Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
The Problem With Problematic Media - You (Probably) Aren't a Bad Person
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 апр 2024
- PATREON: / explanationpoint
CONSUME GAMER SUPPS WHILE HELPING THE CHANNEL: gamersupps.gg/...
Stumbling across a piece of problematic media that you happen to enjoy is something that happens to everyone at some point. What do you do about it? Let's find out.
Thanks for the video! Also, quick correction at 15:50 maybe, or maybe just a mistake: It was the director of MMO Junkie, Kazuyoshi Yaginuma, who made all the anti-Semitic tweets. The author of the original manga, Rin Kokuyo, I couldn't find much on her but I don't think she's ever expressed similar views.
Yeah, I was about to say, Yaginuma is the one who is an actual neo-Nazi. He also seems to have gotten himself blackballed from the industry for being one, which… guy's a really talented director and it's a fucking bummer that he's like that, but it's probably a good sign as to where most people in the industry are at that nobody wants to talk to him anymore.
Thanks for the correction!
My (very serious) mistake. Pinned, if you don't mind.
That gets into important territory. Lots of people will work on something like an anime, so how many of them need to be dirt bags before you can confidently say you want no part of it? Just one person? What about all the other people who were involved? Does it make sense for everyone to suffer because there is a jerk in their midst? Should they all quit their job, their livelihood, in protest of their boss? Shall they starve for the sake of a moral victory? Should they suffer for _not_ making that decision? Sure, financially supporting the series might, in some way, financially benefit one dirt bag, but it would also mean that you _aren't_ supporting a bunch of people who have done nothing wrong. Should they suffer because a dumbass co-worker said some dumbass things?
For something like Harry Potter its a bit more clear cut, because while there were definitely other people involved in its creation, Rowling definitely gets the biggest cut and had the most to do with its creation. In the realm of anime, however, the director (while still an important role) is not _the_ most important role. While they have a lot of power, enough that it isn't easy to confront them, they certainly can't make the anime alone. If it had been the lead animator who said such things, would people have such a vitriolic response?
In a way, it just feels like people are exalting the director above all others by giving far more weight to his dumbass opinions then anyone else.
@@SilverDragonJayIt's something that was in my mind when I got Dragon Quest XI. I've heard about the truly horrendous things Sugiyama said, and I obviously don't want to endorse them.
But he's just one person that worked in the game, no matter how significant he is (well, was now).
Gushing Over Magical Girls makes me constantly ask the question: Authors Fetish or Legitimate Worldbuilding
Why not both?
@@GurrenPrimeIt's clearly both.
And I love it
It's that one weird anime with middle school girl fetishizing where I have to admit that aging the characters up WOULD detract from the point of the story and it's deeper themes
So well done Japan, in this case the Paedophilia truly is integral to the plot
@@Eliagiulio Really?
Not doubting your own perspective I'm just so used to that being more of an excuse.
I haven't watch it admitedly, never been that much of a big fan of ecchi myself and the whole thing of the characters looking like highschoolers made my nearly 30 year old ass say "Nope.... not for me."
I do would like to see a show where the characters were without a doubt adults and experiment with stuff around kink tho....
@@Eliagiulio The thing is, sexual exploration doesn't really just happen in middle school. That's probably the age where people first realize that sex exists in their body, but self-discovery and sexual exploration especially involving other people happens mostly After that point. Like in college when you're of legal age, away from other authorities and can just fuck around figuratively and literally. Everyone's parents have to basically disappear from the plot at all times for the plot to happen which is very hand-wavey because they're not financially independent yet
The realization that men do not exist in the gushing setting was one of the greatest media moments I've ever had. I hate, hate, HATE how good it is
Same here, dude. There weren't even any in the crowd during Loco's performance.
Wait, holy shit you're right? Do people just riproduce asexually? Or is it the power of Yuri?
Men, no. Young boys, yes.
@@schorltourmaline4521 Oh shit. Well, I don't think that kind of stuff might happen...right? The author doesn't have the balls. But if they do, I will return here.
@@schorltourmaline4521 lol no there are literally no males in GOMG, young or old. this is the case in the manga as well
"I am troubled by the word “problematic,” mostly because of how fundamentally undescriptive it is. Tell me that something is xenophobic, condescending, clichéd, unspeakably stupid, or some other constellation of descriptors. Then I will decide whether I agree, based on the intersection of that thing with my particular set of values and aesthetics. But by saying it is problematic you are saying that it constitutes or presents a problem, to which my first instinct is to reply: I hope so." - Jen Silverman, Swimming in It: Art and (Im)Morality
(Please go read this article its fucking fantastic)
Im reading the article from your suggestion and holy shit you’re so right this is a must read!
The line “But if we expect every novel, play, film, etc. to be a PSA for Good Behavior, we lose access to the part of art that is most connected to our humanity.” Sent me reeling for a minute, because I truly do feel that good art disturbs the comfortable and comforts the disturbed.
That's a fair point, however i saw the indescriptiveness as shorthand for potentially ANY of those things, not diluting those specificities.
@@paaperman I suppose the issue is that people dont use to it as short hand for anything. I rarely if ever see people use the term as a lead in to any further nuanced discussion. It's seems to more often be used as an (attempted) immediate shut down
@@demodee3690 you right. it is normally used like that.... it may be here too, i didnt read it that way though.
@@paaperman oh if you mean used like that in the video i agree i don't think it was used in that way, i just really like the quote and thought it would be relevant and interesting to some people lol
the cake metaphor is perfect for this - youre an adult, you are capable of making your own choices but the problem comes from making the cake accessable to those who can be easily hurt by it.
And that is exactly why there are nutritional facts, lists of ingredients, and allergy warnings on food. Content warnings and sites like "does the dog die" are the same for media.
Dang it, I just remembered that I was going to mention that explicitly in the video, but I forgot to put it in the script. Oh well.
Another cake metaphor that could be added is even if more than half a cake is filled with peanut butter and sprouts, you can still point to parts of the cake that doesn’t have peanut butter or sprout and judge those parts separate from the whole
(Like how the writing, animation, or world building can be enjoyed even if the core of an anime is unsavoury)
@@typemasters2871 And depending on how severe the allergies are, it could still be to where a person can't eat the cake! Some people may just get a stomachache, some may die. Everyone's body, tastes, and experiences are different.
I didn't understand one thing: why do you think that being an adult (passing the age of eighteen) is equal to having the ability to make 100% correct decisions, and having control over all aspects of life, personality and psychology, especially neutralizing the injuries of such things ? The fact that you don't want to hurt someone else is a moral thing, but if you hurt yourself and you see it as okay (and enjoy it), how is it moral? How do you avoid that this kind of media slowly brainwashes you and you find different tastes and interests to consider some disgusting immoral standards as "OK"?
It's not about others, it's about "you"
You are the others
as a long time anime fan with both horrendous moral scrupulosity/harm ocd and a love for media analysis, this video is really comforting. more people need to hear the message this video concludes with
I'm in a similar boat here
Same! It's nice to be reminded that there are simple, reasonable courtesies you can practice in order to protect the people around you
Same, every time i fall in love with a show i start worrying im doing something bad and will have to drop it
As someone with moral scrup and POCD, this video made me so happy. I was always so scared that I would be a horrible person or pedo for the characters or ships I liked or used to cope with my traumas. It actually took exposure therapy to horribly inmoral characters (in this case Hisoka), to confront and get over this fear. I think that rather than arguing whether fiction affects reality (which is 100% true), we should push back that fiction (in most cases) doesn’t affect morality.
Oh my god, I’m so glad I’m not alone in this
The last time I watched anything by you was your SAO Abridged videos and you jokingly lamented about "being alone while drinking booze in your apartment in Belgium" or something along those lines (hilarious bit lmao)... and now you're MARRIED? Congrats honestly, but this was the most shocking point of the video haha
Thank you! The me who was drinking alone in my apartment in Belgium never would've thought he'd be getting married a little less than ten years later! Thanks for the well-wishes
Was thinking the same thing! Congrats, @ExplanationPointAnime , I hope you live your happiest life now.
@@ExplanationPointAnime I like that she's a comma, congrats! (or is she an apostrophe!!!?!!)
@ExplanationPointAnime oh god it's been almost a decade since that video came out, fuck I feel old lmao
So basically, it's ok to like problematic media as long as you are willing to put in the critical thinking and media analysis work to recognize the problematic elements of it in order to consume it without internalizing those elements. And as long as you don't irresponsibly share the media with others who might lack the ability or willingness to do the same.
Pretty much. In fact I wish more people would actually watch meeting with more critical analysis.
basically media literacy is good and being media illiterate is bad
.
@@dvillines26 Correct.
I am going to send pirated inks of Gushing Over Magical Girls to everyone who listens.
Fetish porn creators are just lightyears ahead of everyone else on this; we already had this fight and solved it forever ago. TAGS. Put tags on things! Encourage websites to allow tag filtering and tag blocking! As soon as the individual is able to curate their own experience according to their preferences and dislikes, all of this endless moral equivocation becomes unnecessary.
seriously, tags are one of the most ridiculously effective and multipurpose tool that i've seen on the internet, and they're damn easy to code too, it's literally just a few semi-public configurable lists. the fact that the best high-profile use of the tool i've seen is the funny e6 porn site is kinda sad.
_"As soon as the individual is able to curate their own experience according to their preferences and dislikes, all of this endless moral equivocation becomes unnecessary."_
A lot of people will just respond with: "We're enabling people to make healthy choices by removing harmful ones."
@@ElliotKeaton A world where harmful options don’t exist could reasonably be described as a dystopia. The entire point of life is to make choices, make mistakes, and learn from those mistakes. Our society has done a good job of sanding off the harshest consequences of making mistakes (death, traumatic injury etc), but trying to remove anything that could possibly have any negative consequences is a straight path to locking the entire human population in padded rooms.
And normalize opt-in tagging, not opt-out blocking. If people don't tag their shit correctly, actually fucking enforce it.
@@shingshongshamalama Nah you need opt-out to be the default or else no one ever sees anything that expands their tastes or worldview. It's not like you're forced to read/watch everything that shows up in your search results. If you didn't opt-out of "sci-fi" for example, and you're not currently in the mood for sci-fi, you can just choose not to read the things tagged "sci-fi", but if you have to opt-in to tags and you didn't opt-in to sci-fi, then you'll never be recommended anything sci-fi, even when you might actually like them. Opt-in tagging depends on people already having a perfect understanding of what they like, but they don't.
Gushing over magical girls might be legit the very first fanservice heavy anime i ever watched, where i was unironically more entertained by the character writing and story instead of the intended main appeal of those shows lmao
You could legitimately take every bit of fan service off the show and it would still be good
Agreed i tell people that i got tricked into reading hentai and im not upset about it
u watched Monogatari
Have you watched Monogatari?
Monster Musume was mine and damn if I didn't love it to bits.
I was in the BDSM community. The show isn't just depicting it, Gushing over Magical Girls is truly resonating with the emotions people feel of when then get into BDSM.
Why would somebody want to be blindfolded? Why would they want to be powerless? Why would they want be hurt? The show portrays this perfectly. The blindfold scene blew me away. If you were going to make high art about that sensation specifically, then that scene would have been it.
