Some big anime industry beef starts with a W and ends in an L for Hosoda Mamoru. article: www.japantimes... Twitter: / thean1meman Main Channel: / thean1meman
The complete hypocrisy of this man. He goes out there saying women are misrepresented and badly portrayed in animation and then proceeds to “insult” Miyazaki by saying he always chooses strong female leads because “he’s isn’t man enough” to have a prominent male protagonist. LITERALLY MAKE UP YOUR MIND BRO
@@Darkclowd I absolutely love Wolf Children and have music from it on my Spotify playlist. I'm truly not understanding what the heck this guy was going for with his comments. Maybe he drank the afterparty champagne before the party and spouted off without thinking, lol
Yeah, I really don't get it either. I never got the feeling that Miyazaki felt bad about himself as a man. More like: "I haven't seen a good female protagonist for a while. Let's make one!" He just made something he himself wanted to see.
Hosoda saying women are underestimated and misinterpreted in animation, then bad mouthing Miyazaki, the one man who's absolutely disgusted by the otaku over-sexualization of his protagonists, is ridiculous
I could kind of see Hosoda's point if Miyazaki's only movies were his early movies like Castle in the Sky and Nausicaa. There, you have the damsel and the goddess/perfect female roles pretty prominently, but those aren't his only female characters. Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Howl's Moving Castle, and Nausicaa have such wildly different female protagonists that you can't say Miyazaki has a type of female character he exclusively writes and perpetuates. It's really an unfair generalization. For the record, I love Hosoda's movies and do enjoy his depiction of female characters for the most part, but I also love all of Miyazaki's heroines and see no reason to criticize either director's work, especially considering much of the anime industry is so lacking in good, respectful female characters.
@@swordsmithing Ghibli just had such a range of female characters, be it leads or otherwise, from pompous girls in Kiki's Delivery Service, the grannies in the same and Castle in the Sky, the femme fatale in Porco Rosso, the depressed troubled lead in Marnie, the responsible girl looking for family in Up on the Poppy Hill, the soul searching girl in Whisper of the Heart, and I could go on; that criticizing them on that front just falls short. Ghibli is perhaps one of the only franchises with "safe" movies for little girls. I also enjoyed Hosoda's work so it's disappointing to see his reaction.
@@loggior.speedweed4345 Oh yeah, totally, but from a narrative perspective, her main purpose is to be in danger and need Pazu's help. It doesn't make her a badly written character by any means though, and Castle in the Sky remains my very favourite Ghibli film ever.
@@miomio6890 Yeah, Miyazaki is one of the few directors/writers who I feel creates very distinct and realistic female characters in each of his works. Whisper of the Heart, which you mentioned, might be one of his very best characters, and she's just an average girl trying to create art. There's nothing goddess-like or damselish about that.
Hosada: "i think women are underestimated in anime and often treated as objects" us: true Also Hosada: "Hayao Miyazaki has no confidence in himself as a man, which is why all his protagonists are women" us: fucking *WHAT*
I think I understand his view here, but not sure because of the way he said it. So basically there is this saying "a peaceful person is one who is capable of being violent cause if not he is just harmless", so basically I think he is asking if Miyazaki writes about women because he thinks it is better for the story or he is writing them because he is unmasculine
@@hmmmm....4831 I know that the reason why he made the leads in My Neighbor Totoro girls is because it would’ve hit too close to home for him if they were boys.
@@Momo-kun88 if I remember correctly, this will be his actual last directoral film, and the story would be pretty much based in his life story. but yea, I kinda want to see him make the protagonist as "female"
You definitely gotta be a hell kimd of an eccentric, to create anime/stories like thos directors. So make sense they have a lot of opinions, us plebs can't understand and agree with.
No, nothing's wrong with him. His criticisms were absolutely valid. But, maybe, he shouldn't have thrown too personal insults... except that, everything is spot on. Miyazaki's female characters never have immoral traits, they're the touchstones of righteous women.
@@samuraijosh1595 Yubaba from Spirited away and Captain Dola from Laputa are morally questionable character you know, I won't add Fujiko since she is created by Monkey Punch. There are probably others I can't remember if you look at the side characters.
As a woman who loves Miyazaki and Hosuda movies, this take just wasn’t it. They’re plenty of anime shows or movies this could apply to. But this criticism against Miyazaki doesn’t make sense. He’s not even part of most current day anime media either. The last thing he worked on was 14 minute short about a caterpillar in 2018. Before that was the Wind Rises in 2013. And most of his female leads are very solid characters, even to this day. Not sure what Hosuda’s point was but it missed the mark by a mile.
No, you're just salivating too hard for Miyazaki and hence you subconsciously dismiss any criticism that's brought against Miyazaki. Almost all of miyazaki's female characters are presented as the touchstones of righteousness! Nothing immoral about them at any instance at all!!! This is what hosuda is pointing out...why are women so venerated instead of just shown as normal fucking human beings...? We complain about oversexualization and undermining of women, so miyazaki's little peanut brain responds to this by going to the other extreme: basically showing women as this torch bearers of morality and righteousness.
@@samuraijosh1595 Yeah, you most likely haven't watch Princess Mononoke, right? Our female protagonist's violent tendencies are juxtaposed with other male protagonist's approach to sensitive subjects as deforestation and modernisation. And there's an actual developed villain who is female and had great motivations for her choice to oppose the spirits of the forest rather than being a cartoonishly evil villain. Do you watch Totoro and Spirited Away and call it a day? Even in the manga, Nausicaa is not morally sanctimonious compared to the villains in the manga.
@@samuraijosh1595 This, right here, is what you literally call a hater. Like a prime example. I dislike using that term, but you're literally over-the-top, name calling and ogling at people who like a person you don't.
@@vividly94 Dude, this comment section has got a good chunk of hosuda haters name-calling him. XD. My tone probably got a bit too aggresive in response to these haters. I was just trying to defend hosuda.....
Yh. Femme fatale is usually a woman who has vices, and the dude who's head over heels for her dies or gets into huge trouble because of those vices. A pop culture example would be catgirl. Also reading Maupassant's short story titled 'femme fatale' would help understanding the trope.
@@mascotwithadinosaur9353 Yh, I'm a fool for goth girls. But keep in mind femme fatale originally was trope started by insecure men afraid of strong independent women, but now it's one of the most love female character tropes out there.
A reason I love Miyazaki films so much, aside from the beautiful artwork, music and composition are that, yes not necessarily all women are portrayed as physically strong or capable, at least they aren't misrepresented in the films or ever and I mean EVER sexualised in the movies. Girls can act feminine and still be strong characters and honestly, Miyazaki emphasises this sm with the mental stability or just overall capability of his female characters.
I feel like the only time a female character in any of his movies is ever sexualized is maybe in Porco Rosso, but it's so minor that it's barely noticeable. I think there's a scene where the female lead is bathing or something, but it's honestly been a while since I've seen it, so I could be wrong. Fanservice is definitely not an issue with his movies though.
Feel like ghibli movies has always been a place where you know you can go to watch intresting female leads. There are so many different characters and personalities. Out of all things to critizise this really wasn't it. Especially considering its the anime industry. It was a very odd choice he made o.o
@@statesminds Definitely. As long those types of characters aren't solely for the purpose of being fan service or the generic damsel in distress I have no qualms at all.
Besides that a lead doesn't have to be strong in any way at all, we're drawn to interesting characters and tension, a mary sue is the antithesis of that - just imagine. "Hayao got bullied by Matsuda, but Hayao was also a 7 foot tall bodybuilder with 10 bitcoins in his pocket, so he just laughed his way home.". I saw Spirited Away once more than 10 years ago, but from what I remember, the girl was afraid and powerless for most of the movie, it would have destroyed the entire movie had she been a fearless and super omega 100x highly empowered woman despite the entire plot of the film.
I started watching Hiyao Miyazaki movies because he did an interview saying that he saw a lack in young female leads in shows and decided to make them (lots of teenage male leads etc). This director is inconsiderate in comparing himself to other artists. His comments are probably a self reflection he's making public. Hopefully he gets over himself and appreciates those who paved the way for him to have his job. Mahalo for posting this. What an unfortunate article to post.
That's actually hilarious. Only a person who has "little confidence in themself as a man" would say that about another person. If anything, Miyazaki encourages females to be strong and tells males that it's okay to have emotions and be vulnerable.
Exactly. I'd guess it's about balance from Miyazaki's perspective. He grew up in a time when a number of Japanese men were literally sacrificing their lives flying kamikaze planes against a much larger enemy. Probably saw enough men being a little too self sacrificing/not able to care for themselves.
@@reib.2853 Tbh I think it takes a lot of courage nowadays as a man to admit that your role model was your mother. Because people will say it's weak and stuff
After that dumb statements he deserved receiving a 14 minutes standing BOOOO!-ation just to balance his state of mind my man was too over the top ಠ ͜ʖ ಠ
Damn, respect for getting the VHS copy. I grew up in the age of VHS but I absolutely do not want to go back to the days of "be kind, rewind", even with my own movies 😂
Hosada: "women are mispresented in anime" *points at the only guy who has been portraying strong women in all his show for decades Hosada: "yeah I'm talking about you, buddy." Everyone else: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Miyazaki is so damn good at creating characters, I never see gender of the characters in it. Sure, it does play a role but it's not the entirelity of the movie. It's their determination and ideals that got me hooked.
this is so odd to me, I’m writing an essay in college about Ghiblis influence on the animation industry and yeah it must get tiring for currently active japanese animation feature film directors being compared to Miyazaki and all but cmon what even is this argument LMFAO..
