1000 years in the future, scientists stumble upon the corpse of Milo who had frozen to death, filming in his studio. His skeleton remains pointing at a non-existant wall behind him. They find scraps of mittens, and camera equipment. The prevailing hypothesis is ritualistic suicide. They're kind of right.
"This right here, is the remains of a man from the 21st century, we believe he was part of a cult called archelogy. They talked about and done ritualistic suicide, due to their curious behavior of digging up random shit." - Milo 2766
@@COMPYCUBE"Hark, child, and listen to me. These bones once belonged to an ancient cultist - a follower of the Old World religion of Arcka-logy. They were a peculiar sort; mine colleagues suspect that they may have been death priests, preserving and transporting the remains of the dead. The foolish call them scavengers, and others yet propose that they may have been cultists seeking to resurrect the forgotten dead. All hocwash. Clearly, they were scholars and wisemen, collecting bones to see the future closest to them." - Random future shaman or something, probably.
One reason why people died in this spot specifically is that in alpine regions, low spot, such as where a lake is, trap cold air and typically get significantly colder than surrounding areas. During a storm people will often take shelter in a such places not realizing that they are actually going into a more dangerous location. This is something that still kills hikers to this day.
@@ricebeansrockroll882 I believe they're referred to colloquially as "cold sinks" or "frost pockets." They can be dangerous for those unprepared. Militaries have fallen victim to them. Hikers and campers should try to understand their mechanics to avoid inadvertently camping within one.
@@ricebeansrockroll882if you see the tress struggling to grow in lower plain like areas its a giveaway, (most of the time there is a tree line like on a mountain)
you did not grow up on a cattle ranch then because when i see a cow skull or bone me and my cousins used to try and break them by throwing them on rocks
I love how u put the importance of leaving bones (and other findings) exactly as they are in focus. In so many fields people are destroying sooo much because they don't know and/or understand that just grabbing things, rearranging, destroying or taking away is extremly harmfull to what u want to find out or to the population etc. (As with plants, animals, stones, bones, shattered pieces of whatever, ...)
Even though fields have been ploughed many times, it's still important to leave things where they are as much as possible, or at least note down where you found things, since it will still represent the rough location it was found. Ever watched time team? I saw one episode where they excavated a burial ground that a guy found with a metal detector and when they had asked him "where did you find the grave?" he didn't know. He should have mark the location, but instead the weren't able to find that location again. they found other graves, but no the one he found.
@@ST-vt4nu Yeah absolutly. Sepcially when u find something and best is if u take pictures right away because that leaves less room for interpretation (or forgetting).
One of the most important rules of natural explorers of all kinds (hikers, divers, etc.) is taking nothing but pictures, and leaving nothing but footprints/bubbles. It’s sad when people don’t take that seriously. Even bones and other historical relics deserve the same respect we should show the natural environment.
The thing I find most fascinating about this is that one group was remembered for over 1000 years in the form of local mythology, yet the group from only a few hundred years ago seems to have been completely forgotten. No oral history, no records of their travels, nothing.
It makes me wonder how much smaller the second group was (like, did they just happen to get most of group B in the tested sample, rather than an even distribution of both groups?) But even if it was only a dozen or so people, you'd think people would remember that time a bunch of random strangers walked into the mountain and never returned.
There's a likely explanation. Group A had survivors that told the story. Group B either didn't have survivors or since they were foreigners they couldn't share their plight due to a language barrier
@@dominiklehn2866 Even if there were no survivors you’d think someone would know they were there, they had to have come from somewhere and met people along the way. A large group of foreigners travelling up a pilgrimage route undetected seems nearly impossible.
The two events could have become conflated. The current tellings of the myth might even contain newer elements derived from the second instance. *edited for clarity*
@@dominiklehn2866what I think could also be acontributing factor: social standing group A was local nobels and their "court" group B were just some unknown strangers, foreign in every sense of the word
I'm from Himachal Pradesh, India. Its a Himalayan state neighbouring Uttarakhand (the state where the Roopkund lake is). I cannot emphasize just how much damage tourists are doing to the natural ecosystem of these mountains. As Hindus, the Himalayas are a holy site for us. They're the abode of Lord Shiva and Goddess Parvati (as you mentioned), and there are hundreds of pilgrimage sites scattered all across the mountain ranges, each holding its different legend and story. Any time one visits these sites nowadays, though, all you can see are plastic wrappers and bottles, stray rubbish that tourists leave behind. Not only does it destroy the sanctity of the site, its also harmful for the local ecosystem. Last year's monsoons were some of the worst I have ever experienced in my life. Landslides, floods, you name it. We even lost many of our close friends due to it. The Himalayas are dying, and there's nothing us locals are able to do, because tourism makes up such a huge portion of our state's economy. For the tourists, its just a 5 day fun adventure, but for us, its our life, our neighbourhood, everything we've ever known. Sorry for the essay, just please, if you ever go out to visit another country or go hiking in the Himalayas, do your part, and respect whats been there thousands of years before you came along.
I will never understand people who claim to “love nature” littering. It’s rude, disgusting, and harmful. Soon there won’t be a place on earth without a dirty, unnaturally bright plastic bag on it. I hope people can change their attitude, especially people who go to these extreme places (who tend to be of a certain personality type - driven by the will to dominate without ever reflecting or encountering consequences).
@@KT-pv3kl that is a very fair statement, and going beyond that, not every person is going to share my particular ethical and moral codes and values, or share those exactly with any particular culture. I just can't fathom the thinking behind the process of using the remains of people who had lives, ambitions, hopes, dreams, and families like play-doh or lego bricks. I suppose my failing is that I expected that, when a massive lake full of bones is widely known about, nobody was going to do something that I perceive as stupid and disrespectful with the reasoning of "it'll be funny" or "there's plenty of bones out here for them to study" or maybe even "our houses are made of dead trees, nobody gets all weird about that"
@@raphaeldagamer Regardless of what that other person is trying to make you believe, yes it is considered very morbid/taboo to play with human remains in India and in Hindu culture in particular. Those "sculptures" look very recently made and the tourists who made them are sick fucks.
@@drewsify552 If HP Lovecraft taught us anything, it's that "Maine is a dangerous, forbidding country on par with Antarctica" is apt. The two places are even equally as eldritch, now that I think of it.
No, but seriously, in college during field school we hiked to an archaeological site that was pretty well-hidden but still technically within city bounds. The professor looked at us and went "if you tell anyone about this and I find it covered in beer cans and kicked over I will obliterate your fucking careers." SO YEAH, DON'T DISCLOSE THE LOCATIONS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.
ah, a video by a guy i've never heard of on a mystery i've never heard of in a field of study i know nothing about. *finally,* the video i've been looking for.
Yes. The 19th century was the period where wealthy europeans go around in the world to "explore" and "discover". So it would be coherent they were touring the world, hear in the local villages the story of the dead pilgrimage, and decide to hike around to find them.
Why do you post so much nuclear content but say nothing about other alternative energy solutions? Nuclear isn't the only alternative to fossil fuel. It's one thing to debunk scare mongering but there are still negatives to nuclear such as being too damn expensive for the energy it outputs... The fact that there are arguing fanboys here from a science channel is just sad. No critical thinking just insecurity over defending what you fanboy over Is it bad now to want channels to have the integrity to impartially post the pros AND the cons? Is it bad to want to mention how humanity has more alternatives to fossil fuel than just nuclear? Is it not possible to debunk stereotypes without being an evangelist? This is science, not a garbage TV show where you fanboy over your favourite character... Sad...
@@geteducatedyoufool4563 Because it's his channel and he can make videos about whatever he wants. The economics of nuclear energy are not exactly a simple topic, however common misconceptions about radiation and the "danger" of nuclear power are far simpler to explain to your average joe. While nuclear is quite profitable it tends to be a long-term investment, and the factors that play into how much the cost of a new power plant in a certain country in a certain moment will be can get rather complex.
Imagine knowing that, despite your bones ending up in a random lake with hundreds of others in a remote mountain pass, some hikers came along and said "Hey you know what'd be funny" and made sculptures out of your family's bones
My theory is that this is simply a thriving skeleton community, much like the catacombs in Paris, and they simply stay very still whenever anyone comes to visit. Hikers aren't aranging the bones in weird positions, they just like playing twister occasionally. Sadly due to a lack of skeleton jobs many skeletons have been migrating away to find work, soon this unvibrant community will vanish forever.
What else about these tourism and the building of “sculptures” is that these aren’t just bones, they’re the remains of people, people with all their own families, faiths, hopes, and dreams. Their memory is being desecrated. The only sign of them ever having existed is being turned into what? Sculptures and Souvenirs? I don’t know, but that’s not what I’d want my legacy to be-
Assuming there's no afterlife,those people don't exist anymore. They've been gone for a while. All it is is a set of bones that used to hold a person. The only thing wrong with it from an objective perspective removed of emotion is that they're destroying the chance for archaeology to discover more about the past.
@@thenoteworthy1298 Yeah,that's because your morals and emotions are connected. Something I've realised about myself this past week is that whatever nerve connects morality and emotions in the human brain just isn't there for me. As a result,I don't tend to connect the two things.
@@thenoteworthy1298 It's kinda weird when comparing myself to others. Objectively, I know right and wrong, and I can debate morality just fine, but even when I see something that's wrong, I don't have that immediate emotional reaction to it. As a result,if something is wrong for an emotional reason,I struggle to see it as wrong
It would be wild to find out that the group of foreigners had heard the myth of the failed pilgrimage and went to the lake to do the same sort of tourism we're seeing now.
Tip for you, when faced with a long and difficult to say word or name, try back-chaining it. This means starting with the last syllable(s) for practice, adding the second last, and so on. So for Pranavananda, you say "nanda", then "vananda", then "navananda", then "Pranavananda". Once you have said the whole thing once, it becomes less intimidating. But you only move on to the next stage when you have the previous one nailed in, repeat each one ten times or so, till you don't even have to worry about fumbling it. (This doesn't give any insight into the correct pronunciation of the name/word of course, you may need to look that up first - but it means you can say it with confidence) This also works really well for complete sentences in a foreign language; you break them into their constituent syllables, rather than just words, and you can learn to produce the sounds without your analytical brain interfering.
Also: remember that all words are "speakable". Sometimes it is just a matter of not using the stress/intonation you would use in your own language. Just try stressing each syllable to the same degree first.
Yes, and I would add: hide the part of the word you are not pronouncing yet. Just uncover each syllable as and when it is its turn to be pronounced. As a rule: when you are reading, use a blank piece of paper in which you have cut out a rectangle which has space for one line, and only about 5 words, and move this "window one as you read. And when you get to a full stop, oause and think of what you have read. It will make reading slow, but also very manageable and understandable, so in the end, you save time and energy. :)@@seyi6295
Hearing how this became a local legend reminds me of an archeological find here in Sweden, where on one of the larger islands there was a legend that people should not wander close to an ancient ruin, as something terrible might happen. Well, some years ago a gold find was discovered in those ruined remains, and of course our archeologists scattered to excavate the place to try and find what rested there. What they found shocked them, because the place was a small town, and they found over a dozen dead bdies, left as they were slain. They reasures remained, they found evidence of meals having been eaten as the attackers came. No one had gone back to bury the dead. We still don't know the full story and it is still an excavation, but from what we can find out. During the 5th 6th century AD, some outside group attacked the town at night, slaughtered all men and either kidnapped the woman or killed them at another location. The people who either witnessed or survived likely carried down the terror so locally it was told: "Something awful happens at Sandbyborg" If you find any paper on it, I'd recommend you check it. It's literally the Swedish equivalence of Pompeii
@@pvp6077 Actually, most Swedish archeologists believe the raid was done by other islanders, who wanted to destroy the town's influence. I got the timeline a little wrong, it was 4th century, not 5th, 6th. But it fellaround the end of the Roman empire, and some believe it was a loyal pro Roman outpost, and not a popular one.
isn't there little evidence for mass slaughter other than dead bodies? I remember reading about it and the arrangement of remains, lack of weapon discoveries, the fact the precious items weren't looted, and the location of site kinda point to it not being a massacre... a natural disaster seems a more fitting explanation
On the topic of that sweatshirt, I bought one pretty much the same day I watched this video. It came in a couple of weeks ago, and I have worn it consistently around my home since. It's super comfortable - just warm enough without being stifling - and I absolutely love the design as someone who does tarot readings as a pass time.
@@sensiesama2713 yes, because it is actually pretty damn difficult to identify someone's gender from bones alone if the important bones are not around, and in this case, it was a wonder they even got 2
@@sensiesama2713 Good scientists do not draw definitive conclusions from inadequate evidence, they learn to sit with ambiguity while the search for answers continues.
@@danielflanard8274 again, pretty rich for you to say that while you defend biased content in your reply to me. Tell me what part of the need to discuss pros AND cons you disagree with
@@geteducatedyoufool4563 I have encountered many people on this platform. It is only the difficult ones who follow me into other unrelated threads to insult my character instead of addressing my reply to them in the relevant thread. It is pretty rich that you are accusing everyone of ignoring your arguments while posting two nearly identical replies on two different threads, both of which do not address any of the counterarguments I made to your comments.
Tourists taking bones as souvenirs is actually f*cked. What do they do with the bones when they get home? Hang it on the wall as a trophy "hey look what i got while climbing this mountain range"
It could be worse. Knowing what conspiracy nuts do with stones and such pilfered from ancient sites as well, it's very likely some are also desecrated trying to find the giant dna.
As soon as you said "Time in running out" I immediately knew what the reason was gonna be. Tourist is the absolute bane on every single historical and important site. A recent example being Chernobyl and how tourism is actively destroying everything there. To the point where people are bringing highly radioactive items back with them.
@@hesya5400 Except that these people are bringing back stuff like a shoe, a shoe which is so radioactive it's gonna give you cancer if you have it beside you.
People really need to learn to leave things be instead of thinking they're somehow the main character and destroying these places for touristic reasons.
As soon as you said, "What's one going to do" I subscribed. I live in a tourist area where people take that mentality all the time; mostly the tourists. The stuff that people rip out of the ground and tear off natural formations where I live is ridiculous. I don't know why people don't understand that by taking something you are damaging the same place that you came to visit.
I think an aspect of it is to create a souvenir. To the tourist who do that, they don’t give a fuck they just want a physical reminder of the trip. To them their memory is more important than the enjoyment of everyone.
I do too! I have worked it toom but amazingly, I have no bad stories from working. But living here I have plenty. You should how much trash they leave behind....
