Technically, a creature with pack tactics that goes first in the turn order can move up to an enemy and ready an action to attack when a friendly creature becomes adjacent to the target. That way you can always attack with advantage.
@@coreyalbion9192 I don't understand why a creature with an ability can't think how to use it, wolves aren't sacks of flesh with rocks for brains, they can think and feel and understand things. Intelligence doesn't stop at is it humanoid or something. How hard is it to believe that a creature understands that it should always attack as a group because two is better than one, and monkey meme together strong.
@@notsureicare488 they are not animals they are "fey spirits in the form of animals" also I use the same tactic with my tiny servents if we play with flanking, one tiny servant moves in ready an attack 2nd tiny servant moves in to flanking position ready attack goes off with advantage.
@@LilythathappenstobeinaValley My suggestion is draft horses. Each one would weigh about 2000lbs and at CR 1/4 you could drop 8 of them on a target. Or a single CR2 Giant Elk, which is size huge.
@@brodar2232 I didn't bother to say it in the post, but I knew you'd have to get yourself up there somehow. A druid would have the easiest time after level 8, but any caster could manage it with the right spells.
I played a Shepherd Druid from 1st - 17th level. In my experience, with my DM. We worked out that the theme of my druid, is all about wolves. I could always choose wolves, but if I wanted anything else, he'd random roll 'within reason' for the area we were in. To keep my 'turns' from absolutely wrecking combat pacing, we made it so I could give control to the other players and the wolves would take their turns after each player. There were 4 players, who then had control of two pet wolves each. To me it was fun being the party pet supplier, and the party had fun because each got their own pets to command around, so I wasn't monopolizing the combat turns. It made it so my 'thematic' spell would always get me what I want, but if I wanted something else, it would be down to the natural creatures in that area.
Would love to see a druid tactics guide like the one done with low, mid, high level wizards. Love to see druid content in general. You know what? I actually just love these videos
Also, you can use Inspiring Leader on giant owls because they can understand common. This would make them the best tanks you can get with conjure animals.
@@godminnette2 The druid doesn't have to inspire them himself. "You can spend 10 minutes inspiring your companions, shoring up their resolve to fight. When you do so, choose up to six friendly creatures (which can include yourself) within 30 feet of you who can see or hear you and who can understand you. Each creature can gain temporary hit points equal to your level + your Charisma modifier. A creature can't gain temporary hit points from this feat again until it has finished a short or long rest." This is the exact wording for Inspiring Leader. Conjure Animals states that the summoned animals are friendly to you *and your companions*. It's very clear that any of your allies can inspire giant owls, because giant owls understand common. But now that Tasha's has come out, the Twilight Cleric's channel divinity blows this combination out of the water. There's nothing like giving 16 conjured animals (of any variety) 14 temporary hit points every round at 9th level.
I typically say "you can pick the beast, but I have a request (not a rule). For the ease of play, please use the CR 2 or CR 1 options. This will cause less creatures on the battlefield, and thus not slow things down too much. Additionally, it doesn't make it feel like you have half the battlefield owned by you. If you want to summon 8 wolves for a boss battle and have been mostly summoning CR 2 or 1 monsters for the least few sessions, I won't find any issue."
This is my home game fix as well. In combat, I ask that a maximum of two creatures are attacking (essentially asking for CR 1 or CR 2). Out of combat, I'm fine with summoning more, such as giant owls for an hour of flying.
I've played with eight wolves and i don't slow down play. I pre roll during other players turns and have used an Excel spreadsheet with random number generation. There are good tools online. Lots of ways to use lots of summons and still be considerate.
@@cory849 honestly same, I love summoning 8 wolves and I have 8d20s specifically for this, I designate the targets roll all 8, set aside any that miss, roll again to see if they get nat20, then roll the misses to see if they hit, it usually takes about a minute or 2 and I'm done. Less time than a spellcaster takes to search for a spell they wanna cast.
As a player I always try to use CR1/2 creatures for this exact reason; same reason I haven't played a necromancer before (though I'd love too) I will admit, my personal favourites are the Giant Wasp/Dragonfly, mainly for the flavour, but they can be very effective (the former against lumbering targets, the latter against agile targets)
I have never understood why some summoning effects have "the creature rolls its own initiative". It's needlessly complicated, just have them act on the druid's turn. Also, i have found weird that sometimes you want the creatures to roll LESS, so ghey can act right after you and before the monsters. Imagine Skeletons 19 Zombies 12 Druid 8 If the Wolf rolls lower than 8 or higher than 19, it acts straight away. If they roll like an 11, they just "lost" a turn, and will get mauled by the skeletons and zombies.
Giant owls are almost always the best option imo. - they have flyby and a ton of movement so turns are quick. - they have the strength to pick up any of the party generally, so they give you control over the entire battlefield. - some of the largest health pools for the CR means that if you need to just create a wall of flesh to slow down enemies. They do the trick.
Important on the Giant Constrictor Snake's Blindsight is actually its size. A normal medium sized PC with 10' Blindsight covers 24 squares (plus the one you are standing in I guess) while a Darkness spell can cover 36 squares. So you have to move pretty far into the spell to search it this way. A conjured snake not only gets rid of the risk of going in yourself, it covers 40 squares plus the squares it occupies. Actually bigger than a standard darkness spell, so it doesn't even have to move to cover a considerable area.
One major piece I think you missed is the damage resistances on Stench Kow. The fire, cold and poison resistance make it quite resilient to most AOE attacks. To the point that a fireball likely wont kill the 1/4 CR creature is amazing.
One addition for the Giant Bats: They have a Str of +2 and can grapple enemies and pull them into the air with half their flying speed of 60 ft per turn (or their full speed against small creatures). Especially effective with advantage from the bear totem of the shepherd druid.
Oh man, I had a Bat shaman druid in pathfinder who would do this trick with both their wildshape and their animal companion, quite terrifying at night with low visibility.
My DM made a fun and balanced custom rules for this spell. 1. I could only summon animals that my character knows about (so no dinosaurs, extremely rare beasts, etc.). 2. In the air I could summon only flying beasts and in water only swimming beasts (so no dropping cows on my enemies). 3. Outside of combat I could choose the specific type of beasts I wanted, with the described numbers and CR. 4. In combat I had to roll a WIS skill check to see if I summon what I want. On 10-19 I summoned what I wanted. On 5-9 DM got to choose what appeared, but it wasn't anything terrible. On 1-4 it was something useless, like fish on a desert. And on 20 or above I got to summon a CR3 beast. This way I had a reason to not always choose the CR1/4 option, and I often chose fewer beasts that better suited my current situation.
I would like to object that in the Clay Golem example, it's not necessarily a bad outcome if the Elks are limited in damage. If the Clay Golems want to punch through the elk and take out one each strike, that's two entire rounds in which they failed to damage the party. There was no save involved and you couldn't have done the same with Hypnotic Pattern (which the golems are immune to)
If you're not using this spell to summon puppies that obey your verbal commands to win the hearts and minds of the townsfolk, you and I are playing very, very different games.
Besides being an optimized list for players, this can be a good guide for kind hearted DMs who want to actually provide useful creatures when the spell is cast
You forgot to mention an advantage of wolves over previously mentioned options: they're size medium. This means many more of them can cluster around an enemy than large creatures can, esp if that enemy is itself large or huge, and maybe still leave room for martials.
Small tip for usability: Directing the animals as a group can make their turns surprisingly fast. Generally, attacking and moving is the only thing a conjured animal can do so you can just say "5 elks attack this monster, three attack that one" and essentially handle their turns like you do a souped-up multiattack. Especially on VTT handling a large quantity of attack rolls is not a big problem. Still, having the stat blocks ready is a must. Running the turns individually can sometimes work if the player is decisive but it quickly becomes a chore if multiple players use Conjure spells or upcast them (and Conjure Animals very much is worth upcasting). Of course, using the animals for scouting/transport also requires very little micromanagement. I would like to mention here that Giant Owls can also scout on their own due to their solid intelligence and more notably their capability of speech (Comprehend Languages helps there). While a Giant Owl cannot infiltrate a hideout or sneak in a dungeon, they can very much survey an outdoor environment and scope out landmarks at a distance.
