Why Do Diesel Engines Runaway? What Is A Diesel Engine Runaway?
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- What is a Diesel Engine Runaway? What is an Engine Overspeed? This video discusses what they are, what causes them, the damage they can do, and how to stop them. @AdeptApe on Venmo or AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal for donations, thank you so much for supporting the channel!
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A runaway diesel is like the Stone Age terminator. It’s not alive, it doesn’t have fear or remorse, it won’t stop until it’s dead.
Even THEN it rebuilds itself 🤟🏻
No it can stop my dad stopped his tractor in 30 seconds
@@nano-gq9tv “it won’t stop” obviously you can stop it by cutting the airflow off
@@nano-gq9tv all he was saying was it won’t stop itself
@@jefrebugni4064 oh ok I git it know thx man
I am a retired Baltimore City Fire Department Captain, often times when we responded to calls with Diesel engine compartment fires, and could not shut the engine down, we would discharge a Carbon Dioxide fire extinguisher into the air intake and it would displace the oxygen and shut down the engine. It worked every time.
Barry Broyles
its kinda funny how old people always write comments like its mail lol.
@@honkhonk8009 Yeah I’ve seen that happen a lot lol
@@honkhonk8009 It's just how older people write, even my grandparents "sign" each text they send lol I don't particularly understand the reason they do it, but they all do it.
@@honkhonk8009 or you could just have some respect and appreciate the wisdom
Nice
Had a Nissan U.D with an inline turbo charged 6 cylinder towed in to my shop because of a no-start condition. Cranked it over and it started right up and went full bore red line instantly. It would not respond to the rack linkage and was screaming so loudly my ear drums were about to burst. I knew it was seconds away from grenading and was torn between the feelings of trying to save a 30 thousand dollar engine or dying from the flying shrapnel when it came apart. I grabbed the air cleaner assembly and luckily was able to rip it loose from the 4 inch diameter tube it was attached to. The first thing i saw lying close by was a small piece of plywood so i quickly grabbed it and shoved it as hard as i possibly could flat up against the intake pipe. The engine started to slow down a bit but would not seal enough to kill it. Another employee ran over and together we pushed so hard on that piece of wood that the engine finally died out before we
broke it into 2 pieces. That situation was 60 seconds of pure terror that i hope to never experience again. A mans heart can only take so much!
Great story thank u for story.
Such a nightmare. Lives are genuinely on the line with shitty situations like this.
@@christophers6886 We've been told walk away from could kill you
Seems like a good idea to incorporate a butterfly like in an old carburettor car with a twist knob that can be turned to cut off the air.
@@punchtheundead3127 Well I would if it was my motor, has it really been tried?
Me: studying cyber security
Google: how about learning about runaway diesel engines
Me: Interesting. Yes, I think I will.
Hahaha👍
you never know, it could be a cyber attack on the cars ecu causing full fuel. there’s a youtube video where these guys spent 4 years trying to hack into a 2014 grand cherokee and eventually they got it! i’d give it a look
@Zach Hein haha, yeah. I've seen that and a few others. However, that's like taking four years to drill the locks on a local bank vault with un-hindered access and no cops coming (and no money inside hahaha). It works for that one car, but isn't duplicatable to any other vehicle including other 2014 grand Cherokees. CAN-bus encryption and vehicle unique security lockouts make it dang difficult to modify things that shouldn't be touched. There are a bunch of thieves (mafia) running around with off the shelf hardware stealing cars by momentarily rebroadcasting the signal from the owner's key, but that's not hacking in ANY way shape or form. It seriously isn't any more complicated than a voice recorder for radio waves. (It's called an RF replay attack) Plus it's pretty much a one shot thing, once the car is off, they can't restart it without grabbing more code frames from the fob, which they don't have obviously. Smart thieves will grab enough frames for several minutes of key spoofing, but that's risky to hang around for that long.
Literally me!! I'm supposed to be doing cybersecurity (IS-141) homework right now lol
On new diesels they make today since there’s no rack to stick open when the turbo seals blow out the engine is feeding hot oil past/through the worm turbo bearing & essentially going wide open on oil until either the engine looses air or fuel/oil or the engine sizes up from oil starvation.
A run away engine is generally caused by its parents cracking down on its bad behaviour.
Well maybe if it's parents weren't a couple a SQUARES, it wouldn't seem so bad!
KAREN!
Get it.. cause squares don't roll! Haha
LMAOO
You can't exactly throttle them. That's abuse.
lol👍
My engine tried to run away but I caught it and spanked it good! It never tried to run from me again ‼️
No use to run i know where it lives.lol
@@ot810 LMAO ‼️
Lol
Spanked it good? Was this funny in your head before you typed it?
I guess it won't go Harriet Tubman on your ass again
One of the surest safest ways to be 100% ready for any type of runaway situation is to have a 10LB CO2 fire extinguisher plumbed directly into the intake boot or intake manifold and if a runaway situation ever happens just simply pull the pin on the extinguisher and squeeze the handle, engine will come to a stop very quickly with zero damage as long as it did not over speed.
You are on to it!
But you are taking away performance from the car 💀
Just have it on you
Fun fact: most diesel engines run away in an attempt to get farther from their ex wives, or destory themselves in the process.
Diesel engines don't run away... The mechanics do.
For good reason, too. maybe they can't plug the intake in time.
there needs to be a switch that when it runs away you flip it and it shuts the fuel line at the gas (diesel) tank and a flap covers and locks into place that way if it runs away it will starve it
Lmfao
Nice you
kjilk simble A fuel disconnect doesn’t work because there is enough residue fuel inside the pump itself to run the engine long enough for damage to happen. Blocking the oxygen intake is the way to kill it. That’s why trucks have the air filter outside the engine compartment. Access is quicker. I remember in school the instructors told us to use the log book to block the intake. They also told us that if we tried to block it by stuffing our field jacket into it that we’d see a diesel engine eat a field jacket.