Grew up on Nantucket island. It's one thing when all the local kids are carving into the local love tree, it's another thing when tourists decide it's a tourist hotspot and damage the tree so much that it has to be cut down. See also: our dunes and bluffs being home to a lot of endangered species that nest there, and tourists thinking that climbing the dunes is harmless. I've seen damage from locals, but never to the extent of a single tourist on a bender.
Could you maybe push for the government to put up signs near these sites that damaging or even touching and thus altering the local eco system will be punished with a fine or even jail time? put up some cameras and the majority of people will think twice about damaging things. In a lot of countries there are laws about preserving things like landmarks and eco systems. Otherwise, maybe even just a sign asking people to respect the site will make people realize they're being a-holes before acting.
it is massively disrespectful to the place you are visiting and the people who occupy it. I will never understand it. This example is especially disgusting to me though, disturbing the remains of people is awful, and I don’t understand why someone would want to do that in the first place.
I live in New Delhi, and hiking in the Himalayas is a passion. The trek to Roopkund Lake, although very difficult, is one of the most popular treks here. I was fortunate to have been there in 2007, right after the monsoons, and the landscape was otherworldly. I also noticed, and the mountain guides told me many stories, of how tourists would take back bones as souvenirs. Also the pilgrimage you talked about, that happens once in 12 years, is called the Nanda Devi Jat, and it is a sight to behold. all the Himalayan villages in the state of Uttarakhand have their own deities, and the villagers carry their gods and meet up on the meadows at the base of Roopkund, and travel beyond the Junargali Pass (It is pronounced with the J sound, and not with the H sound). One interesting ritual that happens on this 'yatra' (Hindi, for pilgrimage) is that a young goat is released in the wild, bedecked in gold jewellery worth millions, as an offering to the Goddess. Nobody follows the goat after it is released, and it is never seen again.
Damn.. Imagine just chilling around a fireplace with your homies in the 9th century, and seeing a baby goat COMPLETELY decked out in gold and jewelry😂😂
I came to this video thinking it was a group of pilgrims that were killed in a hale storm, but it's so interesting to find out that there were three separate groups that the bones belonged to. This is intriguing, to say the least. Definitely threw me for a loop.
Milo, first of all, thank you for making these videos and second of all, please don't skip making any videos "because people studied this or that in school". I'm from Argentina, currently living in the US and I had no idea these sites existed. I'm really happy to be able to learn about this land from you, you're great at what you do and I hope you continue teaching us about the archeology of the whole world!
Now to piss him off: These people were subjects of a natural phenomenon that teleports people from random places around the world to that one unfortunate place, and only during hailstorms.
This is the only theory that sufficiently explains that one lonely spearhead. Someone mentioned SCP, I thought of Pratchett's Discworld, Red Dwarf and/or The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :)
I think the High court has banned trekking on the local meadows since 2018, which basically closed the Roopkund route since then. There may be a couple of trekking agencies that might defy this order in secret but, I think the trek is closed as of now. It is pretty sad that the remains were moved as part of a photo opportunity by some of the trekkers. Great video- loved it btw!
I am Garhwali (Western part of Uttarakhand, where the lake is) there is also a common known folk song that narrates what happened there. Also there destruction caused by outsiders coming in is massive and irreversible. The present condition of the Himalayas is just sad and as a native Himalayan it just hurts even more to know what is happening to my ancestral lands. As a Garhwali ,the biggest joke is the sheer fact we are the only Himalayan state that doesn't have any laws that protects the natives of Uttrakhand - the Garhwalis and Kumaonis . Or the fact that we Garhwalis and Kumaonis don't have any say in our own ancestral land and pahadi state. Uttrakhand needs land laws and we the natives want to be heard. As this has already lead to our culture being 90% destroyed and also our own languages - Garhwali and Kumaoni not being recognised in our own state. Also out of the 1700 villages in Uttarakhand , 700 villages are already ghost villages because the government refuses to listen to the natives will and wishes. As a micro minority community this is of the most important issue that needs to addressed , as we are the ones in danger.
These mfs are same they don in metro cities and when it comes to their state thry be like guys stop it all this problem you should ask to your CM he won't do anything tell your cm to create jobs so that you guys won't come to south india or delhi mumbai for jobs live there and save your land
Would you mind telling us what the song tells ? Is that the same folk stuff than he said, the one about deity revenge and iron balls falling from the sky ?
Yeah... all one has to do is mention the mountain named Chomolungma, only to be given a blank stare, to see just how entrenched the effects of colonialism (physical, intellectual, etc) are, even to this day. Really!
@@Women-hate-me What the FUCK ? No wonder women do not find you attractive (Incel much? It's your own fault!)... look up the terms 'neocolonialism' and 'cognitive dissonance', eh? Jeez. Wow.
@@Diss0lvant If my memory serves me right, the song narrates that back in the days(probably centuries ago or thousand years ago) there was a King and a Queen who were trying for a child but they had no success, then one day someone from the mystics side mentioned to the couple to try to apple to the Mountain Devi(closest loose English translation is Mountain female deity)(Gods/Goddess is not a thing). And when they followed the mystics advice, they were blessed with a child. Overjoyed with the birth of their own child the King and Queen announced that they will take a pilgrimage to the Mountains where the Devi's temple/structure is located, and perform a big procession and rituals for thanking and appreciating her(Devi) and ask for her blessing. But apparently on the journey they did something very bad, that enraged the Devi enough to the point, where she punished them with a Hail, which ended up crushing their skulls and killing the entire procession.
I wasn't, I stop listening whenever I hear imperial measurements. We tried compromising, it doesn't work. Use metric, or assume that everybody outside the US isn't going to understand.
If Milo didn't care enough to list something literally on the Thermometer, then I don't care if he was listing F⁰ and will take his readings as C⁰. Further more, I won't even question why he was wearing an awful lot of cold weather clothes for such warm temperatures either.
hey! Indian here. thanks for making at least an effort into pronouncing most of those names correctly. Good job! Also thanks for covering an archeological story from home! A lot of our archeology is often either overlooked or manipulated into religious propaganda, so this was awesome to watch.
Good on you bringing attention to non-western archeologists/politicians exploiting and misappropriating history, theres usually a lot of the opposite for some reason.
@@user6122Lol that mostly comes from not wanting to mess it up. As someone who has a short name that is very easily messed up. I'd prefer it not said than mispronounced like it has for almost my entire life.
@@user6122 I work with a large number of immigrants, they do the exact same thing to English because of how hard it is to learn. It's funny how white people are all "We have to do better! We give up on words that are hard to pronounce." Meanwhile everyone around them actively avoid words to say due to them being difficult. We're all the same on this regard, nobody is doing a better job than anyone on this case.
How strong is this religious propaganda in india? I keep hearing about some revisionist crap like "India invented nukes a millenia ago", but how does religion come into this?
Not only is it horrible that people were moving bones, taking bones, but it's incredibly disrespectful to these people who died an awful, horrific, and painful death. These people should feel ashamed for even thinking it's okay to be moving and taking such important history away. I'm honestly quite disgusted with anyone who has done this. I know those who died possibly can't rest in peace, but if there's an afterlife, I hope they're all warm and happy. My any god or deity rest their souls :(
I'm often haunted by the fact I once sat down to rest on a hike and couldn't find the strength to get back up. It was a visceral panic that set in as I felt myself relax into a dreamlike state. I was able to continue but I was nowhere near 16k. It was a mountain valley with vegetation clear to the top, perhaps a few thousand feet above sea level
I know exactly what you're talking about. It's a pretty strange feeling. I literally had to use all my remaining strength and will to continue my walk home. I was on a hike by myself late winter in the prairies. I decided I wouldn't hike alone anymore or at least have proper supplies if I'm on an extended hike.
I remember cycling up the Stelvio, a mountain pass in Italy above the vegetation line. It felt like the mountain was angry with me and send evil spirits to stop me. The thin air results in less oxygen being available to you and significantly lowers how efficient your muscle can work. An impressive experience
You keep saying "Nanda Devi"... But... That's the name of the mountain(s) where Parvati lives with Shiva. Sati-Parvati aka Kali aka Durga is the name of the goddess you're talking about. "Nanda Devi" is just a title that translates to something like "joy-giving goddess". Sati-Parvati is a favorite of mine, so it's weird to have her talked about with a title and name for her holy mountain instead of her name.
Ohhh I see! Thank you for the distinction here. That was a little unclear in a lot of the sources I was going over discussing the local oral tradition. I appreciate you lending your expertise.
For some reason I thought Shiva and Vishnu were married so when he said that I thought something was off but I looked it up and I too was wrong 😂 The more you know 🌈⭐️
@@th3grav3mak3rgaming8lord Shiva and lord Vishnu still love each other just as much as they love their wives. Legends say that half of their heart is dedicated to entirely each other and other half to their wives and their devotees. They also had a child together when lord Vishnu transformed into his female avatar mohini.
@@miniminuteman773 Hinduism has had a lot of syncretism over the centuries, so it's not surprising to have gotten lost on who is who based on when and where you're talking about. And when you have a big goddess like Sati-Parvati who is also like 4 (to even as many as 10) other goddesses, it's easy to misplace who she is. And this is even before you get into sectarian differences.
@@omkartelang1064 Namaskaram. To add to what you said, many Shaivites (Shiva devotees) and Vaishnavas (Vishnu devotees) will also tell you that Shiva and Vishnu are the highest form of each other. I love the plural nature of Hinduism ❤️🕉️😁 Har har Mahadev
It seems too coincidental that Group B just happened to all die in that very same place under Group A. A more likely scenario is that this place was actually the lair of a dragon, and it was just taking its victims here. Only thing that makes that unlikely is there should be a lot of treasure here.
Archaeogenetics and Archaeolinguistics researcher here. The sample in the Roopkund C genetic cluster is highly shifted towards the Nicobarese. There is an astounding level of Austroasiatic/Laos Bronze Age admixture in this sample, more than the vast majority of modern Southeast Asians.
@@Preston241 This would imply two things 1) this mf was either from Nicobar and the Andaman Islands (which is where North Sentinel is btw), or his ancestors were. That is... oddly specific... But since his diet did not consist of much seafood, him or his ancestors likely moved Inland, either to another part of South Asia or for some reason to Anatolia. 2) The Laotian part may mean that at some point there were people from Laos (very inland) who may have moved to this god forsaken island chain for whatever reason. Personally I find this very absurd. Moreover, given the vast amount of seafood that Greek people normally consume, it is weird how their diet didn't seem to consist of much seafood. We don't know if group B and C actually met however so that is one question unsolved.
13:11 nah lol, “insofar” means “to the extent that”. Your thermometer is ideal for an international audience, insofar as it helps you report both Fahrenheit and Celsius temperatures. Your clothes kept you warm insofar as they could, despite your coat being unbuttoned.
the disregard people have towards bones is so disheartening, especially when it comes to unknown bodies like theirs. they died without their names and now we will probably never know
For real, I just can't imagine coming across an ancient skull and thinking, "this'll make a killer Instagram post!" That skull was a full person, it was you hundreds of years ago. Pay respect to those who came before, and pass it on so future generations will do the same for your skull
you ever heard of bone ghazi? the roopkund lake bones reminds me of that TLDR is: tumblr witch uses bones for magic, which were taken from a cemetary in louisiana when it would flood and the bones would float up and away from their graves, and if she had excess she would sell them to people around the country for similar purposes there's a Whang! video about it that covers it in detail but pretty fucked up scenario, like how the tourist bone moving situation is at roopkund lake
The fact that freezing leaves no marks on the bones is in itself a great thing, because if the bones of Group B/C don't show any trauma, like Group A with their cracked skulls, it means they they did probably die via a means that leaves no marks. I have to wonder what the life of that lone individual from Group C was like. They, or their family, came from somewhere in Malaysia, somehow met up with a bunch of Greeks and they all went up a mountain in the Himalayas and died. What a life.
There was a greek kingdom in pakistan that lasted for a while until the 1st century AD. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom. Could have been some isolated villages with mostly greek blood still back then. The malay guy probably would have from a mostly muslim area by then. Probably all the descendents of the indo-greek kingdom would have been muslim too. I'm guessing back then there was a lot of trade and travel going on around that time throught that whole area from south asia to southeast asia. Wouldn't be surprised if they were muslim missionaries, or just friends traveling... maybe they met while traveling... maybe they decided to take a side trip and investigate the lake they heard about from some of the locals.
@@davidnoll9581 Honestly this seems quite possible. For adventurous people travelling through this area hearing this story it would be quite tempting to check it out I would say
I do not understand peoples love of the "hailstorm" explanation. As a meteorologist it has always struck me as just so, so impossible that a hailstorm that severe could impact such a high altitude area. While large hail is very common in lower elevations of (mostly eastern) India, and *small* hail is very common in high-altitude places, large hail capable of injuring is *incredibly* uncommon at very high altitudes, to the point of being practically impossible above 10,000 feet in elevation. Why could the legend of "iron balls from the sky" not just come from a rockslide, a very common cause of death in that area?
My first instinct was actually that it was the blizzard that she sends in the story, much likelier and the head damage on the few skulls that had it could be post mortem. But the hail does make for a better story
Part of me is skeptical of a rockslide because with my very limited knowledge I feel like a rockslide would bury the remains. Please correct me or explain the flaws in my logic I have no research at all in this.
I teach avalanche safety courses and my first thought was avalanche. Roughly 30% of avalanche victims die of trauma, the rest could have just asphyxiated under the debris. If it was a bad avalanche zone on a pilgrimage route that pilgrims traveled regularly, multiple parties could have died and been buried in debris that may have rarely melted. It’s even possible that the route avoided all but the most extreme avalanche hazards, when large, rare avalanches did happen, the debris would reach the path and burry any parties on it. Such a large avalanche could create basically a temporary glacier, snow and ice that doesn’t ever fully melt and is known for churning and scattering bones as it moves down hill.
I just want to say: I know you do a few retakes every now and then, but I really, really love the format of your content and how comfortable it is. It's like having a roundtable with friends-- not watching a natgeo doc. The atmosphere, approach, and even minimal example material is perfect for the kind of content that has been shown to work for learning, especially in those with ADD and other similar conditions. You're doing something incredibly helpful for so many-- and I wanted to thank you for it. I was desperate to be an Egyptologist as a kid. Being a female in Egypt though? Bad play. I live so vicariously through this channel, though not Egypt (mostly!) and feel so comfortable by the lack of talking-down to your audience that you do. Respectful, comfortable, humorous, and extremely well-researched. I can't fathom having any negative feelings to your work. Continue to be you.