Actually, this is not the first time I've heard about Hosoda having a problem with Miyazaki. He's directed my favourite One Piece movie: Baron Omatsuri and the Secret Island back in 2005. I liked it that much that I searched information about it and found that Hosoda actually intended to picture Miyazaki as The Baron who's of course the bad and cruel person that makes Luffy suffer while also trying to kill his friends. He never overcame the fact that he was fired from Howl's moving castle direction and it still reflects.
No offense to Hosoda-san, I love his works a lot as well but why create drama when everything is good. Why can’t we all live in harmony. 😭 Also challenging the King of Anime movies is not great move.
I like Hosoda's works a lot, but ngl I was pretty confused when I saw that Japan Times article. It was just completely out of nowhere and out of place as well as pretty unjustified.
Damn, how fragile can one's masculinity be to first comment on the portrayal of women in anime and then go on to say Miyazaki "has no confidence in himself as a man" because of the large number of female protagonists... How dense can that guy be?
I would have never in my life expected to hear Sophie from “Howls Moving Castle” described as a “Femme Fatale” 🤣 considering that she truly is the polar opposite that archetype. Also I’m so glad that Mamouru Hosoda didn’t get to Direct “Howls Moving Castle” because in my eyes that movie is perfect and honestly cannot imagine another version of it.
An very early example of a powerful female character. Oscar from Rose of Versailles. A 1979 anime adaptation of the manga that stars Oscar Francois during the French Revolution. Oscar is female but is raised to be male. It's truly an epic series.
This man made a whole movie about a child being neglected by his parents and self-soothing via fantasy, never resolved that conflict, and then dares to say anything about Ghibli protagonists
This coming from the Director of the movie responsible that Sora being seen as Tai's love interest in Digimon (as that was her role in Our War Game) even though the Director of the TV series (Hiroyuki Kakudou) went out of his way of barely telling any of the staff beforehand what he had planned for the relationships shown in the epilogue because the characters were 10 years old so he didn't want much hints of romance in there.
I know I'm a nerd when I paused the video to read the article directly from your screen, lol. Also...really happy you're posting here. Truth be told, I think I'm liking your Joey content a bit more than the Anime Man content as it isn't ao "henti" centered, lol. Though I'm one to talk...if it were BL "henti", I'd be all over that shit 😂.
I have a very high respect for Hosoda. He had directed some of my favourite classics which is my favourite Digimon film of all time, Our War Games and my favourite One Piece film of all time Baron Omatsuri. But his statement really do sounded as if he was being really salty cause he was once being rejected by Ghibli and also his beef over the creative differences with Hayao Miyazaki when making Howl's Moving Castle.
Over sexualised characters does not equal misogyny. Misogyny is a VERY specific thing. Showing disrespect to women isn’t an example of misogyny. Even literal representations of misogyny doesn’t equal misogyny. Otherwise you couldn’t tell stories about overcoming misogyny. Weak female characters are not examples misogyny. Just as strong female characters can actually be misogynistic and condescending.
The sad thing is he’s essentially appealing to people who’ll forget he exists by the time the next big thing they can rant about comes along. It’s also sad that he still carries that animosity towards Miyazaki and that he couldn’t move on from it, that shit’ll eat you up on the inside.
I love how women portrayed as having large breasts and being skinny is always trotted out as creating unrealistic body images meanwhile your typical shounen show will have hugely muscular characters with perfectly proportional physiques, 1% body fat and veins bulging out of their skin and that's totally fine. Even though building and maintaining muscle is much much much harder than just not eating too much and is just as if not more influenced by genetics as bust size. Looking like Baki Hanma or Goku is impossible for 99.99% of men even with the use of steroids. I like bodybuilding so I can even go into muscle separation and the different "ideal" ways for muscles to connect to the skeleton that is defined at birth and cannot be corrected with training. Even in the japanese context, they like their men skinny so 99% of protagonists are just that and fat people are often relegated to the "goofy friend" as they always have been in media. Can we all just agree that it isn't media's job to make you comfortable with your body? If someone demands what they see in media of people or are made insecure by what they see on media that's kinda on them and they have to fix that in themselves not demand the world changes.
I see your point, but there's a huge difference between female characters having unrealistic body proportions that are designed to appeal sexually to men, and male characters having an unrealistic muscular body that's also designed to appeal to men, particularly in the realm of a power fantasy. Neither character design is made with female viewers in mind, since it's for shounen anime, but only one design is objectifying and demeaning while the other is empowering. Just watch shoujo anime and you'll notice that the female protagonists do not look anything like they do in shounen anime, because very few women actually want to look like that. That said, I do agree that people need to stop complaining about media so much. If you don't like or agree with something, just drop it and move on.
@@swordsmithing I have seen this talking point thrown out by feminists quite alot and it's not really a convincing argument. For starters a character being considered a "male power fantasy" does not absolve it from also being considered fanservice (vice versa for women). I would imagine if we map a venn diagram of qualities your average men wish they could be and qualities that your average women find attractive, there will be way more overlapping qualities compared to non overlapping qualities. The equivalent example of a fanservice character aimed towards women would be like the male characters in free or your average otome game. While I wouldn't say that super muscular characters from shows like jojo or baki are examples of fanservice towards women, I think you're missing the larger point that Jaime is trying to make by framing it this way. The biggest problem with sexualisation in media isn't that young men/women look towards it and end up having sky high expectations of how to opposite sex looks or something (most people can separate fiction from reality), it's that some young men/women look at how some of these characters look and start internalising their own "physical inadequacies". This is a way larger problem for young people who spend too much time browsing social media than young people consuming media such as anime, because the line between what is considered real or fiction is much blurrier.
@@evazinz9755 Hey, I actually do agree with a lot of what you said, and I acknowledge that some male characters in shounen can be both power fantasies for men and fanservice for women (Gray from Fairy Tail comes to mind). However, the average male lead in a shoujo anime or a love interest in an otome game, as you pointed out, look and act nothing like the average character written for men in a shounen. (For the record, I think the objectification of men in otome games is weird too, so I'm not justifying it, just explaining how it's different.) I do agree with you that most people can tell the difference between fiction and reality, but there are still people who are obsessed with and consume content that does demean and objectify the other sex, and it's unlikely that watching and consuming such entertainment on a regular basis doesn't start shaping the way people view other human beings to some extent. Of course, social media is much worse and more dangerous because of its close connection to reality, but that doesn't mean tv and anime can't alter people's perceptions too.
I honestly felt like it's the fetishization and treatment of big-breasted women as an object that adhere to kink that disgusts people. Truth be told, as a male, I'm also creeped out occasionally by the excessive sexualization that is treated as a fetish rather than being respected as having muscles that are strong, which are fundamentally completely different foundations.
@@swordsmithing Well I wouldn't say the average male lead from a shounen show is equivalent to the male leads in shoujo/otome, much in the same way I wouldn't say the female leads in shoujo/otome are the equivalent to female leads in shounen. I also wouldn't say that most of those characters are examples of "power fantasies" either. My point was that characters that embody what is considered a "power fantasy" most likely also share a decent number of characteristics with more idealistic and fanservicey type characters, a point you agreed with which is cool. The main reason why I was pushing back against you was because the "power fantasy" argument often comes across as a non-sequitor, as though a main/supporting character who is very competent and cool can't also be considered attractive. I generally agree with your take on sexualisation, especially towards a very impressionable younger audience. Maybe we might disagree to the extent, but I'm fine with leaving the discussion here. I just think that young people internalising their own insecurities from exposure to sexualised media is a much larger problem than younger people developing sky high expectations of the opposite sex when exposed to sexualised media.
From all the clips I’ve seen, dragon maids does sexualize women and about Joey’s defense on dragon maid, in my opinion even if it is supposed to be comedic it still sexualizes them which doesn’t make it right. Tell me if I’m wrong though because I’ve only seen clips for the most part. For the shield hero Joey does have a point in Japan Times needing to see the whole picture. However, isn’t Naofumi’s and Raphtalia relationship still kinda sexualized because he kinda grooms her to like him? When I first heard him talking about it I thought he was gonna talk Malty because of her role. She lies about naofumi sexually harassing her and I can’t remember a single female role that could be seen as a positive role model, but I believe the same is true for most of the female roles.
@@Gratn bruh... Naofumi literally says to Raphtalia that he wants her to become strong enough so that when he leaves that world , she doesn't need to depend on someone to protect herself or those around her. Hell, i remember a scene where he says that he considers her as his daughter. Now sure the series is heading towards making them both a couple but i see nothing wrong with that. This slave angle was totally misinterpreted by the japan times.
@@aryant1884 depending on what part u are talking about I think I started to look with what he was talking about but then shifted a little to make a point.
