Do numerical pain scales mean anything?

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  • Опубликовано: 30 янв 2025
  • Get 60 days free from Headspace from headspace-web.... or use voucher code STANDUPMATHS
    Come and see the previews for my new untitled stand-up show on 10 February, 24 March and 23 June. Grab tickets now: festivalofthes...
    Check out content from folk who bravely contributed data to the Schmatt Pain Index:
    Mark Bowler: / @afieldbiologist find out how we captured these insect in his latest video: • Catching the most pain...
    Michael and Dani: / the_wayfinders_
    Hugo Cliff: / hugocliff_rainforest
    Greg Foot: / gregfoot And Greg is doing a new schools talk "Rainforest Lab" www.gregfoot.c...
    Thanks to Rainforest Expeditions for inviting us to visit their Research Centres in Peru and facilitating us getting stung by things in a safe environment. Read more about the research being done in the rainforest by Wired Amazon. They take science research volunteers as well as offering paid trips.
    www.wiredamazo...
    / @rainforestexpeditions
    / rainforestexpeditions
    Huge thanks to my Patreon supporters. Their support never stings. / standupmaths
    CORRECTIONS
    None yet, let me know if you spot anything!
    Filming and editing by Alex Genn-Bash
    Written and performed by Matt Parker
    Produced and drone piloted by Nicole Jacobus
    Animations by William Marler
    Music by Howard Carter
    Design by Simon Wright and Adam Robinson
    MATT PARKER: Stand-up Mathematician
    Website: standupmaths.com/

Комментарии • 1,7 тыс.

  • @standupmaths
    @standupmaths  15 дней назад +273

    Thanks to everyone who volunteered to be stung, and to Headspace headspace-web.app.link/e/SUM for sponsoring the video.
    Let me know what your favourite sting was and why it was Michael and the Wasp.

    • @bartholomule
      @bartholomule 15 дней назад +9

      16:34

    • @acelm8437
      @acelm8437 14 дней назад

      I wrote a comment here before, but now it's gone

    • @ДимитърИванов-д3ш
      @ДимитърИванов-д3ш 14 дней назад +4

      you picked 30k, comparing it to the first sting, but humans are not very good in comprehending such big numbers, so if you'd compare it with sting number 3, would you rather get stung 2000 times by sting number 3, than 1 of sting number 4? (you gave 15 to sting 3, so 30000/15=2000)

    • @YamaKangaroo
      @YamaKangaroo 14 дней назад

      Is there any way we can get your RUclipsrs to go do your pair wise comparison? I'd sign up!

    • @Iklu-w1p
      @Iklu-w1p 14 дней назад

      If you are already in pain from another insect, your new sting perception will be distorted. It may feel more, or less intense.

  • @ouroya
    @ouroya 15 дней назад +3884

    you're quite the mathochist

    • @Xnoob545
      @Xnoob545 15 дней назад +6

      Omniarchive reference

    • @chrismanuel9768
      @chrismanuel9768 15 дней назад +6

      Ha! That's good

    • @damplamp
      @damplamp 15 дней назад +33

      mathochitht

    • @RobinDSaunders
      @RobinDSaunders 15 дней назад +34

      The real question: how many bullet ant stings are equivalent to one of these puns?

    • @broncogrizz
      @broncogrizz 14 дней назад +8

      Attributed to Mike Tyson?

  • @sambojinbojin-sam6550
    @sambojinbojin-sam6550 14 дней назад +601

    The best part of having a maths company: you don't have an ethics committee to run things by before you "science" stuff.

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад +26

      lmao no one thought to require mathematicians have an ethics committee, suddenly all the end of the world theories about paperclips and similar are starting to make a whole lot more sense...

    • @StuffandThings_
      @StuffandThings_ 14 дней назад +10

      Ah I think we just found a loophole
      Uh yes this experiment with mice is _definitely_ about maths... 100%... just look at all of our equations!

    • @sambojinbojin-sam6550
      @sambojinbojin-sam6550 14 дней назад +2

      @StuffandThings_ what precisely is, the human explosion quotient for a certain amount of pizza? (It's over 4 large pizzas I hope, because that's how many I just bought).
      Don't worry, it was for the family.
      But there are things we need to know. And graph....

    • @KenLieck
      @KenLieck 11 дней назад +1

      But you can't have maTHEmatICS without ETHICS, even if they are a bit scrambled...

    • @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721
      @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 7 дней назад

      The mad scientists were stopped by the amount of paper works. The mad mathematicians? Oh, they had nothing stopping them.

  • @thethunderant9208
    @thethunderant9208 15 дней назад +3990

    Now eat a ghost pepper to recreate the Scoville Scale from scratch lol.

    • @davidalearmonth
      @davidalearmonth 15 дней назад +69

      Or eat a bullet ant? :)

    • @Abhay0505
      @Abhay0505 15 дней назад +27

      Or a Carolina Reaper or Paqui one chip

    • @OliverMarkewärn
      @OliverMarkewärn 15 дней назад +32

      pepper x is 2 steps over ghost pepper, made by the same dude. but this is a much better experiment to run, since you can measure scoville in both amount and heat through capsaicin

    • @macgyveriii2818
      @macgyveriii2818 15 дней назад +14

      Would that also be the Schmatt scale? Do we go with Scarker Scale? Moville scale?

    • @Accipitercooperii
      @Accipitercooperii 14 дней назад +48

      Isn’t the Scoville scale based on how much you can dilute it and still detect it? So you don’t need to experience it raw to give it a number.

  • @kezia8027
    @kezia8027 14 дней назад +337

    I don't have much to contribute to a channel of this size, but I did spend the last 5 minutes rewatching 20:00 to 20:10

    • @adamrath8109
      @adamrath8109 13 дней назад +44

      That part was crazy!! And he said he wouldn’t overreact…

    • @xavierlebeuf3061
      @xavierlebeuf3061 13 дней назад +24

      Thank you for this very easy to click link to the best part of the video!

    • @patrickwigmore3462
      @patrickwigmore3462 13 дней назад +12

      I made sure to also spend a good amount of time rewatching the bit "right at the end", between 36:31 and 37:23, which is the obvious part to watch after watching the bit between 20:00 and 20:10.

