Thank you for these videos. This is a concept called mechanical sympathy. Understanding how a system works in order to prolong lifetime of components. This higher lever of understanding makes you a better operator.
You would need two sticks too. So you can pick the gears for every clutch. Also you would at least have to press 1 clutch pedal at all time. While shifting, both. So you would need another leg to do that.
Or simply buy a manual and do whatever you like without worrying A Japanese one or even Hyundai rather than the German or American ones, good piece of mind
***** thats your opinion right in my opinion, Automatics are annoying to drive its down to personal preference really but in all honesty, Ive found manuals to be easier to maintain and repair than automatics
@@krisg822 You shouldn't be able to money shift a dsg or any decently designed dct. The computer won't downshift if it sees that the rpm would be past redline/fuel cutoff point.
@@joeyn177i specifically watched this video because when i was trying it out in my car it wouldn’t let me go from 2nd to 1st when i was coming to a red light. car knows better lok
With a manual I tend to use the clutch to get me to speed and then disengage it completely, so I can roll and maintain the speed for a while without constant wear.
That's why DCTs(Especially DSG) are destroyed quickly in Turkey(mainly Istanbul), Russia(mainly Moscow) and China due to inch to inch traffic. - (btw DSG has extended warranty over these areas.)
Hey Jason this is a fantastic video! I just picked up my first car ever with a DSG and knowing about the ECUs favoring towards gears depending on driving behavior is great to know, otherwise, I could see myself getting frustrated with a delay when wanting to downshift to accelerate.
It took me several months to learn how to predict the actions of my Hyundai Tucson's DCT. Once you master the art of understanding the quirks, it is an awesome transmission. Great video! I really enjoyed watching it and you really nailed it. I am a senior level experienced Automotive Technician by trade and I found the DCT hard to master. You explain the logic or the DCT so well in this video. I really like your channel.
Guys i have a question.. my tucson 2019 when engine is started, i must just very gently press the acceleration petal for some meters and then accelerate! If i try to drive immediately, it starts to push like trying to find the speed and to doesnt fully engage to the D1 etc for some seconds. My CLatch disks are brand new. Is it normal?
I've discovered that my Renault Megane isn't experiencing wild Turbo Lag. Each one of your descriptions happen on occasion like pulling up to a Give Way sign and then flooring it and getting nothing. The clutch has disengaged expecting a stop, just as at the same moment that you have decided to go, or there's a slight slipping when you're edging forward to enter a roundabout and you are just starting to apply some power. To be honest this is a real relief and I know to modify my driving to better suit the Car.
Good information! Most of these newer vehicles have Hill Start Assist now that leaves the clutch disengaged and holds the brakes for you until you accelerate going forward.
Well it's not noob start since you can't engage the clutch while you stand still pressing brake |(tested on a Renault Edc). That means you will slip down in the time car sees you have depressed the brake and alow clutch to engage. Anyway it's a must have since on a lot of cars you can't putt traction before complete release of the brake.
Except it doesn't work on my car and I randomly roll backwards towards the car behind me. I've already rammed a parked car behind me while shifted into DRIVE!
I used to own a Vauxhall/Opal Mokka (2014) which had 'hill start assist'. It worked once or twice. I now own a Nissan Qashqai (2017), which also has 'hill start assist'. This one actually works on every incline. All the same ones, that the Mokka didn't work.
I have 2.0 focus powershift chiped and removed filter about 190plus hp and driven 263000 kilometers. Not a single problem.. Best car i ever had. Regular mantained transmision with best oil and filter. Even my reckles starts didnt affect transmision a little. Maybe you just need luck
JayTac1 Money Americans will pay more for an SUV thus more money a manufacturer has to build an SUV Cars have more of a global market. So competition is pretty stiff. So the profit per car is lower. That is why Ford makes shity cars and is dropping out of the car manufacturing business. And going mostly SUVs
Hyundai's DCT, being a dry clutch, won't handle as much power as the Genesis Coupe's engines. I hope that their upcoming 8-speed dual clutch is a wet clutch designed for performance, as opposed to these 6- and 7-speed DCT's designed for economy.
I feel dual clutch makes more sense in Europe since you’d be surrounded by manual transmission drivers, who don’t inch along nearly as much as in North America ( watch heavy traffic videos in London). They seem to all collectively move for 40-50 feet at a time than stop with their manuals. Secondly, if you live in Europe or Germany driving a VW DSG for example it would probably cost you half as much to repair relatively speaking. I’m sure dsg repair in U.S, Canada or India for example costs an arm and a leg.
@@x_Oeuf Haha you're right! My GTI has those exact wheels, I just didn't notice. I was trying to figure out if the front and rear bumper paint match the rest of the car or not, can't tell if it's lighting or bad paint job. paint on the bumpers look slightly darker and less vibrant. Go to 6:24 for good example at the rear quarter panel and rear bumper.
"...engineers who develop these cars smart enough to realise that problem...": doesn't surprise me how a lot of people in comment sections don't realise that, especially in regards to auto start/stop and engine starter motors.
They do realize it. Thing is, they don't care. The more these things break, the more money goes to the dealers. That's a win for them... My biggest problem with the start stop is not the starter itself. You need a bigger battery, that will die sooner, and will be more expensive to replace. And it also doesn't help cars with dual mass flywheels. Another expensive thing that will wear out sooner when using start stop.
auto start/stop in non hybrid vehicles is annoying and dangerous and should be eliminated or the vehicle should have the option to have it permanently disabled. Everyone I know (yeah, I know...not a good sample) hates that "feature" in their car. Plus, my car tells me at idle with the AC blasting I'm burning .4 gallons per hour. Lets assume that's accurate. Two and a half hours of idling to save one gallon of gas is a lot of damn idling for what seems, even in aggregate, to be a minimal savings. /rant
Doctor Professor Can't argue with that:) I can only throw engineers a bone in that most recalls seem to be from manufacturing defects (Some of Takata's canisters being cracked and GE's Airbus A380 engine's having an oil pump which was manufactured smaller than the Airbus engineer ordered, causing a fire in a Qantas airline).
Thanks so much. I was annoyed with my 2017 Focus SE Hatch, because it had low speed jerks and lag on shift when a light goes red to green. I thought it was a regular automatic. I got a service ticket back from the dealership that said 6spd powershift. That cleared everything up for me and I learned to not inch here, which I had been doing since there's some traffic where I live. Great vid!
This is great, just brought a Tucson months ago and I have been doing all those good practices, only dont know abouy is number 3 but now I know ! Thanks
Very interesting because there were several issues you described that are not the same with a PDK double clutch transmission. First, the RPM will rise to about 3500 RPM and stay there until you release the brake. Next, Porsche says there is no limit to how many times you can do this in a row without over temping the system. It would be interesting if they would talk to you after you drive a 991.1 Porsche to see the difference. The 991.2 is turbo charged so it may be different there.
@@andersriksson100 This comment was four years ago so its hard for me to remember the context, but I think I was saying in my 2012 911 if you slammed the gas peddle down it would go to 3500 before the clutch would tighten. That would not happen on normal starts.
Launch a car is still hard on the car. All that this video is saying is thay in a normal dct you shouldnt do x activities without being aware of the wear being done. This is the equivalent of saying you shouldnt slam the breaks everytime you stop, yeah any decent car should be able to do that for a long time, but any normal person would in fact agree that its not best practice
Brilliant Jason! After driving manual transmissions all my life, I'm about to buy a DSG. Glad to have seen this! I LOVE your channel. Please keep 'em coming! All the best, Rob
In my wife's 2012 TDI Golf with wet clutch DSG, I shift into neutral at the lights, as the fuel usage indicates that it actually uses less fuel in neutral than with the foot on the brake whilst in gear. In a tank of fuel, I've found it can make between 0.5 and 1 ltr per 100km difference.
I noticed the same effect with my late Golf 6 GTI. The technical reason was that switching to neutral turned the hydraulics pump off that provides the oil pressure for the clutch packs. If switching to neutral was harmful this setting wouldn't exist or would be blocked like switching to reverse while driving. The only thing that could happen in my opinion is that turning off the oil pump on a boiling hot gearbox could lead to overheating since the oil is not only hydraulics medium but also cooling medium.
@@MetalheadAndNerd the oil pump will keep running, but the pressure control solenoids for the clutches will be set to zero pressure. You'll still get circulation and cooling. And less heat will be going into the fluid from the clutch packs. That extra fuel consumption in drive is basically heating up the fluid.
This actually cleared up a lot of my concerns with my 2016 Hyundai Sonata's transmission performance. The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes it hesitates too much, or when I'm slowing down, it downshifts in a way that isn't very smooth.
#2 - In many modern vehicles, there is an automatic brake engaged when you are on an incline. The dashboard has a green light that is a picture of a foot on a brake pedal with a circle around it to indicate it's engaged. In that case, feel free to take your foot off the brake.
In my car i have to press the brake pedal to a certain depth for the brake to engage. It's convenient once you get used to it's and actually useful, as opposed to the annoying engine auto stop at red lights which sometimes stops the engine while the car is rolling ... thankfully it can be turned off.