@@chaitanyaanand12 I think going from a parent child kind of relationship to a couple relationship is kinda weird, especially since she is basically still a little kid age wise. I’m really far into the novel so the first and what the second season is gonna talk about is a huge blur so I can’t remember how their relationship grew. However, I do remember it just being highly unusual
Sophie is not a passive protagonist, she starts out very passive, but she definitely has agency and I'd argue that howls moving castle is an example of a house wife type character done well, her contributions to the household are clearly shown and appreciated, she takes up space and her work is shown and not just shoved in the background while pretending that it comes effortlessly.
lmao the dude went full western twitter user on Dragon Maid and Shield Hero. dont particularly like Miyazaki films or Miyazaki as a person, but Hosoda Mamoru was a 100% not thinking of what he was saying. shits so dumb
Please talk about how a majority of new anime fans usually don't like watching classics like Bleach, Naruto, early One Piece etc because of how their animation looks compared to animation like Demon Slayer or Jujutsu Kaisen
That unfortunate declaration was only envy talking. If I were one of the reporters, I would've asked him if that direct mention was because his lackluster and short lived timework in Ghibli just to see his reaction.
This makes no sense. Hosoda uses Miyasaki as an example of these directors of popular anime that use female characters for 'fan service', yet does not explain how he's come to that conclusion and is only just attacking Miyasaki's pride. So his argument is completely misplaced. He's just making two completely separate announcements in one confusing statement - that the anime industry uses sex and female features to sell their works (which, unfortunately, is very true as it obviously works); that he has a personal grudge against Miyasaki and is going public about it to start beef. Sure, if one has a complaint about Miyasaki, say it. But don't go falsely accusing your target just for bragging rights. It makes you look petty.
Well, one of Ghibli's greatest classics was Howl's Moving Castle. The credit to kick-ass female characters goes to the original author, Diana Wynne Jones, on that one. She was famous for strong, independent and spirited female characters. But credit to Hayao Miyazaki for recognising such an outstanding author and keeping the spirit of her work alive in his adaptation. I love Ghibli films, largely for their strong female characters. And Sophie definitely isn't a damsel in distress. She mops up after Howl's emotional meltdown, kicks his pathetic ass into gear when he's all 'woe is me' over going to see his former tutor, and saves both Calcifer and Howl at the end.
I feel like he's projecting or just talking out of his ass because he got a high on the confidence boost and forgot his supposed roots in why he even got here in the first place
I’m sorry did you say that Sophie, the character who spends like 90% of the movie as an 80 year old, a femme fatale? I sorry I promise I paid attention to the actual video this just made me laugh.
Actually, Joey is surprisingly wrong here. He took Goro seriously during the production of From Up on Poppy Hill, an incredible movie that he actually wrote and Goro directed, and it even patched up their relationship really well. Then, the dad in Ponyo was Hayao symbolizing the regret he feels about how he treated his son, and showing himself as the dad. An amazing channel to check out about this is STEVEM, who specializes in researched videos about anime directors, and his video about earwig and the witch really goes into Goro himself.
I mean, Joey's probably right with his point, but being inspired by a movie to choose a career doesn't necessarily mean that the movie may not have problems. However, I can't really say anything, since I haven't seen the movie in question.
knowing about this beef and then watching the one piece movie feels different. He was clearly putting him as luffy and miyazaki as the bad guy. And it was so off because it was dark as fuck for one piece. tbh i like that movie. Its sad he cant move on from howls moving castle.
I'm kinda confused, I don't remember One Piece being mentioned anywhere in the video. Which movie are we talking about here? Was there a One Piece movie mentioned in the article?
Big L, really. Just the fact one might think that one of Miyazaki’s female characters might not be strong, just because she might be more feminine, or more femme fatale or whatnot is very narrow. And really, the Cannes festival isn’t really a proper marker for quality anymore, though it still has some good pearls at times. That 14 minutes long ovation should still be taken with a grain of salt imo
We probably we would take it with a grain of saly "If"... A big "if" they gave such standing ovation to every movie there is in a Cannes festival. But they don't. They only do out for a select few out of every movie presented in there, much less for an anime and non western film. You probably can only count with 1 hand , the anime that recieved such kind of praise.
@@Snzn18 Even if they rarely do long standing ovations, that is at best a proof of something unusual, but in no way is it a proof of quality. Especially coming from the Cannes festival, even more nowadays.
@@LeSpicey I don't know what your beef about Cannes Festival but I genuinely care and liked the recent winners lately. You could say that the "unusual" long standing ovation sounds fishy but hey that opinion is just as valid as an optimisitic interpretation that the movie is just that geniunely good. Like directors also attended the festival and just like how Hosoda shows some shade to Miyazaki, I bet some Directors are also very picky about movies, probably more than us plebs. Good Luck making all those eccentrics like your movie. But the "quality" thing, you probably don't neef to worry about that lol. Regardless of it being in Cannes or not, Its a Mamoru Hosoda film so expect a Mamoru Hosoda quality of anime film. Why bother even questioning the quality. But yeah thats just my opinion, so you just do you.
@@Snzn18 I don’t have any specific beef against the Cannes Festival, it’s a fine festival, that’s all. It’s just not as good a quality marker as before. They still have good movies, but they’ve become very pompous and performative, not to the degree of the Oscars, luckily. And when I talk about quality, it’s mainly narrative and story development. I’m looking forward to Hosoda’s movie, but I’m just saying that 14 minutes long ovation, sure is interesting, but knowing how the people who attend the festival can be, that’s not what’s going to be my main driver to watch it.
Speaking of Lupin III, are you going to watch the Part 6 series that is coming out this season? It seems to be based in London and its probably gonna have a lot of mystery since Sherlock Holmes shows up. Also, what are your thoughts on the more recent Lupin parts? Not that you'll see this though xD
This entire article is nothing but bullshit. I'm not even the hugest fan of Hayao Miyazaki, and I can see this. It screams going full SJW. I also hate when people suggest that just because a female character is oversexualized, that means they can't also be strong. I honestly think that anime and manga is the absolute best medium in the world when it comes to combing the two, sexualizing female characters, but also making them strong and powerful.
The article is changing the context of what Mamoru said a lot. He said that Miyazaki places woman on a perfect pedestail, rather than flawed humans. Because he doesn't trust in his ability to write them better.
Uhm like Chihiro, the little girl who starts as a brat who doesn't wanna do anything and then learns the value of hardwork and dedication? Or the real manga version of Nausicaä, who, although being basically deified by everyone, she becomes more and more disillusioned as the story come to an end? Not every movie has to show the inner failings of a person, and there's no need in Miyazaki's work to show that.
@@GaucheEtVeule It's not my arguement to defend, I'm just saying that the news article deliberately took the words in the stupidest way possible, putting aside any actual meaning they might have. Hosoda's initial words at least leant themselves to discussion. Also, it's more or less a rite of passage for prolific directors to take the piss on Ghibli, if you thought this was bad, check what Oshii said.
yeah i know you are just stating what is on the article, but still is a dumb comment because Kiki, Chihiro, Nausicaa(in the manga because the manga is better and more complete than the movie) are all character with trying to go through problems, even Sophie Hatter is a character struggling with self-confidence, and even if they were this perfect ideal characters that hosoda is saying it wouldnt matter because Hayao Miyazaki takes inspiration in his mother on his female characters, his mom that took care of him most of his childhood
Not gonna lie, that nonsense about Dragon Maid and Shield Hero completely distracted me from the actual subject of this video. That shit is so frustrating.
@@mr.goblin6039 The same people that think the protagonist is an incel. The same people who think the story is pro-slavery. The same people that think it's a revenge story. It's all people who never actually watched the show, but heard a thing about it out of context and decided they know enough to talk about it with authority. I say that, but even people who watched the show still say stuff like this. People just can't accept reality.
I understand that Miyazaki is kinda a pain to work with. I have read that Hideaki Anno based Gendo Ikari in part in Miyazaki. If the beef was over that I could understand but this just seems weird.
Also gotta love the guy and journalist pointing that women are "always" portrayed as oversexualized damsel in distress. Dem boys never took a peek at Gunnm. Here you have a girl that's both badass, extremely well written, has a lot of depth when it comes to personality, isn't oversexualized, get crapped on by the whole world around her all the time, and still gets shit done in the end no matter the scars and difficulty. Honestly one of the best and most lovable female character to ever grace japanese production. But hey, I get it, it's way easier to get the low hanging fruits for proof of the "bad" than take an hour or two to research counterarguments. Freaking press, man...
well said Joey! Let's just wait and see Miyazaki's latest film soon, that should shut him off. Mamoru's just get cocky about his new film, but still had mad respect for Hosada.
That was a ridiculous shot at Miyazaki. But, sometimes, it kinda feels cheap when they make a lead female character then just ends up like a male hero but this time with boobs! "she's just as strong as the dudes!". It's not a real problem, but it's not always the way to make an interesting female character. Talking about Dragon Maid, one of the strong points of that show is how Kobayashi is not the strongest, but the one that manage to bring together a lot of weird people/monsters to create an eccentric but wholesome family. That is powerful.
I mean... I think making female characters interesting is the same as making any character interesting, you just make them female. Always putting female character in certain kinds of roles or the same types of personality and then do the same with males with a different set of ones seems like a problem, so I don't think it's cheap to make female characters like "male heroes but this time with boobs". Do that and also do the opposite
I really love Ascendance of a Bookworm because it feels like a very resourceful female character doing what she can within her ability to improve her own life and later on the lives of everyone around her.
