To every comment out there saying "well what about Malena ??" or "but I'm pretty and men harass me more :(" , here is the thing : Misogyny does not spare beautiful women. That is the message of Elle's video. Women, conventionally beautiful or not, suffer from men dehumanising them, objectifying them, being violent towards them, cheating on them, etc. Beyoncé and Adriana Lima who are probably some of the most beautiful women in the world still got cheated on by their husbands, and there's a long list of female models and celebrities who were horrifically abused by their partners, etc. This is very important for all of us to recognize. Implying, however, that beautiful women have it "worse" in terms of misogyny is where everyone draws the line. It is an incredibly dangerous and factually incorrect idea that beautiful women get raped more, stalked more, bullied more. For every pretty woman who was bullied for her looks, how many women were bullied for being fat or unattractive ? For every pretty woman who was isolated by her peers for being threatening, how many women were isolated for being the "ugly girl", and made fun of while people turned their backs ? I am black and grew up in a racist white area, and for this reason alone I was deemed as unattractive growing up and isolated. Am I supposed to sit here and nod when a white blonde woman tells me she had it worse than me because she's just too beautiful ? Why am I not allowed to criticize this attitude without being called jealous and bitter ? The point being made is that beautiful women should use the fact they still experience misogyny as an experience to teach all women that the endless pursuit of beauty through makeup, deadly diets, plastic surgery, fillers and endless consumerism, does not necessarily lead to the happiness they think it does. You should use your experiences of harm to show women that beauty is not a magic wand that will fix every problem. But instead, the comments are filled with "pretty women get harassed *more* and stalked *more* and men lie to us about who they are which clearly never happens to you!!" even though there are no studies that show that is the truth. Men also use, dehumanise, abuse and obsess over "average" or conventionally unattractive women. Why don't you just take a look at the list of women who have gone missing or who have been murdered by a man for rejecting them ? You'll find that most of these women aren't supermodels. They're for the most part just average women, because misogyny targets EVERY woman, like you and me. You are allowed to fully express your grievances, but you AREN'T allowed to use these grievances to make it seem like we should all be "grateful" we were born ugly because at least we don't have to experience misogyny, or at least not as bad as you. This attitude is not just ignorant, but incredibly harmful because every woman should know that predators go out of their way to pick victims who will not easily be believed. Hence why they target children, but also yes, "unattractive" women, fat women, disabled women, etc... Because when these women come out and say they've been raped, men will repeat the good old "you're too ugly to be raped". You might argue that it's not what you're saying, but when you make it seem like rape is a crime that specifically targets beautiful women when it's not, you are reinforcing this idea that women are spared from male violence unless they are beautiful enough to get their attention. Not only is this making it harder for women to be believed when they are attacked, but it also makes sexual violence a "compliment" to beautiful women, hurting all of us. Instead of using your experiences to shed light on the fact that beauty doesn't divide women in lines between the ones who have it "good" under patriarchy and the ones who don't, you are using it to crush our experiences and act like they are not as threatening or dangerous as yours, and that is where the backlash is coming from. Now you can either watch Malena (a movie made by a man) for the 5488566 time and call us all jealous, ugly and bitter for refusing to bow down to the idea that pretty women are to patriarchy what Jesus on a cross was to Romans, or you can find out that there is a space where you can express how patriarchy has hurt you in a specific and unique way without implying that you've had it worse than everybody else.
🎉thank you! It is not struggle/oppression Olympics people....i feel this on so many levels as a dark skin girl of west african heritage who was MOCKED teased and sexual mistreated by people.who looked just like me and gaslit into thinking "for a darkskin girl you should be grateful the Jamacian boys are even interested"
This is an excellent comment. I would argue that just like unattractive, average, disabled women aren’t believed when they talk about their experiences, beautiful women are also not believed when they say that being beautiful also comes with a lot of costs. Even just saying pretty privilege implies that. Now, based on pure aesthetics, would a pretty person trade places with someone who’s average or ugly? Of course not, but there are many videos that talk about the misogyny that pretty women face, and there’s always a backlash. How can you explain the backlash against a pretty woman who says that she’s also experiences misogyny and a host of other problems due to her beauty? If she’s sincere about her experiences, it’s not a reach to consider that the backlash could be due to jealousy. I honestly think that there will never be a middle ground where women can agree on when it comes to experiencing misogyny as long as women are competing for men. It will always be a competition on who has it the worst, and who is more deserving/worthy because of whatever they had to endure.
@@ninisky2706 thank you thank you thank you. These so called pretty women in the comments section swearing in the loudest voice that they have it so bad is not backed up by any research anywhere ever because it’s not true in the slightest. I greatly appreciate this well thought out response. My opinion is people just want to be special. They can’t just be pretty but they have to swear it’s also so hard as though having it hard erases the long list of actually benefits that come from being seen as attractive. I also strongly believe that what we call pretty privilege, in many cases, is just white privilege. These women want so badly to be put upon. Perhaps it makes them feel strong to think they’ve had some type of disadvantage but they have no idea how bad it can be for a woman. No clue at all. They keep saying the most ignorant stuff trying to claim it’s so hard being pretty but we all know that it’s really not. I honestly think that the only real drawback of being seen as pretty or beautiful comes when a person becomes self absorbed and thinks they actually deserve or entitled to better or special treatment. For example all these woman making bald face false as statements about attractive people being more vulnerable. Hell no. That’s not true in any society on earth today. Not in comparison to the poor, the minority, the handicapped, the mentally infirm. It just screams look at me I’m actually a really deep person who has to deal with so much can you see it really is hard. When we ALL have to deal with that mess and many of us way more than they sever will and can’t get any help from anyone because we are seen as valueless.
it's such a brainwashed excuse. anyone is capable of better thinking processes & growth, but a lot of these men (who would otherwise be good people) subconsciously know they benefit from this system so they have these massive issues within areas of their thinking by having no critical thinking skills being applied to that bias that benefits them but harms others. so they can just sit around & say dumb stuff like that "visual creatures" thing that's ultimately an untrue excuse in reality. just because someone was raised to think a certain way does not mean they can just leave it unchallenged once they are informed it harms others. they have to be held responsible & to do better.
Yup, because ugly women have the same problems as pretty women just explained differently. And sometimes not even explained differently at all. Pretty: they only want me for my face and body. Ugly: they don't want me because I'm ugly. They only want to use my body. Pretty: they don't take me seriously Ugly: they still don't take me seriously Pretty: I tie my worth to my beauty Ugly: I tie my worth to my lack of beauty Smh lol
There are some differences. Below average women are seen as invisible, bullied by both men and women, and are assumed to be desperate and jealous. When they are harassed they "should feel lucky someone wanted to". Above average women are often seen as weak (too pretty to fight), picked on usually by women and casually harassed by men, and are assumed to be mean. If they get harassed it's "what did you expect?/ I would have done it too".
Except people are more likely to lie about who they are in order to ‘bag’ a pretty woman. Yes, it happens to all women. But being pretty puts an extra target on your back.
A guy I liked was talking to me and he was so sweet funny and bright. The same guy had given a girl he wasn’t attracted to such a horrible look of disgust and meanness that it actually scared me out of dating him. I overheard their convo it was chill but every word he sneered patronizingly at her. Super chilling. The way men treat women they are not interested in is wild
exactly and its so weird :'3 for me usually in my experience yea? I am considered pretty but at the same time my personality is described as crazy etc etc (rightfully so lol with everything ive done especially if u know me irl) so it really shows peoples different sides at once when i start wearing a costume or smth and throw empty dustbins on ppl.Like "shes pretty but shes kinda insane" which really rules out the type of people..people are??? you get what i mean here?? idk weird ahh analogy ok but i hope it helped thanks for readiiiiiiing
I had a work friend who I started dating once I quit my old job. Early on, he pulled the whole 9 yards including hand holding, intimate late night conversations, and getting me breakfast in bed. He overall was expressing deep regard for me as a person and wanting to take care of me. And I was all for it. Until I realized how his treatment of women was tied to how attractive he found them. He had a younger female friend who was jealous of anyone he dated. And he never set boundaries with her because he had previously led her on for sex and I guess didn’t want to deal with the consequences. I was really upset and ended things with him shortly after finding out.
Exactly, I've now put this as a vetting criteria on my list: How does he treat women he doesn't find attractive? Is he still treating them with respect or is he completely disregarding them and treating them like garbage?
The way they treat their wives, mothers of their kids and daughters is wild too. Also the way they treat women that they are attracted to but are afraid to approach. That's when things really get weird lol. It was great you got to witness that. Idk men have never really been that nice to me in general lol. A few here and they but they're generally rude lol. I have to watch my back too
You learn who you are dating by paying attention to how they treat people that they do not find date or. That is how they will treat you someday (after the honeymoon phase).
Someone said pretty women have to worry about being threatened if they reject a man. Average women have to worry about this too, they might even draw more ire because a lot of men feel that average women should be more grateful for a man's attention if they are not stunningly beautiful.
Yeah if you're overweight, have acne, have scars etc, a man with fragile ego will find a way to point it out in the meanest way possible if you reject him.
@@luminousmotion Of course all women have to worry about what you’re saying!! Being pretty simply puts at extra target on your back. You are more likely to experience men lying to obtain you because more are attempting to for bragging rights. That’s it. Being pretty is a net gain but there absolutely are downsides.
Nobody said being pretty didn't have downsides. That being said, some of these responses are giving "average girls are too ugly to understand" energy. "Average" girls can be harassed just like petty girls, but can average girls reap the benefits that pretty girls do? Pretty girls complain, but probably wouldn't trade places with plainer girls.
I was harassed, stalked, used even though i was bullied and called ugly all my life. I wish i was at least beautiful, because guess what? I had to prove myself at work too, nobody thought i was more competent because i was ugly, a lot of people thought i was stupid. 0 success in dating, always ignored. Whenever you try to talk about it, prerty women come out of the woodwork to say they have it worse. I'm sure there are real problems, but you bet u would love to be pretty just to avoid feeling like i was invisible just for 1 day
The issue is that the two groups have been pitted against eachother. Any time one talks about their issues it's either "they're too privileged to understand" vs "they're just jealous". Above average women are treated terribly, but so are below average women. But being seen isn't what you want. I had an "ugly duckling" happen to me later in highschool and early college, the looks I got and approaches from older men made me sick to my stomach and afraid. People feel entitled to touching you and making inappropriate remarks in public. I'm happiest being average.
@@uniquenewyork3325 the thing is, I was approached by older men too. I was sa'd by someone much older than me in a work setting. These things happen to ugly women too. I never got a compliment and just got abuse and indifference. I'm sorry you experienced the things you described and it''s worthy to speak out against them. The thing is, nobody talks about the abuse ugly women suffer. Look at incels, shouting online the women have it so good in life, attention, privilege... this is NOT true for all women, but for a lot of society ugly women are not even considered, because for a lot of men the main value a woman has is her appearance and guess what, if you are ugly you are worth exactly 0.
@@silviacarli5863Nailed it. at least, most of pretty women are seen as worthy. Ugly women are so cursed by others that we are not even seen. Most people don't even belive we had gone through abuse, because they don't see us as a person wortht of any kinds of attention. Yet, they swear beatiful women have it worse because "my friend is jealous of me 🥺" like whatttt.
@@silviacarli5863 I was also harassed before, I didn't mean to imply only pretty women are harassed so I apologize if that's how it came across. A difference I noticed is that it's usually much more casual and public when done to above average women since they "should expect it", while it was done more discreetly to below average women and "they should feel lucky".
Literally been on both sides of pretty privilege at various times in my life and sometimes in the same day. It's just misogyny. Also, you're so on point. Yoyo-ing my weight made me really cynical about people. It made me not want to date guys unless they've seen me fat and at my worst because I didn't trust they actually liked me. It made me hate how horribly people treat those they deem unattractive. They're actually treated like subhumans.
Amen. I lost over 1/3 of my body weight and it was like I entered a new world. Now I observe how men I’m interested in treat those they find unattractive because I know that was me at one point.
girl same, i yoyo a lot and weight loss changes how i look drastically. I can go from having someone pump my gas for free to literally being told by my own brother that he didn’t want to be seen with me in public because i was ugly and an embarrassment to be seen with. Seeing the extreme difference makes me so cynical with every man. I had one guy literally trip me in front of everyone in school and act like he didn’t do it and just walk away and then years later when i “glowed up” he was in my dms. He didn’t remember me at all, and he was being all nice and respectful trying to flirt and in that moment i was so appalled. Literally if you are unattractive to most men they treat you as if you don’t exist. As if you are unworthy of any respect. seeing men act like that will literally screw how you view them all :/.
A lot of the “downsides” of pretty privilege is not exclusive to pretty women alone. Being harassed,stalked,SA etc are all things that women regardless of their looks face, these are symptoms of patriarchy/misogyny not pretty privilege. However, to deny that there aren’t any unique issues that come with being pretty would be delusional of me🤷🏾♀️ Now if I had to choose to wake up being an ugly/average woman or a pretty woman, I’m deffo picking being a pretty woman.
@@shibangidas6929 that’s very sad and she didn’t deserve to experience those things but again those are things that women of all attractiveness levels go through, the reasons are just different. Your friend who is pretty is being undermined because all people think that she’s good for is being pretty. An ugly/avergae woman is going to be undermined because she isn’t pretty enough and simply because she is a woman. The common denominator is being a woman and facing misogyny and patriarchy.
@@DaughterofDiogenes not being able to make any male friends because they pretend to like your personality, then eventually just admitting that they keep you around because your hot and they hope they can pipe one day. Having women that don’t even know you be rude to you at work on your first day. Having people start rumors about who you’re sleeping with at EVERY job you go to just for fun. Being labeled as the “slutty friend” despite being celibate for years. A lot of times people assume the worst of you just because of your looks.
@@DaughterofDiogenes see the only thing wrong with being pretty or even rich is that their privilege makes them out of touch sometimes and they go make vids saying 'why being pretty is not all that' or 'rich ppl have problems too🥺' Personally i feel because that these ppl subconsciously think life shd be better for them because of their status and are mad when they realise that all humans have problems no matter who they are😭
@@DaughterofDiogenes Well maybe not just pretty, but perfect Hollywood bombshell gorgeous certainly has dark sides. Someone famous mostly for their looks being picked apart more as they age. The volume and acceptability of harassment much higher, Megan Fox's interviews always being this come to mind. Certain kind of social loneliness as men are being uncontrollable horndogs seeing her as objectified eye candy and women with severe pickmeism level pushing her away for evoking certain jealousy, winning manmade beauty pageant we call society, being able to "steal their man" away in theory. They don't want to be "the ugly friend" of hers. It's certainly messy, but ultimately it is a privilege opening doors and raking cash, that everyone craves more or less, hence super beauties don't tend to uglify themselves for more than a couple of roles if they want to be taken more seriously and beyond constant lust and envy in the air.
Having been both beautiful and ugly in my life (by conventional standards), men's behavior has been consistently self-serving. However, they were nicer to my face when I was pretty. When I rejected them, they tended to take it a little better since they knew I was 'out of their league'. Now, they're just rude to my face, which is actually both hurtful and refreshing. The trash takes itself out, but wow, I live in a landfill.
FR a men wanted to pass and he was a bit mad that I was blocking his path but he changed his behavior as soon as he saw my face lmao. I used to be ugly so I already experienced that, like getting insulted for this type of sht but now it's all different. When I was ugly being shy was "weird" now that I'm pretty being shy is "cute" LIKE BRUUUUH, i'm so mad at this.
I found the opposite to be true, but I was beautiful facially before, just fat. Losing weight made me realize that everyone hates beautiful and introverted women. Also made me realize just how much fatness makes people not see facial beauty.😂
I was a tomboy. In my teens i got the societal message that tomboys, "masculine" women were low status, so i started dressing and acting hyper feminine. Being somewhat pretty helped. I got flooded with compliments, people envied me. I joined a mean girl clique. But internally i was lonely and deeply miserable. This was because i was not true to myself. I left the clique, started dressing more tomboyish and made friends who actually liked me and vice versa. No constant attention from men but more overall happiness. Beauty helps in interviews and brings oppurtunities. But its a depreciating asset. Invest in your health and skills.
Lean into it. Stats that I have seen recently show that women that dressed more masculine were seen as more professional and thus, more likely to get a job. You are a woman but in certain ways you can use and weaponize your perceived masculinity in your favor. You can never utilize it the way a man can, so use discernment to determine which forms of masculine traits and presentation would best work and when. Of course, other factors like race, class, personality and perceived sexual orientation plays a role in this as well. So tailor it with those things in mind. You can do it if you want to!
@@pariscarla822 As a gender-fluid female, I do *exactly* this. I present as masculine to navigate the world with safety and confidence, but I can become a feminine witch when i'm alone or around close friends. Traditional gender roles may be f-ed for women, but once you learn the rules and boundaries of gender, you can learn how to BREAK those rules and adopt whichever modes benefit your lifestyle.
@@pariscarla822it actually depends on the environment you’re working in. Appearing masculine does help in a male dominated space or a mixed space wuth a dominating masc energy. However i found in a female dominated space where the dominating energy was much more feminine, it benefits you to look and act more feminine.
It's wild how experiences can be so different, for me once I hit middle school it was more popular to not be like other girls. Feminine traits were bad, you'd be liked more if you could do things like the guys. Looking good was still important as a girl but hyperfeminine was bad, more boyish styles were good and no pink. You could get away with dressing feminine if you could prove you could match the boys in more things or even outperform them. In or after highschool school tho I've seen a lot of girls my age lean into hyperfeminity because it was so discouraged before.
I think people are failing to realize that being pretty gives you infinitely more benefits than you would have looking any other way. If you want to say there are downsides you have to at least acknowledge that compared to not having pretty privilege, it’s way easier. I always see men use it as a way to divide women, that’s why pretty privilege isn’t really discussed when referring to men. Stop dividing ourselves❤
I don’t think the privilege is denied, but most ppl conflate this privilege with a perfect life and see these people as objects or project their own insecurities and expectations onto them.
I don’t understand how you say it’s only used to divide us while also saying that being pretty makes things easier despite any downsides. Isn’t that a contradiction or am I missing something?
For the longest time I’ve wondered why my family has been so successful for generations despite so many hardships and I’ve realized it’s because of how we look. For some reason we were blessed with insane genetics and most of us are tall, lean, and have angular faces. My dad was picked out of thousands in a war torn country to receive asylum in the West because of how he looks. It’s actually insane how pretty privilege can impact lineages.
Wow! But I’m not surprised. I remember after Hamas taking this gorgeous half French half Israeli young woman on October 7. And I absolutely knew if anyone was going to make it out of that hostage situation alive. It was going to be her. There was no way they were going to hurt her. She is probably one of those beautiful women they have ever seen in their lives. And I think as a cat, it would be really hard tohurt someone. If you don’t know, I’m talking about her. She is gorgeous.
@@HulaMaskgirl they let her go cause she was half French and they didn’t want France to join Israel in fighting them. That was a strategic move on their part not pretty privilege.
I think it's the fact that being especially hot or especially feminine presenting gets you more attention, so you might just feel like hot women are more at disadvantage, when really it's still just sexism
💯💯 "Women are threatened and hate on you." Like people do not try to humble non pretty women, etc. You mean women are pitted against each other using looks for social capital?
It's strange/not self aware to me that people describe pretty privileges downsides yet they go on to describe misogyny that "undesirable" women experience (often more intensely & invisibly bc no one believes them & they're victimized specifically bc they're deemed less important & valuable in society). When this is reduced down to its core: desirability politics, access to various levels of humanity, rights, compassion, opportunities & therefore power then the debate ends. It's not about how you "feel" it's about access & power
Yes! Like, a pretty woman will always get more male attention, so I think she is more likely to receive attention and good treatment from good men, but also more likely to be harassed and stalked by bad men! (Sorry for my english 😅)
@@MarcustheWu idk I'm average and I wasn't attempted to be humbled by any gender... Let's not act like the podcast bros and their behavior we see online is as common in real life....
Yes and there’s this heartbreaker video of the late Donald Sutherland crying about how when he was young, he asked his mother if he was ugly and his mother told him he looked “interesting” or something like that and he explained how that comment stayed with him for the rest of his life.
Yes because men have other dimensions to be valued, like money, strength and charisma. The great leaders have never been questioned regarding their looks, in comparison to the female leaders where a constant question is her looks. But it's true, pretty privilege is in both sexes
Well there is but I'm afraid it's much more impactful for women. Men are valued for a whole range of things and have fewer limitations based on how they look. For instance, in acting and in politics, unattractive women get nowhere. Unattractive men can succeed. It's something I try hard to over ride because I'm sure the unattractive among us have had to work harder to develop themselves and are probably better at many things.
When you said you’re ready for men to be pretty again, I literally yelled YES. I’m so done going out on dates with low effort men who don’t care about dressing up and looking decent for me. No more Jean shorts and scruffy T-shirt, no no we are done with that childish shit. IM NOT putting in two hours of work on myself to stand next to a man who look like he crawled out from under his house.
Male attention is the least important aspect of pretty privilege lol. I'd say getting more opportunities and earning more money are way more appealing than that.
