Two things Dennis I have found that I get more flash in the pans using 3F in my 50 Cals and larger. So I use 2F in my 50s and larger with better results. I also drill the touch hole out to 1/16. I don’t think the smaller hole lends itself to good ignition. Swiss definitely makes a louder crack. I’m not crazy about the lands on my barrel I doubt it a match grade like a Rice barrel. The lands look very shallow. I took the tang out to see the touch hole which is nicely installed in mine. After watching all your videos on this rifle I would be willing to bet it is the barrel. My SMR rifles are all spot on and I am not a great shot but they all end up where I point the barrel. Those barrels seem to have deeper lands I think they are 1-66 twist. I have to say watching you shoot this rifle I think I may be more frustrated than you! 😢 My wood runner is all pinned together and is going to stay that way for a while as I started a Transition Lancaster Rifle over a year ago and prefer to finish that one first. 70 grains of 3F sounds right for a a 50 as I mentioned I use 2f only 80 which is probably comparable to 70 3F. The paper doesn’t lie 70 is your load
I once drilled the touch hole out to 1/16 also. The results were catastrophic. The blow back filled my face with un burned powder. I was digging it out from under my skin for days. I could have easily lost an eye or two. I am sure it would allow for better ignition, but I am sure that the gunmakers also know that. After my experience with a slightly bigger touch hole I realized why that hole was as small as it is. It is for the safety of the shooter. I am glad that it works for you but please be careful. Might add that the shot I am referring to was taken from the hip. I was holding the gun at waist level just in case something bad happened. And it did. Thankfully I was not shouldering the rifle. And unfortunately the woe’s with my Woodsrunner are not over. Kibler wants me to return the rifle to the factory, which I am doing. It has very weird and strange performance. In my 60+ years of shooting experience I have seen two other rifles with similar traits. Both of these turned out to have metal stress in the barrel. One was a Rem 700 and the other was a Ruger 77.
@@dennispritchardoutdoors7882 LOL i said 1/16 not 3/16; sure you were not shooting a brown bess with a touch hole you can drive a truck through? far as the barrel goes it could be luck of the draw. Good luck
@@joemolf3894 it was 1/16 and it fought back!!! Perhaps the bigger touch holes in some of the older arms was due to the rather poor quality of the powder that was then in use. Just a guess on my part. And I, like you, think it is the luck of the draw as far as the barrel goes. And I think I drew the short straw!!!!
That was awesome! Great shot ,can't wait to see you with a new sight. With my eye I thought about a peepsight from track of the wolf it would go in place of the rear sight, no elevation, you would have to tap it right or left just like the one you have now . Anyway thanks for the video 🤠
Good IDEA! I LOVE IT! "I learned" shot gunning with a 97 and just used the barrel about 10:00 still do. Not as good as I once was, but I'm as good as I will ever be?
Dennis i don't have a woodsrunner but i do have colonials and a southern mountain rifle and am building the second. I use 90 grains of 2f in the 50 colonials and 60 grains of 3f in the 45 SMR and they shoot well for me. Can't hunt turkeys with them here in PA though. I have never tried using an over powder wad just a patched round ball, and with any of my rifles i can hit a red coat in the face at a 100 yards easy. Good luck buddy.
I shoot a Kibler SMR. It is my first flinter with the white lightening liner in the barrel. I read that it is a good idea to pick it between every shot so i have been doing it since new. I give it a quick pick before i prime the pan. Seems like a good habit, i haven't had a flash in the pan yet. Never had a failure to fire in any way for that matter.
A blocked, or partially blocked, flash hole is no doubt the prime reason for having a flash in the pan. I always make sure it is open when actually hunting, but I get too complacent when target shooting, so consequently I get the occasional flash in the pan. The price I pay for my laziness I reckon. I plan to do an in-depth video on both the flash in the pan and the infamous klack and no flash. Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
Hello Dennis, like your videos a lot. I have been working up loads for my new .54 Woodsrunner. I would like to give you some advise. Stop jumping around with powder quantity so much. A .50 cal should shoot a round ball good with around 60-70 grains. And to my way of thinking, you might be using way too much lube! It’s possible the ball is skipping down the barrel, not spinning properly. I am as old as you, and have been shooting muzzleloaders since the 1980’s. I understand that load development is a very personal achievement, just trying to help. Good luck and keep the video’s coming!