    • @FlorianMickler
      @FlorianMickler 11 дней назад +5

      Thanks for the time marks! This should be pinned :-)

  • @ronwingrove683
    @ronwingrove683 14 дней назад +1029

    NGL, I thought the macro lens in the bullet ant shot was a shotgun barrel and that it was a pretty extreme way to remove an ant from Matt's arm.

    • @JosGeerink
      @JosGeerink 14 дней назад +6

      It's the Laowa Probe Lens

    • @energyーy
      @energyーy 14 дней назад +77

      It's to test the theory that bullet ants are worse than getting shot.

    • @eggs8021
      @eggs8021 14 дней назад +14

      Well I mean
      It is called a bullet ant

    • @Radix.Strategy
      @Radix.Strategy 13 дней назад

      "Interspecies shotgun wedding" came to mind here.

    • @DavidNorthMusic
      @DavidNorthMusic 12 дней назад +2

      Maybe for a Chimera Ant.

  • @NoobixCube
    @NoobixCube 14 дней назад +251

    My main takeaway from this is you can really spot the people who work in the rainforest and get stung by things every day. They rate the pain high, but they're all just "oh, yep, I'm being stung now".

    • @MagicGonads
      @MagicGonads 14 дней назад +16

      they rate the pain high relative to the base wasp, which might not be very high in the first place compared to others

    • @DragonBank
      @DragonBank 4 дня назад +3

      This is the biggest issue with the Schmatt scale of pain. The unit being indexed to is way too low relative to most things on the scale. ​@@MagicGonads

  • @GregFoot
    @GregFoot 15 дней назад +1115

    pleasure to join you on the trip mate (the stings, less so!)

  • @MaartenMID
    @MaartenMID 14 дней назад +643

    Matt: im not going to overreact to the bullet ants sting.
    Also Matt: gives a score two orders of magnitude higher than all the others

    • @fghjconner
      @fghjconner 14 дней назад +122

      The most mathematician way of overreacting.

    • @Ellanion
      @Ellanion 14 дней назад +53

      On the other hand though... they agreed when they saw his number.

    • @dylanhenry3310
      @dylanhenry3310 13 дней назад +20

      yeah, but he wasnt writhing on the ground like Coyote

    • @sotek2784
      @sotek2784 13 дней назад +55

      Given his explanation, though, I actually kind of think the rest of them were miscalibrated; they were thinking instantaneous pain, not pain over time.

    • @shawnington
      @shawnington 13 дней назад +24

      When after the second one, he was asked about factoring in time, then in the end, he bases his number completely on how many stings per hour it would require. Lovely lol. Measurement realities change when you get real data.

  • @BANANAROFL
    @BANANAROFL 5 дней назад +25

    Cannot understate how much I appreciate not having to turn the volume down every time someone screams. Editors are s tier on this channel.

    • @ancientswordrage
      @ancientswordrage 3 дня назад +2

      I hadn't even noticed, and that's really good!

  • @Ms.Pronounced_Name
    @Ms.Pronounced_Name 14 дней назад +163

    22:20 "that thing that looks like a sniper rifle, isn't"
    That's precisely what someone at Sniper Rifle point would say!

  • @summarity
    @summarity 15 дней назад +375

    Great micro-study on how chronic pain can change your whole personality. Compare everyone bubbly bonding over the novel but short experiences of the first stings to ... just constant pain for a long time.

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад +59

      As someone who experiences chronic pain, I definitely noticed a HUGE mood shift, though while I did put it down to the pain, I hadn't really put two and two together, but it certainly 'feels painfully accurate' if that pun doesn't sting too much

    • @Tinil0
      @Tinil0 14 дней назад +9

      It's not really a microstudy of that at all though, there was no comparing it to someone who had chronic pain. This information by itself says nothing about how chronic pain can change your whole personality. Having social benefits with shared pain doesn't really mean anything for long term pain obviously.
      But I do kinda wish now that someone with chronic pain also did this so they could compare it. I feel like sometimes it makes me more sensitive to pain and sometimes it makes me more resilient to pain, not counting mood shifts. It's really hard to say exactly what it does to your perception of pain in my experience except "make it wonky". I no longer can accurately predict how badly something will hurt or how that pain will affect me, simply because sometimes I grossly underestimate pain and sometimes I grossly overestimate pain...

    • @harbivore451
      @harbivore451 14 дней назад +11

      I had just taken it to be the result of having a done a whole day filming, having just had dinner and it being the evening. Rather than from the pain directly.
      However, that just shows how hard it is to isolate variables in any scenario..

    • @BridgeBum
      @BridgeBum 13 дней назад

      ​@@kezia8027Another chronic pain person here (fibromyalgia). I do my best to keep spirits up and not let it get to me, but there are some days I am irritable to everyone around me. It sucks, and I try to fight it but some days there is no hope.

    • @THICCTHICCTHICC
      @THICCTHICCTHICC 13 дней назад +9

      Honestly chronic, or even just relatively persistent pain will absolutely destroy your brain after a while

  • @bad.D
    @bad.D 14 дней назад +347

    Mark absolutely TANKED those stings.. the bullet ant got him for a solid 10 seconds, you can tell he's a dedicated scientist.

    • @rogershakespeare3889
      @rogershakespeare3889 14 дней назад +32

      Definitely made sense when he talked about the warrior wasps attacking him at height.

    • @threeholepunchmike3549
      @threeholepunchmike3549 13 дней назад +16

      15:36 had me laughing and i came looking for this

  • @1.4142
    @1.4142 15 дней назад +1099

    The score should be how much as painful as the previous sting, because people are worse at thinking in bigger numbers and they have already forgotten the first sting by then.

    • @philopharynx7910
      @philopharynx7910 14 дней назад +129

      They should take the stings in pairs between every possible combination in order to reduce variation.

    • @NoriMori1992
      @NoriMori1992 14 дней назад +9

      Agreed!

    • @fcuk_youtube
      @fcuk_youtube 14 дней назад +1

      lol this video was so funny for their reactions alone, but yeah I kept thinking recency bias must be a thing to consider when doing something like this

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад +28

      @@philopharynx7910 make it 3 for redundancies, just in case! 🤣

    • @Kenionatus
      @Kenionatus 14 дней назад +10

      But then you have stacking randomness.