@@_tripalongthat only applies to jobs in the service industry. She mentions male preferences for pretty women in many episodes, now we're supposed to believe that only male criminals and sex pests don't seek out pretty women to victimize? It's ridiculous
As a considerably attractive woman i noticed i get harassed ( catcalled , approached by mean spirited men etc) only when im dressed down or when i look physically vulnerable ( being ill for example)when i dress well and put make up on most men stare and drop their eyes on the floor when i look back at them .I made this as a social experiment. For a week i used my model like walk wearing heels ,hair professionally done , feminine classy clothes ,make up and went out . Only few men looked without dropping their stare to the floor. Those men who were able to actually keep their stare hold the door for me going in and out of places etc. I was getting the most hatefull lookes by other women Then i dressed with athletic clothes or simple jeans... more casual with only make up on and natural hairstyle and a more relaxed look i didnt get stared the same way .I was being looked at but without the intensity, women were friendly and men would chat with me but very friendly .Then i would dress with simple trousers and a t-shirt or a long dreas no makeup at all and very simple flat shoes .Now this look was the one that put me in the most uncomfortable situations . I got catcalled and aggressively approached by the most predatory creepy men. Women gave my mixed looks some looked at me with arrogance some were extremely friendly. Men ignored me completely. The only attention i got were from creepy older men and weirdos . Misogynistic men want a woman to be powerless regardless if she is pretty or not .The more unkempt you look peope assume you are not confident and you are somehow vulnerable. Predators are attracted to vulnerability. I think its not a pretty privilege its the well dressed privilege. When what you wear gives the impression that you are someone important people tend to treat you accordingly no matter how your face or body looks like . Appearance matters more than beauty .If you are considered unattractive but you are dressed like a million dollars you get pretty privilege too . If you are dressed down no matter how physically beautiful you are people will assume you are depressed poor or lack confidence those 3 situations make you vulnerable to predators and ignored by regular people who may have been friendly if you looked better. Its unfortunate how superficial humans are
That’s something I’ve also noticed at one of the shops I go to every month! Same workers and they give me different looks every time I go in a different attire
In HS, I went to school with this girl who was literally stunning, and day 1 no one talked to her including me because we all assumed that she was a b*tch. She ended up talking to us instead. She was hands down one of the nicest people, but she got it all the time... everyone just assuming that she was mean.
This happened to my best friend, she's socially anxious but people took it as her being stuck up and even told her "I avoided you because I thought you were mean"
@@uniquenewyork3325 I'm in spectrum of autism but my face don't tell that and people think I'm attractive. With this combo they always think I'm arrogant. When I'm actually just anxious.
This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder what pretty privilege really is. It sounds like people are being isolated because of it without even knowing why.
This reminds me of the movie Malena. She was an object of lust for all the town's men and of hatred for its women, especially since her husband left for war. At the end, she was accepted because she looked 'older, less beautiful, less threatening'. But I'm still disgusted by what they did to her.
@@Wee_Catalyst I think the intention was not to make their character suffer, but to show the world that there are actually downsides to being (not only pretty, but) extremely beautiful, especially if they don't lower themselves just to seem less threatening, which unfortunately the character does at the end of the movie.
@@Wee_Catalyst how did you come to that conclusion?? Were you expecting a cultural shift in that movie where everyone else suddenly became feminists etc. A happy ending? That would be a fantasy. The movie showed reality. This is how society is. Men, women both can be horrible and Jealous.
@@happilyevernever4289 Just goes to show how bad at guessing games you are, maybe play some other games that match your critical thinking skills, like Tic Tac Toe or something like that RUclips is clearly too advanced for you
Right. They have a lot of passes. They don't have to prove their "inner beauty" because society doesn't want them to. Women have to prove so hard if she happens to be gorgeous. She has to prove that her outer beauty is not only a shell to both women and men. She has to prove that she is not "a gold digger" even though he has no gold to dig.
I know one. He's lonely. Struggles to make real guy friends, thinking he's a "Chad", so they're super jealous and women want to just sleep with him, because they'd be too insecure to date him. There are pros and cons to every situation.
To add to the Nixon JFK debate, people who watched the debate on television (where they could SEE the candidates) though JFK won, while those who listened to it in the radio (so they could only know the points) had a more balanced view on the outcome. Being presentable is more important than being right in politics.
I don't know that's an example of pretty privilege. Remember: this was in 1960, not everyone owned a television. Television ownership was not evenly distributed across demographics and radio-listeners were more likely to be older and rural (i.e. disposed to agreeing with Nixon anyway). In my experience most people believe the person they already agreed with in a debate is the one who "won" it unless they really messed it up. But if it's a middling-to-good performance by both sides then your guy "won".
I feel like I got more attention from (old) men when I had severe acne. Now that my acne has cleared up I don’t get approached as often. Idk if they thought that since I had acne I’d be insecure enough to feel good about some old guy complimenting me or something. Has this happened to anyone else? Fr felt like I was harrassed more whenever I felt like I was at my ugliest. Makes me hate men even more. Edit: that tik tok at the beginning has me so heated.
@@goblinbabe yes. I’ve gone through 3 different times in my life where I was an “ugly duckling” - age 13 when I also had acne, age 19-20 in college - gained weight from the “freshman 15” (which is 15 lbs that everybody gains when they start studying that much) and also stayed indoors too much and got low D, you look different and worse with low D3 levels, and then later on when I had a breakdown after 10 years of NYC living adrenaline like crazy. Each of these times I’ve attracted a worse “crowd” of men that think “they now have a chance”. At various times in my life I’ve had my entire phone messages filled up by men that I had zero interest in who had gotten my # through different work and friendship situations. And I had at least 10 phone numbers blocked, I had to pay for Robokiller to get them to stop calling. I still have several phone numbers in my phone of men so that If they pop up I will know it’s that guy and not answer it. I don’t want them in my phone list but I have to keep the # in there. And I don’t answer any blocked numbers because they try to call from a blocked number so they can still reach me. I’ve also had them show up next to my driveway when I lived in a house when I’ve blocked them and try to apologize for whatever made me block them (one guy was drunk in his house by himself trying to talk to me on the phone so I blocked him, no alkies please - he then showed up at my house. I drove away and thankfully he never showed up again). It’s really, really dangerous to be attractive to men.
I am a brazilian girl living in France so I'm definitely not the average type of beauty, I am more of an exotic type of beauty that unfortunately many guys fantasize about. The average looking girls HATED me (although most of them I never talked to) and some people openly mocked my looks (mainly because of my breasts and butt being too big) and I was made to be the butt of the joke way too often because of my looks. I remember being an adolescent looking in the mirror and HATING my body for being too vulgar, too sexually appealing. Maybe it also has to do with racism and stuff, but I don't know I haven't talked to many people about it.
Yes, I’m French and it’s racism and sexism. In France the ideal beauty is a woman very young, thin ( with South Korea it’s the country with the most pressure on women’s weight) and naive . I have a big butt too and I have the same experience than you sis ❤. Try to spend time with people from cultural backgrounds which love and women with shapes ( maghrebin, Arab , African descendants, Portugese, Spanish…). Hopefully , there are a lot of diversity in France.
I can relate so much as a Sudanese girl. Especially in Western societies where blonde white women are supposed to be the pinnacle of beauty. When another woman comes in and threatens that hierarchy they feel like your beauty is the threat. Being an exotic beauty in my opinion is one of the few instances where being pretty often works against you.
It's probably not racism It's because you're pretty, they feel threatened by your beauty that's why. Some channels talk about it you can search for exoticals channel, they talk about their experience being conventionally beautiful.
Am not downplaying anyone’s mental struggle but every women I know struggles with all these things every women benefited by pretty privilege. Because we DO live in a patriarchal society. AM NOT DOWNPLAYING ANYONES MENTAL HEALTH but yeah
I worked at a very well-known financial company. Without fail, the conventionally attractive and thin women were promoted regardless of their performance. In fact, it took MONTHS for a gorgeous, but utterly bonkers woman on my team (read: severe mental illness, paranoia, zero work actually done) to be let go. Multiple people had to report her behavior. I don’t want to work in banking ever again after the decade I spent in the industry.
When people complain about challenges being “unattractive” that’s valid. When people complain about abuse they endure for being “pretty”, that’s constantly invalidated because when you’re pretty you deserve every single bit of pain inflicted on you.
This isn't at all. All women are at risk, and pretty women are more likely to be believed and sympathized with when they come forward, according to studies. As someone who has been beautiful, and ugly: people treat more beautiful people better.
@@almibry the fact that you assume I haven't been targeted for sexual harm based on my opinion is... telling to say the least. If anything, I feel my "average" appearance put a target on my back, especially as a child, because I was less likely to be believed.
as an average looking woman, i will say that when i wear makeup, people are nicer to me and it is easier to make friends. most pretty women i know are popular and have friends, unless they have some sort of personality issue. it is easier for them bc of the halo effect. personally i am introverted and have RBF. this causes people to feel threatened by me and try to put me down before getting to know me. it has nothing to do with being pretty, seeing as im not lol. i also have been harassed by men and sexualized, as i am a woman and it doesnt take being pretty do experience this
hmmm i think the topic is leering a lot onto the men stuffs like SA by them or..like...ummmm...whats it called... but what about the whole other thing abt girls not supporting other girls because of it?? cause yea i mean...for example ok im actually supposed to be pretty or something but at the same time i dont wear makeup because frankly im uninterested in looks lol but girls would be like...idk...? i dont get it guys :'3 someone help me here lol
This just unlocked a memory for me. I found my old report cards while going through paperwork at my parents’ house and was shocked to see my appearance commented on repeatedly. It is beyond inappropriate to even talk about this, let alone include it in my freaking report cards. Crazy!
As someone who was considered ugly once and now when am considered pretty. Idc what people say, being pretty will only get people to be either too nice to you (or intimidated at times) or being extremely rude to you for no real reason. When I was considered ugly (I had cancer and no one knew so they just assumed I look like that) it was very easy for me to impress people with my personality whereas now its just about the looks. But is being ugly better than being pretty? Definitely a no! Its like there are 90 good things about being pretty with 10 bad things and vice versa when you are ugly. (This is just from my experience)
One of my closest friends is a drop dead gorgeous woman and she always talks about how hard it is to make female friends. Women just automatically struggle with hanging with her.
maybe bc it sucks being the ugly friend of a pretty girl, since she will get all the attention and perks from everyone while you are invisible at best. naturally we get envious.
Haha I can't. It's hard for almost everyone in adult life to make friends. It doesn't cancel out pretty privilege perks just because there's one imperfect aspect of your life. These things aren't exclusive to having good looks, maybe she just hasn't found the right group for her.
I've noticed that whenever I wear more make-up and fancier / sexier clothes, I get more attention, both positive AND negative! Men in particular seem more comfortable initiating contact and even mocking me / being cruel to me. So I feel like making yourself more attractive (as a woman) is synonymous with attracting more attention, sexist attention included.
I don't think misogyny spares pretty women at all. I've been told I'm pretty, yet I've had the worst things said to me online. That tiktok video where the woman said women are never taken seriously. That is so true. I'm a very opinionated person and so often whenever I post an opinion about anything, there will be some guy replying to me in the comments trying to make me feel dumb for having said opinion. I also hardly ever get approached by men and I thought I was ugly for the longest time. Even when guys have shown interest in me, they seemed superficial and showed more interest in my body rather than my mind or personality. I have lots of different hobbies and interests I want to share, but it always seems like they don't care to truly get to know me. And, that makes me feel even worse and hopeless because I'm an introvert and have a hard time approaching men.
@@namisami6761that's some bs. there are normal guys out there. you're just shooting for the top 5% of goodlooking guys who can allow themselves such behaviour.
I feel like the whole “downsides of pretty privilege” wasn’t denying that this is all due to misogyny. If anything I feel like it comes from a place of some pretty women feeling like their experiences with misogyny are considered less oppressive or less awful because they have pretty privilege, when in reality pretty privilege can lead you to receive more misogyny in very specific situations (not all the time or even most of the time) even if it can make life easier at other times. Like I was bullied in high school by a lot of my teachers because of how I dressed. I didn’t wear anything that out of the ordinary or revealing. Just plaid skirts/y2k preppy girl kind of vibes. But that wasn’t super popular yet (again) in the mainstream, plaid skirts were still associated with “schoolgirl corn” at the time. The bullying and slut shaming came from a place of misogyny, that’s for sure, however I also know for a fact that if I’d dressed differently and put less effort into looking good my teachers would not have bullied me. My teachers always came for my looks, completely unwarranted, because they knew they couldn’t come for my grades. I had a teacher try and lowball me once because she didn’t like me, so instead of giving her the satisfaction of complaining I made sure all my following work was too good to deny the grade I deserved. Teachers made my last 2 years of high school miserable because they thought I dressed like a slut when in reality I just really liked Cluless. Something about how I looked in high school triggered adult women to hate me. I can’t think of a single woman teacher I had in the last 2 years of high school that didn’t contribute to the bullying. Now that I dress to focus more on comfort and I wear my glasses all the time, I don’t get the same treatment from adult women. They respect me way more. And it’s not an age thing, because I still look like I’m in high school even though I’m a few years into my twenties. Most people assume I’m a teenager still. The only thing that has changed is my style. I’ll be the first to admit this all comes from a place of misogyny. Even in high school I could tell my teachers were mean to me because they struggled with internalized misogyny. It was obvious in the ways they were mean to me. Things like “oh you think you’re so cute in your little outfit don’t you” in a nasty tone as I left class. Most of the time pretty privilege is a privilege, people treat me better and smile at me more when I look good. I see that my life as a woman is generally better because I’m conventionally attractive. But I also saw how the way I looked made every single woman teacher in my life hate me because of internalized misogyny. There can definitely be downsides to being conventionally attractive in our society, but the negatives still pale in comparison to the benefits.
This is exactly it. On one hand they say that pretty privilege doesn’t get you oppressed in unique ways yet they also say that not being attractive gets you oppressed differently.
I have been yelled at publicly at work and accused of having pretty privilege even though I wear always the same basic clothes, sneakers and the comfiest outfit, I hate to have attention on me at work and I also can not be bothered to put a better outfit. And the girl who attacked me is 10 years younger than me…
i never understood why middle aged teachers were whole ass beefing with kids, because same girl, and i'm not even pretty. why teachers, especially female teachers, are so horrible to their female students in particular, should be a whole ass video, is it because they're jealous, is it because they're not getting loved by their husbands? what is it that makes them come to school and BULLY students like kids themselves?!
Totally agree with you. the people commenting how its nothing special to being pretty dont see that its not a competition. its what people experiece and its valid. and them saying its not proves that pretty people cant share feelings or experineces without it being downplayed.
Agree with you 💯 The amount of times I was told “I wouldn’t have any problems if I looked like you” when I was sharing my mental health struggles (or something completely unrelated to looks) is ridiculous Also had this problem with teachers in the uni. Was getting weird “blonde” jokes from teachers. I started to believe I was stupid even though my test grades were good
I would absolutely rather be pretty in this world, but we shouldn’t dismiss or diminish the struggles. Imagine feeling bad about something and the vast majority of people are BOO HOOing in your face. Sounds like a big drawback to me
@@MCE851 it is a drawback, however it's the only one. It is very out of touch to assume all the features of misogyny apply to you only due to looks, such as assumed incompetence, medical gaslighting, SH/SA/R, and so on. The dismissal, I will admit as a pretty individual, of my issues on the basis of my looks is hurtful, however, I can only imagine being considered the "DUFF" and not know people see you that way as well as suffer misogyny. I didn't know I was pretty until I was 18 and starting seriously dating. But being dismissed is a femme issue, nothing to do with one's allignment with beauty standards.
@gitchygitchyyaya it's not the only drawback.People are more willing to manipulate you and dismiss you because they already have an image they are projecting onto you. Yes, all women deal with harassment, but isn't it different when it's multiple guys in a day most days that you're out?....It's the same action,but with slightly different motives,and you always have to be vigilant of the conversations being drawn up with you,because most times you get into a whole conversation with someone just to find out they want something from you.This is coming from someone who has been attractive and unattractive
@@Rosabear26 I so agree with this. You have a target on your back almost all the time, it’s exhausting. You can’t trust intentions. I realized long ago that if I was not attractive, at least I would know they like me for me and are less likely to use me a status symbol or an ego bandaid
Okay, at 65 I can weigh in on my experience with "pretty privilege" when I was young. The main disadvantage was being seen as a "trophy" instead of a person. As early as age 14/15, a boy I barely knew decided to boost his image by claiming he had slept with me. He chose me because my looks gave him bragging rights among the other boys. I was a virgin and I wouldn't have given him time of day. It was infuriating. Even the guy I had my first long-term relationship with, was attracted and determined to keep me because of looks. I don't think he ever cared who I was on the inside. During my mid-20s, after I broke up with my long-term boyfriend and was single, I had more than one experience where I was stalked. I had situations where I was preyed upon. I always looked young for my age, so I can't say it wouldn't have still happened in my 30s, but by then I was with the man I married. The best example of how looks can lead a woman into treacherous situations is to watch the movie "Tess of The D'Urbervilles" to see a young woman in an earlier century victimized for her beauty by a rich man. There's a line in the movie where some other women say, "It's always the pretty ones." and it made me cry! (It's on RUclips) Yes, this can happy to less pretty women too, but it's more likely to come at you in spades if you are young and pretty, especially if you are powerless like Tess.
Thank you so much. You put into words something I struggle to express and I'm in my 30s. It's really disheartening to be told something is a privilege when that very thing is the reason people don't see your humanity. What does it take to get treated like a human being in this life?
totally feel with you. if talked about these feelings people downplay it-oh come on it cant be that bad all women experience that but does not still make it better. does it? when i read comments on this video i see why some pretty women might feel alone. Also i guess it comes down to personality. some people love attention, and crave it, no matter how awful it is some hate it and dread it. my sister told me she wishes she would be the one come in a room and have all the mens attention and this sounds like a horror scenario to me. thats that we need to aknowledge that we all dont feel the same about certain situations.
I realized that being pretty is not simply facial features and clothes. Being slim has a pretty effect; your posture is better and clothes look better on you. I started my running journey this week, hoping I meet my goal by the end of the year. Thanks to all the supportive girlies out here. This community has done wonders for my outlook on life. I’m in my “Divine Feminine Receiving Energy”😊❤
I think it’s disingenuous to deny that women often are jealous of other women. Some women can be absolutely terrible to the women they are jealous of. I’m all for woman community, but ignoring this won’t help anyone… I’ve seen women hating on the pretty girl just because she’s pretty. I know this isn’t exclusive of pretty privilege, but c’mon, a lot of women are insecure and will be mean to other women to feel "superior", and I’m not hating, I understand it’s patriarchy putting women against each other, to fight for male attention, but women who are complicit and won’t recognize it are a hindrance to the collective. I had to unpack a lot and treat my envious attachments, it was genuinely ruining my life.
35 min and no mention of envy. And the hellish viciousness of envious people. We do not live in Hollywood, were beauty is rewarded. The statistic about hiring managers favoring appearance is about being put together, not beautiful. Men do not hire beautiful women because they are afraid of being accused of wanting affairs, and women do not hire more beautiful women out of jealousy. Even when hired, many women in the workplace sabotage what they see as competition, and men make a point to humble the pretty one. Yes, strange men might open the door at the store for you, but is of no consolation when you do not have the money to buy bread for the day. That is the consequence of beauty in the real world. 35 min without once calling out envy and nothing in the comments about envy, that is 0 progress on the road to a better future. .
What about women being mean to you because you're pretty? When I became obese and started dressing down women started treating me kindly, as a 'non - threat'. When I look good, women tend to hate on me. Same stuff with men..when I looked 'hot' men treated me like meat... When I wasnt stereotype attractive, men actually listened when I spoke. Humans judge by appearance. Period.
@@TashaRansomArt Exactly. I don’t understand why it’s considered such a privilege to be attractive to a pack of pit bulls (male and female) who will attack without provocation. The invisibility of low to mid has been the best of all worlds in my experience.
absolutely, but i think it depends more on what kind of prejudices the people around us have than to how good or bad we look some women may be mean to other women because they are too pretty, or because they are too ugly and some men may listen to ugly women because they think they have more brain, while other men may not listen because they think the ugly woman has no worth i think we should all start judging people by their actions instead of their looks
That just proves the point the whole point of the video. There is nothing special about the negative experiences “pretty” women have, its just the society treating ALL women badly. Yeah some women are going to be mean to you cause you’re “pretty” but there are still TONS of women and men who are going to treat you poorly cause being unattractive automatically makes you less as a woman in. And we all know how much society hates fat people, please be real.
The downsides of being pretty aren’t the things that a lot of ppl are listing. They list SA, general misogyny etc. (which happens to all women) but it is extremely hard for pretty women to make friends. If you look closely, popular people aren’t necessarily the prettiest people. Where I’m from, most of the popular girls are rich and average in looks. I had this online friend, and she literally loved me and when we met irl she barely uttered two words to me, was cold and dismissive and cropped me out of photos that the friend group took. She never messaged me again. This usually happens due to them thinking I’m competing with them for some guy. I spend most days alone (or with family), bc it’s just not easy to make friends. I think it’s important to address these things bc as a society that puts so much on aesthetics, people DO treat other ppl different bc of it and I’m tired of people dismissing it. I have yearned for friendship all my life and I am 24 and still haven’t found a close friend yet. And before people say it may be a personality problem, lemme just ask you: have you seen the type of a-holes that have the biggest and most loyal friend groups?
You are right. Bullies always have friends, and the bullied kid is a loner/has a small group of friends. Is not about your personality, but when you are really attractive, people just dont like you. That happens to super attractive men too, the hottest guy in my town told me about how hard is to make friends and how many people (men and women) give him hate/jealousy stares 🤷🏼♀️
No girl I fully get you. I myself had been envied my whole life and I don't care how I'll be perceived anymore if I say these things because it's true and it's exhausting trying to just voice your experience and constantly dismissed just because. I know more than 2 people who are extremely gorgeous that people think they'd be more popular than any other celebrities if they were one. And they are exactly in the same situation. Two of which killed themselves. Now see if I get a reply dismissing their suicide, it'll just prove my point anyway.
Btw, I'd love to be your friend🥺 I'm a lover of solitude and being a loner but I'd love a good, secure company, especially if they share the same experience with me ❤
At the end of the day, I think pretty privilege discourse is more divisive than helpful. All women experience some favorability depending on certain circumstances. Some butch lesbians are treated more favorably in certain career paths than gender conforming women. While in other careers, not conforming to gender expectations like wearing make up will penalize you. Either way, we are all subjected to sex discrimination and male violence.
