Frieren: Beyond Journey's End
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
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Frieren is the most well-received anime in recent memory, and with good reason! But nothing is perfect, and that includes the new Queen of MAL. Where does Frieren fall short of perfection, and how far of a fall is it? Let's find out! 
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As someone who has read the manga for this, you do not have to worry about the demons getting boring.
*vibrates to contain golden city spoilers*
I was looking for this comment lol, I was almost surprised he was making this point but then I remembered not everyone reads the manga.
Yeah, every time I see someone level that complaint about the whole 'demons being a race of pure evil sentient monsters,' I'm like what??? And then I realize they are anime only and go: oh, I get it , you good pfft
Let us sit giddily on our spoilers and be excited for him to find out soon hehe
Madhouse MAKE A SEQUEL FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE PLEASE
The spaghetti bit alone is the best frieren related thing anyone on the internet has made.
The only adjustment I’d make is having Frieren say “it’s what Himmel the hero would have done” instead of requoting his whole spiel
The Costco Frieren memes give it a run for its money, but both are quite good
"and also I love you" absolutely sent me to heaven
This was made to mock the show but ironically it praised it
@@alilweeb7684 I also think it makes perfect sense since Frieren is like a Robot and Fern was literally raised by her, of course she'd pick up things.
About the catchphrases I think that’s a natural way people talk. Corrupt priest becomes a nickname at that point. I do magic as a hobby and I like magic somewhat are reflexive answers to a complicated question that evades the question when a person doesn’t want to give any further explanation
Yeah, the only person who uses "corrupt priest" in the new party is Frieren, I believe.
Agreed, plus I think the show is intentionally using repetition to give a sort of... rhythm? to the dialogue. It feels like reading an epic poem, which is very appropriate to the tone it's going for.
I think with Frieren being pretty clearly coded as autistic, it actually works.
People with autism often will build up a set of default responses to certain questions or reactions, because they know itll come up again, and being put on the spot just for doing what feels natural gets really stressful if you arent prepared.
Frieren has probably been asked something along the lines of "do you even like magic" a few dozen times over the course of her life, and realized that whatever thoughtfully considered answer she mightve once tried to give never seemed to satisfy people as much as the simple and practiced one she now defaults to.
So "somewhat" might be kind of vague and leave a lot of nuance unsaid, but it is probably true in a broader sense while simultaneously sparing the time and effort it would take to give a "proper" answer that would only fall on deaf ears in most cases, making it a good enough response to default to.
Yeah, everyone has mannerisms like that to some extent. You hang around with friends long enough and it's nearly guaranteed you guys will follow some conversation patterns to the point you start repeating the same words and lines verbatim without even thinking about it.
"Corrupt priest" is a bit of a translation issue. It means pretty much that, but it's one word and it's functionally equivalent to Frieren calling Heiter a jackass whenever he is being a jackass
Like, I have phrases that I will repeat ad nauseam I genuinely felt that it made the dialogue sound more like the way people talk in reality and less like professionally scripted dialogue.
According to other Frieren fans, that spaghetti scene you made up is EXACTLY what the entire show is like, and it’s not even bad for that. You hit the nail on the head.
Exactly 😂 I was dying the whole time cause that's literally how the scene goes... and then we all start crying. It's sappy, it's amazing, and it does sound kinda dumb, but that's it. That's the Frieren experience.
TBF the 'perfect' original Hero's party doesn't bother me, because I imagine each flashback is flavoured with Frieren's personal nostalgia.
Also, they were together for an entire decade... Even if they had times when they suffered, there will also be plenty of times where things worked out. If you're looking back fondly - why wouldn't you remember the good times?
There are clear moments when the flashback is a distinctly different location and time in the "hero's journey" which seems to show this - she's not just remembering the time where she was in the same place before, but the time in that 10 year period that most closely matches the current event or feelings.
Yeah, she probably wouldn't remember a situation where himmel took a weird step and fucked up his ankel for a few days where stark didn't do that. Or if she does, it's not brought up because it would be kinda boring
Not only that but the whole point of the second journey is to try and get to know people better because Frieren by her own admission didn't know them that well. She probably keeping thinking about the good parts because she remembers them better that the bad ones.
I agree and read the manga the same way, but I believe that EP has a point that the show or manga never says that the memories were romanticized since Frieren is presented as a character who has incredible memory. As she knows a lot of spells, it's implied her personal memories are true to the past and no way altered and I think the show could at least clarify that a little.
While that’s true, the main critique came in the fact it’s just not conveyed well enough, (according to what I’ve heard I’ve yet to see frieren.)
Frieren uses corrupt priest like persona 5 uses rotten adults
i'd say translation issue
@@pieperson444 Probably the same for both (though god knows I won't check), thus the comparison is apt.
