California's unexpected energy challenge: too much solar
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
- As California works toward its ambitious clean energy vision, an almost counterintuitive challenge has emerged: The state is, at times, generating more solar energy than it can handle. It’s to the point where loads of clean energy are going to waste. NBC News' Liz Kreutz reports.
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#California #SolarEnergy #CleanEnergy
It’s not too much solar. It’s the lack of sustainable storage at both the individual and market level.
Over using electric. Humans are so extremely.
It's the lack of energy that can be extracted from sun rays even across a field: If the sun was powerful enough to power entire homes from rays reaching the ground, this planet would literally be Venus and everything on it burnt to a crisp.
@@freespeech9059
Um...No.
Storing hugh amounts of electricity from environmental energy is harder then a battery bank you charge your phone off.
Nuclear is the best option to transition.
As one rod equals 100years of clean energy for the average house.
With most waste being repurposed or reused in more efficient reactors.
or the lack of willingness to bring back the industry that China or India run using coal
@@dawsonholdsworth5371 no creating battery storage is far easier, faster and cheaper to implement. To get that one nuclear rod of energy you will need 6 to 8 years to build a nuclear power plant. Australia China and Europe have made massive progress in just the last year in renewable power generation and storage.
Free energy is bad for greedy energy companies
It’s bad for everybody if it puts economic strain on other sources of energy production that are needed during times of no or little sunlight
@@AgtsmirnoffThat's what batteries are for. We should just subsidise batteries instead of fossil fuels. Problem solved.
@@peopleofearth6250 batteries don’t have the capacity right now to handle all the electricity needs, not to mention the environmental damage of mining lithium and other rare earth metals to make them. Smarter option would be to invest in nuclear, but that’s too manly of a technology for the low testosterone people of California
@@peopleofearth6250 but if you knew anything, you would know that Australia tried this very same strategy with solar and batteries, and it failed spectacularly because it’s too expensive and batteries cannot hold enough charge to make them a viable option en masse
The private equity solar companies make lots of money. It's electricity custoemrs that get charged enormous prices.
Let's be clear... no one is throwing away solar rays. The reporter is oversimplifying this to the point that is makes no sense.
Then you'd be surprised that California actually pays neighboring states to take solar electricity from California every day until 8 am when the California economy wakes up
funny how the guy from ISO desperately avoids to let her have the term, but she doubles down. It's all about the vocabulary.
@@ginsugray5469 it’s not difficult to understand the reporter’s statement. Energy is being produced and not used because of insufficient storage capability. Sorta defines poor planning, doncha think?
@@user-fd1mv8dl9q - no I think the original poster is correct. To be clear, power generated by solar is being used by homes and businesses first so that power is not needed to generated and solar rays will be there used or not. The way the reporter makes it sound solar power has a consequence which isn't really true unless the goal optimal efficiency, therefore solar rays and energy created by them are lost. If the goal was a slow down on the use of natural gas to produce electricity then it isn't a problem but a solution.
not the solar rays but the money that were spent on the panels to just do nothing when there is sun. They anyway do nothing when there is no sun so, in fact those panels are bought just to signal the virtue because they produce nothing.
Then install battery storage. We’re heading into an era of renewable abundance
Yes. It's only up now showing because we've had excellent snow fall the past couple of years. So the reporter is reporting that some of the solar panel power sources aren't being utilized. The hydro-power generators have been good the last couple of years. Go back a few years during the drought we were always having threats of brown outs happening. Even right now with the high temperatures we've been having there hasn't been much talk of brown outs because everything is clicking. Look at Texas they're having problems right now with the high temperatures.
No we’re not
@@frootlooper yes we are
Sodium Ion batteries are going to revolutionise energy storage.
You really could have taken a different angle on this story. Very disappointing.
right? i thought it was THE dumbest take on surplus renewable energy. whatever shall we do? go back to coal!??!?!! whoever wrote this segment should be fired.
100 percent. I get that there’s a problem, but she made it sound like surplus solar energy was clogging up the sewer systems or something. The only real obstruction is political - unless there’s something I missed. Poorly framed story either way.
Yeah. Sounded like a hit piece. We're wasting money by not using this energy and oh look, we're also losing jobs. Should be celebrating that you've installed that much solar, the government decided to stop wasting tax dollars, and encouraging home storage.
Lol, you got a quarrel with this? Then have you seen any "free world" headlines on China?
Facts!!
Completely wrong. Not enough storage capacity.
Storing electricity is extremely inefficient
@@Anjays In what way?
@@Anjays I don't see how 0 energy storage is better than inefficient energy storage.