I see women here dividing themselves into "pretty women" and "ugly women" and I think that's the problem. We're all women first, facing different types and levels of misogyny based on our social statuses and life situations. Being pretty, just like being rich is a different status. Yes, it's a privilege, but not an end-all to life's problems. Different people face different problems, but comparing to one-up other people isn't the solution. Now you may tell your rich friend that he/she has it better because they're rich, and that's true to a certain extent. They have more oppourtunities that middle class/poor people don't. But it doesn't mean they have 0 life problems. Nor should they tell you things like, "being poor is better, you're so lucky". Of course it's not. The same applies to being pretty. And both are subjective, so we should stop identifying ourselves with a quality, that is subject to change
No. I cut my hair, changed my style, and ultimately un-feminined myself. I experienced substantial benefits, and safety. I also experienced negatives, like being perceived as a competitor in male work spaces, however when I enter those same spaces femininly I am babied. Agreed, it is just misogyny, however the experience is real.
That's not about prettiness, that's about femininity/masculinity and misogyny. The same happens for women who aren't pretty who change their gender presentation.
@@alanamontero4743 do you think butch women dont experience misogyny? misogyny is rooted in the control of the female body. Feminity is an oppressive tool of control, not an inherent sense of self that anyone who is feminine is oppressed for. Like genuinely wtf are you talking about.
I used to be angry at women who know they're pretty, but then realised that the only people I should be angry with are those put some women above others for looks. Women who are considered beautiful by the society can use the advantages that society gives them, and the only ones to blame are the society
... So you think this doesnt happend to us uggos? Cuz it does... I was one of those none attractive kids. There are millions of them. Her getting into the enviornment was due to her being pretty sure. But the pretator behavior had little to do wit that, we know of less pretty kids in Hollywood who experience the same thing
@@michalovesanime No one said it doesn't happen to less attractive folks, stop putting words in my chat. It just happens quicker and more often with the pretty privileged folks.
Once I tried unaliving myself. When I was at the hospital I heard the nurses and doctors talk about me and one nurse said "I don't understand why such a pretty a girl would do that". I know she didn't mean bad but being pretty does not mean my life can't be shitty Karen.
@@Aye_pepitoo1789 THIS. I had a severe medical issue go undiagnosed for years because I would show up to the doctor and they’d tell me “Well, you look great, so…” 🙄. This comment section has failed the vibe check so bad.
People here are going on aboyt how they cannot maje any friends because women are jealous of them....have I been pretty this whole time? Are people jealous?
right??? i have had difficulty making friends and have been a loner throughout my entire life, have i missed somewhere in the fine print that i'm pretty?? quite the opposite, i'm not good looking. pretty people can have issues with making friends for so many different reasons, just like non-pretty people. it's not that special.
@@zippy3253 i think it's also the issue of oppression olympics and people in general not taking women's, including pretty women's, issues seriously, so they feel the need to "talk about the downsides".
Maybe you are pretty and people are jealous of you. Have you never actually considered that? Based upon your comment, you seem to have a pretty dismissive personality and that doesn't make for a good friend. However, if it wasn't your personality that put people off, maybe it genuinely was your beauty. People with low self-esteem tend to treat others poorly and the toxic cycle begins. Maybe be the change that you would have liked to have seen.
I didn't have friends in high school becuas3 I was a) autistic b) racism. And the misogyny i faced was coupled with that because i was objectified but shamed for being a defective object. But sure I think being pretty is the reason and not multipliers of oppression.
You guys are missing a huge point. Pretty women are despised by many (insecure) women, too. If she makes even a slight mistake or made them feel threatened, people try to ruin her reputation and life. Since regardless of beauty, women are subjected to violence from toxic men,but for beautiful women, not only that, they are subjected to more pain from women too who are insecure . And if the beautiful woman is insecure herself and doesn't realize her worth, she will be toyed like a doll from every insecure man and woman, many wont even help her truly, there is no place for her to run. There are a lot of insecure people in this world, which are a product of patriarchy. I believe beautiful women suffer more they are toyed to very core , saw one in real life, was so scared for her, she couldn't take it anymore, tried to destroy her body.
i agree but that is the only thing unique to those with pretty privilege. Envy and jealousy from others. And i can argue that’s not even a downside because if people are jealous of you that means they want what you have, that means you are doing something right. So people want to try to humble you to bring you down to their level.
THISSSS OH MY GOD THANKYOU SO MUCH. many people are failing to realize how just because they see being envied as inclusive, it's much harder when there are more than a few people who feel that way in the same environment, let alone in others. This is why it's so hard to believe because even if others have spoken about it, they are constantly dismissed.
I also know more than 2 people who are extremely beautiful (men and women) yet they are hated for no reason other than their genetics. The good thing is some of them actually grew from it and learnt to run the world regardless.
I spent my entire life as a tomboy. I am skinny and have an ok-pretty face, but as a tomboy, I did not experience much of what women would accuse men of. I never got unwanted attention/comments, never once got approached on the streets, rarely felt objectified and I felt like I was taken seriously in professional settings. I did get rape nonetheless and experienced some forms of misogyny (mostly subtle and indirect). I was not having ''ugly treatment'' either (I don't know how to say this, but like, I was not being ignored by men or being looked/talked down on). But I recently started dressing very feminine ; flowery colorful dresses, wavy hair, nails done, dainty jewelry, etc. And it was night and day. I unlocked a whole new world. I can turn on and off ''pretty privilege'' just by how I dress. But here's the catch. From all this time being feminine and ''pretty'', I have to say that I did not experience a single positive change or privilege of any sort (compared to before), BUT, I have never been so objectified, stared at, approached in the streets (trust me, it's NEVER the kind of men you wish would approach you), commented on, mansplained and been assumed as unintelligent in my entire life. Now, every day something happens that makes me feel utterly uncomfortable. But I can just switch to my old style and I become invisible again (as in, left alone). I do agree with the message that you are never protected from misogyny as a woman but my experience was way too drastic for me to actually agree that there are no downsides to pretty privilege (and I'm still waiting for those added privileges...).
It's definitely ok to criticize women that use pretty privilege to step all over other women and put them down. Your right that they still aren't elevated over men.
@@ИмяФамилия-ь4ю4яthey specified women who use their pretty privilege to step over other women, which defines does happen. Not everyone is jealous of a pretty woman just because they’re criticising them
Pretty privilege often only gets you treated either like an infant or a sex worker by men. They may buy stuff for you, but it's usually because they want access to you in some way. They may help you, but only because they consider you too weak to handle it yourself. And of course there are genuinely nice guys who do these things with no bias, but you can tell the difference.
I’ve never had a bad experience with pretty/beautiful women tbh. Most of the put downs I’ve experienced were from average or even ugly folks themselves, out of their own insecurities.
I am pretty, and eyes - downsides of “pretty privilege” is just plane old sexism.. but different kind, or the one you as an attractive one can experience more than non. As pretty my entire life i was perceived as “mean girl” and b*ch no matter what. Other girls who looked regular and were dressed casual always got more positive attention (were spoken to, asked to join a group, approached) when i was met with glares and behind back whisper. My teachers HATED me cause i was pretty. Guys rarely approaching me cause they are intimidated. If you are attractive and have a nice car or a chanel bag everyone automatically think it’s from a sugar daddy. Because i’m pretty i have no friends. Is there benefits - yes. Can regular looking girl experience all above - yes. I’m just saying pretty girls experience those more. And i know there is something that regular girls experience more.
I saw a comment that highlights the fact that pretty woman experiences bullying from other (insecure) women or man. Glad that you highlight the true experience of being pretty, not just having it “easier”
@@kairi3895 hahaha I hope you realize the whole guys being intimidated reason for not approaching you is just a lie to make you feel better. No truly beautiful woman won’t have guys approaching her. It’s probably the way you carry yourself.
I'd also love to add this: Beautiful Men (aka Metrosexuals/Ikemen) are often ostracized and deemed as gay, with men* demonizing them to women that they're bad choices because they're gay, cuz these men* are threatened by their beauty and ability to attract women. These Beautiful men also tend to have better hygiene, empathy towards women, and overall care towards people, though ofc narcissists can be these archetypes too.
There’s a well-known study showing that women care just as much about physical attractiveness as men do, we’re just less likely to admit it because of how we’re socialized to be sweet and accepting. We still care about looks, and why shouldn’t we if that’s important to us?
Downsides: 1. Being lusted over and immediately being F’d Zoned because they assume you won’t be faithful. 2. If you happen to be single among other married women, they will exclude you as you are perceived as a threat. Are you a young, beautiful single mom? Most married women will not befriend you. 3. Constant negging and people always trying to humble you. Dealing with an unfair situation? Best believe that people will get off on trying to teach you lesson that you can’t always have your way. 4. You get dehumanized. It is only once they see you suffering and go through something such as an illness or other tragedy, that people will see your humanity. Prior to that ppl assume you live an unbothered and perfect life.
@@nlyfaeMisogyny happens to every woman. Things like race, class and age factor into how this misogyny manifests. Is it so unimaginable that perceived attractiveness is also a factor?
Why do you guys fight so hard to claim that your suffering is “worse”? Do you know any “unattractive” women whose experiences you can compare to yours to measure how bad you actually have it?
@@zippy3253 First, the science says it’s worse. It acknowledges the benefits Elle mentioned, but also the downsides, which she didn’t. And by your logic, if we can’t “prove” it’s worse, then you can’t prove it’s not. What’s more, there are comments from people who have been on both sides telling you that the abuse is actually worse on the “privileged” side, but you all don’t want to acknowledge it because then you’d have to admit that looking like us wouldn’t solve your problems, and that -yes- we do have problems and experience abuses that you don’t. You’d basically have to admit that there’s “average” privilege, too. If we’re defining privilege as the absence of some negative outcome.
“If men are such visual creatures, then why do they look like that?” 🤣🤣🤣 Point. Blank. Period. Once, while at a nightclub, a male friend of a friend was several tequila shots in and started pointing out the most hideous men in the club and asking me if I would give them a chance if they approached me. I of course was like, No! But then trying to tease him back, I was like.. Would you give a chance to… -and I literally could not find an ugly woman at the club. Just a random Friday night. No special event or specific crowd. That was one of the first times I started realizing we really are so beautiful in all our different versions and aesthetics. Meanwhile men.. well, no comment.
this was a good episode it really made me realize how regardless of your privilege women are always gonna be subjected to misogyny. It’s not like you can out run being a women. But I also wanted tot say that the Bible doesn’t say or give the impression that men are perfect. I mean the whole Bible is talking about how everyone including men are not perfect, that’s why Jesus needed to come.
Super insightful! The research you had to put into this is amazing, you’re the real GOAT here. Maybe we can agree that all women experience these downsides but being pretty and attracting more unwanted attention from both the male and female gaze exponentially increases the “downsides of being a woman” which results in creating a new category in the disadvantages of having pretty privileges. I grew up average looking always with a childlike face but not remarkable or a striking beauty. I went about my day with peace and as I grew up I actually got to nurture my inner world and develop a great personality which serves me well until today. As an adult I had access to more so I went through a glow up. And it’s not going from ugly to beautiful it’s going from average to I guess pretty. Plus you add the great/cute personality that I had already nurtured from before + other things like good vibe & energy & unique life story/path = the result is a very magnetic aura. Never in my life I have felt that… Nowadays I cannot walk on the street without people staring, I enter a room and people get quite, I have a chat with a man and their spouse come chasing after them, many people just start conversations out of the blue (this is something I do like) but my social battery gets drained much easily, some women feel threatened while others want to be friends when we really have nothing in common… so you constantly have to filter through the people you want access to you to ensure their reasons align with yours. And surprisingly it’s true you get less approached by single men especially if like me you have the deadly mix of beauty with brain, so that beauty privilege thing is very isolating. Good thing I love my own company and being in circles welcoming of my energy but it was definitely an eye opener and a shock. Plus people who have been insanely pretty all their life when they see you they want to befriend you as in likes attracts likes, but the difference between when you had a glow up and having been born pretty, is that often you develop social skills and personality and character when often their entire personality is being pretty so I don’t fit either with this crowd. I can’t deal with empty shells and I often find them to be mean or dismissive or lacking compassion, I’m a kind person and having to adopt that snobbish detached attitude so “peasants” don’t talk to you for too long when they approach you it’s not me. But I also don’t fit with “average looking” people for whom being in the presence of someone good looking it’s like they are in trance/hypnotized or something. You are objectified so you always have to overshare about your own flaws and insecurities so they can humanize you a bit more and create an actual and real connection. Plus add to the mix people who are consciously or not jealous and envious and the ones who are set on a mission to “humble you” whenever they get a chance… When you enter a room or meet new people, It’s like waking a minefield, you never know what you’re going to get. The list goes on… as much as I understand that it is what the female experience is about, I do think that gets blown out of proportion when you enter the realm of pretty women. Have your own little social experiment. Start where you at and slowly improve yourself, change a few things here and there and that glow up will show you exactly what I mean. P.s- Clarifying that beauty can take different forms and conventional beauty standards are based on the society and culture one evolves in. It took me a while to understand that I was even perceived as being pretty as I had my glow up and my inner state stayed the same as before. I felt I liked my new look but I was not thinking OMG I’m so fine I’m a showstopper until I saw people’s reactions towards me change. I was then forced to evolve and adapt to meet the social expectations of how a beautiful woman should behave in public and when interacting with others… For many women including me, beauty is manufactured, you get extensions for your hair, you wax, do your makeup, you dress up, you adjust the tone of your voice, your mannerisms…etc. All of that is constructed so it can be gained by all really. My beauty is very much of an aura, an intense energy with unique features that captivate people. I chose not to go back to how I look before my glow up because I love my ethereal look. However, on some days I do dress down a bit or wrap my hair in a scarf to attract less stares and attention. But when your beauty type is more aura based than everything else, even when you pull all these strings my experience is that somehow you still stand out a little. So, does being pretty come with privileges, it does! I get offer gifts, small acts of kindness or courtesy given to me quite often. Does it come with disadvantages, from my experience, it does too. All of of which can be leverage and definitely provides you with access to more social capital. So It’s up to the person to see if they can deal with both sides of the same coin and leverage that or revert back to being average and there’s nothing wrong with that too.
Today I woman I was training at work told me how much she appreciated the positive energy I gave and that it made her positive as well I love that so so so much
i've seen one of those street interviews where they interview what appears to be mostly club-going women and there was this small group, which the interviewer was rating. one of them he rated 10/10 then he rated the others like 4 to 6. it seems like he was expecting them to fight amongst themselves but instead the ones he rated low was all cheering and very supportive of the one he rated 10 and they were all saying, "yes! she's a 10!" he tried to provoke the others by asking the 10, "why are you hanging out with these bunch? is it so you can stand out?" but she was very sweet saying, "no, we're all 10s actually. we're cool not to be 10s in your eyes, because we've been 10 in plenty of others." they knew that he wanted to make them fight for his content or appear affronted and defensive so they were amicable with their response and they were all very sweet with each other. in the end, the interviewer just looked like a defeated creep, but it was good of him to still upload it. there are some men who just like to see women fight and use it in arguments that we're "emotional" and "shallow" for spending too much time and money on trying to look pretty or being hateful to other girls just out of envy; or sometimes, some men just like to see women fight because, to some of them, it's funny-like how they find icicles being smashed on the ground funny. some of them are just toddlers wearing a cheap man-suit.
We just have to be careful tho, because white women (and lighter skin women) get way more sympathy, care, coverage in the media when something bad /good happens to dark skin black women. On top of having way more priviliege with it comes to punishment for bad behaviors.
I'm gonna be real I do think there is a disadvantage when it comes to the frequency of sexual harrassment(especially by strangers) I genuinely hope this doesn't come across as offensive or dismissive, this absolutely doesn't mean in any way shape or form that women in general don't have to deal with this sort of extreme misoginy all the time or that it's something that only affects conventionally attractive women. This being said, since I lost 40 kg and turned into what's considered by a significant amount of people "conventionally attractive", I was harrassed by strangers(touching, grabing, cat calling and cussing even) way more often than before. Like it's on another level, I was still harrassed before, sure, but not at this level, it's still shocking to me and I'm currently still processing everything. Idk, maybe I'm biased because it all started happening recently, maybe I'm just unlucky and it's a coincidence, but yeah, in my experience, men treated me worse, like it's normal to just touch me if they want to...🙃
@@MCE851 fuck, that is truly horrific, I'm so sorry you went through something like that and those people(if you can even call them that) are beyond disgusting😖 tysm for sharing your experience🫂
Naw,guys this video is mad dismissive😭.What about when you get hit on multiple times throughout the day? I get women have common experiences but not all women get cat called at the same frequency.i don't get what this video is trying to prove
@@Rosabear26This video is about dismissing pretty women's struggle by saying they aren't anything special and everyone out there is facing same and most probably worse. So stop whining about it
Uhh as someone who has a major glow up I definitely get sexually assaulted/ harassed way more now than when I was not as conventionally attractive. I also noticed men definitely do not listen to me as much or respect my opinions as much as before. I do think a lot of these issues are women-specific, but there are legit downsides to being "pretty" in the eyes of society.
I was 300 lbs and lost 140 lbs. I felt significantly less safe and more creeped out in a lot more situations in public and at work. (even from family male members🤢) For ✨ME PERSONALLY✨ I have not enjoyed it at all, I much prefer the invisibility being bigger afforded me. ✨PERSONALLY✨but I think it also depends on your personality type, I hate attention in general but especially from males. ✨PERSONALLY✨
Nah, I've been bullied by pretty girls and in my mind is "girl you are so pretty"why are you doing this to me?" I think some of them they are just sadistic people that enjoys chaos and make people suffer
@@dalila3398 they do it bc they don't know they're pretty so they see something in you and take it as a threat so they bully you. Or they know they're pretty and still bully you out of spite for being less attractive as them, like Mean Girls movie
Very thorough breakdown of the concept of pretty privilege and tbh I wasn't expecting this to go so deep into it and have some many examples as it did. Your breakdowns are just amazing and you're really doing your due diligence in your videos! Love your videos!
Other women may experience it sometimes but it's not on the same scale. There is actually research on this stuff happening to attractive people at a higher rate. People considered conventionally attracted are more commonly take advantage of and targets for manipulative people who want to gain something from them. Even sociopaths look for conventionally attractive partners because it's like trophy to them. I think it's good actually that we finally get to speak about this instead of constantly being told life is on easy mode for us. We also have to prove ourselves harder and aren't taken very seriously.
@@sSomeawesomeneSs Start with Savolainen, Brauer, and Ellonen 2020 and then go from there. We are not lying about this. To start with, highly attractive people are five times more likely to experience SA.
Pretty privilege is high concentrate misogyny from both genders. Women in collectives feel like they can rag on you and humble you. Having a lot of male eyes on you gets messy too if you dont watch yourself.
@@ButteredToastandChocolateMilk me too which has lead to severe social anxiety and isolating myself in the house most days. Men have been cruel to me and women not much better!
@@shanicrystal8671I feel you sis. Wish I could say more about it but I feel this space is no longer for me to do so. Not sure that I agree with Elle on this one.
@@shanicrystal8671 there’s a RUclips creator whom touches on this subject that I resonate with way more than this video. I think for now I’m gonna exit this channel. It’s not serving me anymore and more often than not seems to attract a lot of negative people. If you want that other channel let me know!❤️
@@ButteredToastandChocolateMilk I understand you. Heavy on the average pretty, because they think that absolutely gorgeous people don't have downsides.
Normally I’m 100% here for the message but I can’t get behind this one. Until you have a massive glow up and go from being unattractive to, highly sought out, you really just would not get it. The things pretty women go through aren’t just the downsides of being a woman. I would know because when I was overweight and unattractive I didn’t deal with the things I deal with now. The difference has been like night and day. You’re dealing with those downsides of womanhood BECAUSE you are pretty. Because 90% of the things women with pretty privilege complain about did not apply to me on this massive of a scale when I was unattractive. I didn’t have anxiety about going into grocery stores and pumping my own gas before my blow up. Because I might get bothered once or twice a month. Now it’s EVERY time I go out. Women that think it’s the same thing other women go through need to learn to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. Being the beauty standard is only fun when you enjoy the attention. When you’re introverted and have bad social anxiety it’s a new type of hell.
I totally agree with you about the social anxiety and introversion. I think being beautiful is better for extraverted women who like to talk to people and have more attention on them.
this video really helped me understand. thank you. i have always felt othered but there are plenty of reasons for that, we mostly experience the same misogyny at different levels and degrees, and i feel a bit silly for not totally getting that. ive just wanted to be seen for who i was inside for so long, i was blinded to things like opportunites, minor interactions, and support being part of the halo effect. i was homeless for a long time and in that period i lost my looks for a while. looking back, i see where the pretty privilege was lost. that is one thing to remember - pretty privilege is temporary, misogyny might be forever. we should have eachothers backs over dividing.
Girl you helped me so much. I used to be so insecure about myself. I’m 16 and have never dated before. Men would always come up to me and would never follow up. Me personally I look great but the experiences I faced made me think other wise and social media affected me negatively. You made me learn how to love myself, stop comparing myself to others women and be fine with being alone. My time will come and me being in my senior year is better. I was always alone in highschool and you got me through so tysm girlie !
It bothers me when ppl believe being “stalked, harassed, and/or assaulted” and other internal issues based on their looks is just a struggle only pretty women have and that women who aren’t as attractive understand it. Or even when they are is awareness that “less attractive” women also relate to the struggle of mistreatment, they are people who think that them not being as pretty automatically makes it valid for them to get mistreated cause “it’s obviously because they are ugly”. It’s surprising how much people actually have either of these beliefs. It’s not always about looks.