@@pieperson444 likely the term used is more akin to "rotten" than "corrupt".
“Idk I can’t find anything to watch. Maybe I should bite the bullet and watch Frieren.”
*Explanation Point video
“I’ll take that as a sign.”
I actually wasn't rushing to watch it because I was reading the manga, but by God does the anime improve upon it. It's one of those few adaptations that really deserves to exist because it actually enhances the original material. It's neat we got multiple of those in the same anime season.
Dude you can't just say Frieren has no boobs.
She's sensitive about that.
Haha, like she cares about that enough to argue about it
she shouldn't have to worry, fern has enough for the both of them
Himmel would've given her a pair to nourish their children.
@@threefoursevenhundred2405 yikes
@@Hawk7886 ah yes joking about how two FICTIONAL characters would f・ck is truuuly deserving of yikes lmao get over yourself
Demons are just the ChatGPT of magical beings.
They magically gained the ability to "do language", but that's it, nothing more.
I can guarantee you will LOVE the coming arc that deals with it directly.
Translators love to translate the word 魔族 (mazoku) as "demons" despite the fact that 魔 means "supernatural" or "magical", and has the negative connotations only because people fear what they don't understand. I think the closest to Mazoku in D&D would be Tiefling species. They have some devil ancestry, but aren't really devils anymore, and the material plane is their home. "Demonkin" may be the right word to describe them, but may need corrections case by case.
On the other hand, 悪魔 (akuma) means the proper "Demon" of a certain evil alignment. Once again, D&D does the right thing and uses both "Devils" and "Demons" in the setting as the separate species, that are both explicitly native to the other planes of existence.
i love them so much, they just look and act human on a very surface level but lack empathy, selflessness and are fully selfish, self serving beings who hold no form of shame. as such, they literraly arent evil but due to all evil being inherently selfish.
they in turn, no matter what, are simply evil.
Exactly! They're chatGPT! I love that analogy! The demons are just very sophisticated mimics. Like the treasure chest mimic, they look like the thing they copy, but inside they are completely different.
I really hate when people seriously say that Frieren is genociding the demons and being racist because the story goes to great lengths to show they are fundamentally not people! The demons just spec.ed into humanoid shape with language to make hunting easier. They’re like less creepy Alternates from analog horror. No one would say those things are real people. They are monsters. Just like the mimics pretending to be something they are not.
So, unless later chapters of the manga subvert that, it has yet to be seen that Frieren is wrong about the demons.
I think Lugner's last words rather strongly contradict this idea, but it's true that demons don't understand human customs or habits. The ways of living among humans are so alien and of such little consequence to them that they rarely engage with them except to antagonistic ends.
I got a feeling there's higher being (god?) that creating them for some reason, which has something to do with humanity magic.
5:17 I mean he sounds kinda like that. He himself is forced to admit to his immaturity and lack of confrontation skills. So it feels right that we see him as this dork because that's how he is made to feel on his self reflection
I always assumed “corrupt priest” sounded more natural in japanese and became awkward in translation
The word she uses is 生臭坊主 (namagusabouzu), which for what it's worth does have its own dedicated entry on jisho
About the original heroes being paragons rather than real people, I think that’s part of the message of the show. When they get to the place where the hero’s sword is being kept, they talk about how the real person that someone was is lost over time and they’re turned into a symbol. I think the same is true of Frieren, she herself is romanticizing her party as she looks back on them. Not as much as the average people do, but still. She isn’t going to tell the story of the time Himmel fell into a coma for 3 days after fighting a particularly difficult monster and shit himself, or remember the fight between Himmel and Heiter that was kept at subtle jabs between them she wasn’t socially competent enough to pick up on. And that’s fine, we don’t need to know those moments as an audience: the point of the story is on the present, the flashbacks are flavoring that make the present stories more meaningful not the other way around.
“There are no boobs in this.”
*you have caused Fern to pout*
Not me only being able to see half the screen when she's around
There might not be boobs, but there's a disproportionately high number of close up elf feet shots.
@@IHOMilkYeah, that was definitely intentional...
I don't know, I actually really enjoy the repetition of the various phrases like "corrupt priest". It feels like a leitmotif that you would hear over and over again in a soundtrack. The phrase becomes something more than just the sum of its parts and I think that would be lost if you used a thesaurus to word jumble it up. It's like in epic poetry where someone like Achilles or Odysseus has a repetitive epithet.
