I like the prices being higher because it means you don't have to work with as much cargo (maybe an amount you may actually hand load). It's just the profit margins that need to be worked out.
@First_Chapter agreed. I can't remember the last time a cargo elevator at a sell point actually worked. I've bagged the game at this point, not putting another dollar into it.
Makes sense, good to see the commodities have real value instead of just a few of them. Hopefully will be useful for crafting to drive actual player trading.
Agree with much of the sentiment here - there should be incentives to transport the shit stuff like waste , also makes trading more viable with smaller holds. however with the greatly increased risk that you might be pirated for scrap now ! and the ever real possibility of game crash - there needs to be some insurance mechanic introduced. it should take time to grind up the ship tiers - so there needs to be plenty of incentive for people to make decent money whatever their ship size is
They will adjust everything multiple times moving forward from 4.0 Live. There'll be a lot of .x updates and everything will even out to a certain extent. Not everyone will be happy with whatever they come up with but that's just the way it is. They have to have a marketable product for 1.0 so the aim will be to have an acceptable balance.
I agree it will change many times I hope they don’t kill the trading in favour or missions. Missions shouldn’t pay more when risk of trading falls on the player, they should expect more than a company pays for you hauling it without risk to the player
The biggest issue I have is still piracy. there isn’t enough profit in smaller commodity size deliveries to invest in protection whilst carrying it out. If they want to encourage both game plays you need to balance it out and make the game more immersive I.e. traders with mercenary protection.
@ exactly. I don’t envy the task for them balancing it all, and its ease to moan about it, but that said as and when they do get it right it’s going to make an even greater gameplay loop
I mean, if cost goes up 10x but profits go up 5x, I'm fine with that. (these arent the actual values, just making a point). I couldnt imagine complaining about 1,500,000 profit for hauling SCRAP...
i wonder how much the prices of commodities differ between systems. I'd imagine drugs are a bit cheaper in pyro than stanton, and refined goods being more desired in pyro than in stanton where theyre produced
For me a big problem is that they take your money at purchasing rather than after taking possession of the cargo, I've lost millions because the cargo deck never answered my hails after I purchased the cargo. I've entered IC reports on it. Have thay fixed that yet?
I was having an issue with it yesterday I had to keep trying I also hailed the main Atc also and just did that a few times and then it finally kicked in
Have you tried Hull C trading in 4.0? In the latest patch you can’t really trade in the Hull C. Major issues with calling the Cargo ATC. Has that been resolved in 4.0?
@ thanks for the feedback. Mmmmm that doesn’t sound promising. That’s the same as is 3.24.3. I was hoping they’d fixed that. Long way to go to not get paid unless they fix it. I’ve found that it doesn’t always work and sometimes you just can’t get the stuff loaded.
Horrible idea to disincentivize small cargo runners by making light and medium freight hauling have such small margins for so much risk. And to risk that much in a game that still sees bug that kill ships, from stealth asteroids, server crashes on the regular, to cargo elevators bugging out and even inventory glitches that don't allow you to even sell you cargo. Way too early to kill margins that hard and jack up upfront costs to risk. There is balance, then there is gutting a gameplay loop.
I hope it’s just testing and it balances out better, we put cash up front, there is no point for small margins when we can do missions and get paid more with no risk
@@NoobsGamingSC It's just CIG's way of pushing everyone to do their cargo missions, rather than freelancing. Given the choice, I will still take the risk, and freelance my own loads. I don't like missions.
CIG has apparently decided that they want all of the space truckers to do THEIR missions, rather than freelance your cargo loads. The freedom to choose exactly what I haul, and to where, is what makes the game interesting to me.. I'll continue to take the risk.
What you don't realize is that it will all change from day to day, depending upon the real people player economy, what you are looking at now is fake , only exist so we have something to play with
@@NoobsGamingSC Absolutely. All cargo should have some level of profitability balanced against availability. Give small cargo ships higher return per SCU, but on items with much lower availability, larger ships should be focusing on high availabilty but lower returns per SCU. Distance runs should also yield better returns over short runs, etc.
