For those curious about mk3 vs mk4 differences and availability of the mk4, heres a post copied from Bill (3d Chameleon) "Ok... there is a lot of confusion about what was shown in that video. It was a preview of our upcoming Mk4 series. The Mk4 will come in two versions... the Mk4 and the Mk4 Pro. The current Mk3 (since October) is identical to the Mk4 (base) except for the firmware, that is the ONLY difference. It was already silently upgraded to the Mk4 hardware back in October. Agian, the only difference will be the firmware, which is, as always, a free upgrade. (All Mk2 and Mk3 users can already print the parts and perform the upgrade to the Mk4 hardware here: www.printables.com/model/354998-3dchameleon-mk4-upgrade-parts-with-ptfe-grip There will be some additional features that are in the Mk4 Pro (which won't be introduced until RMRRF), and that video shows some of them. But, as always, the Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4 will be upgradable to the Mk4 Pro. However, because there is significant new hardware included in that kit, the pricing difference will be charged over the Mk3/Mk4's current $179. Pricing or shipping details of that upgrade are not availabe yet. I hope that clears it up. Bill"
thanks, I was confused about that part. Especially since I just had my Mk3 delivered yesterday! Glad to hear I have the new hardware and can use MK4 firmware when it launches
Bill, I really enjoyed your Nero interaction and the way that you executed this really so simply is is truly wonderful one of the things that I would recommend as well though as is that for the connectors I would just recommend that you probably do something about molding that out as opposed to on the way it is right now so that way it’s just more kind of clean if you will but this is a fantastic upgrade and I’m really excited to hear what you’re doing with the ego orange storm giga. I recently had to back out of my pre-order for that because of some life circumstances but I’m really trying to get my 3-D by j0sh business off of the ground and I intend on doing music related art and your technology will be able to help me realize that dream because honestly the enraged rabbit carrot feeder was something that kind of intimidated me and it seems like this is relatively straightforward, especially with the pro forward upgrade Path So that way we don’t even have to worry about tuning tips and I think that that’s really clutch. it would be nice if this would be packaged in kind of a little assembly or something like a case that basically you just kind of clip or set to side as the AMS would be. My only concern about some of this would be about the extruders that are direct drive. They don’t have a boat and tube going into them, such as the Neptune 4 max. And other than the color, it doesn’t truly change anything about the printer and I think that’s fantastic. The fact that the printer is completely agnostic to the fact that there’s really truly color being changed is something that I honestly honestly would be ideal I did voice to speech on my thoughts were as you’ve read above lengthy. I apologize for any grammatical errors or transcription errors in this. I always love the contact. Thank you Nero! 🤘🏼
Sadly Bill is not telling the truth here. I bought 4 of these last year in Nov/Dec and my TMC drivers are not compatible with the new MK4... So sadly Bill kinda screw me over even though he confirmed via email that my unit would only need upgrading of firmware (but you need the new TMC drivers for MK4 to work properly)...
I agree. I bought one and returned it because directions were tough to follow and I couldn't get it to working at all, much less to point I could run test print, etc
Where can I see actual printing demos for the Mk3 or Mk4? There are a number of build vids but does anyone print with it? All I found were a video of 4 completely separate parts and a flex rex with coolored segments.
Any chance for sources? Their website provides minimal info. Interested in building one but despite being open source I can’t find any info regarding the assembly or hardware requirements. 11:38
I got a Mk3 but never got it working. Tip shaping never worked right, and the DIY filament cutter was janky as heck. It also seemed like the extruder would slip and there was no good way to adjust the tension. I wonder if there's a Mk3 to Mk4 upgrade available. I'd be interested in trying to interface it with klipper, although I'm afraid to throw more money down a hole.
So if am I correct, is this just a multi filament selector? So it doesn't actually "extrude" it just pushes the filament to the printer and the printer does everything? Effectively you tell the printer how many times to press the button, and it does the rest?