The dead don't care what happens to their bones. The real problem is like he states in the video: altering the site destroys important archeological context.
I wouldn't be surprised in the 1700 group was doing it to look for loot. Rumors of a goddess in a mountain is bound to have some gold or something. In their heads anyways.
@@duudsuufd Not even close to the same thing 🤦 the tourists destroy it for NO REASON. Real archeologists do it to LEARN and TEACH about the remains and location. For stealing you want the British museum.
First, as a college professor, the inspirational speech you gave at about 29:55 actually made me clutch my heart. This sort of curiosity and wonder is *precisely* what I want my students to learn. Second, this was a *fascinating* video; I hadn't even heard of this site, and the history/mystery fascinates me. I'll definitely be doing more research. Third, I'm very glad you didn't succumb to hypothermia in the making of this video. :)
I'm so glad you covered this, I saw the hailstorm explanation years ago and just moved on with my life, but the truth is so much more fascinating and tragic. And tho too many people see look human bones as souvenirs, the comments suggest there are just as many (if not more) people who'd leave another dead body on that mountain if they caught someone trying it.
I've spent a fair amount of time in high altitude places in the winter. I feel like I can pretty much tell what happened. They were hiking, and that seemed like a reasonable place to hunker down because it's probably out of the wind in a big storm. But then the wind stops and it turns into a cold sink. It can drop to temperatures you just can't function in within a very short period of time. You never want to camp in a natural depression in the winter. It may seem better, because hey, no wind. And during a storm it can seem warmer. It's just when the storm passes and it has time to create a temperature inversion that it sucks.
I saw a wilderness survival video that listed "low ground or hollows" as one of the basic mistakes people make in trying to locate a good place when caught without proper resources.
The lone group C person is probably the most fascinating part of this for me! We dont know why their group went into the mountains, what their connection with Group B exactly was, and why they were so far away from their ancestral area/home/possibly birth place and family to have ended up with the group in the first place! We dont even know (currently) if they were the only of their descent at the lake. The story writer in me is captivated by this one person that (likely) died from cold they were unprepared for on top of a mass grave of people from hundreds of years before and the life they lived that we likely will never know becides the food they were eating
What if they were opium runners, and that lone guy wasn't traveling with them, but met them there? "That one lake full of bones, ask the locals" seems like a good smuggler's point.
during this time malay sultanates were under the suzerainty (protection from and pledges to) the ottoman empire, since it's the dominant islamic empire of its day, so there would've been some contacts. i am not saying this is why, just a thing to consider
@@violasses No no you're probably on to something, like...if you're right the whole thing lines up beautifully. Ottoman people undergoing an expedition of India with a Malay guide somewhat from closer place with maybe some experience with the place/locals previously. If they can actually get a Malay guy to go with them, they either knew the person or the person was ordered. In the latter case (less so in the former) it is more likely that there will be Ottoman records from the time (Which I'm sure someone has thought about before surely, to check with the old Empire's archives but hey, a man can dream.) which means we may even be able to find out whether this was something official or at least, recorded. There is hope.
Hello, Ottoman history enthusiast here. My theory is that this later group were Balkan Christian slaves who were sold by the Ottoman Empire to further east in Turkestan, which explains why none of them appeared to be related. The period in which they would have lived correlated with political instability in the Qing Dynasty and endless amounts of military struggles as well as uprisings in Tibet, Xinjiang, and Turkestan. The fact that these weren’t pilgrims make it seem highly unlikely they would pick such a hard route if they had the choice. They must have fled from wherever they were through the Himalayas, not properly nourished, ill-equipped, and not knowing of the conditions that will meet them as. The reason why they didn’t go to the nearest human presence might be because they’re evading capture, as a lost band Mediterranean descended would have been incredibly notable to locals who would reveal their location to whoever was after them. It was due to these circumstances that these people met their tragic ends in such a remote lake.
The amount of disrespect someone must have to not only move someone else's remains for no good reason, but also take them home or build STATUES out of them, is vile. These people likely met a very grim death, and now their only remaining memory, their bones, are being used as toys. It's sick behavior.
Every culture in the world has respect for the dead. Many in different ways. Yet these monsters see skeletons and pieces of the past as play things or oddities. I was in a drawing class and we have a real human skeleton (1900s we know and I think that somewhere they have more info on them but it was a medical donation) and I was anxious to touch respectfully yo change their pose. Many would see a skeleton and assume it’s fake or a play thing. That is why when the skeleton was part of the medical school long ago someone stole part of its arm. My professor was the one who rescued it and hauled a large cabinet to his room with a lock to protect it. I’ve always thought that respect for the dead is a common thing… not stealing and disrespectfully moving or touching them unless you have a actual connection to them. Like many cultures do with family members. But the more I have heard of the world and tourists the more it’s all wrong…. I’ve been to places with skeletons before like Pompeii and I have been in silence observing them and I’ve been in a small catacomb when I was in middle school and yes I did have a anxiety attack but I kept myself together… just something about the bones separated and like sorted by part just was anxiety inducing somehow for my mind. My grandma passed in the fall and we haven’t been able to hurry her due to the cold ground but her box of ashes is on our fireplace mantle and I hug it. I feel embarrassed to admit but I sat with her on new years because she never got to see 2024. Death is such a part of humanity yet those who disrespect it are monsters. Or not just monsters but people who have to respect for others or where they are or anything or anyone. Sorry for the rambly rant.
People camping in a frost hollow due to it having a lake in it. Frost hollows get way colder then the mountains that form them. it could have been -70F in that basin when they died.
I didn't know this! I know temperatures can drop as you go up in altitude but I didn't consider that formations or landscapes in the mountains could alter the tempature as well.
Could also have been camping there in order to avoid some kind of harsh weather. As you said, it was in a hollow, which could have shielded them from some very harsh winds. Both of these groups could just have used this hollow as shelter from some strong winds, but instead they froze to death due to how cold air behaves.
@Rey-it3sg Yeah. You just need to make simple cover. Don't use hollows. The wind passing above draws the heat out and their shape means sun light only gets in if the sun is right above.
@@Rey-it3sg It can also be warmer on the top of the lowest slope in a valley. The heat rising up the valley reaches this first. It's often visible on the landscape.
I'm ok with the pilgrimage hypothesis being the most believable one, but ritualistic suicide not being plausible because no signs of violent death? That's a bad argument imho, throwing yourself in a freezing lake in the Himalayas would probably be enough, some of them hitting their head on the rocks on the way down to explain the head trauma on some of them, and i don't know why he talked about the spear in the suicide part, you don't use a polearm to stab yourself to death. The way he's talking about it sound more like ritualistic sacrifice, not suicide.
Also, they don’t have enough soft tissue to prove anything. If somebody’s throat is cut, if they are stabbed in the abdomen or even if they are poisoned, you can’t tell by the bones 😂
Imagine freezing to death and thinking your last thoughts, only to glance over and see, under the ice, the bones of those who came before you Fucking terrifying
Ghost of a Newly Dead Pilgrim, "Am I dead?" Ghost of an Ancient Dead Pilgrim, "Yeah, but it ain't bad. We'll be okay so long none disturbs our bones." Ghost of a Newly Dead Pilgrim, "No worries on that score, I guess; what kind of moronic ass-wipe would mess with such sad relics as ours?"
@@airplanes_aren.t_real some people in the comments above are speculating that it could have been something conceptually similar, a basin of cold air, starts getting cold and everyone's dead fast enough that there are no survivors (especially since how would they know that in other places it's better if they let's say didn't know about that cold air hollow concept).
Considering how the bones are being removed, damged, destroyed, etc. by tourists and potentially even the ever changing environment, perhaps the loner of "Group" C wasn't truly alone, or perhaps there may have been more loners or groups present at one point
Finally, now THIS is the type of "unsolved mysteries" videos that I want - not the ones that romanticize the lack of answers but rather more like a detective story where clues lead to solutions of a puzzle. Also, I have a theory, since you mentioned these people were related to Ottoman Empire, I think they might be a local tribe with Indo-Greek ancestry. When Alexander the Great invaded India, many Greeks and their descendants settled down in the place. Also, there might be similar Greek descendants in the Ottoman Empire, which is why the genes matched up. So, rather than them being distant migrants, they might be a local population that has greek ancestry.
That doesn't explain Malayan dude (while Ottoman expedition could have one as Ottomans had traded with them and could have hired one as guide). I thought about local Greek colonists too, but I think they would be heavily intermixed with locals by now and DNA test could easily tell you that...
Yes but: we know that Alexander's crowd mixed with the local population. This was partly due to the fact (if memory serves) that not many of them remained, and they were mostly male.
I think this is a great theory but we have no evidence of the individuals being closely related or having similar genetic markers other than geographical area of origin. A local population would probably have some genetically similar inderviguals (family units), it is possible that we haven't found them yet but it would be expected that a local population of mixed age and gender would have family units within it.
Since Milo didnt want to convert the temperature, i will assume he means 23C, which is a comfortable room temperature and he is just being a baby about it.
New Englanders wouldn't be wearing gloves in 60F-70F weather 😅 honestly wearing them around freezing doesn't happen much (0F however, that's glove weather)
Solution: They were time-travelling Japanese soldiers (with a small squad of Italian soldiers) seeking to sneak-attack India through the mountains several hundred years before they would be expected. But, as the Terminator films have taught us, you can't travel back in time with your clothes and weapons.
I mean you also have to correct for the movement of the earth through space. Have to imagine it's hard to correct for that without issue so maybe they plan to arrive somewhere else and forgot to carry the 2 and ended up in the Himalayas. It's just occums razor, none of "science" non-sense to disprove such a clear and simple theory
I have to add to your talk about context: paleontologists, especially dinosaur/vertebrate paleontologists, really struggle with this too. Fossil poachers will take specimens from places and sell them online, including significant ones. It's why there was such a mad scramble to find the man who found the neotype Spinosaurus's bones. Ever since it was discovered there have been poachers around the site, so paleontologists Ibrahim et. al. have been working hard to find more of the fossil (It was the paper with the tail). Even tourists struggle with poaching, as fossil tourism is a thing. Moving a fossil (or archeological find) causes much of the context behind it to be lost, especially so in paleontology, where the specimen is essentially useless for science without it. Basically, if you find a fossil or archeological find, leave it where it is, and notify the relevant authorities. Doubly so for human remains, as they may be from a murder.
@danny.55 Your humor would blend perfectly with the Sahara. You've found a joke unfunny because a person said "Egyptian pyramid" instead of just pyramid. Here's a lesson for the class, you're a wonderful example of irony. It's more grounded than you think, I've heard substantially more people believe specifically that the Pyramids of Egypt were built by alien. Very few times have I have heard someone say "The Pyramids of the Aztec people were built by aliens."
@danny.55 You can make jokes about gay and black people, you just have to be funny when doing it. It's just rare that people with no insight into the subject of their own material are funny.
The ending was heartbreaking, its such a crazy mystery that we literally have all these bones, have no idea how they got there and people are rapidly destroying the site's context. I hope we can let these people rest someday. Thanks a lot Milo, we are glad you're back ❤️
That’s something that always catches my attention. It’s extremely disrespectful to the real human beings whom those bones belonged to. These were real people at some point, the only people who have a right to mess with them are the scientists who can do so without disrespecting the real people. Just because they died a long time ago doesn’t make it ok, and I always see this stuff happening disproportionately to non-white remains. Sorry for poor English.
It makes me sick that people are disturbing this sight, especially that they are making "sculptures" with and stealing the human remains. It's so completely disrespectful, selfish, and short sighted.
I mean it's probably ignorant New Age spiritual types of tourists who think they're "honoring" the dead by building impromptu cairns with their bones, rather than allowing them to sit scattered in the lake bed. Doesn't excuse it, but that's the most likely explanation.
I mean, to play Devil's Advocate for a minute here, there are entire cultures that arrange the bones of the dead in an artistic manner. The Paris Catacombs are literally tunnels and walls lined with the sorted and stacked bones of millions of people. The ancient Levant was home to Skull Cults that cleaned, decorated, and displayed the skulls of dead ancestors. Norse seers and volgas would use the bones of the dead as scrying or fortune telling tools. The arranging of human remains into sculpture is actually an ancient practice, with roots in many cultures. It's entirely possible that some of these may be done by people who were truly showing their respects.
@@SkunkApe407all these people are so sensitive to all the wrong things that dont even matter. They will complain all day long about other people's actions online. 😂 They are all jokes
How self-absorbed do you have to be to go "yeah, let's play around with this human body, that sounds like a great idea." I feel like if most people saw a skeleton, we'd have the good sense to not do such a thing, but then, it only takes a handful of idiots to ruin something for everyone.
It's common for hikers to use human bones as trail markers. No waste, using available resources, and piled bones stand out amidst the rocks. If you found out about hikers that had done that 3000 years ago you would think it was a cultural artifact and respect the custom, so why hold modern hikers to a different standard?
If you are familiar with ohms law, you will know that the total resistance of a parallel circuit is less than the smallest resistor. In the same way, the effective intelligence of many groups of people is less than the most ignorant ass among them.
Middle aged archeology major with a life long obsession in said topic & this is the first time ive heard of Roopkund Lake. Super cool! Keep up the great work Milo!
One thing that comes to mind at the mention of Greeks deep in Asia is the Indo-Greek and Greco-Bactrian Kingdoms from antiquity. These were formed following Alexander the Great’s conquests of Central Asia. These were of course never fully Greek, but there were significant amounts of Greek settlers who lived in these regions and Greek was spoken there for centuries. Despite this I find it unlikely that any Greek populations would have survived for the nearly two millennia required to be able to participate in the doomed expedition of Group B without being assimilated into local culture. The prospect of an isolated inland community living on from antiquity is fascinating nonetheless.
Yeah, that was my first thought, but as there's over a millenium between the first Indo-Greeks and the demise of group B they would have been fully assimilated, including genetically, so wouldn't be able to be identified as uniquely Greek.
@@Quintinohthree that’s exactly what I was thinking. There is theoretically a remote possibility of an isolated village of Indo-Greeks surviving somehow, but that’s incredibly unlikely and we’d probably know about it.
