You should read the Greg Nuchols post about the researcher Barbalho. The study you posted on your community uses his research for the source. www.strongerbyscience.com/barbalho/ One of the other commenters gracefool posted this in a reply to someone else below.
So, it's not that I'm cheating with ego-lifting heavy weights, I'm just doing multi-joint, compound lifts backed by scientific research of Dr. Del Hagen
At the end of the day, isolation movements exist for a reason. They’re to isolate lagging body parts. Yeah compound movements will give you the most overall growth but if you’re not isolating your lagging parts, they will never catch up because you’re constantly compensating with your dominant muscle groups. If someone is shoulder dominant they need that isolation work for the chest because the bench isn’t cutting it
exactly i played baseball so i was shoulder dominate never could figure out why my chest just didnt grow put in some flys and cable crossovers and boom chest starts coming alive.
Smb Weideman I agree with the original post. But that was almost certainly due to your execution of the exercise. Likely Benching without properly protracted scapula and using shoulders and triceps to compensate. If a properly performed bench press is not growing your chest, nothing else will.
The thing is, I listened to that for the first, 6-8 years of my training. I did all compounds. It left a lot of weakness. Then I added in the bodybuilding stuff, and for the first time, I really started to make gains on my whole body. It was like night and day. The study that I did was on myself, and that’s the one I pay attention to.
It was the exact opposite for me, and probably for most people who went the same route as me. When I first started I was clueless and doing a bro split because that's what everyone else was doing. There was slight progress then a hard stall with too much focus on isolation movements. Once I started doing compounds only strength and size went through the roof. But what you are saying is what isolation movements are for, to fill in any holes. Although it doesn't have to be isolation necessarily but something that targets a particular muscle as the limiting factor. But they should not be the base of your program.
The whole point of the video is that what most people think are single-joint exercises are actually multi-joint exercises in disguise. Just because bodybuilders call certain exercises single-joint exercises doesn’t mean they’re right in their terminology
I think the better way of thinking about it is : your body is made to be able to do everything (within a certain range of motion), so if you want to maximize your potential ... you gotta do everything. That's running, harcore cardio, heavy weights compound movement, and repetitive one joint type of movement. Concentric, Isometrics, Ecentrics (Isotonics ?). Another easy way to incorporate that is : Don't get stuck doing only one type of exercise.
10:01 "Mama knows" The mindset is just a front. Sticky Ricky is actually just Mama's project to create the most succulent and juicy human possible within the realms of conventional science.
I think we're all forgetting another one Ol' Ricky's golden tidbits here: Train Everyday with ZERO discipline. The bottom line is if you don't have a passion for how you train, you're not gonna train hard enough to make any serious gains.
The thing woth studies is that its hard to do right, there are so many variables. Recovery, nutrition, level of fitness, intensity, training weights, testosterone levels. Im sure I missed some things, but that just shows you that this isnt exact science. It cant be reliably repeated.
Amen, too many variables to consider/control for in any given fitness experiment/study to get a PRECISE answer. However, thats not to say we cant get good indicators as to what may be effective.
The people who do studies know this too and control for those factors as best they can. Also, studying multi- vs single-joint excercises' effect on strength and hypertrophy has been done many times with very similar findings so there doesn't seem to be a problem of replicating results.
These studies all have similar confounding factors. Studies that demonstrate an effect typically have been vetted by peer reviewers AND the readers. Bugez explains how the heavy lifts force you to get sloppy and creates a compound movement really nicely... But the entire point of science research is that you can expand a result to the population with relatively small numbers of participants because the confounds are not that important - if they are not systemic in the experiment (isolation group didn’t eat properly vs compound group who ate the garlic and the honey)
As I read the study: Doing isolation after doing compounds did increase strength and size. They didnt have an isolation only group. 100% compounds are best bang for buck, but I dont think you need compounds for biceps, its a single joint anyways? I think the conclusion is that people have a limited recovery and you can reach it easily doing compounds, while doing more than you can recover from does nothing. Been doing Sheiko for like 4 months, do I think compounds give more strength: yes. Do I think isolation exercises are necessary? No. Would somone running a bodybuilder split using only legpress and leg extensions gain as much quad size as I have? yes, maybe even more.
According to EMG studies, every kind of squat, including safety squat bar and low bar has more quad muscle fiber activation that any other known exercise, so unless the bodybuilder was using squats AND leg presses, they'd probably have the same or less growth than a powerlifter. You can look at most steroid tested powerlifters who basically only squat for quads and they have as big or bigger legs than natty bodybuilders, taking into account frequency of lifting as well. Now if you take chugging a ton of gear into account I have no idea what happens, there hasn't been any relative research.
@@Aeklypsis Id say that depends. While you might have better muscle activation squatting it is a exercise that is not purely limited by your quads. My squat for example is limited by my hamstrings. I always squat, but I do mostly grow glutes squatting regularly and quads when frontsquatting, but my ability to brace and maintain techniques at loads that would give me a hypertrophic stimulus is limited. Theres also the recovery factor as a squat uses your whole body, causing it to require more recovery. So if you wanted maximal muscle mass on your entire body you'd squat and if your quads are lacking and they arent targeted as much in your comp style squat you'd do leg extension. Thats why i'd rarely use emg activation for exercise selection. I'd also disregard most emg studies because of their low pop size.
I use to do lat pull downs and I could hardly pull 250 down... i started to deadlift stopped lat pulls for a month and went back to lat pulls and i maxed out the lat pull machine and did 250 for a set of 10.. no need to do lat pulls if you deadlift...all you have to do is squats,deadlifts,bench,shoulder press.. you do that you will be strong,big and healthy..
I trained for 10 years and made negligible progress on my arms. After focusing on isolations for the past year, I've made more progress in one year than in 10 when i ignored isolations. The main thing is that isolations help develop the mind to muscle connection with lagging muscle groups by forcing you to conciously focus on using them. A lot of people's issues lie not in the inability to move weight, but in the inability to conciously use their muscles in the intended way.