I am sure that you are just trying to be helpful and I very much appreciate that. But it would seem that our findings are very much different. I am the eternal experimenter. Always looking to improve on whatever it is that I am involved with. I take what is considered to be kosher and perform my own experiments and from that form my own opinions. My conclusions often do not agree with what is popularly accepted. One thing that I have found to be a truth is that you can never tell a gun what it is going to shoot it’s best with. You have to let the gun tell you what it likes, or what it shoots the best with. What a wonderful world it would be if we could dictate to our rifles what they will shoot their best with. But I have found that none of my rifles listen to me or anyone else for that matter. They like what they like and that settles it. And perhaps it is merely coincidental but not one of my muzzleloaders shoot well at all with light to medium loads. They all shoot their best by far with what most folks call heavy loads. I actually wish they would shoot lighter loads for economic reasons, but they don’t. I thought that my Woodsrunner was going to shoot 70 grain loads well but such was not the case. It will not shoot anything from 50 to 150 grain loads with any degree of accuracy at all. It shoots everything terrible. And every day it shoots further and further to the left. I keep moving the rear sights to the right and the point of impact keeps going left. The rear sight is now so far to the right that it is just barely hanging on to the barrel. And the accuracy resembles a 00 Buckshot pattern from a shotgun. It is on it’s way back to the factory. My guess is stress in the barrel, but we will see what Kibler comes up with. And if I use less lube the accuracy is worse. Much worse. You are far from the first to tell me I use too much lube. All I can say is paper don’t lie. Accuracy in all of my rifles is always better with heavy lube. Never, not even once has it been better with lightly lubed patches. And I am glad to see that there are those who agree with me. As I said I let the rifle tell me how much powder or lube it wants. And it tells me this by the holes it punches in the targets. I understand the language spoken by the rifles themselves. And I stand on the side of visible, proven results, rather than on the side of conventional wisdom. Too often I have found conventional wisdom to be anything but correct. Too often people just repeat what they have heard rather than test it out for themselves. And if someone test things out for themselves, and their conclusions are different than mine, that just proves all the more that every rifle is a law unto itself, and nothing can be taken for granted. Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments. Dennis
I noticed when in earlier video’s, when you were shooting a Southern Mtn Rifle, you would put a full patch over the powder, before you loaded the round ball. That seemed to work well for you with that rifle. Have you tried that with the Woodsrunner? I also agree with you on cherry. As my cherry stock gets out in the sun, it gets much darker.I just built a Woodsrunner in cherry, in .54. Still working on my hunting loads. Keep the videos coming, very interesting.
@@glockbum a subscriber suggested that I try Tow over the powder instead of the cotton patch. It actually works better than the cotton patch and is certainly more period correct. And I use it in the Woodsrunner . Actually most anything can be used as an over the powder wadding to help protect your main patch. For quick reloads while hunting I omit it altogether. But when looking for the best accuracy possible I will always use an over the powder wadding of some sort.
It is a beauty for sure, BUT it has a problem with the barrel. It is going back to the shop for a checkup . Also I have never liked the finish on my Dixie Arms Poor Boy. The color was not right and it had waves in it that was the result of being polished to a high luster , either by hand with a power tool, or a machine that was out if whack! Those type of rifles never had a high polish on them.,That cost more money. They were not called Poor Boys for nothing. That has always bothered me. So I took the day yesterday and disassembled it. I then draw filed that wavy barrel to remove all those ripples and that fake looking finish. As I said , I have never been satisfied with the looks of that barrel, and now laid up beside my Kibler it really looked bad. But not anymore!!!!! All the flats are now perfectly straight and flat. Not a sign of a ripple. And the patina now looks authentic. I have always liked everything about that rifle except the looks of the barrel. Now the barrel is it’s strong point. Pat, pat, pat. I am patting myself on the back for doing such a great job!!!!