I'm vaguely annoyed by the examples for works of the women named in this article. Mari Okada was the scriptwriter of Anohana, Fate Stay/Night, and most of Toradora. Sayo Yamamoto was the creator of Yuri on Ice. Naoko Yamada made K-On and A Silent Voice and also WAS INVOLVED WITH ONE OF THE ANIME THAT THE ARTICLE WAS CLAIMING AS AGAINST WOMEN (She directed Episode 8 of the first season)! It just feels like the person who wrote this doesn't really know much about anime outside of an academic level.
Why is he suddenly trying to trash Miyazaki?! That man's films always make me remember how strong, smart and capable I can be! They also made my little cousin love female protagonists! (He is a boy and strongly identified with Kiki and Kusakabe sisters). To be honest, calling Clarisse "moe" is a bit too much. I sense a lot of energy coming from her. Come on! She actually tries to escape and throws herself on a hot machine gun to protect Lupin!!!
Misogyny is hating women. Over sexualizing is not misogyny. It can be sexist, it can be demeaning, it can be patronizing. But it is not misogyny. Current society needs to get off it's high horse.
You hit every point correctly. I don't think Hosoda is as good as everyone thinks he is. Like Chris Carter of the X Files. People thought he was a master, but after seeing enough of his work over a long time people now see how bad he is at writing and directing...i think Hosoda is revealing himself to be a very flawed writer and director and now revealing his character by showing disrespect for other artists. I think Hosodas style of animation is not very appealing and his storytelling is really disappointing. Whereas Miyazaki is almost ideal. Mirai was awful. Wolf Children didn't appeal to me, Belle was really frustrating.
This doesn't really feel like a objective and genuine critic by Mamoru. He just hold grudge against Ghibli. He really hated to work at Ghibli and instead he just doing a personal and emotional rant because of his pass experience with the studio. He really got hurt when Ghibli asked him to do a film like the ones Miyazaki do
If you want to crap on Miyazaki do it for something he actually is. Like he's kind of an asshole, not a great parent and a workaholic. Also dude needs to either retire or not. But this? This ain't it cheif.. This just comes off as super petty.
Maybe Hosada hates how men are treated in some Miyazaki movies. The male side characters are the ones that are incompetent, but the one that’s opposite the female aren’t. I don’t think he gets that.
It's so hard to find out about this channel, I just seen some clips of these videos and thought yeah maybe he streamed a bit on Twitch or something but I am so glad that I found out about this channel.
The popular "The Rising of the Shield Hero" (2019) extolls the virtues of keeping women as slaves. WHAT? has the author even watched or read any of said title, I could be mistaken but doesn't Raphtalia want the crest, so she can remain with Naofumi? Also, Spoiler if you havent read ahead... it gets broken because she becomes the Katana hero if Im not mistaken.
The way I read it, it doesn't help that Honoda's controversial statements were taken by the article writer who then put a lot of their own input (particularly the one on The Castle of Cagliostro).
I am pretty sure I remember earing or reading something in university class about Miyazaki female characters being "moe" for otaku at the time. Today's definition does not really matter as we are talking about 1980s. With all the respect I have for Joeu, I think that more academic reading into Miyazaki and moe might give a bit more reason to the article. Otherwise, yeah, agree with Joey.
Yeah, the writer of that article clearly either hasn't seen Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid (the only one of the two series mentioned that I know and can speak on) or has only seen the US dub which actually pushed the narrative that A) there would be no yuri in S1 and thus have to figure out how to explain that later, and B) Western views, including that pedophilia is somehow A-OK in Japan by taking out the reprimands that Lucoa gets for being so sexual around and towards Shouta.
I wonder how Joey (or Mudan) cutted out the earthquake part of the recording, could've been a blooper but for those who know, it happened as he was talking about the article.
About the standing ovation. That's just a thing they do at Cannes. They push the standing ovation length so much just to get news coverage. The more buzz about a film before the wide release the more eyes are on it. And it for sure helps marketing when you can say this film got a standing ovation of X minutes at Cannes Film Festival. That is not to say that there aren't people that just want to show appreciation for what they've watched, but it's hard to take seriously when every film gets 5+ minutes of standing ovation. Also, it's really awkward when you actually see the clips of them. Just watch a clip of the cast of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood awakredly grinning away during their 7 mintues long standing ovation.
What he said was very dumb , the same could be said of his female characters, the truth is that when I saw that I could not believe it, I still do not think it is real news
Right!? His own argument and logic could be thrown at him. Most of Hosoda’s work HAS FEMALE PROTAGONISTS! This beef he has with Miyazaki has fried his brain. lol
I like both of their films and yeah that was uncalled for. But now that you mention it, Nausicaa is a perfect character, too perfect...hmm. Also did the old man give any response?
I really think you should just talk about anime, manga, light novels you love. It doesn't have to be an amazingly constructed video, it doesn't have to address a problem, it doesn't have to call people's attention to an unknown masterpiece. You will make those videos on your main channel anyway. Just talking about the your current favourite work of art or whatever for a few minutes is also something that I'd happily watch. No matter how normie or general it may be.
I’m surprised a lot of people, even Joey, didn’t know about Mamoru Hosoda’s beaf with Hayao Miyazaki. Basically, Mamoru Hosoda was hired to direct “Howl’s Moving Castle”, but after the script and storyboards are almost finished, Studio Ghibli fired him in replace of Hayao Miyazaki. There were a lot of saying as to why this happened, the most believable version is that Ghibli doesn’t think a nobody like Hosoda would sell, so they needed Miyazaki’s big name. Hosoda has for a long time been seen as the underdog who got betrayed by Ghibli and Miyazaki, but overcomes it and made a successful career despite the odds. So if you ask me what I think of his shit comments on Miyazaki, I’d say it’s just his usual unhealthy hatred towards him, nothing new here. And no, this has nothing to do with WOKE.
The quote is so ...meta lmaoo because i would even say that it's the opposite for miyazaki : he is comfortable enough with his masculinity to recognize that women can do powerful things and be badass without getting his ego hurt
The complete hypocrisy of this man. He goes out there saying women are misrepresented and badly portrayed in animation and then proceeds to “insult” Miyazaki by saying he always chooses strong female leads because “he’s isn’t man enough” to have a prominent male protagonist. LITERALLY MAKE UP YOUR MIND BRO
Nonsense like this always contradicts itself. It isn’t meant to make sense, which is why it never works, and people will always fight back against it.
The weird thing is Hosoda also has strong female leads. Namely Wolf Children.
@@Darkclowd I absolutely love Wolf Children and have music from it on my Spotify playlist. I'm truly not understanding what the heck this guy was going for with his comments. Maybe he drank the afterparty champagne before the party and spouted off without thinking, lol
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley that might be true 😂😂
Yeah, I really don't get it either. I never got the feeling that Miyazaki felt bad about himself as a man. More like: "I haven't seen a good female protagonist for a while. Let's make one!" He just made something he himself wanted to see.
"Ayo let's treat women better"
"You treat women better because you lack masculinity"
Breh......
ok
lol, he doesn't even get a "bruh", he gets a "breh"
doesn't deserve the on-brand, he gets the discount off-brand.
Pick a side my guy.
Ogey
@@paxonite-7bd5 Oh gay.
Hosoda saying women are underestimated and misinterpreted in animation, then bad mouthing Miyazaki, the one man who's absolutely disgusted by the otaku over-sexualization of his protagonists, is ridiculous
I could kind of see Hosoda's point if Miyazaki's only movies were his early movies like Castle in the Sky and Nausicaa. There, you have the damsel and the goddess/perfect female roles pretty prominently, but those aren't his only female characters. Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Howl's Moving Castle, and Nausicaa have such wildly different female protagonists that you can't say Miyazaki has a type of female character he exclusively writes and perpetuates. It's really an unfair generalization.
For the record, I love Hosoda's movies and do enjoy his depiction of female characters for the most part, but I also love all of Miyazaki's heroines and see no reason to criticize either director's work, especially considering much of the anime industry is so lacking in good, respectful female characters.
@swordsmithing hey! At least the princess from Castle in the Sky did something useful!
@@swordsmithing Ghibli just had such a range of female characters, be it leads or otherwise, from pompous girls in Kiki's Delivery Service, the grannies in the same and Castle in the Sky, the femme fatale in Porco Rosso, the depressed troubled lead in Marnie, the responsible girl looking for family in Up on the Poppy Hill, the soul searching girl in Whisper of the Heart, and I could go on; that criticizing them on that front just falls short. Ghibli is perhaps one of the only franchises with "safe" movies for little girls. I also enjoyed Hosoda's work so it's disappointing to see his reaction.
@@loggior.speedweed4345 Oh yeah, totally, but from a narrative perspective, her main purpose is to be in danger and need Pazu's help. It doesn't make her a badly written character by any means though, and Castle in the Sky remains my very favourite Ghibli film ever.
@@miomio6890 Yeah, Miyazaki is one of the few directors/writers who I feel creates very distinct and realistic female characters in each of his works. Whisper of the Heart, which you mentioned, might be one of his very best characters, and she's just an average girl trying to create art. There's nothing goddess-like or damselish about that.
Hosada: "i think women are underestimated in anime and often treated as objects"
us: true
Also Hosada: "Hayao Miyazaki has no confidence in himself as a man, which is why all his protagonists are women"
us: fucking *WHAT*
ok
Our heads turned 180 degrees straight towards Hosada in that moment.