Eric you're thinking of the Steelers from the 70's with the Iron Curtain defensive line, Stan Efferding spoke about it in one of his rants advocating for emphasis on compound movements over isolation for athletes
Dan Lee say what you will but his exercises have worked for me. It really does help to isolate and increase the time under tension for each muscle. Think about it this way as well. Your biceps/triceps aren’t going to grow solely from chin-ups/bench press. At some point or another, you’re going to need to isolate. It might come as a shock to you, but Eric’s philosophy isn’t a “one-size-fits-all” dogma. To each, their own
In my first couple years of training I fell into the trap of just doing a million isolation exercises. When I switched to concentrating on cleans, squats, pull-ups, push press etc. and my physique and strength blew up
Yes I agree, but isolation for body building makes sense, because maybe they are sculpting and putting clay on their biceps but don't want any on their back. I think isolation has a time and place, mostly for hypertrophy, not total strength.
@ILLUMINAUGHTY This. As natural lifters the way we train has to be quite different. In order to do really high volume, we have to peak and prepare our bodies for it over long training blocks, and we cannot sustain that kind of volume training effectively for long periods of time.
@ILLUMINAUGHTY you keep saying natural but I read the study and the other half of the people were on gear, and even tho the sample was too small to be accurate, the enhanced lifters also did not benefit from the addition of isolation exercises.
That is not how the body works. How your muscles "look" is purely genetics. If you are strong at flat bench yet have a small chest (limb dominant), no amount of chest flies will change that.
@ILLUMINAUGHTY Isolation excercises are used to maximize the growth of a certain muscle. Its a biological fact, not something you can reall argue. If an exercise is not limited by a muscle group, then that exercise cannot trigger optimal growth of that muscle group.
Use isolations as accessories to improve your compound movements. Apply progressive overload over time, even though it will take much longer on single joint/ isolation movements. Easy. Isolations are mandatory for achieving certain proportions.
The Last 4 months all we’ve had access to is a connex box with barbells and kettlebells inside it. Myself and other guys here have only been doing multi joint exercises and all of us have seen great strength and size gains. This is the video I needed right now so I can hopefully convince the rest of the guys they don’t need the 100+ machines they cry about not having.
I personally never got much out of isolation excercises except for a pump sometimes. Been sticking to a few compound movements with all my effort when I go to the gym and it's been working better for me.
You probably did them wrong. "If an exercise is not limited by a muscle group, then that exercise cannot trigger optimal growth of that muscle group." you cant argue this fact. When was the last time your tricep tired out first on a bench press. When was the last time you tired out in your bicep when doing chin up, or pullups? And if that is the case, you are getting less lait involvement from the chin up, which is the biggest point of the excercise in the first place. Lazy people :chinups Optimal lat and bicep growth : Pullups+curls
Hey, that was my question you read at the beginning lol. I feel special Also just want to point out that I was asking for clarification, I see your point and I pretty much agree.
@@shred9475 im not saying that 40s are heavy im saying that 40s are really fucking easy for eric meaning that he could probably curl double that for sets edit: i watched his curling vids and the dude literally cheat curled more than people bench
watching this in early 2021....really excited for when Bugez makes it to Juji's new gym and shits on all the weird ass isolation machines he bought lol
Great advice bugz you confirmed what I'm always thinking when I do isolation movements. Not gonna waste my time anymore going to load up my cheat curls
I figured a lot of the isolation work is done to be able to focus on specific muscles to focus on proportions and using isolation work for fatigue management.
For me compounds are everything. When I started training and did mostly isolations progress was slow af but as soon as I started doing compounds I blew up. I still have some lagging body parts but I think that is due to other muscle domminance and genetics. Also I rarely see people with big arms that cannot skullcrush some heavy ass weight for instance.
The "only" thing I do for my triceps are dips, skullcrushers and close grip bench press + a lot of other presses. And they grew like crazy doing that, no cables or machines needed.
It doesnt work like that my friend. Its a complete insane way to argue. What works for one genetic freak or drug user, doesnt always work for 99% of the population.
I didn't really believe it but I wanted to, so I went ahead and did what Rick described as Bulgarian Light for about a month. I just went to the gym, I warmed up the joints with some bands and then I worked up to the heaviest set of 2 I could on the bench and then I'd just leave. Next day I would do the same for deadlifts and then just alternate those days 6 days a week for a month. Took about 30minutes each day, shortest time I've ever been in the gym. My bench grew from 80 to 110kg and my deadlift from 110 to 160 kg (single rep pr). I know those are baby numbers for youtube standards but I couldn't believe it. I was stuck on those weights for literally years before that. I actually hit a PR every single time I went to the gym. It felt like magic to me and it still feels like that. Sometime I don't believe I'm able to move those weights all day until I go to the gym and actually do that. Obviously I didn't transform into hulk in the span of a month but my chest and back grew noticeably. Needless to say I'm much more inclined to do the things Eric suggests in his videos now hahahaha
The thing is, if you use your muscles in a proper way than there is no need for isolation, I agree with that but most people do little to engage their all muscles. Most people can't engage all of their muscles properly or they intentionally do exercises to avoid using certain body parts (ie. you do bench in a specific way to target pecks mostly while ignoring shoulders and triceps). That's why I think using isolation as a safety measure is a great way to ensure you are hitting those smaller muscles as well. Just my two cents :)
i use isolation exeercises in order to achieve a better neuromuscular activation. i wasnt feeling a lot my chest in bench press. For months i did some chest cable flies BEFORE the bench press. Now, i when i do chest, i go straight to the bench press and the activation is so much better. They are definately useful to bring up/activate weak body parts
He would say del hagen is talking for strength and size. Juji is trying to get his tricep bigger without stimulating his shoulders or as least as possible.as an example. But i get your point.