I like the cherry too. How did you get it looking that way? I have no experience doing that, but I ordered just yesterday the Kibler's Southern Mountain Rifle in the .45 caliber in cherry, and need to know what to get to stain and coat it. Or what ever.
Howdy. I used Laurel Mountain cherry stain that I bought from Kibler. It is very potent stuff and you will need to thin it a lot. I used probably 10% stain and 90% thinner (alcohol). Once stained I used pure Tung Oil as my finish. I applied the first coat and used Bone Black to age the looks of the wood. Kibler has an excellent video on using the Bone Black. After that dried a couple of days I applied a half dozen more coats letting it dry between coats. When using Tung Oil apply it liberally, let it soak in for a few minutes, then wipe it ALL off. Let dry then repeat until it quits soaking in to the wood. I then rub it down with a stock wax that I make from beeswax and linseed oil. Hope this helps. Dennis
Well I use 2F Swiss learned to use that powder shooten BPRC iron silhouette. There I use 1.5f with super results and SPG lube. By the way, I also use SPG lube on muzzle load patches and muzzle load shotgun felt wads. My grandpap, born three months after Custer was killed on the little big horn used to tell me that his pap told him the proper BP rifle loads was a powder charge 1/2 the grain weight of the ball. Now my 54 cal balls .529 weighs about 224 grains. Is grand pap was right then powder charge should be 112 grains. Quit the banger. Personally I begin with same powder grain weight as bore diameter .54 around 60 grains to start. Now Kibler recommends 60-70 but me thinks perhaps Jim is being a bit conservative.
One of the interesting things about black powder shooting is all of the various theories that must work for a least someone. I learned a long time ago to listen to it all and then put it to the test. If it works for me fine.,If not it goes in the trash heap. But the main thing that I listen to is what my rifles are telling me by observing the holes left in the paper targets. I have found that ,when it comes to accuracy , that paper doesn’t lie.
THANK YOU SR! may we have another? Good to know "I'm not the only one flashing my pan, or clatching. but I have a brother in the rear laughing each time. she has one fast lock, your hang fire is about my average fire. WOW you did a Good JOB! she is a good looking stonner. Boy you got a little slice of heaven on your land! GOD! BLESS! Sorry? "I would" have shot a Tom just to prove I could, that's how I got a hummingbird with a red ryder as a lil kid, still feel bad, but I did it on the fly in a flooded cow pasture, I was ther. This video was good enough I had to take a ranchwalk check on the critters' lap. But "I Have" a new banana tree/pant? stem char rolling in my tumbler for my next test.. me thinks' "I need to" build one, I too like wood a little low key, less is "more" and a bit more of a tool, as a "tool guy", but I love all wood. Good looking bird, Nice shot droped him on his spot, buddies told him to "get up", darn near could have had another.
I like those kibler kits, but just can’t justify 1,400 or more dollars for a gun you have to put together your self. My old Pedersoli frontier will just have to keep filling the freezer.
Jason 1400 is yes a lot of money but a drop in the bucket compared to a custom rifle built by a Master. Flintlock Rifles are very cool IMO and Kibler Rifles get you in the game with quality materials and some pride in ownership using your own finishing skills. If you ever build one using a preinlet stock you will understand it is well worth it in the time you have saved. That’s why Master Builder get 5 or more times that amount easily!