I have to disagree with you on this one, Elle. As a former model who has experienced massive fluctuations in weight, I can absolutely assure you that this isn’t all explained away by run of the mill misogyny. The more beautiful I am perceived to be, the more abuse I experience because of it; from men and women alike. Do you think the predators are more likely to go for the most or least attractive prey? Do you think women are more threatened by weak or fierce competition? To deny that we experience the effects of jealousy and misogyny at much higher levels than more unattractive people is honestly tantamount to gaslighting. I could write a book on all of the horrible things I’ve experienced that have been direct manifestations of the way that I look, and most “normal” looking women’s experiences wouldn’t come close. This “common abuse” that you speak of multiplies exponentially the more beautiful you are, and that needs to be acknowledged. If anything, videos like this only contribute to our continued othering and isolation by other women because it makes it seem like we’re delusional, blind, or bragging instead of seeking help and understanding from, and solidarity with, other women - something we’re consistently denied.
You wouldn't even be able to work as a model at all if you were not beautiful. Beauty attracts attention, which is why you were hired. The attention can be good or bad, so pretty people HAVE to have stronger filters when interacting with people. Also, people prey on "ugly" people because they know that if a victim speaks up, nobody will believe them.
Many predators go after people they see as easy prey. Also unattractive people could probably write 3 whole books. Of course individual expirence is different from general expirences
I have to disagree. Predators will go after anyone they believe to be easier tagerts. It doesn't matter if you're super attractive or not. There are countless storeis of below average woman getting attacked for their looks. What you and many other women had experienced is just the product of living in a patriarchal society. You can't claim that women who aren't as pretty as you haven't had experiences just as bad as yours. You're blatantly disregarding others' women's experiences. You can also share your personal experiences without trying to one up other women. This isn't the oppression olympics.
@@unicorntears6179 Reading comprehension really is at an all time low these days. I did not say, nor has anyone else, that unattractive women don’t have these experiences. What we’re saying is that we have these experiences on steroids. Come talk to me when you can’t even make it through a shopping trip without being stalked and followed to your car.
It’s kinda crazy that we are really having this topic discussed at all. I don’t even think I’m all that, and yet I receive far far more smechual harassment than most other women. It’s been commented on by anyone that has even witnessed my life, it’s not even just my interpretation. I get no benefits, just the downsides, and those ARE worse than not having this “privilege”. I’ve been told by several that they envy the SA I’ve been through bc at least that means I’m pretty. Like it or not, being “pretty” is more of a curse for SOME of us, that shouldn’t be up for debate. Not all of us have the other legs up that unlocks that privilege. It’s not just “regular” sexism. Everyone experiences different facets of it.
@@sunfeatherX3 people who are denying this are just one of the insecure/hadn't seen much. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Just know that just because the people invalidating the downsides have a chance to vocally dismiss it, doesn't mean that it's true. And the reply above me👆 very insensitive.
As a woman with pretty privilege the only downside I face is being secretly or openly hated by other women who can't help themselves with jealousy. Even with my girlfriends I often feel like I'm not allowed to complain or just vent about my problems, no matter what these problems are about. Instead of support I receive a passive aggressive reaction that makes me feel even worse. It also works vise versa when I want to be supportive but get that 'you'll never understand' thing. It's frustrating.
Sounds like you both have terrible friends and don’t know how to set appropriate boundaries around the people you bring into your life and label “friends” Those aren’t friends those are NPCs-raise your standards and you won’t have to complain to the internet that your friendships suck
I got u sis 🫂 The friends , The buddies, The bffsvi grew up with all suddenly started cropping me out of our group pictures. Not inviting me in their birthdays and hang out when i used to be the one to plan all this back in the days. At some point they kinda stopped talking with me but they continued to slut shame me behind my back and gossiping about my family situation And all this because i kinda had a glow up. It felt horrible to hear those stories about my family which i once shared with my friends. I felt so betrayed and wronged. Now days though I'm healed i never say anything too personal to any of my friends or talk about my grievances. And i feel ahole for that because they share their stories. I'm only one not sharing much. I think I'm not totally healed. I should do more. But still i feel a bit more understood by seeing your comment. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels the need not to talk much about my problems. Though my current friends aren't at all like that but i still fear they would react like your friends
There are very real downsides to pretty privilege. To deny their existence is invalidating and leans toward misogynistic ideals within itself. Off the top of my head, here are a few. Yes it's a bit long but this is an actual conversation that needs to be had. 1. Female friends downplay self-esteem issues that you have because they view you as more attractive than themselves. Thus self-esteem issues don't exist for you and you're "just fishing for compliments." 2. Female friends expect you to devote the majority of your time to assisting them in physical self improvement. This also applies to financial discrepancies. 3. You are often the butt of jokes because it is assumed that you get complimented so much that it doesn't bother you. 4. Women greatly hesitate to befriend you because they see you as a threat to their relationship. This can be the case if you didn't even know they had a boyfriend or have never seen their boyfriend. 5. Other women join in rumors about you or you are slut shamed by other heterosexual women. This is often baseless. I personally have been slut shamed by girls my age and grown women since the age of 9 just based upon how my body and face look. I had my first kiss at the age of 20. All of these are very real experiences that a lot of women have. We can say that they learned it from misogyny but that also takes away accountability that women should have. Not every man is misogynistic, not every father has raised their daughter to be that way. Men run society, but men don't control how women treat other women. Men can only run a competition if women choose to participate in the competition. This viewpoint is a bit unsettling from someone who has made videos in the past being so supportive of women and their experiences. I also think we would be remiss to notice that Manifestelle, while very beautiful by American standards and in my personal opinion, would not be a 10/10 in her culture standards. So I think that someone who is a knockout by Asian standards should give this viewpoint that is opposing the feelings and experiences of women en masse.
@@chiyukuwill most experiences can be bald into a small handful of umbrellas. However, I specifically focused on the negativity coming from other women. These are just a few real life experiences that I have lived and I have heard every conventionally attractive woman I come into contact with experience.
as a pretty woman, in my experience making and keeping friends with other women is hard due to jealousy - there is a lot of fakeness, backstabbing, reputation-smearing, general cruelty, and being held to impossible standards i.e. making just one mistake is not acceptable. i too have been jealous and not particularly wanted to be mates w my boy's ex love interest BECAUSE she was so pretty - but i was fine w being mates w another who was, imo, less attractive. there are definitely downsides to being pretty, and i dont like how these struggles get dismissed under the guise of "shut up because ur pretty". however, it is undeniable that unattractive people have less opportunities and are treated poorly due to their looks. so given the choice i would definitely choose to be pretty over ugly. you can be unhappy with the downsides of being pretty, and should be allowed to talk about them and be taken seriously. but it is, as in all cases, important to be aware of where you do indeed have certain privileges. pretty people do NOT have it worse than unattractive people. infact, i would say people who aren't pretty definitely have it 'worse' in most cases. but why is it always a competition? because it bloody shouldn't be.
The dark side is what happened to me yesterday. I went to see an apt but the guy who was renting it out started looking at me with that glazed over expression on his face. Then he insisted on giving me a creepy "hug" and feeling my boobs with his chest. He didn't want me to leave when the appointment was over and kept on making conversation about things that didn't really matter for the apt. Now I can't rent the place because he lives on the premises and is both the landlord and super. So now I can't have a cheap apartment that is available, I have to pay the "pink tax" so I can keep men away from me. The apartment is also in the middle of town and is visible from the road, that's bad. I have to have an apt that is hidden so I don't attract random men to stare at me when I step outside my door and come hang around hoping to see me in the area. It's not ok.
Thiiis!! Girl been there, naively went along with it and had the most harassing experience of my life from an old landlord AND his son who was the maintenance guy. (They both also lived in other units on the premises) Literally would make any excuse to work on or in my apartment. The passing snarky and inappropriate comments. The turning in my stomach to have to come home to a place where the son and his broski would hover around The real disgusting kicker and my que to really get tf out is when my underwear started going missing- literally my worn, in the dirty clothes, underwear… I was so trusting and unaware at 20
That's horrible and terrifying. I don't think it's necessarily about one being better or easier than the other, it's about how you want to use things to your advantage. Being average or below-average looking makes you invisible which can be detrimental emotionally and financially but invisibility can also mean safety. Being above average makes you more of a Target which decreases your safety but increases your financial and social credibility. How pretty could be used to your advantage though would be that statistically people who are considered more attractive earn more money, so you being pretty increases your ability to pay and be approved for whatever apartment you want. Also being pretty increases your ability to be with a man of means or get a "sponsor" who would be more willing to pay your bills for you putting even more money in your pocket.
@@JO-fk5ho yeah I'm trying to figure out if they don't realize this. Even if you're a below average woman, you're gonna be harassed at some point. Probably a good number of times, really. As a woman who's been on the other side growing up, pretty privilege makes everything better(not great, but better). Weirdly, I notice the biggest difference with the way women treat me than men -- they assume I'm more competent at work just becuase my skin is now clear and I dress better🤔 On some level, all of us know being 'pretty' is the better deal. Otherwise, the people who whine about the ""downsides"" could just make sure they always look as ugly as possible. There's a very small percentage of humans who are so gorgeous that they can't do anything about it. It is the definition of humble brag, I swear😂😂😂
And I don't think that ugly privilege is a thing either, because it's literally just the respect that women should be getting. It's just the respect that people show the average man.
Omg I’m so sad with humanity- I was the Eurocentric standard of beauty my whole life, blonde, blue eyes, thin but curves etc (which tbh is gross that this is the main standard by I digress). But for a year from 2022-2023 I became obese due to multiple factors. The way I was treated by women but especially men was outrageously awful. Nobody held the door for me, no one seemed interested in holding a conversation, even had a guy leave a conversation mid through. Women not really wanting to be friends. I felt invisible because no one would look at me, which in a way I liked. Not that bigger women don’t get harassed, I was barely creeped on by men. Then all of a sudden when I lost the first 25lbs, women would come up to me even to just ask for directions, I had a dude follow me around in stores (ew), and people smiled and looked at me again. It’s even different not as I lost another 25lbs and 5lbs from technically being of healthy weight. I get that I wasn’t as attractive but being treated that way was gross. Now I’m so pessimistic and believe many kind favors are just because of how I look, not from good will :(
It's usually perceived that being very obese means one doesn't care about one's health issue and one eats craps, which could be false. However, when people get sick, they lose a lot of weight too. Just human nature. I was called ugly when I was a teenager. The HS dude which I hated, told me he didn't know I was growing up "this pretty". This was a sarcasm to me, but according to him I supposed to take it as a compliment, lol. I never like that dude at all. Just love yourself and stay healthy. Their behaviors speak more for them and not you.
The thing you guys don’t realise is the downsides of pretty privilege and mistreatment associated with it comes from women THEMSELVES towards pretty women it comes in the form of ( jealousy, smear campaigns, exclusion..etc)
@@KingDeadMan Tried to do the rewrite the brain thing / forcing the confidence and it only led to a friend criticize my appearance so hard that I'm still crushed. It just doesn't work, you're either pretty or not.
There's a phase in my life when I stopped caring about how I look beyond being neat and tidy and did what I wanted to do. Joined what I wanted to join. And people started talking to me. Zero to little mention on looks. Works best if you surround yourself with a new crowd though. I do not care for people who criticise my look unless it's a problem on the neat and tidy part. But first you need to stop thinking about being ugly or pretty. You deserve a good life, same as all the good people in the world.
Tysm for making this video. This is a constant topic on Twitter. It's always hoards of average looking women complaining about the "downsides" of pretty privilege. When told they're experiencing misogyny like every other woman, they lash out and call everyone jealous. I get second-hand embarrassment every time.
I agree. I’ve said that being super beautiful gets more attention on you. People notice you. Sometimes it’s good (jobs, halo effect etc), but sometimes it’s not (stalkers and other unsavory male fixations, women threatened by you). It’s a matter of whether the good outweighs the bad. IMO under patriarchy, the real privilege is invisible privilege
I was surprised Elle didn’t point that out. In the past she has talked about immediately being hated on by other women for walking into a room. I would say that is a downside because it leads to ostracism and isolation, thus impacting a woman’s ability to build a community and make connections.
This is literally my experience as a woman who is smart. Literally every single person tried To humble me because my brainpower is somehow threatening. It is the fact that we are women that we get shit upon. There are no downsides to pretty privilege at all.
People are more likely to lie about who they are in order to ‘bag’ a pretty woman. YES this happens to all woman, but being pretty puts an extra target on your back. Wish you would have referenced this in your video. I’m saying this as someone who didn’t experience PP until after a plastic surgery procedure. There are more advantages because people treat you better, but there are downsides and it’s kinda disingenuous not to acknowledge that.
as someone conventionally pretty, trust me, smiling and flirting my way out of things have worked for me, when my friends claim this normally wouldn't have happened with them. So I don't know what exactly are the downsides of pretty priviledge
Jealousy is the only downside. Its actually comes from your closest friends. But the privilage that comes with being pretty outweighs anything else. I say that as someone who has been pretty but then had a "glow down". I was a way better looking child and teenager than as an adult . Also gained alot of weight during quarantine and got many acne. The difference between how people treat you is crazy. I am not talking about dating, thats not a privilege , its just perferences. But like how people and strangers around you treat you changes so much. I always thought people were nice and helpful to each other until i got "ugly". Now that i have lost some weight and my acne are mostly gone. Strangers are again nice.
I got bullied heavily in school I noticed the difference immediately after dropping weight and going back to the same school I was bullied at. I WAS LEFT ALONE. Not complely but far way better than I used to I was able to sit at a lunch table by my self it was rear to have bad days where kids pick on me. The only thing was that GIRLS. The girls who would tell the guys to leave me alone stared being mean and the guys would defend meeeeee😣 it was shocking.
But if we say that the root cause of pretty people being treated differently and that causing them benefits in some areas and the alleged drawbacks in other areas is simply misogyny. Then, isn't people treating women badly when they are thought of as ugly or not considered pretty is also coming mainly from misogyny? What I mean mean to say is a lot of problems branch out of the root, that is misogyny, for example, toxic boy moms, pick me behaviours, etc. But we can discuss about them individually and acknowledging the nuances and small different ways it comes out in the society. I completely acknowledge the halo effect and the benefits of having pretty privilege but saying there are not downsides to anything seems a very no-nuance approach (in Elle's words.😅) I have always been a bright student throughout my life. Didn't pay attention to how I looked in school, out of pure choice and got in to a really good science research institute and my college experience was completely different just because i started paying attention on how I looked and started working on it. Going from teachers pet to the harsh judgement from profs at college was an eye opener. From my personal experience, people judge you based on looks and think and treat you both good and bad in terms of different criterias.
I’m telling you, when I look like ish men LEAVE ME ALONE. When I pretty it up, they come out of the woodwork and not to bring anything good. Never does anything good come from any man in my 50 years of experience. Pretty never helped me. The best space is mid. Low to mid. I can change my image on a wide range. I can look really bad or really good. I poured a ton of resources into my looks - hair extensions, lashes, weight loss, tan, toned & life got way worse. Women got way nastier. I did this glow up from getting hired to leaving a female dominated company. They loved me when I was chubby and uglier, but they got visibly upset as I got prettier. They were all married. It was ridiculous. Women are horrific. Now I cover everything, with a scarf, dress specifically to avert the male gaze & attention. I wear glasses and baggy dresses. I do not show expected “western women” kindness to men and most women in public. I ignore the f out of them when they try to get me to do any unpaid labor, including smiling at their nasty selves. I have a business that does not depend on my beauty & that does not take me away from my kids throughout the day. When I network, we glam it up but I stick with women only networking groups for the most part. Because it is true, for the marketing part of the job, beauty matters. I just know when to use it and when to close it up for maximum power. The disgusting male neighbors in my apartment complex are terrified of me & this is wonderful. I have a theory that some kind of subconscious signaling happens when you *can* use pretty privilege but do not use it. I have skinny privilege & a body better than most 25 year olds including myself at 25. But when a woman at my age isn’t using every available way to signal her desire for approval - people get confused. Confusion often forces respect because of the American socialization to not stare. So when I go out in baggy dresses and head scarves & big sunglasses, they accidentally show respect 😂 the super aggressive men who do get upset will stare. And now you know who your biggest threats are. Playing with this is very empowering and educational.
I'm a blonde girl with blue eyes who is tall, has a straight nose and skinny. So I fit the beauty standarts. And I have to admit that pretty privilege exists and doesn't have any downsides.
Let me ask you are u too skinny like with flat bbs huh i'm sorry i want to ask this because I'm pretty and skinny with no bbs and people tell me to put on some weight??
The movie “Malena” every one? Do you remember how well portrayed was the misogyny of society to beautiful women? That poor character suffer at the hands of both men and women until they broke her..
@@Nanancay yep, once they humbled her and drove her crazy, they scratched their itch and were now done with her. They’ll never do that to me though. I’m not dealing with American misogyny and bloodthirsty “SJWs” out to get revenge on anyone who has more than them. I work from home and heavily screen my friendship group. I don’t allow any talk of “Privelige” in my circle, everyone has seen me get abused and lose work over the situation so they know not to say stupid stuff around me.
!["i'm dating a broke guy but he has a great personality" [no he doesn't]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5mx2g1mCgmk/mqdefault.jpg)
!["i'm dating a broke guy but he has a great personality" [no he doesn't]](/img/tr.png)
![50/50 men are in survival mode [generational wealth, free bird theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/e4PYIzigFR0/mqdefault.jpg)
![consideration is the highest form of love [men "teaching" women a lesson]](/img/1.gif)
To every comment out there saying "well what about Malena ??" or "but I'm pretty and men harass me more :(" , here is the thing :
Misogyny does not spare beautiful women. That is the message of Elle's video. Women, conventionally beautiful or not, suffer from men dehumanising them, objectifying them, being violent towards them, cheating on them, etc. Beyoncé and Adriana Lima who are probably some of the most beautiful women in the world still got cheated on by their husbands, and there's a long list of female models and celebrities who were horrifically abused by their partners, etc. This is very important for all of us to recognize.
Implying, however, that beautiful women have it "worse" in terms of misogyny is where everyone draws the line. It is an incredibly dangerous and factually incorrect idea that beautiful women get raped more, stalked more, bullied more. For every pretty woman who was bullied for her looks, how many women were bullied for being fat or unattractive ? For every pretty woman who was isolated by her peers for being threatening, how many women were isolated for being the "ugly girl", and made fun of while people turned their backs ? I am black and grew up in a racist white area, and for this reason alone I was deemed as unattractive growing up and isolated. Am I supposed to sit here and nod when a white blonde woman tells me she had it worse than me because she's just too beautiful ? Why am I not allowed to criticize this attitude without being called jealous and bitter ?
The point being made is that beautiful women should use the fact they still experience misogyny as an experience to teach all women that the endless pursuit of beauty through makeup, deadly diets, plastic surgery, fillers and endless consumerism, does not necessarily lead to the happiness they think it does. You should use your experiences of harm to show women that beauty is not a magic wand that will fix every problem. But instead, the comments are filled with "pretty women get harassed *more* and stalked *more* and men lie to us about who they are which clearly never happens to you!!" even though there are no studies that show that is the truth. Men also use, dehumanise, abuse and obsess over "average" or conventionally unattractive women. Why don't you just take a look at the list of women who have gone missing or who have been murdered by a man for rejecting them ? You'll find that most of these women aren't supermodels. They're for the most part just average women, because misogyny targets EVERY woman, like you and me. You are allowed to fully express your grievances, but you AREN'T allowed to use these grievances to make it seem like we should all be "grateful" we were born ugly because at least we don't have to experience misogyny, or at least not as bad as you.
This attitude is not just ignorant, but incredibly harmful because every woman should know that predators go out of their way to pick victims who will not easily be believed. Hence why they target children, but also yes, "unattractive" women, fat women, disabled women, etc... Because when these women come out and say they've been raped, men will repeat the good old "you're too ugly to be raped". You might argue that it's not what you're saying, but when you make it seem like rape is a crime that specifically targets beautiful women when it's not, you are reinforcing this idea that women are spared from male violence unless they are beautiful enough to get their attention. Not only is this making it harder for women to be believed when they are attacked, but it also makes sexual violence a "compliment" to beautiful women, hurting all of us. Instead of using your experiences to shed light on the fact that beauty doesn't divide women in lines between the ones who have it "good" under patriarchy and the ones who don't, you are using it to crush our experiences and act like they are not as threatening or dangerous as yours, and that is where the backlash is coming from.
Now you can either watch Malena (a movie made by a man) for the 5488566 time and call us all jealous, ugly and bitter for refusing to bow down to the idea that pretty women are to patriarchy what Jesus on a cross was to Romans, or you can find out that there is a space where you can express how patriarchy has hurt you in a specific and unique way without implying that you've had it worse than everybody else.
Thank you for sharing 🫶🏽🫶🏽 this was so well put.
Amazing articulation!! It's two sides of the same misogyny coin. Nobody wins here
🎉thank you! It is not struggle/oppression Olympics people....i feel this on so many levels as a dark skin girl of west african heritage who was MOCKED teased and sexual mistreated by people.who looked just like me and gaslit into thinking "for a darkskin girl you should be grateful the Jamacian boys are even interested"
This is an excellent comment. I would argue that just like unattractive, average, disabled women aren’t believed when they talk about their experiences, beautiful women are also not believed when they say that being beautiful also comes with a lot of costs. Even just saying pretty privilege implies that. Now, based on pure aesthetics, would a pretty person trade places with someone who’s average or ugly? Of course not, but there are many videos that talk about the misogyny that pretty women face, and there’s always a backlash. How can you explain the backlash against a pretty woman who says that she’s also experiences misogyny and a host of other problems due to her beauty? If she’s sincere about her experiences, it’s not a reach to consider that the backlash could be due to jealousy. I honestly think that there will never be a middle ground where women can agree on when it comes to experiencing misogyny as long as women are competing for men. It will always be a competition on who has it the worst, and who is more deserving/worthy because of whatever they had to endure.