Even if you're not into "capital K" Kink, I think people can still resonate with those emotions. The same way you don't have to be into martial arts to resonate with an anime protagonist pushing past his boundaries. Because honestly, that's a major part of what genuine BDSM is about. Pushing past personal boundaries.
Honestly, I'm only on episode 3, but I immediately got what the show was about.
Interesting.
Yep. Around episode 3 was when my group started thinking this show might actually be good. And around episode 5 or 6 was when we started side-eyeing it again and thinking it might actually have just been a fluke that the first three episodes were thoughtful and interesting. And around episode 7 is when we stopped thinking that and reluctantly admitted that this show had chops and knew exactly what it was doing.
@@ExplanationPointAnime LOL "Is this a fluke?" is something I am CONSTANTLY asking about some animes. I want to think that it's because Japanese storytelling has always been closely tied to deeper meanings and layered metaphors. But I also wonder if it's just the anime industry forcing good creators to cram their stories into formulaic molds.
@@VagabondTEit's the second one
I went to watch that scene because of this comment...and I have to admit, I don't get why it was so impactful. I assume it's because of something about the scene I didn't understand, so if possible could you elaborate?
This video can be summed up to simply "It's okay to have guilty pleasures, but don't assume others will share in your enjoyment of said guilty pleasure."
And also to think critically of and around the media you consume
Bingo
There's a reason they're known as "guilty" pleasures.
And also don’t show it to children so much that they grow up thinking it’s normal
@@TumblinWeeds Too late for that, pretty sure every 5 year old gets GTAV as a birthday gift nowadays.
I'm just a few seconds in
And the fact that anyone could hate Marcelle fills me with violent rage. I might move a table or eat your pudding or something.
90% of Dunmeshi readers and viewers really think they wouldn't react just like her to Laios lmao
@@PurplesttCoffee I wouldn't, but then again, I'm not neurotypical enough to find anything weird with his behavior.
@@tatoulino515 I would *listen* to Laios talking about monster behavior, anatomy, and their cooking process for hours... But the second the guy tried to give me FIsh People to eat I'd scream
Fight. Me.
I think that starting by disliking her, and ending with her being your favorite is pretty much the expected trajectory (at least in the manga, my view of her shifted during the run. Haven't seen the anime yet)
The nicest people I've met online make some of the most bizarre, messed up pornography, and the worst, aggravating, taxing, awful people I've met also often hate porn.
Yeah, it's never shocking when we find out that the people constantly rallying against pornography are awful people.
oh I generally assume the worst about people that are very vocally against all porn. if they say it makes them uncomfortable, that's one thing, but if they get censorious and judgmental, I put them in the Church Lady category, and I rank Church Ladies very low in terms of types of humans.
Reminds me of how people perceive rock and metal, especially as it gets heavier, compared to the actual fans and signers in general.
The secret is that those worst people you meet don't actually hate porn, and their ranting is all about control. They are likely to consume just as much porn and what they consume is just as likely to be as bad if not worse then the people who are open about how kinky their preferences are. More often then not, what they demand never seems to apply to them personally, I mean given how many pastors have been metaphorically caught in public bathrooms looking for a little rough. What they want is power over others pure and simple.
It's only Confirmation Bias when They do it, remember.
There is a Chickn Nugget short that addresses this very issue.
The orange fox Milkshake asks her blue fox friend Slushi if she is a bad person for liking a show about a squirrel falling in love with a cannibal, to which Slushi asks in turn:
"Are you imitating or endorsing the activities of the villainous characters in the show?"
"No?"
"Then no. *turning to viewer* NO."
Pretty much yeah. No deeper debate needs to be had really.
This falls down when you compare people's stated intentions, and percieved self image, to their actual biases and actions. We would all say that we Consume Carefully, and have distance between what we watch and what we do; but there is an endless chain of people having "awakenings" or "revelations" that come from media consumption, or creating conditioned responses in themselves and others, or being pipelined and recruited using media.
So it's not enough to say you're "not endorsing" problematic content. You have to actively and specificially oppose it, or risk it seeping into your self.
I think something that makes Gushing Over Magical Girls different is that it is how the settings suspends reality. It is not set in our world but with magical girls. It is set in a world where magical girls have managers. Where the "fight" between good and evil is mostly performative. Where are bad guy doesn't use mind control magic but social media. "Join the side of evil" is given the same social power in this world as "lie to the unpopular girl" does in a 90's rom com. This is also a world with no men. Not even in the background. Not even young boys. This is also a setting where the magical girls allow these things to happen because busting out the big gloves of punching is bad for the brand. From jump it is driven home that the stakes in this setting are wildly different from the ones we know.
It is a nakedly indulgent exploration of fetishes from the perspective of characters discovering their relationship to these fetishes. It is blatantly pornographic and focused on titillation. It is easier to enjoy because it is not slipping these things into a story where we are expecting someone's mental health to be in danger. The emotional consequence of sexual assault in this "grrr I'm embarrassed" That isn't the world we live in but it is the world the show is set in. No one is freaked out by these super powered fights in the show. They watch them like entertainment in the show. That makes all of this easier to enjoy because they just shamelessly made a porn universe where the pain from our world doesn't exist. Mushoku Tenshi wants us to think about trauma. It has a universe like ours where the result of sexual assault mirrors the damage and pain of our world. So it's harder to let it slide.
I really like that comparison to Mushoku Tensei. I wasn't thinking so much about the setting of GoMG while I was watching it, but you're right that it does have a huge impact on the tone of the show. What do you think of the scene where Lord Enorme beats Loco for failing in her mission, then? That's the scene that made my group go silent and realize that this show actually had chops and wasn't just trying to be a fun, pointless hentai. It was brutal in a way that nothing else in the show really is, and unlike a lot of the more questionable scenes, it's very clearly not meant to be sexy. Personally, I thought it added a lot of necessary emotional depth to the whole thing, but I'm curious if you feel like it's out of place, given what you said about there being no consequences for sexual assault in the show.
@@ExplanationPointAnime I think it can always be a bit odd when porn brings in plot. Kind of like if Burger King came out with a really kick ass dry aged stake. I mean, its still really good but I was not expecting that from Burger King.
In regards to the scene I think it isn't to off base. The show is about exploring kink. This is the true Villain reveal. Most shows do that with a Villain killing a lesser villain from the first act. In this show defeat means having a SA done at you. So you are right it does give the emotional depth one would expect at that point in the story but it does it in the GoMG way. So odd yes but out of place no.
In my mind, jobless is a better story because it wants you to think about the trauma, it uses the subject matter to show you just how awful a person the people pwrforming the actions are, rudeus is downright a horrible person, and that's the point, he's as horrible as you can really get, and this is his recovery to being at the very least, less horrible.
While I feel this way about the story in analysis, the brain isn't so rational usually, and it makes perfect sense that it wouldn't click as reprehensible to be watching it if you aren't registering entirely how bad it is until after you're done, if there's the right dampeners to keep you from thinking too deep about it
6:13, you can enjoy garbage, even if it's the worst crap ever.
It’s when even the garbage is too putrid for you is when it stops.
It’s ok to like some things (like those dumb b-movies), it’s when they do something that makes you upset is when I think it’s bad.
Everyone gets one bad anime, tv show, video game, book, etc they can enjoy. My guilty pleasure game is Fallout 4 for example.
Okay but like what if it is literally just child prawn? Like not even a "wink wink nudge nudge" kind, but just illegal kind?
@@seventeenseventythirteen7465Honestly, if you happen to see some posted on some site and not taken down yet, I would honestly say it’s okay. It’s absolutely, definitely something you’d want to address with yourself afterwards if you genuinely enjoyed it, but just liking it wouldn’t on its own make you a bad person. It would however make you a bad person if you tried to go any further with that, even just actively looking for more, because the moment you go past “happened across something and enjoyed it” is the moment you start supporting its production, which is unacceptable.
Mushoku Tenshi, Made in Abyss and Gushing Over Magical Girls are two shows that fall in the most annoying category of shows. "Great Shows I Cannot Recommend to Others." I adore these shows but they all just have some aspect of them that makes it impossible for me to ask other people to watch them and if someone has watched them and told me they cannot get past X I just have to be like "yeah, fair."
Also Gushing being on the cover of HiDive is fucking crazy, who the fuck allowed that, lmao.
I couldn't bring myself to watch more than episode 1 of Mushoku Tensei because of rudy. Do you ignore these parts of the show or better question why do you like it?
@@uziel1447 Rudy is one of the best written characters I have ever seen in fiction.
@@uziel1447 To be frank, I am so numb to the kind of weird sexual shit in anime that I don't even bat an eye at it. I think Rudy, and most of the cast of the show, are incredible characters because the author allows them to be shit sometimes and amazing other times because it feels more human, and it makes Rudy's growth through the series feel more genuine. Now given the choice to go through an ED arc where he gropes random women to see if he can get it up, or something else, I'd prefer something else, but it doesn't detract from the show in my experience.
I actually love the second season of Made in Abyss even more than the first. Do you know how lonely that is when you're hanging around people who *don't* have that specific species of brainworms? I'm truly blessed that my closest friends are either as unhinged as I am or are comfortable enough with that level of derangement to permit me my peccadilloes.
Is Made in Abyss that bad? I always thought it’s only the manga (parts the anime hasn’t covered yet) or the author that most people have issue with it. The only weird scenes I can remember from S1 is were Riko gets punished by being tied in ropes (possibly nude as well?), but you only see it for a split second. There’s also the tongue toilet bidet too in S2 I guess lol. I think it’s easier to recommend MiA over MT as a fan of both in my opinion.
one thing many often forget is that not every media is for everyone.
Like my favorite Dev says: "A game for everyone is a game for no one."
One small disagreement is when you mention that "no shameless ecchi has been in the limelight like MahouAko is now." I can point to Monster Musume and especially Interspecies Reviewers alone as two shows that made even bigger waves in their respective times.
Interspecies Reviewers is so interesting. I never thought about how other fantasy species engage in intercourse or what their biology could bring to the table in terms of the sex scene. What would these other species be into? well here's an idea! It's just really interesting ngl
As someone who's been enjoying the Gushing over Magical Girls (still can't say I like that title) manga for a few years now, this hits the nail on the head. What started out as "I had a bad day and want to read a bad ecchi manga" turned into a weirdly engrossing series that I've been more excited to read the newest chapter of than most actually "good" manga. I had similar hangups about enjoying it (dubiously aged, no consent, just straight up porn, I'm not even into BDSM/exhibitionism and not particularly into yuri) but something about the underlying plot, good comedy, Azul's character _development,_ the Loco/Leber relationship, Enormeeta in general etc etc kept me coming back. It's weird and made me question some things, but I'm happy it's still going. Keeping Korisu out of any level of sexualization really helps the conscience, though.
from a forum comment a long time ago about Keijo!!! : "once you get past the shock value and titillation, it's still a character driven story with an all-female cast".
I feel like the more direct translation of the manga's title, I Adore Magical Girls, But…, avoids being too on the nose and gets across Utena's whole deal pretty well.
I have a slightly different take: Media cannot, by itself, cause harm (outside of the Porygon stuff, naturally), only people can.