@@rebeltheharem7028
That's like saying driving 2 hours to work is better than not working.
There has be a valuable enough return to make it worth the investment.
It's like 1:4 ratio of energy stored and energy released.
I do agree with the idea of at least moving forward.
Not enough transmission line capacity. It easily could be used elsewhere.
This video doesn't make ANY sense - isn't the point to have more energy than you need?
Exactly. It's raining and I am not thirsty. Water Is Being Wasted!!!
It's California. That's why you don't vote Democrat. Nema 2.0 made a lot of solar companies go under.
😂
@@user-ld7vk9bj6m the rain is free but the panels are not
Supply of and demand for electricity need to match to keep the grid stable.
That’s a good news. Without the panels, the sunlight will be put to waste anyway 😂
Lol exactly, makes no sense.
Exactly, this video is brain dead
So its a storage problem. Solve that in parallel
The solar companies should have to install their own storage rather than drive up electricity prices.
Wait until the battery fires caused by "climate change"
The problem is already solved.
Just need a huge investment to implement it.
That's what non-woke people have been trying to say for years. The woke just won't have anything to do with facts.
Exactly
if it's so abundant, why is the price of electicity not going down?
Fun fact, the electricity companies are actually losing money so they're going to start charging a flat fee whether you use electricity or not or whether you save electricity or not.😊
@@theforestisdark9676 at that point best to just disconnect if you have your own battery bank.
Capitalism
The price you pay is a monthly average of the instantaneous price. So it includes the times when prices are negative, but also the times when prices spike (right after sunset every day).
@@spacegodfightPG&E is basically a government run SOE ar this point. This isn't capitalism at all.
Why not just throw the excess into desalination?
I thought of this as well. Did some rough math and found that you could desalinate about 171.7 billion gallons of water with the "thrown away" electricity, assuming about 4,000 kWh per cubic meter of water. Looking at an LA times article from 2022, LA sold about 14 billion gallons of water in August that year. Multiply by 12, and you have about 169 billion gallons of water consumed by the city in a year. Assuming California will throw away a similar amount of electricity for the rest of the year, this power could eliminate the need for ground/river water of two major cities.
Simply-- they don't have an extra desalination plant built yet to take the capacity.
Running a brand new desalination plant only four or five hours per day is an absolute non starter.
The investment, and the income possible from selling the clean water...no one would build it with those sort of restrictions. The real answer is affordable electricity storage.
@@docwatson1134 That's a good point, I was just curious on how the math worked out. The easiest solution would be some sort of energy storage, whether that be battery, synthetic natural gas, pumped hydro, or whatever other energy storage method of choice.
@@ronkorn8454: Desalination is a Garbage idea, existing water canals are cleaner and Much cheaper .
Added a bunch of panels at my house and added a battery backup. Its the only way to do it. Looking to get a power wall
I can help you with that I just installed a powerwall 3 recently
Might with you in the future. Thanks
@@winchestersons6258 sounds good. Btw nice 71 super on your page, did you get it restored? 73 beetle with a 1915 here🙌
Why are our PG&E electrical bills so high?
Cause the CEO's pay went through the roof.
Because the state determined they were too big to fail, and instead of paying for the destruction of Paradise themselves, they get to pass the costs on to us through rate hikes.
Bc you liberal clowns passed legislation that phased out coal and nuclear energy sources as options which leaves only natural gas as a greater than 50% market share for energy supply. So this means you electric bill is directly linked to the cost of natural gas which became exportable through liquid natural gas. So now natural gas is more susceptible to global economic forces. In other words, if the price of natural gas is high on the global market then your electricity bill will cost you more. See how economics all works? It’s why you have to do your due diligence when voting and why progressive politicians love to sell their constituents on single phrase concepts like “corporate greed” when the answer is more complex…
@@heyaisdabomb Yup, an ungodly amount… what was it, 52 million? Or 31 million.
One thing about wind and solar is you pay most of the costs up front. Most of the cost of a fossil fuel plant is fuel that you pay for as you use it.
I'm confused. They never mentioned what the actual problem was with having too much solar.
@@jackwindensky5606 same. The sun is giving us this energy regardless of the panels, right? lol
Because he would have said incorrect information on camera and he would have received emails and calls back on his data.
I imagine heat is the problem.
Try pushing 10,000 gallons of water through a garden hose in a minute and see what happens to the hose. Same thing with electricity and the wires used to distribute that power. If solar provides too much power to the grid, wires will melt.