  • @MarkovChains223
    @MarkovChains223 14 дней назад +85

    I just realized the acronym for Stand-up Maths is "S.U.M."
    Idk if that was intentional, but i love it

  • @brendancskinner
    @brendancskinner 15 дней назад +1162

    15:33 "Under the skin is where I keep most of my blood". I'd argue it's where you keep all of your blood. Unless there's something you're not telling us Matt?

    • @niceguy191
      @niceguy191 15 дней назад +125

      Some of it is in the skin

    • @stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369
      @stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369 15 дней назад +9

      Well you know, depends what you mean, if its right under your skin, or anywhere within ur body
      then theres under other membranes like the respiratory and digestive tracks those have quite a bit of blood

    • @blaz2892
      @blaz2892 15 дней назад +49

      If you keep all of your blood under your skin, you also keep most of it there. `Most` is a loose subset.

    • @JustAnotherMe
      @JustAnotherMe 15 дней назад +9

      You've heard about "skeletons in the closet" but have you heard about "blood in the ...." I've said too much.

    • @arcana5335
      @arcana5335 15 дней назад +9

      All the SERIOUS doomsday preppers have been drawing their own blood in case of emergencies for years.

  • @prestonjensen6172
    @prestonjensen6172 14 дней назад +516

    19:57 i can't believe his reaction to getting stung by the bullet ant

  • @qwfp
    @qwfp 15 дней назад +161

    I'd say people have trouble with large numbers, so it's hard to imagine being stung by 300 wasps. And compare that to being stung by 3000 wasps. Maybe it would be better to use the previous sting pain as a "unit" for the next value, to keep the numbers smaller?

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад +31

      yep, I think they'll need to redo the whole test to really get it right

    • @danstratyt
      @danstratyt 12 дней назад +3

      In theory you can just compare to previous value though. It the same measurement. If you said 4 potter wasps is the same as the tangorana ant then you would be subconsciously using that as a metric as well.
      Greg did exactly that

    • @Calakapepe
      @Calakapepe 13 часов назад

      I concur ​@@kezia8027

  • @JamesCoutie
    @JamesCoutie 14 дней назад +97

    36:30 "We'd need a lot more people to get stung by a lot of very painful insects"... Now that's a call to action if I've ever heard one!

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад

      I mean, I honestly think you could probably relatively easily find people online who would be willing to be stung by 2/3 insects as part of some giant initiative, so long as there was enough PR behind it. It might get harder to find people willing to get stung by the "worse" ones, but there are also thrill seekers out there who seek out danger/pain so even then, I'm sure if it was made accessible through some scientific initiative, people would willingly offer their bodies up for scientific research, give them some enamel pin that says "I got stung for science" or something idk it honestly seems surprisingly feasible if one had enough of the right connections...

    • @HunterJE
      @HunterJE 14 дней назад +4

      Next patreon reward: A pair of stinging insects! Please state your preference by return post.

    • @dielaughing73
      @dielaughing73 12 дней назад

      Sounds like he wants us to try it at home

  • @DariusBaktash
    @DariusBaktash 15 дней назад +579

    My wife (neuroscientist who works with insects) and I (clinical research) would love to do a proper, proper shmattified pain scale with blinding controls like black box (no visual of the species), controlled bite and injection timing, compound and stinger separate from species (e.g. 3d printed stingers), etc.

    • @aFieldBiologist
      @aFieldBiologist 15 дней назад +86

      Perhaps we can provide the rainforest?

    • @bobh6728
      @bobh6728 15 дней назад +41

      It would be hard to duplicate (3D) the stinger mechanism. That is part of the pain, depending on how it penetrates the skin and not just the toxin.

    • @DariusBaktash
      @DariusBaktash 14 дней назад +26

      @@bobh6728 We're now at the point where we can do some pretty amazing replication of micro/nano structures so long as the project funding is there.

    • @fariesz6786
      @fariesz6786 14 дней назад +6

      i volunteer as a tribute

    • @picassodilly
      @picassodilly 14 дней назад +16

      I was wondering if there was a more directly numerical way to measure pain- like by measuring nerve response or something like that?

  • @IstasPumaNevada
    @IstasPumaNevada 14 дней назад +49

    19:55 I'm doing my part! That was so good I watched it at least 20 times. ;)

  • @MichaelOnines
    @MichaelOnines 15 дней назад +349

    I love the arbitrary precision implied by picking "288" wasps at 32:58.

    • @Petch85
      @Petch85 15 дней назад +57

      289 would just be too many 😂

    • @MeesterG
      @MeesterG 15 дней назад +5

      I feel you one that 30,000 though xD

    • @Phlosioneer
      @Phlosioneer 15 дней назад +10

      It’s a multiple of his previous number. Which was a multiple of his number before that.

    • @MichaelOnines
      @MichaelOnines 15 дней назад +31

      @@Phlosioneer 288 isn't a multiple of 44 and 44 isn't a multiple of 6. Not sure what you are trying to say.

    • @MeesterG
      @MeesterG 15 дней назад +10

      @@MichaelOnines well, not a whole multiple maybe... But 7 1/3rd is a multiple too? :p

  • @kruksog
    @kruksog 14 дней назад +43

    Really cool life you lead Matt. Seeing eclipses in the arctic, getting stung by bullet ants in the amazon, writing really excellent books... I'm jealous, that's all I'll say!

    • @standupmaths
      @standupmaths  14 дней назад +24

      I’m very fortunate!

    • @kruksog
      @kruksog 14 дней назад +4

      @standupmaths hey, so long as you recognize it, I'm cool with it... (Obviously, I'm a fan and was always cool with it, but I am glad you know how fortunate you are!)
      Cheers, Matt. Come to Seattle for something someday, so I can get you to sign all my stand-up maths stuff!

    • @dielaughing73
      @dielaughing73 12 дней назад

      ​@@standupmathsyou've 100% earned it, mate

    • @placer7412
      @placer7412 8 дней назад

      @@kruksog bro you live in seattle, thats kinda highfaluting from where im at is all im saying

  • @EliteCuttlefish
    @EliteCuttlefish 15 дней назад +230

    There's no reason not to do direct comparison since the pain was so localized. Let's put these numbers to the test. On Matt's left arm he gets stung by the bullet ant and on the right he gets stung for a total of 30000 times by the wasp. At the end of the day he chooses which arm he could do without. It wouldn't give the actual answer (unless it was exactly equal) but it would give a constraint. Rinse and repeat until the actual value is achieved.