I feel like it's when a character calls someone a Baka all the time. They don't change that up very often. You wanna save the thesaurus for going off on a massive tirade when the person does something especially egregious
@@isaac_marcusI think this is a translation thing as well since I feel English has a ton more words for the same exact thing than Japan does and or it would feel weird in either language to not say the simple word that everyone uses and go with the ye old English Shakespearean word you heard in 10th grade English Class that one day
For me, the demons being portrayed as this absolute irredeemable evil leaves me with a "I can fix them" feeling. Even during the account of the demon child that himmel decides to spare and tries to integrate into human society, I can't help but feel like under the right circumstances a demon could learn to get along. I believe that is the point of them being evil without redemption. It is absolutely incomprehensible to us that a creature with the same intelligence as us would be physically incapable of empathy. They are the embodiment of the horror of deception and that is what makes them interesting. Even after seeing them betray the humans time after time I cannot stop myself from trying to find the good in them. Are they misunderstood? are they truly just monsters in human form? And that's what they want, they prey upon human goodwill. That is why they are interesting.
I agree
If you are an anime only watcher, you'll understand more why that can't happen in S2. I don't remember if it was said in season one, but demons are simply monsters mimicking humans and their emotions
@Purpletrident yep anime only watcher and they did say that a few time.
@@Purpletrident wrong
To me, I’ve grown tired of the “I can fix them” or “misunderstood villain” trope. Even Disney has milked those tropes dry and it’s the reason why so many people want to see irredeemable evil villains again.
That Zoltrok comparison at the end was just beautiful. If I saw nothing else in this video and just saw that, I'd still give a like. Fine video.
There is another reason why demons are so simple. They represent Arrogance as a character. The type of Arrogance that leads to believe bonds are formed by power, and challenges are to be faced alone, unless you sign a contract with someone else to overcome it (Lenie, Lugner, Aura). Which on its hand leads to lack of development as a person, evolution.
And this is compared to humans who share their weaknesses, which build bonds assisting them with overcoming hardships. This is what the 2nd exam is about - sharing weaknesses to overcome challenges together and becoming stronger.
Great video as always! I think your criticisms were totally fair. Also I absolutely love how Frieren handled an “evil race”, because so many series’ handle it with absolutely zero literacy or tact.
Demons are a refutation of the typical “evil race” essentially saying that for a species to actually be fully evil they would have to be absolutely inhuman in every possible way. The idea of a species that lives with human level intelligence but that have as little understanding of human culture as humans have of dog culture is amazing. Demons are a predator to humans, who are equally as smart but exist in a world utterly detached. They make noises that lure in humans to eat like how humans use a duck caller for hunting without any connection to the meanings of the sounds, just knowing that they work.
Man, your Zoltraak comparison in the conclusion is so strong dude. Definitely puts things into perspective. In a video ostensibly about the .5 you had issue with I can't help but walk away with greater appreciation for it still.
That ending was really special to me since I've always felt that way about the famous stories like Lord of the Rings. It's solid and I fully appreciate and understand what it has done for the genre and respect that, but on its own, it's bland. It's now a very good generic story, but now a days, with so many new takes on what is considered the base work, I can't help but find it boring.
"Corrupt priest" is a translation issue. It makes no sense in English to specify "priest" all the time; the original word qualifies as a nickname much better, and works because it's an in-joke nickname, also because it's not just a generic phrase.
I agree with the talking like the robot part though. And the flashbacks sharing the exact same wording issue as well. It makes sense for Frieren to herself quote Himmel or something; it doesn't make sense why the modern party would stumble onto the same wording so often.
(Added in edit: Specifically, the source text for "corrupt priest", 生草坊主, is not generic Japanese. As an example, the Mandarin translation uses 臭和尚, which has the interesting choice of using Buddhist 和尚 for a religion that resembles Christianity much more than Buddhism, but is otherwise alright, down to 臭 being a common nickname pattern. "Corrupt priest" is what you'd do if you have no time to come up with an English name similarly suited for a nickname and just need _something_ as a translation.)
What would you translate it to then? You breaking it down like that isn’t clear to me. It isn’t a nickname based on his name but his job. That I get.
But the way English works how would you do it?
@@andylozano5193 hmm not having watched the show i’d go with “Father (insert insult here)” (my brain wants to go with “Father Crime” but idk how well that fits). since “Father” is a title it’d fit better.
Father corruption? Sounds more natural than corrupt priest
@@TheLalacreamDisagree, that sounds horrible. Priest is much more clear and specific.
@@andylozano5193 The reason the original japanese (Namagusa Bouzu) is hard to translate is that it's usually taken as a phrase, and Namagusa is a weird/rare insult outside of that context. It literally means "smells raw," so it's alluding to being unrefined, profane, or unclean. Bouzu generally refers to a religious figure but is most often used for Monks in Buddhist temples. As a whole it's a phrase that refers to an archetypical person who should have forsaken worldly desire but hasn't. Imo it's mostly on the translators for not coming up with something more interesting. It's like if soemone called Fern a tsundere (kuudere? idk what she'd fall into) constantly but more niche and specific.