As a retired army diesel tank mechanic, I would like to add that, from experience, having a choke cable to an intake plate is a good idea. Also the majority of my experience of diagnosing runaways was a fault in the cooling system. Water pump failure, drive belt... so keep an eye on oil consumption and engine temp. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
Thank you for your service
In some cases, a Planck mass of prevention is worth a quadrillion solar masses of cure.
The best runaway I ever saw was of a Chieftain tank, it has a 19-litre ( around 750 hp (1,200 cu in)) vertical six-cylinder opposed-piston 2 stroke and supercharged ( 3 lobed roots blower ) diesel engine. The squadron had just pulled out of a hide in a forest and it was twilight, I was told to stop and come up on the turret to watch, anyway the engine was revving so high it sounded like a Harrier jump jet then there was a massive explosion and flash and the back decks of the tank were thrown off, the engine had destroyed itself. Very impressive
"The best runaway I ever saw was of a Chieftain tank"
^^^YOU WIN!
(Best one I ever saw was a Renault Trafic van..!)
@@podulox
I saw a Transit "I think" go runaway about a week ago. Outside a local school whilst the kids were going home. They were all laughing at it!
Destroyed in 90 seconds.
Man I hate it when my Diesel engine runs away. They’re a pain in the ass to catch
Hah
Especially if it took your only truck with it
😂😂😂😂😂
A CO2 fire extinguisher shot into the intake would stop any combustion engine.
@@DonovanBryant92so? If you only allow CO2 in it will starve the engine of oxygen (duh) and it will die out.
donovan you fucking dumbass
@@DonovanBryant92 I think you mean glo plugs instead of spark plugs not injectors.
What did Donovan say?
he said it wouldn't work because a diesel engine combustion ignites from compression and not spark plugs, which does not change the fact that it needs oxygen too
I drove a 2,4 Toyota diesel once. When you went faster than 80 km/h it started accelerating by itself. The problem was worn rings. Sucked the oil from the sump. Every 100 km it used half the engine oil...
This was likely a damaged turbocharger. When the gap in the oil bearring gets too big, the turbocharger spills oil into the intake. Thats also why it only happens above a certain speed, because below that speed the turbo doesnt fully spool up.
@@heinzletzte.6385 bin gerade dein hundertster Abonnent geworden.
Oh danke, hatte sogar schon mal 130 Abonnenten. Aber bitte nur abonnieren, wenn der content gefällt (welcher zugegeben manchmal ziemlicher trash ist), nicht nur wegen meinen Kommentaren. Ich will nämlich Niemanden enttäuschen.
nicht bös gemeint aber das ist immer ärgerlich wenn welche deabonieren lol
@@heinzletzte.6385 normalerweise abonniere ich sowieso nur, wenn mir der content gefällt 😂
I used to drive a 71 International Transtar with a 6-71 Detroit Diesel engine, and it had a hand pull emergency cutoff valve in the cab that would stop all air flow into the engines intake. I don't know why they didn't All have that, they definitely should have. Especially them old 2 stroke Detroit's, they were notorious for run-away.
671’s ran away more than any diesel in history.
30 + year diesel mechanic. Best failure I've ever seen. Boat got tugged to our Morgan City dock. Said they needed two engines. Odd request, that two engines failed. Once in the hull, we saw why. The starboard engine threw a rod and kicked the starter through the port engine block. Both were sister 399 CATs.
wow! "If i'm going down, i'm taking you with me!" lol
@@brandon2076 "This thermal detonator will blow us all to bits!"
In the 1980's I experienced a 2 cycle Detroit running backwards... But I was absolutely gobsmacked when a DD15 Detroit did it ---and did so very suddenly at idle. Shocking how fast it sucked the accelerator to floorboard, exhaust roared out the air intake, and the engine blew up just as I killed it in gear. This happened much faster than that old 2 cycle did. The DD 15 was a well maintained , low mileage engine that was used only on light loads and was never allowed to run at too high rpm , nor too low.Warranty had expired 21 days prior to this catastrophic failure. Detroit headquarters wanted the engine back asap, to do autopsy on it. They sent a new engine for free, and I think even footed labor cost on a local Detroit affiliate shop . (Company owned truck).Glad i was'nt an owner operator!
A backwards running motor? That's crazy!
Thanks for sharing your amazing story.
Every 2 stroke is able to run backwards, 2 strokes have no valves, that means everything stays normal, intake stays exhausts stays exhaust. Your story is a lie or it wasn't a 2 stroke.....
2 stroke diesels have intake ports in the cylinder wall and an exhaust valve in the cylinder head. Both are open at the same time at bottom dead center. Because they make no vacuum they need a supercharger to push the air through. So they dont need the space below the piston, thats why they have an oil sump. When the engine runs backwards, the supercharger sucks the air through the intake ports and fresh air enters through the exhaust valve, thats why they smoke from the intake. Also the oil pump runs backwards, thats why it probably died.
@@mariegoldstein6687 You are either contradicting yourself, or formulating it badly. And you might want to read Heinz LETZTE's explanation, that precisely fits the story as told - cause you're not making sense either.
I’ve seen this in the oilfield as the Diesel engine was was in a run-away mode even though the ignition was turned off. It was all because the engine was sucking in oilfield gas into the intake. They eventually installed a 3500 dollars butterfly valve on the intake to protect the engine.
When I was in high school we had a bus that was just on the edge all the time. The thing was scary to ride on because it ran a little higher than it’s governed speed. And what was worse was The bus repair garage never did anything to fix it. And I didn’t actually experienced this, but my senior year my bus driver was leaving a stop light and his vehicle ran away on him, and he had to stall as he was going around the corner so it didn’t catch on fire. The next year after I graduated they decided to replace that old bus with a new one.