Juji isn't natty, i think Bugez is referring to naturals that want to get stronger/bigger. Focusing on compounds is far more superior than focusing on single-joint movements for naturals, for guys that are not natural, there may be a positive side when doing single-joint movements, but i'm not sure.
Awesome video, while I like doing traditional compound exercises, isolation has its benefits, in my opinion, if supplemented with your compound exercises. If I am on my pull day, I will definitely incorporate barbell curls or bicep curls in my routine for that day; of course it won't be my main focus, I love doing my inverted rows, barbell rows, squats and deadlifts.
I do about 75-80% isolation movements at the gym. Most prioritizing mind-muscle connection, isolating the muscle not only in which exercise it is, but which muscle I’m focusing the weight onto. This applies much more to bodybuilding than wanting to get stronger AND bigger, it’s just for max muscle size growth.
Excluding discussions about science and whether the study should be trusted, personally i just dont have the energy for isolations or machines after doing compounds. For example, on my bench day I hit heavy bench first, then close grip bench for more volume. After that i do barbell rows 4x8. If im using appropriate weight on all of those movements and going hard, i dont really have the time or energy to bust out more sets of isolations. Would rather use that time to go home and eat more lmao. Just a personal anecdote to add to the discussion.
It makes more sense now when you show what you actually mean. But I still keep doing leg extensions after squats and triceps pushdowns after bench just cause I like how they feel😁💪
Look I 100% respect you and your lifts. I enjoy watching your content and agreeing with you information. But what needs to be said is a muscle won’t grow unless you work it. But I mean that as a general statement. Really what I mean is yes, compound movements can and will workout the not as direct muscles because that is what makes it a compound movement. But for maximum growth and for faster growth you as well would need to work each muscle isolated. I do compounds as well as isolated individual muscle group exercises. This does take me 2-3 hours everyday. But I am increasing muscle mass in all aspects of muscle. Can you agree on this or am I missing something? Once again I say this with respect towards you and your ways of training.
Isolation stuff is for movements you don't hit with the compounds imo. For instance if you only deadlift and do RDLs you don't get much knee flexion, that's where hamstring curls come in. (mostly for injury prevention)
I saw really good results when I was doing an Arnold based workout of supersetting opposing muscle groups with isolation exercises. I get that he was on roids back in the day so his workouts were built around his capabilities but still, it works if you can find ways to efficiently do a lot of isolation movements. I stayed really lean since I was doing so many different exercises yet still bulked up because there was so much volume in those workouts. I switched to a push/pull type spilt and am enjoying it a lot because it works better with my soccer practice schedule.
The only time I do isolation stuff is for arm wrestling. Also a tidbit that people forget, curls involve the shoulders a little bit also and even the lats. Oh wow you just said that, I'm smart.
Basically just do what you like. Although many people act like training can be boiled down to an exact science, we gotta remember that research can say literally ANYTHING (Just ask Jeff Nipples!). Some movements are probably better/more efficient than others, but not crazily so. If you don't like barbell rows, do seated cable rows. Won't be too big of a difference in the end.
Honestly my shoulders and arms lagged massively until I started doing a lot more isolation work. Compounds form the basis and isolations allow extra volume to be added to certain areas with minimal fatigue cost - but I think 99% people agree on that. And I’m not gonna do cheat curls because they cause a bunch of extra fatigue cost just to train my biceps, and hence defeat the point of isolation work. Agree to disagree, I guess!
@@thorthewolf8801 thats the point, i think hes right on a weightlifting perspective or a powerlifter POV but definetly you gotta do isolation if you want some kind of bodybuilding
Good discussion Progressing strength and reps with db curls and tricep pressdowns have absolutely added measurable mass in my arms compared to years of only compound movements. That’s me though. I do agree isolated movements like kickbacks, concentration curls have little added value in strength and size.
Bench/deadlift/front squat/back squat/OHP/bent over rows/landmines and lats pulls-pull ups. if you want volume type shit, use dumbbells for the above or use bands for the pull ups
So, mainly what i got from this is that isolation exercises such as the concentration curls and strict tricep pushdowns are mainly used to help rehab the muscle or atleast help the muscle if its lagging behind while use multi-joint exercises such as the squat, bench press, etc to build overall strength. I may be missing more from this and i apologize for missing info but overall this helps alot. Thank you
Let's say today's is arm day, you will benefit more from doing let's say first 3x6 weighted chin ups then 3x10 barbell curls instead of doing 3x10 preacher curl and a 3x10 [insert any bicep machine] overall for bicep development and workload the first 2 are better
The entire point of isolation exercises is to get your smaller and weaker muscles bigger and stronger which lowers your chance of injury when doing big compound movements. Think about it, the most common injury doing deadlifts is biceps rupture, how do you avoid it? Doing nice controlled isolation exercises for your biceps. Maybe if you are looking at overall body size growth doing only heavy multi-joint exercises is the way to go, but if you want to stay healthy and avoid injury you need to do isolation exercises for you smaller/weaker muscles.
I like to do a set of curls in between heavy push sets. It give me time to recoup while pumping blood into my arm which seems to make them more sturdy for heavy incline or shoulder press barbell etc.
From what I've seen from huge lifters is after you get to a certain size you drop most isolation workouts and just do compound excersizes because they don't benefit them anymore. I know a guy that can hit the 1,000 pound club with any of his two of three (deadlift, bench, squat) and he doesn't do abs or any arm workouts but has a 6 pack and giant arms.
isolation makes sense I guess for body builders who aren't just trying to get bigger, but sculpt their bodies in proportion. If their arms are lagging, maybe compound movements that involve the back and chest won't necessarily even things out. Or if there's a bilateral imbalance, the dominant side compensating for the weaker side in barbell compound movements. Isolation sucks, but it has its place imo
@farorin it doesnt matter. Using your hips to curl does nothing for them and shoulder usage is minimal. Its not a multi joint movement lmao its a ego thing 100%. U would be better off doing heavy farmers followed by rows. You would be stretching and flexing far more and getting a real workout as compared to.... Curls. Lmfao. Question, are muscles connected and tend to work as one? If you answer yes, your right! Only time to do isolation is medium to slightly heavy weight, AFTER a medium to heavy compound. Typically heavy-heavy would be bad. Id say medium compound-heavy isolation. A heavy curl would be 25 to 45 pounds. Thats the limit. If your stressing a fucking bicep curl with 50s 60s then your insane af, i gotta say. Isolation is for solid rep ranges and medium-heavy weight, and honestly, are only to HELP u activate the biceps in COMPOUNDS better.