One of the most elaborate ways to cover for the fact you just really wanted to do a cover of the OPs but I'm here for it, both the analysis and the cover
That Zoltraak bit at the end was damn good.
EP after watching Frieren season 1: "I have gone over this show with the thinnest, nitpickiest, most razor toothed comb I could, and I could only come up with three slight issues with the series."
EP when Frieren season 2 comes out: "I have come up with two slight issues with the seires."
No snark, no funny or memeable title, just "Frieren: Beyond Journey's End"
Yeah, this is gonna be a good video.
9:35 laughs in gold and convergent evolution
Anyone that says pure evil races can't be good writing have never encountered the profane joy that are the Skaven.
Interesting, so what's that from
They absolutely can be good writing, it’s just such an incredibly thin line to walk that it tends to be easier to err on the side of complexity
@@RoecleanWarhammer Age of Sigmar, a race whose god literally kills them if they’re not being treacherous bastards all the time.
As a manga reader, you dont have to worry about the demons all being the same. Next season should have some great ones.
He sounds like he has so much fun doing the song
I've never seen someone try so hard to find the negative points of something and make it "look bad". Seriously, what an effort, great video!!
9:53 oh this man is not ready for THAT arc
The toxic old man yaoi will kill him
Ssssssshhhhhh don't give him ideas
El dorado Arc will absolutely be a game changer
GUUUUUYS SHUSH
A very tragic story. Probably the highest point from the manga so far
Nice videos as always, but I do have a gripe of my own concerning the entirety of the "heroes' party" being too perfect. They're really not - case in point:
1. Heiter is a drunkard, and there were times where Frieren and the others mentioned that Heiter was literally too wasted to function and was an active hindrance to the party. Heiter also lied to Frieren for an entire year to get her to take Fern in, while having her translate a book he *knew* didn't have what either him or Frieren thought it would have.
2. Eisen completely mishandled the entirety of the Stark situation, when he felt stark was becoming powerful enough to be a threat the just auto-parried/countered Stark. And instead of explaining the situation to him, he just let Stark leave and never spoke to him again due to his awkwardness, which is something only insane people would do. Eisen was also incredibly pigheaded, and only did things his way (i.e. "toughing out poisons" instead of receiving adequate treatment - which is something he could do, but doesn't mean it's the *best* way to go about it).
3. Frieren herself with her oversleeping tendencies got in trouble with Heiter and Eisen because she was delaying everyone else, not to mention her short-sightedness and being completely selfish which were things brought up over and over again.
4. Himmel's biggest "achievement" which was removing the sword from the stone was an outright fabrication. Which I'm sure will become plot relevant in the future, but also Himmel was incredibly vain to the point where he would delay the party for several days and piss off several artists while trying to commission a statue of himself to leave at a town.
All of these are situations I can list off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other situations I'm not remembering, and I'm sure more will be brought up later. But all of this renders the entire point of them being portrayed as perfect kind of moot when in reality they're not portrayed as perfect at all. I also broke up the text so it won't look much like a wall.
Even though I agree with you I do see his point. The flaws are often written as comedic bits and endearing. So much so that outside of the single incident with the demon child we don't see any mistakes that cause *real* consequences from the heroes party. It would be refreshing to get examples of them failing and Frieren leading the new party learning from those mistakes. Rather than most conflicts just feeling like a rehash of something the previous party already solved. There was two places in the story that could have been examples for that being Qual and Aura. In a way they both did by showing both the world of magic and Frieren's personal growth respectively. We also hear briefly about and know the HP failed since Qual had to be sealed and Aura still alive, but we don't get to see those failures unlike the many examples of success we do see in flashbacks.
For himmel:
Frieren mentioned that she had trouble remembering her mentor, Flamme, because it’s been so long; she has trouble separating flamme the myth from flamme the mentor. Himmel, as stated by someone smarter than me, is theorized to constantly make statues to make sure Frieren has physical proof that he existed, no matter where she went.
@@rylanward7039theorized?
He said so outright.
Don’t forget that Himmel got mad at Frieren when she was damaging the bodies of the soldiers Aura was controlling. She didn’t understand why it was of much importance the first time but she learned why and changed tactics the second time. Heiter also didn’t deceive Frieren for an entire year, it was for 4-5 YEARS.
I think Frierens memories being idealized versions of the old party is a plot twist to come.
Great video as usual. I felt insane when no one mentioned the dialogue writing to the point that I was like “maybe I’m the crazy one and corrupt priest is a totally normal thing to call someone”
to be fair namakusabouzu is a relatively normal insult just not in english
Id imagine calling someone a corrupt priest in an high fantasy setting with magic and sorcery would be pretty normal honestly.