Two things Dennis I have found that I get more flash in the pans using 3F in my 50 Cals and larger. So I use 2F in my 50s and larger with better results. I also drill the touch hole out to 1/16. I don’t think the smaller hole lends itself to good ignition. Swiss definitely makes a louder crack. I’m not crazy about the lands on my barrel I doubt it a match grade like a Rice barrel. The lands look very shallow. I took the tang out to see the touch hole which is nicely installed in mine. After watching all your videos on this rifle I would be willing to bet it is the barrel. My SMR rifles are all spot on and I am not a great shot but they all end up where I point the barrel. Those barrels seem to have deeper lands I think they are 1-66 twist. I have to say watching you shoot this rifle I think I may be more frustrated than you! 😢
My wood runner is all pinned together and is going to stay that way for a while as I started a Transition Lancaster Rifle over a year ago and prefer to finish that one first. 70 grains of 3F sounds right for a a 50 as I mentioned I use 2f only 80 which is probably comparable to 70 3F. The paper doesn’t lie 70 is your load
I once drilled the touch hole out to 1/16 also. The results were catastrophic. The blow back filled my face with un burned powder. I was digging it out from under my skin for days. I could have easily lost an eye or two. I am sure it would allow for better ignition, but I am sure that the gunmakers also know that. After my experience with a slightly bigger touch hole I realized why that hole was as small as it is. It is for the safety of the shooter. I am glad that it works for you but please be careful. Might add that the shot I am referring to was taken from the hip. I was holding the gun at waist level just in case something bad happened. And it did. Thankfully I was not shouldering the rifle.
And unfortunately the woe’s with my Woodsrunner are not over. Kibler wants me to return the rifle to the factory, which I am doing. It has very weird and strange performance. In my 60+ years of shooting experience I have seen two other rifles with similar traits. Both of these turned out to have metal stress in the barrel. One was a Rem 700 and the other was a Ruger 77.
@@dennispritchardoutdoors7882 LOL i said 1/16 not 3/16; sure you were not shooting a brown bess with a touch hole you can drive a truck through? far as the barrel goes it could be luck of the draw. Good luck
@@joemolf3894 it was 1/16 and it fought back!!! Perhaps the bigger touch holes in some of the older arms was due to the rather poor quality of the powder that was then in use. Just a guess on my part.
And I, like you, think it is the luck of the draw as far as the barrel goes. And I think I drew the short straw!!!!
That was awesome! Great shot ,can't wait to see you with a new sight. With my eye I thought about a peepsight from track of the wolf it would go in place of the rear sight, no elevation, you would have to tap it right or left just like the one you have now . Anyway thanks for the video 🤠
Good IDEA! I LOVE IT! "I learned" shot gunning with a 97 and just used the barrel about 10:00 still do. Not as good as I once was, but I'm as good as I will ever be?
Awesome gun. Love the Queen Ann styled lock.
Those tom turkys are taunting you. They know whats comin. They have some sense o humor!
@@jackhooper3927 They often display a twisted sense of humor.
Dennis i don't have a woodsrunner but i do have colonials and a southern mountain rifle and am building the second. I use 90 grains of 2f in the 50 colonials and 60 grains of 3f in the 45 SMR and they shoot well for me. Can't hunt turkeys with them here in PA though. I have never tried using an over powder wad just a patched round ball, and with any of my rifles i can hit a red coat in the face at a 100 yards easy. Good luck buddy.
I shoot a Kibler SMR. It is my first flinter with the white lightening liner in the barrel. I read that it is a good idea to pick it between every shot so i have been doing it since new. I give it a quick pick before i prime the pan. Seems like a good habit, i haven't had a flash in the pan yet. Never had a failure to fire in any way for that matter.
A blocked, or partially blocked, flash hole is no doubt the prime reason for having a flash in the pan. I always make sure it is open when actually hunting, but I get too complacent when target shooting, so consequently I get the occasional flash in the pan. The price I pay for my laziness I reckon. I plan to do an in-depth video on both the flash in the pan and the infamous klack and no flash.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
A Kibler next on my bucket list love that rifle
You will not regret it.
No flinch Dennis strikes again...
I have never found a flinch ti be helpful!!
Hello Dennis, like your videos a lot. I have been working up loads for my new .54 Woodsrunner. I would like to give you some advise. Stop jumping around with powder quantity so much. A .50 cal should shoot a round ball good with around 60-70 grains. And to my way of thinking, you might be using way too much lube! It’s possible the ball is skipping down the barrel, not spinning properly.
I am as old as you, and have been shooting muzzleloaders since the 1980’s. I understand that load development is a very personal achievement, just trying to help.
Good luck and keep the video’s coming!