I think I understand his view here, but not sure because of the way he said it. So basically there is this saying "a peaceful person is one who is capable of being violent cause if not he is just harmless", so basically I think he is asking if Miyazaki writes about women because he thinks it is better for the story or he is writing them because he is unmasculine
@@hmmmm....4831 I know that the reason why he made the leads in My Neighbor Totoro girls is because it would’ve hit too close to home for him if they were boys.
Yeah like, what was that even supposed to mean right? How do you say such a contraditory statement with a straight face? ಠ_ಠ
Miyazaki: *"Don't make me unretire again to whip your ass."*
its already too late, How do you live is already coming to make Belle look like a average movie
He's making a new film
... and make a movie about men.
Honestly. It would be awesome if he gender bent "How Do You Live?" just to make a point.
@@Momo-kun88 purely out of spite I assume lmao
@@Momo-kun88 if I remember correctly, this will be his actual last directoral film, and the story would be pretty much based in his life story. but yea, I kinda want to see him make the protagonist as "female"
As someone who really likes Mamoru's films, Jesus Christ what is wrong with him
You definitely gotta be a hell kimd of an eccentric, to create anime/stories like thos directors. So make sense they have a lot of opinions, us plebs can't understand and agree with.
Yeah, it's like he said he hate him and also like him...
Make up your mind please?
No, nothing's wrong with him. His criticisms were absolutely valid. But, maybe, he shouldn't have thrown too personal insults... except that, everything is spot on. Miyazaki's female characters never have immoral traits, they're the touchstones of righteous women.
@@samuraijosh1595 Yubaba from Spirited away and Captain Dola from Laputa are morally questionable character you know, I won't add Fujiko since she is created by Monkey Punch.
There are probably others I can't remember if you look at the side characters.
it's same with youtube drama now with anime director drama and people love it.
As a woman who loves Miyazaki and Hosuda movies, this take just wasn’t it. They’re plenty of anime shows or movies this could apply to. But this criticism against Miyazaki doesn’t make sense. He’s not even part of most current day anime media either. The last thing he worked on was 14 minute short about a caterpillar in 2018. Before that was the Wind Rises in 2013. And most of his female leads are very solid characters, even to this day.
Not sure what Hosuda’s point was but it missed the mark by a mile.
No, you're just salivating too hard for Miyazaki and hence you subconsciously dismiss any criticism that's brought against Miyazaki. Almost all of miyazaki's female characters are presented as the touchstones of righteousness! Nothing immoral about them at any instance at all!!! This is what hosuda is pointing out...why are women so venerated instead of just shown as normal fucking human beings...? We complain about oversexualization and undermining of women, so miyazaki's little peanut brain responds to this by going to the other extreme: basically showing women as this torch bearers of morality and righteousness.
All Ghibli's got going for it is some really nice animation and sometimes good plot. NOT THE "AMAZING" FEMALE CHARACTERS.
@@samuraijosh1595 Yeah, you most likely haven't watch Princess Mononoke, right? Our female protagonist's violent tendencies are juxtaposed with other male protagonist's approach to sensitive subjects as deforestation and modernisation. And there's an actual developed villain who is female and had great motivations for her choice to oppose the spirits of the forest rather than being a cartoonishly evil villain. Do you watch Totoro and Spirited Away and call it a day? Even in the manga, Nausicaa is not morally sanctimonious compared to the villains in the manga.
@@samuraijosh1595 This, right here, is what you literally call a hater. Like a prime example. I dislike using that term, but you're literally over-the-top, name calling and ogling at people who like a person you don't.
@@vividly94 Dude, this comment section has got a good chunk of hosuda haters name-calling him. XD. My tone probably got a bit too aggresive in response to these haters. I was just trying to defend hosuda.....
Just to correct you: Femme Fatale is not Damsel in Distress! Femme Fatale literally means "deadly woman", often seen in action movies and noir films.
Yh. Femme fatale is usually a woman who has vices, and the dude who's head over heels for her dies or gets into huge trouble because of those vices. A pop culture example would be catgirl. Also reading Maupassant's short story titled 'femme fatale' would help understanding the trope.
@@hanansheikh5016 Ok so today I learned that the type of women I fall for *in media* are called "femme fatale".
@@mascotwithadinosaur9353 Yh, I'm a fool for goth girls. But keep in mind femme fatale originally was trope started by insecure men afraid of strong independent women, but now it's one of the most love female character tropes out there.
Was just going to comment to say that! Honestly couldn't help but laugh a little when he called Sophie a femme fatale lmao
@@attabooii Sophie of Howl´s Moving Castle was more a Hollywood Homely or even a Girl Next Door rather than a Femme Fatale.
A reason I love Miyazaki films so much, aside from the beautiful artwork, music and composition are that, yes not necessarily all women are portrayed as physically strong or capable, at least they aren't misrepresented in the films or ever and I mean EVER sexualised in the movies. Girls can act feminine and still be strong characters and honestly, Miyazaki emphasises this sm with the mental stability or just overall capability of his female characters.
I feel like the only time a female character in any of his movies is ever sexualized is maybe in Porco Rosso, but it's so minor that it's barely noticeable. I think there's a scene where the female lead is bathing or something, but it's honestly been a while since I've seen it, so I could be wrong. Fanservice is definitely not an issue with his movies though.
Feel like ghibli movies has always been a place where you know you can go to watch intresting female leads. There are so many different characters and personalities. Out of all things to critizise this really wasn't it. Especially considering its the anime industry. It was a very odd choice he made o.o
I think a woman can have sex appeal and be interesting and empowered
@@statesminds Definitely. As long those types of characters aren't solely for the purpose of being fan service or the generic damsel in distress I have no qualms at all.
Besides that a lead doesn't have to be strong in any way at all, we're drawn to interesting characters and tension, a mary sue is the antithesis of that - just imagine. "Hayao got bullied by Matsuda, but Hayao was also a 7 foot tall bodybuilder with 10 bitcoins in his pocket, so he just laughed his way home.". I saw Spirited Away once more than 10 years ago, but from what I remember, the girl was afraid and powerless for most of the movie, it would have destroyed the entire movie had she been a fearless and super omega 100x highly empowered woman despite the entire plot of the film.
I started watching Hiyao Miyazaki movies because he did an interview saying that he saw a lack in young female leads in shows and decided to make them (lots of teenage male leads etc). This director is inconsiderate in comparing himself to other artists. His comments are probably a self reflection he's making public. Hopefully he gets over himself and appreciates those who paved the way for him to have his job. Mahalo for posting this. What an unfortunate article to post.
That's actually hilarious. Only a person who has "little confidence in themself as a man" would say that about another person. If anything, Miyazaki encourages females to be strong and tells males that it's okay to have emotions and be vulnerable.
Exactly. I'd guess it's about balance from Miyazaki's perspective. He grew up in a time when a number of Japanese men were literally sacrificing their lives flying kamikaze planes against a much larger enemy. Probably saw enough men being a little too self sacrificing/not able to care for themselves.
Hm, I read an article that one of his prominent figure growing up was his mother , which several of his characters were inspired by her. wow
@@reib.2853 Tbh I think it takes a lot of courage nowadays as a man to admit that your role model was your mother. Because people will say it's weak and stuff
and besides, miyazaki never put down men to empower the female characters, always balanced.
You said it all Jin 👌
He could have called out any of these problematic animes/directors and he chose Miyazaki??? Really?
Chose*
There are no problematic anime/directors...there are shows/characters that you can like or not. Thats it.
After that dumb statements he deserved receiving a 14 minutes standing BOOOO!-ation just to balance his state of mind my man was too over the top ಠ ͜ʖ ಠ
When you inspired by your heroes, gain some notoriety and then think you're BETTER than your heroes. Sounds like an ego trip to me lol.
"You get no sympathy from me."
Just bought The Digimon movie on VHS gotta experience that nostalgia again.
ok
Facts
Damn, respect for getting the VHS copy. I grew up in the age of VHS but I absolutely do not want to go back to the days of "be kind, rewind", even with my own movies 😂
The Digimon movie, summer wars, wolf children as well as boy and the beast are all fantastic.
I got it on my hard drive. I used to have it on tape but that's when I was a kid
Hosada: "women are mispresented in anime"
*points at the only guy who has been portraying strong women in all his show for decades
Hosada: "yeah I'm talking about you, buddy."
Everyone else: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honestly what was this man trying to prove? He just made a fool of himself and tried to act woke when he really didn’t know what he was talking about…
Some people can really do anything for some clout
There's absolutely nothing woke about Japanese people, trust me. (So idk why he said that)
Miyazaki is so damn good at creating characters, I never see gender of the characters in it. Sure, it does play a role but it's not the entirelity of the movie. It's their determination and ideals that got me hooked.
this is so odd to me, I’m writing an essay in college about Ghiblis influence on the animation industry and yeah it must get tiring for currently active japanese animation feature film directors being compared to Miyazaki and all but cmon what even is this argument LMFAO..
Actually, this is not the first time I've heard about Hosoda having a problem with Miyazaki. He's directed my favourite One Piece movie: Baron Omatsuri and the Secret Island back in 2005. I liked it that much that I searched information about it and found that Hosoda actually intended to picture Miyazaki as The Baron who's of course the bad and cruel person that makes Luffy suffer while also trying to kill his friends.