Let's say that you are watching a show that says you should kill your neighbor. You go out and kill your neighbor. Who should be blamed for your neighbor's death? Any answer that doesn't pin 99% of the blame squarely on you, as the person who went and killed your neighbor, is incorrect. It's not like you have a Manchurian Agent style code-phrase, and will start subjugating the proletariat if someone makes a racist anime. You, as a person, have agency and can decide what you do.
However, there is one instance where I will agree that media can cause some form of harm, and that is mainly to do with factual inaccuracies. For example, look at how driving is often depicted on TV and movies. You constantly see drivers pulling insane stunts, or simple driving incredibly recklessly, because it makes a good action scene. If I were to try to replicate those stunts, they would almost assuredly not work out in any way. However, I feel that is not as bad as it seems, as anyone who is in a position to do such an activity should also be able to tell the difference between reality and fiction. And, if they still attempt to do such a thing, they should do it in a scenario where the worst case outcome is manageable. You always practice knife tricks with a plastic blade before a real blade, that sort of thing.
Also, I think it is a good idea to delve into why, exactly, you think that a specific show is "problematic", and how it could be changed to no long be problematic. For GOMG, as an example, would the show be "fine" if the girls were in college? Would it be "fine" the Tres Magia were more evil? Would it be "fine" if the actual sadism was toned down a bit, and if so how far? Basically, where is the line between "this show is harmful" and "this show is no longer harmful"?
As for individuals being harmed by pieces of media, I want to relay an interesting content warning from a.... game I played a while ago: "You as a viewer have a safeword, and that safeword is 'alt + f4' and you can use it at any time". Unlike real life, when you are consuming media you always have a "rip cord" you can pull and immediately leave the situation. There have been a few times where I was particularly sensitive to certain topics, and it took me a while to realise I could just... not watch/read/play/whatever was causing me distress. If something reminded me of a past trauma, I could stop watching the show. I didn't "owe" it to anyone to finish the show, or keep playing the game, or reading the book, or whatever.
What a well-reasoned and nuanced take. I do a lot of work in both kink education and with young queer adults, and find myself having oddly similar conversations in those spaces about what people feel good or bad about enjoying or identifying with, why that is, and what they feel it says about them. I've settled on the stance that thought crimes aren't real, and things you like or enjoy don't necessarily say anything about you as a person. Morality and ethics are inherently linked to social interactions anyway, not individual joys, regardless of how odd those joys might be. Watch things wisely. Well said.
Then you would probably get a lot of value out of Gushing Over Magical Girls, if you haven't seen it already! It's all about queer young adults developing kinks and having complicated feelings about it.
@@ExplanationPointAnime You know what, sure, you've sold me on it. I'm willing to bet I'm going to have a lot of discomfort watching it, based on what you've said about it in the video, but I imagine I'll still find a fair bit to relate to or consider in it with all that in mind. At the very least you've piqued my curiosity enough to give it an honest chance. Thanks I think? haha
You're welcome, I think! It's uncomfy as fuck, for sure, and I'm not going to say it's the most *graceful* exploration of young people having complicated feelings about their kinks I've ever seen in anime (that's probably O Maidens in Your Savage Season), but it's definitely not the worst, either. It definitely has something to say and isn't just saying "I'm talking about sex" as an excuse to throw a bunch of porn on screen. . . but damned if it doesn't throw a bunch of porn on screen, and damned if it isn't just a little bit excessive. The good news is that, all of the porny bits aside, it's a very deftly-written comedy show with incredibly charming characters. A hand-waved, thrown-away visual gag involving a robot waiter had our entire couch *erupting* in laughter.
Consuming transgressive media is itself a fetish activity and closing the browser tab is your safe word.
As a young queer adult in the kink scene I can unironically say that this is probably one of the most accurate representations of kink in any media
Showing Love-Chuu season 2 when you said unnecessary SENT me 😭
Also I'm not calling it X.
I'll never get over seeing Netflix start automatically playing the next episode after that show definitively ended and was clearly over and there could not possibly be more.
the worst part of love-chuu season to isn't even that its unnecessary. Its that its boring. Like they couldnt do anything with a new set up?
One thing I've personally noticed with problematic media is framing. How are you framing the problematic element you are showing. Are you framing it as the bad thing that it is or are you using it for shock value and not caring about the deeper implications? Your example of Goblin Slayer vs Psycho Pass hits that perfectly and I think your point of "buying/earning" the problematic element ties into my idea on framing.
You have to not only earn/buy it, but you have to frame it properly so the audience knows you are not endorsing this thing. I think it's why a lot of anime can get away with having certain characters allude to (or in cases like Drifters just straight up be) Hitler, because those series keep the framing of "this was a horrible person who did horrible shit". Drifters' example was used to emphasize that the Drifters are not "good guys" just the ones with free will, and gives us a world that was re-shaped by the misuse of said free will. It also helps the audience use it as a sort of line for our main characters so we can quietly judge if/when they're going "too far".
But then, comedies have a weird place here.
Take Zetsubou Sensei, who start with the hero attempting to "get taller", and treating as a joke. I watched it when I was seriously deep in depression, and that thought wasn't totally out of my mind.
Yet seeing all those serious issues treated as jokes was... quite cathartic. I still love the show to death, and it's just hilarious, even if it treats this like a farce.
I'm still not exactly sure why it works so well (at least on me). My main guess would be that at a point where life sounded absurd, having that absurdity pointed out and laughed at had some impact. I don't know
If you need a media to hold your hand and tell you in such blatant terms, "we do not approve of [X]!" then you do not need to be consuming fictional media! Hope this helps! 😊
Framing portrays author's intent, and the author's commentary on the world through their mind's eye to a degree... and its assuming that someone endorses or allows certain distasteful things which creates the viewer's disgust.
They should have the word "BAD" flash up in big red text when something/someone bad is on screen and then a big green "GOOD" flashing when something/someone good is on screen. That would make it easy for everybody to know when to clap or boo and nobody would have to have complicated thoughts ever again.
@@sicksock435446subtexts exists dude.🤦♀️
This was… refreshing, honestly, and quite similar to my own take on this very question. I enjoy a great deal of potentially troubling and occasionally outright transgressive media, more often than not because such works tend to aspects of the human experience which tend not to be explored in more mainstream works because they're not particularly universal or incredibly sensitive or prod at various cultural taboos, and I dunno, as a freak who's been through some stuff, that weirder, gnarlier stuff tends to speak to me. Gushing Over Magical Girls has a surprisingly strong grasp on what it feels like to realise as a teenager that you are into things that no adult in your life is going to explain to you because acknowledging the existence of such feelings even among adults feels like crossing a line and struggling past that confusion and shame and fear of yourself and what you might be capable of towards excitement and acceptance. And that's really cool! I think that this show could be really good for some people! But at the same time, am I going to recommend it to somebody if I'm not *really* familiar with them and what they're comfortable with and what their limits might be? *God, no.* And that's true of a lot of art that I love. Stuff like societal trends and advertising are way out of my hands, but I can at least be real with people about whether or not something might be too much for someone and not judge them if it is, or for that matter if it isn't.
This resonates with me.
Honestly I'm glad I found out about the series here, with people leaving casual warnings and spoilers around. Now I can go and look it up knowing what I'm up against, instead of casually bumping into it and being shocked.
Pretty much summed up why I liked the show.
I don't believe ANY form of media has ANY moral obligation to be PC or ethical or morally correct UNLESS it is directly being made for children. Other than that, you can make a story of humanity at it's worse and have horrible, evil characters, but if the writing is good, I'll enjoy it. To me, the #1 purpose of stories is to be entertaining or enthralling. Some teach something, but not all need to. In the end, everyone is in charge of their own lives and if they can be so easily changed by words on a page or pictures on a screen, that says more about them than the work itself.
I wouldn't use the term "PC" since it's something of a conservative dogwhistle, but yeah, I mostly agree. I think it's pretty silly to try to police what creators can make based on the idea that it might someday stumble into the hands of someone who doesn't want to see it. It's more or less the responsibility of individuals to police their own media diets. But like I said in the video, I think distributors (like Crunchyroll and Netflix) also have a responsibility not to misconstrue the kind of content they have on their services and to make sure viewers are able to make informed choices to watch shows with mature (or, in the case of Gushing over Magical Girls, incredibly immature) content.
@@ExplanationPointAnime Yeah, PC was just a catch all I used, also note the quotes.
Genuine question, What is "PC" a dogwhislte for?
@@williamdyer5086 Nothing specific
@@upg5147 I don't understand your answer, but I appreciate your replying.
It's yet another time when I see a new upload from you and think, 'It had better not be what I think it is,' only to be met with a surprisingly sane, well-thought-out, and balanced analysis. My respect for you only continues to grow.
Something I wanted to add about Gushing Over Magical Girls that you kind of touched on with how the point of the show could be about enjoying things that you aren't supposed to; was my experience with watching it. I don't remember why I watched the first episode (probably feeing horny or some shit), but I remember during the first episode I was pleasantly surprised with how Utena's character was being depicted. I didn't expect her to be conflicted with the actions she committed and the feelings that transpired from it. I expected her to be like a crazy dominatirx, because that would appeal more to the men that I expected the target audience to be. But watching Utena feel conflicted reminded me a bit of how I struggled to come to terms with the idea that I had sexual urges and desires (I was raised very conservative). I felt like as a woman I could relate to that feeling of being conflicted; of enjoying sex or kinks that society would deem inappropriate for me (I'm sure men and other people can relate to this too). That was ultimately what made me continue to watch the show. I have yet to finish it, and I'm not sure if I will, but it did leave a surprising thought process in my head.
Love your videos king, keep it up!
I'm so happy to hear that you had a positive experience with the show. That's something that struck me as I was watching it, too. How it seemed to be celebrating sexuality without ignoring all the complicated things that go along with realizing you're a little ~deviant~. I don't think it's perfectly justified in all the things it does, but it has heart, and it's clearly trying to say something important. I'm glad to hear that the people who are watching it are mostly coming away from it feeling happy and seen. If you decide to watch more, I don't think you'll regret it, especially once you get to Magia Azure's arc. But just so you know, it *does* consistently escalate. . . everything. So be ready for that.
Why you a ent supposed to enjoy it?
Ngl I found myself really frustrated with how people will get all twisted about certain themes in media just for being there and then sorta essentially harass fans and creators over their artistic choices. Like for the horror rpg The Coffin of Andy and Leyley I’ve been peeved that people will immediately just jump towards the one “problematic” aspect of it. I’m like yeah there’s the incest angle but are you really going to gloss over the murder, cannibalism, and demon sacrifice going on?? Like compared to all the other crimes that’s small potatoes and it’s just a detail to show just how screwed up the main characters are and how toxic they are for each other. It’s not hard to block something you dislike because you don’t want to engage like it’s literally encouraged. Don’t like? Don’t read. Block and move on. Why go out of your way to make it everyone else’s problem for discussing the game?
We should be able to engage with touchy themes to discuss and talk about that but a proper discussion becomes near impossible when someone isn’t willing to even engage with the material. Like okay yeah there’s an incest going on, what else do you have to add? What is your argument as to why it may or may not fail in this piece of media? I don’t think it’s being portrayed as positive or desirable. It’s bad I think it’s pretty clear that it’s bad and if you don’t think it is then explain why. I want to talk about the things let me talk about them and if you’re just going to complain leave the discussion because you clearly don’t want to be here-
But yeah this issue is more complicated than just that. We need to be aware of the aspects of a piece of media and how its themes affect each other. How do you view it, what does the discussion look like compared to the other?