    • @pleasestopsubscribingtomyc3360
      @pleasestopsubscribingtomyc3360 15 дней назад

      ok jigsaw

    • @danilooliveira6580
      @danilooliveira6580 15 дней назад +18

      his number makes sense, because the bullet ant is a constant pain that last hours, but not necessarily very bad. while the wasp is a small localized pain that don't last very long. so for him the pain of the bullet ant is the equivalent of being stung in the same spot every second by the wasp.

    • @TheReaverOfDarkness
      @TheReaverOfDarkness 14 дней назад +5

      I am interested to see how multiple to many calibration wasp stings scale. I hypothesize that each new sting will initially feel less important than the ones before it, but after some critical mass of venom the venom toxicity symptoms will begin to present, and at that point each new sting will seem to scale up much more rapidly.
      And to anyone being a test dummy, say goodbye to at least one night's proper rest.

    • @antoniofigueroa887
      @antoniofigueroa887 14 дней назад +2

      Why is no one talking about being stung 30000 times!

    • @danilooliveira6580
      @danilooliveira6580 14 дней назад +7

      @@antoniofigueroa887 1 sting a second for 8 hours is around 30,000 stings. that was what he meant, it felt like the sting of the wasp but constantly for 8 hours.

  • @Lucifers-Stepdad
    @Lucifers-Stepdad 14 дней назад +36

    I occasionally forget that matt is Australian. This is a reminder that he absolutely is Australian.

  • @Mike-y5f2x
    @Mike-y5f2x 15 дней назад +121

    1:53 i'm not skipping to the end, this kind of madness deserves all the watchtime

    • @Flying-Bunny
      @Flying-Bunny 14 дней назад +2

      Also I'm tempted to rewind to another spot to prove Mat wrong :D (but that would be alone).

    • @WilliamLund-o1d
      @WilliamLund-o1d 13 дней назад +3

      @@Flying-Bunny 20:00

    • @Flying-Bunny
      @Flying-Bunny 13 дней назад +1

      @@WilliamLund-o1d yep, I commented before the video.
      But also, that would prove him right, we need to find another spot

  • @jaspermcjasper3672
    @jaspermcjasper3672 13 дней назад +22

    5:30 - When Matt says "time to Tango, Ranna", Mark Bowler's facial expression (and mine too) registered about a 4.9 on the Schmidt Pain Index.

  • @wizzletide9179
    @wizzletide9179 15 дней назад +43

    "It's a remove your own ant situation." got me real good :D:D

  • @HavokTheorem
    @HavokTheorem 14 дней назад +61

    20:10 I rewatched this like 50 times, I couldn't believe that was actually your reaction. Lowkey badass.

  • @DNVPIVIN
    @DNVPIVIN 15 дней назад +97

    Everyone else wrote down based on "how many wasp stings at once would equal this amount of pain" so it just looks like Matt would rather be stung by 30 thousand wasps over his entire body at once rather than a single sting on his arm lmao

    • @ancientswordrage
      @ancientswordrage 14 дней назад

      I think that's the point

    • @leocurious9919
      @leocurious9919 14 дней назад +14

      @@ancientswordrage But it is not, it barely hurts at first and then quickly ramps up really hurts for hours(!). You either need 2 categories (instant and lasting pain, for seconds and hours) or make it as "it would take x of the previous every [duration of pain] than this".

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад +7

      @@leocurious9919 the other problem, I believe the length of time would HEAVILY influence the following time in pain, ie. the 5th hour probably sucks more than the 3rd even if the specific moment of pain is at the same level.

  • @thomasesr
    @thomasesr 14 дней назад +63

    At 19:43 When Matt says they are in safe hands, Aracely gives a side eye and a smile. Like she has killed before 😶

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад +9

      "ha don't worry these fools have no idea" 🤣🤣

  • @redryder3721
    @redryder3721 15 дней назад +401

    19:56 the bit where Matt gets stung by an ant. Saved you lots of searching

    • @tandemcart1234
      @tandemcart1234 15 дней назад +44

      Perfect. I watched a few times to help build the attention spike. Hopefully that helps people who just want to scroll through :)

    • @jjbeast098
      @jjbeast098 15 дней назад +26

      Looked for a comment like this as soon as I got to this part. Excited to see the attention plot

    • @maragazh9993
      @maragazh9993 15 дней назад +11

      Bro cares more about seeinf someone in pain than the mathematical concept being discussed (the point of the vid)

    • @klapsvin
      @klapsvin 15 дней назад +1

      @@tandemcart1234 same here

    • @stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369
      @stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369 15 дней назад +18

      @ you havent watched the section mentioned yet, have you? hehe

  • @TommiHimberg
    @TommiHimberg 14 дней назад +11

    "That thing that looks like a sniper rifle isn't." Well, there goes my theory of where the bullet ants come from.

  • @federicoalcantara4796
    @federicoalcantara4796 15 дней назад +186

    3:44 haha love their reactions
    "yep"
    "huh yep"
    "hah ye"
    "huh yep"

    • @vladthemagnificent9052
      @vladthemagnificent9052 14 дней назад +18

      basically, 1 on schmatt scale is the sting that makes you go yep

    • @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721
      @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 7 дней назад

      @@vladthemagnificent9052 as opposed to the sting that makes you go no, which seems appropriate.

  • @YoeyYutch
    @YoeyYutch 14 дней назад +17

    "Hasn't Got A Title, Don't Really Know What's Going To be In It, See Some Of You There"
    sounds like a good title to me.

  • @glenmorrison8080
    @glenmorrison8080 14 дней назад +33

    This video provides an excellent example of how research _plans_ get complicated when they become research _practice_ . There are always aspects you don't consider ahead of time, and only discover part way through experimentation. And then at the analysis stage, another great demonstration of figuring out how to analyze data with unexpected characteristics.