As someone who plays DnD my mind has warped to the point where I think it makes sense as a joke nickname
I mean it’s similar to how Naruto calls Jiraya “Pervy sage” all the time. It’s meant as an insult but also a term of endearment if you are close to the person. Kinda like “cheeky bastard”
I dont understand why people get so hung up on the demon issue, they are humanoid monsters, they are not people. Now it is discovered later in the series that their curiosity drives them to try and understand humans, and it is implied that eventually this understanding could lead them to evolve into fully fledged sentient beings. While we tend to think that sentience comes before sapience, in the case of Demons it seems they have a capacity for sapience, but their sentience is still undeveloped.
The problem is that there are moments when demons do show things like empathy and sentience (mostly thinking of Fern and Stark's solo fight mid season). The author doesn't know how to actually depict demons as they're described, so it comes off as Frieren being cruel and sadistic rather than simply pragmatic.
They have emotions their instincts are just very unique.
It’s weird because the demonic nature Frieren describes makes it seem innate while their actions showcase socialization - like the point the amount of mana they emit and their utter refusal to inhibit it in any way is a social construct and reasoning rather than an environmental one.
It would be fine it if was just shown as a character flaw due to past trauma, but there’s no evidence that she is wrong nor do people really push back on it. It just feels contrived since there seems to be two types of demons, at the very least, being conflated: sentient and non-sentient, but this distinction is never shown and the counterarguments that demonic empathy is bad ie; the demon king, is a very weird argument. There’s a very reductive view here and the show is honestly worse for it.
It's an issue of implications. If the writer isn't careful you risk sending the wrong message to the audience. Replace 'demons' with 'black people' or 'trans people' coupled discourse about a group being inherently evil and not deserving of moral rights, and you see where the potential pitfall lies.
I've seen several people claim they're autism-coded. Probably unintentionally but it's still a yikes, ya know?
The demons appealing to humanity only to betray them is less expected and more compelling than them being vilified and finding redemption.
i love the lore of them being descendent of those mythical creatures that shouted help to lure in travelers
It's funny because in the manga they kinda imply demons maybe can be redeemed, but it would be such a horrifying task it's better to leave it alone
I absolutely love how Frieren portrays demons, not just because they're a breath of fresh air among all the complex human villains, but also because they teach a valuable lesson about the potential for minds to be extremely dissimilar in their fundamental structure. There is nothing you can say to a demon, no crushing logical argument, no emotional appeal, that could convince them that killing humans is bad. I think more people need to understand that this is a genuine possibility, especially now that AI development is on a rapid course towards creating powerful minds that may be nothing like our own.
they understand logic, and have a very restricted range of emotions like fear, pride and anger. Also, are natural predators of humans, the most part of their language is full of terms and phrases that they don't really understand, save for the effect it has on humans.
As clearly explained in a scene ("I said mother because that word blocks you to kill me") , they are unterstood by them like magical spells that have certain effects on humans, but you don't understand why.
Another thing about the villains in Frieren is that they juxtapose Frieren's main character fault and thats her apathy. It becomes more clear with a future demon but Frieren is on a journey to do what demons fail to do and that is to care about other people. Elves and Demons are very much alike and the story makes many parallels between them.
That is a bold conclusion to put in this and I hope you're right. Frieren has become one of my favorite pieces of media and I'm glad the anime has turned out so good.
Oh hell yeah I was waiting for this one, thank you kindly
Man, I have really been enjoying your singing these last slew of episodes.
Mushishi is a truly unique take on how the elements of fantasy interacts with the world it resides in, I highly recommend it.
When I remember hanging out with my best friends 10 years ago, it is idealized. I rememeber the best parts and I'm sure my brain has filled in some gaps with its own constructions.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing has occurred with Frieren's memories of her party.
for much I love FMA I was actually afraid of living in a time where it was the eternal number one, that would mean anime was dead, I like frieren, I want it completed and fully adapted and surpassed by something even better, long live animated series
The conclusion of this video literally gave me chills. Dude your writing is incredible.
My favoirate thing about Frieren is that the show is so good and wholesome that yhe fans have to take their fanservixe from the weirdest places
Another reason why it's the GOAT
Frieren is cute and based???
I'm gonna watch
the fanservice: head pats and frieren doing gacha with the mimics
What a great video! I really can't put emphasis on how strongly I agree!
The flashbacks were the only critisism that came to my mind on my first watch, and it was so cleverly packaged that I only noticed after the flashback for the Hero's sword, and Frieren explaining that Himmel didn't draw it from the stone. It portrayed something that might be seen as a failure or something to be ashamed of should the pubilc find out, and that was a contrast that showed just how perfect the Hero's party was portrayed in the other flashbacks - after that one it really stood out to me.
