5HP MTD Yard Machine Rototiller Model 410 Transmission Repair / broken transmission
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- I purchased this rototiller off of craigslist, not running. The seller told me "just needs new gas! Ran great before I parked it a few years ago!". Well, they lied. After I fixed the engine, I found that the tines would not engage. The rototiller would drive forwards, backwards, neutral, but would not engage the tines for tilling. This video shows what I found wrong inside the transmission, the part I used to repair it, and some additional comments if you want to dive in further.
IMPORTANT NOTE: You do NOT need to tear down the transmission as far as I do in this video to replace the shift fork! If you want to just replace the shift fork, it'll probably work great for you. You won't need to replace the grease if you just swap out the fork, and leave the old ball detent & spring. It's tricky putting all the parts back in the right place if you fully tear down the transmission. Beware!
I'm pretty sure the model number of my tiller is: 21A-410-000. (AKA: model 410). If you Google this, you'll find websites that have parts. I ordered my parts from Sears PartsDirect.
- Shift fork part number: 618-0245B
- Ball detent part number: 741-0862
- Ball detent spring part number: (had to order from somewhere else. Can't find part #)
PROBLEM IDENTIFICATION & REPAIR:
0:20 - Description of problem
1:18 - Source of problem (bent shift fork)
2:04 - Showing how bent fork cannot engage tine gear
3:06 - New Shift fork installed (a note on purchasing parts)
FURTHER TEAR DOWN OF TRANSMISSION:
3:36 - Showing all parts pulled out of transmission
4:13 - Details about the gear that gets engaged for tines (I flipped the gear over. Not sure if this was a good idea, but it worked for me! NOTE: The original gear MAY have had those rounded corners intentionally. I don't know if this was wear and tear or not. Your choice.)
5:19 - Showing where the ball detent and spring reside (If replacing)
5:41 - Details about how the ball detent & spring work
GREASE! IMPORTANT IF REPLACING GREASE:
6:19 - What kind of grease to use (Alternative to OEM grease)
7:26 - If reusing the old gasket for transmission case...
CONCLUSIONS:
7:56 - Running the rototiller immediately after repairs
8:25 - One year later: Final comments on performance
Great show! Wish I had thought of the detent spring commparsion! May have to order one, tear the box apart again and replace it so the tangs will stay engaged. Just put the fork in nothing else look bad upon inspection. Thanks for the flick!
Hi Nick, you did a fine job on the rebuild and your video was precise and very helpful. I had doubts about how deep I wanted to get in the repair but going the distance and doing it right will be much easier with your video to fall back on. You are a natural tutor and hope you continue with other fix it projects. Thanks Mark
Glad you posted this and got straight to the point without to much talky talky about stuff that has no place in a repair video like so many do.
Just doing this now and came to the same conclusion. Glad to find a video going into depth and see this is a very common problem...
GREAT VIDEO, would have loved to see full reassembly, seems to be a common problem with these machines
If I had known that this video was going to be so popular, I definitely would have gone in deeper! I’m kind of shocked at the number of views.
When you take it apart, incorporate some sort of system for tracking. Write things down, video tape it, have a helper take photos (your hands will be covered in grease)… whatever works for you. I laid all the parts out in a line, on paper, and I still lost track of a few items. I had to make some educated guesses on final assembly. So DEFINITELY figure out a system for cataloguing everything as you disassemble. The parts diagrams are only partially helpful. Good luck!
Yeah, mine started disengaging after plowing hard and rough dirt. Used to be hard to engage tines but now it's easier but starting to kickout?????
Check ball sticks from dirt in gear box. It’s hell but will need to be cleaned out
Thanks so much for this video, I have the same machine that stopped engaging the tines, everyone I talked to said they don't work on these or that it's not serviceable. You're giving me hope 🙂
My uncle is dealing with the same issue. Thank you for a good thorough video.
Glad to have found this. I have the same machine that I bought last year used of course. The fellow I got it from said his neighbor helped him take it apart and repaired something? In that process, when he put it back together, reverse and neutral have switched places. Kind of weird but I was okay with it like that. I used it last year for about 1.5 hours and it dug fine. This year when I got it out the tines wouldn't stay engaged. Having heard about the shifting fork issue, I assumed it was the problem. Nope, already had a new fork in it. The new fork seemed to me to be a little wide for the slide, so I closed it some. I figured that was the issue, but it wasn't. I was just tilling a small spot, so I got my attachment for my string trimmer and did the spot. But, I'm now on a mission to fix that thing. I can't get to it very soon because of a death in the family.