@@ninisky2706 thank you thank you thank you. These so called pretty women in the comments section swearing in the loudest voice that they have it so bad is not backed up by any research anywhere ever because it’s not true in the slightest. I greatly appreciate this well thought out response. My opinion is people just want to be special. They can’t just be pretty but they have to swear it’s also so hard as though having it hard erases the long list of actually benefits that come from being seen as attractive. I also strongly believe that what we call pretty privilege, in many cases, is just white privilege. These women want so badly to be put upon. Perhaps it makes them feel strong to think they’ve had some type of disadvantage but they have no idea how bad it can be for a woman. No clue at all. They keep saying the most ignorant stuff trying to claim it’s so hard being pretty but we all know that it’s really not. I honestly think that the only real drawback of being seen as pretty or beautiful comes when a person becomes self absorbed and thinks they actually deserve or entitled to better or special treatment. For example all these woman making bald face false as statements about attractive people being more vulnerable. Hell no. That’s not true in any society on earth today. Not in comparison to the poor, the minority, the handicapped, the mentally infirm. It just screams look at me I’m actually a really deep person who has to deal with so much can you see it really is hard. When we ALL have to deal with that mess and many of us way more than they sever will and can’t get any help from anyone because we are seen as valueless.
For real going to start asking men "then why do you look like that?" when they say they're "visual creatures"
Facts 💯💯🗣🗣
😂
absolutely going to use this 💀
Permanently borrowing this 😂😂😂😂😂
it's such a brainwashed excuse. anyone is capable of better thinking processes & growth, but a lot of these men (who would otherwise be good people) subconsciously know they benefit from this system so they have these massive issues within areas of their thinking by having no critical thinking skills being applied to that bias that benefits them but harms others.
so they can just sit around & say dumb stuff like that "visual creatures" thing that's ultimately an untrue excuse in reality.
just because someone was raised to think a certain way does not mean they can just leave it unchallenged once they are informed it harms others. they have to be held responsible & to do better.
Yup, because ugly women have the same problems as pretty women just explained differently. And sometimes not even explained differently at all.
Pretty: they only want me for my face and body.
Ugly: they don't want me because I'm ugly. They only want to use my body.
Pretty: they don't take me seriously
Ugly: they still don't take me seriously
Pretty: I tie my worth to my beauty
Ugly: I tie my worth to my lack of beauty
Smh lol
I wonder if what pretty people want is to expirence the opposite
There are some differences. Below average women are seen as invisible, bullied by both men and women, and are assumed to be desperate and jealous. When they are harassed they "should feel lucky someone wanted to". Above average women are often seen as weak (too pretty to fight), picked on usually by women and casually harassed by men, and are assumed to be mean. If they get harassed it's "what did you expect?/ I would have done it too".
You summed up my thoughts exactly lmaoo
Except people are more likely to lie about who they are in order to ‘bag’ a pretty woman. Yes, it happens to all women. But being pretty puts an extra target on your back.
That last part is optional
A guy I liked was talking to me and he was so sweet funny and bright. The same guy had given a girl he wasn’t attracted to such a horrible look of disgust and meanness that it actually scared me out of dating him. I overheard their convo it was chill but every word he sneered patronizingly at her. Super chilling. The way men treat women they are not interested in is wild
exactly and its so weird :'3 for me usually in my experience yea? I am considered pretty but at the same time my personality is described as crazy etc etc (rightfully so lol with everything ive done especially if u know me irl) so it really shows peoples different sides at once when i start wearing a costume or smth and throw empty dustbins on ppl.Like "shes pretty but shes kinda insane" which really rules out the type of people..people are??? you get what i mean here?? idk weird ahh analogy ok but i hope it helped thanks for readiiiiiiing
I had a work friend who I started dating once I quit my old job. Early on, he pulled the whole 9 yards including hand holding, intimate late night conversations, and getting me breakfast in bed. He overall was expressing deep regard for me as a person and wanting to take care of me. And I was all for it.
Until I realized how his treatment of women was tied to how attractive he found them. He had a younger female friend who was jealous of anyone he dated. And he never set boundaries with her because he had previously led her on for sex and I guess didn’t want to deal with the consequences. I was really upset and ended things with him shortly after finding out.
Exactly, I've now put this as a vetting criteria on my list: How does he treat women he doesn't find attractive? Is he still treating them with respect or is he completely disregarding them and treating them like garbage?
The way they treat their wives, mothers of their kids and daughters is wild too. Also the way they treat women that they are attracted to but are afraid to approach. That's when things really get weird lol. It was great you got to witness that. Idk men have never really been that nice to me in general lol. A few here and they but they're generally rude lol. I have to watch my back too
You learn who you are dating by paying attention to how they treat people that they do not find date or. That is how they will treat you someday (after the honeymoon phase).
Someone said pretty women have to worry about being threatened if they reject a man. Average women have to worry about this too, they might even draw more ire because a lot of men feel that average women should be more grateful for a man's attention if they are not stunningly beautiful.
Especially if you are overweight.
Yeah if you're overweight, have acne, have scars etc, a man with fragile ego will find a way to point it out in the meanest way possible if you reject him.
And let’s not forget less likely to be believed or protected in the events that they do
@@luminousmotion Of course all women have to worry about what you’re saying!! Being pretty simply puts at extra target on your back. You are more likely to experience men lying to obtain you because more are attempting to for bragging rights. That’s it.
Being pretty is a net gain but there absolutely are downsides.
Nobody said being pretty didn't have downsides. That being said, some of these responses are giving "average girls are too ugly to understand" energy.
"Average" girls can be harassed just like petty girls, but can average girls reap the benefits that pretty girls do?
Pretty girls complain, but probably wouldn't trade places with plainer girls.
I was harassed, stalked, used even though i was bullied and called ugly all my life. I wish i was at least beautiful, because guess what? I had to prove myself at work too, nobody thought i was more competent because i was ugly, a lot of people thought i was stupid. 0 success in dating, always ignored. Whenever you try to talk about it, prerty women come out of the woodwork to say they have it worse. I'm sure there are real problems, but you bet u would love to be pretty just to avoid feeling like i was invisible just for 1 day
Right, like how pretty women talk about becoming invisible with aging, but we don't hear from their less beautiful counterparts.
The issue is that the two groups have been pitted against eachother. Any time one talks about their issues it's either "they're too privileged to understand" vs "they're just jealous". Above average women are treated terribly, but so are below average women. But being seen isn't what you want. I had an "ugly duckling" happen to me later in highschool and early college, the looks I got and approaches from older men made me sick to my stomach and afraid. People feel entitled to touching you and making inappropriate remarks in public. I'm happiest being average.
@@uniquenewyork3325 the thing is, I was approached by older men too. I was sa'd by someone much older than me in a work setting. These things happen to ugly women too. I never got a compliment and just got abuse and indifference. I'm sorry you experienced the things you described and it''s worthy to speak out against them. The thing is, nobody talks about the abuse ugly women suffer. Look at incels, shouting online the women have it so good in life, attention, privilege... this is NOT true for all women, but for a lot of society ugly women are not even considered, because for a lot of men the main value a woman has is her appearance and guess what, if you are ugly you are worth exactly 0.
@@silviacarli5863Nailed it. at least, most of pretty women are seen as worthy. Ugly women are so cursed by others that we are not even seen. Most people don't even belive we had gone through abuse, because they don't see us as a person wortht of any kinds of attention. Yet, they swear beatiful women have it worse because "my friend is jealous of me 🥺" like whatttt.
@@silviacarli5863 I was also harassed before, I didn't mean to imply only pretty women are harassed so I apologize if that's how it came across. A difference I noticed is that it's usually much more casual and public when done to above average women since they "should expect it", while it was done more discreetly to below average women and "they should feel lucky".
Literally been on both sides of pretty privilege at various times in my life and sometimes in the same day. It's just misogyny. Also, you're so on point. Yoyo-ing my weight made me really cynical about people. It made me not want to date guys unless they've seen me fat and at my worst because I didn't trust they actually liked me. It made me hate how horribly people treat those they deem unattractive. They're actually treated like subhumans.
Amen. I lost over 1/3 of my body weight and it was like I entered a new world. Now I observe how men I’m interested in treat those they find unattractive because I know that was me at one point.
What does misogyny have to do with anything. And ofc people want to date people they’re attracted to
girl same, i yoyo a lot and weight loss changes how i look drastically. I can go from having someone pump my gas for free to literally being told by my own brother that he didn’t want to be seen with me in public because i was ugly and an embarrassment to be seen with. Seeing the extreme difference makes me so cynical with every man. I had one guy literally trip me in front of everyone in school and act like he didn’t do it and just walk away and then years later when i “glowed up” he was in my dms. He didn’t remember me at all, and he was being all nice and respectful trying to flirt and in that moment i was so appalled. Literally if you are unattractive to most men they treat you as if you don’t exist. As if you are unworthy of any respect. seeing men act like that will literally screw how you view them all :/.
my weight always been the same but i started taking better care of my skin etc. and there is a huge difference tbh
@@blatantmotivation8939 it's not about dating, it's about behaviour.
A lot of the “downsides” of pretty privilege is not exclusive to pretty women alone. Being harassed,stalked,SA etc are all things that women regardless of their looks face, these are symptoms of patriarchy/misogyny not pretty privilege.
However, to deny that there aren’t any unique issues that come with being pretty would be delusional of me🤷🏾♀️
Now if I had to choose to wake up being an ugly/average woman or a pretty woman, I’m deffo picking being a pretty woman.
@@shibangidas6929 that’s very sad and she didn’t deserve to experience those things but again those are things that women of all attractiveness levels go through, the reasons are just different. Your friend who is pretty is being undermined because all people think that she’s good for is being pretty. An ugly/avergae woman is going to be undermined because she isn’t pretty enough and simply because she is a woman.
The common denominator is being a woman and facing misogyny and patriarchy.
@@xxshanxx4290 what would an example of a unique issue that comes with being pretty. I’m curious.
@@DaughterofDiogenes not being able to make any male friends because they pretend to like your personality, then eventually just admitting that they keep you around because your hot and they hope they can pipe one day. Having women that don’t even know you be rude to you at work on your first day. Having people start rumors about who you’re sleeping with at EVERY job you go to just for fun. Being labeled as the “slutty friend” despite being celibate for years. A lot of times people assume the worst of you just because of your looks.
@@DaughterofDiogenes see the only thing wrong with being pretty or even rich is that their privilege makes them out of touch sometimes and they go make vids saying
'why being pretty is not all that' or 'rich ppl have problems too🥺'
Personally i feel because that these ppl subconsciously think life shd be better for them because of their status and are mad when they realise that all humans have problems no matter who they are😭
@@DaughterofDiogenes Well maybe not just pretty, but perfect Hollywood bombshell gorgeous certainly has dark sides. Someone famous mostly for their looks being picked apart more as they age. The volume and acceptability of harassment much higher, Megan Fox's interviews always being this come to mind. Certain kind of social loneliness as men are being uncontrollable horndogs seeing her as objectified eye candy and women with severe pickmeism level pushing her away for evoking certain jealousy, winning manmade beauty pageant we call society, being able to "steal their man" away in theory. They don't want to be "the ugly friend" of hers. It's certainly messy, but ultimately it is a privilege opening doors and raking cash, that everyone craves more or less, hence super beauties don't tend to uglify themselves for more than a couple of roles if they want to be taken more seriously and beyond constant lust and envy in the air.
Having been both beautiful and ugly in my life (by conventional standards), men's behavior has been consistently self-serving. However, they were nicer to my face when I was pretty. When I rejected them, they tended to take it a little better since they knew I was 'out of their league'. Now, they're just rude to my face, which is actually both hurtful and refreshing. The trash takes itself out, but wow, I live in a landfill.
FR a men wanted to pass and he was a bit mad that I was blocking his path but he changed his behavior as soon as he saw my face lmao. I used to be ugly so I already experienced that, like getting insulted for this type of sht but now it's all different. When I was ugly being shy was "weird" now that I'm pretty being shy is "cute" LIKE BRUUUUH, i'm so mad at this.
This is entirely off topic, but I just wanna let you know that that last line is wonderful. I giggled a little at it, it’s very clever
Sending a virtual hug.
@@Prominence2.0 the last line is exactly what men claim they face on the daily.😂😂 interestingly enough.
I found the opposite to be true, but I was beautiful facially before, just fat. Losing weight made me realize that everyone hates beautiful and introverted women. Also made me realize just how much fatness makes people not see facial beauty.😂
I was a tomboy. In my teens i got the societal message that tomboys, "masculine" women were low status, so i started dressing and acting hyper feminine. Being somewhat pretty helped. I got flooded with compliments, people envied me. I joined a mean girl clique. But internally i was lonely and deeply miserable. This was because i was not true to myself. I left the clique, started dressing more tomboyish and made friends who actually liked me and vice versa. No constant attention from men but more overall happiness. Beauty helps in interviews and brings oppurtunities. But its a depreciating asset. Invest in your health and skills.
Lean into it. Stats that I have seen recently show that women that dressed more masculine were seen as more professional and thus, more likely to get a job. You are a woman but in certain ways you can use and weaponize your perceived masculinity in your favor. You can never utilize it the way a man can, so use discernment to determine which forms of masculine traits and presentation would best work and when. Of course, other factors like race, class, personality and perceived sexual orientation plays a role in this as well. So tailor it with those things in mind. You can do it if you want to!
@@pariscarla822 As a gender-fluid female, I do *exactly* this. I present as masculine to navigate the world with safety and confidence, but I can become a feminine witch when i'm alone or around close friends.
Traditional gender roles may be f-ed for women, but once you learn the rules and boundaries of gender, you can learn how to BREAK those rules and adopt whichever modes benefit your lifestyle.
@@pariscarla822it actually depends on the environment you’re working in. Appearing masculine does help in a male dominated space or a mixed space wuth a dominating masc energy. However i found in a female dominated space where the dominating energy was much more feminine, it benefits you to look and act more feminine.
It's wild how experiences can be so different, for me once I hit middle school it was more popular to not be like other girls. Feminine traits were bad, you'd be liked more if you could do things like the guys. Looking good was still important as a girl but hyperfeminine was bad, more boyish styles were good and no pink. You could get away with dressing feminine if you could prove you could match the boys in more things or even outperform them. In or after highschool school tho I've seen a lot of girls my age lean into hyperfeminity because it was so discouraged before.
@@Mira-gu6we I heard in history that there were many tomboys who invented something to society,so don't think of yourself as less or low
I think people are failing to realize that being pretty gives you infinitely more benefits than you would have looking any other way. If you want to say there are downsides you have to at least acknowledge that compared to not having pretty privilege, it’s way easier. I always see men use it as a way to divide women, that’s why pretty privilege isn’t really discussed when referring to men. Stop dividing ourselves❤
Exactly
I don’t think the privilege is denied, but most ppl conflate this privilege with a perfect life and see these people as objects or project their own insecurities and expectations onto them.
I see it as winning a consolation prize in a losing game.
But as we can all see even from this comment section it's still women insisting that they suffer “soooo much from being sooo pretty🥺✨"
I don’t understand how you say it’s only used to divide us while also saying that being pretty makes things easier despite any downsides. Isn’t that a contradiction or am I missing something?
For the longest time I’ve wondered why my family has been so successful for generations despite so many hardships and I’ve realized it’s because of how we look. For some reason we were blessed with insane genetics and most of us are tall, lean, and have angular faces. My dad was picked out of thousands in a war torn country to receive asylum in the West because of how he looks. It’s actually insane how pretty privilege can impact lineages.
Wow! But I’m not surprised. I remember after Hamas taking this gorgeous half French half Israeli young woman on October 7. And I absolutely knew if anyone was going to make it out of that hostage situation alive. It was going to be her. There was no way they were going to hurt her. She is probably one of those beautiful women they have ever seen in their lives. And I think as a cat, it would be really hard tohurt someone. If you don’t know, I’m talking about her. She is gorgeous.
@@HulaMaskhamas does not hurt their hostages.
@@HulaMaskgirl they let her go cause she was half French and they didn’t want France to join Israel in fighting them. That was a strategic move on their part not pretty privilege.
@@arixoxo1520well their victims say otherwise, Hamas is a terrorist organization
@@Megami87nah, France wouldn't have joined a war/military conflict over just 1 person.
I think it's the fact that being especially hot or especially feminine presenting gets you more attention, so you might just feel like hot women are more at disadvantage, when really it's still just sexism
💯💯 "Women are threatened and hate on you." Like people do not try to humble non pretty women, etc. You mean women are pitted against each other using looks for social capital?
It's strange/not self aware to me that people describe pretty privileges downsides yet they go on to describe misogyny that "undesirable" women experience (often more intensely & invisibly bc no one believes them & they're victimized specifically bc they're deemed less important & valuable in society). When this is reduced down to its core: desirability politics, access to various levels of humanity, rights, compassion, opportunities & therefore power then the debate ends. It's not about how you "feel" it's about access & power
@@EeeeVeee231 💯💯💯💯💥💥💥💥💥
Yes! Like, a pretty woman will always get more male attention, so I think she is more likely to receive attention and good treatment from good men, but also more likely to be harassed and stalked by bad men! (Sorry for my english 😅)
@@MarcustheWu idk I'm average and I wasn't attempted to be humbled by any gender... Let's not act like the podcast bros and their behavior we see online is as common in real life....
Men actually have pretty privilege too, but is more obvious in women.
pretty clear for men, too, IMO. Height, jawline, and hair line, for example, make a big difference in how men are treated
agreed, a big part of that is height for men
Yes and there’s this heartbreaker video of the late Donald Sutherland crying about how when he was young, he asked his mother if he was ugly and his mother told him he looked “interesting” or something like that and he explained how that comment stayed with him for the rest of his life.
Yes because men have other dimensions to be valued, like money, strength and charisma. The great leaders have never been questioned regarding their looks, in comparison to the female leaders where a constant question is her looks.
But it's true, pretty privilege is in both sexes
Well there is but I'm afraid it's much more impactful for women. Men are valued for a whole range of things and have fewer limitations based on how they look. For instance, in acting and in politics, unattractive women get nowhere. Unattractive men can succeed.
It's something I try hard to over ride because I'm sure the unattractive among us have had to work harder to develop themselves and are probably better at many things.
When you said you’re ready for men to be pretty again, I literally yelled YES. I’m so done going out on dates with low effort men who don’t care about dressing up and looking decent for me. No more Jean shorts and scruffy T-shirt, no no we are done with that childish shit. IM NOT putting in two hours of work on myself to stand next to a man who look like he crawled out from under his house.
Male attention is not a privilege
Exactly even babies and corpses get their attention so its not a flex
It is if you want to find love imo
Male attention is the least important aspect of pretty privilege lol. I'd say getting more opportunities and earning more money are way more appealing than that.
@@_tripalongthat only applies to jobs in the service industry. She mentions male preferences for pretty women in many episodes, now we're supposed to believe that only male criminals and sex pests don't seek out pretty women to victimize? It's ridiculous
It can be.
As a considerably attractive woman i noticed i get harassed ( catcalled , approached by mean spirited men etc) only when im dressed down or when i look physically vulnerable ( being ill for example)when i dress well and put make up on most men stare and drop their eyes on the floor when i look back at them .I made this as a social experiment. For a week i used my model like walk wearing heels ,hair professionally done , feminine classy clothes ,make up and went out . Only few men looked without dropping their stare to the floor. Those men who were able to actually keep their stare hold the door for me going in and out of places etc. I was getting the most hatefull lookes by other women Then i dressed with athletic clothes or simple jeans... more casual with only make up on and natural hairstyle and a more relaxed look i didnt get stared the same way .I was being looked at but without the intensity, women were friendly and men would chat with me but very friendly .Then i would dress with simple trousers and a t-shirt or a long dreas no makeup at all and very simple flat shoes .Now this look was the one that put me in the most uncomfortable situations . I got catcalled and aggressively approached by the most predatory creepy men. Women gave my mixed looks some looked at me with arrogance some were extremely friendly. Men ignored me completely. The only attention i got were from creepy older men and weirdos .
Misogynistic men want a woman to be powerless regardless if she is pretty or not .The more unkempt you look peope assume you are not confident and you are somehow vulnerable. Predators are attracted to vulnerability. I think its not a pretty privilege its the well dressed privilege. When what you wear gives the impression that you are someone important people tend to treat you accordingly no matter how your face or body looks like . Appearance matters more than beauty .If you are considered unattractive but you are dressed like a million dollars you get pretty privilege too . If you are dressed down no matter how physically beautiful you are people will assume you are depressed poor or lack confidence those 3 situations make you vulnerable to predators and ignored by regular people who may have been friendly if you looked better. Its unfortunate how superficial humans are
That’s something I’ve also noticed at one of the shops I go to every month! Same workers and they give me different looks every time I go in a different attire
In HS, I went to school with this girl who was literally stunning, and day 1 no one talked to her including me because we all assumed that she was a b*tch. She ended up talking to us instead. She was hands down one of the nicest people, but she got it all the time... everyone just assuming that she was mean.
This happened to my best friend, she's socially anxious but people took it as her being stuck up and even told her "I avoided you because I thought you were mean"
My best friend growing up was always accused of being ‘fake’… just because she was pretty AND friendly.
Usually happens when people are initially jealous of the girl
@@uniquenewyork3325 I'm in spectrum of autism but my face don't tell that and people think I'm attractive. With this combo they always think I'm arrogant. When I'm actually just anxious.
This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder what pretty privilege really is. It sounds like people are being isolated because of it without even knowing why.
This reminds me of the movie Malena. She was an object of lust for all the town's men and of hatred for its women, especially since her husband left for war.
At the end, she was accepted because she looked 'older, less beautiful, less threatening'. But I'm still disgusted by what they did to her.