@@ace25805 That's not really the problem. Voltage is the pressure, and there must be a certain voltage maintained. Too much voltage would damage devices across the grid. It could also affect the frequency, thereby causing damage or other unforeseen issues.
I really feel like this is a really SIMPLE fix 😂😂😂.... more energy storage facilities duh
Fun fact: hydro power is basically a giant battery, since they can release more or less water as power is needed. It's also clean solar energy and renewable.
Alert the media! /s
This is what battery back up is for.
Paid for by the home owner. While still paying grid connection fees that are doubling next year and will increase more. Unless your off grid. And the making and then disposing of batteries is not green. So which is it. Is California green or brown like sheit...
@@ridemfast7625 - No, many solar and wind facilities have large, industrial-sized battery storage. Batteries are lasting longer than expected, and are recyclable.
@@davidrandall2742 HAHAHA Sure... As if no theirs pollutants and mining involved and China has an EPA or other govt regulations...
@@ridemfast7625 - Next to the military, the biggest use of cobalt and rare earth metals is for catalysts in the oil-refining process, and has been for decades; the mines didn't start for batteries.
Engineers - " we curtail the energy production" . Media -okay so it is wasted ? Makes news out of it.
The media is accurately translating issue I believe.
The conventional plants have to be on standby anyway. Solar shouldn't be guaranteed profits with curtailment contracts.
Curtailing energy is good for profits… …bad when you have a polar vortex that makes everyone who uses that grid to suddenly need much more, only there’s not even enough to keep the power plants going. I’m looking at you ERCOT!
Well... with regular symmer brown outs and requests to not use your A/C... yeah it's an issue.
Instead of curtailing the clean energy from solar how about curtailing the hydro and thermo plants that cost money to operate
In Australia now.
We were told to get solar, then we got paid for adding power to the grid .
Now in Sydney , you’ll get fined for putting power into the grid in peak producing hours …
You can’t win it …
Can you automate the process of cutting off feed into the grid whenever it'd lead to you being penalised?
@@MuzzaHukka not sure , it’s a great idea .
Too much energy should mean cheaper energy for California.
sell it to data centers...they are power hungry
So is AI and bitcoin
That is not how it works. Energyproduction has to meet demand every millisecond.
@@triage2962I call BS on that
@@m-m-9000 That is how it works you can inform yourself.
@@triage2962 did you not see the battery storage boxes right there in the video? do you not know that you can have a battery installed in your basement or garage and go 100% solar from spring through fall in most of the US but especially the west coast and south.
Outdated infrastructure because energy companies are too cheap to update and innovate. Grid upkeep should be mandated and regulated.
I'll give you an opportunity to expound on that thought first.
You are wrong, regulated, investor-owned utility companies generally, only make their profits by investing in new or replacement plant assets. In theory, the actual cost to produce and deliver electricity (operation & maintenance expense) is a pass through at cost. A component of the rate structure billed to customers for use, in addition to operation & maintenance expense, is the Return-on-Investment component which gives the utility the opportunity to earn a regulatory-set % return on the amounts invested (by shareholders) in utility plant.
Non-regulated, like government owned, is a different story. They may not be as willing to invest in new or replacement infrastructure
Luckily I have a power storage solution at home and run off the batteries when they’re charged by the solar panels.
To sum it up: they need to continue to deploy LFP battery banks, ASAP. These are cheap, very long lasting, don't need precious metals and very safe. The ones for EV's are rapidly evolving for energy density but regular old LFP can be a great cost effective storage solution. CA and TX have already alleviated the worst parts of their grid issues with them, funny how the news reports only the negative side for clicks!
Unexpected? I thought it was obvious. When I installed my solar, I told them to put half of the panels facing east and half of them facing west, because I knew one or the other could become more valuable once more people had solar. PG&E was paying more for afternoon Solar, but there was no guarantee that that would always be true. Someday the governor will get on the radio and tell everyone to turn on the air conditioner. Instead of brown outs we’ll have excess. Having panels on my roof also shade the roof and reduces heat inside. I don’t actually have air-conditioning. I don’t think the popular kids are really capable of doing science or managing money or engineering a better world.
All these articles about how AI uses so much energy... And this is a problem. Well, extra energy can be used for that and the batteries will create a new game. Can't believe the negativity here
Good tip, half facing west half east. Ty
I felt it was too.
We've had solar panel technology for at least 30 years. But we need the overcapacity today so we can decarbonize more things in the future, like TV watching when the sun goes down in December or daily commuting.
Actually South provides the most production. PGE gives credits on production and those credits are applied at anytime day or night. It does not matter what the rates are because the credits apply them same and are not rate based.