I am sure that you are just trying to be helpful and I very much appreciate that. But it would seem that our findings are very much different. I am the eternal experimenter. Always looking to improve on whatever it is that I am involved with. I take what is considered to be kosher and perform my own experiments and from that form my own opinions. My conclusions often do not agree with what is popularly accepted. One thing that I have found to be a truth is that you can never tell a gun what it is going to shoot it’s best with. You have to let the gun tell you what it likes, or what it shoots the best with. What a wonderful world it would be if we could dictate to our rifles what they will shoot their best with. But I have found that none of my rifles listen to me or anyone else for that matter. They like what they like and that settles it. And perhaps it is merely coincidental but not one of my muzzleloaders shoot well at all with light to medium loads. They all shoot their best by far with what most folks call heavy loads. I actually wish they would shoot lighter loads for economic reasons, but they don’t. I thought that my Woodsrunner was going to shoot 70 grain loads well but such was not the case. It will not shoot anything from 50 to 150 grain loads with any degree of accuracy at all. It shoots everything terrible. And every day it shoots further and further to the left. I keep moving the rear sights to the right and the point of impact keeps going left. The rear sight is now so far to the right that it is just barely hanging on to the barrel. And the accuracy resembles a 00 Buckshot pattern from a shotgun. It is on it’s way back to the factory. My guess is stress in the barrel, but we will see what Kibler comes up with.
And if I use less lube the accuracy is worse. Much worse. You are far from the first to tell me I use too much lube. All I can say is paper don’t lie. Accuracy in all of my rifles is always better with heavy lube. Never, not even once has it been better with lightly lubed patches. And I am glad to see that there are those who agree with me.
As I said I let the rifle tell me how much powder or lube it wants. And it tells me this by the holes it punches in the targets. I understand the language spoken by the rifles themselves. And I stand on the side of visible, proven results, rather than on the side of conventional wisdom. Too often I have found conventional wisdom to be anything but correct. Too often people just repeat what they have heard rather than test it out for themselves. And if someone test things out for themselves, and their conclusions are different than mine, that just proves all the more that every rifle is a law unto itself, and nothing can be taken for granted.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments.
Dennis
I noticed when in earlier video’s, when you were shooting a Southern Mtn Rifle, you would put a full patch over the powder, before you loaded the round ball. That seemed to work well for you with that rifle. Have you tried that with the Woodsrunner? I also agree with you on cherry. As my cherry stock gets out in the sun, it gets much darker.I just built a Woodsrunner in cherry, in .54. Still working on my hunting loads.
Keep the videos coming, very interesting.
@@glockbum a subscriber suggested that I try Tow over the powder instead of the cotton patch. It actually works better than the cotton patch and is certainly more period correct. And I use it in the Woodsrunner . Actually most anything can be used as an over the powder wadding to help protect your main patch.
For quick reloads while hunting I omit it altogether. But when looking for the best accuracy possible I will always use an over the powder wadding of some sort.
Another great one. Shes a beauty.
It is a beauty for sure, BUT it has a problem with the barrel. It is going back to the shop for a checkup .
Also I have never liked the finish on my Dixie Arms Poor Boy. The color was not right and it had waves in it that was the result of being polished to a high luster , either by hand with a power tool, or a machine that was out if whack! Those type of rifles never had a high polish on them.,That cost more money. They were not called Poor Boys for nothing. That has always bothered me. So I took the day yesterday and disassembled it. I then draw filed that wavy barrel to remove all those ripples and that fake looking finish. As I said , I have never been satisfied with the looks of that barrel, and now laid up beside my Kibler it really looked bad.
But not anymore!!!!!
All the flats are now perfectly straight and flat. Not a sign of a ripple. And the patina now looks authentic. I have always liked everything about that rifle except the looks of the barrel. Now the barrel is it’s strong point.
Pat, pat, pat.
I am patting myself on the back for doing such a great job!!!!
@@dennispritchardoutdoors7882 You my friend do absolutely wonderful work and are a perfectionist! I can’t wait to see it!