All good points. However, as far as using the Giant Owl as a scout goes, we should keep in mind that as of Tasha's, Wild Companion allows us to summon a familiar for scouting duties ... without using up a level 3 spell slot. Also, by the time you're casting Conjure Animals, the familiar you can summon will last at least twice as long as conjured Giant Owls, and the duration only goes up from there. Let's keep in mind that many decent-or-better druid subclasses really have no good use for Wild Shape twice every short rest other than conjuring a scout ... especially at low levels. 😉 Of course, ain't nothin' stopping a ranger from using Conjure Animals this way, and conjured creatures are a bit more useful for long-range reconnaissance ...
@@morganpetros9635 What does Wild Shape have to do with Conjure Animals? I'm a 3rd level Circle of Shepherd Druid. I can Wild Shape now, but am still limited to second level spell slots. Have been sinking a lot of time into getting animal cards & stats ready for both me & my DM.
@@Karina-Loves-Andreas Then you're absolutely *WRONG.* Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, pp. 55-56, WILD COMPANION, 2nd-level druid feature. Kindly pay attention to what I'm saying and *read the material referenced* before making ignorant comments.
@@Karina-Loves-Andreas Again, kindly read the entire comment *AND THE MATERIAL REFERENCED.* The simple fact is that druids can make use of Wild Shape to cast Find Familiar and that many druid circles have no better use of Wild Shape. The fact that you can Wild shape *BEFORE* you can cast Conjure Animals just supports my argument that if you want a scout "animal," using Wild Shape is more effective than casting Conjure Animals.
Definitely talk to your DM. RAW if you ask for a single creature of CR 2 or lower, an adversarial DM can emphasize the LOWER, and give you a single CR 0 creature. But if your DM is like that, that is a big red flag.
And it is a huge red flag if a player thinks it is "cool" to bog down a game with 8 additional creatures that are added to the Initiative loop. Incredibly selfish.
@@cmckee42 Seriously? Assume a 4 char party, suddenly jumps to 12, with 8 more attack rolls, 8 more units on the map, etc..It bogs the game down in a huge way.
Really wish there were more beast and plant creatures, including high cr ones. I love the frilled deathspitter for poison turrets, it's range is 15/30 but it can blind a creature for one round.
the regular constrictor snake is notable as well since they're better than giant frogs for restraining. lower hp but higher AC higher save higher to hit higher damage.
I used to use regular constrictor snakes all the time, i just stopped because it was making combat drag on and on, and i had to keep track of which snakes were constricting which enemies, and who had advantage on their attacks as a result... just felt super messy.
The fact that you need to make a 45 minute video to help us with one spell is why I hope you're right and they change all of these types of spells into templates instead in the future.
Personally i think the spell should run like this. Once u enter a new area the dm gives the player cards with known animal option nearby and their ratings. They can gain more cards through perception and questioning. Ensure their are powerfull options in each area but not give them the strongest immediately and let them chose what they summon based on what they find. Thus the dm only has to think about whats there once, 2 u encourage role play, 3 they feel in control of the spell.
This is also one of my favorite utility/bfc spells. Need a quick escape? Giant owls grab the party. Need to travel fast? Giant Eagles. Powerful archers? Swarm them with wolves to give disadvantage or make them use an action to kill the wolves. Entangle too boring? Constrictor snakes roll to restrain every round.
Excellent overview of the options. Part of the reason the lower CR creatures are more powerful is that these spells do not consider the encounter multipliers from Chapter 3 (DMG) / Chapter 13 (basic rules) . If they had, instead of 8 CR 1/4 being equivalent to CR2 (400), they would be closer to CR 4 (1000). If a DM wants to use the multipliers, then the spell should offer 1 CR2, 2 CR 1/2, 4 CR 1/4 or 8 CR 1/8, but they would be significantly less powerful spells.
You could use a 2nd level longstrider on two giant octopi to make them more viable for multiple combats. 20-foot movement combined with 15-foot reach should be good enough for most encounters.
You could just use the rocktopus. The modified statblock forgot to add the part about removing the waterbreathing, but they can breathe on land. "This creature is a giant octopus that has evolved to live and thrive on land. It can alter its coloration to appear as a rock formation, and it tends to lurk in crevices and fissures, attacking smaller creatures that wander near. It has a walking speed of 20 feet and a climbing speed of 10 feet, loses its Hold Breath feature, and replaces its Underwater Camouflage feature with the following feature: Camouflage. The octopus has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks."
Well, I’m considering Level Up (self-named Advanced 5e DnD) for my future games. They changed higher level effect from increasing amount to increasing CR… and several other things after more detailed inspection, like removing eight creatures option. Full text of spell effect below. How much will it break the game, or it is OK change? You summon forth the spirit of a beast that takes the physical form of your choosing in unoccupied spaces you can see. Choose one of the following: • One beast of CR 2 or less • Two beasts of CR 1 or less • Three beasts of CR 1/2 or less Beasts summoned this way are allied to you and your companions. While it is within 60 feet you can use a bonus action to mentally command a summoned beast. When you command multiple beasts using this spell, you must give them all the same command. You may decide the action the beast takes and where it moves during its next turn, or you can issue a general command, such as guarding an area. If not given a command, a conjured beast only defends itself. Cast at Higher Levels. The challenge rating of beasts you can summon increases by one step for each slot level above 3rd. For example, when using a 4th-level spell slot you can summon one beast of CR 3 or less, two beasts of CR 2 or less, or three beasts of CR 1 or less.
"While it is within 60 feet you can use a *bonus action* to mentally command a summoned beast" I don't like my summon spells eating into my action economy if I summon creatures its to have better action economy, this is why I hate all of the pet options in Tasha's (wildfire druid, creation bard, battlesmith artificer) they need you to use your BA every turn wich is a pain there are so many better BA you could be doing. At least with tiny servant and animate dead you can give them standing orders before a fight so that they don't eat into your action economy during combat.
> Initiative for a group of identical creatures is rolled once, so they all act at the same time. (PHB 189) Roll initiative once for all identical creatures then they act on that initiative, that is how I read it.
Cute comments about the dangers of cows, Chris. Don't fret though...cows are called "grass puppies" for a reason! Milk cops tend to be pretty mellow and friendly to a point. Great video, Chris!
I remember an encounter with air elementals where we used the giant bats as an improvised faerie fire. We still had disadvantage on our attacks but at least we knew which squares to attack.
You missed how broken Giant Owl is. Flyby let's you dive, attack, retreat every round. Without flyby summons are locked into combat till dead, often due to area attack. Giant Owl let's you get that DPR to any target of your choice, distributed as you will. Charging animals engage peons. Flying can target the BBEG or caster, or the troll that is escaped the Frontline and is grappling the wizard. Giant bats would be locked in after they attack. Giant owls are great as they don't take up real estate and clog up battle, the real reason Dams don't like the spell. You just make 8 attack rolls, then roll damage for the ones that hit, turn after turn and everybody else didn't have to work around your fodder, like the wizard skipping over a fireball as it would cancel your spell.
I'm preparing to use this spell soon for the first time...I actually wrote off the "Deep Rothe", he's going back on the list!!🤣 But don't dis the Stench Kow-- "When Do We Use This"? Well: how about when you set up traps outside a cave, dungeon, whatever, plan ranged attacks, and need to flush your enemy out. Stench Kow is resistant to tons of stuff, so consider setting terrain on fire, etc outside the main door or cave entrance.
Just watched the collaboration with Colby, Monty and Kelly. You guys did a great job with the builds, very entertaining. Your druid should be called the velociraptor swarmkeeper.
Shoutout to Giant Crab, a worse version of the Giant Frog, except the crab has blindsight and better AC, so if you are doing any fog cloud or magical darkness shenanigans, these medium sized CR 1/8 guys can be really good at keeping the enemy in that area, they auto grapple on a hit (though they don't restrain like the frog does), their AC is 15, normally the frog makes up for this by restraining their foe and thus imposing disadvantage on attacks, but again, if you are doing darkness/fog cloud things, the enemy will already have disadvantage to attack these little guys. The Giant Crab is the go to for the shepherd druid in my game, so many fights have been won because the enemy was prone and grappled.