@@Florian87 maybe group B was made up of people going to visit the remnants(I'm not sure if the area and buildings of those kingdoms are more like ruins, semi preserved but in disrepair, or nearly non existent so please correct me) with the person who made up group C being their guide, there also could've been more people in group C but we just don't know due to modern day tourists enjoying the morbid idea of "human legos" and/or there were other parts of group B/C who were separated somehow.
@@mindless_drift to my knowledge very little of the Ancient Greek cities in Central Asia remain beside some strewn ruins. I suppose it’s possible the group was visiting, but that wouldn’t explain what they were doing so far east beyond where any old cities would have been. It’s an interesting idea though.
Love how Milo realized that there's celcius marking on the thermometre, commented on it, said he won't need to convert the numbers in his posts at least, then *still* proceded without saying what the temperature is in celcius. Now I feel he's just bullying people. XD
He is at this point you have got to have seen the sly grin after stating that for the nth time and even zooming in on it but putting the Celsius juuust out of frame :D
Since we’re talking about Nanda Devi, I have to bring up one of my favorite weird history moments: when the CIA hired a bunch of professional alpinists to put a nuclear powered listening device on top of Nanda Devi mountain. They had to leave it behind when they were caught by bad conditions, and never found it when they went back to look.
@@santiagogarza8121 With this kinds of devices, as long as the housing isn't breached or removed it wouldn't irradiate anyone or anything. But more than a couple nuclear contamination accidents have occurred from people opening them not knowing what they were, looking for metal to sell as scrap. Russia was infamous for using these in austere conditions and they were "orphaned" and caused accidents as civilians found them later and opened them not knowing
I love that you're including your sources in the description now; just last month I was writing a paper on interpretations of Karahan Tepe, and while I did use your video on the topic, I thought that it would be great if you were to include a source list in the comments or in the description... do you still have source lists for the Turkey archaeology videos, and is it possible to add them to those descriptions??
I really like that you leave mistakes and flubbed takes in your videos. It really makes you more relatable and allows the viewer to connect with both you as the presenter and the material.
Milo: Repeatedly refers to how freezing cold the room is. Also Milo: Mentions that there's snow in the fireplace. Me, a Canadian: Makes frustrated gestures at the screen and wonders if I can order a cord of firewood for delivery. I know Milo loves the outdoors, but has he explained why he's recording in an unheated studio? I worry for his health!
He explained the studio in his video celebrating being over a million subs and announcing "Phase Three" of the channel, so I'd suggest watching it to get the full breakdown, but the tl;dr is that he bought a house that is... Very much showing its 100+ years and the studio space in particular needs a lot of work that he simply hasn't been able to get done yet but it's still useable enough.
He's still renovating this house and his studio in particular has zero insulated walls, if I remember correctly. Check the house tour for the actual information, but it was something about the room not being renovated yet.
Masking tape is great for framing production wise. You can put tape on the walls to indicate where the frame boundaries are in real space without having to run to the camera to check. You can even do thing like make a tape outline that shows you where you can operate within, without being in the way of something thrown up in post. Can also outline the stands for filming equipment, So if you need to move it, you can put everything back exactly how it was. Masking tape is the best to do this with because it doesn't peel paint, leave residue, it's about as easy to remove as to put on (leave yourself a pull tab) and you can write on it with sharpie easily without it smearing or bleeding through.
23:58 The one member of Group C was actually of Southeast Asian descent. "We were unable to model the Roopkund_C individual as a genetic clade with any present-day populations, but we were able to model its ancestry as ~82% Malay-related and ~18% Vietnamese-related using qpAdm7, showing that this individual is consistent with being of Southeast Asian origin." Though I understand the confusion since the paper also suggests Roopkund_C had East Asian-related ancestry at the beginning of the paper.
Correct! That is why I specified that they were close the Malay people since that is the largest genetically similar modern group to them. I did miss the south East Asian specificity in my East Asian descriptor though.
the only group i could think of is the Cham-Malays they still exist there today. Still they are also Muslim by the 15th century. Could only speculate why individual C would be in this area along with group B.
@@miniminuteman773 I think i solved this part of the puzzle this person is likely to be Cham - Malay from Vietnam. Since Hinduism was practiced there even till late 16th century we are closer to the date of his demise. He must have been an outlier still clinging to Hindu customs and tradition since most Cham became Muslim. Furthermore there was some conflict in the region around this time. The rest is just speculation. Need more information of individuals of group B maybe they help C escape conflict maybe they are both devout Hindus on pilgrimage. I have the same Y haplogroup O as he is. so i know we're related lol by at least within 5000 years. I'm of peninsular origin he is likely Chamic origin.
"The only thing worse than hiking with a friend and finding a body, is hiking by yourself and finding 800" Nah, the worse thing is hiking by yourself and finding a _friend's_ body. Or even worse, _a body that wants to be your friend._
Could also be a cold sink. Areas in the shape of a bowl get far colder than the surroundings. Cold air falls down hill and will stop at a cold sink that is continuously refreshed with colder air. They are often the coldest recorded locations in any given state or country. People naturally head towards them for relief from winds and weather not knowing the danger inherent.
Immediately scrolled down to the comments to seek the inevitable roast. I think the phrase he was actually looking for was "let alone"; how his brain tossed up "insofar" is a mystery comparable to the definitely japanese parasol rifles
I love this channel. Archaeology is all about context and that is important because all of us, alive right now, share the same history. It belongs to all of us. Removing something from its context renders us unable to tell the whole story. By looting, rearranging, misplacing, etc. you're stealing from yourself. You'll never get that piece of the puzzle back.
Hi Milo, I tend to lurk in the background and not comment, but I've watched a good number of your videos now, and thought I would give you a comment ☺ I've watched your Philip Zeba and Ancient Apocalypse Debunking videos, and while it is fun to watch a good debunking, I also find it tiring after a while. Right now, I'm enjoying just watching you present archeological sites - it's nice to watch someone be enthusiastic about their field. Keep it up!
Scientists' commitment to accuracy and specificity is hillarious sometimes: "So we don't know how many bodies? So 'a bunch'. But we can't be vague... We found between 3 & 300 bodies!"
@@lavaosit means at least 300 individuals confirmed and enough bones across the place that if a reasonal number is missing from each skeleton you could get up to at most 800. It also means the site was preserved to their best capabilities rather than taking everything out and loosing whatever context might still be there after all the hiker meddling
My parents named me after this mountain/goddess after they'd been traveling through India 35 years ago. I almost never think about it anymore and it was so unexpected to suddenly hear the name in your video haha. Great to hear new stories!
I'm so glad that one of the first ethics lessons I learned was that you cannot take anything from public land or significant sites. My parents were big on seeing these places & drilled into our heads the importance of causing as little impact as possible.
1000 years in the future, scientists stumble upon the corpse of Milo who had frozen to death, filming in his studio. His skeleton remains pointing at a non-existant wall behind him. They find scraps of mittens, and camera equipment. The prevailing hypothesis is ritualistic suicide. They're kind of right.
"This right here, is the remains of a man from the 21st century, we believe he was part of a cult called archelogy. They talked about and done ritualistic suicide, due to their curious behavior of digging up random shit." - Milo 2766
@@COMPYCUBE"Hark, child, and listen to me. These bones once belonged to an ancient cultist - a follower of the Old World religion of Arcka-logy. They were a peculiar sort; mine colleagues suspect that they may have been death priests, preserving and transporting the remains of the dead. The foolish call them scavengers, and others yet propose that they may have been cultists seeking to resurrect the forgotten dead.
All hocwash. Clearly, they were scholars and wisemen, collecting bones to see the future closest to them."
- Random future shaman or something, probably.
OMG!! I hope he gets to see this!!!
Perhaps it was a fertility rite of some kind.
You’re funny
One reason why people died in this spot specifically is that in alpine regions, low spot, such as where a lake is, trap cold air and typically get significantly colder than surrounding areas. During a storm people will often take shelter in a such places not realizing that they are actually going into a more dangerous location. This is something that still kills hikers to this day.
If I had not read your comment i would have been in danger of this, thank you
@@ricebeansrockroll882 I believe they're referred to colloquially as "cold sinks" or "frost pockets." They can be dangerous for those unprepared. Militaries have fallen victim to them. Hikers and campers should try to understand their mechanics to avoid inadvertently camping within one.
@@ricebeansrockroll882if you see the tress struggling to grow in lower plain like areas its a giveaway, (most of the time there is a tree line like on a mountain)
This needs to be pinned
@@djkota8849That's not much indication at high altitudes as trees mostly disappear above 4000 meters.
I can't imagine seeing bones on the ground and thinking "oh, I'm gonna just play with those" 🤦♀️
For real... Like what if they died from some terrible unknown disease and then you contract it from disturbing the remains 😐
@@caffeinatedbroccoli Somewhere in Siberia is a small cemetery of smallpox victims
@@pierrecurie same in Townsville Australia, you can visit it lol
You don't have that caveman mentality. NGMI
you did not grow up on a cattle ranch then because when i see a cow skull or bone me and my cousins used to try and break them by throwing them on rocks
I love how u put the importance of leaving bones (and other findings) exactly as they are in focus.
In so many fields people are destroying sooo much because they don't know and/or understand that just grabbing things, rearranging, destroying or taking away is extremly harmfull to what u want to find out or to the population etc. (As with plants, animals, stones, bones, shattered pieces of whatever, ...)
Even though fields have been ploughed many times, it's still important to leave things where they are as much as possible, or at least note down where you found things, since it will still represent the rough location it was found. Ever watched time team? I saw one episode where they excavated a burial ground that a guy found with a metal detector and when they had asked him "where did you find the grave?" he didn't know. He should have mark the location, but instead the weren't able to find that location again. they found other graves, but no the one he found.
@@ST-vt4nu Yeah absolutly. Sepcially when u find something and best is if u take pictures right away because that leaves less room for interpretation (or forgetting).
One of the most important rules of natural explorers of all kinds (hikers, divers, etc.) is taking nothing but pictures, and leaving nothing but footprints/bubbles. It’s sad when people don’t take that seriously. Even bones and other historical relics deserve the same respect we should show the natural environment.
Well, i think its safe to say that there was a ton of dead people there
Yea
Even some or at least one not so dead person..
Never would have thought 😢
Bro hasn't even seen the video yet 💀💀
Must’ve been the aliens that constructed the pyramids
The thing I find most fascinating about this is that one group was remembered for over 1000 years in the form of local mythology, yet the group from only a few hundred years ago seems to have been completely forgotten. No oral history, no records of their travels, nothing.
It makes me wonder how much smaller the second group was (like, did they just happen to get most of group B in the tested sample, rather than an even distribution of both groups?) But even if it was only a dozen or so people, you'd think people would remember that time a bunch of random strangers walked into the mountain and never returned.
There's a likely explanation. Group A had survivors that told the story. Group B either didn't have survivors or since they were foreigners they couldn't share their plight due to a language barrier
@@dominiklehn2866 Even if there were no survivors you’d think someone would know they were there, they had to have come from somewhere and met people along the way. A large group of foreigners travelling up a pilgrimage route undetected seems nearly impossible.
The two events could have become conflated. The current tellings of the myth might even contain newer elements derived from the second instance.
*edited for clarity*
@@dominiklehn2866what I think could also be acontributing factor: social standing
group A was local nobels and their "court"
group B were just some unknown strangers, foreign in every sense of the word
I'm from Himachal Pradesh, India. Its a Himalayan state neighbouring Uttarakhand (the state where the Roopkund lake is).
I cannot emphasize just how much damage tourists are doing to the natural ecosystem of these mountains. As Hindus, the Himalayas are a holy site for us. They're the abode of Lord Shiva and Goddess Parvati (as you mentioned), and there are hundreds of pilgrimage sites scattered all across the mountain ranges, each holding its different legend and story.
Any time one visits these sites nowadays, though, all you can see are plastic wrappers and bottles, stray rubbish that tourists leave behind. Not only does it destroy the sanctity of the site, its also harmful for the local ecosystem.
Last year's monsoons were some of the worst I have ever experienced in my life. Landslides, floods, you name it. We even lost many of our close friends due to it. The Himalayas are dying, and there's nothing us locals are able to do, because tourism makes up such a huge portion of our state's economy. For the tourists, its just a 5 day fun adventure, but for us, its our life, our neighbourhood, everything we've ever known.
Sorry for the essay, just please, if you ever go out to visit another country or go hiking in the Himalayas, do your part, and respect whats been there thousands of years before you came along.
Amen!
We here in the Great Smoky Mountains of Northeast Tennessee call the tourist damage, "loving it to death."
Tourism is a disease killing some of the most beautiful places on earth. It's dead money.
Don't let 'em in. Give everyone a litter bag which must be filled to exit the park.
I will never understand people who claim to “love nature” littering. It’s rude, disgusting, and harmful. Soon there won’t be a place on earth without a dirty, unnaturally bright plastic bag on it. I hope people can change their attitude, especially people who go to these extreme places (who tend to be of a certain personality type - driven by the will to dominate without ever reflecting or encountering consequences).
Do people not realize how morbid it is that they are just... playing with actual human remains the way a child plays with a toy?
hehe forbidden lego
not every culture shares your particular ethical and moral codes and values.
@@KT-pv3kl that is a very fair statement, and going beyond that, not every person is going to share my particular ethical and moral codes and values, or share those exactly with any particular culture. I just can't fathom the thinking behind the process of using the remains of people who had lives, ambitions, hopes, dreams, and families like play-doh or lego bricks.
I suppose my failing is that I expected that, when a massive lake full of bones is widely known about, nobody was going to do something that I perceive as stupid and disrespectful with the reasoning of "it'll be funny" or "there's plenty of bones out here for them to study" or maybe even "our houses are made of dead trees, nobody gets all weird about that"
No, clearly.
@@raphaeldagamer Regardless of what that other person is trying to make you believe, yes it is considered very morbid/taboo to play with human remains in India and in Hindu culture in particular. Those "sculptures" look very recently made and the tourists who made them are sick fucks.
Moral of the story: if you find an archaeological site, don't disclose the location. Just say it's in Maine or Antarctica or something.
I love how Maine is put on par with Antarctica
As a Canadian living north of Maine, I resented this slightly until I looked out my window
@@drewsify552 If HP Lovecraft taught us anything, it's that "Maine is a dangerous, forbidding country on par with Antarctica" is apt. The two places are even equally as eldritch, now that I think of it.
Say Maine to fuck with Mainers.