Well, anecdotally, my arms blew up after focusing on isolated tricep/bicep exercises with complete focus on mind muscle connection. Also, the people I know(other than Bugenhagen) who talk shit about isolation exercises have really shit physiques and small arms.
Alex Leonidas preaches isolation. The example bugez gave for chinups and concentration is really bad imo. Chinups will not maximize the growth of your biceps
Same, my arms were lagging hard until last summer where I did many sets of bicep/tricep work after compounds, and then they blew up by 1.5 inches. Now possibly my best body part.
If you increased volume for you arms of course they grew. The mind muscle connection did nothing, you merely used good form in a full range of motion. Now did you do compounds like barbell curls and skull crusher like Eric suggested in the video?
@@travellingmerchant2915 Did you not watch the whole video? He praised the standing barbell curl because it's a multi-joint exercise compare to concentration curls.
Heavy weights make your myofribills bigger (the actual fiber) higher reps (lactic acid) makes the sarcoplasm bigger (the fluid and metabolites) ...so there it is ...
Read the description to understand the point of this video
thanks bro man
NO!
@@thomasdehon3422 he made a vid about them like 2 years go
I gotta say I've been really hitting the muscle-ups hard and realising the compound movement is superior to most other bodyweight exercises.
You should read the Greg Nuchols post about the researcher Barbalho. The study you posted on your community uses his research for the source. www.strongerbyscience.com/barbalho/
One of the other commenters gracefool posted this in a reply to someone else below.
I've been isolated for decades
Lmao rip
well you still have the internet with you
Same
so was it useless or not?
Ouch
I have been doing only curls for 3 years and my legs are T H R O B B I N G
😂😂😂
If you had curled your leg like AthleanX advised you would have gotten double the gains
Natural Hypertrophy
lifting weights will kill your gains... duh
@@VH-ew7oq I once did a kamikaze on my gains
my 3rd leg is throbbing
But Ericc, I like doing my daily 8 hour arm workouts.
*Rich Piano has entered the chat*
@@2paki918 *SHOOP AHH*
Unironically though if you like them do them
Exotic Nugget Man I cracked up 😆
But eric!!,
So, it's not that I'm cheating with ego-lifting heavy weights, I'm just doing multi-joint, compound lifts backed by scientific research of Dr. Del Hagen
This is unrelated but some “fitness” studies are some of the most unscientific bs I’ve ever read
Did you actually read this one?
@@not2stupidguitar Yea and it sucks and the dude who made it sucks
@@not2stupidguitar nope, wasn’t referring to this one just some other ones I’ve seen in the past, but not generalizing either
It’s kinda bananas how big Eric actually is
Injectible garlic extract works wonders on him. That's how he's so big natty.
His phone looks like a mandarine Orange in his meats
yea it's nuts to look at his video with juji and tom a couple years ago he looks like he gained 50 lbs
juice
He’s as big as the decade that was the glorious 80s
At the end of the day, isolation movements exist for a reason. They’re to isolate lagging body parts. Yeah compound movements will give you the most overall growth but if you’re not isolating your lagging parts, they will never catch up because you’re constantly compensating with your dominant muscle groups. If someone is shoulder dominant they need that isolation work for the chest because the bench isn’t cutting it
exactly i played baseball so i was shoulder dominate never could figure out why my chest just didnt grow put in some flys and cable crossovers and boom chest starts coming alive.
I agree with Erick on most things but not this
Smb Weideman I agree with the original post. But that was almost certainly due to your execution of the exercise. Likely Benching without properly protracted scapula and using shoulders and triceps to compensate. If a properly performed bench press is not growing your chest, nothing else will.
nickybarns i don’t think he would necessarily disagree with this statement
Smb Weideman I’ve always struggled the most with chest development and my bench strength, heavy weighted dips have done the most for me
The thing is, I listened to that for the first, 6-8 years of my training. I did all compounds. It left a lot of weakness. Then I added in the bodybuilding stuff, and for the first time, I really started to make gains on my whole body. It was like night and day. The study that I did was on myself, and that’s the one I pay attention to.
It was the exact opposite for me, and probably for most people who went the same route as me. When I first started I was clueless and doing a bro split because that's what everyone else was doing. There was slight progress then a hard stall with too much focus on isolation movements. Once I started doing compounds only strength and size went through the roof. But what you are saying is what isolation movements are for, to fill in any holes. Although it doesn't have to be isolation necessarily but something that targets a particular muscle as the limiting factor. But they should not be the base of your program.
@@mattseaton5832 I’m in the same boat as the original commenter (I’m a power lifter and always was since day one.)
The whole point of the video is that what most people think are single-joint exercises are actually multi-joint exercises in disguise. Just because bodybuilders call certain exercises single-joint exercises doesn’t mean they’re right in their terminology
for me, the isolation exercises are a tool for improving weak points in your compound movements
Eric I’ve been isolating my right forearm for years, and I’m not stopping anytime soon
gotta get that pincer crab physique
That Larry Wheels death grip for a juicy pump
Training for arm wrestling i see.
"The Del Hagen pacer test is a multi-joint capacity test...."
I think the better way of thinking about it is : your body is made to be able to do everything (within a certain range of motion), so if you want to maximize your potential ... you gotta do everything.
That's running, harcore cardio, heavy weights compound movement, and repetitive one joint type of movement. Concentric, Isometrics, Ecentrics (Isotonics ?).
