As a Lutheran myself, I went into this series not really sure what Presbyterians were all about, but you’ve really shed some light on the similarities and differences between the denominations, thank you!
As far as predestination, in my mind, the Lutheran view seems more logical and the Calvinist view more mysterious. It just makes sense to me that if someone isn't saved, it's because they made the choice to reject God, not that God rejected them. What doesn't make sense to me is God putting people in saved/unsaved categories and that's just how it is. Even going back to Cain and Abel, God clearly told Cain if he did what he was supposed to do, he'd be accepted, but Cain chose not to and had a bad attitude. That was on him, not God. God didn't tell him, It doesn't matter, because you were on my unsaved list anyway. He wanted Cain to do what was right and to basically stop acting foolish. The Lutheran view can be explained: stubbornness (hello, Cain), not understanding/misinterpreting God's Word, wasn't raised to believe, etc. All of those things and more can be changed and obviously many people come to Christ, despite circumstances or previous views. The Calvinist view feels more arbitrary and difficult to explain. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole predestination thing overall haha. I was raised Lutheran (LCMS), but oftentimes feel like I know next to nothing about it. I do definitely lean Lutheran when it comes to this topic though.
@@toolegittoquit_001 I would absolutely love to see somebody go to the court and plead not guilty based on the sovereignty of God. It’s basically saying oh hey I murdered 10 people, but I was just doing what God predestined me to do. It’s just ridiculous
As a new presby, I'd like to believe that God chose me, instead of I chose God, because He had implanted in my heart right from wrong, punished me for when I was wrong, and ground me down so that I could be open to Him and depend on Him. I believe that God tests and punishes humans, and also that He gives them a refuge in Himself and the church through His followers. His refuge is reciprocal; whomever lets Him in, He watches over. Just as Jesus died on the cross to save us from Him by Him because of Him, He still does this today. We, as humans whom will always, without God, choose evil over good, will never choose God without God's intervention. If God didn't teach us right from wrong, we'd be overcome with religions far worse than today's, because the religions of today steal from God's Word and have remnants of "good" in them. The saying "I chose God because I was humble, because I was raised right" just seems narcissistic in that you're depending on factors apart from God for your goodness and righteousness. Everything good is because of God, including us, and our belief in Him. Without God's hand, you might even go into the mindset that "you haven't chosen God because you're stupid/ignorant/hate God", which simply isn't good. God has allowed atrocities to happen, including the death of Jesus. God can also allow those who have rejected his tests, punishments, and outreach to remain in their sin.
Baptismal regeneration is a pretty major doctrine to disagree on. Obviously there’s a lot more topics on the table, but that is in my mind the significant dividing line between Presbyterians and the high church denominations like Lutheran and Anglican.
You explain the Lutheran view of Presbyterians quite well. I often appeal to Jeramiah when I say that reason is not to be trusted. That and how God's ways are higher than man's, and that he used foolishness to confound the wise. That is why I cannot be Reformed. Thank you for being charitable in this conversation.
I'm interested in putting together a MineCraft server for my church's youth group, where we would build historic churches, from Solomon's Temple to the Hagia Sophia to the great cathedrals of Europe. It would be great if I could show a couple of videos where you simply walked through your plans (or finished product) of the church you're building, for inspiration. Better still, if there were some way of sharing the plans for your church over and above just eyeballing it. Any chance of that?
Another thing on predestination, I don't think that remaining agnostic on an issue when you don't have all the information is the same as having a low view of reason. To me that seems like the most reasonable thing to do.
Instead of ‘reason’, what does the Bible have to say about it ? Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
@@toolegittoquit_001 God also gives a lot of conditions to things - you you do x, I will do y, but if you do y, I will do x. This either implies free will, or that God is a sadist, for giving people a "choice" that he rigged in advance.