So I just bought the Mk3 and realized I don't think I comprehend how to set this thing up. RMRRF is April 21 ish. which is when Bill says the MK4 firmware will be available. Should I wait?
Thanks for all your work Bill! I just got my Mk3 yesterday and have been getting it installed on my K1. Hoping to see more documentation for this printer as I'm having a few troubles getting it to not jam the extruder when swapping colors
I'm not familiar with Bambu Labs' slicer, but it's supposed to be similar to OrcaSlicer, and in that slicer there's an option you can select called "Flush into objects' infill". You turn that setting on, and Prime Tower off, and now it'll only purge inside the infill. No secondary part required, if the part you're printing won't show the colors through the skin (aka "opaque", meaning can't see through the surface at all). The trick Bill mentioned is to have a second, fully opaque (in this case black) part, and you'll have to play with the locations of things on the bed to make sure that secondary part gets printed (and thus purged into) first after each color change... but even that isn't really necessary unless the main part is going to have a slightly translucent (for example, silk filament) skin where the colors inside might be partially visible.
So I just got this for my birthday. I plan on installing it on my newest K1-MAX. I didn't know about the clipper; I need to buy this for install, correct?
This is very interesting to me. I have an AnkerMake M5 and they just announced that they were drooping the multicolor option. I was going to buy a bambu A1 combo, but this is a heck of a lot cheaper, and when the next hot printer comes out 9probably next Wednesday lol) I can just carry this over. I'm not really understanding the point of the cutter though.
It is used to cut a clean edge when pulling the filament back through the PTFE tube so it doesn't get stuck. The filament tends to deform in the hotend and mushroom out.
the limit switch is awesome, it lets you run it on all kinds of printers. BUT, hear me out, id really like it to have a usb interface as well so I can run it on Klipper without installing a switch.
the MCU running the whole think IS klipper compatible, so you could connect it via USB, flash klipper and just control it with a config and macros instead of standalone if you wish
So is there a tutorial on how to do this with klipper somewhere? I’d like to do this on my soon to arrive ratrig … Also for cutting or shaping whatever… (you’ll have to forgive me I don’t have experience with klipper or mmus) is there any way to have it do the cutting or whatever shaping outside of an enclosure? I read somewhere maybe Reddit that servos like that don’t like hot temperatures inside heated chambers…. Of course rat rig is said to have something in the works as far as mmu goes too but figured maybe I could get this chameleon working and then put it on to my modded Enders or something.
So I have a question. I have the k1 as well. Is it worth having the ercf or the chameleon? Of course ercf I've got to build and tune etc, etc, but it's klipper. I assume having this makes it a lot easier althout you only get 4 color with each kit and technically its a bit more expensive( shipping to greece is 55 euros which is fair since its oversees but yikes)
If you have a machine running klipper there is no reason to be looking at one of these. Definately ERCF. Don't get me wrong, the chameleon is pretty cool. The creator is a clever guy. Developing a mmu that can work on any printer is no means feat. However, designing for this purpose has required compromises to be made. Namely in speed. This thing is slow. I don't own one but I did a tonne of research and this is the main complaint with the Chameleon. It is what it is because that's what it has to be to achieve the desired goal. It's early days for the chameleon. With some more development time and community contributions I'm sure it can become much better. The ERCF is designed for klipper, is open source development, is more refined, expandable and customisable, filament swaps are much faster, and will cost you about the same. It's no brainer.
You can get the MK3 now, it has the exact same hardware (minus the klippy add-on). You will be able to upgrade any previous version to the MK4 when it's available, and the newest MK3 would only involve a free firmware update, and you'll be able to upgrade that to the "MK4 Pro" (which includes the klippy but also some other undisclosed upgrades) for a fraction of the pricce (also undisclosed). However, they're waiting to show it off at RMRFF, which isn't until April 21, before announcing the release date, so at the moment we just don't know the actual MK4 release date.
I’m hoping that with the Mk4 firmware that I can actually get mine working. Never got the MK3 to work either. I’ll solder in the new driver chip if that is an option.