Another easy way to incorporate that is : Don't get stuck doing only one type of exercise.
10:01
"Mama knows"
The mindset is just a front. Sticky Ricky is actually just Mama's project to create the most succulent and juicy human possible within the realms of conventional science.
Every time I'm in isolation I do exercises...
this dude is everywhere, can't even go to the kitchen, the dude is commenting.......
@Glutes Love it It's an inside joke between him and I, don't interfere glute man
The clash of the titans of the comment sections
Belmont Mishima 2001
let them fight...
@@NaturalHypertrophy NANANANANANNANANANNANANNANANANAN GLUTE MAN!!!! NANANANANANNANNANANNANANNANANANA GLLLUUUTTTEEE MAAANNNN🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇
I think we're all forgetting another one Ol' Ricky's golden tidbits here: Train Everyday with ZERO discipline. The bottom line is if you don't have a passion for how you train, you're not gonna train hard enough to make any serious gains.
Straight FACTS. If you don’t love your training, train another way
The thing woth studies is that its hard to do right, there are so many variables. Recovery, nutrition, level of fitness, intensity, training weights, testosterone levels. Im sure I missed some things, but that just shows you that this isnt exact science. It cant be reliably repeated.
Amen, too many variables to consider/control for in any given fitness experiment/study to get a PRECISE answer. However, thats not to say we cant get good indicators as to what may be effective.
The people who do studies know this too and control for those factors as best they can. Also, studying multi- vs single-joint excercises' effect on strength and hypertrophy has been done many times with very similar findings so there doesn't seem to be a problem of replicating results.
These studies all have similar confounding factors. Studies that demonstrate an effect typically have been vetted by peer reviewers AND the readers.
Bugez explains how the heavy lifts force you to get sloppy and creates a compound movement really nicely...
But the entire point of science research is that you can expand a result to the population with relatively small numbers of participants because the confounds are not that important - if they are not systemic in the experiment (isolation group didn’t eat properly vs compound group who ate the garlic and the honey)
Ergo lab is the best place for studies....
The study is worthless, the researchers have no credibility: www.strongerbyscience.com/barbalho/
As I read the study: Doing isolation after doing compounds did increase strength and size. They didnt have an isolation only group. 100% compounds are best bang for buck, but I dont think you need compounds for biceps, its a single joint anyways? I think the conclusion is that people have a limited recovery and you can reach it easily doing compounds, while doing more than you can recover from does nothing. Been doing Sheiko for like 4 months, do I think compounds give more strength: yes. Do I think isolation exercises are necessary? No. Would somone running a bodybuilder split using only legpress and leg extensions gain as much quad size as I have? yes, maybe even more.
According to EMG studies, every kind of squat, including safety squat bar and low bar has more quad muscle fiber activation that any other known exercise, so unless the bodybuilder was using squats AND leg presses, they'd probably have the same or less growth than a powerlifter. You can look at most steroid tested powerlifters who basically only squat for quads and they have as big or bigger legs than natty bodybuilders, taking into account frequency of lifting as well.
Now if you take chugging a ton of gear into account I have no idea what happens, there hasn't been any relative research.
The study is worthless, the researchers have no credibility: www.strongerbyscience.com/barbalho/
Also EMG studies have shown greater biceps activation in chinups than curls. That's my personal experience too.
@@Aeklypsis yh 100% bro there's a big difference between squat legs and leg press legs
@@Aeklypsis Id say that depends. While you might have better muscle activation squatting it is a exercise that is not purely limited by your quads. My squat for example is limited by my hamstrings. I always squat, but I do mostly grow glutes squatting regularly and quads when frontsquatting, but my ability to brace and maintain techniques at loads that would give me a hypertrophic stimulus is limited. Theres also the recovery factor as a squat uses your whole body, causing it to require more recovery. So if you wanted maximal muscle mass on your entire body you'd squat and if your quads are lacking and they arent targeted as much in your comp style squat you'd do leg extension. Thats why i'd rarely use emg activation for exercise selection. I'd also disregard most emg studies because of their low pop size.
barbell curls loaded heavy enough in the 8-10 rep range are surprising a great core exercise. only curl I bother doing
I use to do lat pull downs and I could hardly pull 250 down... i started to deadlift stopped lat pulls for a month and went back to lat pulls and i maxed out the lat pull machine and did 250 for a set of 10.. no need to do lat pulls if you deadlift...all you have to do is squats,deadlifts,bench,shoulder press.. you do that you will be strong,big and healthy..
I trained for 10 years and made negligible progress on my arms. After focusing on isolations for the past year, I've made more progress in one year than in 10 when i ignored isolations. The main thing is that isolations help develop the mind to muscle connection with lagging muscle groups by forcing you to conciously focus on using them. A lot of people's issues lie not in the inability to move weight, but in the inability to conciously use their muscles in the intended way.
Eric you're thinking of the Steelers from the 70's with the Iron Curtain defensive line, Stan Efferding spoke about it in one of his rants advocating for emphasis on compound movements over isolation for athletes
Go Pittsburgh
My favorite isolation exercise is the M I N D S E T curl
jesus look how he dwarfs that phone
Ryan Humiston has entered the chat*
Bugenhagen DESTROYED with "trt" and quarter reps
The contraction is the most important stop doing those heavy usless bench presses and deadlifts !
That guy has horrible training advice. It only works for him because he's not natty
Dan Lee say what you will but his exercises have worked for me. It really does help to isolate and increase the time under tension for each muscle.
Think about it this way as well. Your biceps/triceps aren’t going to grow solely from chin-ups/bench press. At some point or another, you’re going to need to isolate.