The names arent stupid, they are random german words. Fitting to the characters character, of course. But apparently it spoils some plot twists when you understand german :D
In other words, the names are stupid, and even moreso if you speak german.
I disagree, I think the names are kinda silly, because German isn't a foreign language to everyone, and imagine if you were watching a show where the warriors name was "strong", there's an old magic man named "think", and another one named "learn". Those aren't names, they are descriptors.
@@notmyfullname598i mean noun names are pretty common, at least in english. like i wouldn’t care much if the warrior was named “Steel”, the old magic man was named “Wise”, and another one was named “Quill” (that one was a bit of a struggle) you wouldn’t think it’s too weird. i think the idea works just fine, but could maybe use some better execution (or a native german speaker to make sure it doesn’t sound weird)
@@notmyfullname598My name means “field”, apparently. Like “The Plains”. That type of field. Names do mean things even in English. It’s just many of us (at least in the USA) don’t know it or are disconnected from that understanding of names. Most people in the mainstream culture don’t typically intentionally name based on common understood meanings. That is, people aren’t normally trying to. My brother has a much more common name. A common religious name which also has a meaning beyond what people hear in the name in English. The meaning is “He shall add” or “God will add” or “Jehovah increases.”
finally after 7 long years It appears you are getting better with previews
That scene you did was still good and got me😭
I truly do appreciate this video. The last bit about Zoltraak was amazing.
Awesome video as usual
Bro you killed it with the singing! ❤
13:13 is a problem I noticed early on, and while it nags on me, they do handle it with this earnest and wistful way that makes me feel nostalgic for some reason. I can shake it off, but I also do wish too that they'd do more with it.
And since you started with Lairnan, I also agree - there's a lot of potential to contrast Frieran not caring too much about leaving a mark on history, and Lairnan desperately wanting to no matter the method. Definitely could have been a powerful story, and powerful magic fight there.
i feel the EXACT same way and it's so fascinating nearly to the point of frustration. when i was watching, those scenes immediately struck me as something that, in any other story, would've turned me off. but for SOME reason it, it just doesn't. oddly enough, a lot of the time i like those scenes BECAUSE of how on the nose they are. my working theory right now is that with frieren's established conflict being her feelings of regret for not appreciating her time with her friends, it's just kinda sweet to see that wasn't ALWAYS the case and/or maybe it's the promise that her new friends evoking memories of her old party that she didn't appreciate will also push her to take the time to connect with this new one, but i don't think either are the whole picture. this may be the fastest i'll ever rewatch any show ever, because part of me REALLY wants to break down exactly how Frieren works, but the new Frieren impacted side of me just wants to enjoy it for what it was for a little bit. if you or anyone else has a thought, i'd love to hear because god knows I'm gonna be thinking about it for awhile
Personally I'd love to see a demon that doesn't harm humans. Not because it's good, but because it sees humans as more valuable alive than dead due to their creations. Kinda like how a lot of people keep chickens around for their eggs more than the meat.
I think it'd be a very interesting interaction between Frieren and said hypothetical demon.
Im like.
The number one qual stan.
I love the character so much because hes so different from all the other characters that come after him.
There is NO ounce of deception about him.
God, the ending part was so fcking good
bro you can unironically actually sing so well what the fuck
About time you made a video about Frieren bro
Honestly, I’m not too hot on Freiren. I was also absolutely blown away by the first arc or two as well, but when I went and read the manga, it kind of failed to meet my expectations. I kind of feel like it ran out of ideas pretty early on and made some odd mistakes.
The worst offense that the manga has made imo is that it totally undercuts everything interesting in the magic system halfway through. The explanation of the goth girl with the cutting ability’s magic basically confirms that the reason magic takes the form we see it in is LITERALLY just because everyone on the planet except the demons are comically uncreative.
The manga seems to think it is doing something really clever and subversive in that reveal, but it really just ends up demonstrating that a delusional person would be capable of doing any magic they could clearly imagine. (Also, the explanation for why the water mage can’t control water in somebody’s body is really dumb and makes no sense.) I really hate this, because I was also blown away by the Zoltrak plot point, and this reveal totally undercuts the fascinating magic system that was hinted at.
I have a bunch of other nitpicks, too, but this rant is long enough. The short of it is that imo the series gets into a serious slump starting around the death game, and ending a bit before the big arc focusing on the gold demon, straying away from what made it so good and ruining some of the lore. The series still had good moments during that slump, but it TOTALLY failed to meet the expectations I had for it. Though, I’m probably pickier about these things than the average person.