  • @EllipticalReasoning
    @EllipticalReasoning 13 дней назад +21

    27:44 I want to mention for the record that the warrior wasp is the third insect to score a 4 on the Schmidt pain index

  • @ronnodas
    @ronnodas 15 дней назад +105

    To average ratios (where both the numerator and denominator are varying), you should be taking geometric means. This will mean that the average ratios will also multiply correctly, ie avg(ant/bee) avg(bee/caterpillar) = avg(ant/caterpillar). This is of course equivalent to taking the arithmetic mean of logarithms.

    • @RobinDSaunders
      @RobinDSaunders 15 дней назад +4

      +1, came here to say the same thing! Hopefully some comments will help get the algorithm's attention :)

    • @nikotheboss6524
      @nikotheboss6524 14 дней назад +4

      Was going to suggest this too, especially since the ratios for the most painful insects are kind of products of individual ratios for each insect compared to the last

    • @onemadscientist7305
      @onemadscientist7305 14 дней назад +2

      I mean, we have the full data. Anyone less lazy than me can do it.

    • @Justjustsayin
      @Justjustsayin 11 дней назад

      Suppose you could measure the neural activity resulting from each sting, a) at the sting site, b) in the brain. Would either of these measurements be affected by your perception of the stinging creature ( imagine large, evil, hideously ugly alien with a highly elaborate stingy thing)? Would either be affected by the certain knowledge that the sting was causing permanent damage or death?

  • @0rderofTheWhiteLotus
    @0rderofTheWhiteLotus 13 дней назад +2

    Watched this channel for many many years, but this really truly takes the cake. What an exceptional concept, video... ahh everything. Love it!

    • @DanSchaumann
      @DanSchaumann 13 дней назад

      I know, right? I thought the same. Such an interesting & entertaining concept for a video, a mix of maths, biology and ecology, it’s one of his best!

  • @Aziraphale686
    @Aziraphale686 15 дней назад +132

    I'm feeling really seen right now. Every time I go for a pain management checkup and they say what's your pain right now from 1 to 10 and I'm like, I DON'T KNOW IT'S ALWAYS LIKE THIS.

    • @kezia8027
      @kezia8027 14 дней назад +6

      god that is a mood. Hope you're having a good day today 💖

    • @samarnadra
      @samarnadra 14 дней назад +6

      Make a scale like this of your pain experiences compared to each other, and making it into a 0-10 scale. you can find examples of those done by others online to compare to. my is kinda logarithmic. then reckon to that

    • @CoreyKearney
      @CoreyKearney 14 дней назад +3

      Right, like how do you explain that according to their scale you hover around 5 or 6?

    • @Ellanion
      @Ellanion 14 дней назад +22

      "10 is the worst pain you can imagine"
      Okay... I guess this kidney stone might qualify as a 1.5? I have a really vivid imagination.

    • @TheRedPhant0m
      @TheRedPhant0m 12 дней назад

      ⁠​⁠@@samarnadrabut that would just be like everything besides this a 1 like i accidentally cut myself with a knife and would give that a 1 me with pain meds was 4 and without was a 10 but saying 4 when on pain meds and they would not believe me

  • @NoNowwwell
    @NoNowwwell 15 дней назад +35

    Imagine if he did 9 insects and the numbers made a perfect number square, to sequel the parker square.

  • @scbtripwire
    @scbtripwire 14 дней назад +17

    I feel like rolling around on the rainforest floor will only make things worse... that's where many insects are!

  • @walternullifidian
    @walternullifidian 15 дней назад +13

    I remember, when I was in the hospital last year, seeing a show on TV (Kings of Pain) where a couple of guys would be purposely stung by various things in order to assess the levels of pain involved with different critters. It was fun to watch, but only because I didn't have to be stung myself!

  • @krisrhodes5180
    @krisrhodes5180 13 дней назад +7

    @0:40 and after his little speech about overdramatic ant bite videos I'm fully expecting Matt to end up screaming like a child

  • @michelfug
    @michelfug 15 дней назад +144

    7:32 hehe, the qr code even contains an ant 🐜

  • @crunchyfrog555
    @crunchyfrog555 14 дней назад +7

    Length of pain is big one for me.
    I've got spina bifida, so I get a fair amount of spinal pain and knock on pain. More than this I get occasional kidney issues and the pain from that is horrendous. It's severe but it also is relentless.
    I have got used to pain through having the constant stuff always there, so I've learned to block it out through diverting my mind. This takes a fair amount of energy even though it's somewhat automatic. You get knackered easily.
    But when the kidney trouble starts it's severe, but at first you can deal with it.
    As it goes on, because it's relentless you just cannot put up with it anymore as your energy depletes.
    The worst I had was having a kidney stone during COVID. Calling for an ambulance meant that due to the issues with the NHS, I had to wait with this pain for 16 hours.
    I never want that again.

  • @ncallaway12
    @ncallaway12 15 дней назад +15

    This video was amazing. The only thing that would’ve made it better is making it a bidding game. High bidder gets stung by that many calibration wasps, low bidder gets stung by the insect again.
    Not sure how that would work in a hospital setting, though…

  • @mihailstolz
    @mihailstolz 14 дней назад +6

    Choosing the "Flight of a bumblebee" for the wasp sting was a pleasant touch.

  • @bill-7718
    @bill-7718 15 дней назад +206

    this video is the combination of my absolute biggest fear, and insect stings

  • @Oltoir
    @Oltoir 14 дней назад +11

    @15:30 "It stung me through the skin. And under the skin is where I keep most of my blood" 😂

    • @t.o.mirite
      @t.o.mirite 13 дней назад +1

      thats just personal preference, riɡht?
      i keep it all stored in a biɡ tank at home, so that any wanderinɡ vampires cant ɡet blood from me

    • @HildeTheOkayish
      @HildeTheOkayish 11 дней назад

      ​@t.o.miriteinteresting! Can I come in to see?

  • @grahamsmall9280
    @grahamsmall9280 15 дней назад +5

    This is one hell of a video, and just brings far more credibility than any of the other Stung video creators.