People are allowed to enjoy things as long as they know how to consume the things being showed >:(
As someone who played the game, the game itself glosses over murder, cannibalism, and demon sacrifice, or more accurately, it treats these themes as darkly comedic because TCOAL is significantly more dark comedy than it is psychological horror, sharing a lot more of its DNA with the works of Jhonen Vasquez than it does with something like the Silent Hill franchise, and thus it's debatable if it's treating incest as something the Graves siblings will need to work through or as edgy Hot Topic themed shipping fodder.
What really concerns me is how people with poor media literacy use their willful ignorance and moral judgment to clout chase by causing deliberate social and psychological harm to other people just for liking and talking about "problematic" media. And they clap themselves on the back and call themselves good people for DOING HIGH SCHOOL BULLY SHIT. it's psychotic. These people should delete their social media accounts, touch grass, maybe live in a cabin in the woods for a month. and admit to themselves they're not such a good person and they need to take a good hard long look at themselves in the mirror.
It's kind of why, while I look at disgust with people that deny that the problematic elements of media are even there, I can't take people who get really up in arms about these elements seriously anymore. Fundamentally, I don't think moral crusades about media lead anywhere good or productive, and 90%+ of the time are an excuse for socially acceptable social violence and sadism. Purity culture people are some of the most gleeful, monstrous sadists, while acting like they're protecting people. Should we point out problematic elements? Sure. Should we say people are bad for liking the media that may contain those elements. pretty much never.
@@tattoocutiegal7629I mean even if it is edgy fanservice, that’s probably fine, not least because it’s in a non-canon alternate ending that the game actively warns you will be questionable before you lock in your choice.
I wish I could like a comment twice, i agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said
I originally turned off Gushing the moment Utena first transformed. That immediately hit my line. But then the only streamer I'll watch, Psyculturists, decided to do a watchalong of it, where he does extensive breakdowns of the psychology behind shows. So I picked it back up so that I knew what would be coming. And as the watchalong continued, he made a lot of very interesting and enlightening conversation based on the show. I managed to learn a lot about psychology I never would have known if I wasn't willing to engage with a show that pushed my personal boundaries.
Ah, the wizard does it again, lesgooooo
Thanks for the recommendation.
@@kuber2317 If you end up liking his style, his watch of Oshi no Ko is his best work.
To give anyone unfamiliar with him an idea of how extensive his analysis can be, he will regularly do videos that are 2+ hours long on just one episode.
@@Crazael yep and if its a new series that he's doing, always expect the 30 minute opening analysis beforehand
This is a SMALL gripe, and it DOESN’T take away from the overall message, but as your friendly neighborhood type 1 diabetic id just like to remind people that sugar is NOT bad for you. Your body actually needs sugar, and carbs, just like electrolytes and protein. You just need to know how much your specific body needs of each thing.
For me, I actually need quite a lot of sugar so I can keep my fat content high enough to support my insulin pump. I need a fat layer to inject the insulin into, without a thick fat layer it injects into muscle, and then I become afraid of food and I go back to 90lbs and it’s a whole mess.
So yeah! Just keep that in mind, sugar isn’t evil, and everyone needs different things, even if *you* think it’s obvious what they need.
I very much agree with this. on an audience end, I'd say even just having the self awareness to be uncomfortable on a logic level while enjoying the thing with your lizard brain is evidence enough that the logic brain is working. you know the objections that a person could have to this thing, if their lizard brain isn't impressed. for that person, the currency that the uncomfortable thing was bought with doesn't even work. and you're just gonna have to live with that.
to use a completely innocuous example... I'm not a fan of Demon Slayer. I thought the writing was boring and dropped it pretty early on. most people's attention was bought with the animation, which is admittedly gorgeous. some people's attention might've even been bought with that very same story. these forms of currency worked well for them, but they did not work for me. I didn't like the story, and none of the qualities that the show possessed actually paid enough to keep me invested.
but when the content could genuinely be harmful, your logic brain is in charge of telling you two things. one: this thing is weird. some might think that it's wrong or gross. and if this was fully non-fiction, then they wouldn't be incorrect. if you publicly share this interest, then those people might need a reassurance from you, that this content doesn't affect your real world behavior... especially around folks who could be hurt with full sincerity. and two: this thing, which might hurt someone if it were done to real people, is fictional right now. and much like a BDSM scene, the author has crafted a fictional narrative in which you can watch it happen, but you can also revoke your consent at any time. you can turn it off, if it turns you off, in any sense that you take this to mean. you're never obligated to stay.
in fact, I'd say all of problematic content boils down to issues of consent. who is capable of seeing this thing? are they okay with seeing this thing? if they don't like this thing, can they opt out? will they be respected for their choice? will the people who opted in be respected for their choice to engage with the fiction? how do we go about discussing topics that need content warnings? and like... there are already systems in the BDSM world for giving and revoking consent while pretending to do things to a person that would be really upsetting if the situation were real. and on a less NSFW level, maturity rating systems on movies are there for the sake of informed consent. tags on AO3 are there for the sake of informed consent. reviews can be used for informed consent. the website "does the dog die" is there for informed consent. even just asking a friend with more robust immunity to topics you're sensitive to can help inform you, so that you can decide whether or not you consent.
and honestly, warnings before you watch or read a thing can also inform the general public that this is a thing that needs to be warned for. it's not the norm... it's potentially upsetting. you can consent to it, but not everyone will, and it is appropriate to ask. and that, in my opinion, really helps combat the normalization of harmful elements. the fiction is fiction. you can consume it if you want to. but please be aware... it could hurt people. you've been informed for a reason, as all folks should be.
anyway, here's an anecdote to cap things off.
I have a friend who can be a little squeamish about violence. this friend really wanted to watch Dorohedoro. and I was all in favor... she loved it, I knew it'd be right up her alley, the aesthetics were 100% her thing. but in order to help her watch it, I watched it first, and took notes. at certain points, I'd just tell her something gross was gonna happen. she'd look away from the screen, but the audio didn't bother her, and I'd tell her when it was over. we were watching subbed, so I'd just tell her what the dialogue was if anyone spoke during it. and as we watched the show, sometimes I'd give the warning, and she'd ask me what, specifically, was going to happen. or sometimes, without knowing anything, she'd just keep watching. sometimes she'd regret it. but she's the one who decided, and we were able to finish the season just fine like that.
a person can go the extra mile to enjoy a show, even when it contains things that they personally can't stand. she got viscerally grossed out looking at the violence, but I think she enjoyed the overall effect that it had on the tone of the work. she wouldn't even wish it gone... it's not a flaw. it should be there. so like... it's even possible to enjoy a part of the work that you can't fully consume. but information and consent make ALL the difference.
I used violent and horrible media as a way to cope with my bullying in middle school (and I mean horrible in r@pe murder and psychological abuse) . I think it was thanks to that outlet that I never became bitter and resentful.
It was a somewhat healthy coping mechanism that helped me process my trauma and pent up anger.
It kinda twisted my tastes in fiction but I had to work with what I had and I regret nothing
Very relatable!! I also use heavy fiction as my coping mechanism too! BTW, I love your Kotori icon 🥺 X is one of my favorite CLAMP series next to Tokyo Babylon hxkmdbxgjx
The whole "separate the artist from the art" thing is a pretty complicated discussion. I get both sides of it. On the one hand, it's ridiculous to say that enjoying a creator's work and agreeing with them on everything are one and the same. And a lot of people just want to enjoy art that they like and that helps them cope with stress from the real world without having to worry about whether or not they endorse the person that made it and I think that's fair. And for some people, boycotting a product isn't worth it because a lot of the time boycotts don't work. On the other hand, supporting creators who have done or who believe bad things, financially or otherwise, is condoning or supporting what they've done, even if it's just a little. And some people are just going to feel plain uncomfortable supporting certain people or consuming their work. And that's fair.
The problem I tend to have with this discussion is when either side is treated like the objectively right side. When people either insist other people should just let it go and separate the artist from the art when other people are uncomfortable consuming the media or when people try to guilt trip people into not supporting the work. I think it just has to be a personal choice honestly. Like, let's take JK Rowling as an example. If people feel uncomfortable watching or reading Harry Potter because they now associate the work with all the things she's said and done and they've sold all of their HP merchandise on Ebay, that's perfectly understandable and fine. If someone still enjoys Harry Potter because in their mind the work hasn't been tainted, I also think that's fine. If those same people just enjoy it privately and try to not buy merchandise or publicly talk about it without bringing up Rowling because they feel that's the right thing to do, I respect that. If people do want to support the HP brand financially or just promote/recommend it, I would say they're allowed to, but they should also think carefully about it and just accept that some people aren't going to agree with that, the same way some people aren't going to take issue with them buying fast fashion. "Separate the artist" isn't a band-aid to smack onto the issue that will make the problem go away. I think it's best to see it as a personal decision and not something that will magically make the problem go away.
I generally agree but for some cases, I feel the moral line to boycott becomes clearer and easier to understand. Like there's this famous manga with a red-haired samurai that was made by a mangaka that was arrested for having CP on his computer. I believe he recently got out and thus if you buy his shit, you financially support someone who owned CP.
Now it still applies to how enjoying his story doesn't make you a bad person but I think most would say to pirate it at that point to avoid supporting the CP guy. Otherwise it's easier to say you're doing a bad act.
@@beyvntarson3123it’s kinda even more fucked up considering if I recall correctly, Rurouni Kenshin is one of the few series to not really have had any problematic showings of an underage girl
@@beyvntarson3123I believe that if the artist has done something morally reprehensible, that the easiest way to not support them is to simply pirate or get their content at a library or second-hand. That way you can still consume the content that they produced before they committed their crime without supporting the artist.
I believe that the artist, after the completion of their work, is no longer involved. The story is finished.
JK Rowling's comments towards trans individuals does not affect Harry Potter in my worldview whatsoever. I do however refuse to buy official merch or do anything that would financially support her.
do the several transphobic carticures within the harry potter series also not taint it for you or
@@olliek8235 to be honest I've never actually read the Harry Potter series I've only ever read fanfiction of Harry Potter and watched the movies. If there were transphobic characters I think I was too young to notice. It's been at least seven years since I last watched a Harry Potter movie. Could you please tell me which characters were transphobic? Genuinely asking because I have no clue who you're talking about.
Thought crimes aren’t real and media you consume doesn’t reflect your values. It’s always helpful to have a reminder!
*doesn't always reflect your values.
@@seekingabsolution1907 No, it straight up DOESN'T. There is no inherent link between what you consume as media and what your moral stance is. Yes, most people actively pursue media that matches their values, but that doesn't mean the media reflects their values, as they are often projecting their own crap onto the media in the first place.
Good. I don’t want others trying to make me believe that I’m apparently this terrible, immoral person that is a danger to society for the crime of simply watching/playing/consuming this or that media. Too many annoying moral arbiters/puritans out there who want to look like heroes in public but are likely no better themselves in private.