He never overcame the fact that he was fired from Howl's moving castle direction and it still reflects.
No offense to Hosoda-san, I love his works a lot as well but why create drama when everything is good. Why can’t we all live in harmony. 😭 Also challenging the King of Anime movies is not great move.
But that's boring, stirring stupid shit is fun!
I hope that is not thh hill he wants to die on or drama bait for attention. He doesnt need that.
Gotta say, I enjoy these more chill little bits. Good stuff.
I like Hosoda's works a lot, but ngl I was pretty confused when I saw that Japan Times article. It was just completely out of nowhere and out of place as well as pretty unjustified.
Damn, how fragile can one's masculinity be to first comment on the portrayal of women in anime and then go on to say Miyazaki "has no confidence in himself as a man" because of the large number of female protagonists... How dense can that guy be?
its projection it sounds like lol
Thinking that strong female characters must be physically strong is just a clear tell that you did not bother finding out what youre talking about
Exactly!
I would have never in my life expected to hear Sophie from “Howls Moving Castle” described as a “Femme Fatale” 🤣 considering that she truly is the polar opposite that archetype.
Also I’m so glad that Mamouru Hosoda didn’t get to Direct “Howls Moving Castle” because in my eyes that movie is perfect and honestly cannot imagine another version of it.
Dude is a clown at this point. Poor Sophie btw... 🤣🤣🤣
An very early example of a powerful female character. Oscar from Rose of Versailles. A 1979 anime adaptation of the manga that stars Oscar Francois during the French Revolution. Oscar is female but is raised to be male. It's truly an epic series.
This man made a whole movie about a child being neglected by his parents and self-soothing via fantasy, never resolved that conflict, and then dares to say anything about Ghibli protagonists
Which film was that?
@@kugansivasakthy2091 Mirai no Mirai
EXACTLY my problem with that overrated tripe!
Thank you
Standing ovations in Cannes have historically been minutes long, some even reaching over 20 minutes. A ridiculous self indulgent tradition.
Yeah. To give Belle any minute of standing ovation is a bit nauseating.
This coming from the Director of the movie responsible that Sora being seen as Tai's love interest in Digimon (as that was her role in Our War Game) even though the Director of the TV series (Hiroyuki Kakudou) went out of his way of barely telling any of the staff beforehand what he had planned for the relationships shown in the epilogue because the characters were 10 years old so he didn't want much hints of romance in there.
I know I'm a nerd when I paused the video to read the article directly from your screen, lol. Also...really happy you're posting here. Truth be told, I think I'm liking your Joey content a bit more than the Anime Man content as it isn't ao "henti" centered, lol.
Though I'm one to talk...if it were BL "henti", I'd be all over that shit 😂.
I have a very high respect for Hosoda. He had directed some of my favourite classics which is my favourite Digimon film of all time, Our War Games and my favourite One Piece film of all time Baron Omatsuri. But his statement really do sounded as if he was being really salty cause he was once being rejected by Ghibli and also his beef over the creative differences with Hayao Miyazaki when making Howl's Moving Castle.
We do need more female writers, producers, and directors in Japanese media and storytelling.
this is the earthquake video right kekw
Yea lol
?
@@rga7099 when he was shooting this video , earthquake occured . Check his twitter .
Over sexualised characters does not equal misogyny. Misogyny is a VERY specific thing. Showing disrespect to women isn’t an example of misogyny.
Even literal representations of misogyny doesn’t equal misogyny. Otherwise you couldn’t tell stories about overcoming misogyny. Weak female characters are not examples misogyny. Just as strong female characters can actually be misogynistic and condescending.
The sad thing is he’s essentially appealing to people who’ll forget he exists by the time the next big thing they can rant about comes along. It’s also sad that he still carries that animosity towards Miyazaki and that he couldn’t move on from it, that shit’ll eat you up on the inside.
The things Men do for pride.
I love how women portrayed as having large breasts and being skinny is always trotted out as creating unrealistic body images meanwhile your typical shounen show will have hugely muscular characters with perfectly proportional physiques, 1% body fat and veins bulging out of their skin and that's totally fine. Even though building and maintaining muscle is much much much harder than just not eating too much and is just as if not more influenced by genetics as bust size. Looking like Baki Hanma or Goku is impossible for 99.99% of men even with the use of steroids. I like bodybuilding so I can even go into muscle separation and the different "ideal" ways for muscles to connect to the skeleton that is defined at birth and cannot be corrected with training. Even in the japanese context, they like their men skinny so 99% of protagonists are just that and fat people are often relegated to the "goofy friend" as they always have been in media. Can we all just agree that it isn't media's job to make you comfortable with your body? If someone demands what they see in media of people or are made insecure by what they see on media that's kinda on them and they have to fix that in themselves not demand the world changes.
I see your point, but there's a huge difference between female characters having unrealistic body proportions that are designed to appeal sexually to men, and male characters having an unrealistic muscular body that's also designed to appeal to men, particularly in the realm of a power fantasy. Neither character design is made with female viewers in mind, since it's for shounen anime, but only one design is objectifying and demeaning while the other is empowering. Just watch shoujo anime and you'll notice that the female protagonists do not look anything like they do in shounen anime, because very few women actually want to look like that.
That said, I do agree that people need to stop complaining about media so much. If you don't like or agree with something, just drop it and move on.
@@swordsmithing I have seen this talking point thrown out by feminists quite alot and it's not really a convincing argument. For starters a character being considered a "male power fantasy" does not absolve it from also being considered fanservice (vice versa for women). I would imagine if we map a venn diagram of qualities your average men wish they could be and qualities that your average women find attractive, there will be way more overlapping qualities compared to non overlapping qualities. The equivalent example of a fanservice character aimed towards women would be like the male characters in free or your average otome game. While I wouldn't say that super muscular characters from shows like jojo or baki are examples of fanservice towards women, I think you're missing the larger point that Jaime is trying to make by framing it this way.
The biggest problem with sexualisation in media isn't that young men/women look towards it and end up having sky high expectations of how to opposite sex looks or something (most people can separate fiction from reality), it's that some young men/women look at how some of these characters look and start internalising their own "physical inadequacies". This is a way larger problem for young people who spend too much time browsing social media than young people consuming media such as anime, because the line between what is considered real or fiction is much blurrier.
@@evazinz9755 Hey, I actually do agree with a lot of what you said, and I acknowledge that some male characters in shounen can be both power fantasies for men and fanservice for women (Gray from Fairy Tail comes to mind). However, the average male lead in a shoujo anime or a love interest in an otome game, as you pointed out, look and act nothing like the average character written for men in a shounen. (For the record, I think the objectification of men in otome games is weird too, so I'm not justifying it, just explaining how it's different.)
I do agree with you that most people can tell the difference between fiction and reality, but there are still people who are obsessed with and consume content that does demean and objectify the other sex, and it's unlikely that watching and consuming such entertainment on a regular basis doesn't start shaping the way people view other human beings to some extent. Of course, social media is much worse and more dangerous because of its close connection to reality, but that doesn't mean tv and anime can't alter people's perceptions too.
I honestly felt like it's the fetishization and treatment of big-breasted women as an object that adhere to kink that disgusts people. Truth be told, as a male, I'm also creeped out occasionally by the excessive sexualization that is treated as a fetish rather than being respected as having muscles that are strong, which are fundamentally completely different foundations.
@@swordsmithing Well I wouldn't say the average male lead from a shounen show is equivalent to the male leads in shoujo/otome, much in the same way I wouldn't say the female leads in shoujo/otome are the equivalent to female leads in shounen. I also wouldn't say that most of those characters are examples of "power fantasies" either. My point was that characters that embody what is considered a "power fantasy" most likely also share a decent number of characteristics with more idealistic and fanservicey type characters, a point you agreed with which is cool. The main reason why I was pushing back against you was because the "power fantasy" argument often comes across as a non-sequitor, as though a main/supporting character who is very competent and cool can't also be considered attractive.
I generally agree with your take on sexualisation, especially towards a very impressionable younger audience. Maybe we might disagree to the extent, but I'm fine with leaving the discussion here. I just think that young people internalising their own insecurities from exposure to sexualised media is a much larger problem than younger people developing sky high expectations of the opposite sex when exposed to sexualised media.
I do be here after 27 seconds, excited to hear about the beef haha
Same
The Japan Times are kind of embarassing a lot of times
Man I agree with you Japan Times really messed up with the examples.
From all the clips I’ve seen, dragon maids does sexualize women and about Joey’s defense on dragon maid, in my opinion even if it is supposed to be comedic it still sexualizes them which doesn’t make it right. Tell me if I’m wrong though because I’ve only seen clips for the most part.
For the shield hero Joey does have a point in Japan Times needing to see the whole picture. However, isn’t Naofumi’s and Raphtalia relationship still kinda sexualized because he kinda grooms her to like him? When I first heard him talking about it I thought he was gonna talk Malty because of her role. She lies about naofumi sexually harassing her and I can’t remember a single female role that could be seen as a positive role model, but I believe the same is true for most of the female roles.
@@Gratn Did you even read the article? And what Joey is pointing out.