I was a tank mechanic on the M60A3. 1790ci 2cycle V12 LINCOLN. Every GROUND-HOP had to be preceded by two round boards fasten with short pieces of chain to the INTAKE DUCTS. I witnessed a RUNAWAY it was terrifying a brave soldier pressed his chest to one side while convincing someone to do likewise!
RUclips ... Was watching how to cook steak and after an hour, this ... Didn't have no dinner, but learned something I'll probably never need in my life
Hey. I'm curious if you could give insight as to how a diesel engine can run backwards... Story time: I was bringing a load of gravel to a customer in a 1986 Kenworth which was equipped with a Cat 3406B 400HP model.. Because of a steep turn on the driveway I managed to stall the truck in 2nd or 3rd gear.. What happened next will stick with me forever, the truck KEPT RUNNING! Albeit with a very delayed throttle response. I started to notice every time I depressed the throttle pedal, smoke would come out of the Air Filter housing but it wouldn't make any power. Mind you by this point I had the truck in neutral and I was trying to figure out what was wrong with it. Eventually I shut it off, restarted the engine and it ran fine after that. Only later after telling the story to some friends and fellow drivers did I hear about "dieseling" an engine. Apparently with older mechanical engines if they "lugged down enough" and stalled they could start running backwards. I'm curious if this situation is video worthy or if you have any thoughts about it. Also great video! Cheers from Canada, buddeh.
The old 2-stroke jokes used to be famous for that. 53-series, 71-series. I never saw it happen on a 92-series, but I'm sure it has happened. Some of the old trucks, you'd have to pull out a handle to physically cut off the fuel and stop the engine. With the old Detroits, if you pulled out the handle, and then at the right time, let it go, sometimes the motor would kick back to life, in reverse. It would puke smoke and stuff out the air inlet. You wouldn't want to let it go on too long though, as the oil pump would also be pumping in reverse, which wouldn't do your engine a lot of good.... I'm sure I might have "stalled out" a time or two, and stomped down the clutch at that perfect moment, and the stupid thing sputtered back to life running backwards. Then you have to deliberately snuff it out and restart it, which might draw attention to you in the form of a horn honk, finger pointing, laughter, etc.
Wow that’s weird. I have absolutely no clue how that could happen.
Most early diesels can run backwards as the cam profile would alow the valves to stay open longer on the close ramp. New engines have a very steep close ramp on the cam to shut the valves quickly preventing combustion in reverse rotation. Cheers mate 🍻
Stan Patterson is that why Detroit 2 cycle engines aren't in trucks anymore? lol Holy crap, double the combustion cycles, double the odds of the engine running backwards!
One of our old dump trucks was 2 strike Detroit and if you rolled down a hill backwards you could start it by releasing the clutch and the motor would be reversed. Actually came in handy on job with almost a 3/4 of a mile back in with the extras gears you got
I worked on offshore supply boats in the oilfield and we'd keep huge blankets in the engine room in case of a runaway to smother the engine. I've experienced one runaway on a 1692 Marine Detroit Diesel but I was able to shut it down before it destroyed itself. It's a little scary standing over the engine trying to shut it down while thinking of all the stories you've heard of pistons coming through the side of the block
Cats and dogs living together mass hysteria! Thumbs up to the little Pete Venkman line in there love your work Josh
Great to recognize some Ghostbusters quotes!
Great video. When I first started driving trucks in the early seventies in Winnemucca NV I drove an old Kenworth with a V-12 detroit. It gets really cold in the winter time and that detroit was a real pig to get started so I always had to use ether if it had sat overnight. One early morning I was trying to get it started and when it finally did it just kept revving higher and higher. I pulled the fuel shutoff and it only slightly slowed so I pulled the emergency air shutoff and the cable broke. Since this was a cabover I couldn't get to the intake to try and block it and I didn't think to use the fire extinguisher so needless to say it ran at what sounded like 10,000 rpm for a few minutes before it stuck some pistons and finally stopped. I tore it down to see if I could fix it but it would have cost more then it was worth. I put a 335 cummins it in and drove it for several more years.
lol sounds like every prevention mechanism failed at the same time
very surprised piston parts didnt shoot out of the block like armor piercing amo... like what happen to us
@@heinzletzte.6385 LOL
@@gentbar7296 Yes
Hey I'm not a trucker but I drive a Mercedes E class station wagon, which features a 3.0 l V6 Diesel. Love your channel Josh, absolutely great stuff on Diesels! I really appreciate it. It is especially hard to find such a channel since most car enthusiasts focus on gas only!
Most runaways are caused by the engine running on its own oil.
-If the turbo seals go out...
-If the crankcase gets too hot the oil will boil and the fumes get sucked into the intake.
-If the fuel pump starts leaking into the crankcase, the oil thins, gets hot , the engine starts running on the fumes coming out of the crankcase.
-Clogged air filter, there is so much vacuum in the intake you start sucking oil around the intake valve seals and piston rings.
Then there is my all time favorite, brand new engines running away because the builder used way too much parafin based assembly lube.....first time the engine got hot under load it would boil the paraffin out and the fumes would overrev the engine.
I've only seen one runaway caused by a bad governor or fuel system, but I've seen dozens of runaways caused by the engine consuming its own oil.
With synthetic oil becoming more common , I'm seeing fewer examples but it still happens .
Unless I've been misinformed , It is my understanding that a hot Detroit 2 stroke will occasionally runaway "after" the fuel is shut off. If this is correct and it is from oil fumes or leaking oil, do you have any idea why it would happen "after" the fuel is shut off? If the oil is hot enough to produce enough fuel vapor to over rev the engine with the fuel valve off then I would think it should runaway prior to closing the fuel valve.
@@berserk7111 the governor compensates for the extra "fuel" provided by an oil leak , so at first you dont notice anything, but once the oil leak gets big enough to actually run the engine , then it wont turn off.