I’ve had a Dual Clutch Transmission Honda motorcycle for 4 years now and really like it. The bike accelerates quicker and gets up to speed a lot quicker I could shifting through the gears. The great thing is that you only need to do is hold the throttle open the whole time. There are two automatic modes, D-Mode for economy, S-Mode for sport and a MT-Mode for Manual operation. There are paddle shifters on the left control pod easily accessible using your index finger and thumb. The clutches full disengage when at a stop with some resistance to prevent the bike to roll back easily. Some careful throttle twisting can simulate feathering the clutch, once you get the hang of it.
A small comment regarding tip #1 - "No need to put it in neutral when stopped because clutch auto-disengages." This is true however the car holding the clutch dissengaged at the lights when the car is stopped does represent and engine and the clutch system under a tiny bit more strain than if placed in neutral. On my VW Passat it is evident when watching the fuel consumption reading whilst stopped at the lights - with the transmission in Drive but stationary, fuel consumption is (0.7 L/hr) if I flick it into Neutral fuel consumption drops (0.6-0.5 L/hr). Clearly a little less strain on the car, pressumably because for example the thrust bearing isn't pressing to release the clutch plates. I practice this even if utilising the engine stop./start feature because I figure the starter will have a slightly easier time starting the engine if it doesn't have to fight the strain of also a depressed clutch. These are just carry-over thoughts from driving classic manual cars, but perhaps I'm I being too anal?!
Thank you so much for the time you put into these videos. They're honestly very informative. I do have a general understanding as to how cars work. But not a clue when it comes to the engineering and design. I really do appreciate the information. I just purchased a new 2017 Kia Forte 5 SX. And your videos have really showed me how to take care of it and keep it on the road for as long as possible.
In 2005 I bought an Audi TT with DSG, the second year that dual clutch auto-shifts were ever available from any manufacturer. About 2 years later it started acting up. It was shifting weird. The wrong gear, or not shifting when it normally would... just screwy. I though, oh, jeez- I bet servicing this new fangled DSG is gonna set me back. It turned out to be a $45 brake light switch. Because of the faulty brake light switch the computer could not reliably tell if I was accelerating or braking, so it was constantly pre-selecting the wrong gear. Replaced the switch and the transmission was perfect, again. From this I learned that I can get better performance from the DSG by giving it clear indications of my intent... whether I mean to slow down, speed up, cruise, or go like a bat outta hell by not riding the brake, not driving two footed, and simply being positive in either throttle or braking. 15 years of daily driving this transmission has never given me a single issue.
Have to look into this, my DSG hiccups I’ve noticed really only ever happen whenever brakes are applied, or if it’s on an uphill at top gear and the revs are too low
The DSG dual-clutch has built-in creep, and it keeps the operating clutch fully engaged. This is a design feature, not a consequence of the design technology. It is perfectly OK to creep in it, controlling the speed with light braking.
That won't cause significant clutch wear on the wet-clutch versions, but it *will* do so on the dry-clutch versions of the DSG (i.e., on the 1.2, 1.4, 1.5 TSI engines).
I absolutely love the PDK box in my 991, but probably for different reasons =) Driving a standard automatic as a daily, the difference in shifting speed always makes me grin.
Three years in to having the same 8 speed DCT in my Hyundai Veloster N and my Hyundai Santa Cruz. 9000 miles on the Veloster N mostly track miles. A lot of them using TrackSense shifting. No issues. The Santa Cruz has been used to tow the Veloster to tracks that are a few hundred miles away. No issues.
Dual Clutch is a lot more like a traditional manual transmission. They generally use heliacal gears. The big difference is that you have 2 shafts, one inside another. these 2 shafts have the cogs for every other gear. So the inner shaft might have 1, 3, 5, 7 and the outer will have 2, 4, 6. The transmission uses small motors to move sleeves which can pre-engage 2 gears at once. For example sitting at a stop both 1st and 2nd gear will be engaged. Now to connect that to the engine, you have 2 clutches, one for each shaft. When you hit the gas, the computer engages the clutch for 1st gear, then once it comes time for 2nd, it releases the first clutch and engages the 2nd. Once the 2nd clutch is engaged, a motor moves the sleeve from 1st gear and pre-engages 3rd. Then when it comes time to shift from 2nd to 3rd, it simply releases the 2nd clutch and engages the 1st again.
3:44: "you shouldn't downshift while ON the accelerator pedal," With due respect that statement is incorrect, you should absolutely press on the accelerator and downshift simultaneously when you need acceleration for example to pass the vehicle ahead in the shortest possible time. In practice I normally press the accelerator just a split second before the downshift in order to get the smoothest/quickest change. If you had left it on auto mode ('D') and press on the accelerator enough, the electronic logic will simply do this for you instead. I think what you really meant is you shouldn't downshift if you keep your foot steady on the accelerator.
Exactly. Thank you for this. I was confused as well. The logic follows that if you apply more throttle than you were before, the car is anticipating that it needs to deliver more power and therefore downshift to a more appropriate gear. The only time that the vehicle is going to anticipate an upshift while under throttle is if it's being accelerated gently and it's planning on upshifting for fuel economy, or if it's approaching redline. Otherwise, like any automatic, applying extra throttle, especially if it's substantial (~35% or more), is going to indicate that you're asking for more power and it will downshift accordingly. Applying extra throttle while driving a DSG, while in 4th at 4000rpm in manual mode for example, indicates that the car may need to deliver more power and downshift, therefore prepping 3rd gear instead of 5th, and smoothing out/speeding up the downshift. The inclination of someone coming from a manual transmission may be to let off the gas, as that's what you'd do before a shift, but for a DSG, increasing throttle will tell it you're planning on downshifting and will prep the lower gear accordingly. This really smooths/speeds up downshifts on a MK7 GTI, for example, as my experience and many threads corroborate.
Love my Turbo Veloster. That DCT really makes it fun to drive to work. I definitely experience a lot of hesitation at lower speeds, like if I'm going through a school zone, as the RPM tend to shift between the ranges it wants to shift up and down, so sometimes if I haven't manually selected a gear, it'll shift up and down out of second and third. I'll remember not to inch to my stop next time though!
Did you read the manual? they designed it to be that way lol They made it where it stays so you can downshift quicker, Its a track car, but if you put your foot down the car will boost forward. So if you drive N mode or N custom. It will stay between 3 and 4 at around 30mph. If you drive in the normal mode, at that same speed it will be at 6 lol. but yeah read the manual you'll learn so much about your car.
@@zenxen7668 he said DCT as if he has driven the N model before. Perhaps he owns two cars or knows someone with an N. Regardless. Good idea for any car owner to read the manual.
@@therealsechs Both the Turbo and N comes with dcts and 6spd standards so that’s why he mentioned it but yea I get where you’re coming from though and agree about the owners manual thing
Extremely interesting. I'm thinking of buying a Honda Motorcycle with a dual clutch automatic transmission. I really didn't quite understand it's operation until your excellent explanation. Thanks.
Don't buy a automatic motorcycle, that completely ruins the purpose of a motorcycle, and also, although you may not care much as I don't, people will laugh at you.
My take (and I could be off here), DCT works really well with a hybrid/PHEV train like Hyundai/Kia have in several cars. Creeping along in traffic, it puts you in gear 1 or 2, the electric motor is driving it non-slip, and the engine is disengaged with the engine clutch. Even with a depleted hybrid battery, a newer Hyundai/Kia hybrid will start the engine and run up to ~15 MPH in a 'series' HEV mode (HSG creating volts, battery and EV motor consuming them) to save DCT wear. You could almost think of that buffering as the equivalent in electrons to the buffer of a fluid torque converter.
Good video! Stuff I already knew, being familiar both with the mechanics and the programming logic, but really glad to see this info getting out there in an easy to digest format. Many people I talk to driving dual clutch cars and not realizing that it IS NOT the same as an automatic. Then they wonder why the clutch pack is shot in 30k miles, and they think it’s a bad car... when no, it’s the automotive equivalent of PEBKAC. ;-) While I am a manual aficionado, having driven a couple of Porsche PDKs and VW DSGs, I can see the appeal for the more engaged driver who doesn’t necessarily want to (or maybe can’t due to disability) work the third pedal. I find they are vastly superior for an enthusiast driver than a torque converter slushbox or a super-slush CVT. They have the direct engaged feeling of a manual, and I really like that as a driver.
I once drove a Veloster with a Dual Clutch and basically I got excited when we got the Veloster N (manual) to drive instead. From my experience the dual clutch I drove would jerk around at slow speeds and felt sloppy. I'd much prefer to just clutch myself. These larger cars suffer from similar jerkiness at slow speeds. (I work at a Hyundai dealer so I drive a lot of this stuff on a weekly basis).
The dct on the vw golf gti I test drove felt really jerky and slow. On the 6 spd version, at least it shifts instantly and smoother whenever I throw the shifter in whatever gear I want it in
@@AIDAHAR210 It’s mostly the tcu’s fault. I have a mk7 golf gti with the dsg and I got a tcu tune as soon as I got it and most of the jerkiness is gone.