The spell States choose one of the following options for what appears, let's say I choose the third option. So it would read, "choose one of the following options for what appears four beasts of challenge rating 1/2 or lower." Now read it with the choice as part of the sentence. Basically replace the part that says one of the following options with the choice that it was. Choose (four beasts of challenge rating 1/2 or lower) for what appears. The spouse says you, the castor, do that not the DM. I understand if the DM wants to homebrew it but I don't think it's intended or RAW for the DM to decide. That's my two cents
Been considering doing a write up guide like this for summon greater demon, but more than happy to leave it to you to do a vid instead :p so much utility packed into that spell with the damage resists, magic resists, telepathy, various senses, various spells and abilities...etc
The rule for summoning animals and which animals they summon is very vague. When I DM and when I play (if the dm agrees with it) I pick an animal type and stick with it for all CR levels. Much like expertise on the specific animal. That completely blocks out specific CR levels and I think that helps balance it.
Jeremy Crawford's interpretation of initiative for Conjure Animals is only easily implemented in virtual tabletops like Roll20 and Foundry; running it in person is something of a nightmare. As far as how the choices of creatures to summon is concerned, I limit the spell very simply: I assume the spell is calling upon fey spirits of the natural area the Druid is in, who would, I conjecture, only take the form of animals they are familiar with; the player needs to choose animals that are found in the region they're at. I use existing Beasts as examples; Elk are only found in relatively cold, boreal regions, but large antelopes in the savannah would be fine, and if Giant Owls wouldn't normally be found in that area, another giant predatory bird certainly would, and so on. I avoid saying 'No', as much as I can - I'd much rather say 'Yes, but.' In this case, the question of 'Can I summon eight Elks there?' is answered by 'Yes, but they appear as large antelopes, not elks.'
Theoretically the plesiosaurus could be conjured into a 5ft space, squeezing, and taking the dodge action. Thats a pretty good wall for a party to escape behind.
The one thing you didn't talk about, that I would find the most interesting and useful (as a DM and as a player interested in keeping the game both fun and balanced) is how you run summons selections at your table because you feel that's what best threads the needle between fun and balance. I've tried different approaches; because sometimes you want what you want, and other times you don't really care. Totally random doesn't seem unreasonable; in that, with many spells, target(s) make their save(s) and your spell is wasted. Also, sometimes you've got a player who doesn't know, or care to know, enough about the rules to make a choice (in a timely fashion), and/or the suspense of random can be fun (chaos sorcerer). I've tried a system where each time you take a random summons you get a credit to choose your summons. I've tried specific versions of the spell (summon wolf pack, summon python, etc.), because you want to satisfy a players character concept (the guy who just wants to summon his wolf pack and wild shape dire wolf every time he goes into battle, or the yuan-ti druid with his snake theme, or just the player who wants to be able to choose in the campaign you've already been running as random). I mean, they all worked, the players had fun (I guess in the sense that I was tailoring the rules to best suit individual players while trying to implement some additional balance to not over shadow sub-optimal play styles. I also noticed that you didn't touch on swarms: I don't know about mathing it, but Summon a Murder (8 flocks of ravens) was a pretty tough nut.
These seem like the best ones * 2 giant octopus (restrain on a hit) * 8 giant frogs (restrain on a hit) * 4 giant dragon flys (high ac and uncanny dodge) * 8 giant elk (very good damage if there’s room to charge) * 8 fastieth (ok damage, 14 ac, and bonus action dodge) * 8 giant poisonous snakes (good damage if not immune to poison) * 8 velociraptors (very good damage, advantage with pack tactics and they’re tiny creatures)
I used conjure animals on my STR melee ranger. I used Giant Vultures to deal with flying enemies, I used Giant Lizards (my all time favorite) to use as mount for the party, climb speed is so helpful in exploration. Those were my main uses, sometimes apes to set off traps or mapping out a dungeon, though lizards can also usually fill that role.
"So, when do we summon an allosaurus? Well when someone wants to ride a dinosaur." So then this is clearly the optimal choice in every situation. Why are we still talking about it?
You have to take into account that a single round is just 6 seconds and any verbal commands would have to be able to be issued during those 6 seconds. Also that would likely spoil any chance of being able to cast any verbal spells the same round that you issue commands.
One of my favorite memories with conjure animals was when my wood elf ranger summoned a giant elk Was it an optimal option? No, but it was a lot of fun and also thematic RIP Theodore I-VIII you will not be forgotten. As for Theodore IX... May you fare better than the other eight Theodores
here is my take as an dm, my player cann allways choos what she wants to summon. That said there are pre requirements for doing so. She needs to had contact with the animal and spend some time with them to understand there behavior. If she trys to summon a creaturs in an inviroment that isnt natural to that animal she needs to make a check if it fails a random animal (that fits for the location) appears. That way my druid has the goal to seek out more animals and "collect them"
Surprised the Warhorse didn't get a mention. Fairly respectable damage, good movement, and doesn't stand out around people. Another advantage of the Giant Poisonous Snake is the 10' reach. Makes it a lot easier to stack a bit of damage in corridors, etc, and can make for some odd attacks of opportunity.
Was literally about to do a summoner druid in a 14th level one shot scenario, good thing it was postponed and then this video came out so I don't have to fumble through a bunch of beast stat blocks. Before watching, I was predisposed to beasts with pack tactics or maybe some disablers that can swallow, grapple, constrict, etc. I was probably going to stick with low numbers 2-4 at most just to not overwhelm.
Why Quetzalcotalus? Dive attack plus flyby means if you're in a place that can accommodate huge flying creatures (a bit worse than your elk scenarios), you'll be inflicting 6d6+2 per quetzal that hits per round. Easily better than fireball for a 3rd level slot when contending with a DM that doesn't leave their enemies in convenient fireball template formation. A creature can also grapple. A huge creature with a fly speed can grapple quite a lot of things and because they are two sizes over medium, grabbing a medium sized enemy doesn't slow them down if they fly away with that creature.
This video came out on my Birthday just a few days before i took this spell in my campaign. Something else I like about Giant Toad is the RP of interrogation/torture.
My Spore Druid experience was weak enough for my DM to allow me a find steed spell (level 3 instead) that would summon a stench kow. Far from overpowered but very fun for a mount.
I allow the player to choose, unless they don't know what it is they want. Then they can kick it back to me and just say "give me something thematic". At that point if they're fighting flying creatures I'll give them a pair of giant eagles. If they're in a swamp I'll give them some crocodiles. If they're on the deck of a pirate ship I'll give them a pair of giant octopi. If you're summoning eight creatures, they will use the mob rules to see how much damage they do until their numbers are more manageable. (If they have pack tactics I'll give plus five to hit to compensate). Just because rolling eight more attacks and damage can slow things down so much. And I tell my players this, and then remind them when they announce they want to cast the spell so they can make an informed decision of how their creatures will run.
With a moon druid summon a giant elk, then bonus action wildshape into giant elk. You both now speak the same language "giant elk" so you can direct your summoned creature. Have the summoned giant elk knock down enemies and then use your wildshaped giant elk to trample them. Its soooo much fun when it works (which admittedly is not too often.....)
After wiping out the floor with the big boss after casting first time Conjure Woodland Beings by party of Giant Apes, suddenly in the next session, when I casted Conjure Animals, random beasts from 0-1/4CR table from MM appeared. Most of them were 0CR and useless in combat, one of them was Quipper, who couldn’t breathe and was just flopping on the ground for some time.
Normally, I run summons to go in the turn after the summoner to speed things up. In addition, when I'm the summoner normally keep myself in the CR 1 camp, less a chore for me and everyone (Brown Bears and Giant Octopus are effective enough for me). Except for the Giant Owls outside of combat for practical reasons.
I'm thinking, with the cows and elks. Have half of them charge, then on round 2, the other half while the 1st half moves into position to charge again.
But treant! For the Quetzalcoatlus , having your whole party being able to fly over the enemy is a instant win if they can’t fly and you can out range them
Idbpick 4 or 6 of each cr and roll for em. Maybe limit like pixies to 1 then reroll for what other animals come so you get a chance of 1 op each time but still some randomness. Or limit to animals of the region.
I think a really interesting idea is summoning a giant owl and 7 other cr 1/4 beasts that way you have a flying mount and can stay out of combat range while the other 7 creatures kill your enemy’s
Elks almost never do the most damage, wolves do more damage than Elks because of the increased hit rate b/c of Pack Tactics. But by far the winner in terms of damage with Conjure Animals is Velociraptors - they are tiny so can fit in lots of place and even have multiple raptors share the same square guaranteeing their Pack Tactics for Adv on 2 attacks per raptor. Furthermore if your DM approves, Giant Constrictor Snake is the best option when fighting a dragon. Make the snake appear above the flying dragon and have it fall onto the dragon and constrict around it, bringing it crashing to the ground.