@@HHSGDFootballJPD
The excess solar energy can be used to capture and sequester carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
This video is misleading. It’s actually a good thing, it shows the success of solar farms.
For once. A good problem California has.
Not a good problem.
What? Not at all. This means millions, if not billions, in improper investment.
@@mtb416 Finding a use for excess clean energy is better than the plethera of other issues california suffers from. Where have you been?
If thats true then why are we still having so many blackouts?
@@PCRyder Just because you perceive a particular issue as less important than any other does not make it a "good problem" In fact no problems are considered to be good.
Nice try but you would be better off simply deleting your ignorant comment than making pathetic excuses that don't make sense.
This segment feels like it was written by the oil, gas and coal industries lol
“We’re not making enough profits!- ban solar” - that guy
Too much solar electricity generation and sky high electric bills. Frustrating.
What is worse is that PG&E will take that free excess solar energy that came off someones roof and PAY Arizona to take it from California "to protect the grid". Not only are Calfornians paying outragous electric bills, they also subsidize powering other states. From LA Times "California invested heavily in solar power. Now there's so much that other states are sometimes paid to take it. On 14 days during March, Arizona utilities got a gift from California: free solar power. Well, actually better than free. California produced so much solar power on those days that it paid Arizona to take excess electricity its residents weren’t using to avoid overloading its own power lines."
The former caused the latter.
I wonder if you can figure out why that is....
Hint, baseload generators like coal, take a week or so to fire up.
@@petert3355 Because the coal and gas power stations have to sit at low load or with fires banked and boilers steaming waiting for a cloud to pass over, even during peak renewables production. So you have to pay for electricity twice, even when you don't need it due to curtailment contracts.
@gregorymalchuk272 and that people is exactly the right answer.
Fuel costs for the solar backup are 24/7, but income from that fuel expended is not.
Makes things expensive.
Transfer it to battery storage until it needs to be used during the hours that it is needed.
That's what they are doing. New batteries are being added like crazy.
That way all the small environmental gains can be nullified by batteries! Use nuclear power.
@@romanboi3115 A new nuclear plant takes 10-15 years to build and nobody wants it near their home. A new solar installation can be built in a fraction of the time in almost any open space. Fossil fuels are causing damage here and NOW while tyrants hold the world hostage with their oil reserves. No solution is perfect, but new battery tech will eventually let batteries be made with better materials for less money. Something like sodium batteries may be a good match for large grid storage.
@@romanboi3115 Nuclear not cost effective
@@johnsutherland7561 Neither is "Green" Energy, its only built because the government offsets the cost with subsidies. Nuclear is better in every regard and dosent require millions of unrecyclable lithium batteries
Amazing how there's too much energy to go around but the price keeps going up.
Remember to defraud your local power company folks.
Nope, not too much solar, not enough EVs on the road, and not enough battery storage. That's need to be fixed ASAP!!
I rather have too much energy rather than not enough energy.
My guess is they should lower the price of energy so people would use more of it.
You pay for the energy you DON'T use when you have too much energy. You don't understand curtailment.
If you’re going to come to ca and visit the rich areas only … please do a complete story so far this year we had no rolling black outs , that was no where in the story . don’t spin the story in a fully negative way . Please report the truth . Thank you .
This has nothing to do with rolling black outs. The rolling black outs were caused by lack of power generation. At that time, power generation was entirely natural gas. When they brought more natural gas plants online, the problem was solved. Solar wasn't a thing until later, made possible through cheaper solar panels.
Don't count on corporate media reporting the truth.
The one rolling brown out they had last year in the Bay Area, they determined AFTER that it wasn't needed and done in error.
So a win to you is PGE with Democrat controlled California/Newscum and corrupt CPUC providing the service we pay for and not eF'in up... smh
We haven't had any rolling black outs. Look at the recent high temperatures across the state. There's no talk about brown outs. There have been power shut downs for a few areas due to wild fire danger. Right now everything is clicking. It was during the drought years is when we had threats of brown outs since there wasn't enough water to run a few of the hydro powered generators.
Store Solar Power in Electric Cars. Cheap Electric Cars made in China solve the problem.
It’s not too much solar it’s not enough batteries
There should’ve been incentives for battery packs in conjunction with solar panels
There are, just sometimes hard to get.
Make solar companies install the batteries.
There is a 30% federal tax credit for home batteries. And the solar companies are in the business of installing them. Just ask. Make them happy.