I haven't done cargo running for a very long time. But earning 10 TIMES your investment is stupid! No wonder why people were running around with billions of credits! 25%-35% is more reasonable. Maybe 50% for very long trips or for commodities with low quantities. (AKA stuff people with a small cargo ship can do to & still make a decent profit)
@@NoobsGamingSC This wont be the first. There will be MANY more adjustments to economy because this stuff directly affects their sales via ships and haulers. Right now its too easy to get into a "end game" hauler and then make bloated amounts of money. So they will tune it to the point where its not worth a casual players time to do...which will make me angry... The issue of those who have time to grind, and casusals is a game issue that I have yet to see really solved well...sadly this will become another victim of it...lest everyone becomes billionaires (and in eve online they are, including myself...but nobody seems to care in that game..)
The problem is, haulers take the risk if it becomes more profitable to haul cargo in missions with no risk, then the off your own back dies out. We need to end the millions per run maybe u led you have a big ship and crew to pay, but not kill it so that there is no point in doing it
They need to balance the cargo trading, with the cargo missions (waste half an hour of your time to earn 20k) or the box missions (waste half an hour of your time to earn 10k or less). Right now theres no way for the newbie / poor starter person to earn decent money with cargo which is moronic as you want all your industries to be accessible to newbies.
@@NoobsGamingSC I do I think missions are the way to go for n00b gamers. Trading is later down the line when you got a bigger ship and quite a few mil in the bank and are happy to risk that money.
why not? CIG has proven it has little to no idea how their bombastic decisions effect their players - and do not care so long as it has no large effect on ship sales...
We all have to remember that this falls in line with what they wanted the economy to evolve into. You're changing the buy-in prices and the value of the products were transporting so even smaller ships have a chance to make some sort of profit.
The issue with cargo for me is the incredibly high risk nature of it. You can easily lose months of work if the server disconnects you mid trip or anything else that separates you from your vehicle. I also think auto loading should be an option in most places. I’m under the impression that small mining outposts don’t have it. I haven’t played since 3.24.
@NoobsGamingSC indeed. But it's nice that buy-ins and payouts are increasing relative to their old rates. Imagine as a starter, trying to trade with 8scu ships. Only thing worthwhile before would be... Gold? RMC? But at least increasing bulk rates of more items will pump life into economy. Not just sticking to 1 to 5 items for profit but much more.
@@BC-vv3ot A very damn solid good point. So the way the game works, if the server fails while you're in transit with your goods, You have 2 levels of protection. And mid you, this works. 1. If you get a 30k on your end, your character/ship will remain in the game and won't stream out until about 5 to 10 minutes. In the event that it streams out, your ship and character are relocated back to the last place of origin where you use ATC. This includes any cargo that the ship was carrying. 2. If it was a server side 30k, you'll immediately be streamed out to the last location you left with your cargo. Your cargo doesn't just go away anymore. The harder part was making sure the Hull C with cargo spindles open, would RELIABLY spawn at the docking ports instead of in a hangar resulting in a bad day. lol. BUT nonetheless, persistence allows us to keep our cargo now. But if you think about it... merchanting, trading... is a VERY high right and VERY high reward way of life. This is why merchants (irl) fail miserably with poor planning and bad luck or become the magnates of their world. It's a fast path to wealth but comes and great self risk. This should be accessible to all sizes of ships and not just the giant barges like the Hull C. So with that, I'm 100% behind what they're doing.
Trading is DEAD - CIG determined to make the game unrewarding and a huge grind - who wants to stump up 7million to make 400k??? thats just nuts from a risk reward point of view.
Dont agree with anyone thinking its too hard to make money as is. Sorry but its way too easy to make money. They need to think longevity. And i should not be able to come into a fresh wipe and make 3-5 mill in one week. I think they need to place more value on money and death of a space man to make actione. Whether its trading or combat require some forethought...
I think for the game in alpha, the ship prices shouldnt be as high as they are in the first place. Yeah its not too hard to grind for money but it still does take a while to buy ships costing 10+ million. And for the people who only have a starter ship like mustang or whatever, its not that easy, its usually the people who actually have a good starter ship who complain that its so easy to make money and they love wipes.