That’s what happens when a misogynist writes about a female main character
@@Wee_Catalyst I think the intention was not to make their character suffer, but to show the world that there are actually downsides to being (not only pretty, but) extremely beautiful, especially if they don't lower themselves just to seem less threatening, which unfortunately the character does at the end of the movie.
@@Wee_Catalyst how did you come to that conclusion?? Were you expecting a cultural shift in that movie where everyone else suddenly became feminists etc. A happy ending? That would be a fantasy. The movie showed reality. This is how society is. Men, women both can be horrible and Jealous.
@@Wee_Catalyst U sound like u lack empathy
@@happilyevernever4289 Just goes to show how bad at guessing games you are, maybe play some other games that match your critical thinking skills, like Tic Tac Toe or something like that
RUclips is clearly too advanced for you
Men who are good looking, 6'2, chiseled have it on easy mode. That is a fact, they don't have to develop a personality...
Bro literally men being attractive have so much privilege
Right. They have a lot of passes. They don't have to prove their "inner beauty" because society doesn't want them to. Women have to prove so hard if she happens to be gorgeous. She has to prove that her outer beauty is not only a shell to both women and men. She has to prove that she is not "a gold digger" even though he has no gold to dig.
So easy I can imagine. As a woman, I don't even like this kind of man because of that.
Getting dangerously close to femcel territory
I know one. He's lonely. Struggles to make real guy friends, thinking he's a "Chad", so they're super jealous and women want to just sleep with him, because they'd be too insecure to date him. There are pros and cons to every situation.
To add to the Nixon JFK debate, people who watched the debate on television (where they could SEE the candidates) though JFK won, while those who listened to it in the radio (so they could only know the points) had a more balanced view on the outcome. Being presentable is more important than being right in politics.
Trump is neither and still gets so much attention 😭
I don't know that's an example of pretty privilege. Remember: this was in 1960, not everyone owned a television. Television ownership was not evenly distributed across demographics and radio-listeners were more likely to be older and rural (i.e. disposed to agreeing with Nixon anyway). In my experience most people believe the person they already agreed with in a debate is the one who "won" it unless they really messed it up. But if it's a middling-to-good performance by both sides then your guy "won".
I feel like I got more attention from (old) men when I had severe acne. Now that my acne has cleared up I don’t get approached as often. Idk if they thought that since I had acne I’d be insecure enough to feel good about some old guy complimenting me or something. Has this happened to anyone else? Fr felt like I was harrassed more whenever I felt like I was at my ugliest. Makes me hate men even more.
Edit: that tik tok at the beginning has me so heated.
😮😮😮 im in shock
@@goblinbabe yes. I’ve gone through 3 different times in my life where I was an “ugly duckling” - age 13 when I also had acne, age 19-20 in college - gained weight from the “freshman 15” (which is 15 lbs that everybody gains when they start studying that much) and also stayed indoors too much and got low D, you look different and worse with low D3 levels, and then later on when I had a breakdown after 10 years of NYC living adrenaline like crazy. Each of these times I’ve attracted a worse “crowd” of men that think “they now have a chance”. At various times in my life I’ve had my entire phone messages filled up by men that I had zero interest in who had gotten my # through different work and friendship situations. And I had at least 10 phone numbers blocked, I had to pay for Robokiller to get them to stop calling. I still have several phone numbers in my phone of men so that If they pop up I will know it’s that guy and not answer it. I don’t want them in my phone list but I have to keep the # in there. And I don’t answer any blocked numbers because they try to call from a blocked number so they can still reach me. I’ve also had them show up next to my driveway when I lived in a house when I’ve blocked them and try to apologize for whatever made me block them (one guy was drunk in his house by himself trying to talk to me on the phone so I blocked him, no alkies please - he then showed up at my house. I drove away and thankfully he never showed up again). It’s really, really dangerous to be attractive to men.
Same here. They really think they have a chance lol😂
@@XtineJohnes OMG GIRL PLS I WISH U THE BEST STAY SAFE :'333 wait i kinda wanna share my story here hmmm
now that you mentioned it i realized why old men used to approach me more
I am a brazilian girl living in France so I'm definitely not the average type of beauty, I am more of an exotic type of beauty that unfortunately many guys fantasize about. The average looking girls HATED me (although most of them I never talked to) and some people openly mocked my looks (mainly because of my breasts and butt being too big) and I was made to be the butt of the joke way too often because of my looks. I remember being an adolescent looking in the mirror and HATING my body for being too vulgar, too sexually appealing. Maybe it also has to do with racism and stuff, but I don't know I haven't talked to many people about it.
yea that sounds like racism, it would likely happen if you were not so attractive as well
Yes, I’m French and it’s racism and sexism. In France the ideal beauty is a woman very young, thin ( with South Korea it’s the country with the most pressure on women’s weight) and naive .
I have a big butt too and I have the same experience than you sis ❤.
Try to spend time with people from cultural backgrounds which love and women with shapes ( maghrebin, Arab , African descendants, Portugese, Spanish…). Hopefully , there are a lot of diversity in France.
@@melumamala5542Thanks, I appreciate your comment ❤
I can relate so much as a Sudanese girl. Especially in Western societies where blonde white women are supposed to be the pinnacle of beauty. When another woman comes in and threatens that hierarchy they feel like your beauty is the threat. Being an exotic beauty in my opinion is one of the few instances where being pretty often works against you.
It's probably not racism
It's because you're pretty, they feel threatened by your beauty that's why.
Some channels talk about it you can search for exoticals channel, they talk about their experience being conventionally beautiful.
Am not downplaying anyone’s mental struggle but every women I know struggles with all these things every women benefited by pretty privilege. Because we DO live in a patriarchal society. AM NOT DOWNPLAYING ANYONES MENTAL HEALTH but yeah
I worked at a very well-known financial company. Without fail, the conventionally attractive and thin women were promoted regardless of their performance. In fact, it took MONTHS for a gorgeous, but utterly bonkers woman on my team (read: severe mental illness, paranoia, zero work actually done) to be let go. Multiple people had to report her behavior. I don’t want to work in banking ever again after the decade I spent in the industry.
Thank youuu ! Finally someone talking
I really loved the “if men are visual people why do they look like that” 😂
Thank you for yet another amazing video 🌸
When people complain about challenges being “unattractive” that’s valid. When people complain about abuse they endure for being “pretty”, that’s constantly invalidated because when you’re pretty you deserve every single bit of pain inflicted on you.
Being pretty is only a privilege when you're safe. If you were born pretty into a poor or disadvantaged family, you're going to face more danger.
Even pretty people in rich families got harrassed tho... There's no such thing as a perfect life
This isn't at all. All women are at risk, and pretty women are more likely to be believed and sympathized with when they come forward, according to studies. As someone who has been beautiful, and ugly: people treat more beautiful people better.
@@beccak8166 sounds like something you'd say when no one has ever threatened you by telling you how much money they could make from selling you
@@goldendiamon rich people are undeniably safer though
@@almibry the fact that you assume I haven't been targeted for sexual harm based on my opinion is... telling to say the least. If anything, I feel my "average" appearance put a target on my back, especially as a child, because I was less likely to be believed.
as an average looking woman, i will say that when i wear makeup, people are nicer to me and it is easier to make friends. most pretty women i know are popular and have friends, unless they have some sort of personality issue. it is easier for them bc of the halo effect.
personally i am introverted and have RBF. this causes people to feel threatened by me and try to put me down before getting to know me. it has nothing to do with being pretty, seeing as im not lol.
i also have been harassed by men and sexualized, as i am a woman and it doesnt take being pretty do experience this
Literally u just describe me as well
hmmm i think the topic is leering a lot onto the men stuffs like SA by them or..like...ummmm...whats it called... but what about the whole other thing abt girls not supporting other girls because of it?? cause yea i mean...for example ok im actually supposed to be pretty or something but at the same time i dont wear makeup because frankly im uninterested in looks lol but girls would be like...idk...? i dont get it guys :'3 someone help me here lol
This just unlocked a memory for me. I found my old report cards while going through paperwork at my parents’ house and was shocked to see my appearance commented on repeatedly. It is beyond inappropriate to even talk about this, let alone include it in my freaking report cards. Crazy!
Bad men will go to pretty women because she looks pretty, bad men will go to ugly women because she looks easy.
As someone who was considered ugly once and now when am considered pretty. Idc what people say, being pretty will only get people to be either too nice to you (or intimidated at times) or being extremely rude to you for no real reason. When I was considered ugly (I had cancer and no one knew so they just assumed I look like that) it was very easy for me to impress people with my personality whereas now its just about the looks.
But is being ugly better than being pretty? Definitely a no! Its like there are 90 good things about being pretty with 10 bad things and vice versa when you are ugly.
(This is just from my experience)
One of my closest friends is a drop dead gorgeous woman and she always talks about how hard it is to make female friends. Women just automatically struggle with hanging with her.
Maybe her personality sucks.
maybe bc it sucks being the ugly friend of a pretty girl, since she will get all the attention and perks from everyone while you are invisible at best. naturally we get envious.
@@thecozyconstellationthat’s true!
Haha I can't. It's hard for almost everyone in adult life to make friends. It doesn't cancel out pretty privilege perks just because there's one imperfect aspect of your life. These things aren't exclusive to having good looks, maybe she just hasn't found the right group for her.
THIS🎉
I've noticed that whenever I wear more make-up and fancier / sexier clothes, I get more attention, both positive AND negative! Men in particular seem more comfortable initiating contact and even mocking me / being cruel to me. So I feel like making yourself more attractive (as a woman) is synonymous with attracting more attention, sexist attention included.
I don't think misogyny spares pretty women at all. I've been told I'm pretty, yet I've had the worst things said to me online. That tiktok video where the woman said women are never taken seriously. That is so true. I'm a very opinionated person and so often whenever I post an opinion about anything, there will be some guy replying to me in the comments trying to make me feel dumb for having said opinion. I also hardly ever get approached by men and I thought I was ugly for the longest time. Even when guys have shown interest in me, they seemed superficial and showed more interest in my body rather than my mind or personality. I have lots of different hobbies and interests I want to share, but it always seems like they don't care to truly get to know me. And, that makes me feel even worse and hopeless because I'm an introvert and have a hard time approaching men.
It seems to always come down to Men breaking women down, pitting them against each other, and over all keeping women in a box.
@@namisami6761that's some bs. there are normal guys out there. you're just shooting for the top 5% of goodlooking guys who can allow themselves such behaviour.
I feel like the whole “downsides of pretty privilege” wasn’t denying that this is all due to misogyny. If anything I feel like it comes from a place of some pretty women feeling like their experiences with misogyny are considered less oppressive or less awful because they have pretty privilege, when in reality pretty privilege can lead you to receive more misogyny in very specific situations (not all the time or even most of the time) even if it can make life easier at other times.
Like I was bullied in high school by a lot of my teachers because of how I dressed. I didn’t wear anything that out of the ordinary or revealing. Just plaid skirts/y2k preppy girl kind of vibes. But that wasn’t super popular yet (again) in the mainstream, plaid skirts were still associated with “schoolgirl corn” at the time. The bullying and slut shaming came from a place of misogyny, that’s for sure, however I also know for a fact that if I’d dressed differently and put less effort into looking good my teachers would not have bullied me. My teachers always came for my looks, completely unwarranted, because they knew they couldn’t come for my grades. I had a teacher try and lowball me once because she didn’t like me, so instead of giving her the satisfaction of complaining I made sure all my following work was too good to deny the grade I deserved. Teachers made my last 2 years of high school miserable because they thought I dressed like a slut when in reality I just really liked Cluless. Something about how I looked in high school triggered adult women to hate me. I can’t think of a single woman teacher I had in the last 2 years of high school that didn’t contribute to the bullying. Now that I dress to focus more on comfort and I wear my glasses all the time, I don’t get the same treatment from adult women. They respect me way more. And it’s not an age thing, because I still look like I’m in high school even though I’m a few years into my twenties. Most people assume I’m a teenager still. The only thing that has changed is my style.
I’ll be the first to admit this all comes from a place of misogyny. Even in high school I could tell my teachers were mean to me because they struggled with internalized misogyny. It was obvious in the ways they were mean to me. Things like “oh you think you’re so cute in your little outfit don’t you” in a nasty tone as I left class.
Most of the time pretty privilege is a privilege, people treat me better and smile at me more when I look good. I see that my life as a woman is generally better because I’m conventionally attractive. But I also saw how the way I looked made every single woman teacher in my life hate me because of internalized misogyny. There can definitely be downsides to being conventionally attractive in our society, but the negatives still pale in comparison to the benefits.
This is exactly it. On one hand they say that pretty privilege doesn’t get you oppressed in unique ways yet they also say that not being attractive gets you oppressed differently.
I have been yelled at publicly at work and accused of having pretty privilege even though I wear always the same basic clothes, sneakers and the comfiest outfit, I hate to have attention on me at work and I also can not be bothered to put a better outfit. And the girl who attacked me is 10 years younger than me…
i never understood why middle aged teachers were whole ass beefing with kids, because same girl, and i'm not even pretty. why teachers, especially female teachers, are so horrible to their female students in particular, should be a whole ass video, is it because they're jealous, is it because they're not getting loved by their husbands? what is it that makes them come to school and BULLY students like kids themselves?!
Totally agree with you. the people commenting how its nothing special to being pretty dont see that its not a competition. its what people experiece and its valid. and them saying its not proves that pretty people cant share feelings or experineces without it being downplayed.
Agree with you 💯
The amount of times I was told “I wouldn’t have any problems if I looked like you” when I was sharing my mental health struggles (or something completely unrelated to looks) is ridiculous
Also had this problem with teachers in the uni. Was getting weird “blonde” jokes from teachers. I started to believe I was stupid even though my test grades were good
I would absolutely rather be pretty in this world, but we shouldn’t dismiss or diminish the struggles. Imagine feeling bad about something and the vast majority of people are BOO HOOing in your face. Sounds like a big drawback to me
@@MCE851 it is a drawback, however it's the only one. It is very out of touch to assume all the features of misogyny apply to you only due to looks, such as assumed incompetence, medical gaslighting, SH/SA/R, and so on.
The dismissal, I will admit as a pretty individual, of my issues on the basis of my looks is hurtful, however, I can only imagine being considered the "DUFF" and not know people see you that way as well as suffer misogyny.
I didn't know I was pretty until I was 18 and starting seriously dating. But being dismissed is a femme issue, nothing to do with one's allignment with beauty standards.
@gitchygitchyyaya it's not the only drawback.People are more willing to manipulate you and dismiss you because they already have an image they are projecting onto you. Yes, all women deal with harassment, but isn't it different when it's multiple guys in a day most days that you're out?....It's the same action,but with slightly different motives,and you always have to be vigilant of the conversations being drawn up with you,because most times you get into a whole conversation with someone just to find out they want something from you.This is coming from someone who has been attractive and unattractive
@@Rosabear26 I so agree with this. You have a target on your back almost all the time, it’s exhausting. You can’t trust intentions. I realized long ago that if I was not attractive, at least I would know they like me for me and are less likely to use me a status symbol or an ego bandaid
Okay, at 65 I can weigh in on my experience with "pretty privilege" when I was young. The main disadvantage was being seen as a "trophy" instead of a person. As early as age 14/15, a boy I barely knew decided to boost his image by claiming he had slept with me. He chose me because my looks gave him bragging rights among the other boys. I was a virgin and I wouldn't have given him time of day. It was infuriating. Even the guy I had my first long-term relationship with, was attracted and determined to keep me because of looks. I don't think he ever cared who I was on the inside.
During my mid-20s, after I broke up with my long-term boyfriend and was single, I had more than one experience where I was stalked. I had situations where I was preyed upon. I always looked young for my age, so I can't say it wouldn't have still happened in my 30s, but by then I was with the man I married.
The best example of how looks can lead a woman into treacherous situations is to watch the movie "Tess of The D'Urbervilles" to see a young woman in an earlier century victimized for her beauty by a rich man. There's a line in the movie where some other women say, "It's always the pretty ones." and it made me cry! (It's on RUclips)
Yes, this can happy to less pretty women too, but it's more likely to come at you in spades if you are young and pretty, especially if you are powerless like Tess.
Thank you for sharing. 💛
Words of truth
Thank you so much. You put into words something I struggle to express and I'm in my 30s. It's really disheartening to be told something is a privilege when that very thing is the reason people don't see your humanity. What does it take to get treated like a human being in this life?
totally feel with you. if talked about these feelings people downplay it-oh come on it cant be that bad all women experience that but does not still make it better. does it? when i read comments on this video i see why some pretty women might feel alone. Also i guess it comes down to personality. some people love attention, and crave it, no matter how awful it is some hate it and dread it. my sister told me she wishes she would be the one come in a room and have all the mens attention and this sounds like a horror scenario to me. thats that we need to aknowledge that we all dont feel the same about certain situations.
I realized that being pretty is not simply facial features and clothes. Being slim has a pretty effect; your posture is better and clothes look better on you. I started my running journey this week, hoping I meet my goal by the end of the year.
Thanks to all the supportive girlies out here. This community has done wonders for my outlook on life.
I’m in my “Divine Feminine Receiving Energy”😊❤
I think it’s disingenuous to deny that women often are jealous of other women. Some women can be absolutely terrible to the women they are jealous of. I’m all for woman community, but ignoring this won’t help anyone… I’ve seen women hating on the pretty girl just because she’s pretty. I know this isn’t exclusive of pretty privilege, but c’mon, a lot of women are insecure and will be mean to other women to feel "superior", and I’m not hating, I understand it’s patriarchy putting women against each other, to fight for male attention, but women who are complicit and won’t recognize it are a hindrance to the collective. I had to unpack a lot and treat my envious attachments, it was genuinely ruining my life.
Agree 100%!
THats not a pp ting …
35 min and no mention of envy. And the hellish viciousness of envious people. We do not live in Hollywood, were beauty is rewarded. The statistic about hiring managers favoring appearance is about being put together, not beautiful. Men do not hire beautiful women because they are afraid of being accused of wanting affairs, and women do not hire more beautiful women out of jealousy. Even when hired, many women in the workplace sabotage what they see as competition, and men make a point to humble the pretty one.
Yes, strange men might open the door at the store for you, but is of no consolation when you do not have the money to buy bread for the day. That is the consequence of beauty in the real world.
35 min without once calling out envy and nothing in the comments about envy, that is 0 progress on the road to a better future.
.
What about women being mean to you because you're pretty? When I became obese and started dressing down women started treating me kindly, as a 'non - threat'. When I look good, women tend to hate on me. Same stuff with men..when I looked 'hot' men treated me like meat... When I wasnt stereotype attractive, men actually listened when I spoke. Humans judge by appearance. Period.
It's true.
@@TashaRansomArt Exactly. I don’t understand why it’s considered such a privilege to be attractive to a pack of pit bulls (male and female) who will attack without provocation. The invisibility of low to mid has been the best of all worlds in my experience.
absolutely, but i think it depends more on what kind of prejudices the people around us have than to how good or bad we look
some women may be mean to other women because they are too pretty, or because they are too ugly
and some men may listen to ugly women because they think they have more brain, while other men may not listen because they think the ugly woman has no worth
i think we should all start judging people by their actions instead of their looks
That just proves the point the whole point of the video. There is nothing special about the negative experiences “pretty” women have, its just the society treating ALL women badly. Yeah some women are going to be mean to you cause you’re “pretty” but there are still TONS of women and men who are going to treat you poorly cause being unattractive automatically makes you less as a woman in. And we all know how much society hates fat people, please be real.
Yes! Good observation. So sorry you’ve gone through this.
The downsides of being pretty aren’t the things that a lot of ppl are listing. They list SA, general misogyny etc. (which happens to all women) but it is extremely hard for pretty women to make friends. If you look closely, popular people aren’t necessarily the prettiest people. Where I’m from, most of the popular girls are rich and average in looks. I had this online friend, and she literally loved me and when we met irl she barely uttered two words to me, was cold and dismissive and cropped me out of photos that the friend group took. She never messaged me again. This usually happens due to them thinking I’m competing with them for some guy. I spend most days alone (or with family), bc it’s just not easy to make friends. I think it’s important to address these things bc as a society that puts so much on aesthetics, people DO treat other ppl different bc of it and I’m tired of people dismissing it. I have yearned for friendship all my life and I am 24 and still haven’t found a close friend yet. And before people say it may be a personality problem, lemme just ask you: have you seen the type of a-holes that have the biggest and most loyal friend groups?
You are right. Bullies always have friends, and the bullied kid is a loner/has a small group of friends. Is not about your personality, but when you are really attractive, people just dont like you. That happens to super attractive men too, the hottest guy in my town told me about how hard is to make friends and how many people (men and women) give him hate/jealousy stares 🤷🏼♀️
As a beautiful black woman who grew up in an all white school I know this problem all too well
No girl I fully get you. I myself had been envied my whole life and I don't care how I'll be perceived anymore if I say these things because it's true and it's exhausting trying to just voice your experience and constantly dismissed just because.
I know more than 2 people who are extremely gorgeous that people think they'd be more popular than any other celebrities if they were one. And they are exactly in the same situation. Two of which killed themselves. Now see if I get a reply dismissing their suicide, it'll just prove my point anyway.
Btw, I'd love to be your friend🥺 I'm a lover of solitude and being a loner but I'd love a good, secure company, especially if they share the same experience with me ❤
Most popular peeps are popular due to looks 😂. Especially in school .
At the end of the day, I think pretty privilege discourse is more divisive than helpful. All women experience some favorability depending on certain circumstances. Some butch lesbians are treated more favorably in certain career paths than gender conforming women. While in other careers, not conforming to gender expectations like wearing make up will penalize you.
Either way, we are all subjected to sex discrimination and male violence.
Thank God there's someone with a functioning brain here. I can't believe this video tbh😂
@@divx1001I think the video is good. Pretty privilege does provide perks, but there is more than one way to be pretty.