8:06 don’t want to nitpick, but as far as I can tell, you’re not really grasping Lutheran predestination. A lot of words exist as false cognates between Lutheranism and Calvinism like Election, Two Kingdoms, Real Presence, and more. To understand this, know that we start at different places and end up with different results. For example, Lutheran predestination starts with God’s foreknowledge of our future choosing of Him. Thus the sequence of events (sequence here isn’t really temporal but in order of importance) is that we either will or will not have faith in Christ and salvation, and God already knows who will and will not choose Him. Out of this, those people are chosen as the elect. Whereas as I best understand it, for the Calvinist, God is actively choosing beforehand and either passing over or choosing against others (depending on your understanding). I’m not a theologian, and have no theology degree, but I also have just done a lot of self learning and crash courses, and this is the understanding I have after reading Lutheran resources and listening to Lutheran theologians.
Regarding predestination. You're saying that Calvinists accept the logical conclusion of God choosing who will be saved, but you don't seem to accept the logical conclusion that God creates people to damn them.
So I know this isn't what this video is about, and it's too late for Zoomer to notice, but if anyone could answer for me; what is the point of your position on the filolique? Considering it basically decides which side of Christianity you're on, I want to know. And even then, if God is eternal, how could any part of the trinity precede from another? If they're all the same being of God, how could one come from another?
Some denominations are brother and brother relationships for Catholics in orthodox it’s like a father with his ex-wife no offense but Presbyterians and Lutheran they gotta get along because believe in the same God or not getting along that’s a bad example for youth and unbelievers
As a Lutheran myself, I went into this series not really sure what Presbyterians were all about, but you’ve really shed some light on the similarities and differences between the denominations, thank you!
Please never stop making videos!
Thanks bro, really appreciate the environment on this new channel
I like how you quite fairly depict what we Lutherans believe, I think that's a really good skill. Nice video!
As far as predestination, in my mind, the Lutheran view seems more logical and the Calvinist view more mysterious.
It just makes sense to me that if someone isn't saved, it's because they made the choice to reject God, not that God rejected them.
What doesn't make sense to me is God putting people in saved/unsaved categories and that's just how it is.
Even going back to Cain and Abel, God clearly told Cain if he did what he was supposed to do, he'd be accepted, but Cain chose not to and had a bad attitude. That was on him, not God. God didn't tell him, It doesn't matter, because you were on my unsaved list anyway. He wanted Cain to do what was right and to basically stop acting foolish.
The Lutheran view can be explained: stubbornness (hello, Cain), not understanding/misinterpreting God's Word, wasn't raised to believe, etc. All of those things and more can be changed and obviously many people come to Christ, despite circumstances or previous views.
The Calvinist view feels more arbitrary and difficult to explain. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole predestination thing overall haha. I was raised Lutheran (LCMS), but oftentimes feel like I know next to nothing about it. I do definitely lean Lutheran when it comes to this topic though.
How is the Sovereignty of God mysterious ?
People insist upon clinging to the canard that they are in charge of their own destiny ….
@@toolegittoquit_001
I would absolutely love to see somebody go to the court and plead not guilty based on the sovereignty of God. It’s basically saying oh hey I murdered 10 people, but I was just doing what God predestined me to do. It’s just ridiculous
As a new presby, I'd like to believe that God chose me, instead of I chose God, because He had implanted in my heart right from wrong, punished me for when I was wrong, and ground me down so that I could be open to Him and depend on Him. I believe that God tests and punishes humans, and also that He gives them a refuge in Himself and the church through His followers. His refuge is reciprocal; whomever lets Him in, He watches over. Just as Jesus died on the cross to save us from Him by Him because of Him, He still does this today.
We, as humans whom will always, without God, choose evil over good, will never choose God without God's intervention. If God didn't teach us right from wrong, we'd be overcome with religions far worse than today's, because the religions of today steal from God's Word and have remnants of "good" in them. The saying "I chose God because I was humble, because I was raised right" just seems narcissistic in that you're depending on factors apart from God for your goodness and righteousness. Everything good is because of God, including us, and our belief in Him.