![Cargo Trading with a Hull C - Stanton to Pyro | Star Citizen [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iL1i1L2FU_0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Cargo Trading with a Hull C - Stanton to Pyro | Star Citizen [4K]](/img/tr.png)
I like the prices being higher because it means you don't have to work with as much cargo (maybe an amount you may actually hand load). It's just the profit margins that need to be worked out.
Yes, it has to be more than the equivalent in cargo missions so there is a reward for the risk of putting in your own money
The issues with trading is that there's no way to insure the cargo and game crashes are still 'a thing'.
Yes we take more risk and if it ends up missions pay better with no risk, then people won’t play the off your own back loop
@@NoobsGamingSC Pretty sure they understand that. For me, OP's point still stands.
@First_Chapter agreed. I can't remember the last time a cargo elevator at a sell point actually worked. I've bagged the game at this point, not putting another dollar into it.
Makes sense, good to see the commodities have real value instead of just a few of them. Hopefully will be useful for crafting to drive actual player trading.
I hope they do balance them all
Agree with much of the sentiment here - there should be incentives to transport the shit stuff like waste , also makes trading more viable with smaller holds. however with the greatly increased risk that you might be pirated for scrap now ! and the ever real possibility of game crash - there needs to be some insurance mechanic introduced. it should take time to grind up the ship tiers - so there needs to be plenty of incentive for people to make decent money whatever their ship size is
They will adjust everything multiple times moving forward from 4.0 Live. There'll be a lot of .x updates and everything will even out to a certain extent. Not everyone will be happy with whatever they come up with but that's just the way it is. They have to have a marketable product for 1.0 so the aim will be to have an acceptable balance.
I agree it will change many times I hope they don’t kill the trading in favour or missions. Missions shouldn’t pay more when risk of trading falls on the player, they should expect more than a company pays for you hauling it without risk to the player
@@NoobsGamingSC that's true 💯
Count on me to find out I've been doing it wrong just weeks before a full wipe.
The biggest issue I have is still piracy. there isn’t enough profit in smaller commodity size deliveries to invest in protection whilst carrying it out. If they want to encourage both game plays you need to balance it out and make the game more immersive I.e. traders with mercenary protection.
Yes I agree and if they end up making missions more profitable then people won’t do it off their own back which we need for a good economy to work
@ exactly. I don’t envy the task for them balancing it all, and its ease to moan about it, but that said as and when they do get it right it’s going to make an even greater gameplay loop
I mean, if cost goes up 10x but profits go up 5x, I'm fine with that. (these arent the actual values, just making a point). I couldnt imagine complaining about 1,500,000 profit for hauling SCRAP...
Yes I hope the balance is good in the end and the missions are more of a step up to trading rather than a replacement
i wonder how much the prices of commodities differ between systems. I'd imagine drugs are a bit cheaper in pyro than stanton, and refined goods being more desired in pyro than in stanton where theyre produced
For me a big problem is that they take your money at purchasing rather than after taking possession of the cargo, I've lost millions because the cargo deck never answered my hails after I purchased the cargo. I've entered IC reports on it. Have thay fixed that yet?
I was having an issue with it yesterday I had to keep trying I also hailed the main Atc also and just did that a few times and then it finally kicked in
Have you tried Hull C trading in 4.0? In the latest patch you can’t really trade in the Hull C. Major issues with calling the Cargo ATC. Has that been resolved in 4.0?
I had to call Atc cargo a couple times I even tried calling g normal Atc a couple times then the cargo one worked it took about 3 mins to go through
@ thanks for the feedback. Mmmmm that doesn’t sound promising. That’s the same as is 3.24.3. I was hoping they’d fixed that. Long way to go to not get paid unless they fix it. I’ve found that it doesn’t always work and sometimes you just can’t get the stuff loaded.
Horrible idea to disincentivize small cargo runners by making light and medium freight hauling have such small margins for so much risk.