No, but seriously, in college during field school we hiked to an archaeological site that was pretty well-hidden but still technically within city bounds. The professor looked at us and went "if you tell anyone about this and I find it covered in beer cans and kicked over I will obliterate your fucking careers." SO YEAH, DON'T DISCLOSE THE LOCATIONS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.
I dont know if im horrified or disgusted by the fact that hikers used the bones as FUCKING BUILDING BLOCKS.
I mean the human femur is about as good as concrete for building. I’ve found it can support a fair amount of weight from a structure
@@IMADINOSAURNOTABIRD You make a strong argument, and I suppose the marrow could work quite well as a cement
Hey not everyone can afford that Death Star Lego set for their kids, sometimes you've got to work with what you've got 🫤
Disgustified?
People use dead bodies as markers on Everest. It's kinda common when the persons been dead for awhile
ah, a video by a guy i've never heard of on a mystery i've never heard of in a field of study i know nothing about. *finally,* the video i've been looking for.
If ur looking for more videos like this I’ll link you a google dock with links to like 30+ videos I’ve been collecting
@@_SamC_ omg I need that link, you are doing the lord's work
this is literally like 80% of the content I watch on youtube
@@_SamC_don't be googledebunker
@@_SamC_ hey, i think you can make docs public. I don’t know if you actually can, but if you did you could give the name of it in an edited comment
I think that it’s a possibility that Group B could have been some wealthy hikers who hired a local guide (Group C) and died in the mountains
Yes. The 19th century was the period where wealthy europeans go around in the world to "explore" and "discover". So it would be coherent they were touring the world, hear in the local villages the story of the dead pilgrimage, and decide to hike around to find them.
Thats what i thought too
That, or they were descendants of the Grecco-Bactrians.
A MUCH further shot, but still possible.
The 1900's wasn't 400 years ago we're talking group b&c is about 400 years old. Listen seriously
Nice hair.
This is the most accurate and important comment ever made on Milo’s videos. Godspeed my dude
And of course first thing kyle mentions is the guy's hair lmao.
Why do you post so much nuclear content but say nothing about other alternative energy solutions? Nuclear isn't the only alternative to fossil fuel.
It's one thing to debunk scare mongering but there are still negatives to nuclear such as being too damn expensive for the energy it outputs...
The fact that there are arguing fanboys here from a science channel is just sad. No critical thinking just insecurity over defending what you fanboy over
Is it bad now to want channels to have the integrity to impartially post the pros AND the cons? Is it bad to want to mention how humanity has more alternatives to fossil fuel than just nuclear? Is it not possible to debunk stereotypes without being an evangelist? This is science, not a garbage TV show where you fanboy over your favourite character...
Sad...
@@geteducatedyoufool4563Since its by far the best one.
Its also the most cost effective.
@@geteducatedyoufool4563 Because it's his channel and he can make videos about whatever he wants. The economics of nuclear energy are not exactly a simple topic, however common misconceptions about radiation and the "danger" of nuclear power are far simpler to explain to your average joe. While nuclear is quite profitable it tends to be a long-term investment, and the factors that play into how much the cost of a new power plant in a certain country in a certain moment will be can get rather complex.
Imagine knowing that, despite your bones ending up in a random lake with hundreds of others in a remote mountain pass, some hikers came along and said "Hey you know what'd be funny" and made sculptures out of your family's bones
fuck that im getting cremeated 😂
You! Become art! 🫵
*Insert Lego game building sound*
I’d probably feel honoured knowing my death is provided others with happiness
I don't think they mind.
Imagine being the tourist who comes aacross a bunch if human remains and thinks "I defintly want to touch those human bones"
My theory is that this is simply a thriving skeleton community, much like the catacombs in Paris, and they simply stay very still whenever anyone comes to visit. Hikers aren't aranging the bones in weird positions, they just like playing twister occasionally. Sadly due to a lack of skeleton jobs many skeletons have been migrating away to find work, soon this unvibrant community will vanish forever.
✊😔
everybody's so creative
Bare bones community you might say?
Support your local skeleton commune
@@CharlieApplesI recommend the umbrellas
What else about these tourism and the building of “sculptures” is that these aren’t just bones, they’re the remains of people, people with all their own families, faiths, hopes, and dreams. Their memory is being desecrated. The only sign of them ever having existed is being turned into what? Sculptures and Souvenirs? I don’t know, but that’s not what I’d want my legacy to be-
Assuming there's no afterlife,those people don't exist anymore. They've been gone for a while. All it is is a set of bones that used to hold a person. The only thing wrong with it from an objective perspective removed of emotion is that they're destroying the chance for archaeology to discover more about the past.
@@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185 I mean I guess-
I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem right to me from any standpoint-
@@thenoteworthy1298 Yeah,that's because your morals and emotions are connected. Something I've realised about myself this past week is that whatever nerve connects morality and emotions in the human brain just isn't there for me. As a result,I don't tend to connect the two things.
@@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185 That’s interesting-
How does that work out?
@@thenoteworthy1298 It's kinda weird when comparing myself to others. Objectively, I know right and wrong, and I can debate morality just fine, but even when I see something that's wrong, I don't have that immediate emotional reaction to it. As a result,if something is wrong for an emotional reason,I struggle to see it as wrong
It would be wild to find out that the group of foreigners had heard the myth of the failed pilgrimage and went to the lake to do the same sort of tourism we're seeing now.
Actually seems fairly probable
It would be such a Titanic the Ship and Titanic the Sub situation
bloody tourists.
Tip for you, when faced with a long and difficult to say word or name, try back-chaining it. This means starting with the last syllable(s) for practice, adding the second last, and so on. So for Pranavananda, you say "nanda", then "vananda", then "navananda", then "Pranavananda". Once you have said the whole thing once, it becomes less intimidating. But you only move on to the next stage when you have the previous one nailed in, repeat each one ten times or so, till you don't even have to worry about fumbling it. (This doesn't give any insight into the correct pronunciation of the name/word of course, you may need to look that up first - but it means you can say it with confidence)
This also works really well for complete sentences in a foreign language; you break them into their constituent syllables, rather than just words, and you can learn to produce the sounds without your analytical brain interfering.
Wow. That worked for me
As a dyslexic adult, I’m very sad that no one told me this strategy decades ago 🌝
Also: remember that all words are "speakable". Sometimes it is just a matter of not using the stress/intonation you would use in your own language. Just try stressing each syllable to the same degree first.
Yes, and I would add: hide the part of the word you are not pronouncing yet. Just uncover each syllable as and when it is its turn to be pronounced. As a rule: when you are reading, use a blank piece of paper in which you have cut out a rectangle which has space for one line, and only about 5 words, and move this "window one as you read. And when you get to a full stop, oause and think of what you have read. It will make reading slow, but also very manageable and understandable, so in the end, you save time and energy. :)@@seyi6295
Wow! Thank you!
Hearing how this became a local legend reminds me of an archeological find here in Sweden, where on one of the larger islands there was a legend that people should not wander close to an ancient ruin, as something terrible might happen. Well, some years ago a gold find was discovered in those ruined remains, and of course our archeologists scattered to excavate the place to try and find what rested there. What they found shocked them, because the place was a small town, and they found over a dozen dead bdies, left as they were slain. They reasures remained, they found evidence of meals having been eaten as the attackers came. No one had gone back to bury the dead. We still don't know the full story and it is still an excavation, but from what we can find out. During the 5th 6th century AD, some outside group attacked the town at night, slaughtered all men and either kidnapped the woman or killed them at another location. The people who either witnessed or survived likely carried down the terror so locally it was told: "Something awful happens at Sandbyborg"
If you find any paper on it, I'd recommend you check it. It's literally the Swedish equivalence of Pompeii
I have zero evidence, but I'm gonna blame the Danes for this one 😤
@@pvp6077 Actually, most Swedish archeologists believe the raid was done by other islanders, who wanted to destroy the town's influence. I got the timeline a little wrong, it was 4th century, not 5th, 6th. But it fellaround the end of the Roman empire, and some believe it was a loyal pro Roman outpost, and not a popular one.
@luminoustarisma Roman empire lasted till 16th century.
isn't there little evidence for mass slaughter other than dead bodies?
I remember reading about it and the arrangement of remains, lack of weapon discoveries, the fact the precious items weren't looted, and the location of site kinda point to it not being a massacre... a natural disaster seems a more fitting explanation
Viking Pompeii. Say no more.
On the topic of that sweatshirt, I bought one pretty much the same day I watched this video. It came in a couple of weeks ago, and I have worn it consistently around my home since. It's super comfortable - just warm enough without being stifling - and I absolutely love the design as someone who does tarot readings as a pass time.
Love how this dude is a scientist and archeologist named milo. Now all he needs is a pair of big round glasses and a map to Atlantis
scientist who questions the gender due to inadequate data💀
@@sensiesama2713 yes, because it is actually pretty damn difficult to identify someone's gender from bones alone if the important bones are not around, and in this case, it was a wonder they even got 2
@@sensiesama2713
Good scientists do not draw definitive conclusions from inadequate evidence, they learn to sit with ambiguity while the search for answers continues.
@@danielflanard8274 again, pretty rich for you to say that while you defend biased content in your reply to me. Tell me what part of the need to discuss pros AND cons you disagree with
@@geteducatedyoufool4563
I have encountered many people on this platform. It is only the difficult ones who follow me into other unrelated threads to insult my character instead of addressing my reply to them in the relevant thread. It is pretty rich that you are accusing everyone of ignoring your arguments while posting two nearly identical replies on two different threads, both of which do not address any of the counterarguments I made to your comments.
Tourists taking bones as souvenirs is actually f*cked. What do they do with the bones when they get home? Hang it on the wall as a trophy "hey look what i got while climbing this mountain range"
like how f*cked up do you have to be to look a at a human remain and think "wow that'll do nicely on my chimney"
My Coast Salish ancestors' bones were used as bookends, doorstops (apparently skulls are great doorstops), and just regular decoration.
It could be worse. Knowing what conspiracy nuts do with stones and such pilfered from ancient sites as well, it's very likely some are also desecrated trying to find the giant dna.
@@forest_green Not a problem if it’s your families bones. That’s kinda cool. But don’t go around yoinking other people’s bones from historical sites.
@@isabelmcgaugh711 sorry, I didn't explain properly. Settlers took the bones from their sacred cairns and used them as decor.
As soon as you said "Time in running out" I immediately knew what the reason was gonna be.
Tourist is the absolute bane on every single historical and important site.
A recent example being Chernobyl and how tourism is actively destroying everything there. To the point where people are bringing highly radioactive items back with them.
People bringing back items from chernobyl? Reminds me of STALKER
@@hesya5400 Except that these people are bringing back stuff like a shoe, a shoe which is so radioactive it's gonna give you cancer if you have it beside you.
You have to be a very special kind of stupid to try that, I'm not even talking about any mental illnesses I'm talking stupid stupid
@@alanin4dwelcome to the internet vibes
Natural selection.
People really need to learn to leave things be instead of thinking they're somehow the main character and destroying these places for touristic reasons.
Shout out Milo for temporarily reenacting the way we believe these people died
Really dedicated
At least he didn't get bludgeoned by hailstones!
@@rebeccat.6134yet...
@@rebeccat.6134 just wait for part two…
As soon as you said, "What's one going to do" I subscribed.
I live in a tourist area where people take that mentality all the time; mostly the tourists. The stuff that people rip out of the ground and tear off natural formations where I live is ridiculous. I don't know why people don't understand that by taking something you are damaging the same place that you came to visit.
I think an aspect of it is to create a souvenir. To the tourist who do that, they don’t give a fuck they just want a physical reminder of the trip. To them their memory is more important than the enjoyment of everyone.
I do too! I have worked it toom but amazingly, I have no bad stories from working. But living here I have plenty. You should how much trash they leave behind....
Grew up on Nantucket island. It's one thing when all the local kids are carving into the local love tree, it's another thing when tourists decide it's a tourist hotspot and damage the tree so much that it has to be cut down. See also: our dunes and bluffs being home to a lot of endangered species that nest there, and tourists thinking that climbing the dunes is harmless. I've seen damage from locals, but never to the extent of a single tourist on a bender.
Could you maybe push for the government to put up signs near these sites that damaging or even touching and thus altering the local eco system will be punished with a fine or even jail time? put up some cameras and the majority of people will think twice about damaging things. In a lot of countries there are laws about preserving things like landmarks and eco systems. Otherwise, maybe even just a sign asking people to respect the site will make people realize they're being a-holes before acting.
it is massively disrespectful to the place you are visiting and the people who occupy it. I will never understand it. This example is especially disgusting to me though, disturbing the remains of people is awful, and I don’t understand why someone would want to do that in the first place.
I live in New Delhi, and hiking in the Himalayas is a passion. The trek to Roopkund Lake, although very difficult, is one of the most popular treks here. I was fortunate to have been there in 2007, right after the monsoons, and the landscape was otherworldly. I also noticed, and the mountain guides told me many stories, of how tourists would take back bones as souvenirs. Also the pilgrimage you talked about, that happens once in 12 years, is called the Nanda Devi Jat, and it is a sight to behold. all the Himalayan villages in the state of Uttarakhand have their own deities, and the villagers carry their gods and meet up on the meadows at the base of Roopkund, and travel beyond the Junargali Pass (It is pronounced with the J sound, and not with the H sound). One interesting ritual that happens on this 'yatra' (Hindi, for pilgrimage) is that a young goat is released in the wild, bedecked in gold jewellery worth millions, as an offering to the Goddess. Nobody follows the goat after it is released, and it is never seen again.
Thank you for sharing
Damn..
Imagine just chilling around a fireplace with your homies in the 9th century, and seeing a baby goat COMPLETELY decked out in gold and jewelry😂😂
Huh, that sounds kind of similar to the Yom Kippur scapegoat sacrifice.
@@faarsightmaybe there is some ancient link lost to time there
@@SumeriyaYaxlaka
And then seeing your homie get struck by lightning or Shamshad after trying to take the jewellery off of the goat
I came to this video thinking it was a group of pilgrims that were killed in a hale storm, but it's so interesting to find out that there were three separate groups that the bones belonged to. This is intriguing, to say the least. Definitely threw me for a loop.
Milo, first of all, thank you for making these videos and second of all, please don't skip making any videos "because people studied this or that in school". I'm from Argentina, currently living in the US and I had no idea these sites existed. I'm really happy to be able to learn about this land from you, you're great at what you do and I hope you continue teaching us about the archeology of the whole world!