@@jtnachos16Right - the reason we’re not all psychotic mass murderers for playing COD & Halo is the same reason you’re not screwed in the head for enjoying a show. Especially considering the content of said media is *fictional.*
We aren't ALL psychotic mass murderers... but some fans of violent media ARE. It all depends on WHY you enjoy said media.
Do you enjoy competitive strategy? Teamwork with other players? Or does the thought of picking up a high capacity rifle and filling a bunch of strangers with hot lead feed something within you? Consume whatever media you want, but also don't be afraid to critique why you enjoy this so much.
I think fanficers have it figured out tbh. "don't like don't read" might be the greatest montra to ever grace fiction. Its not s crime or moral failing to like dark/horny/weird things. And sure theres something to be said about works made purely to push harmful narratives. (such as the cult thing) But in the end ALL censorship is bad. (yes even that censorship) And it isnt a mortality crime to enjoy a story. (yes even that story)
I sadly have to correct you on the "the age of girls are left unsaid".
The manga specifies 14. Multiple times.
Yes, I hate this information too. I hate it even more when I consider that it perfectly fits the "coming-of-age, discovering your sexuality, etc" themes the story goes for.
I fucking hate that this manga is so good that it made me go: "Ah yes, the paedophilia is integral to the plot" because it feels gross just thinking it
idk why he said high schoolers when they seemed like middle schoolers
At that point, for stories like that, I just say “we got Superbad and American Pie, so fuck it, we ball”
I don’t apply this rule evenly or fairly, but it is a good cope.
If you hate it, don't watch it. Simple solution. If you like it despite these issues, then it sounds like you don't "hate" it that much.
Real. I was excited when Leber and Loco were introduced because I thought they would be adults like Gigant and Lord Enorme, but nah they had to be 14 year olds too 🙃
@schorltourmaline4521 I don't hate the manga, I love it in fact. I "hate" how good it is because I can't just say I enjoy it ironically, it's just plain good, despite the really touchy subject and depiction
So read that "hate" as a full endorsement if you can stomach the premise
It’s nice to hear a nuanced breakdown of the potential harms. Aware of the influence media can have on us and of sharing that media with other people. As much as I’ve seen people argue that depicting something makes it problematic and ergo you shouldn’t support it, so too I’ve seen people try to close their eyes and insist the thing is just fun, don’t dig deeper it doesn’t mean anything (video games have it a lot worse in this regard).
bro this is so good this video helped me so much to wrap my head about this topic that always sparks a lot of complicated feelings making it hard to think about thank you so much for tackling stuff like this ❤❤
also there's a good way to be able to consume media made by problematic people without supporting them financially in any way: good old piracy!
Something that I think makes Gushing Over Magical Girls a bit easier to tolerate than other outwardly similar series is that: 1, the victims are fully fleshed out characters in their own right, and exist outside of the porn elements; and 2, the theme is BDSM, which while outwardly seeming distressing, is ultimately designed to be pleasurable for all participants. Putting those two together, it’s possible to project onto the victims, but still enjoy the series as a wish-fulfillment fantasy. Makes it feel tamer than it really is, I suppose.
I am in no way advocating for the censorship of media that I heavily disagree with or in which I find very problematic aspect, as those medias are already published, the harm is done. But every media deserve to receive criticism, as viewers we have every right to call out or inform about senstive topics that we may think are badly handled or bad enough to affect people or groups of people, with it sometimes not negating our enjoyment of said media.
For short, feel free to explore every sensitive/dark topic, in any way you want, but I think content warnings should be available for evey media, for those who wants to read them. If you don't want to read content warnings because you care more about spoilers than sensitive content it's fine, just let people that have the opposite priority get that opportunity to be warned.
And when exloring dark topics, always expect criticism to come at you.
One example that resonated deeply with EP's point about problematic media being published in the first place being a systemic issue, is that one french comic that I won't name, published by a very famous author in france. However, I don't want to send more attention to him. His comic is child pornography. It depicts a child, in sexual situations and the author said that this comic of his was inspired by HIS fantasies. CP is illegal in france, yet publishers accepted this.
While I wish this comic didn't exist in the first place, I still do not wish for it to be completely censored. It deserves to exist as proof of the author's wrong doing and we have every right to call out this author and the editors that allowed this.
one last example that is less heavy is my own enjoyment of Higurashi despite the sexualization of minors which I don't approve of. While I wish this content wasn't allowed in the show in the first place, Higurashi is primarily about horror, and the horror is great. And while I think the show would benefit from not having Mion/Shion wear that sexy maid outfit or the doctor NOT being attracted by Satoko despite the fact that she's 12 ... those issues are unfortunately not new in manga/anime. Pedophilia is an issue we'll have to speak on, for a long time before we see less of it casually displayed or it being treated as a joke in most japanese media.
@@fleur_999 How the hell do you go from 'in no way advocating for censorship' and then saying 'I don't like this, so it shouldn't be published'? That's contradictory in the extreme, as it is still censorship to prevent expression. It's also REALLY hard to analyze the validity of your claims about a 'french comic' when you refuse to give the info needed to get context. That reeks of well-poisoning while knowing the facts don't match your claim.
@@jtnachos16 where the hell did I say "I don't like this, so it shouldn't be published ?" 🤣 I only stated the fact that cp is illegal and if you want to do some research about "Petit Paul" go ahead. This ain't a debate about him tho, I don't know why you seem so eager to defend that guy when you know nothing about him. I only used him as an example of illegal media that still gets published and I even made the point that I don't want his comic removed.
Let's focus on something more interesting, shall we ? I think EP has made some good points despite sounding like "contradicting" himself. It's called nuance and multiple statements can be true at once.
@@fleur_999 It's a comic book. One that, from what a quick search shows, is purposefully using a caricaturized style with unrealistic proportions and clearly fictional framing. You are doing exactly what I suspected, and labeling it cheese pizza when it is not. IDGAF what french law says, I don't know french law. I know that by US standards, it doesn't qualify, and the only reference I can find to legality there, is in the form of some sort of 'optional second' that was part of an agreement france ratified. Images of fictitious minors aren't cheese pizza, and going after that instead of focusing efforts on ACTUAL problems is a waste of everyone's time and efforts.
You literally said 'I don't like this, so it shouldn't be published' when you went on a rant about a french author and misrepresented his work as something it isn't.
The reason I come across as 'quick to defend' an unknown individual, is because, as you proved: SAME OLD SHIT of people misrepresenting what something is to try to suppress and demonize it, in doing so distracting from actual victims and contributing to a shaming culture that does nothing positive. It solely allows moral busybodies to pat themselves on the back over being 'righteous'.
I feel like it needs to be emphasized more that the key is to watch the content critically. that's not "watch it with the preconceived notion that the thing is bad", or "watch it and let yourself be lulled into a false understanding of the content's message", that's "watch it and analyze the moral weight of the content from as objective and rational a position as you can".
Maybe more like "watch it and over-analyze the moral weight of the content that you Believe it to have and justify watching it (when people talk about it) by putting yourself as personally rational and objectively right of a position as you can".
I go by one relatively simple rule: So long as someone understands the difference between fiction and reality, the fictional content they consume is irrelevant to their real life morality.
15:25 Yes! Exactly! And this is exactly why I wish the characters in Gushing were all above 18. Because I would otherwise be completely down for a show about characters discovering they're not vanilla and into some kinky stuff and reconciling that with the person they thought they were and wondering if they're bad because they've got kinks they deem "bad" through the theme of something fantastical like super powers!
Yep. If these girls were all in college, I'd be completely down for this.
@@ExplanationPointAnime Hell, even if they WERE still teenagers, just... don't have them Actively Do The Things. Have them think about it, realize it, and go on to learn so that they don't get hurt. Teenagers do the do. They get horny. That's one of the highlights of puberty, y'know? But showing teenagers going about coping with their feelings in healthy ways, OR showing the consequences of it going badly (think the musical Spring Awakening), would be helpful. Art is not always a rulebook on what is moral and good, but if you're gonna show the reality of teenagers coming into their own in this way... might as well show them doing it safely.
@@salmonandsoup I think that would give us a *very* different show. I'm not saying you're wrong, but the angle that GoMG chose to go with for creating a mood was very. . . let's call it brash, bold, and unashamed, to be polite. It's exploring the same kind of thematic space as O Maidens in Your Savage Season, but it chose to do it in basically the complete opposite way that that show does.
It's like how Gurren Lagann and Evangelion are both mech shows that explore self-doubt and the need for human connection, but Evangelion does it in a way that's very introspective and thoughtful and Gurren Lagann does it in a way that's bombastic and carefree. GoMG is Gurren-Laganning puberty shows. . . for better or worse. And while I'm not saying it's impossible for a puberty-based Gurren Lagann to be thoughtful and introspective as well, I think it would be very hard to pull it off while still feeling like a celebration of sexuality in the way the creators seemingly intended it to be.
@@ExplanationPointAnime Nah, you make a very fair point! I guess I just don't see enough Evangelion-style introspective shows regarding s3xuality, puberty, and k1nk. (Hate having to censor this, but I want it to get through.) There's been a LOT of Gurenn Lagann'ing it, in that sense, which I don't think is bad because it IS just a natural part of life, but toning it down may also be helpful to those who ARE frightened by it still.
I'm trying to figure out how to say that I don't think there's enough "combatting" the Gurenn Lagann'ing without sounding like it HAS to be a competition, but it reminds me of how I watched The Fall of the House of Usher recently, and after hearing what Kate Siegel said about how she created Camille, it made me go :/ immediately. Camille is the spin doctor of the Usher family, and she's very good at espionage, conning, lying, and is not a very nice person, always wanting something out of everything. She's had a natural talent because, in Siegel's words, "she's Romani, and has learned to con people from a young age".
(and I know this is just my opinion, but...) There's not enough media that shows Romani people that doesn't play into the stereotype for me not to be worried that that's just going to keep causing harm to the Romani people. In that sense, there's not enough Evangelion'ing that people aren't going to take advantage of how much Gurenn Lagann'ing there is. There is still a TON of bias with animation that it's "just for kids" no matter what story is being told, which means that more younger teens than I'd like may find shows like GoMG, which very much ARE for an 18+ audience at the end of the day. That could lead to genuine consequences if there aren't proper content warnings and a change in the way we see media consumption. But I don't even have a solution for that.
but it wouldn't be the same story. it is, purposefully about teenagers confronting desires that teenagers are not, according to adults, supposed to have, that adults won't tell them anything about.
Probably my new favorite video of yours. Amazing work.
So glad you're in a place mentally to post online again, and consistently being one if the best and most thoughtful ani-tuber around. probably my favorite so far, that harry potter sight gag really got me
It's really great to see you have some personal reflection about the topic, and I very much agree with the points you made in this video. There's a massive difference between enjoying fictional content that you know is "problematic", and being someone who endorses said behaviour in real life. I don’t think it's right to insult or attack people for enjoying such media openly, but people should absolutely be responsible about it when it comes to involving others who may not be as comfortable about it as they are. And that *especially* applies to the companies that promote and distribute it. It’s a nuanced topic and I think you handled it well.
I also apologize if my tweet at the time came across as harsh, and I'm glad you chose not to escale it any further.
8:11 i dont know why the "but damnit they're dapper" made me laugh so much but it definetly did kudos.