Without God's hand, you might even go into the mindset that "you haven't chosen God because you're stupid/ignorant/hate God", which simply isn't good. God has allowed atrocities to happen, including the death of Jesus. God can also allow those who have rejected his tests, punishments, and outreach to remain in their sin.
Baptismal regeneration is a pretty major doctrine to disagree on. Obviously there’s a lot more topics on the table, but that is in my mind the significant dividing line between Presbyterians and the high church denominations like Lutheran and Anglican.
As a Lutheran I would say this is pretty accurate.
I’ve been watching your videos. Quite cool and interesting!
yo, just to make sure. Is that the confederate flag. I hope its not
@@hamontequila1104 That isn't it a confederate flag, it has green in it and doesn't have any stars.
@@hamontequila1104 no
@@lem0nchino ok good. I just wanted to make sure, god bless you
You explain the Lutheran view of Presbyterians quite well. I often appeal to Jeramiah when I say that reason is not to be trusted. That and how God's ways are higher than man's, and that he used foolishness to confound the wise. That is why I cannot be Reformed. Thank you for being charitable in this conversation.
I'm interested in putting together a MineCraft server for my church's youth group, where we would build historic churches, from Solomon's Temple to the Hagia Sophia to the great cathedrals of Europe.
It would be great if I could show a couple of videos where you simply walked through your plans (or finished product) of the church you're building, for inspiration. Better still, if there were some way of sharing the plans for your church over and above just eyeballing it. Any chance of that?
Another thing on predestination, I don't think that remaining agnostic on an issue when you don't have all the information is the same as having a low view of reason. To me that seems like the most reasonable thing to do.
Instead of ‘reason’, what does the Bible have to say about it ?
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
@@toolegittoquit_001 God also gives a lot of conditions to things - you you do x, I will do y, but if you do y, I will do x. This either implies free will, or that God is a sadist, for giving people a "choice" that he rigged in advance.
man i wish you got more comments and likes thsn you did. May god make your cahnel grow
8:06 don’t want to nitpick, but as far as I can tell, you’re not really grasping Lutheran predestination. A lot of words exist as false cognates between Lutheranism and Calvinism like Election, Two Kingdoms, Real Presence, and more.
To understand this, know that we start at different places and end up with different results.
For example, Lutheran predestination starts with God’s foreknowledge of our future choosing of Him. Thus the sequence of events (sequence here isn’t really temporal but in order of importance) is that we either will or will not have faith in Christ and salvation, and God already knows who will and will not choose Him. Out of this, those people are chosen as the elect.
Whereas as I best understand it, for the Calvinist, God is actively choosing beforehand and either passing over or choosing against others (depending on your understanding).
I’m not a theologian, and have no theology degree, but I also have just done a lot of self learning and crash courses, and this is the understanding I have after reading Lutheran resources and listening to Lutheran theologians.
I as a Lutheran completely agree with your post
Regarding predestination. You're saying that Calvinists accept the logical conclusion of God choosing who will be saved, but you don't seem to accept the logical conclusion that God creates people to damn them.
That’s a ‘logical’ ‘conclusion’
What is the spiritual implication of your position ?
@@toolegittoquit_001 You might need to elaborate.
4:42 celebrate our differences?
So I know this isn't what this video is about, and it's too late for Zoomer to notice, but if anyone could answer for me; what is the point of your position on the filolique? Considering it basically decides which side of Christianity you're on, I want to know. And even then, if God is eternal, how could any part of the trinity precede from another? If they're all the same being of God, how could one come from another?
I’m gonna be the to not add to the conversation cuz I gotta ask…why are u playing in 2fps lol
He said it's his editing
Some denominations are brother and brother relationships for Catholics in orthodox it’s like a father with his ex-wife no offense but Presbyterians and Lutheran they gotta get along because believe in the same God or not getting along that’s a bad example for youth and unbelievers
where are my marsian christians!?
As a Catholic I must say Lutheranism is way better