I agree, also not everyone finished high school so that would help them get a GED
This site isn't in the US, it's in Asia.. ❤
Now to piss him off:
These people were subjects of a natural phenomenon that teleports people from random places around the world to that one unfortunate place, and only during hailstorms.
scp
epic scp prompt
This is the only theory that sufficiently explains that one lonely spearhead.
Someone mentioned SCP, I thought of Pratchett's Discworld, Red Dwarf and/or The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :)
I might write an SCP article on your comment...
Got fucking damn it what is this SCP nonsense
I think the High court has banned trekking on the local meadows since 2018, which basically closed the Roopkund route since then. There may be a couple of trekking agencies that might defy this order in secret but, I think the trek is closed as of now.
It is pretty sad that the remains were moved as part of a photo opportunity by some of the trekkers.
Great video- loved it btw!
That's quite reassuring to hear
Ok but can we talk about how GOOD MILO’S SINGING VOICE IS?!
I am Garhwali (Western part of Uttarakhand, where the lake is) there is also a common known folk song that narrates what happened there. Also there destruction caused by outsiders coming in is massive and irreversible. The present condition of the Himalayas is just sad and as a native Himalayan it just hurts even more to know what is happening to my ancestral lands.
As a Garhwali ,the biggest joke is the sheer fact we are the only Himalayan state that doesn't have any laws that protects the natives of Uttrakhand - the Garhwalis and Kumaonis . Or the fact that we Garhwalis and Kumaonis don't have any say in our own ancestral land and pahadi state.
Uttrakhand needs land laws and we the natives want to be heard. As this has already lead to our culture being 90% destroyed and also our own languages - Garhwali and Kumaoni not being recognised in our own state. Also out of the 1700 villages in Uttarakhand , 700 villages are already ghost villages because the government refuses to listen to the natives will and wishes. As a micro minority community this is of the most important issue that needs to addressed , as we are the ones in danger.
These mfs are same they don in metro cities and when it comes to their state thry be like guys stop it all this problem you should ask to your CM he won't do anything tell your cm to create jobs so that you guys won't come to south india or delhi mumbai for jobs live there and save your land
Would you mind telling us what the song tells ? Is that the same folk stuff than he said, the one about deity revenge and iron balls falling from the sky ?
Yeah... all one has to do is mention the mountain named Chomolungma, only to be given a blank stare, to see just how entrenched the effects of colonialism (physical, intellectual, etc) are, even to this day.
Really!
@@Women-hate-me What the FUCK ? No wonder women do not find you attractive (Incel much? It's your own fault!)... look up the terms 'neocolonialism' and 'cognitive dissonance', eh?
Jeez. Wow.
@@Diss0lvant If my memory serves me right, the song narrates that back in the days(probably centuries ago or thousand years ago) there was a King and a Queen who were trying for a child but they had no success, then one day someone from the mystics side mentioned to the couple to try to apple to the Mountain Devi(closest loose English translation is Mountain female deity)(Gods/Goddess is not a thing). And when they followed the mystics advice, they were blessed with a child. Overjoyed with the birth of their own child the King and Queen announced that they will take a pilgrimage to the Mountains where the Devi's temple/structure is located, and perform a big procession and rituals for thanking and appreciating her(Devi) and ask for her blessing. But apparently on the journey they did something very bad, that enraged the Devi enough to the point, where she punished them with a Hail, which ended up crushing their skulls and killing the entire procession.
for anyone wondering, 23°F = -5°C and 22°F ≈ -5.556°C
ty
I wasn't, I stop listening whenever I hear imperial measurements. We tried compromising, it doesn't work.
Use metric, or assume that everybody outside the US isn't going to understand.
If Milo didn't care enough to list something literally on the Thermometer, then I don't care if he was listing F⁰ and will take his readings as C⁰.
Further more, I won't even question why he was wearing an awful lot of cold weather clothes for such warm temperatures either.
@@soulsurvivor8293 Obviously he's trying to give himself heat stroke to get out of recording.
weirdly enough it's colder for him in America, then it is for me in Canada haha
It's 13c right now so I'm having a great time
hey! Indian here. thanks for making at least an effort into pronouncing most of those names correctly. Good job! Also thanks for covering an archeological story from home! A lot of our archeology is often either overlooked or manipulated into religious propaganda, so this was awesome to watch.
Good on you bringing attention to non-western archeologists/politicians exploiting and misappropriating history, theres usually a lot of the opposite for some reason.
people who look at a name longer than 5 letters then just give up are wild
they get like 3 syllables into a name then just go vahjayblahblah whatever
@@user6122Lol that mostly comes from not wanting to mess it up. As someone who has a short name that is very easily messed up. I'd prefer it not said than mispronounced like it has for almost my entire life.
@@user6122 I work with a large number of immigrants, they do the exact same thing to English because of how hard it is to learn. It's funny how white people are all "We have to do better! We give up on words that are hard to pronounce." Meanwhile everyone around them actively avoid words to say due to them being difficult.
We're all the same on this regard, nobody is doing a better job than anyone on this case.
How strong is this religious propaganda in india? I keep hearing about some revisionist crap like "India invented nukes a millenia ago", but how does religion come into this?
Not only is it horrible that people were moving bones, taking bones, but it's incredibly disrespectful to these people who died an awful, horrific, and painful death. These people should feel ashamed for even thinking it's okay to be moving and taking such important history away. I'm honestly quite disgusted with anyone who has done this.
I know those who died possibly can't rest in peace, but if there's an afterlife, I hope they're all warm and happy. My any god or deity rest their souls :(
To be fair, we don't even know how they died, so we don't really know how awful or horrific or painful it was.
Imagine they will throw it after a week -_- so whats the point?
Its pure stupidity
@@willoughbykrenzteinburgat least it was cold😂
@@willoughbykrenzteinburg they froze to death
I'm often haunted by the fact I once sat down to rest on a hike and couldn't find the strength to get back up. It was a visceral panic that set in as I felt myself relax into a dreamlike state. I was able to continue but I was nowhere near 16k. It was a mountain valley with vegetation clear to the top, perhaps a few thousand feet above sea level
I know exactly what you're talking about. It's a pretty strange feeling. I literally had to use all my remaining strength and will to continue my walk home. I was on a hike by myself late winter in the prairies. I decided I wouldn't hike alone anymore or at least have proper supplies if I'm on an extended hike.
Is there room at the Haunted Table for one more? 😳🥶
I remember cycling up the Stelvio, a mountain pass in Italy above the vegetation line. It felt like the mountain was angry with me and send evil spirits to stop me. The thin air results in less oxygen being available to you and significantly lowers how efficient your muscle can work. An impressive experience
Yeah, that's the thing about pushing yourself. Sometimes you run out.
Did you die? 😳
You keep saying "Nanda Devi"... But... That's the name of the mountain(s) where Parvati lives with Shiva.
Sati-Parvati aka Kali aka Durga is the name of the goddess you're talking about.
"Nanda Devi" is just a title that translates to something like "joy-giving goddess".
Sati-Parvati is a favorite of mine, so it's weird to have her talked about with a title and name for her holy mountain instead of her name.
Ohhh I see! Thank you for the distinction here. That was a little unclear in a lot of the sources I was going over discussing the local oral tradition. I appreciate you lending your expertise.
For some reason I thought Shiva and Vishnu were married so when he said that I thought something was off but I looked it up and I too was wrong 😂 The more you know 🌈⭐️
@@th3grav3mak3rgaming8lord Shiva and lord Vishnu still love each other just as much as they love their wives. Legends say that half of their heart is dedicated to entirely each other and other half to their wives and their devotees.
They also had a child together when lord Vishnu transformed into his female avatar mohini.
@@miniminuteman773 Hinduism has had a lot of syncretism over the centuries, so it's not surprising to have gotten lost on who is who based on when and where you're talking about.
And when you have a big goddess like Sati-Parvati who is also like 4 (to even as many as 10) other goddesses, it's easy to misplace who she is.
And this is even before you get into sectarian differences.
@@omkartelang1064 Namaskaram. To add to what you said, many Shaivites (Shiva devotees) and Vaishnavas (Vishnu devotees) will also tell you that Shiva and Vishnu are the highest form of each other. I love the plural nature of Hinduism ❤️🕉️😁
Har har Mahadev
It seems too coincidental that Group B just happened to all die in that very same place under Group A. A more likely scenario is that this place was actually the lair of a dragon, and it was just taking its victims here. Only thing that makes that unlikely is there should be a lot of treasure here.
The real treasure was the friends it made along the way
@@admiralofcuteness made food come outta my nose
Maybe the bones ARE the treasure. Maybe not all dragons collect gold
@@admiralofcutenessliterally come here to type that, word to word. Was disappointed to you had already done
You don't consider glass beads and parasols treasure? 🙂
I love the title card gags that cut your off right before you announce something.
Its really funny and really catches attention.
Archaeogenetics and Archaeolinguistics researcher here. The sample in the Roopkund C genetic cluster is highly shifted towards the Nicobarese. There is an astounding level of Austroasiatic/Laos Bronze Age admixture in this sample, more than the vast majority of modern Southeast Asians.
This only makes sense to you.
Could you elaborate on what that means, and its implications, for us laymen?
Very interesting, I would like to hear more if you have more to share
@@Preston241
This would imply two things
1) this mf was either from Nicobar and the Andaman Islands (which is where North Sentinel is btw), or his ancestors were. That is... oddly specific...
But since his diet did not consist of much seafood, him or his ancestors likely moved Inland, either to another part of South Asia or for some reason to Anatolia.
2) The Laotian part may mean that at some point there were people from Laos (very inland) who may have moved to this god forsaken island chain for whatever reason.
Personally I find this very absurd.
Moreover, given the vast amount of seafood that Greek people normally consume, it is weird how their diet didn't seem to consist of much seafood. We don't know if group B and C actually met however so that is one question unsolved.
wHat
When im hiking alone and find 799 bodys, im completely fine, but 800 is where i draw the line
lmao
Famous last words for the person who became number 800.
When im hiking alone and find 800 bodys, im completely fine, but 801 is where I draw the line
Haha :)
13:11 nah lol, “insofar” means “to the extent that”.
Your thermometer is ideal for an international audience, insofar as it helps you report both Fahrenheit and Celsius temperatures. Your clothes kept you warm insofar as they could, despite your coat being unbuttoned.
the disregard people have towards bones is so disheartening, especially when it comes to unknown bodies like theirs. they died without their names and now we will probably never know
Ironically they would be horrified if the same fate occurred to their remains.
Speak for yourselves, when I'm dead just throw me in the trash
For real, I just can't imagine coming across an ancient skull and thinking, "this'll make a killer Instagram post!"
That skull was a full person, it was you hundreds of years ago. Pay respect to those who came before, and pass it on so future generations will do the same for your skull
Honestly, if someone wanted to make a sick Instagram post with my skull, I'd be cool with it.
you ever heard of bone ghazi? the roopkund lake bones reminds me of that
TLDR is:
tumblr witch uses bones for magic, which were taken from a cemetary in louisiana when it would flood and the bones would float up and away from their graves, and if she had excess she would sell them to people around the country for similar purposes
there's a Whang! video about it that covers it in detail but pretty fucked up scenario, like how the tourist bone moving situation is at roopkund lake
30:19 I did just that, now I am a certified Google Debunker!
The fact that freezing leaves no marks on the bones is in itself a great thing, because if the bones of Group B/C don't show any trauma, like Group A with their cracked skulls, it means they they did probably die via a means that leaves no marks.
I have to wonder what the life of that lone individual from Group C was like. They, or their family, came from somewhere in Malaysia, somehow met up with a bunch of Greeks and they all went up a mountain in the Himalayas and died. What a life.
There was a greek kingdom in pakistan that lasted for a while until the 1st century AD. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom. Could have been some isolated villages with mostly greek blood still back then. The malay guy probably would have from a mostly muslim area by then. Probably all the descendents of the indo-greek kingdom would have been muslim too. I'm guessing back then there was a lot of trade and travel going on around that time throught that whole area from south asia to southeast asia. Wouldn't be surprised if they were muslim missionaries, or just friends traveling... maybe they met while traveling... maybe they decided to take a side trip and investigate the lake they heard about from some of the locals.
@@davidnoll9581 Honestly this seems quite possible. For adventurous people travelling through this area hearing this story it would be quite tempting to check it out I would say
That C group person could have made a great Instagram influencer, but alas it was not meant to be
Hi
You would think the freezing would’ve made the bones weaker but then i realised that would be freeze thawed anyway
I do not understand peoples love of the "hailstorm" explanation. As a meteorologist it has always struck me as just so, so impossible that a hailstorm that severe could impact such a high altitude area. While large hail is very common in lower elevations of (mostly eastern) India, and *small* hail is very common in high-altitude places, large hail capable of injuring is *incredibly* uncommon at very high altitudes, to the point of being practically impossible above 10,000 feet in elevation.
Why could the legend of "iron balls from the sky" not just come from a rockslide, a very common cause of death in that area?
My first instinct was actually that it was the blizzard that she sends in the story, much likelier and the head damage on the few skulls that had it could be post mortem. But the hail does make for a better story
Part of me is skeptical of a rockslide because with my very limited knowledge I feel like a rockslide would bury the remains. Please correct me or explain the flaws in my logic I have no research at all in this.
@@Gtri001the initial group was burried, I thought. It was only the later group that wasn't (no head injury).
I teach avalanche safety courses and my first thought was avalanche. Roughly 30% of avalanche victims die of trauma, the rest could have just asphyxiated under the debris. If it was a bad avalanche zone on a pilgrimage route that pilgrims traveled regularly, multiple parties could have died and been buried in debris that may have rarely melted. It’s even possible that the route avoided all but the most extreme avalanche hazards, when large, rare avalanches did happen, the debris would reach the path and burry any parties on it. Such a large avalanche could create basically a temporary glacier, snow and ice that doesn’t ever fully melt and is known for churning and scattering bones as it moves down hill.
This sounds weird, but do you know if a bad blizzard could cause a rockslide?
I just want to say:
I know you do a few retakes every now and then, but I really, really love the format of your content and how comfortable it is. It's like having a roundtable with friends-- not watching a natgeo doc. The atmosphere, approach, and even minimal example material is perfect for the kind of content that has been shown to work for learning, especially in those with ADD and other similar conditions. You're doing something incredibly helpful for so many-- and I wanted to thank you for it. I was desperate to be an Egyptologist as a kid. Being a female in Egypt though? Bad play. I live so vicariously through this channel, though not Egypt (mostly!) and feel so comfortable by the lack of talking-down to your audience that you do. Respectful, comfortable, humorous, and extremely well-researched. I can't fathom having any negative feelings to your work. Continue to be you.