I like the cherry too. How did you get it looking that way? I have no experience doing that, but I ordered just yesterday the Kibler's Southern Mountain Rifle in the .45 caliber in cherry, and need to know what to get to stain and coat it. Or what ever.
Howdy.
I used Laurel Mountain cherry stain that I bought from Kibler.
It is very potent stuff and you will need to thin it a lot. I used probably 10% stain and 90% thinner (alcohol).
Once stained I used pure Tung Oil as my finish. I applied the first coat and used Bone Black to age the looks of the wood. Kibler has an excellent video on using the Bone Black.
After that dried a couple of days I applied a half dozen more coats letting it dry between coats.
When using Tung Oil apply it liberally, let it soak in for a few minutes, then wipe it ALL off. Let dry then repeat until it quits soaking in to the wood.
I then rub it down with a stock wax that I make from beeswax and linseed oil.
Hope this helps.
Dennis
Well I use 2F Swiss learned to use that powder shooten BPRC iron silhouette. There I use 1.5f with super results and SPG lube. By the way, I also use SPG lube on muzzle load patches and muzzle load shotgun felt wads. My grandpap, born three months after Custer was killed on the little big horn used to tell me that his pap told him the proper BP rifle loads was a powder charge 1/2 the grain weight of the ball. Now my 54 cal balls .529 weighs about 224 grains. Is grand pap was right then powder charge should be 112 grains. Quit the banger. Personally I begin with same powder grain weight as bore diameter .54 around 60 grains to start. Now Kibler recommends 60-70 but me thinks perhaps Jim is being a bit conservative.
One of the interesting things about black powder shooting is all of the various theories that must work for a least someone. I learned a long time ago to listen to it all and then put it to the test. If it works for me fine.,If not it goes in the trash heap. But the main thing that I listen to is what my rifles are telling me by observing the holes left in the paper targets. I have found that ,when it comes to accuracy , that paper doesn’t lie.
I’m sure Jim Kibler will work with you to get it sorted out.
He already is working with me
THANK YOU SR! may we have another? Good to know "I'm not the only one flashing my pan, or clatching. but I have a brother in the rear laughing each time. she has one fast lock, your hang fire is about my average fire. WOW you did a Good JOB! she is a good looking stonner. Boy you got a little slice of heaven on your land! GOD! BLESS!
Sorry? "I would" have shot a Tom just to prove I could, that's how I got a hummingbird with a red ryder as a lil kid, still feel bad, but I did it on the fly in a flooded cow pasture, I was ther.
This video was good enough I had to take a ranchwalk check on the critters' lap. But "I Have" a new banana tree/pant? stem char rolling in my tumbler for my next test..
me thinks' "I need to" build one, I too like wood a little low key, less is "more" and a bit more of a tool, as a "tool guy", but I love all wood.
Good looking bird, Nice shot droped him on his spot, buddies told him to "get up", darn near could have had another.
I plan to do a video on what I believe to be the main causes of both klacking and flashes in the pan. Both can pretty much be avoided altogether.
A Kibler is on my list, but first I need to get more pennies saved up.
That was me for several years. A good friend gifted me
with the kit. Now that is a real friend.
I like those kibler kits, but just can’t justify 1,400 or more dollars for a gun you have to put together your self. My old Pedersoli frontier will just have to keep filling the freezer.
As has my Tennessee Poor Boy for the past 20 years.
But I must say that the quality of the components are well worth the price.
Jason 1400 is yes a lot of money but a drop in the bucket compared to a custom rifle built by a Master. Flintlock Rifles are very cool IMO and Kibler Rifles get you in the game with quality materials and some pride in ownership using your own finishing skills. If you ever build one using a preinlet stock you will understand it is well worth it in the time you have saved. That’s why Master Builder get 5 or more times that amount easily!
Swab the barrel even if it is swiss powder
Good idear
Kibler has some fine rifles . It would be nice if I could use mine for turkey not in ohio
Fortunately they are perfectly legal in Virginia, as well they should be. No logical reason that I can think of not to. But what do I know?