@@20100langlois Unless every single elk gets a charge, Velociraptors get out ahead, and practically I have never seen a situation where every single elk gets a charge. They are simply too bulky and the space required for the charge too great.
@@agilemind6241 I understand what you are saying, and I agree, but now you're adding in conditionals and specifics. The way you worded it was Wolves are always better, and I think that is not correct. With conditionals, lists like this become way harder to calculate. For example, both of your choices do 0 damage vs flying opponents. Or both do way less if heavy obscurement happens. In those cases, options like giant poisonous snakes/flying snakes catapult ahead (and they are already top tier options) because suddenly they get advantage. As an FYI, here's a link to a simulation comparing the best choices: www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/blwwcc/a_damage_analysis_of_conjure_animals/. I also ran my own, and I get slightly different results when factoring in AC, average resistances/immunities, adv. and crit, etc. I was surprised to see my top damage dealer is Giant Poisonous Snakes.
Shepherd gives two additional HP per hit die, some inconsistencies in the calculations. Additionally, the Bear Spirit can add 11HP to everything you summon (at that level) so a lot of them can (but won't always) be almost twice as durable.
I use Dndbeyond to filter beast, CR and environment to determine the results of the conjure spells. I pick one of the options available but try to make it interesting for the player.
Is 8 Elks truly the best option? I thought it was 8 Giant Poisonous Snakes, since 1d4+4 + 3d6 (halved on save) is still a really sizeable chunk of damage. Also, Flying snakes are a great flyby option. In general, I think people too quickly dismiss poison options. They do insane damage when appropriate.
I think they go simultaneously, but with their own, overlapping turns, similar to how you decided mounted combat works, or how identical creatures just roll initiative once and take their turns at the same time. Maybe you agree, but it didn't seem that clear in the video, since you were distinguishing between "group turns" and "individual turns."
@@TreantmonksTemple Are you just taking that from the tweet at 3:37? Because they do have multiple turns, they just all go at the same time. I don't see what suggests that go one at a time.
Horse. I want to know more about draft horse, war horse, and riding horse. It seems like though you only get 4 warhorses, they aren’t too bad when compared to 8 draft horses. Bc move speed bonus, higher attack die (helps a little to mitigate differences) and I think they have a higher AC. Riding horse idk when to use. Compared with draft horse and war horse. I guess if the party I was in was greater than 4 of us 🤣 for ground travel… but then again, flying options
I like your evaluations. Practical and backed up with the math, but you are looking at combat using conjured beasts overmuch in places and missed some advantages to be used found in observation (Perception), RP (conversation object) and other non-combat situations using such conjurations.
Can conjured animals use the Help action, if directed to do so by their conjurer? Tight, enclosed dungeon spaces might benefit more from a bunch of Tiny animals in the same way that Familiars are useful in that space.
Thank you I enjoyed this video. However, the spell says that DM picks the creature. A better video might be one that advises a DM how to pick *reasonable* (not necessarily optimized, but fits the location) creatures, in which case I still think this can be a good spell. As you say, it remains very situation dependent. At least the player gets to pick quantity and CR. [Edit] just watched your Shepherd druid video where you discussed this from DM perspective - thanks again
How would you weigh in on the deinonychus for the two CR1 creatures option? Features that require you to move 20 feet in a straight line aren't always reliable, especially if they have a save attached after. However the deinonychus can potentially make 4 attacks in a round each if they can knock the target prone
I'm going to talk to my DM about this. I feel like they only put the ruling "DM chooses the creature" to prevent those crazy things like pixies or something. I hope if I tell my DM i'm going to stick to max 4 creatures at one time (so its not overboard on the map) and just typical beasts, think he'll be ok with me choosing them. fingers crossed!
I would imagine, if you get to decide you likely can only pick stuff your character has seen. Likely the same as once wild shapes. If one do not decide though, now that would be interesting. So say, I never walked into the underdark. However now I suddenly summon Fiendish Giant Spider's. Although sure I have not seen true Fiendish Giant Spider's at this point but would these be enough for me to now transform into one? Say dinosaurs are not alive in the DM's setting. Could this then be a way to argue you could still learn to become one? _________ I do not know if it would actually do anything meaningful in practice, however I do like the idea of summoning 8 stirges. They only have 2 hp, however they are tiny with 40ft flyspeed and they attach to enemies! A 5 damage sting, so 40 damage if all would manage to attach themselves, and they go on to drain an average of 5 damage to a maximum of 10 from those they are sucking off. I can imagine all 8 of them swarming a T-Rex. So 40 sting damage in total. Not sure how a T-Rex would even kill any of them but sure, manages to kill 2 on its turn. 6 remaining for another 30 damage. Next round it looses another 20 from the last 2 sirges. (I do realize after that I did not really bother to take the reality that these creatures will not always hit themselves) At this point the stirges are pretty much done. I suppose you could order them to sting again, and keep dealing 5 damage. However I like the idea that they are now full and would not want to sting again. Or perhaps if they where ordered to keep sucking they would pop. XD However the creature who was attacked would probably be pretty freaked out about the 2 stirges that remain regardless of them no longer being a real threat. So even after they stop being a danger, most creatures would likely not rationalize that far. In any case, that dealt 90 damage to a T-Rex. Stirges are meant to be like oversized bat mosquito's though. So they may very well be hard to notice even as they land and sting. Would a T-Rex really care that much about some tiny little bird things? Say it did not focus on them but rather on you. Now we talk 40*3. 40 for the innitial sting, 80 for the next 2 turns as they drink. A T-Rex only has an average of 136 hp. Is it the best way to harm something, probably not. Hehe, but I like someone else being the target of the stinging for once. I suppose wasp could be fun too. Still 5 sting damage, but every round. And even on a T-Rex I think its like 30% chance it fails the poison check of 11. ... Ehem. Its not as if I would be so sadistic as to carefully skin the creature alive if it just so happen to hit 0 hp due to the poison.
for conjure animals, any spell that you decide to cast every combat is a badly designed spell. I'm fine with the DM picking creatures because there are times when its healthy to pick something else. Its one of the reasons fireball is sometimes looked down on - "I just cast fireball" is practically a meme at this point. Also with the elk example, your paladin could just ride one of the elk as a mount. Problem solved. heck, functioning as mounts, they would allow your group to outrun the golems if you needed to. Even against the Dao, assuming it wants to kill YOU, the elks could function as mounts and be very useful as mobility enhancers even if all of them can't directly deal damage at any one time. In the narrow corridor example, you could summon them as temporary walls. :P For the giant constrictor (huge size) the creature technically occupies a cube doesn't it? So it is a 15' high wall, reach extends 20' of total height?
If you need to breathe under water, shape into an actopus and facehug the party breathing for them. ... and if they dont like it slide into their stomach since more than an inch wide. Or conjure a bunch for dnd diving masks. Oh and rock octo would be funny if used diving into water then just not coming up to hide. Or poly or shape into it and hide out in a bag full of water and have someone catapult the bag into combat to restrain. Halfling summons 8 cows to ride to the next town, unfortunately they were stench cows and everyone suffocated.
Technically, a creature with pack tactics that goes first in the turn order can move up to an enemy and ready an action to attack when a friendly creature becomes adjacent to the target. That way you can always attack with advantage.
That’s genius.
@@dragoknight589 and therefore probably outside the intelligence capacity of the creature to use
@@coreyalbion9192 I don't understand why a creature with an ability can't think how to use it, wolves aren't sacks of flesh with rocks for brains, they can think and feel and understand things. Intelligence doesn't stop at is it humanoid or something. How hard is it to believe that a creature understands that it should always attack as a group because two is better than one, and monkey meme together strong.
@@coreyalbion9192
I think them "obeying any verbal command, no action required." will cover them being dumb animals.
@@notsureicare488 they are not animals they are "fey spirits in the form of animals" also I use the same tactic with my tiny servents if we play with flanking, one tiny servant moves in ready an attack 2nd tiny servant moves in to flanking position ready attack goes off with advantage.