If you pull away slowly in auto, the gearbox switches over to 2nd before the revolutions are high enough, but the clutches keeps slightly disengaged to keep you acceleration smooth. In such a condition, do not suddenly floor the accelerator (before it properly engaged 2nd at about 1800 rpm), because the engine is going to transfer a lot of power to a slightly disengaged gearbox, which will put a lot of friction and ultimately wear on the clutches. It will wear out the clutches much faster, or may result in shuddering due to an imperfect setting of the gearbox slippage factor.
Always love your videos. You educate me. I just got a used CC with DSG and I’m getting used to it. Knowing how to drive stick, and Motorcoaches with ZF transmissions, the feathering and rpm play a big factor of a smooth ride. I get a noise out of the low end of acceleration but I think it’s the chain tensioner that needs to be replaced.
I recall when I learned to drive with a dual clutch, it was driving me crazy as to what the car was doing, compared to traditional automatic transmissions which has natural intuitive shifting points.
And are MUCH more reliable long term. Not too mention easier too drive. Especially, for those who have never driven a manual before. Why Hyundai put a wet clutch DCT in the new turbo Santa Fe is beyond me. They should have just stuck with the normal 8 speed auto the SEL and lower trims have. I see A LOT of problems arising from these new trannies wet or dry clutch. They are just not reliable.
Jason congrats on this awesome video. I totally agree with everything you say, but the thing is that I have a motorcycle with an automatic DCT transmission and I can feel that when I am stopped at the lights with first gear engaged it is constantly trying to pull forward. It's just a little bit, barely noticeable, but is there. So just in case I always select neutral when at the lights or at any significant stopped time, even with the fact that the manufacturer says not related recommendation at the user manual, just to prevent any long term wear to the clutches, specially to the first gear one.
The inching fwd makes sense to me now! My wife had a Dodge Dart with the 1.4t and ddct trans. Whenever we would get caught in heavy stop n go traffic for long periods of time, there would be a burning smell and minor smoke developing from the engine bay. We even had the shut down on us one time (prob due to the clutch overheating). These cars should be built to withstand any type of typical driving condition though. FCA has since dialed back the number of Darts with that come 1.4t/ddct combo.
Most cars with a dual clutch transmission have a hill holder feature that applies the brakes when you let off the brake pedal to the accelerator when stopped on a hill. Otherwise, the car rolls back like in a manual car.
Point 1 (0:30) - well surely if you're "coming to a stop", you would likely shift into neutral anyway so you can engage the handbrake / parking brake? It's interesting that here in the UK you're recommended - at night time at least - to engage neutral and apply the handbrake to avoid dazzling drivers behind with your tail lights. Obviously if you're only stopping for a few seconds, holding on the brake pedal isn't a problem.
Ever since I watched an onboard cam on an F1 race car, I've wanted an electric servo shifted dual clutch transmission. Now I have 1, a 7 speed, and got it for cheap!
Interestingly, F1 cars don't have dual clutch transmissions (they are banned). They have single clutch transmissions which are just synchronised to shift really fast. (You get a gear soup of broken bits if the synchronisation is off!)
Jason, my experience with my ‘13 S4 is clutch is the clutch is binary, either disengaged when brake on or, upon releasing brake, quickly fully engaged. Engagement does not seem to use any slipping mode, counting on the low 1st ratio to make the transition smooth enough. Fly is when you hit the gas quickly in an up hill scenario, then engine speed gets elevated above idle before the clutch closes, resulting in a jerk motion. Also about no slip evident in a launch (only did that once!) as pretty violent on the drive train when no wheel spin to absorb the overload.
Great video. Question: what if you have to creep while in Reverse? Is that equally as bad as creeping forward? It sounds pretty dangerous if you have to always accelerate when in Reverse.
DCTs generally have a low first gear and an even lower reverse. You don't need to use the accelerator to creep. If there's room, just let the brakes off completely, and the clutch will fully engage, and the car will move forward slowly or backwards even more slowly. Less than walking speed in my car.
+Engineering Explained This isn't accurate for all dual clutches. I have an Audi S5 (7 speed dual wet clutch) and it DOES NOT release the clutch when waiting at a stop light with the foot on the brake. This is confirmed in my car by multiple things: - you can feel the engine trying to pull. Moving the lever to N causes a slight movement and you can hear the engine quite down - instant consumption is about 1.9L/h. Moving the lever to N causes it to instantly drop to about 1.2L/h - releasing the brake causes the car to move absolutely instant, there is not even a ms of delay, it is quite obvious that it was already pushing - my local dealer confirmd I should move to N when waiting for longer periods of time. I don't know if this difference is because I have wet clutches compared to the dry ones in your test vehicle, but it feels like something you should mention in your video. Also, regarding launching the car, many cars equipped with dual clutch gearboxes have launch control.
Interesting, could certainly be a different process for wet DCTs, as well as different automakers. I know VW dry clutches will fully disengage when you come to a stop, dunno about their wet.
I am a mechanical engineer, designing dual clutch and gear shift systems for such transmissions for the OEMs, and even I hate driving them (traditional autos, automatic manual transmissions, cvts, you name it). It’s much more involving and fun to drive a manual car than to press some paddles when you feel for it. But it’s not for the lazy. And if you compete professionally it’s probably also not for you. It’s kind of like electric motors vs internal combustion engines, if you really are into cars, you’ll love ICE but if you’re just into stats on a paper or having the latest technology, you like electric. This is a fact, everyone who disagrees are clearly wrong.
Between conventional auto that gear hunts vs CVT that keep the motor at the proper rpm... CVT for me if I'm getting automatic. If fun is what you're after, then I personally think you should be in a manual transmission car.
You say that, but having driven a CVT.... you want it to "drop down" for more torque, but it doesn't. Instead it looks for the best MPG even if you're foot to the floor trying to merge into high speed traffic without getting run over. TERRIBLE. GF has a Nissan CVT and it is a dog.
I really like this channel and i already learned a lot from it or it confirmed what i already have known but i maybe wasn't 100 % sure about, but it could be much better for me as a European guy if u would use metric units (too) so i don't need to quote anything to get an idea about it.
With a wet clutch DCT, if you're going to be stationary for a long time it's probably better to select neutral. On my car the trip computer shows litres per hour when stopped and in neutral its 0.6, in drive sitting still its 0.8 This would likely be due to viscosity drag of the fluidl between the multiple wet plates, and would be putting heat into the fluid.
Wonderfully explained! About the inching forward, in traffic one is supposed to inch forward, otherwise other people try to cut you off and get in front. Does this mean that a dual-clutch isn't a very good option of one frequently drives in high traffic? Also, I'd really appreciate if you could make a similar video for CVT transmissions as a growing number of vehicles are now starting to have CVTs. Cheers!
You can inch forward just fine. But you do it slightly differently. You allow a little space to form, not so big someone can jump in, but maybe a car length. Then you take your foot off the brake completely. The car will idle forward slower than walking speed but with the clutch fully engaged. Then you stop. It's really not hard.
@@alanjm1234 back when I commented that I was in India and anything more than a hand’s length meant that someone is going to cut me off. Sometimes even a hand was too much. It literally was “bumper to bumper” traffic. This is my biggest hesitation with a DCT, that for those types of traffic, it might heat up a lot.
I have a question. Should you use a manual shifting feature regularly on a dual clutch vehicle? In example, will it be bad for your car if you shift at different speed and rev compared to when it's on a automatic mode?
And these, ladies and gentlemen, are the reasons why cars and trucks makers are moving away from that dual clutch craze and going back to either torque converters in 2019. Less costly to manufacture, and to maintain. And with modern locking torque converters, the performance and fuel economy is about the same anyway. The fabulous and well renowned ZF 8HP automatic transmission, which is used in many cars and trucks of different brands, is a torque converted one.
I’ve just bought an MG HS and your video explained pretty much what I need to be aware off. I just need to better understand how to not overheat my clutch when I’m stuck on an incline hill 😓 still my frustration. The other day I almost rolled back
+dha12oks RUclips managed to figure out that you got a new car and suggested these videos lol. What kind of car did you get if you don't mind my asking? :D
I don't know but the delay on moving after brake release makes it very hard to manage scenarios where you really need the car to respond(e.g entering a really tough intersection/lane), it also makes it quite hard to do micro adjustments when parking through tight places.
SevereTstormFan what you do is: 1 see the car in front move 2 wait 2-3 seconds at most 3 get on your accelerator to get rolling 4 get back on the brakes to stop again Simple. Ive gotta do the same in a manual. You get used to it. Or do what the other guy says and move to Kentucky. Id go to Kentucky too - mmmmm bourbon country
Nice vid out there! Learned a lot from this. But I have questions regarding point no.3 which is about inching forward. It's best to allow enough gap to get up speed for the clutch to fully engage. But, how fast is fast? Is it like 10-15mph or higher? Or 1-2k rpm? Look forward for the answers. Thanks and keep it up with those great quality videos!