And to risk that much in a game that still sees bug that kill ships, from stealth asteroids, server crashes on the regular, to cargo elevators bugging out and even inventory glitches that don't allow you to even sell you cargo. Way too early to kill margins that hard and jack up upfront costs to risk.
There is balance, then there is gutting a gameplay loop.
I hope it’s just testing and it balances out better, we put cash up front, there is no point for small margins when we can do missions and get paid more with no risk
you can haul contracted materials for decent revenue. You don't loose money if something negative happens
@@NoobsGamingSC It's just CIG's way of pushing everyone to do their cargo missions, rather than freelancing.
Given the choice, I will still take the risk, and freelance my own loads. I don't like missions.
Well the buy price was wrong on the website, perhaps the sell price in game is different from the website as well?
No I put them up on screen showing the sell price over at pyro a few mins in.
CIG has apparently decided that they want all of the space truckers to do THEIR missions, rather than freelance your cargo loads.
The freedom to choose exactly what I haul, and to where, is what makes the game interesting to me.. I'll continue to take the risk.
Could have honestly sworn your opening line said "NUDE GAMERS". -LOL
lol only in the summer when it’s warm
That's the OF page 😂
It makes hauling missions more profitable for pirates also. 👀
Your looking at ptu Vs pu prices. Wait and see.
Defo going to keep an eye on it I don’t see why they would change the ptu prices though
CIG seems to be basing the in game economy on the RL economy, ignoring the fact the RL economy is broken and F'd.
I hope they don’t favour missions rather than person trading where a player takes the risk, they should be rewarded for that
At these margins how are you supposed to hire an escort for your Hull C runs? Fox THAT and everything should then fall Iine.
I’m not sure how it will pan out in the end maybe they want to push more for missions rather than off your own back
just balancing, and you will need large funds to fill a hull C, it is a large ship
Yes, massive price changes of 1k per unit will hurt to begin with but defo we will get used to it
Is is good information. The way it was could not sustain the future economy.
Yes I hope it’s a good balance
What you don't realize is that it will all change from day to day, depending upon the real people player economy, what you are looking at now is fake , only exist so we have something to play with
Some welcome changes. The profits we could make were pretty insane and trivialized the economy pretty quickly.
I hope they do a good balance they also need to make is so all cargo has worth rather than a select few items
@@NoobsGamingSC Absolutely. All cargo should have some level of profitability balanced against availability. Give small cargo ships higher return per SCU, but on items with much lower availability, larger ships should be focusing on high availabilty but lower returns per SCU. Distance runs should also yield better returns over short runs, etc.
I haven't done cargo running for a very long time. But earning 10 TIMES your investment is stupid! No wonder why people were running around with billions of credits! 25%-35% is more reasonable. Maybe 50% for very long trips or for commodities with low quantities. (AKA stuff people with a small cargo ship can do to & still make a decent profit)
Yes I do agree the big 10x profits was too much I hope they don’t kill it off in favour of cargo missions
@@NoobsGamingSC This wont be the first. There will be MANY more adjustments to economy because this stuff directly affects their sales via ships and haulers. Right now its too easy to get into a "end game" hauler and then make bloated amounts of money. So they will tune it to the point where its not worth a casual players time to do...which will make me angry... The issue of those who have time to grind, and casusals is a game issue that I have yet to see really solved well...sadly this will become another victim of it...lest everyone becomes billionaires (and in eve online they are, including myself...but nobody seems to care in that game..)
Good. I'm sick of get rich quick haulers. Work for your credits.
The problem is, haulers take the risk if it becomes more profitable to haul cargo in missions with no risk, then the off your own back dies out. We need to end the millions per run maybe u led you have a big ship and crew to pay, but not kill it so that there is no point in doing it
They need to balance the cargo trading, with the cargo missions (waste half an hour of your time to earn 20k) or the box missions (waste half an hour of your time to earn 10k or less). Right now theres no way for the newbie / poor starter person to earn decent money with cargo which is moronic as you want all your industries to be accessible to newbies.
Makes sense when you are trying to push people to buy gear and ships for real money
I hope they don’t favour missions over off your own back trading
@@NoobsGamingSC I do I think missions are the way to go for n00b gamers. Trading is later down the line when you got a bigger ship and quite a few mil in the bank and are happy to risk that money.