This is genuinely one of the most useful videos on the Internet, thanks for making it.
I think the problem with disowning problematic media, is that we're disowning the inherent problematic nature of our species. And, well, its a slippery slope I feel, cause if we can disown media simply for being problematic, then we can disown any work of media and become close-minded individuals. Being on the fence all the time, worsens matters too I believe. Lets not claim something endorses something cause it could be "implied" that it does, simply because it portrays something immoral, like harems. Like for fucks sake, anime does not endorse pedophilia just by portraying the relations, and if it does endorse pedophilia, well, fuck, the only things I think should be considered endorsements in anime, are verbal ones, like "Pedophilia is good and virtuous!"-IN-CONTEXT, not out of context, cause for all you or I know, its a joke when we're missing that extra context. And people who potentially get the wrong idea about slavery from anime & for some reason act on it and do real harm in the world, aren't particularly mature people and likely don't know the "suspension of disbelief" rule. Anyways, I don't really care for the more confusing elements of this discussion, so don't reply to me please. If you do, I'll have verbal diarrhea all over you.
Edit; And, its important to mention that, yes, the implicit messaging DOES matter especially if the audience is underaged, and by no means, should something containing material that is easy to misunderstand. That stuff should be saved for adults - for the most part, with kids getting exposed to the greyer stuff gradually, and then more and more as they grow up, but never have it be as a baseline - heaven knows, that shits f'd me up a bit already, and I'm an adult! The only reason I'm not going crazy is cause of how socialised I've been to be complacent and keep my head down.
You put to words as to why some really good people sometimes watch scum of the earth type of shows. Thanks for your work that was great video.
For the HiDive point. I get the idea that it being on the homepage is kinda problematic. But while HiDive is *one of* the most popular anime streaming sites, that’s kinda like saying gushing over magical girls is one of the more interesting magical girls shows. Ya gotta be pretty deep into anime to be at that point.
Like nobody wants to pay for HiDive when Crunchyroll has 90% of what you’d wanna watch. *I* barely wanted to pay to watch Oshi no Ko. What your talking about would be bad in a vacuum, but in context of, Crunchyroll Hulu and Netflix has most of the anime you’d ever want to watch I think having it on the front page is fine, because it’s safe to assume that if you bought the subscription, then you probably came there for one of those shows.
Hidive also does have a parental control feature, which hides stuff like this, so it's not like kids are just stumbling into it.
I enjoyed the overall point of the video, ender's game is was my favorite book as a kid and thst takes some grappling with some days, but I really don't think gushing deserved to be included honestly. It's spicy but harmless.
Just pirate Oshi no ko then. Get an adblocker and go on a piracy site.
Yeah I think hidive has kinda cultivated a more "adult" image with all the porn they've licensed. If you're getting into anime, you'll almost certainly not start with hidive. Probably start with netflix, maybe move onto crunchyroll, and only go to hidive if there's a specific show you really wanna see. And really i just wish people would normalize reading the damn summary and looking at the tags before watching a show lol, goblin slayer was tv14 at time of airing iirc, so it's kinda reasonable to be annoyed at a rape scene in the first episode. GOMG is like, really obviously porn if you've been an anime fan any amount of time. I think the hidive summary is a bit vague iirc, but it's tagged MA and there's nipple pasties on the poster. It's reasonable to assume it's not exactly kid friendly lol.
I don't use HiDive but I assume it's not just the cover picture of the series and when you click it the first episode starts. I assume you get to see a description of the show and a preview and maybe some genre tags, all of which might tell you "hey, this isn't my Saturday morning magical girl show".
@@upg5147 So, this is what pops up when you click that picture link:
Tags: Action and Adventure - LGBT - Comedy - TV-MA
Description: Hiragi Utena thought she’d transform into a magical girl, but she transformed into a magical-girl-tormenting sadist instead!
0:14 Bruh, why? Who would even hate Marcille?
Finally my favorite youtuber releases the sweet nectar of academic study to me
I love your channel, and now I love it even more because of this video. I used to watch shows like this when I was younger, like a car crash you can't look away from type of vibe, and as an adult I was never able to put into words how they made me feel. Your video did that for me, ty :)
Title had me worried for a sec, but I ended up agreeing with just about everything you say here. Great video!
So the moral of the story is that if you're going to explicitly tackle certain subjects make sure to put a warning and corresponding tags. Also that we should all probably look at the tags associated with whatever we're about to consume.
I only remembered the one! The one with the ice cream cone.
usually, I have seen people who use the problematic term in media, is one involves authors and their works glorifying or romanticizing serious issues, either to make recurring jokes or to normalize distasteful matters. To either make recurring jokes or normalizing icky things. The term "problematic" has been misused in works that feature an unreliable narrator or a particularly dark story often. This may be due to the subtlety of writing in media; they don't explicitly state "this is bad!" but instead continue the narrative with adverse events occurring for just the reader's experience. For some, it might be challenging for some to discern the nuanced or different portrayal of a topic from malicious intent.
I have noticed that on Twitter, many manga authors who write dark stories are often alleged of horrible things. For example, the author of Made in Abyss has been a subject of allegations.
Some readers believe the author, who depicted very inappropriate and disturbing moments involving young characters in the story, is a bad person. They can't tell if it's a fetish for the author wanted the character to overcome an obstacle. I mean, there is a very big difference in the Made in abyss author vs Mai Chan's author, who created dark media, their intentions of each works were different.
It's a problem getting worse. I even had this mentality younger that if you don't make a clear statement for the audience as an artist or even a fan of that dark media = bad person. This is largely because some manga artists/authors have created very strange stories or have been exposed as terrible individuals, which has left me with a lasting impression every time I encounter similar dark media.
I don't think I quite understand the issue with tropes becoming "normalised". To use your Peanut example, is it a problem for peanuts to grow popular to a point of a lot of deserts containing peanut, if a lot of people prefer it that way? Sure you should label/gatekeep where appropriate, but I see it as (dessert) culture evolving, neither objectivly good nor bad.
Thirty years ago First Person Shooters were considered "problematic", now they are a popular and accepted genre.
i've said this 4 many years but something that people overlook is that media is actually very bad at changing peoples minds, but it's VERY good at reinforcing things that people already believe. this is the purpose of propaganda, it's made with the assumption that u already agree with it.
Interesting point. So you would say that the most harmful media is media that's made for an audience of people who already have quote-unquote "bad" views and is made with the goal of reinforcing those views?
@@ExplanationPointAnime literally 1 of the 1st things that the nazi party did after taking power in 1933 was establish the Reichsfilmkammer. i think u can probably figure out what that was 4.
I mean, once you're an adult. and it's personality dependent. Some people really are just sponges.
*This Video:* **Exists**
*People With Poor Media Literacy:* And I took that personally.
Another banger of media literacy and material analysis, EP. I really appreciate the segment talking about advertisements and streaming platforms having more to do with views than actual viewer choices, because people constantly underestimate just how much of an impact marketing has on our choices as consumers (by design, even)
I look forward to the next one as well
Fictional content is fictional content and having a moral existential crises over it is fucking stupid. If someone enjoys shows that feature a lot of "questionable" sexual content then oh well who cares they aren't hurting anyone so what's the fucking problem?
Let's not forget Interspecies Reviewers, that was pretty big and very literally porn. Definitely started that particular problem, as far as I'm aware.
the problem probably existed like very long ago
I guess I'll finally take the plunge and ask... what exactly is the problem? Specifically with Interspecies reviewers and the concept of "that's just porn" ecchi anime. Obviously I can see the glaring obvious issues with something like Gushing over Magical Girls, and there are certainly some things in Interspecies Reviewers to raise an eyebrow over, but the issues I'm seeing there _isn't_ the porn aspect itself, which seems to be the issue for a lot of people and I'm not sure I've ever understood it.
@@Ezekiel_Allium Fair question.
Interspecies Reviewers also got cancelled remember. It definitely contributed to the “I can’t believe it’s not hentai” shows but as has been pointed out none of the characters in that show were underage. Gushing over magical girls has that fetish element intersecting with anime issue of sexualising characters who are too young. There are going to be plenty of people for who fetish shows don’t cross the line but that second thread of yikes does. For whom fetishistic shows in themselves aren’t a problem
@@Ezekiel_Allium + BurningTNT The problem with I.R. wasn't the fact that it's a borderline hentai ecchi. The problem with it was how explicit it was compared to the actual source material manga. This is why the original EN dub and sub got cancelled, because nobody was prepared for such a change, and possibly why Tokyo MX *really* stepped away from broadcasting the censored version in Japan (the show itself did not get cancelled however).
I read the manga, I am a fervent moralist, I loved every second of it.
No shame nor harm there, we must learn media literacy and be able to put past "problematic" media.
A story can be good while also morally bankrupt.
Disgusting! The woman who made this manga should be ashamed of herself!
We can call Twitter X when Elon Musk respects his daughter’s life
Goblinslayer payed off its scene in time. It had to include it to give a start point to the recovery of trauma, which is the whole theme of the show.
I am a full supporter of media literacy. If one wants to add something to their story, add it. Its not some sin to depict something.
I say this as someone who has gone through a lot of traumas, very relevant to works like Beserk.
as..I hate the term victim for me, but as someone with experiences like that, goblin slayer is one of my favorite animes as it shows a story of struggling with traumas.
I have to say, you are more respectable than most who think there should be any sort of censorship in media. you at least put some thought into it, unlike other twitter users.
and to any possible story tellers reading this. Dont worry about if your story is "ok", as there will ALWAYS be someone that will say you did something wrong. Make your story, share your ideas.
I may not agree with some ideas, but I will NEVER tell someone to never share what they believe. You hate men like me? ok, make a story about that if you like, for one should always have the right to share their beliefs, even if its "harmful".
Great comment.
This is such a nuanced and important topic that I’m surprised your video on it successfully communicated its purpose without any major problems that I’ve noticed keep it up
Fantastic video. Thank you for this. I'm already sharing it to friends that struggle with this.
You're ignoring the difference between something delivered straight-facedly as a "message" (like Ranking of Kings' "Koreans need to shut up" metaphor) and stuff that's *clearly* bad in real world terms but is self-awarely presented as a fictional fantasy (how many people who watch MahoAko think it's ok for 14 year old girls to molest each other?) and also ignoring demographics. I'd argue rapey stuff presented as cool and hot in a shoujo or shonen manga is worse than Mahoako which is only read/watched by grown-ass men and women (unless there's some exceptionally irresponsible parents out there which is not Mahoako's fault)
Interesting video. The initial premise of Gushing About Magical Girls making you uncomfortable is pretty thoughtfully turned into an argument that consuming media that shows or attempts to spread ideas you find morally wrong is alright so long as you acknowledge and reject the thing the show is trying to portray as acceptable.
Though this does mean the video could essentially be boiled down to "you have to remember bad things are bad and as long as you do that you'll be fine even if you SEE bad things happen". Of course, there's a good reason to make a long video about it - you can go into much more detail and discuss the topic more deeply than what I just summarized it as. I would, however, also tack on the addition of "bad things happening in anime does not equal bad things happening in real life nor should be treated as seriously." Even if an anime shows a bad thing happening and doesn't acknowledge it as bad - or, hell, pretends it's a GOOD thing, I don't think there's a need to get worked up over it unless it's extremely sinister, well hidden AND highly effective at changing public perception of right and wrong on a large scale.