  • @MariaNicolae
    @MariaNicolae 14 дней назад +68

    Regarding the point about using a log scale: it is generally true that humans perceive the intensity of a stimulus to be logarithmic to its objective, measured intensity. For example, a light whose power is increasing exponentially will be perceived as increasing steadily in brightness, and a sound whose pressure amplitude is increasing exponentially will be perceived as getting steadily louder (hence why we use decibels, a logarithmic scale); this is called the Weber-Fechner law. It's entirely unsurprising, then, that pain works the same way.

    • @IceMetalPunk
      @IceMetalPunk 14 дней назад +2

      Our perception of chronology works similarly. We perceive time scales relative to (roughly) our entire lifespan, so as we age, the same time scale feels shorter and shorter. It's why 5 minutes for a child can feel like forever, but for adults, it's nothing and an event from decades ago can feel like "just yesterday".

    • @tubegerm6732
      @tubegerm6732 14 дней назад +9

      ​@@IceMetalPunk fun fact: that's not actually true at all. just because you read it on the internet, doesn't make it true. really, the more you think about it, the less sense it makes. and even if it was true, that's not what a logarithmic scale even means.

    • @IceMetalPunk
      @IceMetalPunk 14 дней назад +7

      @ Okay, first of all, that isn't something I "read on the internet". It's something I learned in various psych courses at my time in uni. And secondly, I didn't say it was exactly logarithmic, I said it was similar in how quickly the perception scales compared to the actual scale change.

    • @EebstertheGreat
      @EebstertheGreat 14 дней назад +3

      @@IceMetalPunk There is no evidence for a logarithmic scaling of time perception relative to age. A more plausible explanation is that children are impatient. There is some limited evidence for a logarithmic scaling of time perception relative to duration, in the sense that subjects tend to subjectively average time intervals close to the geometric mean rather than the arithmetic mean. On the other hand, that could have more to do with the mental process of averaging than experiencing time.
      Even if time perception does slow down as people age, a logarithm would be a terrible mathematical model for how it happens, so it's not related directly to the Weber-Fechner law.

    • @MariaNicolae
      @MariaNicolae 14 дней назад +2

      @ If it was true that we perceived time at a rate reciprocal to our age so far, then it actually *would* be logarithmic in a sense, since the integral of a reciprocal is a logarithm. I do doubt that claim for other reasons, though. First of all, it would imply that the perceived time since you were born or sentient is infinite, and second of all, if we sidestep that and start counting from 1 year old, then it would imply that, at only 23 years of age, I've already experienced about 70% of my expected perceived lifespan, which seems counterintuitive.

  • @ShadowManceri
    @ShadowManceri 14 дней назад +14

    These tests also need to be done "blind" because there is social effect in play. You might feel more or less pain depending how you see others to react. They are not lying per say but it affects their actual feeling.

  • @terpman
    @terpman 13 дней назад +5

    The interesting thing is that pain is so subjective. The social context, your state of mind, what you THINK a proper reaction should be, and the overall situation you're in all play into how your body and mind decide to feel and respond to that pain. There's an interesting psychological experiment to be found here too. Get a different set of volunteers, have one of them be a plant and the first one to get the stings (in view of the others). Then have the support staff/experts hype up how painful each insect is. I'd hypothesize the other volunteers would have much stronger reactions than we saw here.

    • @tamara3984
      @tamara3984 6 дней назад

      Totally agree. As a chronic pain sufferer I apparently never behave 'right' for the pain I suffer, however, after 20 years I wldn't have much of a life. 😂

  • @beemerwt4185
    @beemerwt4185 14 дней назад +3

    I love this just because it shows the real process and various problems when doing an experiment. A really good example, I think, is around 17:00. Greg said it was "3 times more painful than the ant before it," concluding it was 9 times the calibration wasp. Then Nicole said it was "30 times more painful than the calibration wasp." These are obviously subjective measurements but it's what you're comparing to that might throw the statistic. You might see a reduction in the outliers stemming from this reasoning if you had a bigger sample size, but it's exactly these unpredictable confounding variables that make it so challenging to design an experiment in the first place. Really great video!

  • @Bluhbear
    @Bluhbear 14 дней назад +14

    19:57 is certainly the portion worth watching.

  • @iThing89
    @iThing89 13 дней назад +3

    I like how casual this video is about pain. Its nothing more than for example saying "oh, Im so hungry right now. I am 132 hungry!". After all pain is just another thing we experiance every day.

  • @ShinySwalot
    @ShinySwalot 14 дней назад +25

    13:03 Nicole going "I win" is so funny to me hahaha

  • @julianvillaruz
    @julianvillaruz 15 дней назад +18

    I feel like it would've been better if they rated each sting in terms of the previous sting instead of the potter wasp's

  • @pkre707
    @pkre707 12 дней назад +8

    This video really makes Coyote Peterson look like a melodramatic baby lol.

    • @ponpokopiii
      @ponpokopiii 8 дней назад

      Knowing how young majority of his audience is, it seems pretty clear that he purposely hams it up in order to dissuade any impressionable youths from doing anything foolish purely out of curiosity.

    • @AuthorNathanJohnson
      @AuthorNathanJohnson 6 дней назад

      @@ponpokopiii or, more realistically, he’s hamming it up for views to make a profit? And now he looks kind of foolish.

  • @Abrogator91
    @Abrogator91 12 дней назад +3

    Wow, i watched that "Brave Wilderness" video ages ago and ever since ive been convinced that the bullet ant bite was an absolutely brutal event.
    Thanks for showing that, while the sting hurts, its nowhere near as bad as that guy made it look.

  • @marpheus1
    @marpheus1 15 дней назад +89

    One thing I'm a little bit disapointed about is the lack of scientific names alongside the popular ones. As a myrmecologist (I study ants) I'm fairly certain the bullet ant you are using is _Paraponera_ _clavata,_ but I can't be sure. I have worked with a species that belongs to the same subfamily (Ponerinae) thats called _Dinoponera quadriceps._ A colleague of mine got stung by them five times after his masters degree presentention as a "rite of passage" of sorts (of his own free will). I personaly have never been. Only by _Odontomachus haematodus_ (trapjaw ant) which as far as I know hurts way less than Dinoponera. We work also with _Neoponera villosa,_ also called formiga cobra (Snake ant), that is said to hurt WAY more than _Dinoponera._

    • @Squant
      @Squant 14 дней назад +15

      He had to omit the scientific names so that disappointed myrmecologists in the comments would have something to contribute.