A CR2 huge beast has the highest damage potential. You just have to summon it from a few thousand feet up.
I am *definitely* going to use that in the campaign I'm in. Thank you, wise one, for this knowledge.
*insert maniacal laughter*
@@LilythathappenstobeinaValley My suggestion is draft horses. Each one would weigh about 2000lbs and at CR 1/4 you could drop 8 of them on a target. Or a single CR2 Giant Elk, which is size huge.
Very grisly, but I love it.
Hahahahahah nice, but sadly the spells range is 60 feet...
@@brodar2232 I didn't bother to say it in the post, but I knew you'd have to get yourself up there somehow. A druid would have the easiest time after level 8, but any caster could manage it with the right spells.
I played a Shepherd Druid from 1st - 17th level. In my experience, with my DM. We worked out that the theme of my druid, is all about wolves. I could always choose wolves, but if I wanted anything else, he'd random roll 'within reason' for the area we were in. To keep my 'turns' from absolutely wrecking combat pacing, we made it so I could give control to the other players and the wolves would take their turns after each player. There were 4 players, who then had control of two pet wolves each. To me it was fun being the party pet supplier, and the party had fun because each got their own pets to command around, so I wasn't monopolizing the combat turns. It made it so my 'thematic' spell would always get me what I want, but if I wanted something else, it would be down to the natural creatures in that area.
this is a great solution : )
Would love to see a druid tactics guide like the one done with low, mid, high level wizards. Love to see druid content in general. You know what? I actually just love these videos
How about an actual play stream where I play a summoner druid? Check the Dungeon Dudes live stream tomorrow!
@@TreantmonksTemple LETS GOOOO! I was gonna watch that when it would get posted on youtube, but now i have zero excuse not to watch it live
@@TreantmonksTempleI suppose I missed it 🤣 is it available somewhere to watch? I’m only a couple years late… lol
Also, you can use Inspiring Leader on giant owls because they can understand common. This would make them the best tanks you can get with conjure animals.
I'm not even sure if you need giant owls, the animals already understand you and that's all that's required for inspiring leader.
@@mr.histor1996 that's assuming the druid themselves have that feat, not another party member
@@godminnette2 The druid doesn't have to inspire them himself. "You can spend 10 minutes inspiring your companions, shoring up their resolve to fight. When you do so, choose up to six friendly creatures (which can include yourself) within 30 feet of you who can see or hear you and who can understand you. Each creature can gain temporary hit points equal to your level + your Charisma modifier. A creature can't gain temporary hit points from this feat again until it has finished a short or long rest." This is the exact wording for Inspiring Leader. Conjure Animals states that the summoned animals are friendly to you *and your companions*. It's very clear that any of your allies can inspire giant owls, because giant owls understand common.
But now that Tasha's has come out, the Twilight Cleric's channel divinity blows this combination out of the water. There's nothing like giving 16 conjured animals (of any variety) 14 temporary hit points every round at 9th level.
I typically say "you can pick the beast, but I have a request (not a rule). For the ease of play, please use the CR 2 or CR 1 options. This will cause less creatures on the battlefield, and thus not slow things down too much. Additionally, it doesn't make it feel like you have half the battlefield owned by you. If you want to summon 8 wolves for a boss battle and have been mostly summoning CR 2 or 1 monsters for the least few sessions, I won't find any issue."
This is my home game fix as well. In combat, I ask that a maximum of two creatures are attacking (essentially asking for CR 1 or CR 2). Out of combat, I'm fine with summoning more, such as giant owls for an hour of flying.
I've played with eight wolves and i don't slow down play. I pre roll during other players turns and have used an Excel spreadsheet with random number generation. There are good tools online. Lots of ways to use lots of summons and still be considerate.
I just allow the beasts to go after the summoners turn and they can roll damage as a group.
@@cory849 honestly same, I love summoning 8 wolves and I have 8d20s specifically for this, I designate the targets roll all 8, set aside any that miss, roll again to see if they get nat20, then roll the misses to see if they hit, it usually takes about a minute or 2 and I'm done. Less time than a spellcaster takes to search for a spell they wanna cast.
As a player I always try to use CR1/2 creatures for this exact reason; same reason I haven't played a necromancer before (though I'd love too)
I will admit, my personal favourites are the Giant Wasp/Dragonfly, mainly for the flavour, but they can be very effective (the former against lumbering targets, the latter against agile targets)
I have never understood why some summoning effects have "the creature rolls its own initiative".
It's needlessly complicated, just have them act on the druid's turn.
Also, i have found weird that sometimes you want the creatures to roll LESS, so ghey can act right after you and before the monsters.
Imagine
Skeletons 19
Zombies 12
Druid 8
If the Wolf rolls lower than 8 or higher than 19, it acts straight away. If they roll like an 11, they just "lost" a turn, and will get mauled by the skeletons and zombies.
Giant owls are almost always the best option imo.
- they have flyby and a ton of movement so turns are quick.
- they have the strength to pick up any of the party generally, so they give you control over the entire battlefield.
- some of the largest health pools for the CR means that if you need to just create a wall of flesh to slow down enemies. They do the trick.
Ah... the infamous Conjure Airstrike
i once had eight giant owls take down a young green dragon pretty much by themselves. the rest of the party wasn't even needed.
Important on the Giant Constrictor Snake's Blindsight is actually its size.
A normal medium sized PC with 10' Blindsight covers 24 squares (plus the one you are standing in I guess) while a Darkness spell can cover 36 squares. So you have to move pretty far into the spell to search it this way.
A conjured snake not only gets rid of the risk of going in yourself, it covers 40 squares plus the squares it occupies. Actually bigger than a standard darkness spell, so it doesn't even have to move to cover a considerable area.
One major piece I think you missed is the damage resistances on Stench Kow. The fire, cold and poison resistance make it quite resilient to most AOE attacks. To the point that a fireball likely wont kill the 1/4 CR creature is amazing.
One addition for the Giant Bats: They have a Str of +2 and can grapple enemies and pull them into the air with half their flying speed of 60 ft per turn (or their full speed against small creatures). Especially effective with advantage from the bear totem of the shepherd druid.
Oh man, I had a Bat shaman druid in pathfinder who would do this trick with both their wildshape and their animal companion, quite terrifying at night with low visibility.
My DM made a fun and balanced custom rules for this spell.
1. I could only summon animals that my character knows about (so no dinosaurs, extremely rare beasts, etc.).
2. In the air I could summon only flying beasts and in water only swimming beasts (so no dropping cows on my enemies).
3. Outside of combat I could choose the specific type of beasts I wanted, with the described numbers and CR.
4. In combat I had to roll a WIS skill check to see if I summon what I want. On 10-19 I summoned what I wanted. On 5-9 DM got to choose what appeared, but it wasn't anything terrible. On 1-4 it was something useless, like fish on a desert. And on 20 or above I got to summon a CR3 beast.
This way I had a reason to not always choose the CR1/4 option, and I often chose fewer beasts that better suited my current situation.
Stirges are also on the short list of animals that can technically reduce the hp of creatures immune to nonmagical weapon damage.
I would like to object that in the Clay Golem example, it's not necessarily a bad outcome if the Elks are limited in damage. If the Clay Golems want to punch through the elk and take out one each strike, that's two entire rounds in which they failed to damage the party. There was no save involved and you couldn't have done the same with Hypnotic Pattern (which the golems are immune to)
If you're not using this spell to summon puppies that obey your verbal commands to win the hearts and minds of the townsfolk, you and I are playing very, very different games.
I love the tongue 'n cheek reference to the onyx. My favorite part was the breakdown of all the different cows, for sure.
Besides being an optimized list for players, this can be a good guide for kind hearted DMs who want to actually provide useful creatures when the spell is cast
You forgot to mention an advantage of wolves over previously mentioned options: they're size medium. This means many more of them can cluster around an enemy than large creatures can, esp if that enemy is itself large or huge, and maybe still leave room for martials.
17:50 The Dire Wolf's 3 more AC is much more important than the 3 more HP, 50ft movespeed and +4 stealth are nice too. One of the best CR 1 tanks.