If anyone can tell me why the reverse and neutral swapped places, I would appreciate it.
Well, I got it sorted out. The guy who replaced the shift fork did two big things wrong. 1.) He flipped the reverse/neutral gear over and 2.) he put the spacer that goes under the tine sprocket and its drive gear on top of the drive gear rather than below it. So far, it's working as it was intended to. Time will tell.
I just took my tiller apart, I have the exact problem!
Your video is a big help, thank you.
Common problem with these
If it’s been used a lot on hard ground I would replace both chains
@@philliphall5198 my tiller pop out of tiller mode, looks like my shifter pointer is hitting the shroud, seems like the pointer is not aligned properly. Going to remove the sheet metal around the shifter pointer. Lots of vibrations as soon I make contact with soft soil.
Nick, thank you very much for posting this video. I have the same tiller that I purchased brand new, but the tines stopped engaging a couple of years ago. I wasn't brave enough to tear it apart, even though I already purchased a new bearing/spring for the stent. After watching your video about 15 times, 😂,
I finally tore it apart and the fork was actually fine, as was the bearing, but the forecast slipped out and jammed up in the little hole at the top of the transmission gear... opposite of where the bearing/spring are. It took me three times of tearing it down and putting it back together for it to finally work because of parts getting dislodged during the teardown. But after the third time it works great. I did discover that the reason it was getting jammed in the first place was because of the casing not allowing the gear shifter to go all the way to the right to keep the tines engaged. I always had to manually hold onto it for sit into place. This time I took a metal grinder to the top of the casing and widened the opening right below the 'T' ... Now I don't have to hold onto it and it works like a charm. Thanks again, I referenced your vid several times for locations of the various gears, washers, etc., since several pieces can be displaced after opening the case.
Thanks for the video. Someone gifted me the same tiller with same problem. Now I am sure I could fix it but equally as sure it wouldn’t be worth my time.
Thank Nick, excellent information. I need to do this. Looking for parts and service process.
Thank you for posting this video. Mine probably has the same exact issue. R,N,F all work other than the Tiller.
I have the exact same exact MTD Yardman 410 rototiller and the manual calls for 40 oz.of grease, not 20 oz. Also, I think you worry too much about the type of grease used. This is a slow speed gearbox. A good grease would be readily available red synthetic grease such as Mobil1. Some people use marine grease.
Wow, what a great video. You helped me tackle this beast of a project. It was my first time working on a transmission and this one was challenging. Thanks for the tips. My issue was the beast disengaging the tines. Replacing detent spring and ball helped but on rougher or uneven ground it still disengages. Before, even a small stick would disengage the tines. Other than that, the motor and transmission are running great, just the popping out of tines mode is annoying. You are brave flipping the gear. I didn't want to chance it and it's smoother on one side for the slide pins to engage tines easier. Surprised it worked well for you? Any advice on how to stop it from popping out of tines or dig mode is appreciated. Thanks again for the excellent video!!
Nicely done. Looking at one of these now thinking about buying it.
50 bucks if it’s not working properly
There are loads of these, or similar variants, out there, some with broken transmissions. Unfortunately its an inherently poor design, and by now most of the parts are listed as "unavailable". I bought one from a neighbor, that had a bad motor, but the transmission was working fine. I replaced the engine, and then I added a couple of grease zerks, so I could add grease to the transmission (just the same moly grease I use on everything) and I'm going to use it this year for the first tilling the garden to test it, and then probably just sell it. If it breaks I'm probably not going to try and fix it, I'll just scrap it, as I have two other tillers (Troy Horse and an old Roto Hoe) that are much better built.
I miss the old tillers that were either gear drive, or had belts and an enclosed chain drive, you could usually fix them without having to hunt down obscure parts.
But thanks for going through all of the repairs, and posting the video, it shows us what's involved in fixing one of these.
I agree that if this transmission breaks again, no more repairs! It was a lot of work, and definitively a labor of love. Probably not a practical repair, unless you just like doing this stuff like me 😀
I drilled hole in top and #2 grease and Lukas hub oil mixture and I silicone the case , plastic plug in hole
Oh man I am screwed, trying to put the transmission back together is going to be tough!!!!!