It might come as a shock to you, but Eric’s philosophy isn’t a “one-size-fits-all” dogma. To each, their own
Ryan humiston is fooling tons of noobs unfortunately
In my first couple years of training I fell into the trap of just doing a million isolation exercises. When I switched to concentrating on cleans, squats, pull-ups, push press etc. and my physique and strength blew up
Yes I agree, but isolation for body building makes sense, because maybe they are sculpting and putting clay on their biceps but don't want any on their back. I think isolation has a time and place, mostly for hypertrophy, not total strength.
@ILLUMINAUGHTY This. As natural lifters the way we train has to be quite different. In order to do really high volume, we have to peak and prepare our bodies for it over long training blocks, and we cannot sustain that kind of volume training effectively for long periods of time.
@ILLUMINAUGHTY you keep saying natural but I read the study and the other half of the people were on gear, and even tho the sample was too small to be accurate, the enhanced lifters also did not benefit from the addition of isolation exercises.
That is not how the body works. How your muscles "look" is purely genetics. If you are strong at flat bench yet have a small chest (limb dominant), no amount of chest flies will change that.
@ILLUMINAUGHTY Isolation excercises are used to maximize the growth of a certain muscle. Its a biological fact, not something you can reall argue.
If an exercise is not limited by a muscle group, then that exercise cannot trigger optimal growth of that muscle group.
Use isolations as accessories to improve your compound movements. Apply progressive overload over time, even though it will take much longer on single joint/ isolation movements. Easy. Isolations are mandatory for achieving certain proportions.
Hey dad you should try backwards hill sprints for a lot of volume I did it and my quads where DESTROYED
this is very true, they inflate the shit out of the quads
Colin Robinson right?! I never knew how good this was for quads until I tried it
yeah no better idea for a dude with a messed up knee than sprinting up a hill backwards
AcceleratingUniverse oh shit I didn’t remember
AcceleratingUniverse but he should still try it with enough music he’ll have fucking steel knees
The Last 4 months all we’ve had access to is a connex box with barbells and kettlebells inside it. Myself and other guys here have only been doing multi joint exercises and all of us have seen great strength and size gains. This is the video I needed right now so I can hopefully convince the rest of the guys they don’t need the 100+ machines they cry about not having.
I personally never got much out of isolation excercises except for a pump sometimes. Been sticking to a few compound movements with all my effort when I go to the gym and it's been working better for me.
You probably did them wrong. "If an exercise is not limited by a muscle group, then that exercise cannot trigger optimal growth of that muscle group." you cant argue this fact.
When was the last time your tricep tired out first on a bench press. When was the last time you tired out in your bicep when doing chin up, or pullups? And if that is the case, you are getting less lait involvement from the chin up, which is the biggest point of the excercise in the first place.
Lazy people :chinups
Optimal lat and bicep growth : Pullups+curls
Hey, that was my question you read at the beginning lol. I feel special
Also just want to point out that I was asking for clarification, I see your point and I pretty much agree.
If I have to choose between my curls and the stick... Sorry Rick but biceps love is the strongest mindset there is
Make a video response :)
this dude is everywhere, can't even go to the kitchen, the dude is commenting.......
wait but like can we just talk about how he casually curls 40 lbs
?? Do you find this impressive
@@boo1488 it was just mad effortless, like baseline almost, dude could prolly curl some insane weight if he wanted to
That’s not heavy
Thank you, I'm 60 and curl 40 pound dumbbells.
@@shred9475 im not saying that 40s are heavy im saying that 40s are really fucking easy for eric meaning that he could probably curl double that for sets
edit: i watched his curling vids and the dude literally cheat curled more than people bench
watching this in early 2021....really excited for when Bugez makes it to Juji's new gym and shits on all the weird ass isolation machines he bought lol
Great advice bugz you confirmed what I'm always thinking when I do isolation movements. Not gonna waste my time anymore going to load up my cheat curls
Rick: 3:58
Old dude at the gym who does a machine circuit every day for 45 minutes: *angry geriatric noises*
You're like the Justin Y. of youtube fitness
@0070 Gibran Maulana Well, the machine is doing all the stabilization for you so you're missing out on some gainz
Lol the geriatric guy is probably best off using the machines because working out is basically rehab for him
What's your take on the actual subject matter, natural muscle building expert?
I figured a lot of the isolation work is done to be able to focus on specific muscles to focus on proportions and using isolation work for fatigue management.
For me compounds are everything. When I started training and did mostly isolations progress was slow af but as soon as I started doing compounds I blew up. I still have some lagging body parts but I think that is due to other muscle domminance and genetics. Also I rarely see people with big arms that cannot skullcrush some heavy ass weight for instance.
I feel like he is the Dr. Disrespect of lifting.
Yayayayayaya
He is
No
The "only" thing I do for my triceps are dips, skullcrushers and close grip bench press + a lot of other presses. And they grew like crazy doing that, no cables or machines needed.
Eric youre my favourite dadscience fitness channel
LOOK at this guy. He is proof of what he he preaches
It doesnt work like that my friend. Its a complete insane way to argue. What works for one genetic freak or drug user, doesnt always work for 99% of the population.
@@loosecannon6142 he’s neither. Simply decades of training.
@@calmexit6483 really? A d1 wrestler isn't a generic outlier?
the Bugez is one of the good ones. so many youtubers and pt's around the world giving people TRASH information.
Once again the algo recommends an absolute classic Stick vid.
Makes me really reminisce and cherish the old Rats Nest days
Always back with insane knowledge to help me get big and lift as much as you one day.