I bought a MK2(.5?) and MK3 - neither worked. Am I going to buy MK4 yes... I really like the concept behind the 3D Chameleon. I think Bill is really barking up to the right tree with this design. Look forward to the MK4 release.
hm… how can you just paste a single block of gcode to have the printer switch to specific filaments during print? that doesn't work. You'll have to rewrite the gcode first.
you can setup your slice to use specific gcode commands for filament changes (each color is its own gcode command), so in this case its like "for color 3, move to xyz postion and push button 3 times" etc so when you slice, it`ll bake in the right commands when needed to print
The Mk3 can be upgraded to the Mk4 for free, with downloads to update the firmware and STLs to print the required parts. The "Pro" upgrade will cost a little extra because it'll have more stuff (presumably, the automatic cutter, and possibly more goodies not mentioned yet).
Be warned. The (MK3 version) is for a non-klipper machine. I ended up sending mine back, and was disappointed with support. I did see how well it works on a marlin machine. Just not for klipper applications(edit to include the model)
@@stew675 after looking it up. I had the MK3. But at the time bill (custom support) was unable to help me with anything klipper side. So any buyer should make sure it works specifically with klipper. As the previous model was advertised as works with any printer when it clearly didn't
@@stew675 I would assume so too. But mine clearly did not. I hope they have some better support for the mk4 , as my response for help was answered with he's never used klipper and it should just work. They also charge a restocking fee of 20% which was my fault for not checking before ordering.
to bad all these things he is talking about still are not available and the code is generated for only prusa slicer do not expect to just get this and do a couple things and have it work he makes it sound super simple and it is not
@williamsteele 7 days ago The printed parts are Mk4... the kits are Mk3 because that's where the software and the electronics rev is at. I ask the question 7 days ago and got this response from Bill Steele. This video makes it even more confusing. Goodluck with this messed up version marking.
For those curious about mk3 vs mk4 differences and availability of the mk4, heres a post copied from Bill (3d Chameleon)
"Ok... there is a lot of confusion about what was shown in that video. It was a preview of our upcoming Mk4 series.
The Mk4 will come in two versions... the Mk4 and the Mk4 Pro. The current Mk3 (since October) is identical to the Mk4 (base) except for the firmware, that is the ONLY difference. It was already silently upgraded to the Mk4 hardware back in October. Agian, the only difference will be the firmware, which is, as always, a free upgrade. (All Mk2 and Mk3 users can already print the parts and perform the upgrade to the Mk4 hardware here: www.printables.com/model/354998-3dchameleon-mk4-upgrade-parts-with-ptfe-grip
There will be some additional features that are in the Mk4 Pro (which won't be introduced until RMRRF), and that video shows some of them. But, as always, the Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4 will be upgradable to the Mk4 Pro. However, because there is significant new hardware included in that kit, the pricing difference will be charged over the Mk3/Mk4's current $179. Pricing or shipping details of that upgrade are not availabe yet.
I hope that clears it up.
Bill"
thanks, I was confused about that part. Especially since I just had my Mk3 delivered yesterday!
Glad to hear I have the new hardware and can use MK4 firmware when it launches
Bill, I really enjoyed your Nero interaction and the way that you executed this really so simply is is truly wonderful one of the things that I would recommend as well though as is that for the connectors I would just recommend that you probably do something about molding that out as opposed to on the way it is right now so that way it’s just more kind of clean if you will but this is a fantastic upgrade and I’m really excited to hear what you’re doing with the ego orange storm giga. I recently had to back out of my pre-order for that because of some life circumstances but I’m really trying to get my 3-D by j0sh business off of the ground and I intend on doing music related art and your technology will be able to help me realize that dream because honestly the enraged rabbit carrot feeder was something that kind of intimidated me and it seems like this is relatively straightforward, especially with the pro forward upgrade Path So that way we don’t even have to worry about tuning tips and I think that that’s really clutch. it would be nice if this would be packaged in kind of a little assembly or something like a case that basically you just kind of clip or set to side as the AMS would be. My only concern about some of this would be about the extruders that are direct drive. They don’t have a boat and tube going into them, such as the Neptune 4 max. And other than the color, it doesn’t truly change anything about the printer and I think that’s fantastic. The fact that the printer is completely agnostic to the fact that there’s really truly color being changed is something that I honestly honestly would be ideal I did voice to speech on my thoughts were as you’ve read above lengthy. I apologize for any grammatical errors or transcription errors in this. I always love the contact. Thank you Nero! 🤘🏼
For those that upgraded back in Sept 2022 to the MK3, not last year, does it mean that the hardware is too old for the new MK4?
