if it ends up not working, but it would be sweet to try.
@@CathodeRayDude awesome, thanks! I would love to figure out a way to add rails to your board, from the pins on the chip to another array of plates(to wire any controller up to it easily)
@@ShamanNoodles Just make an usb adapter so you can use cheap NES usb controllers on pc engine and Turbografx 16
Just make an usb adapter so you can use cheap NES usb controllers on pc engine and Turbografx 16 similar to Brook Super Converter.
Great board design!
Another great and well informed video that cathode ray dude! Zzzzzzzzap !
Alternate title: Gravis' Gamepad Garage Reopens 😅
19:21 that thing is so tiny!!!!!!!!!
I was thinking you was going to make a complete full size pcb for the nes controller, but designed for the nec chip.
Those chip resistors!
A lot of people online are saying that the Turbografx 16 has empty space inside. That’s not true, I have opened one up myself and it has a full motherboard the size of the system. It also has a large metal shield on both sides that is soldered on to the board which makes it heavier.
Two words: Capacitor/resistor leads.
Bomberman..I see a man of culture :)
25:05 ant in bottom-right
Awesome design. I'll keep this in mind if I pick up PC engine. Always fascinated by it since I've never heard of it, but have heard of the exclusives for it.
I will say, I worked soldering PCBs for a while, and I had a hard time watching. Even sped up, I saw those not wetting and had flashbacks to my first time soldering professionally, instead of replacing a battery for Zelda.
Edit: Oh God! The cable stripping.
Imo don't mess with the case, just heat gun the heck out of that outer sheath and squish it.
Ugh I wish I still had my Turbo
You Fricking Seinfeld YADDA YADDA YADDA'd!?!?!?!??!?!!!
Hey bro. They make a nes controller adapter for the PC engine. eBay it my dude
Sega master system used hue cards
Not that I care in any particular way but did you have a boyfriend about 4 years ago?
I had one twelve years ago, and he passed away.
“pc engine” is a stupid name and i hate it
...which is likely why they renamed it in other regions. ;)
Like Europe, Japan had a lot of early PCs that were essentially game consoles, like the X68000 and the MSX/MSX2. It suits that market. Non-IBM/Apple PCs connected to your TV almost as a rule. Heck, some Apple and IBM PCs did too, like the PCjr.
@@emmettturner9452 remember, even the NES was called the Nintendo "Family Computer" (aka. Famicom) in that region. So yeah, it was common.
@@TransCanadaPhil Exactly... and the "Engine" or "Core" names for NEC were meant to indicate that it was the central piece of a modular/expandable setup with CD-ROM², ROM² Amp, LCD monitor, RAM cards, etc. Makes sense there.