I didn't really believe it but I wanted to, so I went ahead and did what Rick described as Bulgarian Light for about a month. I just went to the gym, I warmed up the joints with some bands and then I worked up to the heaviest set of 2 I could on the bench and then I'd just leave. Next day I would do the same for deadlifts and then just alternate those days 6 days a week for a month. Took about 30minutes each day, shortest time I've ever been in the gym. My bench grew from 80 to 110kg and my deadlift from 110 to 160 kg (single rep pr). I know those are baby numbers for youtube standards but I couldn't believe it. I was stuck on those weights for literally years before that. I actually hit a PR every single time I went to the gym. It felt like magic to me and it still feels like that. Sometime I don't believe I'm able to move those weights all day until I go to the gym and actually do that. Obviously I didn't transform into hulk in the span of a month but my chest and back grew noticeably. Needless to say I'm much more inclined to do the things Eric suggests in his videos now hahahaha
The thing is, if you use your muscles in a proper way than there is no need for isolation, I agree with that but most people do little to engage their all muscles. Most people can't engage all of their muscles properly or they intentionally do exercises to avoid using certain body parts (ie. you do bench in a specific way to target pecks mostly while ignoring shoulders and triceps). That's why I think using isolation as a safety measure is a great way to ensure you are hitting those smaller muscles as well. Just my two cents :)
This guy just spits absolute facts non stop i love it
Dr. Ricki Del Hagen, phd in Swole, got me into odd lifts.
I just love it.
Thank you for that.
I like the tidbits from Eric.. Explanation in detail....
front rack barbel shrugs have been a new addition for me, feel great
“Our bodies are designed to lift… Corpses!! Like seven corpses” 😂 fucking hilarious
Thanks Rikky, I'll remember this one. I can't wait to do curls the next time I train my traps.
i use isolation exeercises in order to achieve a better neuromuscular activation. i wasnt feeling a lot my chest in bench press. For months i did some chest cable flies BEFORE the bench press. Now, i when i do chest, i go straight to the bench press and the activation is so much better. They are definately useful to bring up/activate weak body parts
Ricky, just did Hack squats today for the first time, holy frig ,amazing pump
I had been missing out ,thanks doc
I would like Jujimufu's take on this considering he's prepping for a bodybuilding show
He would say del hagen is talking for strength and size. Juji is trying to get his tricep bigger without stimulating his shoulders or as least as possible.as an example.
But i get your point.
Juji isn't natty, i think Bugez is referring to naturals that want to get stronger/bigger. Focusing on compounds is far more superior than focusing on single-joint movements for naturals, for guys that are not natural, there may be a positive side when doing single-joint movements, but i'm not sure.
I progressed a lot with barbell curls, switched to isolation curls and I regressed in strenght. 😂
So glad I found your channel
Awesome video, while I like doing traditional compound exercises, isolation has its benefits, in my opinion, if supplemented with your compound exercises. If I am on my pull day, I will definitely incorporate barbell curls or bicep curls in my routine for that day; of course it won't be my main focus, I love doing my inverted rows, barbell rows, squats and deadlifts.
really like the analogy at the end of the video thanks for the golden tid bit my man rick the stick
i agree with everything you say but i will always do pulldowns as i love that exercise
Not really an isolation movement though.
You use more muscles.
Isolation movement for your lats would be Lat Pullovers.
0070 Gibran Maulana I really hope he’s kidding.
A pulldown is not a S I N G L E J O I N T E X E R C I S E
@@jdj2022 hahaha, it's like saying pullup is an isolation exercise.
Kj. If a pull down isn’t a lat pull down what’s a pull down!?
Looking jacked and stacked today, coach.
I do about 75-80% isolation movements at the gym. Most prioritizing mind-muscle connection, isolating the muscle not only in which exercise it is, but which muscle I’m focusing the weight onto. This applies much more to bodybuilding than wanting to get stronger AND bigger, it’s just for max muscle size growth.
Idiot you’re supposed to do mostly compounds
good for non functional fluffy muscle.
At 6:30 I think Eric is right. Victor Richards trained this way. He would pick just one compound exercise and do a ton of sets.
2016 bugez is back
Excluding discussions about science and whether the study should be trusted, personally i just dont have the energy for isolations or machines after doing compounds. For example, on my bench day I hit heavy bench first, then close grip bench for more volume. After that i do barbell rows 4x8. If im using appropriate weight on all of those movements and going hard, i dont really have the time or energy to bust out more sets of isolations. Would rather use that time to go home and eat more lmao. Just a personal anecdote to add to the discussion.
It makes more sense now when you show what you actually mean. But I still keep doing leg extensions after squats and triceps pushdowns after bench just cause I like how they feel😁💪
This is gold, Ricky, GOLD
I find isolation exercises to be extremely boring and ineffective when it comes to building practical strength. That's the main reason I avoid them.
Look I 100% respect you and your lifts. I enjoy watching your content and agreeing with you information. But what needs to be said is a muscle won’t grow unless you work it. But I mean that as a general statement. Really what I mean is yes, compound movements can and will workout the not as direct muscles because that is what makes it a compound movement. But for maximum growth and for faster growth you as well would need to work each muscle isolated. I do compounds as well as isolated individual muscle group exercises. This does take me 2-3 hours everyday. But I am increasing muscle mass in all aspects of muscle. Can you agree on this or am I missing something? Once again I say this with respect towards you and your ways of training.
2:24 I could hear the generic gymbros furiously typing on their keyboards
Isolation stuff is for movements you don't hit with the compounds imo. For instance if you only deadlift and do RDLs you don't get much knee flexion, that's where hamstring curls come in. (mostly for injury prevention)
Swear the bugez has got even more jacked. Like in this year he’s got really fucking jacked
2:48 this iPhone 5 captured a lot of gems
I saw really good results when I was doing an Arnold based workout of supersetting opposing muscle groups with isolation exercises. I get that he was on roids back in the day so his workouts were built around his capabilities but still, it works if you can find ways to efficiently do a lot of isolation movements. I stayed really lean since I was doing so many different exercises yet still bulked up because there was so much volume in those workouts. I switched to a push/pull type spilt and am enjoying it a lot because it works better with my soccer practice schedule.
The only time I do isolation stuff is for arm wrestling. Also a tidbit that people forget, curls involve the shoulders a little bit also and even the lats. Oh wow you just said that, I'm smart.
good advice mane when the weight gets heavy other muscles 💪🏼 get recruited to compensate the funk..