There technically was, but it had a MAJOR gatchya to it. If you took their $1200~ cash rebate for installing a battery you were forced to be on a plan that pays you out really bad rates for having solar, and if you want to switch off that terrible plan within 5 years to actually get your investment back then you owed the CPUC their money rebate back.
@@danielcarroll3358 The government shouldn't be subsidizing this energy-negative nightmare.
The only problem is oil companies can’t profit from this excess energy.
But hydrogen producing companies could.
You know the bottom line is that we’d rather have houses using our power rather than the solar power.
First there wasn't enough now there's too much. Wanted everyone to get solar but now don't want people to get solar.
So we have the power, but we need storage. They first complained there wasn't enough energy for EV's and now theyre saying this lol
Most people charge their EVs at night when rates are cheapest, so technically there still isn't enough solar power to charge EVs if every vehicle in California was electric due to lack of grid storage. The few grid storage batteries Calfornia has invested in have had some serious issues, so much so that cities are voting no on allowing new grid storage batteries in their city. We need better and safer batteries for grid storage before it will be widely accepted. Lithium is not the answer.
Who is they?
@@ace25805Are they cheapest at night? I don’t think so anymore, not in California. That was before solar. Now during the day most people are at work and a lot of solar power is going unused.
@@trentgay3437 the DOE
@ace25805 idk who told you this, but they lied to you. Energy demand is highest in the evening.
Only under Capitalism is free energy a problem.
But it's not free.. someone must maintain the power lines. There are hundreds if not thousands of other jobs that must be performed to keep the power grid running.
It's only from problems that opportunities, like harvesting that free energy, arise. Pointing out those problems is not a bad thing, nor is it a flaw of capitalism.
@@agisler87 they already have the powerlines and infrastructure to maintain them. We the customers who installed solar provide them with energy energy, and they buy it from us for pennies on the dollar compared to what they sell it back to people who don’t have solar for. Yeah it wasn’t free. I put solar on my roof and PG&E screws me.
NOT , nearly enough GRID battery storage.
problem FIXED .
I think you mean physics.
Energy storage of solar or wind reduces the produced amount by alot.
Best way to get it to work is by water reservoirs that release and generate Hydro power on off producing hours.
This isn't capitalism fault.
It's A to D policy that forgets about transition first before going fully cold turkey.
Having too much clean energy is a good problem to have.
Also, shouldn't this result in lower energy costs/prices? :)
There's enough extra energy in CA that we can power San Francisco for a year but everyone is still paying crazy rates for electricity? 🤔
SCAM
The issue is when that energy is produced. Without some way to store it if it cannot be used at that second it is waste. That is why batteries or other storage solutions are critical.
And PG&E still charges 50c/kwh …. Greeds
its actually .50-.65 now
Seriously? In Germany I pay 0.36 USD/kWh (plus fixed 11USD/month) and some politicians claim, that we have the highest electricty rates in the world due to the energy transformation.
I have seen some edison rates get up go .72 cents
Due to Texas's weird but effective market based options for many users, I buy 100% renewable electricity for just under 15 cents kw/hr. The cost is almost exactly evenly split between the cost of the electricity itself and the other half for the grid operations. Why it would cost PB&E over three times that to deliver electricity is strange.
It would be more accurate to compare costs of LA's DWP because it is non-profit. They have a history of doing what is right for the customer and not for share holders. Think Enron and PG&E several decades ago.
Solar and batteries meant our bill went from $400/mo. to $10/mo. Essentially, we pay only the grid connection fee.
The problem isn't too much solar power. The problem is that there are not yet enough batteries to store that extra energy.
Then the solar companies should be forced to install the batteries.
Fortunately, the 30% federal tax credit has been extended to batteries, at least until 2030. NEM 3.0 certainly encourages it. I am under NEM 2.0 as my solar was installed several years ago and can use the grid as a battery. From 3 to 9 pm power costs more, so, since I don't yet have batteries, I lower the water heater temp 5 degrees during that time so it won't run. I'm watching battery tech development carefully to see when to add batteries.
The difference between the two NEM types is that NEM 2.0 is averaged over the whole year and NEM 3.0 is averaged over six minute periods. In both types if you produce more (in that period) you earn wholesale rate. If you use more you pay retail. I earn a couple of hundred dollars per year for my excess of 2,000 kW-hr.
Batteries are EXTREMELY expensive.
If batteries were economically viable- they'd be great for conventional power also. You could build a much smaller plant that didn't have to handle peak loads directly. Simply store power generated during low demand in a magic box and release it when needed. It doesn't work and it never will.