@@Gratn bruh... Naofumi literally says to Raphtalia that he wants her to become strong enough so that when he leaves that world , she doesn't need to depend on someone to protect herself or those around her. Hell, i remember a scene where he says that he considers her as his daughter. Now sure the series is heading towards making them both a couple but i see nothing wrong with that. This slave angle was totally misinterpreted by the japan times.
@@aryant1884 depending on what part u are talking about I think I started to look with what he was talking about but then shifted a little to make a point.
@@chaitanyaanand12 I think going from a parent child kind of relationship to a couple relationship is kinda weird, especially since she is basically still a little kid age wise. I’m really far into the novel so the first and what the
second season is gonna talk about is a huge blur so I can’t remember how their relationship grew. However, I do remember it just being highly unusual
Sophie is not a passive protagonist, she starts out very passive, but she definitely has agency and I'd argue that howls moving castle is an example of a house wife type character done well, her contributions to the household are clearly shown and appreciated, she takes up space and her work is shown and not just shoved in the background while pretending that it comes effortlessly.
lmao the dude went full western twitter user on Dragon Maid and Shield Hero.
dont particularly like Miyazaki films or Miyazaki as a person, but Hosoda Mamoru was a 100% not thinking of what he was saying. shits so dumb
Please talk about how a majority of new anime fans usually don't like watching classics like Bleach, Naruto, early One Piece etc because of how their animation looks compared to animation like Demon Slayer or Jujutsu Kaisen
I love Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, but the Lucoa-Shouta relationship gets real icky at points. The rest of your points are solid though.
Hosoda is on drugs. You don't mess with the legend
Mamoru Hosoda still sounds salty at the Howls moving Castle altercation
That unfortunate declaration was only envy talking.
If I were one of the reporters, I would've asked him if that direct mention was because his lackluster and short lived timework in Ghibli just to see his reaction.
I thought this was gonna be a Dhar Mann parody because of the title
Thank you for the video in the main channel and the second channel hope you and Aki are okay after the earthquake.
This makes no sense. Hosoda uses Miyasaki as an example of these directors of popular anime that use female characters for 'fan service', yet does not explain how he's come to that conclusion and is only just attacking Miyasaki's pride. So his argument is completely misplaced. He's just making two completely separate announcements in one confusing statement - that the anime industry uses sex and female features to sell their works (which, unfortunately, is very true as it obviously works); that he has a personal grudge against Miyasaki and is going public about it to start beef.
Sure, if one has a complaint about Miyasaki, say it. But don't go falsely accusing your target just for bragging rights. It makes you look petty.
Well, one of Ghibli's greatest classics was Howl's Moving Castle. The credit to kick-ass female characters goes to the original author, Diana Wynne Jones, on that one. She was famous for strong, independent and spirited female characters. But credit to Hayao Miyazaki for recognising such an outstanding author and keeping the spirit of her work alive in his adaptation. I love Ghibli films, largely for their strong female characters. And Sophie definitely isn't a damsel in distress. She mops up after Howl's emotional meltdown, kicks his pathetic ass into gear when he's all 'woe is me' over going to see his former tutor, and saves both Calcifer and Howl at the end.
Women's are leading so what??? What he said is totally illogical.
I feel like he's projecting or just talking out of his ass because he got a high on the confidence boost and forgot his supposed roots in why he even got here in the first place
@@liminalniko maybe.
The one dunking on shield hero never actually watched it, lol.
I’m sorry did you say that Sophie, the character who spends like 90% of the movie as an 80 year old, a femme fatale? I sorry I promise I paid attention to the actual video this just made me laugh.
I was like,, Joey, do you know what a femme fatale is? 💀
I was so confused by that as well lol. Sophie (especially in the book, but in the movie too) is many things, but a femme fatale is not one of them.
the problem with joey is that he thinks he's way smarter than he actually is, he often ends up drowning himself in his own ignorance
Joey:-Not even his dad has taken him seriously since the beginning of his career
Goro miyazaki:- Dead*😂😂😂
Bit ironic to throw an unwarranted cheap shot in a video calling someone out for taking shots sigh
Actually, Joey is surprisingly wrong here. He took Goro seriously during the production of From Up on Poppy Hill, an incredible movie that he actually wrote and Goro directed, and it even patched up their relationship really well. Then, the dad in Ponyo was Hayao symbolizing the regret he feels about how he treated his son, and showing himself as the dad. An amazing channel to check out about this is STEVEM, who specializes in researched videos about anime directors, and his video about earwig and the witch really goes into Goro himself.
I'm a hosoda fanboy but he took an L.
I mean, Joey's probably right with his point, but being inspired by a movie to choose a career doesn't necessarily mean that the movie may not have problems. However, I can't really say anything, since I haven't seen the movie in question.
bell looks like a summer wars bootleg with a beuty and the beast theme
knowing about this beef and then watching the one piece movie feels different. He was clearly putting him as luffy and miyazaki as the bad guy. And it was so off because it was dark as fuck for one piece. tbh i like that movie. Its sad he cant move on from howls moving castle.
That movie was the best one-piece movie
I'm kinda confused, I don't remember One Piece being mentioned anywhere in the video.
Which movie are we talking about here? Was there a One Piece movie mentioned in the article?
@@monke8949 He did the 6th one piece movie. And he did that immediately after leaving howls moving castle so theres smell of fresh beef.
Big L, really. Just the fact one might think that one of Miyazaki’s female characters might not be strong, just because she might be more feminine, or more femme fatale or whatnot is very narrow.
And really, the Cannes festival isn’t really a proper marker for quality anymore, though it still has some good pearls at times.
That 14 minutes long ovation should still be taken with a grain of salt imo
ok
We probably we would take it with a grain of saly "If"...
A big "if" they gave such standing ovation to every movie there is in a Cannes festival. But they don't. They only do out for a select few out of every movie presented in there, much less for an anime and non western film.
You probably can only count with 1 hand , the anime that recieved such kind of praise.
@@Snzn18 Even if they rarely do long standing ovations, that is at best a proof of something unusual, but in no way is it a proof of quality.
Especially coming from the Cannes festival, even more nowadays.
@@LeSpicey I don't know what your beef about Cannes Festival but I genuinely care and liked the recent winners lately.
You could say that the "unusual" long standing ovation sounds fishy but hey that opinion is just as valid as an optimisitic interpretation that the movie is just that geniunely good.
Like directors also attended the festival and just like how Hosoda shows some shade to Miyazaki, I bet some Directors are also very picky about movies, probably more than us plebs. Good Luck making all those eccentrics like your movie.
But the "quality" thing, you probably don't neef to worry about that lol.
Regardless of it being in Cannes or not, Its a Mamoru Hosoda film so expect a Mamoru Hosoda quality of anime film. Why bother even questioning the quality.
But yeah thats just my opinion, so you just do you.
@@Snzn18 I don’t have any specific beef against the Cannes Festival, it’s a fine festival, that’s all.
It’s just not as good a quality marker as before. They still have good movies, but they’ve become very pompous and performative, not to the degree of the Oscars, luckily.
And when I talk about quality, it’s mainly narrative and story development.
I’m looking forward to Hosoda’s movie, but I’m just saying that 14 minutes long ovation, sure is interesting, but knowing how the people who attend the festival can be, that’s not what’s going to be my main driver to watch it.
Speaking of Lupin III, are you going to watch the Part 6 series that is coming out this season? It seems to be based in London and its probably gonna have a lot of mystery since Sherlock Holmes shows up. Also, what are your thoughts on the more recent Lupin parts? Not that you'll see this though xD
When you’re throwing a ball so curved it return and hit your face.
This entire article is nothing but bullshit. I'm not even the hugest fan of Hayao Miyazaki, and I can see this. It screams going full SJW. I also hate when people suggest that just because a female character is oversexualized, that means they can't also be strong. I honestly think that anime and manga is the absolute best medium in the world when it comes to combing the two, sexualizing female characters, but also making them strong and powerful.
The article is changing the context of what Mamoru said a lot.
He said that Miyazaki places woman on a perfect pedestail, rather than flawed humans. Because he doesn't trust in his ability to write them better.
Uhm like Chihiro, the little girl who starts as a brat who doesn't wanna do anything and then learns the value of hardwork and dedication?
Or the real manga version of Nausicaä, who, although being basically deified by everyone, she becomes more and more disillusioned as the story come to an end?
Not every movie has to show the inner failings of a person, and there's no need in Miyazaki's work to show that.
@@GaucheEtVeule
It's not my arguement to defend, I'm just saying that the news article deliberately took the words in the stupidest way possible, putting aside any actual meaning they might have. Hosoda's initial words at least leant themselves to discussion.
Also, it's more or less a rite of passage for prolific directors to take the piss on Ghibli, if you thought this was bad, check what Oshii said.
yeah i know you are just stating what is on the article, but still is a dumb comment because Kiki, Chihiro, Nausicaa(in the manga because the manga is better and more complete than the movie) are all character with trying to go through problems, even Sophie Hatter is a character struggling with self-confidence, and even if they were this perfect ideal characters that hosoda is saying it wouldnt matter because Hayao Miyazaki takes inspiration in his mother on his female characters, his mom that took care of him most of his childhood
Not gonna lie, that nonsense about Dragon Maid and Shield Hero completely distracted me from the actual subject of this video. That shit is so frustrating.