Basically just do what you like. Although many people act like training can be boiled down to an exact science, we gotta remember that research can say literally ANYTHING (Just ask Jeff Nipples!). Some movements are probably better/more efficient than others, but not crazily so. If you don't like barbell rows, do seated cable rows. Won't be too big of a difference in the end.
Honestly my shoulders and arms lagged massively until I started doing a lot more isolation work. Compounds form the basis and isolations allow extra volume to be added to certain areas with minimal fatigue cost - but I think 99% people agree on that. And I’m not gonna do cheat curls because they cause a bunch of extra fatigue cost just to train my biceps, and hence defeat the point of isolation work. Agree to disagree, I guess!
They're not. Even powerlifters do isolation work, and if you're lifting for physique it's a must do
Weightlifters dont... Although its a more technical sport where you need more practice, but the point still stands.
I agree its a must do if you want to target more a muscle
Watch the video before you comment
@@thorthewolf8801 thats the point, i think hes right on a weightlifting perspective or a powerlifter POV but definetly you gotta do isolation if you want some kind of bodybuilding
Sounds like you commented before the ad was over
Good discussion
Progressing strength and reps with db curls and tricep pressdowns have absolutely added measurable mass in my arms compared to years of only compound movements. That’s me though.
I do agree isolated movements like kickbacks, concentration curls have little added value in strength and size.
8:10 finally eric confesses where the NEIGHBORS WENT!!!!!!!!!!!
Bench/deadlift/front squat/back squat/OHP/bent over rows/landmines and lats pulls-pull ups.
if you want volume type shit, use dumbbells for the above or use bands for the pull ups
Let’s see a Bugenhagen max strict curl video!!
13:10 hits 3 of my favorite arm exercises. dips, close grip barbell and chin ups
Thanks Ricky, super insightful.
So, mainly what i got from this is that isolation exercises such as the concentration curls and strict tricep pushdowns are mainly used to help rehab the muscle or atleast help the muscle if its lagging behind while use multi-joint exercises such as the squat, bench press, etc to build overall strength. I may be missing more from this and i apologize for missing info but overall this helps alot. Thank you
Let's say today's is arm day, you will benefit more from doing let's say first 3x6 weighted chin ups then 3x10 barbell curls instead of doing 3x10 preacher curl and a 3x10 [insert any bicep machine] overall for bicep development and workload the first 2 are better
The entire point of isolation exercises is to get your smaller and weaker muscles bigger and stronger which lowers your chance of injury when doing big compound movements.
Think about it, the most common injury doing deadlifts is biceps rupture, how do you avoid it? Doing nice controlled isolation exercises for your biceps.
Maybe if you are looking at overall body size growth doing only heavy multi-joint exercises is the way to go, but if you want to stay healthy and avoid injury you need to do isolation exercises for you smaller/weaker muscles.
I stopped doing “direct” triceps work and started doing presses 3 times a week and my triceps are better than ever.
Oh thank God. I don’t have to do accessories anymore!
DO ANOTHER HEAVY SQUAD SHREDDING VAN HALEN IN HIS MEMORY BUGEZ
I like to do a set of curls in between heavy push sets. It give me time to recoup while pumping blood into my arm which seems to make them more sturdy for heavy incline or shoulder press barbell etc.
From what I've seen from huge lifters is after you get to a certain size you drop most isolation workouts and just do compound excersizes because they don't benefit them anymore. I know a guy that can hit the 1,000 pound club with any of his two of three (deadlift, bench, squat) and he doesn't do abs or any arm workouts but has a 6 pack and giant arms.
This was golden. Thanks king 💪
isolation makes sense I guess for body builders who aren't just trying to get bigger, but sculpt their bodies in proportion. If their arms are lagging, maybe compound movements that involve the back and chest won't necessarily even things out. Or if there's a bilateral imbalance, the dominant side compensating for the weaker side in barbell compound movements. Isolation sucks, but it has its place imo
"Ive done some studying, seems isolation is useless!" Continues to state how curls are multi joint movement... Lol love u bugez
@farorin it doesnt matter. Using your hips to curl does nothing for them and shoulder usage is minimal. Its not a multi joint movement lmao its a ego thing 100%. U would be better off doing heavy farmers followed by rows. You would be stretching and flexing far more and getting a real workout as compared to.... Curls. Lmfao. Question, are muscles connected and tend to work as one? If you answer yes, your right! Only time to do isolation is medium to slightly heavy weight, AFTER a medium to heavy compound. Typically heavy-heavy would be bad. Id say medium compound-heavy isolation. A heavy curl would be 25 to 45 pounds. Thats the limit. If your stressing a fucking bicep curl with 50s 60s then your insane af, i gotta say. Isolation is for solid rep ranges and medium-heavy weight, and honestly, are only to HELP u activate the biceps in COMPOUNDS better.
Well, anecdotally, my arms blew up after focusing on isolated tricep/bicep exercises with complete focus on mind muscle connection. Also, the people I know(other than Bugenhagen) who talk shit about isolation exercises have really shit physiques and small arms.
Alex Leonidas preaches isolation. The example bugez gave for chinups and concentration is really bad imo. Chinups will not maximize the growth of your biceps
@@travellingmerchant2915 i mean look at brian alsruhe am he does his pullups and chin ups for his harms and of course farner csrries
Same, my arms were lagging hard until last summer where I did many sets of bicep/tricep work after compounds, and then they blew up by 1.5 inches. Now possibly my best body part.
If you increased volume for you arms of course they grew. The mind muscle connection did nothing, you merely used good form in a full range of motion. Now did you do compounds like barbell curls and skull crusher like Eric suggested in the video?
@@travellingmerchant2915 Did you not watch the whole video? He praised the standing barbell curl because it's a multi-joint exercise compare to concentration curls.
Absolutely jacked
Heavy weights make your myofribills bigger (the actual fiber) higher reps (lactic acid) makes the sarcoplasm bigger (the fluid and metabolites) ...so there it is ...