I see women here dividing themselves into "pretty women" and "ugly women" and I think that's the problem. We're all women first, facing different types and levels of misogyny based on our social statuses and life situations. Being pretty, just like being rich is a different status.
Yes, it's a privilege, but not an end-all to life's problems. Different people face different problems, but comparing to one-up other people isn't the solution.
Now you may tell your rich friend that he/she has it better because they're rich, and that's true to a certain extent. They have more oppourtunities that middle class/poor people don't. But it doesn't mean they have 0 life problems. Nor should they tell you things like, "being poor is better, you're so lucky". Of course it's not. The same applies to being pretty. And both are subjective, so we should stop identifying ourselves with a quality, that is subject to change
No. I cut my hair, changed my style, and ultimately un-feminined myself. I experienced substantial benefits, and safety. I also experienced negatives, like being perceived as a competitor in male work spaces, however when I enter those same spaces femininly I am babied. Agreed, it is just misogyny, however the experience is real.
That's not about prettiness, that's about femininity/masculinity and misogyny. The same happens for women who aren't pretty who change their gender presentation.
@@alanamontero4743 Idk man, I think we disagree with root issues for this discussion. I, for sure, didnt change my gender presentation.
Is that supposed to be a “purdy privilege “ con ?
@@alanamontero4743 do you think butch women dont experience misogyny? misogyny is rooted in the control of the female body. Feminity is an oppressive tool of control, not an inherent sense of self that anyone who is feminine is oppressed for. Like genuinely wtf are you talking about.
I just hate the term and how it is used to degrade "pretty" girls, minimicing their experiences. Same with economic class.
I used to be angry at women who know they're pretty, but then realised that the only people I should be angry with are those put some women above others for looks. Women who are considered beautiful by the society can use the advantages that society gives them, and the only ones to blame are the society
The downside of pretty privilege is being predated far too early. Look at what happened to Brooke Shields.
Fr... For both my daughters and I, it was 3 years old 😣
... So you think this doesnt happend to us uggos? Cuz it does... I was one of those none attractive kids. There are millions of them.
Her getting into the enviornment was due to her being pretty sure. But the pretator behavior had little to do wit that, we know of less pretty kids in Hollywood who experience the same thing
@@michalovesanime No one said it doesn't happen to less attractive folks, stop putting words in my chat. It just happens quicker and more often with the pretty privileged folks.
@@jinaolen786 Sorry that happened to y'all. I don't understand people sometimes.
@@nonononono8194 thank you... I'll never understand why it happens to so many of us 😔
Once I tried unaliving myself. When I was at the hospital I heard the nurses and doctors talk about me and one nurse said "I don't understand why such a pretty a girl would do that". I know she didn't mean bad but being pretty does not mean my life can't be shitty Karen.
Yes they think beautiful women don’t suffer mentally…
Pretty people suffer from alot of mental health problems but people assume they would never feel that way due to their appearance.
It's crazy the kinds of things people say and think
@@Aye_pepitoo1789 THIS. I had a severe medical issue go undiagnosed for years because I would show up to the doctor and they’d tell me “Well, you look great, so…” 🙄. This comment section has failed the vibe check so bad.
Heard the same things when I talked about my s thoughts!
Hope you’re feeling better now ❤
People here are going on aboyt how they cannot maje any friends because women are jealous of them....have I been pretty this whole time? Are people jealous?
right??? i have had difficulty making friends and have been a loner throughout my entire life, have i missed somewhere in the fine print that i'm pretty?? quite the opposite, i'm not good looking. pretty people can have issues with making friends for so many different reasons, just like non-pretty people. it's not that special.
@@eri_sama but that's the thing, most of the pretty people making these claims want to “feel special” and “different” from the “regular”people
@@zippy3253 i think it's also the issue of oppression olympics and people in general not taking women's, including pretty women's, issues seriously, so they feel the need to "talk about the downsides".
Maybe you are pretty and people are jealous of you. Have you never actually considered that? Based upon your comment, you seem to have a pretty dismissive personality and that doesn't make for a good friend. However, if it wasn't your personality that put people off, maybe it genuinely was your beauty. People with low self-esteem tend to treat others poorly and the toxic cycle begins. Maybe be the change that you would have liked to have seen.
I didn't have friends in high school becuas3 I was a) autistic b) racism. And the misogyny i faced was coupled with that because i was objectified but shamed for being a defective object. But sure I think being pretty is the reason and not multipliers of oppression.
You guys are missing a huge point. Pretty women are despised by many (insecure) women, too. If she makes even a slight mistake or made them feel threatened, people try to ruin her reputation and life.
Since regardless of beauty, women are subjected to violence from toxic men,but for beautiful women, not only that, they are subjected to more pain from women too who are insecure .
And if the beautiful woman is insecure herself and doesn't realize her worth, she will be toyed like a doll from every insecure man and woman, many wont even help her truly, there is no place for her to run.
There are a lot of insecure people in this world, which are a product of patriarchy.
I believe beautiful women suffer more they are toyed to very core , saw one in real life, was so scared for her, she couldn't take it anymore, tried to destroy her body.
i agree but that is the only thing unique to those with pretty privilege. Envy and jealousy from others. And i can argue that’s not even a downside because if people are jealous of you that means they want what you have, that means you are doing something right. So people want to try to humble you to bring you down to their level.
This comment deserves more attention!
This comment! Hit it on the nail! 🎯💯
THISSSS OH MY GOD THANKYOU SO MUCH. many people are failing to realize how just because they see being envied as inclusive, it's much harder when there are more than a few people who feel that way in the same environment, let alone in others. This is why it's so hard to believe because even if others have spoken about it, they are constantly dismissed.
I also know more than 2 people who are extremely beautiful (men and women) yet they are hated for no reason other than their genetics. The good thing is some of them actually grew from it and learnt to run the world regardless.
I spent my entire life as a tomboy. I am skinny and have an ok-pretty face, but as a tomboy, I did not experience much of what women would accuse men of. I never got unwanted attention/comments, never once got approached on the streets, rarely felt objectified and I felt like I was taken seriously in professional settings. I did get rape nonetheless and experienced some forms of misogyny (mostly subtle and indirect). I was not having ''ugly treatment'' either (I don't know how to say this, but like, I was not being ignored by men or being looked/talked down on). But I recently started dressing very feminine ; flowery colorful dresses, wavy hair, nails done, dainty jewelry, etc. And it was night and day. I unlocked a whole new world. I can turn on and off ''pretty privilege'' just by how I dress. But here's the catch. From all this time being feminine and ''pretty'', I have to say that I did not experience a single positive change or privilege of any sort (compared to before), BUT, I have never been so objectified, stared at, approached in the streets (trust me, it's NEVER the kind of men you wish would approach you), commented on, mansplained and been assumed as unintelligent in my entire life. Now, every day something happens that makes me feel utterly uncomfortable. But I can just switch to my old style and I become invisible again (as in, left alone). I do agree with the message that you are never protected from misogyny as a woman but my experience was way too drastic for me to actually agree that there are no downsides to pretty privilege (and I'm still waiting for those added privileges...).
It's definitely ok to criticize women that use pretty privilege to step all over other women and put them down.
Your right that they still aren't elevated over men.
Are you sure that the women you think about really "step all over other women" or are you just being jealous?
@@ИмяФамилия-ь4ю4яthey specified women who use their pretty privilege to step over other women, which defines does happen. Not everyone is jealous of a pretty woman just because they’re criticising them
Pretty privilege often only gets you treated either like an infant or a sex worker by men. They may buy stuff for you, but it's usually because they want access to you in some way. They may help you, but only because they consider you too weak to handle it yourself. And of course there are genuinely nice guys who do these things with no bias, but you can tell the difference.
I’ve never had a bad experience with pretty/beautiful women tbh. Most of the put downs I’ve experienced were from average or even ugly folks themselves, out of their own insecurities.
@@ИмяФамилия-ь4ю4я isn't that the problem though?
With pretty people all critsim made is because of so-called jealousy
I am pretty, and eyes - downsides of “pretty privilege” is just plane old sexism.. but different kind, or the one you as an attractive one can experience more than non. As pretty my entire life i was perceived as “mean girl” and b*ch no matter what. Other girls who looked regular and were dressed casual always got more positive attention (were spoken to, asked to join a group, approached) when i was met with glares and behind back whisper. My teachers HATED me cause i was pretty. Guys rarely approaching me cause they are intimidated. If you are attractive and have a nice car or a chanel bag everyone automatically think it’s from a sugar daddy. Because i’m pretty i have no friends.
Is there benefits - yes. Can regular looking girl experience all above - yes. I’m just saying pretty girls experience those more. And i know there is something that regular girls experience more.
I saw a comment that highlights the fact that pretty woman experiences bullying from other (insecure) women or man. Glad that you highlight the true experience of being pretty, not just having it “easier”
@@kairi3895 hahaha I hope you realize the whole guys being intimidated reason for not approaching you is just a lie to make you feel better. No truly beautiful woman won’t have guys approaching her. It’s probably the way you carry yourself.
I'd also love to add this: Beautiful Men (aka Metrosexuals/Ikemen) are often ostracized and deemed as gay, with men* demonizing them to women that they're bad choices because they're gay, cuz these men* are threatened by their beauty and ability to attract women.
These Beautiful men also tend to have better hygiene, empathy towards women, and overall care towards people, though ofc narcissists can be these archetypes too.
There’s a well-known study showing that women care just as much about physical attractiveness as men do, we’re just less likely to admit it because of how we’re socialized to be sweet and accepting. We still care about looks, and why shouldn’t we if that’s important to us?
In my opinion, the average women cares even more.
Downsides:
1. Being lusted over and immediately being F’d Zoned because they assume you won’t be faithful.
2. If you happen to be single among other married women, they will exclude you as you are perceived as a threat. Are you a young, beautiful single mom? Most married women will not befriend you.
3. Constant negging and people always trying to humble you. Dealing with an unfair situation? Best believe that people will get off on trying to teach you lesson that you can’t always have your way.
4. You get dehumanized. It is only once they see you suffering and go through something such as an illness or other tragedy, that people will see your humanity. Prior to that ppl assume you live an unbothered and perfect life.
They do these to every woman. Not only pretty ones.
@@nlyfaeDoesn’t mean that it’s on the same scale. Who deals with it on a constant basis is that what makes it a downside.
@@nlyfaeMisogyny happens to every woman. Things like race, class and age factor into how this misogyny manifests. Is it so unimaginable that perceived attractiveness is also a factor?
Why do you guys fight so hard to claim that your suffering is “worse”? Do you know any “unattractive” women whose experiences you can compare to yours to measure how bad you actually have it?
@@zippy3253 First, the science says it’s worse. It acknowledges the benefits Elle mentioned, but also the downsides, which she didn’t. And by your logic, if we can’t “prove” it’s worse, then you can’t prove it’s not. What’s more, there are comments from people who have been on both sides telling you that the abuse is actually worse on the “privileged” side, but you all don’t want to acknowledge it because then you’d have to admit that looking like us wouldn’t solve your problems, and that -yes- we do have problems and experience abuses that you don’t. You’d basically have to admit that there’s “average” privilege, too. If we’re defining privilege as the absence of some negative outcome.
“If men are such visual creatures, then why do they look like that?” 🤣🤣🤣
Point. Blank. Period.
Once, while at a nightclub, a male friend of a friend was several tequila shots in and started pointing out the most hideous men in the club and asking me if I would give them a chance if they approached me.
I of course was like, No!
But then trying to tease him back, I was like..
Would you give a chance to…
-and I literally could not find an ugly woman at the club.
Just a random Friday night.
No special event or specific crowd.
That was one of the first times I started realizing we really are so beautiful in all our different versions and aesthetics.
Meanwhile men.. well, no comment.
this was a good episode it really made me realize how regardless of your privilege women are always gonna be subjected to misogyny. It’s not like you can out run being a women. But I also wanted tot say that the Bible doesn’t say or give the impression that men are perfect. I mean the whole Bible is talking about how everyone including men are not perfect, that’s why Jesus needed to come.
Super insightful! The research you had to put into this is amazing, you’re the real GOAT here. Maybe we can agree that all women experience these downsides but being pretty and attracting more unwanted attention from both the male and female gaze exponentially increases the “downsides of being a woman” which results in creating a new category in the disadvantages of having pretty privileges. I grew up average looking always with a childlike face but not remarkable or a striking beauty. I went about my day with peace and as I grew up I actually got to nurture my inner world and develop a great personality which serves me well until today. As an adult I had access to more so I went through a glow up. And it’s not going from ugly to beautiful it’s going from average to I guess pretty. Plus you add the great/cute personality that I had already nurtured from before + other things like good vibe & energy & unique life story/path = the result is a very magnetic aura. Never in my life I have felt that… Nowadays I cannot walk on the street without people staring, I enter a room and people get quite, I have a chat with a man and their spouse come chasing after them, many people just start conversations out of the blue (this is something I do like) but my social battery gets drained much easily, some women feel threatened while others want to be friends when we really have nothing in common… so you constantly have to filter through the people you want access to you to ensure their reasons align with yours. And surprisingly it’s true you get less approached by single men especially if like me you have the deadly mix of beauty with brain, so that beauty privilege thing is very isolating. Good thing I love my own company and being in circles welcoming of my energy but it was definitely an eye opener and a shock. Plus people who have been insanely pretty all their life when they see you they want to befriend you as in likes attracts likes, but the difference between when you had a glow up and having been born pretty, is that often you develop social skills and personality and character when often their entire personality is being pretty so I don’t fit either with this crowd. I can’t deal with empty shells and I often find them to be mean or dismissive or lacking compassion, I’m a kind person and having to adopt that snobbish detached attitude so “peasants” don’t talk to you for too long when they approach you it’s not me. But I also don’t fit with “average looking” people for whom being in the presence of someone good looking it’s like they are in trance/hypnotized or something. You are objectified so you always have to overshare about your own flaws and insecurities so they can humanize you a bit more and create an actual and real connection. Plus add to the mix people who are consciously or not jealous and envious and the ones who are set on a mission to “humble you” whenever they get a chance… When you enter a room or meet new people, It’s like waking a minefield, you never know what you’re going to get. The list goes on… as much as I understand that it is what the female experience is about, I do think that gets blown out of proportion when you enter the realm of pretty women. Have your own little social experiment. Start where you at and slowly improve yourself, change a few things here and there and that glow up will show you exactly what I mean.
P.s- Clarifying that beauty can take different forms and conventional beauty standards are based on the society and culture one evolves in. It took me a while to understand that I was even perceived as being pretty as I had my glow up and my inner state stayed the same as before. I felt I liked my new look but I was not thinking OMG I’m so fine I’m a showstopper until I saw people’s reactions towards me change. I was then forced to evolve and adapt to meet the social expectations of how a beautiful woman should behave in public and when interacting with others… For many women including me, beauty is manufactured, you get extensions for your hair, you wax, do your makeup, you dress up, you adjust the tone of your voice, your mannerisms…etc. All of that is constructed so it can be gained by all really. My beauty is very much of an aura, an intense energy with unique features that captivate people. I chose not to go back to how I look before my glow up because I love my ethereal look. However, on some days I do dress down a bit or wrap my hair in a scarf to attract less stares and attention. But when your beauty type is more aura based than everything else, even when you pull all these strings my experience is that somehow you still stand out a little. So, does being pretty come with privileges, it does! I get offer gifts, small acts of kindness or courtesy given to me quite often. Does it come with disadvantages, from my experience, it does too. All of of which can be leverage and definitely provides you with access to more social capital. So It’s up to the person to see if they can deal with both sides of the same coin and leverage that or revert back to being average and there’s nothing wrong with that too.
Today I woman I was training at work told me how much she appreciated the positive energy I gave and that it made her positive as well I love that so so so much
i've seen one of those street interviews where they interview what appears to be mostly club-going women and there was this small group, which the interviewer was rating. one of them he rated 10/10 then he rated the others like 4 to 6. it seems like he was expecting them to fight amongst themselves but instead the ones he rated low was all cheering and very supportive of the one he rated 10 and they were all saying, "yes! she's a 10!" he tried to provoke the others by asking the 10, "why are you hanging out with these bunch? is it so you can stand out?" but she was very sweet saying, "no, we're all 10s actually. we're cool not to be 10s in your eyes, because we've been 10 in plenty of others." they knew that he wanted to make them fight for his content or appear affronted and defensive so they were amicable with their response and they were all very sweet with each other. in the end, the interviewer just looked like a defeated creep, but it was good of him to still upload it.
there are some men who just like to see women fight and use it in arguments that we're "emotional" and "shallow" for spending too much time and money on trying to look pretty or being hateful to other girls just out of envy; or sometimes, some men just like to see women fight because, to some of them, it's funny-like how they find icicles being smashed on the ground funny. some of them are just toddlers wearing a cheap man-suit.
I definitely got more weird old guys hitting on me when I was thin. I put on weight and it stopped. It's a real phenomenon.
You were too thin or ??
We just have to be careful tho, because white women (and lighter skin women) get way more sympathy, care, coverage in the media when something bad /good happens to dark skin black women. On top of having way more priviliege with it comes to punishment for bad behaviors.
I'm gonna be real I do think there is a disadvantage when it comes to the frequency of sexual harrassment(especially by strangers) I genuinely hope this doesn't come across as offensive or dismissive, this absolutely doesn't mean in any way shape or form that women in general don't have to deal with this sort of extreme misoginy all the time or that it's something that only affects conventionally attractive women. This being said, since I lost 40 kg and turned into what's considered by a significant amount of people "conventionally attractive", I was harrassed by strangers(touching, grabing, cat calling and cussing even) way more often than before. Like it's on another level, I was still harrassed before, sure, but not at this level, it's still shocking to me and I'm currently still processing everything. Idk, maybe I'm biased because it all started happening recently, maybe I'm just unlucky and it's a coincidence, but yeah, in my experience, men treated me worse, like it's normal to just touch me if they want to...🙃
@@MCE851 fuck, that is truly horrific, I'm so sorry you went through something like that and those people(if you can even call them that) are beyond disgusting😖 tysm for sharing your experience🫂
Naw,guys this video is mad dismissive😭.What about when you get hit on multiple times throughout the day? I get women have common experiences but not all women get cat called at the same frequency.i don't get what this video is trying to prove
@@Rosabear26This video is about dismissing pretty women's struggle by saying they aren't anything special and everyone out there is facing same and most probably worse. So stop whining about it
Uhh as someone who has a major glow up I definitely get sexually assaulted/ harassed way more now than when I was not as conventionally attractive. I also noticed men definitely do not listen to me as much or respect my opinions as much as before.
I do think a lot of these issues are women-specific, but there are legit downsides to being "pretty" in the eyes of society.
But that happens with every woman.
@@Shoreline-ex5sc It happened "more". Can you not read?
@@chainmosses5389 woah someone’s very passionate😂
@@chainmosses5389 let me find out you’re a salma hayek🤣
I was 300 lbs and lost 140 lbs. I felt significantly less safe and more creeped out in a lot more situations in public and at work. (even from family male members🤢) For ✨ME PERSONALLY✨ I have not enjoyed it at all, I much prefer the invisibility being bigger afforded me. ✨PERSONALLY✨but I think it also depends on your personality type, I hate attention in general but especially from males. ✨PERSONALLY✨
Bad side of pretty privilege is other women being jealous of you. They wouldnt be jealous of you if there wasn’t something about you to be jealous of
Exactly!
Nah, I've been bullied by pretty girls and in my mind is "girl you are so pretty"why are you doing this to me?" I think some of them they are just sadistic people that enjoys chaos and make people suffer
@@dalila3398 it's not one or the other, grow up and start using your brian.
Women can be jealous of anything …
@@dalila3398 they do it bc they don't know they're pretty so they see something in you and take it as a threat so they bully you. Or they know they're pretty and still bully you out of spite for being less attractive as them, like Mean Girls movie
Very thorough breakdown of the concept of pretty privilege and tbh I wasn't expecting this to go so deep into it and have some many examples as it did.
Your breakdowns are just amazing and you're really doing your due diligence in your videos!
Love your videos!
Other women may experience it sometimes but it's not on the same scale. There is actually research on this stuff happening to attractive people at a higher rate. People considered conventionally attracted are more commonly take advantage of and targets for manipulative people who want to gain something from them. Even sociopaths look for conventionally attractive partners because it's like trophy to them. I think it's good actually that we finally get to speak about this instead of constantly being told life is on easy mode for us. We also have to prove ourselves harder and aren't taken very seriously.
Word.
source?
True. Just have to look at the predators flocking around adolescent starlets….
@@lunaloveless7234 reminds me of early Meghan Fox interviews. The level of harrassment openly directed at her is vile to watch.
@@sSomeawesomeneSs Start with Savolainen, Brauer, and Ellonen 2020 and then go from there. We are not lying about this. To start with, highly attractive people are five times more likely to experience SA.
Pretty privilege is high concentrate misogyny from both genders. Women in collectives feel like they can rag on you and humble you. Having a lot of male eyes on you gets messy too if you dont watch yourself.
Constantly humbled by men and women alike in various forms. I do not see my average pretty girls go through this as much as I do.
@@ButteredToastandChocolateMilk me too which has lead to severe social anxiety and isolating myself in the house most days. Men have been cruel to me and women not much better!
@@shanicrystal8671I feel you sis. Wish I could say more about it but I feel this space is no longer for me to do so. Not sure that I agree with Elle on this one.
@@shanicrystal8671 there’s a RUclips creator whom touches on this subject that I resonate with way more than this video. I think for now I’m gonna exit this channel. It’s not serving me anymore and more often than not seems to attract a lot of negative people. If you want that other channel let me know!❤️
@@ButteredToastandChocolateMilk I understand you. Heavy on the average pretty, because they think that absolutely gorgeous people don't have downsides.