Nevermind, wrote this before the whole "normalization" thing, and felt I can ignore the whole "literal fetish porn" thing the first time but then you repeat it. To put simply, I can't trust you on the topic of normalization because as dubious as it can be you just reduce it to "I'm wondering if it's normalizing something which in itself is proof that something bad is happening". Also, for those who didn't catch on, no, it isn't LITERAL porn. It has fetishes though. But it is, in fact, not porn. Not even close.
The video also falls into some common pitfalls like the idea that certain things are bad in anime just because they're bad in real life, when the whole point of why they're bad in real life is because ACTUAL PEOPLE ARE BEING HARMED in some way - most of the examples given can't contribute to that and the only reasonable argument here is that in a fair bit of cases anime doesn't properly tag itself so people who don't want to see certain things can avoid it.
Don't even get me started on the idea that, apparently, you should avoid putting bad things into your story because an actual idiot might see it, misunderstand what made your story good or liked and proceed to just copy-paste all the bad stuff from your story into theirs, a la the "Shield Hero" argument where apparently Shield Hero is to blame for the popularization of slave ownership in the isekai genre, which is somehow a moral failing of the show's - how exactly is Aneko Yusaki, or their story, responsible for someone else doing something else? For planting the idea by proxy? Isn't that just a form of thought policing?
@@YTDariuS-my6dg Yeah, i agree. And i feel like if you think digital, fictional things are the same as real actions? It'd make you quite self-centered and have you assumes things from others, possibly making everything to revolves around you too.
There's some people that want to justify their own decision of watching something they are so hateful of.
They can't stand having people pointing out that they're watching what they hate so much, that they just tries to say "i can enjoy those things because i enjoy it critically (in a critical way)" to feel better about themselves.
@@YTDariuS-my6dg Was an absolute delight reading your thoughts here. I am not as much a deep thinker as my boil down of the video at the end was closer to him just reimagining the "Violent games will make people violent" idea.
You definitely reason it out way better.
a loli BDSM anime? you've convinced me
I like "problematic media" and I don't care if anyone has an issue with it. Go watch something else.
One of the internet’s particularly favorite concepts is “X = Y” it is often treated as some kind of fact that “if you like X then you must be Y, no exceptions.” It makes it particularly easy to judge others and prop oneself over them because that is usually the end goal. “Everyone look at them, they’re XYZ! Not like me! I would never do such a thing!” And so long as this mindset is so prevalent online I think it’s relatively impossible to have a calm and reasonable discussion about things like this in any way that is helpful. Despite the well meaning attempt.
MahouAko is the kind of show where you need to have an amount of trust in yourself that you are not gonna be a terrible person because you watched something with the questionable aspects that it holds. Ya need to have an amount of confidence that violence in video games or gex on TV is not gonna influence you to be a worse person.
And like, ya also gotta be able to have some trust in other people who watch it, and I don't mean a blind trust, but one based on some meaningful observation. Some people enjoy MahouAko and make content about in ways that make me think that they are of questionable moral standing even before they watched the show, and I judge that accordingly, but also a vast majority of people enjoy it in ways that make me think "There is no current evidence that they are of any concern, we will see if further evidence reinforces this, or changes this" and go on with my life, cause chances are I'm never gonna interact with that person ever again, and being needlessly paranoid about people is gonna help no-one. I think the media people consume is something that can indicate important things about them, but ya gotta be able to judge that with a level head, and ask "*how* are they enjoying it, *why*?" cause that context matters
yeah, absolutely. I see people being up in arms and I'm like "how weak is your morality that you're worried you can't handle this, skill issue frankly". I have a certain amount of pride that I could watch/read practically anything and not be negatively influenced, because I'm not a goddamn uncritical sponge.
Me being a hetero cis woman enjoying Gushing over Magical Girls and Interspecies Reviewers with my brother: this is entertaning lol :P
As long as one can clearify what is fictional and what is real, keeping your moral standards in real life, I don't think "problematic" media is such problematic
The issue with these online discussions always manifests the exact same way: one side feels so strongly about the morality of the situation (often ignoring any actual logic) that they immediately start off far too aggressively. And of course when that happens the natural human response is to get defensive and either mock or ignore them, resulting in the exact opposite of what the first person wanted.
I love shows like Made in Abyss and Mushoku Tensei, in part because of the questionable aspects, because it doesn’t feel overly sanitised like a lot of media these days and feels like a deeper depiction of life than the surface level stuff you see everywhere. So when I see people attacking these shows, with the implication that they think all media should be sanitised in the exact way I hate, it does feel incredibly minimising, like my tastes aren’t even a consideration, and whether that’s a reasonable emotional response or not, it does make me feel the urge to minimise them back. It’s a vicious cycle that could so easily be avoided altogether by people just not coming out swinging whenever they slightly disagree with someone.
Same.
It basically comes down to a persons ability to separate fiction from reality fictional characters arent real people and most can seperate them selves from it to enjoy something but its worth warning the small percentage that cant or whos views may be effected or for people who out right dont enjoy some things if I recemend MT (tho if im recemending a isaki its going to be re zero) ill say hey keep a level of separation between fiction and reality because it can be very uncomfortable and rides a fine line
Simply this. No essay needed. And can apply to any fictional media.
The fact that this is presented as a big revelation floors me. But then again we live in a world where bullying someone for playing a game was-by the accounts of a lot of people-more important than a fundraiser they were doing for charity.
The simple fact people ENTERTAINED the idea that others had a right to morally judge them for watching a show is a failure. No, not the reasons why, just for watching it.
Also fuck the word "problematic". It's a mealy-mouthed non-statement that invites no challenge and offers no argument. It adds nothing to the conversation and is only there to bait the other person into saying something that will then be spun in a self-incriminatory fashion.
I saw a post that summed it up pretty nicely with “Unlike basically any Nickelodeon show, Baiser isn’t going to grow up and become an alcoholic because she can’t cope with how badly her childhood acting job fucked her up in ways she can’t even process.”
@@chukyuniqul It's funny because even the worst piece of media with no redeemable points still have reason for people to engage in it. Morally judging others for engaging with a media literally stunts media analysis of "why thing bad". Unless the main goal is censorship, and encouragement of spoon feeding media curated by a committee; but that's a story for another time.
@@chukyuniquli mean… it less feels like a big revelation and more a grappling with a personal feeling about a show to interrogate it and understand his own position on media that depicts questionable content, as a result of being faced with what feels like a contradiction in your own internal judgements. As he said, he’s made the point that MT is near unwatchable for it’s sexualisation of minors but found this show enjoyable. That’s a feeling worth examining to understand why
I think Gushing Over Magical Girls has some really valuable and *positive* themes that could be very helpful for people struggling with their sexuality. Obviously the characters are all gay (men literally dont exist in MahoAko's world) but more importantly than that, theyre all girls going through puberty discovering their sexuality.
It's usually considered rather taboo to discus children's sexuality, yet its important to acknowledge it exists. In fact, not gaving children educated on sex makes them more vulnerable to exploitation on the more extreme front. But even with something more minor like "shit, am i into bdsm" letting people know that actually, yeah, its ok to be kinky, is probably a good thing. As adults, we dont really talk about how kids are actually really sexually curious, but if you think back to yourself when you were younger, obviously you were. And young people discovering their sexuality deserve to know that it isnt bad to have those feelings, even the really "weird" ones like sadism or masochism. Especially in Japan where women's sexuality is viewed extremely negatively (women enjoying sex is portrayed negatively for the most part), but also in the west where we generally have a strain of sexual puritanism, i think its important to have depictions of women actually enjoying sexuality and learning to be comfortable with themselves.
Beyond the first ~9 chapters of the manga, MahoAko's primary throughline is sexual discovery and more importantly acceptance. The moment this changed is when Azul had her breakdown against Baiser, and this was carried through to her La Veritas form where she learns to embrace the masochistic side of herself. Her character is a surprisingly genuine depiction of what it can be like to grapple with your sexuality. Utena herself goes through very important development where she herself grapples with her lust and logic, and its all tied in with the plot in a very neat and tidy way. I think its something that a lot of people who grew up not understanding their sexuality can probably relate heavily to.
Of course, thats not to say its a perfectly positive depiction of lesbian kink. Like 75% of it is technically sexual assault. And obviously we dont want teenagers thinking thats ok. That said, as things go on, much of it comes off more as a teasing game between the characters rather than legitimately traumatizing assault. That probably sounds messed up, but you get a taste of it with the final anime episode.
One final point ill make is that I dont actually think Gushing Over Magical Girls is particularly misogynistic. I actually think ot caters more to lesbians than it does to straight men. Certainly in the Japanese fan communities ive seen, theres a huge number of female fans, far more than I think people would expect. I think some of this comes down to there not being any way for men to self insert. There are only women in the universe and the characters actions are almost always focused on each other rather than the audience if that makes sense. While obviously its full of fan service and stuff, its done in a far more tasteful way than many far less explicit stories.
Also, the manga is WAY less explicit than the anime. Theres no full nudity in the manga, and i think the anime is actually made worse for showing the characters fully naked. The manga was very artful in its censorship of the characters' "bits" and not having that definitely detracts from the experience.
tl;dr Gushing Over Magical Girls is going to be a yuri classic in 10 years mark my words
People often assume that queer media which engages with queerness in a problematic or potentially discomfiting way must be primarily directed at the heterosexual majority in some fetishistic fashion, but this kind of ignores the fact that, y'know, queer people can be weird little perverts too, and this includes lesbians cis and trans alike. Most yuri manga, including most of the really wild or ratched stuff, isn't made by cishet men or made for a predominantly cishet male audience, but rather made by and for women with a substantial himedanshi periphery demographic, and this has been the case since the term "yuri" entered the otaku lexicon in the 1980s via the somewhat radical gay magazine Barazoku. Sure, there are guys who find that sort of thing hot, and so it goes, but there's a degree of stereotyping similar to the somewhat misogynistic framing of fujoshi which frankly annoys the hell out of me. Which is to say, of course the most passionate fans of this series are queer women. They're the ones buying the questionable Precure doujinshi at Comiket that it's clearly riffing on! :P
Yeah it's kind of funny lol. There's plenty of men enjoying it certainly, but there's also plenty of sapphics going nuts and it's just assumed they're men too because they like it. It's kinda like k-on where if you click on someone with a pfp from the show 50/50 whether they're a total shithead or they're openly gay in bio.
I read the manga for Gushing Over Magical Girls a year or two ago, and had the great blessing of just not stopping to consider how old the characters were at first. And let me tell you I was SO disappointed when I finally put two and two together.
I feel like if there was a 1-for-1 remake of the story where basically the only thing changed is that all the characters were early 20s, it would be vastly improved, and I would be such a fan. But no, instead I need to deal with the constant discomfort of that decision if I ever want to engage with it again.
But yeah, great video! Imo you captured the nuance of the subject pretty well :)
Yeah that was me for like the first 20 chapters but then I actually stopped and thought about it. I ended up dropping it because I ran out of chapters but the worst part about it was I was genuinely enjoying the story while not truly recognizing how problematic the content was. I just kind of turned off my brain and wasn't paying attention to the context.