@@user-jb2om7cm8m In the past, battery storage on a large scale would have been far too expensive to be practical, but that has changed. The cost and efficiency of battery storage on a large scale has dropped dramatically, and large-scale battery use is now being used around the world more and more every day. Take a look at Australia and their use of batteries. China is another great example, and yes, even here in the US it is becoming more common BECAUSE IT WORKS. Billions of dollars are being invested in batteries. I even have one in my home.
So California ONLY uses solar for power? Or do they shut down all other sources. Like wind and hydro, before “throwing away” solar energy. 🤔
No Solar is just a part of the mix. It is getting to be more and more which is why there is a need for more storage.
I wonder how much it cost to figure out people don't use electricity when not at home
So if they are over producing, there should be no issue to up fit our power grid… batteries are the way, I added one and it made a huge difference in my usage vs production.
Can Texas have some of this? We're always losing power. Good on you California for all the clean energy and showing the world how efficient it is. It's so good that you have too much.
Texas has an independent grid and it works great. With the exception of the 2021 snow-pocalypse, and the occasional severe thunderstorm, Texas has very reliable energy.
And at half the cost per kwh as California, this seems like a grass is always greener situation.
Texas produces nearly twice as much energy as it uses, and prices are kept low through deregulation on the independent grid system.
California has had summer capacity induced blackouts for several years now.
@@gregorymalchuk272 I just googled the California blackouts. Sorry this is something you’re all dealing with. I’m a fan of clean energy so I hope this all gets figured out soon.
@@gregorymalchuk272 We haven't had capacity induced blackouts for a few years. There are blackouts to prevent fires though. Those are being reduced as local emergency generators and underground power lines are extended by the power companies. When it gets real hot there are sometimes requests to reduce power use in the late afternoon and early evening. People are pretty good about that, especially as the rates are higher then.
Texas made a decision to disconnect from the 3 nationwide grids. So they cannot get power from elsewhere unlike the rest of the country. Speak to you legislator about that or vote them out.
We pay 50 cent a KW in San Diego and there's a surplus of power? What happened to supply and demand? They never should have all but banned home install of solar as well, that hasn't helped either.
Solar power generation should always come with battery storage…. I’m surprised solar companies only sell 1/2 a product…
And this is a problem how? Non story. This is a good thing in my mind.
Build more storage centers
There technically isn't a reasonable way to do that without reasonable costs across the state e.g. taxes building infrastructure and time lapse , it shoulda been planned for years ago
Good luck
I just watched some story about this exact thing happening in Australia, except they've started charging people that produce too much energy with their solar lol.
What storage centers? We're talking about homes, those aren't flashlights you can power off batteries... what the heck is wrong with today's world 😂
Why don't you build the storage centers? Instead of trying to boss other people.
It isn't too much solar, the panels are facing the wrong direction. They need to be pointed at the sun at 5 pm.
Too much electricity then lower the price and customer will use up the excess
Complete BS
Then no one should be paying for energy.
How will PG&E pay their shareholders then?
You would think that variable pricing for users would help alleviate the problem - if you had negative pricing for electricity then I'm sure a lot of companies and individuals would consume more, given the opportunity.
@@user-fm6ns5nb4j
Negative rates have been tried before.
The problems other places have tried come from the kilowatt hour cost.
Either the government sets the price too high and people farm overpriced solar. Or the rate is too low, and no one wants to invest and maintain a grid.
Look up curtailment contracts and actually learn something. Renewables overproduction=high electricity prices.
@@user-fm6ns5nb4j
Negative rates have been tried before.
The problems other places have tried come from the kilowatt hour cost.
Either the government sets the price too high and people farm overpriced solar. Or the rate is too low, and no one wants to invest and maintain a grid.
What’s the big deal if some solar energy is wasted under “extreme conditions”? That’s still more people getting energy from solar and not wasting any for the overwhelming majority of the time! And it was essentially free to produce anyway. Given the urgency of climate change I’m not sure you can afford to be so picky. This is some really unfortunate reporting.
Because ratepayers have to pay for the wasted electricity due to renewables curtailment contracts.
Normal people: "you mean, throwing it away..."
Businessmen/bureaucrats: "we say sending dispatch instructions"
😂😂😂
It can exported to neighboring states
You can use it to charge your EV
HVAC systems don’t stop when you leave your home
they need to install battery energy storage so it can be used at night
Many solutions. Don’t like how the media portrays this as an issue
well its more of an infrastructure problem, not really a demand issue. Not enough capacity to move power to where its need and not enough capacity to store it. Ireland had a similar issue couple years back where overproduction was causing issues with the power grid itself, and they fixed it by limiting new solar installation while at the same time they upgraded sections of their power grid so that solar can be better utilized. So more wires, and substations along side expanding power storage should do the trick. Not to mention improve the state's ability to export that energy as well with upgrades to the power grid which is also likely being limited by the current state of the power grid.