Normally I’m 100% here for the message but I can’t get behind this one. Until you have a massive glow up and go from being unattractive to, highly sought out, you really just would not get it. The things pretty women go through aren’t just the downsides of being a woman. I would know because when I was overweight and unattractive I didn’t deal with the things I deal with now. The difference has been like night and day. You’re dealing with those downsides of womanhood BECAUSE you are pretty. Because 90% of the things women with pretty privilege complain about did not apply to me on this massive of a scale when I was unattractive. I didn’t have anxiety about going into grocery stores and pumping my own gas before my blow up. Because I might get bothered once or twice a month. Now it’s EVERY time I go out. Women that think it’s the same thing other women go through need to learn to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. Being the beauty standard is only fun when you enjoy the attention. When you’re introverted and have bad social anxiety it’s a new type of hell.
I totally agree with you about the social anxiety and introversion. I think being beautiful is better for extraverted women who like to talk to people and have more attention on them.
@@privateaccount1899 so because something never happens to you when you was unattractive means that those things don’t happen to unattractive women?
@@xxshanxx4290 no, stop trying to be obtuse. Pretty ppl are disproportionately affected.
@@gg_kinz by how much?
@@gg_kinz what are the statistics to prove this for real?
this video really helped me understand. thank you. i have always felt othered but there are plenty of reasons for that, we mostly experience the same misogyny at different levels and degrees, and i feel a bit silly for not totally getting that. ive just wanted to be seen for who i was inside for so long, i was blinded to things like opportunites, minor interactions, and support being part of the halo effect. i was homeless for a long time and in that period i lost my looks for a while. looking back, i see where the pretty privilege was lost. that is one thing to remember - pretty privilege is temporary, misogyny might be forever. we should have eachothers backs over dividing.
Girl you helped me so much. I used to be so insecure about myself. I’m 16 and have never dated before. Men would always come up to me and would never follow up. Me personally I look great but the experiences I faced made me think other wise and social media affected me negatively. You made me learn how to love myself, stop comparing myself to others women and be fine with being alone. My time will come and me being in my senior year is better. I was always alone in highschool and you got me through so tysm girlie !
It bothers me when ppl believe being “stalked, harassed, and/or assaulted” and other internal issues based on their looks is just a struggle only pretty women have and that women who aren’t as attractive understand it. Or even when they are is awareness that “less attractive” women also relate to the struggle of mistreatment, they are people who think that them not being as pretty automatically makes it valid for them to get mistreated cause “it’s obviously because they are ugly”. It’s surprising how much people actually have either of these beliefs. It’s not always about looks.
I’ve heard people just think that only attractive women get sa The other average women can’t relate to which is simply disgusting
@@Bri-rw7ikexactly. anyone regardless of looks can get sa’ed. also something else that bothers me is that people that say that see sa as a “privilege”
Gorgeous women are stalked and harassed more. Period.
I have to disagree with you on this one, Elle. As a former model who has experienced massive fluctuations in weight, I can absolutely assure you that this isn’t all explained away by run of the mill misogyny. The more beautiful I am perceived to be, the more abuse I experience because of it; from men and women alike. Do you think the predators are more likely to go for the most or least attractive prey? Do you think women are more threatened by weak or fierce competition? To deny that we experience the effects of jealousy and misogyny at much higher levels than more unattractive people is honestly tantamount to gaslighting. I could write a book on all of the horrible things I’ve experienced that have been direct manifestations of the way that I look, and most “normal” looking women’s experiences wouldn’t come close. This “common abuse” that you speak of multiplies exponentially the more beautiful you are, and that needs to be acknowledged. If anything, videos like this only contribute to our continued othering and isolation by other women because it makes it seem like we’re delusional, blind, or bragging instead of seeking help and understanding from, and solidarity with, other women - something we’re consistently denied.
🤍
You wouldn't even be able to work as a model at all if you were not beautiful. Beauty attracts attention, which is why you were hired. The attention can be good or bad, so pretty people HAVE to have stronger filters when interacting with people. Also, people prey on "ugly" people because they know that if a victim speaks up, nobody will believe them.
Many predators go after people they see as easy prey. Also unattractive people could probably write 3 whole books. Of course individual expirence is different from general expirences
I have to disagree. Predators will go after anyone they believe to be easier tagerts. It doesn't matter if you're super attractive or not. There are countless storeis of below average woman getting attacked for their looks. What you and many other women had experienced is just the product of living in a patriarchal society. You can't claim that women who aren't as pretty as you haven't had experiences just as bad as yours. You're blatantly disregarding others' women's experiences. You can also share your personal experiences without trying to one up other women. This isn't the oppression olympics.
@@unicorntears6179 Reading comprehension really is at an all time low these days. I did not say, nor has anyone else, that unattractive women don’t have these experiences. What we’re saying is that we have these experiences on steroids. Come talk to me when you can’t even make it through a shopping trip without being stalked and followed to your car.
"is the visual creature in the room with us?" - manifestelle 😂🎉❤
The fact that they consider those "downsides" talks about the bright side of pretty privilege tbh...
It’s kinda crazy that we are really having this topic discussed at all. I don’t even think I’m all that, and yet I receive far far more smechual harassment than most other women. It’s been commented on by anyone that has even witnessed my life, it’s not even just my interpretation. I get no benefits, just the downsides, and those ARE worse than not having this “privilege”. I’ve been told by several that they envy the SA I’ve been through bc at least that means I’m pretty. Like it or not, being “pretty” is more of a curse for SOME of us, that shouldn’t be up for debate. Not all of us have the other legs up that unlocks that privilege. It’s not just “regular” sexism. Everyone experiences different facets of it.
How is that a down side to pretty privilege?
@@sunfeatherX3 people who are denying this are just one of the insecure/hadn't seen much. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Just know that just because the people invalidating the downsides have a chance to vocally dismiss it, doesn't mean that it's true. And the reply above me👆 very insensitive.
@@DigimonOmobasuyiwow i found u in another thread dismissing others experience
As a woman with pretty privilege the only downside I face is being secretly or openly hated by other women who can't help themselves with jealousy. Even with my girlfriends I often feel like I'm not allowed to complain or just vent about my problems, no matter what these problems are about. Instead of support I receive a passive aggressive reaction that makes me feel even worse. It also works vise versa when I want to be supportive but get that 'you'll never understand' thing. It's frustrating.
Sounds like you both have terrible friends and don’t know how to set appropriate boundaries around the people you bring into your life and label “friends”
Those aren’t friends those are NPCs-raise your standards and you won’t have to complain to the internet that your friendships suck
@@Wee_Catalyst one day internet will be a nicer place without toxicity but not today, I guess.
I got u sis 🫂
The friends , The buddies, The bffsvi grew up with all suddenly started cropping me out of our group pictures. Not inviting me in their birthdays and hang out when i used to be the one to plan all this back in the days. At some point they kinda stopped talking with me but they continued to slut shame me behind my back and gossiping about my family situation And all this because i kinda had a glow up. It felt horrible to hear those stories about my family which i once shared with my friends. I felt so betrayed and wronged. Now days though I'm healed i never say anything too personal to any of my friends or talk about my grievances. And i feel ahole for that because they share their stories. I'm only one not sharing much. I think I'm not totally healed. I should do more. But still i feel a bit more understood by seeing your comment. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels the need not to talk much about my problems. Though my current friends aren't at all like that but i still fear they would react like your friends
There are very real downsides to pretty privilege. To deny their existence is invalidating and leans toward misogynistic ideals within itself. Off the top of my head, here are a few. Yes it's a bit long but this is an actual conversation that needs to be had.
1. Female friends downplay self-esteem issues that you have because they view you as more attractive than themselves. Thus self-esteem issues don't exist for you and you're "just fishing for compliments."
2. Female friends expect you to devote the majority of your time to assisting them in physical self improvement. This also applies to financial discrepancies.
3. You are often the butt of jokes because it is assumed that you get complimented so much that it doesn't bother you.
4. Women greatly hesitate to befriend you because they see you as a threat to their relationship. This can be the case if you didn't even know they had a boyfriend or have never seen their boyfriend.
5. Other women join in rumors about you or you are slut shamed by other heterosexual women. This is often baseless. I personally have been slut shamed by girls my age and grown women since the age of 9 just based upon how my body and face look. I had my first kiss at the age of 20.
All of these are very real experiences that a lot of women have. We can say that they learned it from misogyny but that also takes away accountability that women should have. Not every man is misogynistic, not every father has raised their daughter to be that way. Men run society, but men don't control how women treat other women. Men can only run a competition if women choose to participate in the competition. This viewpoint is a bit unsettling from someone who has made videos in the past being so supportive of women and their experiences. I also think we would be remiss to notice that Manifestelle, while very beautiful by American standards and in my personal opinion, would not be a 10/10 in her culture standards. So I think that someone who is a knockout by Asian standards should give this viewpoint that is opposing the feelings and experiences of women en masse.
💯💯💯💯💯
all of these can be balled into one, jealousy and envy from others.
@@chiyukuwill most experiences can be bald into a small handful of umbrellas. However, I specifically focused on the negativity coming from other women. These are just a few real life experiences that I have lived and I have heard every conventionally attractive woman I come into contact with experience.
Coming from so called pretty girl there is no pretty privilege if you don't center man in your lives 🤷♀️
as a pretty woman, in my experience making and keeping friends with other women is hard due to jealousy - there is a lot of fakeness, backstabbing, reputation-smearing, general cruelty, and being held to impossible standards i.e. making just one mistake is not acceptable.
i too have been jealous and not particularly wanted to be mates w my boy's ex love interest BECAUSE she was so pretty - but i was fine w being mates w another who was, imo, less attractive.
there are definitely downsides to being pretty, and i dont like how these struggles get dismissed under the guise of "shut up because ur pretty". however, it is undeniable that unattractive people have less opportunities and are treated poorly due to their looks. so given the choice i would definitely choose to be pretty over ugly.
you can be unhappy with the downsides of being pretty, and should be allowed to talk about them and be taken seriously. but it is, as in all cases, important to be aware of where you do indeed have certain privileges. pretty people do NOT have it worse than unattractive people. infact, i would say people who aren't pretty definitely have it 'worse' in most cases. but why is it always a competition? because it bloody shouldn't be.
The dark side is what happened to me yesterday. I went to see an apt but the guy who was renting it out started looking at me with that glazed over expression on his face. Then he insisted on giving me a creepy "hug" and feeling my boobs with his chest. He didn't want me to leave when the appointment was over and kept on making conversation about things that didn't really matter for the apt. Now I can't rent the place because he lives on the premises and is both the landlord and super. So now I can't have a cheap apartment that is available, I have to pay the "pink tax" so I can keep men away from me. The apartment is also in the middle of town and is visible from the road, that's bad. I have to have an apt that is hidden so I don't attract random men to stare at me when I step outside my door and come hang around hoping to see me in the area. It's not ok.
It's not cool when the person you are paying expects even more. Being hit on by a landlord is not fun and you feel as if you have to move to be safe.
Thiiis!! Girl been there, naively went along with it and had the most harassing experience of my life from an old landlord AND his son who was the maintenance guy. (They both also lived in other units on the premises)
Literally would make any excuse to work on or in my apartment. The passing snarky and inappropriate comments.
The turning in my stomach to have to come home to a place where the son and his broski would hover around
The real disgusting kicker and my que to really get tf out is when my underwear started going missing- literally my worn, in the dirty clothes, underwear…
I was so trusting and unaware at 20
Sorry to hear that. That’s not unique to being pretty love - it’s the dark side to being a woman. Are we slow to the point?
That's horrible and terrifying. I don't think it's necessarily about one being better or easier than the other, it's about how you want to use things to your advantage. Being average or below-average looking makes you invisible which can be detrimental emotionally and financially but invisibility can also mean safety. Being above average makes you more of a Target which decreases your safety but increases your financial and social credibility. How pretty could be used to your advantage though would be that statistically people who are considered more attractive earn more money, so you being pretty increases your ability to pay and be approved for whatever apartment you want. Also being pretty increases your ability to be with a man of means or get a "sponsor" who would be more willing to pay your bills for you putting even more money in your pocket.
@@JO-fk5ho yeah I'm trying to figure out if they don't realize this. Even if you're a below average woman, you're gonna be harassed at some point. Probably a good number of times, really. As a woman who's been on the other side growing up, pretty privilege makes everything better(not great, but better). Weirdly, I notice the biggest difference with the way women treat me than men -- they assume I'm more competent at work just becuase my skin is now clear and I dress better🤔 On some level, all of us know being 'pretty' is the better deal. Otherwise, the people who whine about the ""downsides"" could just make sure they always look as ugly as possible. There's a very small percentage of humans who are so gorgeous that they can't do anything about it. It is the definition of humble brag, I swear😂😂😂
And I don't think that ugly privilege is a thing either, because it's literally just the respect that women should be getting. It's just the respect that people show the average man.
Omg I’m so sad with humanity- I was the Eurocentric standard of beauty my whole life, blonde, blue eyes, thin but curves etc (which tbh is gross that this is the main standard by I digress). But for a year from 2022-2023 I became obese due to multiple factors. The way I was treated by women but especially men was outrageously awful. Nobody held the door for me, no one seemed interested in holding a conversation, even had a guy leave a conversation mid through. Women not really wanting to be friends. I felt invisible because no one would look at me, which in a way I liked. Not that bigger women don’t get harassed, I was barely creeped on by men. Then all of a sudden when I lost the first 25lbs, women would come up to me even to just ask for directions, I had a dude follow me around in stores (ew), and people smiled and looked at me again. It’s even different not as I lost another 25lbs and 5lbs from technically being of healthy weight. I get that I wasn’t as attractive but being treated that way was gross. Now I’m so pessimistic and believe many kind favors are just because of how I look, not from good will :(
It's usually perceived that being very obese means one doesn't care about one's health issue and one eats craps, which could be false. However, when people get sick, they lose a lot of weight too. Just human nature. I was called ugly when I was a teenager. The HS dude which I hated, told me he didn't know I was growing up "this pretty". This was a sarcasm to me, but according to him I supposed to take it as a compliment, lol. I never like that dude at all.
Just love yourself and stay healthy. Their behaviors speak more for them and not you.
The thing you guys don’t realise is the downsides of pretty privilege and mistreatment associated with it comes from women THEMSELVES towards pretty women it comes in the form of ( jealousy, smear campaigns, exclusion..etc)
Perfect time! This is my Podcast
I really wish I were pretty and had pretty privilege 😢💔
@@KingDeadMan Tried to do the rewrite the brain thing / forcing the confidence and it only led to a friend criticize my appearance so hard that I'm still crushed. It just doesn't work, you're either pretty or not.
There's a phase in my life when I stopped caring about how I look beyond being neat and tidy and did what I wanted to do. Joined what I wanted to join. And people started talking to me. Zero to little mention on looks. Works best if you surround yourself with a new crowd though. I do not care for people who criticise my look unless it's a problem on the neat and tidy part.
But first you need to stop thinking about being ugly or pretty. You deserve a good life, same as all the good people in the world.
You wanna be Medusa?
You wish to be Medusa?
Claim it. Be your own beauty standard. That's what I do and I don't consider myself conventionally attractive. I do know that I am attractive though
Tysm for making this video. This is a constant topic on Twitter. It's always hoards of average looking women complaining about the "downsides" of pretty privilege. When told they're experiencing misogyny like every other woman, they lash out and call everyone jealous. I get second-hand embarrassment every time.
Ikr? I've rarely seen people who are actually admired for their looks go on a long rant of how “everyone around them is just soooo jealousss”
Fr I saw the pic of one of these girls and they are average (I am average and proud)
On TikTok too
@@zippy3253Then check out the comment section in this video some more-they are among us; they are everywhere and they won’t stop typing 😂
There are many downsides. It makes people feel threatened and they try to humble you for no reasons
Words exactly and you've to assure other girls that you're not a threat or a man stealer plus you're lusted over and not loved.
Didn't you just STATE the reason?
That people feel threatened.
Because let's be honest they ARE THREATENED.
I agree. I’ve said that being super beautiful gets more attention on you. People notice you. Sometimes it’s good (jobs, halo effect etc), but sometimes it’s not (stalkers and other unsavory male fixations, women threatened by you). It’s a matter of whether the good outweighs the bad. IMO under patriarchy, the real privilege is invisible privilege
I was surprised Elle didn’t point that out. In the past she has talked about immediately being hated on by other women for walking into a room. I would say that is a downside because it leads to ostracism and isolation, thus impacting a woman’s ability to build a community and make connections.
This is literally my experience as a woman who is smart. Literally every single person tried
To humble me because my brainpower is somehow threatening. It is the fact that we are women that we get shit upon. There are no downsides to pretty privilege at all.
People are more likely to lie about who they are in order to ‘bag’ a pretty woman. YES this happens to all woman, but being pretty puts an extra target on your back. Wish you would have referenced this in your video.
I’m saying this as someone who didn’t experience PP until after a plastic surgery procedure. There are more advantages because people treat you better, but there are downsides and it’s kinda disingenuous not to acknowledge that.
as someone conventionally pretty, trust me, smiling and flirting my way out of things have worked for me, when my friends claim this normally wouldn't have happened with them. So I don't know what exactly are the downsides of pretty priviledge
Jealousy is the only downside. Its actually comes from your closest friends. But the privilage that comes with being pretty outweighs anything else. I say that as someone who has been pretty but then had a "glow down". I was a way better looking child and teenager than as an adult . Also
gained alot of weight during quarantine and got many acne. The difference between how people treat you is crazy. I am not talking about dating, thats not a privilege , its just perferences. But like how people and strangers around you treat you changes so much. I always thought people were nice and helpful to each other until i got "ugly". Now that i have lost some weight and my acne are mostly gone. Strangers are again nice.
I got bullied heavily in school I noticed the difference immediately after dropping weight and going back to the same school I was bullied at. I WAS LEFT ALONE. Not complely but far way better than I used to I was able to sit at a lunch table by my self it was rear to have bad days where kids pick on me. The only thing was that GIRLS. The girls who would tell the guys to leave me alone stared being mean and the guys would defend meeeeee😣 it was shocking.
But if we say that the root cause of pretty people being treated differently and that causing them benefits in some areas and the alleged drawbacks in other areas is simply misogyny. Then, isn't people treating women badly when they are thought of as ugly or not considered pretty is also coming mainly from misogyny?
What I mean mean to say is a lot of problems branch out of the root, that is misogyny, for example, toxic boy moms, pick me behaviours, etc. But we can discuss about them individually and acknowledging the nuances and small different ways it comes out in the society. I completely acknowledge the halo effect and the benefits of having pretty privilege but saying there are not downsides to anything seems a very no-nuance approach (in Elle's words.😅)
I have always been a bright student throughout my life. Didn't pay attention to how I looked in school, out of pure choice and got in to a really good science research institute and my college experience was completely different just because i started paying attention on how I looked and started working on it. Going from teachers pet to the harsh judgement from profs at college was an eye opener. From my personal experience, people judge you based on looks and think and treat you both good and bad in terms of different criterias.
I’m telling you, when I look like ish men LEAVE ME ALONE. When I pretty it up, they come out of the woodwork and not to bring anything good. Never does anything good come from any man in my 50 years of experience.
Pretty never helped me. The best space is mid. Low to mid.
I can change my image on a wide range. I can look really bad or really good. I poured a ton of resources into my looks - hair extensions, lashes, weight loss, tan, toned & life got way worse. Women got way nastier.
I did this glow up from getting hired to leaving a female dominated company. They loved me when I was chubby and uglier, but they got visibly upset as I got prettier. They were all married. It was ridiculous. Women are horrific.
Now I cover everything, with a scarf, dress specifically to avert the male gaze & attention. I wear glasses and baggy dresses. I do not show expected “western women” kindness to men and most women in public. I ignore the f out of them when they try to get me to do any unpaid labor, including smiling at their nasty selves.
I have a business that does not depend on my beauty & that does not take me away from my kids throughout the day. When I network, we glam it up but I stick with women only networking groups for the most part. Because it is true, for the marketing part of the job, beauty matters. I just know when to use it and when to close it up for maximum power. The disgusting male neighbors in my apartment complex are terrified of me & this is wonderful.
I have a theory that some kind of subconscious signaling happens when you *can* use pretty privilege but do not use it. I have skinny privilege & a body better than most 25 year olds including myself at 25. But when a woman at my age isn’t using every available way to signal her desire for approval - people get confused. Confusion often forces respect because of the American socialization to not stare. So when I go out in baggy dresses and head scarves & big sunglasses, they accidentally show respect 😂 the super aggressive men who do get upset will stare. And now you know who your biggest threats are. Playing with this is very empowering and educational.
Only evil/immature/insecure women fall for the divide a conquer strategy.
The irony of this comment 😂
Isn’t this not a divide and conquer comment in itself?
It’s not actually. It’s self-defense.
@@Holly-xq4ej you're defending yourself against yourself then
@@bootscooty Are you finished? Let the adults talk.
I'm a blonde girl with blue eyes who is tall, has a straight nose and skinny. So I fit the beauty standarts. And I have to admit that pretty privilege exists and doesn't have any downsides.
Let me ask you are u too skinny like with flat bbs huh i'm sorry i want to ask this because I'm pretty and skinny with no bbs and people tell me to put on some weight??
Watch Danial Mackler "Analyse about Downside of pretty privilege. Psychiatrists explain about downside. It is not Halo effect.
The movie “Malena” every one? Do you remember how well portrayed was the misogyny of society to beautiful women? That poor character suffer at the hands of both men and women until they broke her..
I saw that. What a horrible movie.
The end was CRAZY too, everyone just pretended nothing happened 💀
@@Nanancay yep, once they humbled her and drove her crazy, they scratched their itch and were now done with her. They’ll never do that to me though. I’m not dealing with American misogyny and bloodthirsty “SJWs” out to get revenge on anyone who has more than them. I work from home and heavily screen my friendship group. I don’t allow any talk of “Privelige” in my circle, everyone has seen me get abused and lose work over the situation so they know not to say stupid stuff around me.