Yeah, like who’s still mad about Shield Hero in 2021!? lol
@@mr.goblin6039 The same people that think the protagonist is an incel.
The same people who think the story is pro-slavery.
The same people that think it's a revenge story.
It's all people who never actually watched the show, but heard a thing about it out of context and decided they know enough to talk about it with authority.
I say that, but even people who watched the show still say stuff like this. People just can't accept reality.
I understand that Miyazaki is kinda a pain to work with. I have read that Hideaki Anno based Gendo Ikari in part in Miyazaki. If the beef was over that I could understand but this just seems weird.
Also gotta love the guy and journalist pointing that women are "always" portrayed as oversexualized damsel in distress. Dem boys never took a peek at Gunnm. Here you have a girl that's both badass, extremely well written, has a lot of depth when it comes to personality, isn't oversexualized, get crapped on by the whole world around her all the time, and still gets shit done in the end no matter the scars and difficulty. Honestly one of the best and most lovable female character to ever grace japanese production.
But hey, I get it, it's way easier to get the low hanging fruits for proof of the "bad" than take an hour or two to research counterarguments. Freaking press, man...
Basically this happen.
Miyazaki:
Hosoda: F U Miyazaki
Miyazaki: WTF?
well said Joey! Let's just wait and see Miyazaki's latest film soon, that should shut him off. Mamoru's just get cocky about his new film, but still had mad respect for Hosada.
That was a ridiculous shot at Miyazaki.
But, sometimes, it kinda feels cheap when they make a lead female character then just ends up like a male hero but this time with boobs! "she's just as strong as the dudes!".
It's not a real problem, but it's not always the way to make an interesting female character.
Talking about Dragon Maid, one of the strong points of that show is how Kobayashi is not the strongest, but the one that manage to bring together a lot of weird people/monsters to create an eccentric but wholesome family. That is powerful.
I mean... I think making female characters interesting is the same as making any character interesting, you just make them female. Always putting female character in certain kinds of roles or the same types of personality and then do the same with males with a different set of ones seems like a problem, so I don't think it's cheap to make female characters like "male heroes but this time with boobs". Do that and also do the opposite
I really love Ascendance of a Bookworm because it feels like a very resourceful female character doing what she can within her ability to improve her own life and later on the lives of everyone around her.
I'm vaguely annoyed by the examples for works of the women named in this article. Mari Okada was the scriptwriter of Anohana, Fate Stay/Night, and most of Toradora. Sayo Yamamoto was the creator of Yuri on Ice. Naoko Yamada made K-On and A Silent Voice and also WAS INVOLVED WITH ONE OF THE ANIME THAT THE ARTICLE WAS CLAIMING AS AGAINST WOMEN (She directed Episode 8 of the first season)! It just feels like the person who wrote this doesn't really know much about anime outside of an academic level.
Why is he suddenly trying to trash Miyazaki?! That man's films always make me remember how strong, smart and capable I can be! They also made my little cousin love female protagonists! (He is a boy and strongly identified with Kiki and Kusakabe sisters). To be honest, calling Clarisse "moe" is a bit too much. I sense a lot of energy coming from her. Come on! She actually tries to escape and throws herself on a hot machine gun to protect Lupin!!!
I guess this is the main channel now
"The women comes and says like these goddamn men can't do anything I'll do the dirty work"
- henti boy
Misogyny is hating women. Over sexualizing is not misogyny. It can be sexist, it can be demeaning, it can be patronizing. But it is not misogyny. Current society needs to get off it's high horse.
Thank you for uploading on this channel, son.
You hit every point correctly. I don't think Hosoda is as good as everyone thinks he is. Like Chris Carter of the X Files. People thought he was a master, but after seeing enough of his work over a long time people now see how bad he is at writing and directing...i think Hosoda is revealing himself to be a very flawed writer and director and now revealing his character by showing disrespect for other artists. I think Hosodas style of animation is not very appealing and his storytelling is really disappointing. Whereas Miyazaki is almost ideal. Mirai was awful. Wolf Children didn't appeal to me, Belle was really frustrating.
This doesn't really feel like a objective and genuine critic by Mamoru. He just hold grudge against Ghibli. He really hated to work at Ghibli and instead he just doing a personal and emotional rant because of his pass experience with the studio. He really got hurt when Ghibli asked him to do a film like the ones Miyazaki do
I've honestly only ever enjoyed Summer Wars, everything else Mamoru Hosoda has worked on just is not my jam.
I’m really glad joey has made this channel. I enjoy this content a lot more
If you want to crap on Miyazaki do it for something he actually is. Like he's kind of an asshole, not a great parent and a workaholic. Also dude needs to either retire or not. But this? This ain't it cheif.. This just comes off as super petty.
Maybe Hosada hates how men are treated in some Miyazaki movies. The male side characters are the ones that are incompetent, but the one that’s opposite the female aren’t. I don’t think he gets that.
ok
We are being blessed by more uploads. I pray to god they keep coming :)
It's so hard to find out about this channel, I just seen some clips of these videos and thought yeah maybe he streamed a bit on Twitch or something but I am so glad that I found out about this channel.
The popular "The Rising of the Shield Hero" (2019) extolls the virtues of keeping women as slaves. WHAT? has the author even watched or read any of said title, I could be mistaken but doesn't Raphtalia want the crest, so she can remain with Naofumi? Also, Spoiler if you havent read ahead...
it gets broken because she becomes the Katana hero if Im not mistaken.
This interview is weird on so many levels considering Hosoda literally just directed Belle.
They both need watch there own Anime.
.
And come up with some empathy for each other. Belle is beyond beautiful.
Is this from the stream when earthquake came in japan ??
The way I read it, it doesn't help that Honoda's controversial statements were taken by the article writer who then put a lot of their own input (particularly the one on The Castle of Cagliostro).
I am pretty sure I remember earing or reading something in university class about Miyazaki female characters being "moe" for otaku at the time. Today's definition does not really matter as we are talking about 1980s. With all the respect I have for Joeu, I think that more academic reading into Miyazaki and moe might give a bit more reason to the article.
Otherwise, yeah, agree with Joey.
5:42 Is that anime "Eiken"? I swear my friend showed me that ridiculous show back in like middle school.
Yeah, the writer of that article clearly either hasn't seen Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid (the only one of the two series mentioned that I know and can speak on) or has only seen the US dub which actually pushed the narrative that A) there would be no yuri in S1 and thus have to figure out how to explain that later, and B) Western views, including that pedophilia is somehow A-OK in Japan by taking out the reprimands that Lucoa gets for being so sexual around and towards Shouta.
I wonder how Joey (or Mudan) cutted out the earthquake part of the recording, could've been a blooper but for those who know, it happened as he was talking about the article.
About the standing ovation. That's just a thing they do at Cannes. They push the standing ovation length so much just to get news coverage. The more buzz about a film before the wide release the more eyes are on it. And it for sure helps marketing when you can say this film got a standing ovation of X minutes at Cannes Film Festival. That is not to say that there aren't people that just want to show appreciation for what they've watched, but it's hard to take seriously when every film gets 5+ minutes of standing ovation.
Also, it's really awkward when you actually see the clips of them. Just watch a clip of the cast of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood awakredly grinning away during their 7 mintues long standing ovation.
Even thou this is just your second and "not much effort" channel it became my favorite lol
So next time you visit a con, we agree to give you a 14-minute standing ovation, yes?
Really liking these types of sit down anime news esque vids Joey. Keep it Up!
What he said was very dumb , the same could be said of his female characters, the truth is that when I saw that I could not believe it, I still do not think it is real news
ok
@@rga7099 can you stop replying that to everyone
Right!? His own argument and logic could be thrown at him. Most of Hosoda’s work HAS FEMALE PROTAGONISTS! This beef he has with Miyazaki has fried his brain. lol
@@fundici ok
I like both of their films and yeah that was uncalled for. But now that you mention it, Nausicaa is a perfect character, too perfect...hmm. Also did the old man give any response?
I really think you should just talk about anime, manga, light novels you love.
It doesn't have to be an amazingly constructed video, it doesn't have to address a problem, it doesn't have to call people's attention to an unknown masterpiece. You will make those videos on your main channel anyway.
Just talking about the your current favourite work of art or whatever for a few minutes is also something that I'd happily watch. No matter how normie or general it may be.
I’m surprised a lot of people, even Joey, didn’t know about Mamoru Hosoda’s beaf with Hayao Miyazaki.
Basically, Mamoru Hosoda was hired to direct “Howl’s Moving Castle”, but after the script and storyboards are almost finished, Studio Ghibli fired him in replace of Hayao Miyazaki. There were a lot of saying as to why this happened, the most believable version is that Ghibli doesn’t think a nobody like Hosoda would sell, so they needed Miyazaki’s big name.
Hosoda has for a long time been seen as the underdog who got betrayed by Ghibli and Miyazaki, but overcomes it and made a successful career despite the odds.
So if you ask me what I think of his shit comments on Miyazaki, I’d say it’s just his usual unhealthy hatred towards him, nothing new here.
And no, this has nothing to do with WOKE.
The quote is so ...meta lmaoo because i would even say that it's the opposite for miyazaki : he is comfortable enough with his masculinity to recognize that women can do powerful things and be badass without getting his ego hurt