"Don't inch forward" LOL... so here's a transmission that's essentially incompatible with driving in any large city. Just kidding, of course, that's an exaggeration; but it does go to show just how valuable a torque converter (or hybrid) can be.
Frank Reading Well, only if it's taken literally. He's not saying you should *never*, under any circumstances creep forward in a DCT-equipped car, just that doing it regularly may wear the clutch faster (i.e. "never always creep forward"). EE is a smart guy, makes tons of great videos. Dual-clutch transmissions are really cool, but I think this is probably a valid criticism of them... and I'm honestly kinda surprised that they're becoming so commonplace now. For regular, city or suburban driving with lots of stops and starts, a torque converter has distinct advantages. DCTs are a natural fit for any performance-oriented car and hybrids, where the electric motor can handle low-speed duty, but for a Hyundai Tucson? Seems kinda silly.
***** To be fair, we don't really know how fragile most DCTs will end up being yet either. VW's DSG has been around the longest and has multiple well-documented issues, but I feel like that could be said about almost everything VW builds. There's a big movement right now to make engines smaller and more efficient without compromising performance and I think that's cool. I'm excited for 2-cylinder 500cc engines turbocharged out the wazoo. A DCT gives you impossibly fast shift times and reduced mechanical losses, so that's where Hyundai is coming from with them and I understand that... thing is, modern automatics really aren't that far off from DCTs in performance or efficiency; especially in something like a compact sedan or CUV. 0-60 and MPG are going to come down to fractional differences between an Tucson with an automatic and a Tucson with a DCT - something that 99% of the people buying them will never notice. Maybe I'm wrong and their clutches will prove strong enough, and their computers "smart" enough to avoid excessive slip and still feel linear behind the wheel, but only time will tell!
as a long standing hyundai tech I can tell you in my shop the transmission that provides hyundai with the fewest problems is by a wide margin the DCT. Since the Veloster DCT ive seen exactly 2 DTC transmission failures in 5 years at a dealership level. But you're probably right.
There's a tiny bit of confusion here. As long as the first gear engages fully, there's no problem with creeping. You could try this out in a manual car to see how fast you are going when fully engaged to first gear with low engine rpm. In a dual clutch system this practically means that you should not creep by lifting the brake pedal a little i.e. move slower than the first gear allows. Creep on, but when creeping just lift the brake completely.
clear and logical as always, thank you E E. so many problems with machines occur because operators don't understand how they work. You explain it very well.
The flaw in these transmissions is when you are coasting along at about 40 mph and it predicts that the next change will be up. You suddenly need a quick burst of power when you get an opportunity to overtake and the delay is terrifying. These systems are considered unsafe to use in high speed police pursuit vehicles for that reason. Ambulance drivers are having the same problem.
I was caught in snow and stop and go traffic, lot of breaking and going slow, all the sudden got a warning tone and message the my transmission was over heating. Called the dealer they told me to leave space between me and the car in front of me to fully engage the clutch or to pull the car over and let it cool down for 20 minutes. Say what? That just seems to be a design flaw, did they not take in to consideration a lot of consumers buying these are city drivers in lots of stop and go traffic. Had I know this I would have thought twice about buying the car. Love it otherwise but this is a big issue. I worry what kind of damage this causes over time.
@@Off3er Probably :D This has nothing to do with this, but I got a good heart attack while working and my forklift stalled. That thing weights like 5 tons and the handbrake is useless. It locks the steering wheel and I was there just watching as the lifter slowly rolled towards the end of the hill...... Luckily it stopped like 10cm before it was too late.
If you press the gas and the brakes at the same time your car will take a screenshot.
hahahahaha
I’m dead 😂🤣😂🤣
That's gotta get a LOL
You are right! Hahaha
Nice one..lol.....
Number 6: don't breathe inside the car, the difference in air pressure and moisture causes unnecessary wear on the clutch
Lol😂😂😂😂😂
I just wanted to look up on how to use paddle shifters ; - ;
peanut butter and jelly The right one shifts up in the left one shifts down
I knew I was doing something wrong by breathing - thanks for the helpful info 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
To minimise wear on the clutch "do not start" the engine, has the added benefit of prolonging engine life!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for these videos. This is a concept called mechanical sympathy. Understanding how a system works in order to prolong lifetime of components. This higher lever of understanding makes you a better operator.
Interesting concept. I definitely do that without having heard that term before !
Nice to have a name to put with the intuitive (to some) concept.
What a lovely concept "mechanical sympathy". I totally get it. Thank you for this comment.
Seriously? That’s not a real term
Who said it first?
One clutch is enough for me. Man can you imagine driving with two clutch pedals? No thank you
I hope that's sarcasm right there
MIKEK3NT I'm glad you picked up on it
Can you imagine the heel/toe for that???
LOOOOL, genius
You would need two sticks too. So you can pick the gears for every clutch.
Also you would at least have to press 1 clutch pedal at all time. While shifting, both.
So you would need another leg to do that.
I really like these "don't do in a" series, I've learned quite a bit, please keep doing them!
Or simply buy a manual and do whatever you like without worrying
A Japanese one or even Hyundai rather than the German or American ones, good piece of mind
***** thats your opinion right
in my opinion, Automatics are annoying to drive
its down to personal preference really
but in all honesty, Ive found manuals to be easier to maintain and repair than automatics
***** looks like we two are the only ones here saying imo and not fighting here :D
+Karthik Naik just an FYI I do own a manual for my cars and do most of my own work, doesn't mean I can't learn something from someone else.
James Karl I replied to your comment instead of someone elses
0:26 - 1st
1:12 - 2nd
2:45 - 3rd
3:42 - 4th
5:55 - 5th
Hero
King
according to the thumbnail, you can't upshift
LUQEMON “stay in first the entire time, upshifting will disengage and reengage the clutch and cause ware, ignore the tachometer, it doesn’t matter”
@@krisg822 You shouldn't be able to money shift a dsg or any decently designed dct. The computer won't downshift if it sees that the rpm would be past redline/fuel cutoff point.
@@krisg822 The VW dsg will not downshift if it believes it will cause damage. Try downshifting at 7k rpm, nothing will happen.
Lol that’s why I watched this video, I was like uh oh how bad have I fucked up
@@joeyn177i specifically watched this video because when i was trying it out in my car it wouldn’t let me go from 2nd to 1st when i was coming to a red light. car knows better lok
I can't tell if this guy is 20 or 40.
Like hell. He's ageless.
Pretty obvious he isn't 40.
Pretty obvious he isn't 20.
Jason Fenske is 29
Charlie maybe he’s in between
age engineering at work
"Try not to inch forward too much."
RIP city drivers...
Also literally how a manual works like if I “inch up” my foot never comes off the clutch
@@jackpot1864 I'm the guy in 1st chugging along like a Rubicon rock climbing, tends to piss people off but I find it amusing.
With a manual I tend to use the clutch to get me to speed and then disengage it completely, so I can roll and maintain the speed for a while without constant wear.
Its me, i am city drivers
That's why DCTs(Especially DSG) are destroyed quickly in Turkey(mainly Istanbul), Russia(mainly Moscow) and China due to inch to inch traffic. - (btw DSG has extended warranty over these areas.)
Hey Jason this is a fantastic video! I just picked up my first car ever with a DSG and knowing about the ECUs favoring towards gears depending on driving behavior is great to know, otherwise, I could see myself getting frustrated with a delay when wanting to downshift to accelerate.
It took me several months to learn how to predict the actions of my Hyundai Tucson's DCT. Once you master the art of understanding the quirks, it is an awesome transmission. Great video! I really enjoyed watching it and you really nailed it. I am a senior level experienced Automotive Technician by trade and I found the DCT hard to master. You explain the logic or the DCT so well in this video. I really like your channel.
I'm getting used to my Mazdas dct...at first i thought i had a problem with it...
Took me about 4 months to learn my DCT in my 2018 M140i
@@PARlS23 lol thats not even a dct in a m140i. its a ZF8
Guys i have a question.. my tucson 2019 when engine is started, i must just very gently press the acceleration petal for some meters and then accelerate! If i try to drive immediately, it starts to push like trying to find the speed and to doesnt fully engage to the D1 etc for some seconds. My CLatch disks are brand new. Is it normal?
how is your DTC at 2023 reliable?
I've discovered that my Renault Megane isn't experiencing wild Turbo Lag. Each one of your descriptions happen on occasion like pulling up to a Give Way sign and then flooring it and getting nothing. The clutch has disengaged expecting a stop, just as at the same moment that you have decided to go, or there's a slight slipping when you're edging forward to enter a roundabout and you are just starting to apply some power. To be honest this is a real relief and I know to modify my driving to better suit the Car.
Good information! Most of these newer vehicles have Hill Start Assist now that leaves the clutch disengaged and holds the brakes for you until you accelerate going forward.
*Noob start assist.
Well it's not noob start since you can't engage the clutch while you stand still pressing brake |(tested on a Renault Edc). That means you will slip down in the time car sees you have depressed the brake and alow clutch to engage. Anyway it's a must have since on a lot of cars you can't putt traction before complete release of the brake.