Interesting. Why is energy still expensive?
Because it isnt nuclear, and its only "affordable" Because of the government subsidies
I'm confused. Is there anything negative thats happens as a result of the power not being used? I watched the whole video and I still don't see a newsworthy problem.
Isn’t this the state with frequent rolling blackouts?
I have Over 20 years in California, I only remember 1 time without power that is worth mentioning, I don't remember exactly but I think it was for around 5 hours
But PG&E is still raising rates
If only there were a company creating an enormous amount of energy storage that you could invest in.
Exactly Tesla
I got mine, TSLA all the way baby.
Elon Musk is not one of the darlings of the left so they shut him out of installing more mega batteries. Newsom is waiting on his China buddies to come up with a viable alternative!
Why not force solar companies to DO that rather than dumping the cost of firming onto the grid as a negative externality.
TSLA. Megapack 🔋🔋🔋🔋🔋🔋🔋😉
In India, we pump water into a high reservoir when you need to store energy. Or you could heat Salt/Metals and use the heat for power generation later.
Hydro batteries require a fairly specific topography and also an plenty of storable water, neither of which California really has. I think there are a number of decent technologies for storage like molten salt or possibly even hydrolysis, but they're costly to operate at the scale at which California is curtailing energy. These developments will hopefully come in the next decade, but right now battery storage is the most likely avenue.
California should build a bunch of water desalination plants and power them during those times
Why don't you give it to Oregon, Nevada and other neighboring states? Start bringing it east...work forward
Not possible because it is overproduction so nobody needs it.
Transmission lines
@@kennethnelson4109 I kinda understand but I work for Georgia power and we also serve Alabama
Why don't they store the reserve power in batteries?
Batteries not included.
Solar private equity should pay for it.
@@ninjanerdstudent6937
Because the size and cost to create and maintain would Ballon the price. And just make other forms of energy product more desirable
They do, but you need lots more batteries, or pumped hydro if you have two reservoirs near each other with a large elevation difference. California has both, but needs more.
Batteries and Energy Storage Solutions Please.
They left out the part that fossil fuel plants take up to 24 hours to spin up. So even when solar is accounting for 100% of energy generation they are still burning fossil fuels to keep the plants up for when solar goes away, like at night. So those plants are still having to run 24-7
Good. Now find storage!
Can solar panels not be turned off for a brief period of time during the middle of the day???
Yes it can be switched off, in Australia new solar inverters can be switched off remotely by grid operators, now more people are setting up their batteries to charge during day as feed in terrif is reduced to 3 cents per Kwh, and they charge 42cents per kwh, total rip off
I don't think so, but then again you could just cover them so the sun won't touch em.
thats a pretty DUMB thing to do .
BEST solution is GRID battery Storage .
@@EhCloserLook You have to manage your energy throughout the day/night. Canada would be needing more heat than Texas or Florida. Some places are off grid. It is a learning experience, no one can tell you exactly. It's not a perfect science.
Yes, but contracturally they can't be turned off. Renewables companies demand curtailment contracts which guarantees payment for all electricity produced regardless of electricity demand. So you pay double for electricity during these periods.
Right, cut the incentives for people being able to harness free power from the sun.
So basically you will have to charge your EV in the day time
since when did anybody go "ohhh nooo we have TOO much free energy!!"... oh wait, the oil industry
Solar private equity is profiting handsomely.
Can’t California use the energy to mine Bitcoin and make some money $$$$. ?
To much , not enough? Make up your mind.
Where are the people who said this would never happen? They are the same people saying more energy is bad.
All progression has drawbacks. It's the price of POSITIVE CHANGE.
Hook, line and sinker 🐑 , ⛽️⚡️ no free rides
It's all in the name of the greater good. 🤡
The program worked, so naturally they take it away. That's government for ya.
Yes, artificially lowering the price of anything will increase the demand. This often hurts the poor and only makes wealthier people richer.