I love the demons in frieren
genuinely, watching frieren as it came out was a highlight of the year
The flashback bit was so perfect lol that could easily have been an actual scene in the show
As someone who's read the manga...the writing of demons does NOT become an issue. Stuff's magnificent.
Also, the Frieren haters in the comments are gonna drive me mad. They literally never raise a good point...
Fuck me, i don't even watch anime (i just enjoy your video essays) but i laughed out loud at the spaghetti dialogue bit. Good video. Good VIDEOS.
I really love the acapella, for some reason it hits in a way I haven't felt in a long time.
Everything's a bit off - the notes, the timing, the Japanese... but the way it's presented, it doesn't really matter. It's not set up to be a beautiful rendition, but it's not set up to be laughably horrible either (or maybe it is, and I'm talking out of my ass).
You don't seem to be protecting your ego behind a layer of irony. It feels like you're secure enough with yourself that you don't care what other people would say about it. You're just having fun with it.
I might just be seeing what I want to see, but I guess that's what I want to see right now.
I just want to say that the demons are not evil, they are wild animals that hunt humans (and other sentient humanoids). Also I understand your nitpicks, but I disagree on all of them.
Cool cover by the way.
THE THEME SONG i just cant that makes me laugh so much every time. i hope if you read this you feel happy because this vid made me happy. :D
One other issue I'd bring up is that for the most part, the world building OTHER THAN the magic system seems a little lackluster. As a story that's supposed to cover a large amount of time passing in a fantasy world, it seems natural to immerse viewers in that world by showing them how things are progressing alongside our characters. Instead, it just kinda feels like nothing is happening in the world at all.
I get that in universe, it's supposed to be a period of peace, but from our perspective, we literally skipped over the part where that peace was earned. It doesn't feel like there deserves to be nothing happening. Even ignoring that though, the grander progression of the world doesn't have to involve antagonistic forces. We could hear about large events that span across several of the towns we visit, see structures or technologies or government systems being built only to have their finished versions become relevant later, or so much more.
I hope this comes into play eventually, we only have 1 season so far after all (One Piece took until after the entirety of East Blue to start its world building), and it just makes too much sense not to include. I'd still consider it a miss that there hasn't been a hint of it yet, because it would help with the main issue other people seem to have with Frieren, the pacing. Having more stuff relevant to the plot happen at each location alongside the character moments should make people feel like more is going on, regardless of how important it actually ends up being.
Thank you for mentioning this. I found the world building to be Frieren's biggest flaw. Rather than a fantasy setting connected to the story and characters, it feels more like a stereotypical RPG setting tacked onto the story.
The best part of Explanation Point is you never know which references will suddenly drop in their video. Loved that Stardew Valley ref on this video!
I think the perfect party thing will be shown in more light in the future as the series goes on
"Would Frieren be better with main villains that are more complex? It's [possible but that story would look so different..."
This was exactly NatalieXHunter's response to your take on Rudeus and Mushoku Tensei.
The spaghetti bit was funny, and I'm glad you went all the way through with it 😂
"Corrupt priest" didn't seem like a problem since I watched the subbed version, but you're quite right with that nitpick. It doesn't roll off the tongue the way a nickname should.
We are actively experiencing the best.
16:00 A perfectly valid observation. But as I think a few others have said. THATS THE POINT! it is a story about someone who has had that "larger than life" perfect hero adventure already.
It’s funny you mention it. Back in public school there were a pair of sisters in my grade named Erin and Erica. I don’t think they were twins or anything, I think they were just born within a year of each other.
I like that whether we enjoyed Frieren or not at the end wasn't really a set of options. Because we did.
Really enjoying your singing of the ops
Season 2 will be even better than Season 1. The upcoming arc is by far one of the best arcs in the series. And it's going to deeply explore the Demons as a species. It's call the Eldarado City Of Gold Arc. And it's absolutely incredible.
I see the Demons as an example of "Pretty Privilege" or the "Halo Effect". A lot of people kill spiders because they look scary even though most are harmless and mutually beneficial to keep around. On the other hand, people try to domesticate Zebras and Hippos. Both are remorseless killers, but they look cute.
All the issues are the "bad" list aren't things I agree with and the Demon one would be a problem if Frieren was a show about Demons vs the world but it's not. That was the story BEFORE the story that Frieren's group went on. Demons are now side characters and this series has shown it doesn't need physical antagonists for an arc, it can be more existential and loose than a beat em up battle shounen tends to be.
I've only given one show a 10/10 before Frieren and that was March Comes in like a Lion for very similar reasons to Frieren. They both have nunace and subtext beyond a story of good and evil or right and wrong and delve into that from so many angles and unique ways. Not every story needs to be like this, but I always appreciate when it does since it feels less like a weiter following the dos and don'ts of writing and more like a research paper on whatever the author wants to talk about showcased through hypotheticals.