Except it doesn't work on my car and I randomly roll backwards towards the car behind me. I've already rammed a parked car behind me while shifted into DRIVE!
FordTechMakuloco you're here?! I love your videos too. Thumbs up.
I used to own a Vauxhall/Opal Mokka (2014) which had 'hill start assist'. It worked once or twice.
I now own a Nissan Qashqai (2017), which also has 'hill start assist'. This one actually works on every incline. All the same ones, that the Mokka didn't work.
6. If your dual clutch transmission was made by Ford, trade in your vehicle for another brand immediately.
They definitely fucked that one up. Ford has pretty decent vehicles, but that powershit tranny ruined those cars.
For real! I'm still taking a beating on it.
I have 2.0 focus powershift chiped and removed filter about 190plus hp and driven 263000 kilometers. Not a single problem.. Best car i ever had. Regular mantained transmision with best oil and filter. Even my reckles starts didnt affect transmision a little. Maybe you just need luck
david 1 what filter???
@@jridder89 oil filter inside transmision
thank you, I just bought the veloster 2019 with 7 speed dual clutch and those information will be usefull !! good video
Can someone explain why Hyundai puts a dual clutch in an suv and a slushbox in the gen coupe. Wtf.
JayTac1
Money
Americans will pay more for an SUV
thus more money a manufacturer has to build an SUV
Cars have more of a global market. So competition is pretty stiff. So the profit per car is lower.
That is why Ford makes shity cars and is dropping out of the car manufacturing business. And going mostly SUVs
Hyundai's DCT, being a dry clutch, won't handle as much power as the Genesis Coupe's engines. I hope that their upcoming 8-speed dual clutch is a wet clutch designed for performance, as opposed to these 6- and 7-speed DCT's designed for economy.
JayTac1 facts
I feel dual clutch makes more sense in Europe since you’d be surrounded by manual transmission drivers, who don’t inch along nearly as much as in North America ( watch heavy traffic videos in London). They seem to all collectively move for 40-50 feet at a time than stop with their manuals. Secondly, if you live in Europe or Germany driving a VW DSG for example it would probably cost you half as much to repair relatively speaking. I’m sure dsg repair in U.S, Canada or India for example costs an arm and a leg.
@@skopa1223 Or you could just get a proper stick, dispense with all the complexity, expense, and bother, and have more fun driving in the bargain.
Hey, glad you made a video on this. I need to make sure my GTI is treated with love.
My thoughts exactly
Fun fact: that hyundai has the same wheels as some GTI 😐
@@x_Oeuf Haha you're right! My GTI has those exact wheels, I just didn't notice. I was trying to figure out if the front and rear bumper paint match the rest of the car or not, can't tell if it's lighting or bad paint job. paint on the bumpers look slightly darker and less vibrant. Go to 6:24 for good example at the rear quarter panel and rear bumper.
Ewww why would you get a GTI in anything but manual? Do you hate driving?
@@CyseTV cause DSG transmissions are fast asf
Without a doubt, the best explanation of the DSG system,
"...engineers who develop these cars smart enough to realise that problem...": doesn't surprise me how a lot of people in comment sections don't realise that, especially in regards to auto start/stop and engine starter motors.
Great example!
Bigger mistakes have been made... often depends on which car company we are talking about!
They do realize it. Thing is, they don't care. The more these things break, the more money goes to the dealers. That's a win for them...
My biggest problem with the start stop is not the starter itself. You need a bigger battery, that will die sooner, and will be more expensive to replace. And it also doesn't help cars with dual mass flywheels. Another expensive thing that will wear out sooner when using start stop.
auto start/stop in non hybrid vehicles is annoying and dangerous and should be eliminated or the vehicle should have the option to have it permanently disabled.
Everyone I know (yeah, I know...not a good sample) hates that "feature" in their car.
Plus, my car tells me at idle with the AC blasting I'm burning .4 gallons per hour. Lets assume that's accurate. Two and a half hours of idling to save one gallon of gas is a lot of damn idling for what seems, even in aggregate, to be a minimal savings.
/rant
Doctor Professor Can't argue with that:) I can only throw engineers a bone in that most recalls seem to be from manufacturing defects (Some of Takata's canisters being cracked and GE's Airbus A380 engine's having an oil pump which was manufactured smaller than the Airbus engineer ordered, causing a fire in a Qantas airline).
Thanks so much. I was annoyed with my 2017 Focus SE Hatch, because it had low speed jerks and lag on shift when a light goes red to green. I thought it was a regular automatic. I got a service ticket back from the dealership that said 6spd powershift. That cleared everything up for me and I learned to not inch here, which I had been doing since there's some traffic where I live. Great vid!
I reported your video for being the best informative and straight to the point video on the internet.
This is great, just brought a Tucson months ago and I have been doing all those good practices, only dont know abouy is number 3 but now I know ! Thanks
Every time I click on your videos I'm confident that you tell real facts and good info and that there's no clickbait whatsoever.
Based on the thumbnail you should never upshift 🤷♂️
@@yhelloh LOL
Very interesting because there were several issues you described that are not the same with a PDK double clutch transmission. First, the RPM will rise to about 3500 RPM and stay there until you release the brake. Next, Porsche says there is no limit to how many times you can do this in a row without over temping the system. It would be interesting if they would talk to you after you drive a 991.1 Porsche to see the difference. The 991.2 is turbo charged so it may be different there.
@ChuckJ1944 😂 That's in launch mode not standard mode. Do you really think a Porsche leaves the green light at 3500 rpm all the time!?
@@andersriksson100 This comment was four years ago so its hard for me to remember the context, but I think I was saying in my 2012 911 if you slammed the gas peddle down it would go to 3500 before the clutch would tighten. That would not happen on normal starts.
Launch a car is still hard on the car. All that this video is saying is thay in a normal dct you shouldnt do x activities without being aware of the wear being done. This is the equivalent of saying you shouldnt slam the breaks everytime you stop, yeah any decent car should be able to do that for a long time, but any normal person would in fact agree that its not best practice
Brilliant Jason! After driving manual transmissions all my life, I'm about to buy a DSG. Glad to have seen this! I LOVE your channel. Please keep 'em coming! All the best, Rob
It's been 7 years, how did that dsg workout for you
In my wife's 2012 TDI Golf with wet clutch DSG, I shift into neutral at the lights, as the fuel usage indicates that it actually uses less fuel in neutral than with the foot on the brake whilst in gear. In a tank of fuel, I've found it can make between 0.5 and 1 ltr per 100km difference.
In the owners manual of a dsg it says to not shift into neutral when coming to a stop 😅
I noticed the same effect with my late Golf 6 GTI. The technical reason was that switching to neutral turned the hydraulics pump off that provides the oil pressure for the clutch packs.
If switching to neutral was harmful this setting wouldn't exist or would be blocked like switching to reverse while driving. The only thing that could happen in my opinion is that turning off the oil pump on a boiling hot gearbox could lead to overheating since the oil is not only hydraulics medium but also cooling medium.
@@MkGti-si5pq Didn't read that in my wife's car. Could because it was diesel and a wet clutch, not petrol and dry clutch...
@@MetalheadAndNerd the oil pump will keep running, but the pressure control solenoids for the clutches will be set to zero pressure. You'll still get circulation and cooling. And less heat will be going into the fluid from the clutch packs. That extra fuel consumption in drive is basically heating up the fluid.
@@MkGti-si5pq "when coming to a stop" would mean don't coast in neutral. Once stopped you can definitely select neutral.
This actually cleared up a lot of my concerns with my 2016 Hyundai Sonata's transmission performance. The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes it hesitates too much, or when I'm slowing down, it downshifts in a way that isn't very smooth.
He said “clutch” 44 times by my count if anyone’s interested
if it wasn't a video for dual clutch transmission he'd probably say "clutch" 22 times
drinking game
Thanks for this. My Veloster was frustrating me to no end, but now at least I understand why.
#2 - In many modern vehicles, there is an automatic brake engaged when you are on an incline. The dashboard has a green light that is a picture of a foot on a brake pedal with a circle around it to indicate it's engaged. In that case, feel free to take your foot off the brake.
In my car i have to press the brake pedal to a certain depth for the brake to engage. It's convenient once you get used to it's and actually useful, as opposed to the annoying engine auto stop at red lights which sometimes stops the engine while the car is rolling ... thankfully it can be turned off.
Just got GTI DSG. Time to watch this video
"Who's that guy talking to himself in his car in the woods?"
I’ve had a Dual Clutch Transmission Honda motorcycle for 4 years now and really like it. The bike accelerates quicker and gets up to speed a lot quicker I could shifting through the gears. The great thing is that you only need to do is hold the throttle open the whole time. There are two automatic modes, D-Mode for economy, S-Mode for sport and a MT-Mode for Manual operation. There are paddle shifters on the left control pod easily accessible using your index finger and thumb. The clutches full disengage when at a stop with some resistance to prevent the bike to roll back easily. Some careful throttle twisting can simulate feathering the clutch, once you get the hang of it.
“Wet clutch...” Giggity.