    • @SimonBuchanNz
      @SimonBuchanNz 14 дней назад +7

      Myrmecology is an incredible name. Well done getting that one ant stans!

    • @RaindropsBleeding
      @RaindropsBleeding 13 дней назад +2

      As a hobbyist myrmecologist I too was disappointed by the lack of scientific names. I somehow always forget that Dinoponera have stingers because their main talking point is how massive they are. I've never been stung by them. I think the worst sting I've gotten was Solenopsis invicta. I've also been stung by Pogonomyrmex occidentalis, but that's like having a spark from a fire land on your arm and letting it just sit there vs brushing it off immediately

  • @ScottMyersOfTheEarth
    @ScottMyersOfTheEarth 13 дней назад +6

    19:57 Reaction to the bullet ant sting is really incredible!! Gosh!!!!

  • @robertk1701
    @robertk1701 15 дней назад +17

    22:22 Wondering why they have a gun pointed at him. Certainly not to kill the ant. Maybe to put down Matt if it the pain is too much? Oh, it's a camera.

    • @A.F.Whitepigeon
      @A.F.Whitepigeon 13 дней назад

      I was envisioning some sort of compressed air system to puff the insect away without harming the person or touching the insect.

  • @markdstump
    @markdstump 10 дней назад +2

    I have had a lot of kidney stones over the years and to me: Pain is Sensation plus Fear…now when you feel such pain for the first time and you don’t know what it is then not only are you feeling a lot of pain but you’re scared and you’re like what the hell’s wrong with me!? After you’ve been through it a few times, it’s like: “I know what this is and I can ignore it for a few hours.”
    Although I admit that in my personal experience: although I can ignore such pain for 0 to 4 hours (and simply be a tough guy) from hours 4 to 8, if it lasts that long, then I find myself wanting to run away from it, and I start looking for the painkillers in the cabinet. And if the pain lasts 8 to 12 hours, then I’m starting to really hate it and even doubt my sanity after 12 hours of severe pain.

  • @maxgarber9934
    @maxgarber9934 15 дней назад +11

    I feel like the scale breaks down around 10ish. At that point the experience becomes more about just the pain and you have to factor in the effect of getting swarmed

  • @toolebukk
    @toolebukk 14 дней назад +8

    I immediately thought it would make sense to think about this logarithmically.

  • @Verlisify
    @Verlisify 15 дней назад +7

    I'm excited to hear more videos were made

  • @bugman3164
    @bugman3164 14 дней назад +9

    Once when I was in Costa Rica, I thought it would be fun to let a bullet ant walk up on my finger... It walked up onto my finger and promptly stung me on my knuckle. So, maybe it had something to do with you keeping your arm upright during your opening segment that kept you from receiving a premature sting. Also, yes, the sting hurt very, very badly for quite a long time. In fact, I think that I would have much rather have had that bullet ant sting me on my arm (as in the video) than on my knuckle. The bone + hammer as described in the video is an apt description as it felt as though my finger was being smacked repeatedly by a hammer.

  • @larspos8264
    @larspos8264 15 дней назад +97

    Its at 19:58

  • @DanSchaumann
    @DanSchaumann 13 дней назад

    Thanks Matt & crew for putting this together for Science. The most entertaining video I’ve watched in a while

  • @RhynoD2
    @RhynoD2 14 дней назад +2

    23:00 Matt absolutely dunking on all the other RUclipsrs doing this and I'm here for it.

  • @kruksog
    @kruksog 12 дней назад +1

    Props to homie at 24:45 ish, making sure to get a good shot. That's a man who understands good content creation.

  • @ssojjoss
    @ssojjoss 14 дней назад +4

    Love the detail in the QR code for headspace having an ant in it! 🐜

  • @zthecat
    @zthecat 5 дней назад +1

    I've always been TERRIFIED of wasps. Like unable to mow the lawn, keeping me from doing things I enjoy outdoors terrified. I'm not joking, I consistently have a few nightmares about wasps every single month. But over the past 4 or 5 years I've also become very interested in them, and hymenopterans in general. I've watched many many videos, and read quite a few books. And honestly, while I've learned a ton, my fear hasn't really subsided liked I expected it would with educating myself. Especially with videos like Coyote Peterson's Lol but you know what? After watching this video, I feel a lot calmer thinking about having an encounter with a wasp. It really helps seeing so many regular people getting stung by these insects, and acknowledging that it's not that bad. Of course I'll have to see if this feeling sticks, but I really hope it does. This has been a fear I've been trying to improve for a long time now.

    • @piasecznik
      @piasecznik 4 дня назад

      Maybe you should just let yourself get stung by a wasp? I was terrified of them as a kid too, and getting stung is what made me get over it because it's really not that big of a deal. I'd definitely choose getting stung by a wasp every once in a while over not getting to enjoy outdoors activities, the fear is way worse than the reality.

  • @Pay-No-Mind
    @Pay-No-Mind 14 дней назад +4

    I hadn't realised how bloody big Bullet ants were! That things a monster compared to your standard black/red ant! :O

  • @idontwantahandlethough
    @idontwantahandlethough 13 дней назад

    If this doesn't make this channel absolutely blow up, I don't know what would! This is algorithm GOLD!

  • @Rubrickety
    @Rubrickety 14 дней назад +5

    Headspace is the perfect sponsor for Matt. He has so much of it.

    • @-danR
      @-danR 14 дней назад

      The ad is less painful to see than a bullet-ant sting, but still... 🐜

  • @coaltowking
    @coaltowking 14 дней назад +2

    Matt's 1 Potter wasp sting per second for X hours approach definitely identifies him as the mathematician of the bunch.

  • @Flat_cones
    @Flat_cones 15 дней назад +21

    the schmidt index was originally just worked out by how many times mr. schmidt said "schmidt" when he was stung

  • @happyjosiah
    @happyjosiah 14 дней назад +4

    Warrior Wasps are also a 4 on the Schmidt Index, along with Bullet Ants and Tarantula Hawk Wasps. So yeah, I'd say getting attacked by 12 at once while suspended 100 feet in the air is probably indeed a good deal worse than a single Bullet Ant to the arm in a controlled situation.