Sadly Bill is not telling the truth here. I bought 4 of these last year in Nov/Dec and my TMC drivers are not compatible with the new MK4... So sadly Bill kinda screw me over even though he confirmed via email that my unit would only need upgrading of firmware (but you need the new TMC drivers for MK4 to work properly)...
Now we just need someone like teaching tech to make a proper tutorial and I will 100% buying
Chris Riley is currently making a series on the MK4, his presentations are pretty good.
I agree. I bought one and returned it because directions were tough to follow and I couldn't get it to working at all, much less to point I could run test print, etc
@DaveWW00 you bought a mk 4 ?
@@D_DeimosI only found mk3 build at Chris channel
Build the Mk4 Chameleon in one of your stream, that would be so awesome !!!
Incredible, I was there for 2 days and somehow missed this booth! Hope somebody makes a klipper guide soon!
Where can I see actual printing demos for the Mk3 or Mk4? There are a number of build vids but does anyone print with it? All I found were a video of 4 completely separate parts and a flex rex with coolored segments.
This is actually genius. So much thought went into this
Any chance for sources? Their website provides minimal info.
Interested in building one but despite being open source I can’t find any info regarding the assembly or hardware requirements. 11:38
I got a Mk3 but never got it working. Tip shaping never worked right, and the DIY filament cutter was janky as heck.
It also seemed like the extruder would slip and there was no good way to adjust the tension.
I wonder if there's a Mk3 to Mk4 upgrade available. I'd be interested in trying to interface it with klipper, although I'm afraid to throw more money down a hole.
Spoke with Billy at SMRRF and the guy is super nice. The whole extruder arrangement using only 2 steppers is very clever.
i still havent come across someone installing this on mk4, i own one, so waiting for proper instructions.
The mk4 seams pretty well engineered. keep it simple is key. thanks for this presentation.
Very nice. Glad to see continued progression of this.
i want the mk4 version. looks cool
This thing is badass. I may just go this route rather than ercf. Seems alot more simple and wouldnt have to build a voron toolhead
So if am I correct, is this just a multi filament selector? So it doesn't actually "extrude" it just pushes the filament to the printer and the printer does everything? Effectively you tell the printer how many times to press the button, and it does the rest?
I really like this!!!
So I just bought the Mk3 and realized I don't think I comprehend how to set this thing up. RMRRF is April 21 ish. which is when Bill says the MK4 firmware will be available. Should I wait?
AS soon as you have a klipper model available with macros so you can run it off a large board like the BTT Octo I'm in!
Man, this background behind you is SICK! ❤ It would be insane to actually 3D Print pieces and make it real 😂
Thanks for all your work Bill! I just got my Mk3 yesterday and have been getting it installed on my K1.
Hoping to see more documentation for this printer as I'm having a few troubles getting it to not jam the extruder when swapping colors
Ordered mine last week. Can’t wait to get this going.
I've always had machines that have a color change device but this version of the Chameleon looks fantastic for those that don't!
❤ this guys energy, look at his smile.
Please find a distributor in europe
I really look forward to seeing real-world tests of the Mk 4! Chop chop ! 😅
This looks like a really great improvement for user setup and ease of use!
1:19 got i love that he became an official 3D-Printing MEME 😂🤭
Absolutly amazing!
A custom purge block is GENIUS! I want to learn how to do that on my AMS.