Love it 😂
you forgot "shaft" Giggity. haha
Madam, is your clutch wet?
This made me love my old school manual transmission even more. Thank you! ;-)
I've just bought a car with a DCT and I've watched this whole video, thanks for the information it's all very important stuff to know.
Take a shot everytime he says clutch
Foundere annnnd I’m dead
Foundere 😂
Well that was fun for 10 seconds... Now I'm drink...*drunk*
ROFL ... instant cirrhosis . Lol
Over 25
Thank you for this video!!! I was one that asked for a DSG video! Much appreciated!
A small comment regarding tip #1 - "No need to put it in neutral when stopped because clutch auto-disengages." This is true however the car holding the clutch dissengaged at the lights when the car is stopped does represent and engine and the clutch system under a tiny bit more strain than if placed in neutral.
On my VW Passat it is evident when watching the fuel consumption reading whilst stopped at the lights - with the transmission in Drive but stationary, fuel consumption is (0.7 L/hr) if I flick it into Neutral fuel consumption drops (0.6-0.5 L/hr).
Clearly a little less strain on the car, pressumably because for example the thrust bearing isn't pressing to release the clutch plates.
I practice this even if utilising the engine stop./start feature because I figure the starter will have a slightly easier time starting the engine if it doesn't have to fight the strain of also a depressed clutch.
These are just carry-over thoughts from driving classic manual cars, but perhaps I'm I being too anal?!
With VCDS linked to a vehicle with DSG there is pressure being applied to the odd gears clutch when stopped tho.. roughly 30-35psi
Thank you so much for the time you put into these videos. They're honestly very informative. I do have a general understanding as to how cars work. But not a clue when it comes to the engineering and design. I really do appreciate the information. I just purchased a new 2017 Kia Forte 5 SX. And your videos have really showed me how to take care of it and keep it on the road for as long as possible.
how is your car now?
In 2005 I bought an Audi TT with DSG, the second year that dual clutch auto-shifts were ever available from any manufacturer. About 2 years later it started acting up. It was shifting weird. The wrong gear, or not shifting when it normally would... just screwy. I though, oh, jeez- I bet servicing this new fangled DSG is gonna set me back. It turned out to be a $45 brake light switch. Because of the faulty brake light switch the computer could not reliably tell if I was accelerating or braking, so it was constantly pre-selecting the wrong gear. Replaced the switch and the transmission was perfect, again. From this I learned that I can get better performance from the DSG by giving it clear indications of my intent... whether I mean to slow down, speed up, cruise, or go like a bat outta hell by not riding the brake, not driving two footed, and simply being positive in either throttle or braking. 15 years of daily driving this transmission has never given me a single issue.
Have to look into this, my DSG hiccups I’ve noticed really only ever happen whenever brakes are applied, or if it’s on an uphill at top gear and the revs are too low
The DSG dual-clutch has built-in creep, and it keeps the operating clutch fully engaged. This is a design feature, not a consequence of the design technology. It is perfectly OK to creep in it, controlling the speed with light braking.
That won't cause significant clutch wear on the wet-clutch versions, but it *will* do so on the dry-clutch versions of the DSG (i.e., on the 1.2, 1.4, 1.5 TSI engines).
Only dual clutch I’ve ever driven is Volvo’s I-Shift. It’s incredible. It is also one of the very few automated manuals that I actually enjoy.
I absolutely love the PDK box in my 991, but probably for different reasons =) Driving a standard automatic as a daily, the difference in shifting speed always makes me grin.
Three years in to having the same 8 speed DCT in my Hyundai Veloster N and my Hyundai Santa Cruz. 9000 miles on the Veloster N mostly track miles. A lot of them using TrackSense shifting. No issues. The Santa Cruz has been used to tow the Veloster to tracks that are a few hundred miles away. No issues.
Can you do an "Automatic vs dual clutch" video ? Great work btw !
+ChinnuWoW dual clutch and your traditional automatic are different
Dual Clutch is a lot more like a traditional manual transmission. They generally use heliacal gears. The big difference is that you have 2 shafts, one inside another. these 2 shafts have the cogs for every other gear. So the inner shaft might have 1, 3, 5, 7 and the outer will have 2, 4, 6. The transmission uses small motors to move sleeves which can pre-engage 2 gears at once. For example sitting at a stop both 1st and 2nd gear will be engaged. Now to connect that to the engine, you have 2 clutches, one for each shaft. When you hit the gas, the computer engages the clutch for 1st gear, then once it comes time for 2nd, it releases the first clutch and engages the 2nd. Once the 2nd clutch is engaged, a motor moves the sleeve from 1st gear and pre-engages 3rd. Then when it comes time to shift from 2nd to 3rd, it simply releases the 2nd clutch and engages the 1st again.
RogueRAZR Thanks man
+She doesn't know $#!+ yeah, you're so manly. Woman love you and children look up to you because you drive manual exactly
They look up to you because you are Chuck Norris and you kick ass and have a cool beard :)
3:44: "you shouldn't downshift while ON the accelerator pedal," With due respect that statement is incorrect, you should absolutely press on the accelerator and downshift simultaneously when you need acceleration for example to pass the vehicle ahead in the shortest possible time. In practice I normally press the accelerator just a split second before the downshift in order to get the smoothest/quickest change. If you had left it on auto mode ('D') and press on the accelerator enough, the electronic logic will simply do this for you instead. I think what you really meant is you shouldn't downshift if you keep your foot steady on the accelerator.
I was confused to when he said that.
Exactly. Thank you for this. I was confused as well. The logic follows that if you apply more throttle than you were before, the car is anticipating that it needs to deliver more power and therefore downshift to a more appropriate gear. The only time that the vehicle is going to anticipate an upshift while under throttle is if it's being accelerated gently and it's planning on upshifting for fuel economy, or if it's approaching redline. Otherwise, like any automatic, applying extra throttle, especially if it's substantial (~35% or more), is going to indicate that you're asking for more power and it will downshift accordingly. Applying extra throttle while driving a DSG, while in 4th at 4000rpm in manual mode for example, indicates that the car may need to deliver more power and downshift, therefore prepping 3rd gear instead of 5th, and smoothing out/speeding up the downshift. The inclination of someone coming from a manual transmission may be to let off the gas, as that's what you'd do before a shift, but for a DSG, increasing throttle will tell it you're planning on downshifting and will prep the lower gear accordingly. This really smooths/speeds up downshifts on a MK7 GTI, for example, as my experience and many threads corroborate.
Excellent video. I just bought a Tuscon 1.6 T with DCT and this is by far the best video I have found on DCT’s and how they work. Thank you
Could you do a video that explains everything you said?
Lmfao
I don’t think you should be driving a sports car if you don’t understand these things.
@@cristopherflores6195 That's why you shouldn't be thinking
Love my Turbo Veloster. That DCT really makes it fun to drive to work. I definitely experience a lot of hesitation at lower speeds, like if I'm going through a school zone, as the RPM tend to shift between the ranges it wants to shift up and down, so sometimes if I haven't manually selected a gear, it'll shift up and down out of second and third. I'll remember not to inch to my stop next time though!
Did you read the manual? they designed it to be that way lol They made it where it stays so you can downshift quicker, Its a track car, but if you put your foot down the car will boost forward. So if you drive N mode or N custom. It will stay between 3 and 4 at around 30mph. If you drive in the normal mode, at that same speed it will be at 6 lol.
but yeah read the manual you'll learn so much about your car.
@@therealsechs he said veloster turbo not veloster N lol the turbo is not a track car
@@therealsechs Nor does it have any ‘N’ modes to speak of because well… it isn’t an N
@@zenxen7668 he said DCT as if he has driven the N model before. Perhaps he owns two cars or knows someone with an N.
Regardless. Good idea for any car owner to read the manual.
@@therealsechs Both the Turbo and N comes with dcts and 6spd standards so that’s why he mentioned it but yea I get where you’re coming from though and agree about the owners manual thing
Boy, 2 million subscribers!!!
I'm not surprised. YOU ARE GOOD!
Man, I freaking appreciate you and your videos!!!
Extremely interesting. I'm thinking of buying a Honda Motorcycle with a dual clutch automatic transmission. I really didn't quite understand it's operation until your excellent explanation. Thanks.
Please tell me that it is the CTX700?
Arturo, It is the CTX700. I've been saving up for a year. Getting close to being able to go get one. Do you like the CTX700?
We're on the same page. I *love* that motorcycle. Pretty soon buying one too!
Great! Thanks Arturo. Hope you get one soon too.
Don't buy a automatic motorcycle, that completely ruins the purpose of a motorcycle, and also, although you may not care much as I don't, people will laugh at you.
My take (and I could be off here), DCT works really well with a hybrid/PHEV train like Hyundai/Kia have in several cars. Creeping along in traffic, it puts you in gear 1 or 2, the electric motor is driving it non-slip, and the engine is disengaged with the engine clutch. Even with a depleted hybrid battery, a newer Hyundai/Kia hybrid will start the engine and run up to ~15 MPH in a
'series' HEV mode (HSG creating volts, battery and EV motor consuming them) to save DCT wear. You could almost think of that buffering as the equivalent in electrons to the buffer of a fluid torque converter.