Which is why Detroit Diesels had a flapper you could close to starve the engine of air.
Detroit Diesels consumed so much oil that when they were being used in semi's every highway had a thick black stripe down the middle of the lane.
@@glennchartrand5411Thanks, I did not consider the governor. I''ll need to research how it works On the DD.
The first time I realized how much these things really slobber was when I looked at my field from a higher vantage point and saw a thick black squiggle line like someone used a giant felt tip marker all over my field. It took me a second but then I remembered I had driven my f250 with a 4-53 earlier in the tall grass. The drivetrain and undercarriage is completely covered in oil.
Thanks again for the reply. Very much appreciated.
I like that this isnt a clickbait video and is straight on the point like not many videos these days
Have watched a 3406B run away after the air fuel ratio control was installed incorectly forcing the rack to full fuel. Can remember hearing the engine crank for ages from across the shop, when it fired it started slowly and started to wind up after a few sec we could all tell there wax no stopping it, after a minute the valves started bouncing causing flames around 5 foot long from both stacks at this point it sounded like something possessed, the guy doing the job had long since fled the scene by this time, another fitter climbed up in the cab found a high gear and stalled it out on the brakes. Cheers mate🍻
My father had been a diesel machinist on military ships main propulsion, they had steel shutters on the air intake to shutdown a runaway, he said that the engine would pull hard enough that it buckled these steel plates. I remember seeing these engines as a kid, big dudes, like 2 stories tall and 40 to 50 feet long sitting in the warehouse.
Thanks for the info, it happened to a mates once, the very first thing that came to mind was to block the air, others around were panicking, keep in mind as you said when an engine goes to full open revs it became a dangerous situation.
Again thankyou for your time and efforts explaining what goes on.
PROBLEM SOLVED 2:48 Hotdogs in the engine. I'm a genious they should pay me.
A Leo you have to spell your words right before you can be considered a genius🤣😂😂😂😂😂
Linden Hopkins 😂😂😂😂 its a part of the joke shut up
Linden, SHUT UP LOL. You needed a comma after "Leo" , Genius.
A Leo so what
A Leo does it hurt you
People who lived near the Okefenokee Swamp during both steam and diesel eras told me - as a reporter - that diesels caused way more forest fires than steam. Seems that when they were on a pass track near the swamp they would be idling and depositing carbon on the exhaust stack. When the engineer increased rpm the exhaust would blow out carbon which would still be hot enough to ignite nearby underbrush.
I had a run away on a Volvo FH12 because of turbo failure. Luckily my buddy was fast thinking and showed a bunch of rags into the air filter house and it caused the engine to starve and stop.
Retired trucker. Never had that problem personally but have witnessed it. Understood the basics from talking to mechanics and drivers. But this explanation is very good and seems accurate to me.
I was always taught if that ever happened to any of our older equipment to quickly take my shirt off and stuff it in the intake.
It will work but your best bet is to spray c02 into the intake/turbo
The person who told you this just wanted you to take your shirt off. They gave everyone else a tennis ball.
@@CriticoolHit A tennis ball is a great idea, as long as the air intake horn is perfectly round, and smaller diameter, than the tennis ball!
@@CriticoolHit You win comment of the year.
Use your hat or the rag in your back pocket. Taking your shirt off could be too slow
Had a road call on the freeway for a dt466 smoking a lot, pulled off charge air hose from turbo it was oil soaked, I told them seals in the turbo had gone and they should have this truck towed due to amount of oli they went cheap told driver to drive back. I still had the hood open driver starts up truck it idileed for a second then went into orbit, had a clipboard in my hand and blocked air intake, man it was scary though.
Best option is always stop airflow.. Just don't get your hand sucked into the turbo.
Heard a n14 that had lost a turbo and the guy didn't clean out the cac, it took off with the hood shut and no load. It stopped after it dropped a valve on every cylinder. Dude really saved some$ on that one lol
I've been there !
My friend had an aluminium clip board with an area on the back that was concave, (or convex, depending which way you looked at it,). He had just reworked and old 238 Detroit and on start up, rack rail got stuck and it was wide open. He had the clipboard and threw it over the intake, and the engine actually pulled the clipboard in a small dome shape.
He retired a couple years ago, and he still had that clipboard.
I’ve seen two runaways happen when I was running heavy equipment. Both involved 657E Scrapers. The first one was in the forward engine. On the other scrapper a few months later on another job site. A competitor company had a rear engine run away on their 657E. Both incidents. The engines took off to a loud roar. Pumping huge columns of cool out the exhaust and BOOM! Big black mushroom cloud. The operator of the forward engine runway jumped out and ran. The second. The operator sat in his cab watching it go terminal.
Damn good explanation, I've always wondered what actually happens when a diesel runs away. You hit the nail right on the head, nice video
EXCELLENT VIDEO !!!!!!
Thorough,tight,consice..
Professionally done!!!!!!
HEAVY-HAUL off-road.
Working on-sight hauling oversize
loads in gravel pits and construction/land DEVELOPMENT
sights.
I had this happen many times with
The 1974 Autocar,CAT 1693
bulldozer engine,425s,500s,
and Cummins.
1693 blew a piston through cylinder wall;Cummins . . . .
TURBO FIRE.
Thank you,again for this very informative video.
I enjoyed you’re ghost busters reference, cats& dogs living together!
It's fairly easy to get a junkyard throttle body from a gas engine, permanently plug any vacuum lines, and attach it in the air flow path (after turbo). Hook up a cable with a pull knob, inside the cabin, like a "choke" (which is what you're doing).
Well explained
I have never had a runaway in the 40+ years I've driven but I have seem the results twice. Not pretty. And both drivers said it was absolutely terrifying. And spendy.
Thank you
Thank You for the very thorough explanation of a "runaway" diesel and how to stop it. I've wondered for some time, the cause, and I think you nailed it.