I'm not familiar with Bambu Labs' slicer, but it's supposed to be similar to OrcaSlicer, and in that slicer there's an option you can select called "Flush into objects' infill". You turn that setting on, and Prime Tower off, and now it'll only purge inside the infill. No secondary part required, if the part you're printing won't show the colors through the skin (aka "opaque", meaning can't see through the surface at all). The trick Bill mentioned is to have a second, fully opaque (in this case black) part, and you'll have to play with the locations of things on the bed to make sure that secondary part gets printed (and thus purged into) first after each color change... but even that isn't really necessary unless the main part is going to have a slightly translucent (for example, silk filament) skin where the colors inside might be partially visible.
I was not interested in mmu printing until now I think I might get this thing.
So I just got this for my birthday. I plan on installing it on my newest K1-MAX. I didn't know about the clipper; I need to buy this for install, correct?
Nero! have you thought about doing a video on getting klipper notifications to your phone setup? That would be interesting to see.
Game changer.... Fantastic!
sadly they don't sell in my location in the Philippines
Awesome work!!!
I wonder what kind of speed and torque the servo has? Can that be replaced with almost any servo? Like a Futaba high torque/high speed servo..
This is very interesting to me. I have an AnkerMake M5 and they just announced that they were drooping the multicolor option. I was going to buy a bambu A1 combo, but this is a heck of a lot cheaper, and when the next hot printer comes out 9probably next Wednesday lol) I can just carry this over.
I'm not really understanding the point of the cutter though.
It is used to cut a clean edge when pulling the filament back through the PTFE tube so it doesn't get stuck. The filament tends to deform in the hotend and mushroom out.
That is pretty cool, going to have to get one.
the limit switch is awesome, it lets you run it on all kinds of printers. BUT, hear me out, id really like it to have a usb interface as well so I can run it on Klipper without installing a switch.
the MCU running the whole think IS klipper compatible, so you could connect it via USB, flash klipper and just control it with a config and macros instead of standalone if you wish
@@CanuckCreator oh ... OH ... ILL TAKE 2 PLEASE
So is there a tutorial on how to do this with klipper somewhere? I’d like to do this on my soon to arrive ratrig … Also for cutting or shaping whatever… (you’ll have to forgive me I don’t have experience with klipper or mmus) is there any way to have it do the cutting or whatever shaping outside of an enclosure? I read somewhere maybe Reddit that servos like that don’t like hot temperatures inside heated chambers…. Of course rat rig is said to have something in the works as far as mmu goes too but figured maybe I could get this chameleon working and then put it on to my modded Enders or something.
Is this available to purchase?
@DavidR8 bro what?
good job :)
So I have a question. I have the k1 as well. Is it worth having the ercf or the chameleon? Of course ercf I've got to build and tune etc, etc, but it's klipper. I assume having this makes it a lot easier althout you only get 4 color with each kit and technically its a bit more expensive( shipping to greece is 55 euros which is fair since its oversees but yikes)
If you have a machine running klipper there is no reason to be looking at one of these.
Definately ERCF.
Don't get me wrong, the chameleon is pretty cool. The creator is a clever guy. Developing a mmu that can work on any printer is no means feat.
However, designing for this purpose has required compromises to be made. Namely in speed. This thing is slow. I don't own one but I did a tonne of research and this is the main complaint with the Chameleon. It is what it is because that's what it has to be to achieve the desired goal.
It's early days for the chameleon. With some more development time and community contributions I'm sure it can become much better.
The ERCF is designed for klipper, is open source development, is more refined, expandable and customisable, filament swaps are much faster, and will cost you about the same. It's no brainer.
Great Video..thank you for putting it togethter....
Very clever
Very clever, indeed.
Hexagons are the best polygons.. I like the setup!
This is stupidly and absurdly smart… i want one!
Well, the website lists the MK4 at a closeout price of $129, sold out. Bummer.
When will it release?