7:10 - I have a question: what's the meaning of life?
Friend bought a DCT car 2 years ago defended his purchase by citing these techniques.
He's now on his second gearbox.
what brand & model?
2016 Hyundai Tucson 141 Bhp 1.7 diesel with DCT and zero problems after 40.000 km’s . Very easy to drive and mostly less than 7l/ 100 km
Good video! Stuff I already knew, being familiar both with the mechanics and the programming logic, but really glad to see this info getting out there in an easy to digest format. Many people I talk to driving dual clutch cars and not realizing that it IS NOT the same as an automatic. Then they wonder why the clutch pack is shot in 30k miles, and they think it’s a bad car... when no, it’s the automotive equivalent of PEBKAC. ;-)
While I am a manual aficionado, having driven a couple of Porsche PDKs and VW DSGs, I can see the appeal for the more engaged driver who doesn’t necessarily want to (or maybe can’t due to disability) work the third pedal. I find they are vastly superior for an enthusiast driver than a torque converter slushbox or a super-slush CVT. They have the direct engaged feeling of a manual, and I really like that as a driver.
I’m interested in an Audi TT so I had to watch this
Nice clear video - with so much uniformed information it's great to see nice succinct and clear facts and statements.
I once drove a Veloster with a Dual Clutch and basically I got excited when we got the Veloster N (manual) to drive instead. From my experience the dual clutch I drove would jerk around at slow speeds and felt sloppy. I'd much prefer to just clutch myself. These larger cars suffer from similar jerkiness at slow speeds. (I work at a Hyundai dealer so I drive a lot of this stuff on a weekly basis).
The dct on the vw golf gti I test drove felt really jerky and slow. On the 6 spd version, at least it shifts instantly and smoother whenever I throw the shifter in whatever gear I want it in
@@AIDAHAR210 It’s mostly the tcu’s fault. I have a mk7 golf gti with the dsg and I got a tcu tune as soon as I got it and most of the jerkiness is gone.
just do a neutral drop
genuinely had me lol
tack it up and slam in gear
LOL
why dont you just take your gearbox out of your car and beat it with a sledgehammer
If you pull away slowly in auto, the gearbox switches over to 2nd before the revolutions are high enough, but the clutches keeps slightly disengaged to keep you acceleration smooth. In such a condition, do not suddenly floor the accelerator (before it properly engaged 2nd at about 1800 rpm), because the engine is going to transfer a lot of power to a slightly disengaged gearbox, which will put a lot of friction and ultimately wear on the clutches. It will wear out the clutches much faster, or may result in shuddering due to an imperfect setting of the gearbox slippage factor.
Always love your videos. You educate me. I just got a used CC with DSG and I’m getting used to it. Knowing how to drive stick, and Motorcoaches with ZF transmissions, the feathering and rpm play a big factor of a smooth ride. I get a noise out of the low end of acceleration but I think it’s the chain tensioner that needs to be replaced.
did you ever figure out what the noise was?
I recall when I learned to drive with a dual clutch, it was driving me crazy as to what the car was doing, compared to traditional automatic transmissions which has natural intuitive shifting points.
And are MUCH more reliable long term. Not too mention easier too drive. Especially, for those who have never driven a manual before. Why Hyundai put a wet clutch DCT in the new turbo Santa Fe is beyond me. They should have just stuck with the normal 8 speed auto the SEL and lower trims have. I see A LOT of problems arising from these new trannies wet or dry clutch. They are just not reliable.
Jason congrats on this awesome video. I totally agree with everything you say, but the thing is that I have a motorcycle with an automatic DCT transmission and I can feel that when I am stopped at the lights with first gear engaged it is constantly trying to pull forward. It's just a little bit, barely noticeable, but is there. So just in case I always select neutral when at the lights or at any significant stopped time, even with the fact that the manufacturer says not related recommendation at the user manual, just to prevent any long term wear to the clutches, specially to the first gear one.
Damn, 2M subs for some car knowledge. Impressive.
The inching fwd makes sense to me now! My wife had a Dodge Dart with the 1.4t and ddct trans. Whenever we would get caught in heavy stop n go traffic for long periods of time, there would be a burning smell and minor smoke developing from the engine bay. We even had the shut down on us one time (prob due to the clutch overheating). These cars should be built to withstand any type of typical driving condition though. FCA has since dialed back the number of Darts with that come 1.4t/ddct combo.
Thanks to who translated this video to portuguese! By the way, this channel is very good!
Most cars with a dual clutch transmission have a hill holder feature that applies the brakes when you let off the brake pedal to the accelerator when stopped on a hill. Otherwise, the car rolls back like in a manual car.
runforit420 mine sometimes work and thats on the same hill hahaha so annoying tho
I would love to see a video on 5 things not to do in a CVT.
No. 1: Do not keep the car, sell it
Point 1 (0:30) - well surely if you're "coming to a stop", you would likely shift into neutral anyway so you can engage the handbrake / parking brake?
It's interesting that here in the UK you're recommended - at night time at least - to engage neutral and apply the handbrake to avoid dazzling drivers behind with your tail lights.
Obviously if you're only stopping for a few seconds, holding on the brake pedal isn't a problem.
Ever since I watched an onboard cam on an F1 race car, I've wanted an electric servo shifted dual clutch transmission. Now I have 1, a 7 speed, and got it for cheap!
You mean you have just a transmission, right? XOXO
Interestingly, F1 cars don't have dual clutch transmissions (they are banned). They have single clutch transmissions which are just synchronised to shift really fast. (You get a gear soup of broken bits if the synchronisation is off!)
Hey finally a Hyundai related video, your getting close my friend.
Aspiring for greatness.
Jason, my experience with my ‘13 S4 is clutch is the clutch is binary, either disengaged when brake on or, upon releasing brake, quickly fully engaged. Engagement does not seem to use any slipping mode, counting on the low 1st ratio to make the transition smooth enough. Fly is when you hit the gas quickly in an up hill scenario, then engine speed gets elevated above idle before the clutch closes, resulting in a jerk motion. Also about no slip evident in a launch (only did that once!) as pretty violent on the drive train when no wheel spin to absorb the overload.
Great video. Question: what if you have to creep while in Reverse? Is that equally as bad as creeping forward? It sounds pretty dangerous if you have to always accelerate when in Reverse.
No its not. Creeping in reverse is completely fine. Engineers knew it was common sense to go slow and cautious in reverse anyway.
DCTs generally have a low first gear and an even lower reverse.
You don't need to use the accelerator to creep. If there's room, just let the brakes off completely, and the clutch will fully engage, and the car will move forward slowly or backwards even more slowly. Less than walking speed in my car.
+Engineering Explained This isn't accurate for all dual clutches. I have an Audi S5 (7 speed dual wet clutch) and it DOES NOT release the clutch when waiting at a stop light with the foot on the brake. This is confirmed in my car by multiple things:
- you can feel the engine trying to pull. Moving the lever to N causes a slight movement and you can hear the engine quite down
- instant consumption is about 1.9L/h. Moving the lever to N causes it to instantly drop to about 1.2L/h
- releasing the brake causes the car to move absolutely instant, there is not even a ms of delay, it is quite obvious that it was already pushing
- my local dealer confirmd I should move to N when waiting for longer periods of time.
I don't know if this difference is because I have wet clutches compared to the dry ones in your test vehicle, but it feels like something you should mention in your video.
Also, regarding launching the car, many cars equipped with dual clutch gearboxes have launch control.
Interesting, could certainly be a different process for wet DCTs, as well as different automakers. I know VW dry clutches will fully disengage when you come to a stop, dunno about their wet.
I am a mechanical engineer, designing dual clutch and gear shift systems for such transmissions for the OEMs, and even I hate driving them (traditional autos, automatic manual transmissions, cvts, you name it). It’s much more involving and fun to drive a manual car than to press some paddles when you feel for it. But it’s not for the lazy. And if you compete professionally it’s probably also not for you. It’s kind of like electric motors vs internal combustion engines, if you really are into cars, you’ll love ICE but if you’re just into stats on a paper or having the latest technology, you like electric. This is a fact, everyone who disagrees are clearly wrong.
Can you make a video on "5 things you should never do in a CVT transmission car"? There are a couple things I can think of that you shouldn't do.
For instance?
#1: dont buy a car with a CVT
nailed it.
+TheCarista. don't have fun in a cvt
Could say the same about a DCT
Next "5 Things You Should Never Do In A CVT Transmission"
1 don't buy one
2 don't keep the car you have that has it
3 don't not sell it
4 don't drive one
5 don't think it's a good transmission
Between conventional auto that gear hunts vs CVT that keep the motor at the proper rpm... CVT for me if I'm getting automatic.
If fun is what you're after, then I personally think you should be in a manual transmission car.
You say that, but having driven a CVT.... you want it to "drop down" for more torque, but it doesn't. Instead it looks for the best MPG even if you're foot to the floor trying to merge into high speed traffic without getting run over. TERRIBLE. GF has a Nissan CVT and it is a dog.