My other question concerned "Turbo Diesel"
Runaways, but if you use logic, the cause is basically the same, except in the turbo instead of the engine.
Thank You!
Thanks.
Very interesting and thank you for the clean language. Very professional.
I know the old radial engines on aircraft had ocassional runaway props. I believe that was a governor issue where perhaps the propellers went to flat pitch and over sped which lead in some cases blades off and catastrophic airframe damage.
Virtually any aircraft with a constant speed unit can suffer from a propellor runaway.
It’s own oil as a fuel source
It's like drowning in your own blood 😢
Had this happen, Too much oil in crankcase
i should have watched this guy before my hour long binge of runaway comps. haha. good stuff thanks for your time.
I remember when I was 14 or 15 we put a used diesel engine in our Land Rover which at first wouldn't start since it had been sitting for a while and then went running away pretty much right after it started. Horrifying experience! We managed to make a ball of rags and gloves we had handy big and firm enough block the air intake good enough to stop it rather quickly. No harm done to the engine. It had a stuck injection pump so we just put the pump of the old engine on it and it was good to go.
Like all of your informative videos, please keep this wonderful work up!
Go to the highest gear and dump the clutch while firmly braking?
Yes. ruclips.net/video/KI7Xbrakozs/видео.html
maestro
On a 2l car thats the way to go. But in a brig truck you might break something.
Heinz LETZTE. Doesn't feels like something can brake tho
You can do that...once
"Cats and dogs living together " "chaos. lol love it
Just a recommendation from a professional firefighter/instructor; we teach to use CO2 fire extinguishers to shut down runaway diesel engines. Carbondioxide (CO2) extinguishers are the ones that can freeze your hand to the nozzle cone so you must use gloves. They displace the oxygen eliminating combustion. We direct the nozzle of the CO2 extinguisher directly at the intake of the diesel motor. Being a gas it will pass through all particulate filters and snuff out the potential combustion of any type of fuel in a confined environment. Remove the oxygen remove the combustion process.
October 10, 1979. Ansbach,West Germany 141 Signal Battalion, 1st Armored Division 60 K generator ran away. 1 mechanic tried to stop it with his field jacket, nope. I grabbed a creeper, Nope. Sargent and another grabbed a steel plate for that reason put it on the intake,(I was told to cut the boot, and the steel plate cut the air off. I was in country 3 months,and found out what to do if it ever happened again. LOVED YOUR VIDEO!!!
Tennis balls work too apparently. A science teacher at a school I worked at had a Mercedes 300D wagon that ran away on him due to some manner of rack failure. Being a science teacher he quickly thought about the fire triangle and jammed a tennis ball into the intake. Ultimately he saved the engine, and only later noticed the red lever labeled "Stop" on the side of the engine
After watching this, if I ever wind up with any diesel rig of my own I'll def install some manner of air cut-off system
carbon dioxide or nitrogen flooders work too.
I have a 300D and i had no idea what that STOP lever was. Thanks man!
The STOP lever is attached to the rack. It pushes it below the governor controlled idle position to bottom out and kill the engine. A mechanically injected diesel runs without electricity, it requires a positive force to shut it down. Mercedes used a pneumatic servo to operate that lever, similar to their door lock actuators.
For marine/industrial applications, Murphy Controls makes a safety stop actuator that incorporates a 30lb spring to push on that STOP lever if the power to the solenoid (holding it back while the engine is running) is cut.
Oh shit...I have one of those...
Or just install some sort of auto shutoff for the fuel pump if the engine reaches a certain RPM. Runaway diesel problem solved.
The point of using a fire extinguisher to stop a runaway is to shoot a bunch of CO2 into the intake, which takes away the oxygen. I have heard of locomotive engineers using this trick.
Cats & Dogs living together, MASS HYSTERIA!! 😂😂😂
Who ya gonna call.........
Ghostbusters!!!
I know this is an older video but then again so am I. Great video dude. Good job explaining for the average joe to understand.
I heard about another way diesels can runaway when I was reading about the deepwater horizon disaster. On oil rigs they use big diesel generators for power.
During the drilling accident a whole load of natural gas started to escape and spread around the rig. The gennys then sucked the gas/air mixture in through the air intakes and this caused them to run away. At that point you could totally shut off the fuel and they would keep running away - they’re getting everything they need through the intake.
It all happened so fast there wasn’t much the crew could do. Eventually one of the diesels exploded igniting the natural gas around it causing a huge fire and destroying the rig.
Happened at that one oil refinery. The diesel pickup truck was parked with the engine running. When the fuel started coming out the top of the blowdown drum and ended up around the truck, the vapours started getting into the intake and the truck started reving and running away. When the engine came apart it probably was what caused the whole place to blow up.
@@NiceMuslimLady maybe however the bigger issue is that they improperly ran the refinery and allowed the gas to come out of the top of the blowdown drum which would have found another source to make the vapors explode. there were people thatsupposedly survived and heard the truck revving.
@@peterf.229 Yes, the pickup truck was heard revving at the refinery before it blew up. Eventually, the vapours might have found another source to blow up on and it might have actually been an even worse explosion. Even tho it wasn't actually said, I can see people hearing the truck and just going "Oh no! RUN!" and running away, knowing what could be coming next...BOOM!!!
You’re thinking of the Texas City oil refinery, bub
Deep
Water
Horizon
I laughed pretty hard at the Peter Venkman "Ghostbusters" line you threw in around 5:25. Ha!
No idea what you are talking about, Bill Murray is the best.
100% agree! A true legend.
Weird thing is he sounded like Akroyd saying it. What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public.
Bill Murray stripes
@Hello Josh how are you doing
My dad always told me the surest way to shut one down is to remove the air. Guy he drove for had several old trucks (this was the mid/late '80s. They were old then) and a couple did run away in the shop. The one I was present for, Dad dumped the trash out of the can and put the bag over the air filter housing. Took a few seconds but it worked.