Small tip for usability: Directing the animals as a group can make their turns surprisingly fast. Generally, attacking and moving is the only thing a conjured animal can do so you can just say "5 elks attack this monster, three attack that one" and essentially handle their turns like you do a souped-up multiattack. Especially on VTT handling a large quantity of attack rolls is not a big problem. Still, having the stat blocks ready is a must. Running the turns individually can sometimes work if the player is decisive but it quickly becomes a chore if multiple players use Conjure spells or upcast them (and Conjure Animals very much is worth upcasting).
Of course, using the animals for scouting/transport also requires very little micromanagement. I would like to mention here that Giant Owls can also scout on their own due to their solid intelligence and more notably their capability of speech (Comprehend Languages helps there). While a Giant Owl cannot infiltrate a hideout or sneak in a dungeon, they can very much survey an outdoor environment and scope out landmarks at a distance.
All good points. However, as far as using the Giant Owl as a scout goes, we should keep in mind that as of Tasha's, Wild Companion allows us to summon a familiar for scouting duties ... without using up a level 3 spell slot. Also, by the time you're casting Conjure Animals, the familiar you can summon will last at least twice as long as conjured Giant Owls, and the duration only goes up from there.
Let's keep in mind that many decent-or-better druid subclasses really have no good use for Wild Shape twice every short rest other than conjuring a scout ... especially at low levels. 😉 Of course, ain't nothin' stopping a ranger from using Conjure Animals this way, and conjured creatures are a bit more useful for long-range reconnaissance ...
@@morganpetros9635 What does Wild Shape have to do with Conjure Animals? I'm a 3rd level Circle of Shepherd Druid. I can Wild Shape now, but am still limited to second level spell slots. Have been sinking a lot of time into getting animal cards & stats ready for both me & my DM.
@@morganpetros9635 And who gets "Wild Companion"? Is that a Ranger thing? Pretty sure my Druid doesn't.
@@Karina-Loves-Andreas Then you're absolutely *WRONG.* Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, pp. 55-56, WILD COMPANION, 2nd-level druid feature. Kindly pay attention to what I'm saying and *read the material referenced* before making ignorant comments.
@@Karina-Loves-Andreas Again, kindly read the entire comment *AND THE MATERIAL REFERENCED.* The simple fact is that druids can make use of Wild Shape to cast Find Familiar and that many druid circles have no better use of Wild Shape. The fact that you can Wild shape *BEFORE* you can cast Conjure Animals just supports my argument that if you want a scout "animal," using Wild Shape is more effective than casting Conjure Animals.
Definitely talk to your DM. RAW if you ask for a single creature of CR 2 or lower, an adversarial DM can emphasize the LOWER, and give you a single CR 0 creature. But if your DM is like that, that is a big red flag.
That is technically true, though in my experience, just because DM's can screw over a player, they choose not to.
Then you tell your DM you're okay with CR0 creatures so long as you get to pick which one and summon Onyx :P
And it is a huge red flag if a player thinks it is "cool" to bog down a game with 8 additional creatures that are added to the Initiative loop. Incredibly selfish.
@@vincesnetterton2515 well, if the player is on top of it, the spell won't slow things too much
@@cmckee42 Seriously? Assume a 4 char party, suddenly jumps to 12, with 8 more attack rolls, 8 more units on the map, etc..It bogs the game down in a huge way.
Really wish there were more beast and plant creatures, including high cr ones. I love the frilled deathspitter for poison turrets, it's range is 15/30 but it can blind a creature for one round.
the regular constrictor snake is notable as well since they're better than giant frogs for restraining. lower hp but higher AC higher save higher to hit higher damage.
I used to use regular constrictor snakes all the time, i just stopped because it was making combat drag on and on, and i had to keep track of which snakes were constricting which enemies, and who had advantage on their attacks as a result... just felt super messy.
The rocktopus seems to be a misprint. They are supposed to be land dwelling octopuses who can't breath underwater.
The fact that you need to make a 45 minute video to help us with one spell is why I hope you're right and they change all of these types of spells into templates instead in the future.
I LOVE CONJURE ANIMAAAALLLLSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know!
Personally i think the spell should run like this. Once u enter a new area the dm gives the player cards with known animal option nearby and their ratings. They can gain more cards through perception and questioning. Ensure their are powerfull options in each area but not give them the strongest immediately and let them chose what they summon based on what they find. Thus the dm only has to think about whats there once, 2 u encourage role play, 3 they feel in control of the spell.
I like this method. I usually try to pick thematic animals rather than the most optimal one.
Draft horse is pretty good as well when Velociraptors/Wolves don't have advantage
This is also one of my favorite utility/bfc spells. Need a quick escape? Giant owls grab the party. Need to travel fast? Giant Eagles. Powerful archers? Swarm them with wolves to give disadvantage or make them use an action to kill the wolves. Entangle too boring? Constrictor snakes roll to restrain every round.
Excellent overview of the options. Part of the reason the lower CR creatures are more powerful is that these spells do not consider the encounter multipliers from Chapter 3 (DMG) / Chapter 13 (basic rules) . If they had, instead of 8 CR 1/4 being equivalent to CR2 (400), they would be closer to CR 4 (1000). If a DM wants to use the multipliers, then the spell should offer 1 CR2, 2 CR 1/2, 4 CR 1/4 or 8 CR 1/8, but they would be significantly less powerful spells.
You could use a 2nd level longstrider on two giant octopi to make them more viable for multiple combats. 20-foot movement combined with 15-foot reach should be good enough for most encounters.
You could just use the rocktopus. The modified statblock forgot to add the part about removing the waterbreathing, but they can breathe on land.
"This creature is a giant octopus that has evolved to live and thrive on land. It can alter its coloration to appear as a rock formation, and it tends to lurk in crevices and fissures, attacking smaller creatures that wander near. It has a walking speed of 20 feet and a climbing speed of 10 feet, loses its Hold Breath feature, and replaces its Underwater Camouflage feature with the following feature:
Camouflage. The octopus has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks."
Wow…I forgot about the Onyx. That’s hilarious! Now I kinda wanna summon them in a game…
This is so you can better protect your friends! Awesome collab with D4D and Dungeon Dudes btw, you cracked me up soooo goood!
Well, I’m considering Level Up (self-named Advanced 5e DnD) for my future games. They changed higher level effect from increasing amount to increasing CR… and several other things after more detailed inspection, like removing eight creatures option. Full text of spell effect below. How much will it break the game, or it is OK change?
You summon forth the spirit of a beast that takes the physical form of your choosing in unoccupied spaces you can see. Choose one of the following:
• One beast of CR 2 or less
• Two beasts of CR 1 or less
• Three beasts of CR 1/2 or less
Beasts summoned this way are allied to you and your companions. While it is within 60 feet you can use a bonus action to mentally command a summoned beast. When you command multiple beasts using this spell, you must give them all the same command. You may decide the action the beast takes and where it moves during its next turn, or you can issue a general command, such as guarding an area. If not given a command, a conjured beast only defends itself.
Cast at Higher Levels. The challenge rating of beasts you can summon increases by one step for each slot level above 3rd. For example, when using a 4th-level spell slot you can summon one beast of CR 3 or less, two beasts of CR 2 or less, or three beasts of CR 1 or less.
"While it is within 60 feet you can use a *bonus action* to mentally command a summoned beast"
I don't like my summon spells eating into my action economy if I summon creatures its to have better action economy, this is why I hate all of the pet options in Tasha's (wildfire druid, creation bard, battlesmith artificer) they need you to use your BA every turn wich is a pain there are so many better BA you could be doing.
At least with tiny servant and animate dead you can give them standing orders before a fight so that they don't eat into your action economy during combat.
> Initiative for a group of identical creatures is rolled once, so they all act at the same time. (PHB 189)
Roll initiative once for all identical creatures then they act on that initiative, that is how I read it.
Cute comments about the dangers of cows, Chris. Don't fret though...cows are called "grass puppies" for a reason! Milk cops tend to be pretty mellow and friendly to a point.
Great video, Chris!
I remember an encounter with air elementals where we used the giant bats as an improvised faerie fire. We still had disadvantage on our attacks but at least we knew which squares to attack.