+Alvin Brinson I do have one. I don't mind it. I really don't like gear hunting from conventional automatic.
I love my mom's Nissan's SUV w/ a CVT. Thing gets fantastic mileage and has good pickup.
You should also board through the window or moonroof to reduce wear on the door handles.
Thank you, just brought a 2007 VW gti with DSG and I am learning...
I really like this channel and i already learned a lot from it or it confirmed what i already have known but i maybe wasn't 100 % sure about, but it could be much better for me as a European guy if u would use metric units (too) so i don't need to quote anything to get an idea about it.
Just learn normal units!
With a wet clutch DCT, if you're going to be stationary for a long time it's probably better to select neutral. On my car the trip computer shows litres per hour when stopped and in neutral its 0.6, in drive sitting still its 0.8
This would likely be due to viscosity drag of the fluidl between the multiple wet plates, and would be putting heat into the fluid.
Wonderfully explained! About the inching forward, in traffic one is supposed to inch forward, otherwise other people try to cut you off and get in front. Does this mean that a dual-clutch isn't a very good option of one frequently drives in high traffic? Also, I'd really appreciate if you could make a similar video for CVT transmissions as a growing number of vehicles are now starting to have CVTs. Cheers!
Yes
You can inch forward just fine. But you do it slightly differently. You allow a little space to form, not so big someone can jump in, but maybe a car length. Then you take your foot off the brake completely. The car will idle forward slower than walking speed but with the clutch fully engaged.
Then you stop.
It's really not hard.
@@alanjm1234 back when I commented that I was in India and anything more than a hand’s length meant that someone is going to cut me off. Sometimes even a hand was too much. It literally was “bumper to bumper” traffic. This is my biggest hesitation with a DCT, that for those types of traffic, it might heat up a lot.
I have a question. Should you use a manual shifting feature regularly on a dual clutch vehicle? In example, will it be bad for your car if you shift at different speed and rev compared to when it's on a automatic mode?
And these, ladies and gentlemen, are the reasons why cars and trucks makers are moving away from that dual clutch craze and going back to either torque converters in 2019. Less costly to manufacture, and to maintain. And with modern locking torque converters, the performance and fuel economy is about the same anyway. The fabulous and well renowned ZF 8HP automatic transmission, which is used in many cars and trucks of different brands, is a torque converted one.
What if I like my clutches hot? ヽ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)ﾉ
set on fire
+shivaraj p solved.
smirnof quaboxsky tatti ka
Noah B ii
some like it hot :D
i guest you’ve never tried a Porsche dual clutch (PDK). Best transmission around.
S Gauthier PDK is psychic
Wrong DSG Audi
I’ve just bought an MG HS and your video explained pretty much what I need to be aware off. I just need to better understand how to not overheat my clutch when I’m stuck on an incline hill 😓 still my frustration. The other day I almost rolled back
One thing that is never stated enough: come to a complete stop when shifting between R and D :)
Unlike normal manual transmissions, it has a synchronizer in reverse gear. So no problem i guess
Why was this video recommended to me for O_o Haven't looked up anything car related in like a few months xD
+dha12oks time for your quarterly refresher!
Possibly, though I only just recently got a new car :D
+dha12oks car shop without watching some reviews on RUclips? hats off to you
Rui Jin Nah mate, I've seen the model of car I got now for over a few years now to know what to expect :P
+dha12oks RUclips managed to figure out that you got a new car and suggested these videos lol. What kind of car did you get if you don't mind my asking? :D
I don't know but the delay on moving after brake release makes it very hard to manage scenarios where you really need the car to respond(e.g entering a really tough intersection/lane), it also makes it quite hard to do micro adjustments when parking through tight places.
Wow, so basically don't drive this transmission in NYC or New Jersey during rush hour. The whole drive you inch forward in those places.
***** NY & NJ ...move out, come to Kentucky! Lol
SevereTstormFan what you do is:
1 see the car in front move
2 wait 2-3 seconds at most
3 get on your accelerator to get rolling
4 get back on the brakes to stop again
Simple. Ive gotta do the same in a manual. You get used to it.
Or do what the other guy says and move to Kentucky. Id go to Kentucky too - mmmmm bourbon country
SevereTstormFan Ask people who drive stick in traffic. Same premise nothing new
Or Los Angeles
SevereTstormFan here in jersey and over in philly too 76 and parts of 95 is tha worst
that Hyundai actually looks quite nice
It's pretty sad how nobody can have their own opinion anymore...
I think the Coupé is fine (didn't they rename it Genesis or something?!) but don't really care for the rest
I'm sure the millions and more that drive them will immediately return them after hearing that, nutz. ;)
Hyundai is fine now, I own a Jetta and Elantra but Elantra has been much more reliable than Jetta
Toci Aie ugh hate my elantra, what an ugly pos, also under powered, bad on fuel, what else.
I feel so enlightened.. it's been hell owning a Hyundai Veloster and realizing you're not driving it right! 😩🤦🏾
Nice vid out there! Learned a lot from this. But I have questions regarding point no.3 which is about inching forward. It's best to allow enough gap to get up speed for the clutch to fully engage. But, how fast is fast? Is it like 10-15mph or higher? Or 1-2k rpm? Look forward for the answers. Thanks and keep it up with those great quality videos!
its a bit late but as far as i can tell. In a manual transmission you can easily drive 10 km/h (so about 6 miles per hour) ?
"Don't inch forward" LOL... so here's a transmission that's essentially incompatible with driving in any large city. Just kidding, of course, that's an exaggeration; but it does go to show just how valuable a torque converter (or hybrid) can be.
And it also shows that the title of the video is completely misleading.
Frank Reading Well, only if it's taken literally. He's not saying you should *never*, under any circumstances creep forward in a DCT-equipped car, just that doing it regularly may wear the clutch faster (i.e. "never always creep forward"). EE is a smart guy, makes tons of great videos. Dual-clutch transmissions are really cool, but I think this is probably a valid criticism of them... and I'm honestly kinda surprised that they're becoming so commonplace now. For regular, city or suburban driving with lots of stops and starts, a torque converter has distinct advantages. DCTs are a natural fit for any performance-oriented car and hybrids, where the electric motor can handle low-speed duty, but for a Hyundai Tucson? Seems kinda silly.
***** To be fair, we don't really know how fragile most DCTs will end up being yet either. VW's DSG has been around the longest and has multiple well-documented issues, but I feel like that could be said about almost everything VW builds. There's a big movement right now to make engines smaller and more efficient without compromising performance and I think that's cool. I'm excited for 2-cylinder 500cc engines turbocharged out the wazoo. A DCT gives you impossibly fast shift times and reduced mechanical losses, so that's where Hyundai is coming from with them and I understand that... thing is, modern automatics really aren't that far off from DCTs in performance or efficiency; especially in something like a compact sedan or CUV. 0-60 and MPG are going to come down to fractional differences between an Tucson with an automatic and a Tucson with a DCT - something that 99% of the people buying them will never notice. Maybe I'm wrong and their clutches will prove strong enough, and their computers "smart" enough to avoid excessive slip and still feel linear behind the wheel, but only time will tell!
as a long standing hyundai tech I can tell you in my shop the transmission that provides hyundai with the fewest problems is by a wide margin the DCT. Since the Veloster DCT ive seen exactly 2 DTC transmission failures in 5 years at a dealership level. But you're probably right.
There's a tiny bit of confusion here. As long as the first gear engages fully, there's no problem with creeping. You could try this out in a manual car to see how fast you are going when fully engaged to first gear with low engine rpm. In a dual clutch system this practically means that you should not creep by lifting the brake pedal a little i.e. move slower than the first gear allows. Creep on, but when creeping just lift the brake completely.
clear and logical as always, thank you E E. so many problems with machines occur because operators don't understand how they work. You explain it very well.
The flaw in these transmissions is when you are coasting along at about 40 mph and it predicts that the next change will be up. You suddenly need a quick burst of power when you get an opportunity to overtake and the delay is terrifying.
These systems are considered unsafe to use in high speed police pursuit vehicles for that reason. Ambulance drivers are having the same problem.
I was caught in snow and stop and go traffic, lot of breaking and going slow, all the sudden got a warning tone and message the my transmission was over heating. Called the dealer they told me to leave space between me and the car in front of me to fully engage the clutch or to pull the car over and let it cool down for 20 minutes. Say what? That just seems to be a design flaw, did they not take in to consideration a lot of consumers buying these are city drivers in lots of stop and go traffic. Had I know this I would have thought twice about buying the car. Love it otherwise but this is a big issue. I worry what kind of damage this causes over time.
Tim Gray oh man, heart attack at that moment?
@@Off3er Probably :D
This has nothing to do with this, but I got a good heart attack while working and my forklift stalled. That thing weights like 5 tons and the handbrake is useless. It locks the steering wheel and I was there just watching as the lifter slowly rolled towards the end of the hill...... Luckily it stopped like 10cm before it was too late.
Did you left it in Drive every time you stopped??
It will cause your clutch pad to wear out earlier