I’m a river boat engineer. Specifically EMD engines. It rarely happens with EMDs. Has an over speed trip that stops injector function at RPM over a pre determined value. Only problem with that is if the over speed trip springs get weak it’ll shut down or die under a load. So maintenance is key and I can’t stress this enough…..top end inspections, top end inspections, top end inspections! EMDs are amazing engines! Americans work horse and they are brilliantly designed!
And by the way…. An emergency fuel shut down is ALWAYS a good idea!
Ive seen a train going down the tracks with fire coming out the exhaust on the top. not sure if it was a runaway or not. but it looked cool
Fire out the exhaust stack is an indication of over-fueling. Normally, over-fueling presents as simply excessive (black) smoke, but if the machine has been working really hard, and if the exhaust is very hot, the unburnt excess fuel will actually begin to burn inside the exhaust, and when the stream emerges outside of the exhaust pipe, it meets the fresh ambient air, so the oxygen infusion as it's leaving the stack helps ignite the mixture and it presents as a visible flame. Yeah, looks cool, not really a problem other than to indicate that it's time for some shop maintenance. In some extreme cases, there could be instances of fire out the stack if the turbocharger was experiencing a failure where the lube oil being pumped to the turbo's bearings, manages to get past the seals on the hot side of the turbo, and ends up puking oil into the exhaust stream. This would present as quite a wild and excessively sooty, smoky blue-white exhaust, and if left unchecked, could begin to consume the lube oil from the engine. Modern locomotives would have a sensor that would indicate low oil level in the crankcase (or low oil pressure in critical areas), and would lead to a governed shut-down, if the engineer did not notice or act, the engine's management system would shut it down to prevent self-destruction. In a runaway situation, if the engine is getting its "fuel" from lube oil getting past the piston rings, or from turbo bearing seal failure on the "cold" side (compressor side, forcing oily air into the intake), there is no way for the engine to stop itself until it runs out of this "fuel" supply, or someone blocks off the air supply, or if it simply "grenades" itself from overspeed or lack of sump lubrication to the rest of the engine. Stopping air supply to a locomotive would be a tall order, as the openings for air intake are huge, and the danger of the object getting sucked right in would be quite high.
I worked on a lot of 2 stroke Detroits in the late 80's that were notorious for run aways.I always had a C02 fire extinguisher close by.
I'm not even a diesel technician and i watched this full video. Yay, now i know what a runaway is!
Great video.
This is crazy. I never voiced it but I was thinking just today. What makes a diesel runaway and it shows up in my RUclips suggestions. Now these phones can read my mind.
Had a Volvo L70D at work runaway when something came apart in the injection pump and jammed the rack full open. It was up to 2700rpm when the mechanic came and got me. By the time we got to it, it was still climbing going up to 2900. I drove it in a snowbank in high gear, curled up the bucket, shoved the arms down, cut if full left and it was still idling. An electrician was at work, he was driving by when he saw the other mechanic rip the pre-cleaner off and blocked it off with a 1/2” thick piece of rubber, it brought it down to less than 60rpm, it had at least a full second between the cylinders firing . He yells “what are you guys doing?” I yelled “it’s runaway, it won’t shut off!” He yelled back “Pull the plug wires off dumbass!!”...
Haha pull the plug wires good luck with that one
LMAO PLUG WIRES DONT DO SHIT 🤣🤣
Heck with the plug wires. Just smash the distributor cap!!!! It works for me every single solitary individual actual time, and then some!!!
So, just exactly who was the dumbass ? ? LOL
PLUG WIRES ON A DIESEL? That's interesting.
*"Seth MechanicFarlane"*
😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Cleetus MechanicFarland
Your comment is most excellent.
Seth MechFarlane
I was thinking that too
Gonna make a second comment too :D Many of the modern Diesels, as in 2019 that I've test driven or owned seem to have an inbuilt debounce making the RPM take longer to come down or really high end ones rev match between gears, lower end ones have a tendency to surge as the cars management draws more power for A/C or something like that. As someone mindful of mechanical failures, modern cars make me very paranoid.
Mario had a great post (pull the plug wires) lol. A friend Steve had a VW Rabbit diesel and one day going down the freeway it suddenly would not slow down. He burnt up the brakes but got it down to 8mph. He jumpped out of the car and luckily that stalled the engine when his foot slipped off the clutch pedal. At the dealership, 3 or 4 mechanics were under the car laughing and asked Steve to come over. Now Steve was pretty mad because this same dealership had sold him the Rabbit a month before and he wanted to know why they would sell him such a dangerous vehicle!? So he walked over and said "what!" The mechanics told Steve they just drained over 20 quarts of oil from the engine oil pan and does he know how it got in there, for the oil level inside the engine was high enough for the oil to be sucked into the pcv system and straight into the cylinders. Steve said, well yeah, the engine was making a ticking sound so I put in a quart of oil and the noise would go away. How many times did you hear the ticking sound, one of the mechanics asked? Oh, at least 25 times. DID YOU EVER CHECK THE OIL LEVEL?! No, why should I, the ticking stopped.
5:27 Loved the "Ghostbusters" reference!
Can non-turbo diesels run away? Or just turbo models. May seem silly but i always thought it was only the turbo models becauae the exhaust would force the intake to suck more air and go crazy on compression
Yes , if they start sucking engine oil up into the pistons.
( worn rings )
And if the guy who assembled the engine used way too much assembly lube , it can boil out as a vapor and go through the engine (via the PCV) causing it to rev up.
Thats one of the reason you're supposed to change the oil on a new engine after its run about 50 hours.
Manufactures claim they use a special "Break in oil" but the real reason is they dont trust the oil they put in to last very long because it is contaminated with assembly lube.