@@RoninX33 True were Citizens are screwing ourselves over by falling for it.
Cig have no idea what they are doing.
Game crashing will be a thing of the past, when the game comes online
Not a great idea if you are trying to start an economy.
I wonder if they are pushing missions to be the starter and then off your own back later when you have funds
why not? CIG has proven it has little to no idea how their bombastic decisions effect their players - and do not care so long as it has no large effect on ship sales...
This is where you do not go trading by yourselves. You hire escorts.
Not if they cut the profit margins
yo-yo-YO worst inTRO on the toobz. I barely get by it, but the rest of the video is so good I stay sometimes.
Thank you for sticking in there,
JUST PIRATE OTHER PLAYERS , PROBLEM SOLVED
I’d end up getting Pierre’s by them if I tried
We all have to remember that this falls in line with what they wanted the economy to evolve into. You're changing the buy-in prices and the value of the products were transporting so even smaller ships have a chance to make some sort of profit.
The profit has gone down, in this version at the moment, the profit has gone from 1/3 to 1/4 the buy in price on the ones I looked at
The issue with cargo for me is the incredibly high risk nature of it. You can easily lose months of work if the server disconnects you mid trip or anything else that separates you from your vehicle. I also think auto loading should be an option in most places. I’m under the impression that small mining outposts don’t have it. I haven’t played since 3.24.
@NoobsGamingSC indeed. But it's nice that buy-ins and payouts are increasing relative to their old rates. Imagine as a starter, trying to trade with 8scu ships. Only thing worthwhile before would be... Gold? RMC? But at least increasing bulk rates of more items will pump life into economy. Not just sticking to 1 to 5 items for profit but much more.
@ it’ll be nice for basic bulk items to feel okay to trade. I mean someone has to bring the double dogs to the stations.
@@BC-vv3ot A very damn solid good point. So the way the game works, if the server fails while you're in transit with your goods, You have 2 levels of protection. And mid you, this works.
1. If you get a 30k on your end, your character/ship will remain in the game and won't stream out until about 5 to 10 minutes. In the event that it streams out, your ship and character are relocated back to the last place of origin where you use ATC. This includes any cargo that the ship was carrying.
2. If it was a server side 30k, you'll immediately be streamed out to the last location you left with your cargo.
Your cargo doesn't just go away anymore. The harder part was making sure the Hull C with cargo spindles open, would RELIABLY spawn at the docking ports instead of in a hangar resulting in a bad day. lol. BUT nonetheless, persistence allows us to keep our cargo now.
But if you think about it... merchanting, trading... is a VERY high right and VERY high reward way of life. This is why merchants (irl) fail miserably with poor planning and bad luck or become the magnates of their world. It's a fast path to wealth but comes and great self risk. This should be accessible to all sizes of ships and not just the giant barges like the Hull C. So with that, I'm 100% behind what they're doing.
Trading is DEAD - CIG determined to make the game unrewarding and a huge grind - who wants to stump up 7million to make 400k??? thats just nuts from a risk reward point of view.
do you have the buy price in 4.0 ?, comparing sell price 4.0 against buy price 2.23.x. Not relevant
Yes in the video I show the buy price in 4.0 scrap sells for 1,600 in 4.0 and med supplies sells for 2.25k in 4.0 in 3.24 they sell at 135 and 1,250
Dont agree with anyone thinking its too hard to make money as is. Sorry but its way too easy to make money. They need to think longevity. And i should not be able to come into a fresh wipe and make 3-5 mill in one week. I think they need to place more value on money and death of a space man to make actione. Whether its trading or combat require some forethought...
I do agree it shouldn’t be too easy, but defo hope it doesn’t get replaced by missions
I think for the game in alpha, the ship prices shouldnt be as high as they are in the first place. Yeah its not too hard to grind for money but it still does take a while to buy ships costing 10+ million. And for the people who only have a starter ship like mustang or whatever, its not that easy, its usually the people who actually have a good starter ship who complain that its so easy to make money and they love wipes.