More like it worked, but now their is excess, so now they have to build more storage centers because they’re creating a lot of energy and for the time being, those ince tubes are reduced to reduce wasted energy 🤷🏽♂️
Next time include the context buddy, instead of being disingenuous 😉 @joenobody5631
More like it worked, but now they have to create more storage centers, in the meantime taking away those incentives 🤷🏽♂️
Next time add the context buddy, or else you look disingenuous 😉 @joenobody5631😊
I have solar and batteries, plus an electric car, I have places to dump my extra solar energy. Its a Win Win
this seems like such a massive waste as well as a missed opportunity. Washington State native here - my understanding has been that California has long bought a fair amount of our electricity generated off the dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. It seems like this would be an opportunity for California to decrease its dependence on Hydropower, or perhaps to even make agreements with other states like Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Wyoming, Texas or whatnot to sell excess electricity to other states. Texas has had several times in the past few years where they have not had enough electricity. and from what I understand most of Texas' electrical generation comes from coal or natural gas power plants. but I could be mistaken. ***PS. Good Job Neighbors! I had no idea that y'all had developed that much alternative energy infrastructure I find that to be truly Impressive and Inspiring. I hope that continues!
I live in a two-bedroom condo in Southern California. I work from home so air conditioning is on a lot of the time during the summer. My electricity bills goes over $500 for at least 3 months, maybe more. Why don't the reduce my cost when running it during the day. Instead, the cost goes up in increments.
well depends on the power company (which if its Edison or PG&E your likely paying for the company lost its lawsuits that total up to roughly a billion in damages that the companies passed on to you the consumer), and if there enough capacity to transfer all the excess energy to places that need it (which is likely the infrastructure is likely kneecapped and need in upgrades)
it can exported to others states or even country like canada.
We have enough, send it to other states lol
Canada? More likely Mexico, as that's much closer.
There is energy loss in transmission lines. They aren’t made of superconductors, so you actually can’t just send electricity thousands of miles effectively.
When you get a bunch of these stories across the media where they do ridiculous things like "So you're saying you have to throw away the energy" it's pretty clear what's going on here.
This is what happens when interns with no actual understanding of the situation write the news
At peak hours there is more power than can be used; but that wouldn't be a problem if California had batteries to store it - they don't. They don't because there isn't enough lithium refined to make even close to enough batteries to power LA if you devoted ever ounce produced for 200 years. This is the critical fail point of Solar and Wind; they are peaky; they do not work most of the time; and if you can't store excess energy; it is wasted: then you have to revert to other eneryg sources for most of the day. The lack of sufficient cheap safe storage of energy is the achillies heal of the Solar/Wind dream.
Leave it to California to snatch defeat out of the hands of victory.
How are they “defeated” here exactly? 🤔
They should capture co2 from atmosphere and make synthetic jet fuel using that energy.
When there is an energy "dump"-Why arent all consumers alerted that this is the exact time,power is the cheapest it can ever be?
Too much solar or not enough intelligence? You decide.
Lots intelligent people creating Energy Wealth. That's what your brainwashing doesn't allow you to think. You want everyone to be energy poor.
Interesting that they only mention batteries as an electricity storage solution. Do Californian homes have hot water tanks or are they a thing of the past? The excess solar can be used to heat the water and store it for when it’s needed. In the UK a lot of homes have transitioned away from hot water tanks but we will need then again.
I thought California was in a heat wave
Only when it is useful for their narrative
Hey NBC, here's an idea:
All the EVs are an energy storage resource. They're parked at work during the day. Guess what, if the utilities had any brains they would create infrastructure so that customers could charge their vehicles while at work, and the charging could be throttled back on hot days when lots of ACs are running.
But noOOOoooOOOOooo, you gotta try a hit piece on solar to see if it generates web hits. Shame.
What I can’t comprehend is the duck curve was absolutely predictable, but no one thought of taking care of it. Now solar is basically wasted, requiring additional investment in storage.
The lip service for green energy in general is hilarious. People that aren't in the industry or don't have renewables just hear what mainstream media says about it. But in reality it is just that lip service, the policies that California has disencentvise the public to purchase solar. In time of day use and non 1 to 1 net metering areas you need batteries which drive up prices significantly. Sure there is a 30% income tax credit but that doesnt bring down the price immediately, and some such as the elderly have low income so that 30% has to get spread out over many years.
Unsurprisingly it's all about the money, green energy and the good of the people and environment take a back seat to profits.
How could the government incentivise people to go solar? Provide 0% interest loans to home owners, only give those loans to white listed installers trained properly installing whitelisted equipment. Enforce and mandate 1 to 1 net metering, and give significant subsidies for batteries to the grid operators and home users for installing batteries. Do NOT mandate green energy goals that come at the expense of deincentivising citizens to get solar.
You're telling me that California cannot find a good use of that excess energy?
I have a solar panel on the roof of my van. I'm homeless and it's what I rely on for electricity. It works better in off-grid situations like mine. Nothing goes to waste.