Absolutely they can. Uncontrolled fuel or oil ingestion will cause an overspeed.
Really terrific explanation my dude, cheers and keep up the great work !
I had this happen to me. I had no idea it was even possible. Never heard of it happening. In the middle of nowhere at 2am the truck suddenly goes full throttle. This is my 2nd run on my own. I wasn't told this could happen. Scared the crap out of me. Took it out of gear and pulled onto the shoulder. Tried to shut it off with the key and it kept on racing. All I could think of was to set the brake put it in 1st and dump the clutch. That did the trick. Boy what a way to grab your attention!!!
weaverjsnw we have a 2000 2500 24 vavle that did this last night
I know diesel engines don't require throttle valves to control engine speed, but it certainly seems like it would be helpful to have a throttle valve anyway, even if it was only used as an emergency cutoff and left in the full-open position the rest of the time.
Older Detroits had a flapper in the intake that works if you get before it's too much over redline, otherwise it will suck the seals out of the blower and run on that. At that point a co2 extinguisher is probably the only possibility.
Sounds like added complexity to mitigate a really rare situation.
We had an ISX run away a few years ago after a turbo failure. We wanted to drain the CAC, boss man wanted to start the truck. There’s still a spot on the ceiling in our shop!
management decision.... haha
What a dumbass I hope he learnt to listen in that kind of situation instead of rushing things
Back in 1991 while I was stationed on a U.S. Navy Perry class Frigate we had a new V-16 Stewart Stevenson diesel engine installed, connected to a generator. This engine is rated at 750 kW (1000 HP). While doing load testing with salt bath on the pier, one of the pistons managed to break free. A piston busted out a hole in the engine block allowing the oil to pour down into the bilge. The whole engine got red hot and the fuel and lube oil caught fire. It took us about two and a half hours to put the fire out. The piston was about 6 inches in diameter. What a day !
I've never experienced diesel runaway personally, however my great uncle experienced a runaway twice sometime in the late 1960s when he had the excavating business. Both were Detroit diesel. One of the engines blew a rod and resulted in an engine fire, destroying a mack dump truck. The driver jumped out the cab running for his life. Another case happened on an excavator. My uncle stopped it with a halon fire extinguisher.
I always wondered why fuel line cutoffs by switch or monitor never became a standard on diesels. One that you could flip or would automatically shut off the fuel line or even block the air intake if the engine bypassed the redline for more than 30 seconds or so.
25 years ago, the old Detroit 8V92TA had a runaway. Jake was signing off on the tactical vevichle. His big belly stopped it! He had a big hicky on his belly! He had to explain in broken Korean to het. He still slept on the couch for a few weeks. Yup, the old mechanical diesels would run away.
Yes, a CO2 fire extinguisher, only CO2, will snuff out a runaway. ABC extinguishers will but the engine will have to be over hauled. A couple of different guys used water! They hydrauliced the engine and ended with a lot of scrap metal. Every diesel firetruck, that I have seen to this day, has an emergency shut off on the air side. Even a few of those add a Jake type to the exhaust for extra safety.
Earlier comment about Jake is to this day we call him Jake brake... LoL!
Mike Brooka
I had one a while ago , that would start to run away if you choked the air.
It just started drawing on the oil in the engine.
Tired old 60s Cummins generator in a hospital, I hadda condemn it and they weren’t happy until I showed them why.
@@MrTheHillfolk I never had a Cummins do that unless it was a bad turbo seal, in which the turbo needed a rebuild. If no turbo, WTF?!?! Oil was coming from somewhere.
Mike Brooka
Yea it was pretty spooky, and it was really tired and overloaded electrically by like 15-20%.
that exhaust manifold would glow a nice cherry red under load, and it sat around 55-56hz(1hz=30rpm)
I don’t remember the exact engine model, but it was about a 1964 from the generator info.
It was maybe 120-125kw on the gen end.
Wish I coulda seen the exhaust stack outside when it was choked for air, and note the color of the smoke.
@@MrTheHillfolk Dang! Yes, it sounds like scrap. I wish I could know more about why it did that. It was sucking oil from somewhere.
This is why I always carried a bedbugger blanket/pad on my trk after my Uncle had a runaway truck. The blanket/pad can be folded up tightly and stored on the deck of the tractor. If you have a runaway you can use that blanket to cover the air inlet and slow the fire.
Being a German car mechanic, I've worked on many diesel car engines. The old MB 220D's actually had a throttle butterfly, that would choke of the air supply, and also produce vacuum. This would, in theory, stop an engine from running away, but to actually shut the engine down, you would have to manually close the throttle but pushing on the "stop" lever. I had one VW that tried running away, but I caught it before it revved over the rpm limit, which on 1.6L four cylinder engines was 5,500rpm. In that instance, I let out the clutch while holding the brake pedal firmly.
I had golf and jetta 1.6l diesel. They didn't have much power to begin with. But I do remember my dad's truck did have a button or pull out looking choke to kill the diesel engine.
I had an old 2.2ltr Hilux engine do this. It had worn valve guide seals and valve guides. It would suck the engine oil into the cylinders and run away with lots of blue smoke.
You would get a loud clatter and way it would go. Had to break hard in top gear to stall it.
You can do this with this engine as they don't have enough power to pull the skin off a rice pudding!!!!!
thumbs up for the ghostbusters quote
Hi Josh, really like your channel.
Here's my thoughts on the subject.
With a truck engine, with a runaway we need to limit the engine speed, that's the killer.
We can do this by putting the truck in neutral, kill the cruise control, activate the Jake brake, let the clutch pedal out.
The engine should now limit the RPMs to around 1200 or less as the Jake doesn't know the fuel source, it only knows it has to activate with the increase of RPMs, thus a makeshift rev limiter has been initiated.