You missed how broken Giant Owl is. Flyby let's you dive, attack, retreat every round. Without flyby summons are locked into combat till dead, often due to area attack. Giant Owl let's you get that DPR to any target of your choice, distributed as you will. Charging animals engage peons. Flying can target the BBEG or caster, or the troll that is escaped the Frontline and is grappling the wizard. Giant bats would be locked in after they attack. Giant owls are great as they don't take up real estate and clog up battle, the real reason Dams don't like the spell. You just make 8 attack rolls, then roll damage for the ones that hit, turn after turn and everybody else didn't have to work around your fodder, like the wizard skipping over a fireball as it would cancel your spell.
12:15
everybody gangsta until the snake starts walkin
I'm preparing to use this spell soon for the first time...I actually wrote off the "Deep Rothe", he's going back on the list!!🤣 But don't dis the Stench Kow-- "When Do We Use This"? Well: how about when you set up traps outside a cave, dungeon, whatever, plan ranged attacks, and need to flush your enemy out. Stench Kow is resistant to tons of stuff, so consider setting terrain on fire, etc outside the main door or cave entrance.
Just watched the collaboration with Colby, Monty and Kelly. You guys did a great job with the builds, very entertaining. Your druid should be called the velociraptor swarmkeeper.
We used a plesiosaur rope and a water breathing spell to submarine our way to shore and avoid an encounter on row boats
Shoutout to Giant Crab, a worse version of the Giant Frog, except the crab has blindsight and better AC, so if you are doing any fog cloud or magical darkness shenanigans, these medium sized CR 1/8 guys can be really good at keeping the enemy in that area, they auto grapple on a hit (though they don't restrain like the frog does), their AC is 15, normally the frog makes up for this by restraining their foe and thus imposing disadvantage on attacks, but again, if you are doing darkness/fog cloud things, the enemy will already have disadvantage to attack these little guys.
The Giant Crab is the go to for the shepherd druid in my game, so many fights have been won because the enemy was prone and grappled.
The spell States choose one of the following options for what appears, let's say I choose the third option. So it would read, "choose one of the following options for what appears four beasts of challenge rating 1/2 or lower."
Now read it with the choice as part of the sentence. Basically replace the part that says one of the following options with the choice that it was.
Choose (four beasts of challenge rating 1/2 or lower) for what appears.
The spouse says you, the castor, do that not the DM. I understand if the DM wants to homebrew it but I don't think it's intended or RAW for the DM to decide.
That's my two cents
Been considering doing a write up guide like this for summon greater demon, but more than happy to leave it to you to do a vid instead :p so much utility packed into that spell with the damage resists, magic resists, telepathy, various senses, various spells and abilities...etc
The rule for summoning animals and which animals they summon is very vague. When I DM and when I play (if the dm agrees with it) I pick an animal type and stick with it for all CR levels. Much like expertise on the specific animal. That completely blocks out specific CR levels and I think that helps balance it.
Jeremy Crawford's interpretation of initiative for Conjure Animals is only easily implemented in virtual tabletops like Roll20 and Foundry; running it in person is something of a nightmare.
As far as how the choices of creatures to summon is concerned, I limit the spell very simply: I assume the spell is calling upon fey spirits of the natural area the Druid is in, who would, I conjecture, only take the form of animals they are familiar with; the player needs to choose animals that are found in the region they're at. I use existing Beasts as examples; Elk are only found in relatively cold, boreal regions, but large antelopes in the savannah would be fine, and if Giant Owls wouldn't normally be found in that area, another giant predatory bird certainly would, and so on. I avoid saying 'No', as much as I can - I'd much rather say 'Yes, but.' In this case, the question of 'Can I summon eight Elks there?' is answered by 'Yes, but they appear as large antelopes, not elks.'
I just summoned 8 flying snakes in our last session. Completely wrecked a frost yeti.
Theoretically the plesiosaurus could be conjured into a 5ft space, squeezing, and taking the dodge action. Thats a pretty good wall for a party to escape behind.
The one thing you didn't talk about, that I would find the most interesting and useful (as a DM and as a player interested in keeping the game both fun and balanced) is how you run summons selections at your table because you feel that's what best threads the needle between fun and balance.
I've tried different approaches; because sometimes you want what you want, and other times you don't really care. Totally random doesn't seem unreasonable; in that, with many spells, target(s) make their save(s) and your spell is wasted. Also, sometimes you've got a player who doesn't know, or care to know, enough about the rules to make a choice (in a timely fashion), and/or the suspense of random can be fun (chaos sorcerer). I've tried a system where each time you take a random summons you get a credit to choose your summons. I've tried specific versions of the spell (summon wolf pack, summon python, etc.), because you want to satisfy a players character concept (the guy who just wants to summon his wolf pack and wild shape dire wolf every time he goes into battle, or the yuan-ti druid with his snake theme, or just the player who wants to be able to choose in the campaign you've already been running as random).
I mean, they all worked, the players had fun (I guess in the sense that I was tailoring the rules to best suit individual players while trying to implement some additional balance to not over shadow sub-optimal play styles.
I also noticed that you didn't touch on swarms: I don't know about mathing it, but Summon a Murder (8 flocks of ravens) was a pretty tough nut.
These seem like the best ones
* 2 giant octopus (restrain on a hit)
* 8 giant frogs (restrain on a hit)
* 4 giant dragon flys (high ac and uncanny dodge)
* 8 giant elk (very good damage if there’s room to charge)
* 8 fastieth (ok damage, 14 ac, and bonus action dodge)
* 8 giant poisonous snakes (good damage if not immune to poison)
* 8 velociraptors (very good damage, advantage with pack tactics and they’re tiny creatures)
I used conjure animals on my STR melee ranger. I used Giant Vultures to deal with flying enemies, I used Giant Lizards (my all time favorite) to use as mount for the party, climb speed is so helpful in exploration. Those were my main uses, sometimes apes to set off traps or mapping out a dungeon, though lizards can also usually fill that role.
"So, when do we summon an allosaurus? Well when someone wants to ride a dinosaur."
So then this is clearly the optimal choice in every situation. Why are we still talking about it?
This is late but constrictor snakes are criminally underrated: 13hp, 12 AC, and an auto grapple which restrains, you get 8 of them
You have to take into account that a single round is just 6 seconds and any verbal commands would have to be able to be issued during those 6 seconds. Also that would likely spoil any chance of being able to cast any verbal spells the same round that you issue commands.
I've been using your PDF forever thanx treatmonk.
One of my favorite memories with conjure animals was when my wood elf ranger summoned a giant elk
Was it an optimal option? No, but it was a lot of fun and also thematic
RIP Theodore I-VIII you will not be forgotten. As for Theodore IX... May you fare better than the other eight Theodores
here is my take as an dm, my player cann allways choos what she wants to summon. That said there are pre requirements for doing so. She needs to had contact with the animal and spend some time with them to understand there behavior. If she trys to summon a creaturs in an inviroment that isnt natural to that animal she needs to make a check if it fails a random animal (that fits for the location) appears. That way my druid has the goal to seek out more animals and "collect them"
The "cows are dangers" bit just broke me 🤣🤣
Surprised the Warhorse didn't get a mention. Fairly respectable damage, good movement, and doesn't stand out around people.
Another advantage of the Giant Poisonous Snake is the 10' reach. Makes it a lot easier to stack a bit of damage in corridors, etc, and can make for some odd attacks of opportunity.
Was literally about to do a summoner druid in a 14th level one shot scenario, good thing it was postponed and then this video came out so I don't have to fumble through a bunch of beast stat blocks. Before watching, I was predisposed to beasts with pack tactics or maybe some disablers that can swallow, grapple, constrict, etc. I was probably going to stick with low numbers 2-4 at most just to not overwhelm.
Why Quetzalcotalus? Dive attack plus flyby means if you're in a place that can accommodate huge flying creatures (a bit worse than your elk scenarios), you'll be inflicting 6d6+2 per quetzal that hits per round. Easily better than fireball for a 3rd level slot when contending with a DM that doesn't leave their enemies in convenient fireball template formation. A creature can also grapple. A huge creature with a fly speed can grapple quite a lot of things and because they are two sizes over medium, grabbing a medium sized enemy doesn't slow them down if they fly away with that creature.
This video came out on my Birthday just a few days before i took this spell in my campaign. Something else I like about Giant Toad is the RP of interrogation/torture.
My Spore Druid experience was weak enough for my DM to allow me a find steed spell (level 3 instead) that would summon a stench kow. Far from overpowered but very fun for a mount.