You can get the MK3 now, it has the exact same hardware (minus the klippy add-on). You will be able to upgrade any previous version to the MK4 when it's available, and the newest MK3 would only involve a free firmware update, and you'll be able to upgrade that to the "MK4 Pro" (which includes the klippy but also some other undisclosed upgrades) for a fraction of the pricce (also undisclosed). However, they're waiting to show it off at RMRFF, which isn't until April 21, before announcing the release date, so at the moment we just don't know the actual MK4 release date.
Never could get my chameleon to work, the documentation and instructions are pretty poor
I’m hoping that with the Mk4 firmware that I can actually get mine working. Never got the MK3 to work either. I’ll solder in the new driver chip if that is an option.
The coolest mod I’ve seen in 3D printing
I bought a MK2(.5?) and MK3 - neither worked. Am I going to buy MK4 yes... I really like the concept behind the 3D Chameleon. I think Bill is really barking up to the right tree with this design. Look forward to the MK4 release.
hm… how can you just paste a single block of gcode to have the printer switch to specific filaments during print? that doesn't work. You'll have to rewrite the gcode first.
you can setup your slice to use specific gcode commands for filament changes (each color is its own gcode command), so in this case its like
"for color 3, move to xyz postion and push button 3 times"
etc
so when you slice, it`ll bake in the right commands when needed to print
It'd be nice to have this added to something like OrcaSlicer, which supports a lot of this stuff already. They usually take patches ;)
@@CanuckCreator
I've been thinking about adding an AMS to my p1p but this is much better. I'll definitely be picking up the MK4 when it's available.
The site only shows the mk3 no mention of the mk4
mk4 soon
(couple of weeks last i heard)
This guy is amazing
Love that dude, bought a Mark 3, haven't used it yet, may just get a Mark 4 and skip the Mark 3, maybe donate it to someone here locally.
The Mk3 can be upgraded to the Mk4 for free, with downloads to update the firmware and STLs to print the required parts. The "Pro" upgrade will cost a little extra because it'll have more stuff (presumably, the automatic cutter, and possibly more goodies not mentioned yet).
@@richard3365 That's good to know, thank you for the heads up.
new to be, but really well thought!
It would be interesting for my FLsun V400 :-D
I can't wait for the MK4, I really want to get it for my SV06!
Same for my SV06 too! Just need to figure out how to mount it and where to mount a bracket to hold all the spools
Be warned. The (MK3 version) is for a non-klipper machine. I ended up sending mine back, and was disappointed with support. I did see how well it works on a marlin machine. Just not for klipper applications(edit to include the model)
You had the MK4?
@@stew675 after looking it up. I had the MK3. But at the time bill (custom support) was unable to help me with anything klipper side. So any buyer should make sure it works specifically with klipper. As the previous model was advertised as works with any printer when it clearly didn't
What issue did you have with Klipper? Given how the device works I fail to see how the firmware you use for your printer could possibly matter
@BobFromCalifornia the video shows the MK4 on a Creality K1, which is Klipper, so I'd say it's a reasonable assumption that it works with Klipper
@@stew675 I would assume so too. But mine clearly did not. I hope they have some better support for the mk4 , as my response for help was answered with he's never used klipper and it should just work. They also charge a restocking fee of 20% which was my fault for not checking before ordering.
👍
Heyy nice Head(Amame) headphones!
I just received today my mk3 3dchameleon... (:
anything is possible through G code
to bad all these things he is talking about still are not available and the code is generated for only prusa slicer do not expect to just get this and do a couple things and have it work he makes it sound super simple and it is not
lol. “Cheaper than a Bambu AMS”
At least the Bambu AMS works.
Lol, thought it was some Prusa MK4 clone from the title
If Nero3D responds to this I will be happy
k
Hi
@williamsteele
7 days ago
The printed parts are Mk4... the kits are Mk3 because that's where the software and the electronics rev is at. I ask the question 7 days ago and got this response from Bill Steele. This video makes it even more confusing. Goodluck with this messed up version marking.