This will prevent engine damage, and will give us the vital time we need to safely shut off the air by pulling the air boot and plugging the intake.
That locomotive at the beginning of your video looks more like a turbo failure than a runaway, but that could lead to a runaway if it's loosing oil on the intake side of the turbo (that one looks like an exhaust side seal failure).
In 41 years as a diesel mechanic, I've witnessed 3 full blown runaways.
First was a Continental Multifuel in the Army. It had a rotary type pump that was improperly assembled letting the rack go to full fuel and stay there. It passed 4000 rpm when we started it. We shut it down with a fire extinguisher directly into the turbo, cutting off the oxygen.
Second was a Detroit 6-71 with a rack that hung up in full throttle. We shut it down with a clip board over the intake.
Third. For those of y'all that aren't familiar with Detroit Diesels, they start up with the rack in full fuel and as they come up to speed, the governor pulls the rack back. When you pull the shut down cable, it pulls the rack all the way back into zero fuel position.
One of our Einstein mechanics on second shift was doing a rack adjustment on a 6-71. This normally requires setting each injector to full fuel with the engine off but the shut down cable pushed in. He set it with the shut down pulled out, so that when it started there was no way to bring the rack back to idle or zero. They got that shut down with a service manual over the intake. The next day I had the job of figuring out what happened, and correct it.
Thanks josh great video !!!!
Adept ape, here’s something I’ve always thought about. I’ve never had a runaway, but I’ve always considered it. Hear me out.
Runaways as you mentioned are caused by an uncontrolled fuel entering the engine, more commonly oil from the turbo. Now we both know Diesel engine run on compression. Now most Diesel engines are equipped with a mechanism that dumps compression at the top of the compression strike. Yep, the jake brakes. I’ve always wondered if you caught the engine before it completely oversped, and hit the jake, would you be able to hold the engine at a low enough rpm (since it would cut out at idle) so that you could get the intake off and block it.
Also one more thing. CO2 fire extinguishers work fantastic for shutting down a runaway because it doesn’t burn. DO NOT USE DRY CHEMICAL as it won’t stop it, it will only add to the damage. But guys have told me CO2 extinguishers are great.
Anyways looking forward to your input.
I was thinking about that last night after I made the video about the Jake brakes. Would be an interesting experiment. Theoretically they could dump the compression as they are designed to do and could stop the engine. Never tried it, but I'm sure someone has.
i don't think that it would stop the engine unless it was an old engine. all the electronic engines have the jake cutout at idle to stop the engine from stalling, so it would drop to idle, cut out, take off again until the ecm kicks the jakes back in, back to idle. but still it should be able to hold the engine in that range (probably up to 1200 and down to 600) long enough that you can get the intake tube off and block it without the engine grenading.
I keep a fire extinguisher of CO2 ! No oxygen no ignition ! Have not tried it but that was what I was told would work in a pinch ! Also a piece of plywood or thick tin large enough to cover the inlet ! My opinion Glen.
I have a 353 detroit diesel engine naturally aspirated and I have a CO2 fire extinguisher in the engine bay. I haven't tested it out yet, but theory is you can just put it in the air box and shut the engine down without damaging the engine or ruining the air filter.
Just saw your comment on the jake brake idea. You can probably use an override switch to trick the ECM to stall out the engine.
I rebuilt the fuel pump on my Dad's old IH 856. When getting pointers from old IH mechanics they warned me to follow the manual strictly-one piece in the wrong way could cause a runaway engine. After sweating bullets firing up the old gal (and stationing Dad at the fuel shut off valve) I apparently did everything right. (Nice Ghostbusters reference.)
just one question if you had a system to hold the exhaust vales then you could take the compression away ?
the reason i say that is i knew someone that did that so please explain i tend to stick to gas and electric
You can stop a run away with a bucket of water.
But this is best done on something you don't own.
Him: "Okay?"
Me: "Okay."
Very informative Ape! Thanks for such a good video!
Thank you for sharing this knowledge. I had some assholes trying to tell me diesel runaways dont exist, shut the key off, put it in nuetral etc... I sent them here 👍
there is dozens of runaway diesels on youtube
Runaways are fueled by oil not diesel 95% of the time...
diesel is an oil
usually from a blown turbo, but not always. And ironically they still can suck in diesel fuel as well
@Corn Fed DIESEL IS AN OIL Dammit the engine can burn both diesel and oil
@@felixbeutin9530 True, he should have been more specific: He should have said "crankcase oil".
@@vincentrobinette1507 Or turbo/supercharger oil, or valve oil. Lubricant oil in general.
Had a runaway in my boat once
Shutting of fuel did not work, cause it was burning it’s oil
Unable to reach the intake, so I pulled the decompression
And I once I had an runaway in my petrol motorcycle.. still don’t fully understand how that worked
It listened to initial D
That’s a stuck throttle cable for your motorcycle not a runaway
Fairly common if you don't lube and replace your throttle cable when needed. Could also be a carburetor issue.
2 strokes could runaway... I had this problem on 50cc bike - high compression and carbon build up inside the engine
Glissrova Videa very rare
Question: Since it's dangerous being around the engine, what would happen if you blocked the exhaust? I use to hot wire my bike as a kid since the parents hid my keys; so to switch it off, I'd block the exhaust with my shoe. However it was only 50cc little Honda. No idea if you could block something with more power though.
I like the Ghostbusters quote "cats and dogs living together Mass Hysteria"
Runaways are great to talk about; but they're a whole different story when you're up close. Solid video.
Always a pleasure.👍. Thank you.
First - thank you very much for interesting, informative and educational content. My skills are such that - well, not much. Point is that I find very little i can add to your knowledge. I worked on Detroit 2 cycle years age and the term was “ the engine over speeded - you ran away” thanks again.
I taught diesel for John Deere at a tech college. These vids are great! And, for once, there is NOT that standard aggriveting -a 44 stupi