  • @ShinySwalot
    @ShinySwalot 14 дней назад +5

    This is the type of content RUclips was made for lol

  • @A38
    @A38 15 дней назад +28

    Proud to be here before the "big spike" appeared on the youtube bar! Didn't skip ahead because it was quite surreal to see British maths man in the jungle. Bullet ants ft. Matt Parker is already on pace for most unexpected collaboration of 2025 as far as I'm concerned

    • @nerdy.noodles
      @nerdy.noodles 15 дней назад

      I was here too!

    • @Barlofontain
      @Barlofontain 15 дней назад +3

      He's Australian

    • @mattparker-2
      @mattparker-2 15 дней назад +1

      i'd say he's still more australian than british

    • @jimjjewett
      @jimjjewett 15 дней назад +1

      ​@@Barlofontainare you saying that he is from Australia, yet he had to go to the Amazon to find scary invertebrates? Was he sandbagging?

    • @Barlofontain
      @Barlofontain 14 дней назад

      @@jimjjewett HAHAHA... he is Australian, but he lives in the UK. The scariest thing we have is hedgehogs

  • @fnanfne
    @fnanfne 11 дней назад +2

    16:43 was not expecting that, laughed out loud, good show guise!

  • @jackys_handle
    @jackys_handle 14 дней назад +7

    There is an ant on the QR code. THERE IS AN ANT ON THE QR CODE.
    14:40 flight of the bumblebee remix begins

  • @BucketCapacity
    @BucketCapacity 13 дней назад +2

    As someone with a degree in math who also grew up watching Jackass, I absolutely love this video. By the way, Steve-O recently did a ranking of his most painful experiences, and a glove full of bullet ants was his 3rd most painful.

  • @Skrin19
    @Skrin19 14 дней назад +4

    In EMT school, one of my instructors preferred pain scale was "From one being no pain to 10 being mauled by a bear, how bad is it?"

  • @TheQuicksilver115
    @TheQuicksilver115 14 дней назад +1

    We're 5 mins in with a rate of about 1 visceral-pun-groan/min, this video is already amazing 😂
    This is certainly not what I expected and I LOVE it 😂 It just keeps getting better and better too, so many brilliant moments!
    Incredibly entertaining, we love maths!! 👏👏👏

  • @Skappy616
    @Skappy616 15 дней назад +10

    The moment you said that the sting is at the attention spike I had the same idea of manipulating the spike to be at a different position. I just didn't know yet which part people with the same thought could coordinate choosing

  • @jh5401
    @jh5401 3 дня назад

    i LOVE the callout of viewers skipping to the point you got stung on the video 😂😂

  • @jasonpatterson8091
    @jasonpatterson8091 14 дней назад +6

    Twice in my life I have been stung hundreds of times in a short period (multiple stings from the same insects, likely, but also dozens of insects stinging) after accidentally disturbing a yellow jacket nest (a type of North American wasp) while mowing and another time 50 or 60 times by honey bees while beekeeping (because I'm stupid). Judging by the reactions of the people in this video; I'd guess that that was substantially worse than a bullet ant. Both times with the yellow jackets I was just lying on the floor afterward for at least an hour, not moving because I didn't want my skin touching anything, and I was in pain or itching horribly for days, and the honey bee stings were absolutely miserable but significantly more bearable, except for the one in my nostril.

  • @MartinStockl
    @MartinStockl 14 дней назад +2

    A very cool video. Using just the median values of each species, to deal with the wide spread and the outliers, yields a very nice linear corroboration of your log5 hypothesis!

  • @brockmckelvey7327
    @brockmckelvey7327 15 дней назад +6

    I love the pun of "pain-sting by numbers"

  • @mozkitolife5437
    @mozkitolife5437 6 дней назад

    Matt, these are the kind of videos that people need to keep in mind when watching entertainment channels like Brave Wilderness versus your channel that includes actual science. There are tools and methods that people remain oblivious to while attempting to describe objective phenomena.

  • @Petch85
    @Petch85 15 дней назад +6

    It's been a while since I have seen Greg Foot. nice to see him again.

    • @GregFoot
      @GregFoot 15 дней назад +7

      *waves*

    • @Petch85
      @Petch85 15 дней назад +3

      @@GregFoot

  • @rogershakespeare3889
    @rogershakespeare3889 14 дней назад

    This was a great video. Thank you to Matt and everyone who voluntarily got stung.

  • @p7j5
    @p7j5 14 дней назад +3

    The end boss of things that induce pain in the amazon forest is in the amazon river : it's a stingray and you really don't want to be stinged by that one. The pain can last several weeks, and is orders of magnitude above a bullet ant sting.

  • @DrakiniteOfficial
    @DrakiniteOfficial 14 дней назад +2

    the "Schmatt pain index" had me laughing out loud

  • @abydosianchulac2
    @abydosianchulac2 15 дней назад +19

    "Can you assign a numerical value to pain?"
    Every patient in (at least) the American healthcare system: "Huh, what a _fascinating_ question!"
    [Edit to add:] The final bullet ant scores is actually a decent example of why having a scale for comparison is helpful for this. The fact several volunteers offered values several orders of magnitude lower than Matt's but would have agreed with his assessment suggests if they'd known that their scores were "allowed" to go that high they would have responded that way. Perhaps if the index were described logarithmically (not naming a value between 0-10, but asking if pain were in the tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, etc.) people might feel free to be more frank and might better assess what they're experiencing.

    • @andrewbacon3583
      @andrewbacon3583 15 дней назад +2

      How I feel today: 🤔

    • @jimjjewett
      @jimjjewett 15 дней назад +4

      For those not aware, doctors often ask you to rate your pain on a 1-10 scale. They rarely provide any calibration points, let alone guidance on whether it should be linear or logarithmic. Though it turns out *they* don't think in orders of magnitude, so don't go full on "I am alive and conscious, so it must be way below 10"

    • @dielaughing73
      @dielaughing73 12 дней назад

      ​@@jimjjewett on TV shows they always qualify the scale with "zero being no pain and ten being the worst pain you've ever felt', which seems pretty redundant

  • @martinmartinpl
    @martinmartinpl 7 дней назад +1

    I appreciate the Flight of Bumblebee remix lol