While reading I never realized that the characters were supposed to be under age. Sometimes while reading manga I don't pay attention to the finer details and I just read without absorbing anything.
The ages are shown in manga explicitly, but they didn't show them in anime at all. Though it's obvious that they are the schoolgirls. On the other hand Korisu, who's supposed to be 9 years old only does some weird roleplaying and is always in charge.
Somewhat related to this, Lindsay Ellis's content about death of the author theory is really good, if anyone wants a solid, nuanced meditation on the subject.
If memory serves, the person who used to be named Digibro also had a few good videos making other interesting arguments about the same subject as this ExPoint video is talking about, but good luck finding those.
This might be the best video on media literacy I've ever seen
man I agree completely with the point of this video and I cannot believe they had this on the front page...
Are there any instances where the shock and reveal of a detail like you're talking about would be ruined by that kind of disclaimer?
A new upload
Simply fantastic
Watched Gushing Over Magical Girls in its entirety about a week ago. Pretty good laugh. Some bizarre fetishes that I absolutely did not look up after watching the show.
This is a really smart video. I liked it a lot. You have a way of articulating things in a way that is strong but also open to conversation that I appreciate. Thanks for making this.
Ok- so my general opinion is that saying that a peace of media is “unethical” is unwise in most circumstances. I don’t really think like that.
But your comment on “making sure people know what they’re going into” is important, and the solution of “tags/content warnings” popped straight into my head. But these can also pose issues- say, they could be inaccurate or misleading. They can also spoil plot beats and the experience.
So, let’s give an example of a story that I think does this well. There’s this webnovel that I’ve been reading called Nowhere Stars. It’s very good, I’d recommend it wholeheartedly, but it definitely deals with horrifying topics. As in, it’s a magical girl horror one, and I consider it to be the only one of Madoka’s “children” to be good. On the site, it gives the synopsis, but the author comments that the story tends to be dark and links to a general list. Personally, I like this- it establishes what the tone is going to be, and if the audience wants details then they can clarify it. If not, they can dive in spoiler free. Granted, this probably won’t translate to most things but I find it useful to note.
There’s also the opening section, which does a great job of filtering the audience. Basically, if one enjoys the Death Inverted Ark then they’ll probably enjoy the rest. It’s a bit of a “summery” of how the novel will operate.
I feel like the solution to "but what if this media reaches a person who could be harmed by it or learn a harmful life lesson from it" is to INCLUDE CONTENT WARNINGS. In my own experience as an artist and writer, trying to create art that will never upset anyone (or that could never be misinterpreted in a harmful way by someone) just leads to sanitized work that doesn't tackle the issues that I want to tackle. On the other hand, if I warn someone that my art contains potentially-upsetting topics, then they get to avoid it if they would find them upsetting... and if they choose to engage with it despite knowing that it could upset them, then that is their decision, not mine.
I really like the allergy comparison: if your dessert contains peanuts, you shouldn't stop selling it, but you should add a label that it contains peanuts, so that people who like peanuts can still enjoy it while people who are harmed by peanuts can avoid it. Similarly, if a story deals with a potentially-upsetting topic (for example, sexual violence), then you should warn people that it contains sexual violence, so that people who are upset by it can avoid it, while people who are not can still enjoy it.
Hell, let's take this comparison a step further. Some takes of "but what if it reaches someone that could hurt them" include the idea that by sharing media with possibly-hurtful elements, you could expose it to someone who will share it uncritically OR share it in a way that hurts others. I don't think the blame falls on the original sharer for that either, because you cannot control the behavior of others or how they interpret the media that you share with them.
To take the allergy comparison even further: if someone else takes the label off of your peanut-containing dessert and gives it to people without telling them, or intentionally gives it to someone with a peanut allergy, that isn't your fault unless you told them to take the label off of the dessert. You cannot be expected to control what others will do with something that you give them.
Nice to see a sober and serious discussion on this, and I agree with practically everything. The line between "I know this is bad, but I don't plan to replicate or blindly promote it, so there's nothing wrong in kicking back with the popcorn" and "for the love of Haruhi, what did I just watch and do I need to spend the next hour meditating on my life choices?" can sometimes be a fine one. That said, I am generally of the opinion that people shouldn't beat themselves up over the media they consume (and I'd say this is applicable in your case, and that you should just ignore the internet mobs shouting without knowing contexts), though it is something that should be considered case by case by the individual consuming the stories. It is, ultimately, as you say a matter of watching things wisely
I REALLY hate that squidward creepy pasta image... and I'm miffed you reminded it existed. Great vid. Take a like.
One thing that I disagree with here, is that I don't think ""problematic"" media is bad.... like at all.
We can and probably should put warnings on extreme series like this as you said, but as you yourself put it, these aspects are popular because they can be fun. I am against putting any kind of leash on fiction.
We can criticize shows for it, we can call them out for it, but this being normalized as you put it... doesn't really matter in the context of more shows doing it.
Unless it's straight up propaganda or actively promoting a problematic message.
Something like gushing over magical girls, isn't telling you go bdsm school girls, it just has that for entertainment. If you look at that and think "oh, then this must be ok to do", that's a you problem.
There is nothing wrong with a show like this doing things that would be wrong in real life for the purpose of entertainment. It's no different than violence being cool in a lot of media. Most people just have gotten used to violence, while only degenerates like me (and a lot of anime fans) are used to weird sexual things.
And honestly, Killing someone is not exactly better than even something like rape. just because one of them is normal to see in media for more people, it doesn't make it different from an objective stand point.
Someone 100 years ago, would think anyone who watches a slasher movie for fun is an absolute psycho. It's all about what you are used to seeing. but you agree with this part....
so the point is, I think it's people's responsibility to watch things wisely. Unless again, it's a direct message or propaganda, then we can say this is better off being wiped out.
Not at all a topic included here, but I think should be mentioned is that dark, controversial media often resonates with people who can empathize with a part of the experience as well. Whether receiving catharsis from watching a character go through the very traumatizing thing they went through, or joy of watching retribution against fictional versions of their abusers, or even getting to live out parts of themselves that would never fly in reality. Different stories are made for different audiences and, just because it does not match you own criteria of good, sane, or safe, doesn't mean that the media fails. It is simply not for you.
Everything you said about adding trigger warnings and acknowledging less than stellar bits of productions or sources is super important too. Because they are not made for everyone there should be ways for everyone to avoid them if they want.
I love how you point out gushing on hidive but not chained soldier next to it
I think it's probably important to note that TwiXter makes it very difficult to provide context effectively (character limits) and very easy for unrelated individuals to stumble into conversations where context might have already been assumed (the point of a hashtag, for example). It's a hell of a lot easier to do that in a blog post or a video than it is in 280 characters.
Other note on "buying" - I think it's relevant to note that there's a difference between story-relevant problematic stuff and stuff that's just there. Sometimes you have something that's sketchy and is just There in a work - sometimes it's very relevant! Gushing Over Magical Girls wouldn't be the same show if the girls felt fully developed and mature because it's about discovering sexuality - being someone who has already had experience learning about their BDSM interests is a 50 Shades of Gray (or better equivalent). You need less to buy it when it's directly there for a reason.
It really is just an inherently bad website. I've been saying that for years before the Melon guy took over.
So I think the hangup a lot of people have about teen sex comedies is the idea that the viewer must necessarily find the content titillating in order to enjoy it. While I won't dispute the fact that Gushing Over Magical girls is absolutely trying to be titillating, personally my enjoyment stems more from identification. As a queer kinky femme person who grew up in a catholic household my relationship to sex and sexuality during my teen years was basically nonexistent. It was on a shelf in my brain to be opened later upon getting married.
Now as an adult I enjoy GOM through the lense of identification. Of girls exploring these things through the lense of pretend play fights and alter egos. Of keeping sex separate from their day to day, but still kind of being able to embrace their less socially acceptable sides. And I like that the material does have that sort of exploratory tone to it, while still being a surprisingly earnest magical girl show. It's so weirdly sincere about everything for something that feels like it's also running down a fetish checklist.
Yeah, you pretty much described my experience with the parts of the show I watched. I was feeling a lot of the same stuff Utena was when I was her age, I just wasn't doing anything like what she was. Although I grew up in a non-religious household, my parents live pretty traditionally, and didn't really mention sex aside from telling me that it exists and what it is.
@@henryfleischer404 Yeah exactly like I'm so weirdly nostalgic watching this because it reminds me of my own experiences A) Discovering that kink exists and B) that I might be kind of into it.
Something I will say about Gushing over Magical Girls is this.
Utena acknowledges at the beginning that what she is doing feels very wrong, but something inside her makes her want to do it.
She knows it’s wrong, but at the same time she feels happy doing it. That dichotomy made me interested in it. That and it’s quite funny.
I can’t recommend it to anyone, but I can say I enjoyed seeing someone discover she CLEARLY needs to think long and hard about what makes her happy.
Video is way too lenient with people. If your older than 5 yo than how abou you keep your own Desecnitazion in check and godadamn DONT watch ANYTHINGG problematic? At least because your not an animal and thus 'concious' so by-defintion aware of consequences if you do something, like or exampe support the Normalization f things or you affet Supply&Demand?
@@slevinchannel7589 You sound like the kinda person who thinks vilent games will make people into killers.
@@TrixyTrixter Wowwww, someone doesnt know that Art has as its 'entie whole Point' to 'affect people'. Woowwww.
Mannn, imagine being THIS ARROGANT when you have such bigbrain brainrot arguments like 'Its fiction, so how can anyoen criticize ANything about ittt, huuhh? CHECKMATEEE'
What an arrogenceeedripping cmmmment, wowww
Imagine being blocked after your first-words to a stranger (onine)
Now you sound as if you are having a stroke.
This is a great video that covers nearly all aspects to watching things deemed problematic. I especially love how you mentioned shows "buying" their triggering elements by allowing it to carry the story and themes one step further. Gushing Over magical Girls is an excellent example of this because it begins with the premise of a villain assaulting these heroes regularly and also they are all canonically 14. And then it takes it further, in a way I've only seen talked about in like, Madoka Magica.
But, anyway, good analysis, I miss your editing for these types of videos, only create as much as you are inspired to, and godspeed Mr. Point!
Gushing over Magical Girl is FAR from the first series that's main focus is being lewd. We have them here and there but they were CONSTANT in the early 2000s. To Love Ru and DXD are very popular ideas and yes, they have actual plot to them but they are first and foremost, ecchi, just like Gushing.
Your statement here was just entirely wrong.
A lot of those aren't as explicit most of the time though, tbf
Interspecies reviewers is an outlier though, and he is in fact incorrect regardless
@@tomykong2915 That's just wrong. Both I mentioned had nudity each episode at least once, much like Gushing. A lot of shows of the early 2000s did.
@@upg5147 ok, guess it has been a long ass time, my b
@@tomykong2915 If not every, most.
All I'm really saying is Gushing is not some new "low" the anime community has hit as far as degen or ecchi is considered. We hit that many years ago....
@@upg5147 it is the first to be this widely known in the community in awhile, and the community is much more mainstream than it was back then, so that's an even bigger difference
I find this video morally reprehensible, but I enjoy it.