The thought of tourists disrespecting this resting place of hundreds makes my blood boil.
The dead don't care what happens to their bones. The real problem is like he states in the video: altering the site destroys important archeological context.
I wouldn't be surprised in the 1700 group was doing it to look for loot. Rumors of a goddess in a mountain is bound to have some gold or something. In their heads anyways.
It's what archaeologist's do all the time. 'Loot' their resting places and put them in a museum or a lab.
@@duudsuufd Not even close to the same thing 🤦 the tourists destroy it for NO REASON. Real archeologists do it to LEARN and TEACH about the remains and location. For stealing you want the British museum.
Romanian tourists have a tendency to hike wildly unprepared. Some die (as you would expect).
every day Milo's studio looks more and more like a hostage situation
Lol... with the kidnappers off-screen angrily gesturing at him to be more viral/topical/etc, and to stop whining about the temperature.
😆
Theres a reason for the title of the last chapter
Milo, blink twice if you are being held at gunpoint
First, as a college professor, the inspirational speech you gave at about 29:55 actually made me clutch my heart. This sort of curiosity and wonder is *precisely* what I want my students to learn.
Second, this was a *fascinating* video; I hadn't even heard of this site, and the history/mystery fascinates me. I'll definitely be doing more research.
Third, I'm very glad you didn't succumb to hypothermia in the making of this video. :)
This comment is too wholesome for the internet.
@@duncangriffiths4399it’s also a lie
@@GDAccelerate explain then
@@CourierCat-2 idk what i was talking about here, i forgot who we were watching so it’s genuinely possible this person is an actual college professor
@@GDAccelerate oh
I'm so glad you covered this, I saw the hailstorm explanation years ago and just moved on with my life, but the truth is so much more fascinating and tragic.
And tho too many people see look human bones as souvenirs, the comments suggest there are just as many (if not more) people who'd leave another dead body on that mountain if they caught someone trying it.
get the chalkboard up Milo, come on man.
you know you miss the chalk.
Needs a snack
Chalkboard paint would be awesome
Hard to hold chalk with mittens on.
noooooo chalk makes my skin crawl, even thinking about it is horrible 😂
@@spilledepsomsalt4419 shut up, you're a snack
I've spent a fair amount of time in high altitude places in the winter. I feel like I can pretty much tell what happened. They were hiking, and that seemed like a reasonable place to hunker down because it's probably out of the wind in a big storm. But then the wind stops and it turns into a cold sink. It can drop to temperatures you just can't function in within a very short period of time. You never want to camp in a natural depression in the winter. It may seem better, because hey, no wind. And during a storm it can seem warmer. It's just when the storm passes and it has time to create a temperature inversion that it sucks.
I saw a wilderness survival video that listed "low ground or hollows" as one of the basic mistakes people make in trying to locate a good place when caught without proper resources.
As a retired landscape designer, I concur. So many people get confused when their hardy shrubs and plants die in a little hollow.
@@maryeckel9682 An excellent excuse for a shrine, sculpture or hobbit/fairy/gnome home, a wee hollow. Just my immediate reaction.
Now the question is:
What the hell was group B and C doing there?
That makes more sense than fatal hail that doesn’t break bones
The lone group C person is probably the most fascinating part of this for me! We dont know why their group went into the mountains, what their connection with Group B exactly was, and why they were so far away from their ancestral area/home/possibly birth place and family to have ended up with the group in the first place! We dont even know (currently) if they were the only of their descent at the lake. The story writer in me is captivated by this one person that (likely) died from cold they were unprepared for on top of a mass grave of people from hundreds of years before and the life they lived that we likely will never know becides the food they were eating
What if they were opium runners, and that lone guy wasn't traveling with them, but met them there? "That one lake full of bones, ask the locals" seems like a good smuggler's point.
could have been a descendent of someone that migrated west during the Mongol empire.
Write it
during this time malay sultanates were under the suzerainty (protection from and pledges to) the ottoman empire, since it's the dominant islamic empire of its day, so there would've been some contacts. i am not saying this is why, just a thing to consider
@@violasses No no you're probably on to something, like...if you're right the whole thing lines up beautifully. Ottoman people undergoing an expedition of India with a Malay guide somewhat from closer place with maybe some experience with the place/locals previously. If they can actually get a Malay guy to go with them, they either knew the person or the person was ordered. In the latter case (less so in the former) it is more likely that there will be Ottoman records from the time (Which I'm sure someone has thought about before surely, to check with the old Empire's archives but hey, a man can dream.) which means we may even be able to find out whether this was something official or at least, recorded. There is hope.
Hello, Ottoman history enthusiast here. My theory is that this later group were Balkan Christian slaves who were sold by the Ottoman Empire to further east in Turkestan, which explains why none of them appeared to be related. The period in which they would have lived correlated with political instability in the Qing Dynasty and endless amounts of military struggles as well as uprisings in Tibet, Xinjiang, and Turkestan.
The fact that these weren’t pilgrims make it seem highly unlikely they would pick such a hard route if they had the choice. They must have fled from wherever they were through the Himalayas, not properly nourished, ill-equipped, and not knowing of the conditions that will meet them as. The reason why they didn’t go to the nearest human presence might be because they’re evading capture, as a lost band Mediterranean descended would have been incredibly notable to locals who would reveal their location to whoever was after them.
It was due to these circumstances that these people met their tragic ends in such a remote lake.
The amount of disrespect someone must have to not only move someone else's remains for no good reason, but also take them home or build STATUES out of them, is vile. These people likely met a very grim death, and now their only remaining memory, their bones, are being used as toys. It's sick behavior.
Idk, I think it's pretty cool 😎
Still a bit impolite
Every culture in the world has respect for the dead. Many in different ways. Yet these monsters see skeletons and pieces of the past as play things or oddities. I was in a drawing class and we have a real human skeleton (1900s we know and I think that somewhere they have more info on them but it was a medical donation) and I was anxious to touch respectfully yo change their pose. Many would see a skeleton and assume it’s fake or a play thing. That is why when the skeleton was part of the medical school long ago someone stole part of its arm. My professor was the one who rescued it and hauled a large cabinet to his room with a lock to protect it. I’ve always thought that respect for the dead is a common thing… not stealing and disrespectfully moving or touching them unless you have a actual connection to them. Like many cultures do with family members. But the more I have heard of the world and tourists the more it’s all wrong…. I’ve been to places with skeletons before like Pompeii and I have been in silence observing them and I’ve been in a small catacomb when I was in middle school and yes I did have a anxiety attack but I kept myself together… just something about the bones separated and like sorted by part just was anxiety inducing somehow for my mind. My grandma passed in the fall and we haven’t been able to hurry her due to the cold ground but her box of ashes is on our fireplace mantle and I hug it. I feel embarrassed to admit but I sat with her on new years because she never got to see 2024. Death is such a part of humanity yet those who disrespect it are monsters. Or not just monsters but people who have to respect for others or where they are or anything or anyone. Sorry for the rambly rant.
@@BennyAscent grave robbing?
@@BennyAscent oh so you're disgusting? why are you on his channel if you have no respect for people or history?
Milo missing the most obvious and real reason:
It was an ancient extremely advanced civilisation accompanied by aliens
aliens who taught them how to turn their statues into bionicle robots
I instantly thought this! How did he miss this it’s obviously the answer
“Toys in every store” ………😂👏🏻🫶🏻
were the aliens performing ritualistic suicide as some sort of fertility rite?
Aliens... FROM THE FUTURE!
People camping in a frost hollow due to it having a lake in it. Frost hollows get way colder then the mountains that form them. it could have been -70F in that basin when they died.
I didn't know this! I know temperatures can drop as you go up in altitude but I didn't consider that formations or landscapes in the mountains could alter the tempature as well.
Could also have been camping there in order to avoid some kind of harsh weather. As you said, it was in a hollow, which could have shielded them from some very harsh winds. Both of these groups could just have used this hollow as shelter from some strong winds, but instead they froze to death due to how cold air behaves.
And it can drop fast as the wind above picks up speed.
@Rey-it3sg
Yeah. You just need to make simple cover.
Don't use hollows. The wind passing above draws the heat out and their shape means sun light only gets in if the sun is right above.
@@Rey-it3sg
It can also be warmer on the top of the lowest slope in a valley.
The heat rising up the valley reaches this first.
It's often visible on the landscape.
I'm ok with the pilgrimage hypothesis being the most believable one, but ritualistic suicide not being plausible because no signs of violent death? That's a bad argument imho, throwing yourself in a freezing lake in the Himalayas would probably be enough, some of them hitting their head on the rocks on the way down to explain the head trauma on some of them, and i don't know why he talked about the spear in the suicide part, you don't use a polearm to stab yourself to death. The way he's talking about it sound more like ritualistic sacrifice, not suicide.
Also, they don’t have enough soft tissue to prove anything. If somebody’s throat is cut, if they are stabbed in the abdomen or even if they are poisoned, you can’t tell by the bones 😂
Imagine freezing to death and thinking your last thoughts, only to glance over and see, under the ice, the bones of those who came before you
Fucking terrifying
Ghost of a Newly Dead Pilgrim, "Am I dead?"
Ghost of an Ancient Dead Pilgrim, "Yeah, but it ain't bad. We'll be okay so long none disturbs our bones."
Ghost of a Newly Dead Pilgrim, "No worries on that score, I guess; what kind of moronic ass-wipe would mess with such sad relics as ours?"
Truly horrifying. That was my first thought when I read it was two groups. What a frightening end.
That's sounds like a scene you'd see in a horror or survival movie, terrifying
@@miniminuteman773 if that happened to me I'd just guess it was a gas leak
@@airplanes_aren.t_real some people in the comments above are speculating that it could have been something conceptually similar, a basin of cold air, starts getting cold and everyone's dead fast enough that there are no survivors (especially since how would they know that in other places it's better if they let's say didn't know about that cold air hollow concept).
Considering how the bones are being removed, damged, destroyed, etc. by tourists and potentially even the ever changing environment, perhaps the loner of "Group" C wasn't truly alone, or perhaps there may have been more loners or groups present at one point
Finally, now THIS is the type of "unsolved mysteries" videos that I want - not the ones that romanticize the lack of answers but rather more like a detective story where clues lead to solutions of a puzzle.
Also, I have a theory, since you mentioned these people were related to Ottoman Empire, I think they might be a local tribe with Indo-Greek ancestry. When Alexander the Great invaded India, many Greeks and their descendants settled down in the place. Also, there might be similar Greek descendants in the Ottoman Empire, which is why the genes matched up. So, rather than them being distant migrants, they might be a local population that has greek ancestry.
That doesn't explain Malayan dude (while Ottoman expedition could have one as Ottomans had traded with them and could have hired one as guide). I thought about local Greek colonists too, but I think they would be heavily intermixed with locals by now and DNA test could easily tell you that...
Yes but: we know that Alexander's crowd mixed with the local population. This was partly due to the fact (if memory serves) that not many of them remained, and they were mostly male.
alexander lost to porus
he returned
I think this is a great theory but we have no evidence of the individuals being closely related or having similar genetic markers other than geographical area of origin. A local population would probably have some genetically similar inderviguals (family units), it is possible that we haven't found them yet but it would be expected that a local population of mixed age and gender would have family units within it.
@@Siya_shrivastava Alexander didn't lose to Porus lmao, Porus fought hard but was ultimately no match for Macedonian combat
I hope that tourism will contribute to a renewed increase in the number of skeletons in the lake.
Since Milo didnt want to convert the temperature, i will assume he means 23C, which is a comfortable room temperature and he is just being a baby about it.
At 38C i might actually spontaneous combust. Way too hot for my northern ass.
New Englanders wouldn't be wearing gloves in 60F-70F weather 😅 honestly wearing them around freezing doesn't happen much (0F however, that's glove weather)
@@bellablue5285 You're not taking in to account the wind chill. Maybe there's an open window ... or a missing wall.
-5C lol. I had to convert 23C to F and that's 73 ish degrees to us
Lol I like this theory
Solution: They were time-travelling Japanese soldiers (with a small squad of Italian soldiers) seeking to sneak-attack India through the mountains several hundred years before they would be expected. But, as the Terminator films have taught us, you can't travel back in time with your clothes and weapons.
exactly.....................i like that theory
Brilliant. Mystery solved everyone!!
So sad that the terminator movies hadn’t come out yet so they could learn that important aspect of time travel
I mean you also have to correct for the movement of the earth through space. Have to imagine it's hard to correct for that without issue so maybe they plan to arrive somewhere else and forgot to carry the 2 and ended up in the Himalayas.
It's just occums razor, none of "science" non-sense to disprove such a clear and simple theory
Imagine seeing human bones, something that was once a person who met what was most likely a horrible end and DECIDING TO MOVE OR STEAL THEIR REMAINS
It's a bone.
@@triumph.over.shipwreck no its a guy
@@iamweirdo6963 well, we seem to be at an impasse of disagreement. What do the bones have to say on the matter...?
@@triumph.over.shipwreckdon't be purposely obtuse, you're fully aware that this is about respecting human remains and not the "bone's feelings"
@@cartilageconsumer The irony in your feckless demand is palpable.
This is the kind of video i would like to watch....the work involved is unimaginable... Thanks bro....
I have to add to your talk about context: paleontologists, especially dinosaur/vertebrate paleontologists, really struggle with this too. Fossil poachers will take specimens from places and sell them online, including significant ones. It's why there was such a mad scramble to find the man who found the neotype Spinosaurus's bones. Ever since it was discovered there have been poachers around the site, so paleontologists Ibrahim et. al. have been working hard to find more of the fossil (It was the paper with the tail). Even tourists struggle with poaching, as fossil tourism is a thing. Moving a fossil (or archeological find) causes much of the context behind it to be lost, especially so in paleontology, where the specimen is essentially useless for science without it.
Basically, if you find a fossil or archeological find, leave it where it is, and notify the relevant authorities. Doubly so for human remains, as they may be from a murder.
You forgot how the mountain is actually an Egyptian pyramid that was made with power tools that someone got from aliens
and the aliens killed the hikers!!!!
@@justagyroontheinternetomg it all makes sense now!!!