How did you find the parts. I'm unable to find them
Check out the video description: I’ve posted some details about parts sourcing. It definitely takes a little bit of internet digging. That’s all I have though, as I made this video about a year after the repair, so I don’t have all of the details. But hopefully that helps!
Have same transmission on MTD 410. Do these transmission not allow of the drive wheels to completely freewheel for moving the tiller without it running?
Hey Nick, Great video!!! I am tackling a repair on my tiller that resembles yours. I’m having the issue of it engaging the drive gears fine, but it won’t engage the tines at all. Mine is an MTD tiller as well. Wondering if you could share some additional knowledge and what tools I will need when tearing mine down, any diagrams or websites you used? Where you got your springs and ball detents, etc. Please HELP!!! I need it for this spring and summer.
Thanks! I don’t remember needing to use any special tools than a standard tool set, as long as you have sockets and extensions, and box wrenches, etc. In the description, I posted where I bough the parts, and the part numbers. I also list the rototiller model, number that can be used to Google parts diagrams. Good luck!
@@gearsandgardens4018 lol much appreciated! Didn’t see the description until after I sent my comment. Have a great weekend
@@tbonesteak9207 I wish I remembered more, but I honestly forgot to post the video for a year, and now I don’t remember all the details!
I omitted the tear down if the Rototiller (getting to the transmission), because it’s a lot easier than rebuilding the actual transmission. Just make sure to see my note about “splitting the case”, and how you need to sand the driveshaft.
If you get the Transmission case open, and decide that it was pretty difficult just getting there, then I would definitely avoid taking every part of the transmission apart! Just replace the shift fork and call it a day. It was way harder than I thought to get the transmission back together. I’m still surprised I got it right! Haha
I’m having almost the same problem except for when I put it in gear for the blade and pull the top handle the belt squeals and blade will not turn at all. Any suggestions?
This is exactly what is wrong with my exact same tiller
Where did you find the manuals for this. Mine pops out of forward until i give it a push then it pops back in but it takes very little resistance for it pop back out. I spent most of my time just pushing this thing while tilling. Tines work perfect but dang it wears me out pushing it.
Hey thanks very much I really love your video is there a a link where I can go look for the exact diagram for this gearbox I can't seem to put it back together I did and it's going only backwards not forward everything else works fine except there is no forward I would really appreciate if you could send me that Link thank you so much
How do you keep the detent ball held in. Please help. Or should I say the spring
Canu get the hole transmission allput to geter
Do u have a video on how to get rear shaft out for bearing replacement?
I do not unfortunately
cool thanks
Usefull work.Thanks
Mtd is good brand?
Hey!! Great video! What gear oil did you use in the transmission? And is there a fill plug for the transmission?
Hey Jesse! There is a section in my video about the gear grease, which you can find linked in the description. I’m posting the link in this comment to jump to that part in video.
It’s grease more so than oil, and there is not a full plug. You have to split the case to replace. It’s pretty thick stuff! ruclips.net/video/Vv2oVCw98r8/видео.html
Where did you find an exploded diagram and parts ?
You can search for the model number that I have listed in the description and some poor parts diagrams will come up on the web. But they are not very good. Pretty blurry and it’s hard to tell if you have the right model. I thought I’d be able to reference the parts diagrams but ultimately abandoned them. Just be super careful when you take the gear box apart and lay out every piece meticulously. I still got mixed up and had to guess on some of the reassembly.
I just got the same tiller that has been sitting in some ones back yard for a long time and I think it flooded. The engine is gone, but the transmission seems to work perfectly. I’m putting another engine on it, but I didn’t want to tear up the transmission if it flooded and the grease it is old or doesn’t have any in it. I didn’t want to have to take it apart and see so what do y’all think if I drilled a hole in it and put a grease zerk in it the drilled another hole as a vent?
I think it just depends on how much the rototiller means to you. The right way to fix it would be to split the case to inspect the grease, drain water if you find any, and add new grease if needed (Check my description section and click on the timestamp about grease). But if you're willing to wing it (not the end of the world if you lose the tiller), you could just try it as is. Do nothing. Or, you could try your technique with the zerk. I doubt that the grease would have flowed OUT of the transmission... it's pretty thick grease to begin with. But if the case filled with water, and there is still water in the case, then I'm guessing that would cause problems. The case is sealed up pretty well, but if it was fully submerged for a long time it probably did get water in it.