How to I go vote for Undead Unluck on Patreon? I don't see any polls on there
i have some serious respect for you song covers
I find the deamon lore fascinating, one of the better parts of the show I think, because there is a lot to explore about them, their psychology etc.
18:00 dude that got me weirdly emotional for some reason
Great vid!
Any chance you have the song from Solo Leveling available? I really enjoy your a capella covers!
Fine, I'll watch the damn elf show
You got some nice pipes, buddy
Tbh I think the wide ranging praise stems from the fact that it's solid all the way through and has broad, inoffensive appeal.
I don't think it's on par with actual masterpiece manga like Nausicaa, Blame, Berserk, Freesia, or the ending of Usagi Drop.
3:47
To be fair to to Stark, how would Fern know? I mean I doubt she has ever seen a pp in her life up until that point so how would she know? I doubt she ever saw a pp when her parents were alive and I highly doubt she ever saw a pp while living with the Priest. Not to mention she didn't have the ability to see through clothing until after she met Stark and saw his pp while he wasn't in any particular energetic mood. She called it small but as far as I know she's never seen a pp up until that point, which says to me that she has no idea what she's talking about when she said that. I guess all I'm saying is that the only real reason people seem to think he has a small pp is because of what fern said, however as I already mentioned before: Fern is an unreliable source because of the reasons mention above.
You know, that's a really good point! I'll send Stark and his ambiguously sized penis an apology.
@@ExplanationPointAnime I'm sure they'll both appreciate that.
Now I'm going to have to eat all my pasta noodles by themselves. Thanks.
In case anyone is curious almost if not every single plot and character choice the writer of Frieren makes is largely dictated by two kinds of Japanese themes: cycle of life and death (Samsara) themes and self identity themes. From Fern and Frieren's conversation about why Fern chose magic to Frieren explaining her favorite spell, that's self identity themes. Almost everything Himmel ever says in every single flashback is cycle of life and death themes. I'll eventually make some videos explaining the themes in general as they're some of the most prolific ones in anime for several decades now.
"There are no boobs" I can think of two large contradictions to that statement
the demons arent simple though, the canon already contradicts everything said about them. they clearly do have motivations and desires and feelings. it's claimed that they don't, but they don't act as beings untethered from anything. they get upset when their comrades die and they enjoy things even when there's no humans around to deceive.
they're said to have no emotions and yet they do things. why would you ever want to do anything if you had no emotions?
what's the need for them to be haughty or arrogant if they don't feel and it doesn't provoke a desirable response? why would they want to manipulate people if it does nothing for them? why if they only speak to manipulate people and have no feelings to each other, do they speak to each other? there's dialogue between them which very clearly has no strategic purpose and is for the sake of their bonds as fellow demons, they don't actually act anything like what's said about them
theyre frankly vindicated by the story every time in that being manipulative and murderous is frankly what they should be doing as the people they interact with have absolutely zero interest in having even a strategic understanding of how they work and comfort themselves with blatant falsities about what demons are
With regards to your point about the stilted dialogue, I do agree that it comes across that way. But I also feel that at least when it comes to Frieren herself it's part of her charm. She's a socially awkward person who has a hard time communicating and I find it charming that she isn't the best with words, and how that's rubbed off on Fern a bit. It is weird when it comes to the other characters though who seem like they're meant to be more "normal" and outgoing. Maybe it's just because I have autism, but I find Frieren relatable in that way.
What was that third anime you described at the beginning that sounded crazy
That dude was there to make Fern matter more.
What do you mean there are no boobs, Stark is standing right there!
Lernen is a lot better as a character upon thorough analysis.
If you're just looking at the surface level of Frieren, it might be easy to ignore that the golems in the bottles of the second test are specifically Lernen's golems and an experimental spell that Sense asked for use of for her exam. A fact which tells you that he is not only passively creating new spells (which will itself be an everlasting legacy for people like Frieren) but that his contributions, even the ones that probably seem to him like lukewarm obligations, are seriously saving people's lives and improving the world.
Lernen has already left his mark upon history, and it's already far from insignificant. As Wirbel says with his backstory in the final episode, any good deed will leave a positive influence that can change the world, and throughout his lifetime, Lernen has surely done plenty of good deeds in making the world safer for everyone, despite how he never killed any top tier demons or ventured in a hero's party.
But Lernen, corrupted by Serie's way of thinking, cant see it that way. The whole protagonist-like ideal of leaving your mark on history by killing god is fundamentally wrong, silly, misguided and based in principals that are equally so, and Lernen's story is trying to say that, and thus to put a final nail in the coffin of Serie's toxic stupid conception of how the world works and what's important within it.
gosh i would LOVE to see you cover Mushishi