@danny.55 calm down friend, they were just making a joke, don't be so pressed about everything :)
@danny.55 Your humor would blend perfectly with the Sahara. You've found a joke unfunny because a person said "Egyptian pyramid" instead of just pyramid. Here's a lesson for the class, you're a wonderful example of irony.
It's more grounded than you think, I've heard substantially more people believe specifically that the Pyramids of Egypt were built by alien. Very few times have I have heard someone say "The Pyramids of the Aztec people were built by aliens."
@danny.55 You can make jokes about gay and black people, you just have to be funny when doing it. It's just rare that people with no insight into the subject of their own material are funny.
The ending was heartbreaking, its such a crazy mystery that we literally have all these bones, have no idea how they got there and people are rapidly destroying the site's context. I hope we can let these people rest someday. Thanks a lot Milo, we are glad you're back ❤️
wait, according to local mythology, they were pelted to death with iron balls.. and they had anemia? thats pretty ironic
Who the hell just goes OOH A BONE LETS TOUCH THAT
Who the hell goes OOH Heumen bones lets play jenga
That’s something that always catches my attention. It’s extremely disrespectful to the real human beings whom those bones belonged to. These were real people at some point, the only people who have a right to mess with them are the scientists who can do so without disrespecting the real people. Just because they died a long time ago doesn’t make it ok, and I always see this stuff happening disproportionately to non-white remains.
Sorry for poor English.
@@bellaschoug3329 cue Team Fortress 2 doctor saying "and that's how I lost my medical licence..."
Archeologists
@@Mushroom_Witch More accurately pseudo-archeologists who think that having an ancient deceased bone as a souvenir is "cool".
It makes me sick that people are disturbing this sight, especially that they are making "sculptures" with and stealing the human remains. It's so completely disrespectful, selfish, and short sighted.
I mean it's probably ignorant New Age spiritual types of tourists who think they're "honoring" the dead by building impromptu cairns with their bones, rather than allowing them to sit scattered in the lake bed. Doesn't excuse it, but that's the most likely explanation.
I mean, to play Devil's Advocate for a minute here, there are entire cultures that arrange the bones of the dead in an artistic manner. The Paris Catacombs are literally tunnels and walls lined with the sorted and stacked bones of millions of people. The ancient Levant was home to Skull Cults that cleaned, decorated, and displayed the skulls of dead ancestors. Norse seers and volgas would use the bones of the dead as scrying or fortune telling tools. The arranging of human remains into sculpture is actually an ancient practice, with roots in many cultures. It's entirely possible that some of these may be done by people who were truly showing their respects.
Theyre dead. If they wanted their bones to be respected they would have had a normal burial.
@@SkunkApe407all these people are so sensitive to all the wrong things that dont even matter. They will complain all day long about other people's actions online. 😂 They are all jokes
@@SkunkApe407this is true, however it is done by members of that culture, probably descendants. It is not being done by tourists visiting for fun.
How self-absorbed do you have to be to go "yeah, let's play around with this human body, that sounds like a great idea." I feel like if most people saw a skeleton, we'd have the good sense to not do such a thing, but then, it only takes a handful of idiots to ruin something for everyone.
It's common for hikers to use human bones as trail markers. No waste, using available resources, and piled bones stand out amidst the rocks.
If you found out about hikers that had done that 3000 years ago you would think it was a cultural artifact and respect the custom, so why hold modern hikers to a different standard?
If you are familiar with ohms law, you will know that the total resistance of a parallel circuit is less than the smallest resistor.
In the same way, the effective intelligence of many groups of people is less than the most ignorant ass among them.
You'd have to be self absorbed NOT to play with the bones like building blocks
@@chrismanuel9768 mostly because this is literally just playing with human bones and not using them as markers for anything
To be fair it's not like the dead guys need them anymore
Over $50 for one item of clothing is way out of my budget, but if I had it, I would buy one. It's great art and fund educational programming.
Middle aged archeology major with a life long obsession in said topic & this is the first time ive heard of Roopkund Lake. Super cool! Keep up the great work Milo!
"The study of a topic of time" "an idea that runs through your fingers like sand" is a very beautiful way of describing archeology.
One thing that comes to mind at the mention of Greeks deep in Asia is the Indo-Greek and Greco-Bactrian Kingdoms from antiquity. These were formed following Alexander the Great’s conquests of Central Asia. These were of course never fully Greek, but there were significant amounts of Greek settlers who lived in these regions and Greek was spoken there for centuries.
Despite this I find it unlikely that any Greek populations would have survived for the nearly two millennia required to be able to participate in the doomed expedition of Group B without being assimilated into local culture. The prospect of an isolated inland community living on from antiquity is fascinating nonetheless.
Yeah, that was my first thought, but as there's over a millenium between the first Indo-Greeks and the demise of group B they would have been fully assimilated, including genetically, so wouldn't be able to be identified as uniquely Greek.
@@Quintinohthree that’s exactly what I was thinking. There is theoretically a remote possibility of an isolated village of Indo-Greeks surviving somehow, but that’s incredibly unlikely and we’d probably know about it.
That's forgetting they weren't related, iirc
@@Florian87 maybe group B was made up of people going to visit the remnants(I'm not sure if the area and buildings of those kingdoms are more like ruins, semi preserved but in disrepair, or nearly non existent so please correct me) with the person who made up group C being their guide, there also could've been more people in group C but we just don't know due to modern day tourists enjoying the morbid idea of "human legos" and/or there were other parts of group B/C who were separated somehow.
@@mindless_drift to my knowledge very little of the Ancient Greek cities in Central Asia remain beside some strewn ruins. I suppose it’s possible the group was visiting, but that wouldn’t explain what they were doing so far east beyond where any old cities would have been. It’s an interesting idea though.
"As a proud owner of a pair of iron balls myself [...]".
I have no words, but bravo
Love how Milo realized that there's celcius marking on the thermometre, commented on it, said he won't need to convert the numbers in his posts at least, then *still* proceded without saying what the temperature is in celcius. Now I feel he's just bullying people. XD
Yep, I had to pause to check it out. -5 Deg C. Too fkn cold for me 🥶
43 here today in Perth and that seems pleasant now😂
He is at this point you have got to have seen the sly grin after stating that for the nth time and even zooming in on it but putting the Celsius juuust out of frame :D
30° is a winter temperature... in dubaï! Milo actually is flaunting his YT money with that elaborate set up
30 C is pretty hot
@@Nixdigo *you're* pretty hot 👈😎
Jesus, no wonder they froze. Look at them. Not a scrap of clothing to be seen anywhere.
Their bones are out, shameless if you ask me!
It chilled them right to their bones
Not a pick on them.
They should have bought Milo's sweater
And look at those damn shoes
Torn to pieces
How are you gonna protect your feet from the ice like that
Since we’re talking about Nanda Devi, I have to bring up one of my favorite weird history moments: when the CIA hired a bunch of professional alpinists to put a nuclear powered listening device on top of Nanda Devi mountain. They had to leave it behind when they were caught by bad conditions, and never found it when they went back to look.
Apparently Nanda Devi isn’t a snitch.
@@fishainsley Yaaas, we love a queen who doesn't snitch.
Maybe radiation killed the people in the lake :P
@@santiagogarza8121 With this kinds of devices, as long as the housing isn't breached or removed it wouldn't irradiate anyone or anything. But more than a couple nuclear contamination accidents have occurred from people opening them not knowing what they were, looking for metal to sell as scrap. Russia was infamous for using these in austere conditions and they were "orphaned" and caused accidents as civilians found them later and opened them not knowing
Yoinks, orphaned sources are no joke!
Such a wholesome merch drop dude mad respect
I love that you're including your sources in the description now; just last month I was writing a paper on interpretations of Karahan Tepe, and while I did use your video on the topic, I thought that it would be great if you were to include a source list in the comments or in the description... do you still have source lists for the Turkey archaeology videos, and is it possible to add them to those descriptions??
I really like that you leave mistakes and flubbed takes in your videos. It really makes you more relatable and allows the viewer to connect with both you as the presenter and the material.
"leave mistakes and flubbed takes in" Admitting to ones mistakes is what builds trust.
Milo: Repeatedly refers to how freezing cold the room is.
Also Milo: Mentions that there's snow in the fireplace.
Me, a Canadian: Makes frustrated gestures at the screen and wonders if I can order a cord of firewood for delivery.
I know Milo loves the outdoors, but has he explained why he's recording in an unheated studio? I worry for his health!
He explained the studio in his video celebrating being over a million subs and announcing "Phase Three" of the channel, so I'd suggest watching it to get the full breakdown, but the tl;dr is that he bought a house that is... Very much showing its 100+ years and the studio space in particular needs a lot of work that he simply hasn't been able to get done yet but it's still useable enough.
He's still renovating this house and his studio in particular has zero insulated walls, if I remember correctly. Check the house tour for the actual information, but it was something about the room not being renovated yet.
@@Wote89 Thanks, I hadn't watched that one yet!
@@knuffelmuff7682 Thanks!
@@Wote89I watched that video and just forgot until you and another poster mentioned it.
5:20 the fact that you pushed yourself, your brain to say her name right says a lot about your fabulous personality 🫵 you rock! Great content 😁
His*. That's a man's name
Masking tape is great for framing production wise. You can put tape on the walls to indicate where the frame boundaries are in real space without having to run to the camera to check. You can even do thing like make a tape outline that shows you where you can operate within, without being in the way of something thrown up in post. Can also outline the stands for filming equipment, So if you need to move it, you can put everything back exactly how it was. Masking tape is the best to do this with because it doesn't peel paint, leave residue, it's about as easy to remove as to put on (leave yourself a pull tab) and you can write on it with sharpie easily without it smearing or bleeding through.
💯
Gaffers tape would be even better.
@@karenbeads but it is also really expensive.
Correction: buy *good* masking tape to stop pen bleeding through
@@rambo-cambo3581 Fair enough.
23:58 The one member of Group C was actually of Southeast Asian descent.
"We were unable to model the Roopkund_C individual as a genetic clade with any present-day populations, but we were able to model its ancestry as ~82% Malay-related and ~18% Vietnamese-related using qpAdm7, showing that this individual is consistent with being of Southeast Asian origin."
Though I understand the confusion since the paper also suggests Roopkund_C had East Asian-related ancestry at the beginning of the paper.
Correct! That is why I specified that they were close the Malay people since that is the largest genetically similar modern group to them. I did miss the south East Asian specificity in my East Asian descriptor though.
the only group i could think of is the Cham-Malays they still exist there today. Still they are also Muslim by the 15th century. Could only speculate why individual C would be in this area along with group B.
@@miniminuteman773 I think i solved this part of the puzzle this person is likely to be Cham - Malay from Vietnam. Since Hinduism was practiced there even till late 16th century we are closer to the date of his demise. He must have been an outlier still clinging to Hindu customs and tradition since most Cham became Muslim. Furthermore there was some conflict in the region around this time. The rest is just speculation. Need more information of individuals of group B maybe they help C escape conflict maybe they are both devout Hindus on pilgrimage. I have the same Y haplogroup O as he is. so i know we're related lol by at least within 5000 years. I'm of peninsular origin he is likely Chamic origin.
"The only thing worse than hiking with a friend and finding a body, is hiking by yourself and finding 800"
Nah, the worse thing is hiking by yourself and finding a _friend's_ body. Or even worse, _a body that wants to be your friend._
what about hiking with your friend and finding 800 bodies identical to your friend?
@@Brigtzen that ain't my problem, it's my friend who got beef with a lake
@@laosko1042 a real homie helps a homie fight an eldritch lake
@@Brigtzenhe kept on dying on the final boss
@@RandomN4me geez, now i get why he brought you there, he just needs help with the boss!
Right as Milo started hammering the first nail, my game had a thunder sound effect play, and so it sounded like Milo's hammering made thunder sounds
Could also be a cold sink. Areas in the shape of a bowl get far colder than the surroundings. Cold air falls down hill and will stop at a cold sink that is continuously refreshed with colder air. They are often the coldest recorded locations in any given state or country. People naturally head towards them for relief from winds and weather not knowing the danger inherent.
This is an underrated comment
Lol I love the bit about insofar, which you totally use wrong, immediately followed by you retracting a furthermore, which you used perfectly
Immediately scrolled down to the comments to seek the inevitable roast. I think the phrase he was actually looking for was "let alone"; how his brain tossed up "insofar" is a mystery comparable to the definitely japanese parasol rifles
I knew I would find this comment
@@no-relic I knew you'd come looking
I love this channel. Archaeology is all about context and that is important because all of us, alive right now, share the same history. It belongs to all of us. Removing something from its context renders us unable to tell the whole story. By looting, rearranging, misplacing, etc. you're stealing from yourself. You'll never get that piece of the puzzle back.
Excellent comment!!
Hi Milo, I tend to lurk in the background and not comment, but I've watched a good number of your videos now, and thought I would give you a comment ☺
I've watched your Philip Zeba and Ancient Apocalypse Debunking videos, and while it is fun to watch a good debunking, I also find it tiring after a while.
Right now, I'm enjoying just watching you present archeological sites - it's nice to watch someone be enthusiastic about their field. Keep it up!
Scientists' commitment to accuracy and specificity is hillarious sometimes:
"So we don't know how many bodies? So 'a bunch'. But we can't be vague...
We found between 3 & 300 bodies!"
300 to 800 is a big gap lol
I mean you cover all your bases.
And yet, I don't recognize a single one
@@lavaosit means at least 300 individuals confirmed and enough bones across the place that if a reasonal number is missing from each skeleton you could get up to at most 800.
It also means the site was preserved to their best capabilities rather than taking everything out and loosing whatever context might still be there after all the hiker meddling
One of the bodies, please tell me you dont think you would reconise a dead skeleton.@@Outerscale
My parents named me after this mountain/goddess after they'd been traveling through India 35 years ago. I almost never think about it anymore and it was so unexpected to suddenly hear the name in your video haha. Great to hear new stories!
This is so cool, nice to meet you!!!
Oh wow that’s cool
Wow! How cool that you found this video! Your parents did a pretty awesome job choosing such an interesting name!
Cool
That's a good name even by Indian standards!
I'm so glad that one of the first ethics lessons I learned was that you cannot take anything from public land or significant sites. My parents were big on seeing these places & drilled into our heads the importance of causing as little impact as possible.
Great video! Love the in-depth analysis and explanation and your humor throughout!
The worst part is the rock slides and moving terrain is gonna be destroying and hiding important things that could tell us so much more
But that's also how some things get uncovered. Things remain hidden until a rock slide reveals them.