I've been looking for a video on this for a while. Wish I would have found it when I actually needed it instead of having it randomly suggested by youtube 2 years later. I have the same issue with the same tiller. Ended up taking mine apart and bending the fork back together. It worked for a while but eventually failed again. I cant believe just the replacement shift fork kit costs half as much as the tiller did. This tiller is a total piece of junk because of this one flimsy, overpriced little part. Great video though. In the end I just drilled a strategically placed hole in the casing and I use a flathead screwdriver to push the piece over to engage the tines. Totally a garbage jerry rigged fix but better than paying for a totally overpriced part considering how infrequently I use the tiller.
Good idea for a fallback if my fork ever deforms again! The one thing that is good about the tiller is that it’s a beast when it’s running correctly (for a smaller tiller).
I was thinking about buying the exact model from the video, which is kinda rare in germany. But a guy is selling it close by for around 400€, which is a decent price for a tiller like that one, which does work against the moving direction. Even if it is used, its a good price. But Im not that aware of what the whole machine did cost, when it was new. As its from the US, maybe you guys can tell me about the price when it was new? I already talked to the seller and he said, that it is working fine and got a new engine a while ago but it also needs a little adjustment to the drive or sth. Afterwards i found all these repair videos. So im kinda worried of just buying me a bunch of scrap for quite a high price.
So whatever. @jeremy lowman: If I would be in your case, i would have just welded on a reinforcement steel plate, like that one, which is connected to the brand new shaft. I guess they know about the problem and improved it. Would be an easy fix to just bend the 2 arms back to 90 degrees and tag weld the steel plate with the half round cut out onto it.
Regards from germany.
I’m not sure what they cost new, but I “think” I read somewhere about $800 USD. Can’t remember exactly though.
I think 400€ would be a fair price if it was in excellent condition. Right now, the Euro is pretty close to USD (400 euros = $422 USD).
I think I paid $160 USD (~150€) for mine, not running. After the carburetor rebuild, gas tank de-rust, and transmission repair, i was around $350USD.
I see similar rototillers, used and running well around here (Denver Colorado) on Craigslist for $300-$400 USD.
So the price of 400€ might be high if it has a problem like you said, but I don’t know your market.
@@gearsandgardens4018 I would have to check on it. Just talked to the seller on the phone. Im checking on those chinese made rear tine tillers also. Do you have a guess on the usability and quality of those?
And for the MTD tiller, what do you think might have been the price as a brand new machine back in the days?
Regards!
@@SodomMeansDeath no, I don’t know anything about those. If you go to look at this rototiller, just check to see what “adjustment” it needs. As far as I know, there are no adjustments on this rototiller, so it sounds like a problem to me. If it slips out of the tine gear, or is difficult to get into gear, then it has a bent shift fork. Maybe you can ask some more pointed questions to try and find out. Good luck!
Would you haven't to have the art # for the shift fork? I have exactly the same problem. Thanks.
Yep! The part number of the shift fork is listed in the description of the video.
Can you tell me why the oil leaks out of the transmission case where the shafts come out? I have changed all 4 seals, 3-4 times and they still leak.
I’m not sure why that would be. Are you adding grease back to the transmission? It takes a fairly thick grease (Benalene 920 grease) which is an NLGI weight of #0. This is the consistency of mustard. If the wrong grease was ever put in (or oil was used instead of the proper grease), that may be the source of your problem. Good luck!
@@gearsandgardens4018 Hello, Thanks for the grease info. However, will this be liquid enough to go between the gears? I have been using the recommended gear oil which is pretty thick but flowable.
@@jameshixson4770 I would absolutely continue to use the recommended gear oil! I “usually” use manufacturer recommended oil, and took a risk with this project using a different grease to save money. So far so good, but can’t be 100% sure on long term durability.
In this case, it’s hard to say why yours is still leaking grease! It could be rusted driveshafts, wrong oil seals, improper installation… there are a lot of variables. Sorry I could be of more help!
Where can I buy the kit
The details I had left on where to buy the parts are listed in the description. (I made the video about a year after I did the repair, and listed what I could about parts sourcing).
cool video about transmission repair. Are you also do videos about small engine repair. Hipa make parts for small engines and maybe we would collaborate to help more people?
I may do more videos of small engine repairs, but I don’t have any broken engines right now. We’ll see!
@@gearsandgardens4018 Sure, feel free to shoot an email to marketing@hipastore.com if you need anything.
WhaT model is this? My plate came off!…TIA!!!
Shift fork kit
Where can you order the shift plate and fort