I allow the player to choose, unless they don't know what it is they want. Then they can kick it back to me and just say "give me something thematic". At that point if they're fighting flying creatures I'll give them a pair of giant eagles. If they're in a swamp I'll give them some crocodiles. If they're on the deck of a pirate ship I'll give them a pair of giant octopi. If you're summoning eight creatures, they will use the mob rules to see how much damage they do until their numbers are more manageable. (If they have pack tactics I'll give plus five to hit to compensate). Just because rolling eight more attacks and damage can slow things down so much. And I tell my players this, and then remind them when they announce they want to cast the spell so they can make an informed decision of how their creatures will run.
Well conjuring up a rabbit is an old classic. People may laugh, until they learn it's from Caerbannog.
He's got razor-sharp teeth.
"Cows stink, but I guess this one really stinks!" XD
Also, am I on crazy pills? It looked like the giant bat and giant owl have the exact same fly speed.
With a moon druid summon a giant elk, then bonus action wildshape into giant elk. You both now speak the same language "giant elk" so you can direct your summoned creature. Have the summoned giant elk knock down enemies and then use your wildshaped giant elk to trample them. Its soooo much fun when it works (which admittedly is not too often.....)
After wiping out the floor with the big boss after casting first time Conjure Woodland Beings by party of Giant Apes, suddenly in the next session, when I casted Conjure Animals, random beasts from 0-1/4CR table from MM appeared. Most of them were 0CR and useless in combat, one of them was Quipper, who couldn’t breathe and was just flopping on the ground for some time.
Normally, I run summons to go in the turn after the summoner to speed things up. In addition, when I'm the summoner normally keep myself in the CR 1 camp, less a chore for me and everyone (Brown Bears and Giant Octopus are effective enough for me). Except for the Giant Owls outside of combat for practical reasons.
I'm thinking, with the cows and elks. Have half of them charge, then on round 2, the other half while the 1st half moves into position to charge again.
Octopus has a 15ft reach. They can get tons of opportunity attacks that stop the enemy. They are essentially sentinel fighters
But treant! For the Quetzalcoatlus , having your whole party being able to fly over the enemy is a instant win if they can’t fly and you can out range them
Idbpick 4 or 6 of each cr and roll for em. Maybe limit like pixies to 1 then reroll for what other animals come so you get a chance of 1 op each time but still some randomness. Or limit to animals of the region.
The Rocktopus: Existence is suffering
I think a really interesting idea is summoning a giant owl and 7 other cr 1/4 beasts that way you have a flying mount and can stay out of combat range while the other 7 creatures kill your enemy’s
Elks almost never do the most damage, wolves do more damage than Elks because of the increased hit rate b/c of Pack Tactics. But by far the winner in terms of damage with Conjure Animals is Velociraptors - they are tiny so can fit in lots of place and even have multiple raptors share the same square guaranteeing their Pack Tactics for Adv on 2 attacks per raptor.
Furthermore if your DM approves, Giant Constrictor Snake is the best option when fighting a dragon. Make the snake appear above the flying dragon and have it fall onto the dragon and constrict around it, bringing it crashing to the ground.
I am very curious to see your math, because my math says otherwise.
@@20100langlois Unless every single elk gets a charge, Velociraptors get out ahead, and practically I have never seen a situation where every single elk gets a charge. They are simply too bulky and the space required for the charge too great.
@@agilemind6241 I understand what you are saying, and I agree, but now you're adding in conditionals and specifics. The way you worded it was Wolves are always better, and I think that is not correct. With conditionals, lists like this become way harder to calculate. For example, both of your choices do 0 damage vs flying opponents. Or both do way less if heavy obscurement happens. In those cases, options like giant poisonous snakes/flying snakes catapult ahead (and they are already top tier options) because suddenly they get advantage.
As an FYI, here's a link to a simulation comparing the best choices: www.reddit.com/r/3d6/comments/blwwcc/a_damage_analysis_of_conjure_animals/. I also ran my own, and I get slightly different results when factoring in AC, average resistances/immunities, adv. and crit, etc. I was surprised to see my top damage dealer is Giant Poisonous Snakes.
Shepherd gives two additional HP per hit die, some inconsistencies in the calculations. Additionally, the Bear Spirit can add 11HP to everything you summon (at that level) so a lot of them can (but won't always) be almost twice as durable.
Twilight cleric 6
Shepherds Druid 14
Have fun!!!!
I use Dndbeyond to filter beast, CR and environment to determine the results of the conjure spells. I pick one of the options available but try to make it interesting for the player.
Is 8 Elks truly the best option? I thought it was 8 Giant Poisonous Snakes, since 1d4+4 + 3d6 (halved on save) is still a really sizeable chunk of damage. Also, Flying snakes are a great flyby option. In general, I think people too quickly dismiss poison options. They do insane damage when appropriate.
The jist of the video is: It depends.
I think they go simultaneously, but with their own, overlapping turns, similar to how you decided mounted combat works, or how identical creatures just roll initiative once and take their turns at the same time.
Maybe you agree, but it didn't seem that clear in the video, since you were distinguishing between "group turns" and "individual turns."
According to JC, they share initiative, but the turns are taken in sequence.
@@TreantmonksTemple Are you just taking that from the tweet at 3:37? Because they do have multiple turns, they just all go at the same time. I don't see what suggests that go one at a time.
Giant octopus can be used as a water mount. If you are using a mount-based character, water parts are hard.
Wow, I missed that velociraptors are TINY, like... the size of a cat.
Now just to convince my DM to let me use them 😂
Horse. I want to know more about draft horse, war horse, and riding horse. It seems like though you only get 4 warhorses, they aren’t too bad when compared to 8 draft horses. Bc move speed bonus, higher attack die (helps a little to mitigate differences) and I think they have a higher AC.
Riding horse idk when to use. Compared with draft horse and war horse. I guess if the party I was in was greater than 4 of us 🤣 for ground travel… but then again, flying options
I like your evaluations. Practical and backed up with the math, but you are looking at combat using conjured beasts overmuch in places and missed some advantages to be used found in observation (Perception), RP (conversation object) and other non-combat situations using such conjurations.
Can conjured animals use the Help action, if directed to do so by their conjurer? Tight, enclosed dungeon spaces might benefit more from a bunch of Tiny animals in the same way that Familiars are useful in that space.
Thank you I enjoyed this video. However, the spell says that DM picks the creature. A better video might be one that advises a DM how to pick *reasonable* (not necessarily optimized, but fits the location) creatures, in which case I still think this can be a good spell. As you say, it remains very situation dependent. At least the player gets to pick quantity and CR.
[Edit] just watched your Shepherd druid video where you discussed this from DM perspective - thanks again
How would you weigh in on the deinonychus for the two CR1 creatures option? Features that require you to move 20 feet in a straight line aren't always reliable, especially if they have a save attached after. However the deinonychus can potentially make 4 attacks in a round each if they can knock the target prone
Some of the Hitpoint values with shepherd druid seem a bit off, I noticed this especially in the cr1/4 section - its 2 per hit dice not 1.
I get that you were joking, but seriously an angry cow is very dangerous and you don't want to mess with them. Bull riding is a sport for a reason
I'm going to talk to my DM about this. I feel like they only put the ruling "DM chooses the creature" to prevent those crazy things like pixies or something. I hope if I tell my DM i'm going to stick to max 4 creatures at one time (so its not overboard on the map) and just typical beasts, think he'll be ok with me choosing them. fingers crossed!
Everyone: Rangers are the worst
Me: I summon 16-
DM: No, you are not allowed
I would imagine, if you get to decide you likely can only pick stuff your character has seen. Likely the same as once wild shapes. If one do not decide though, now that would be interesting. So say, I never walked into the underdark. However now I suddenly summon Fiendish Giant Spider's. Although sure I have not seen true Fiendish Giant Spider's at this point but would these be enough for me to now transform into one? Say dinosaurs are not alive in the DM's setting. Could this then be a way to argue you could still learn to become one?
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I do not know if it would actually do anything meaningful in practice, however I do like the idea of summoning 8 stirges. They only have 2 hp, however they are tiny with 40ft flyspeed and they attach to enemies! A 5 damage sting, so 40 damage if all would manage to attach themselves, and they go on to drain an average of 5 damage to a maximum of 10 from those they are sucking off. I can imagine all 8 of them swarming a T-Rex. So 40 sting damage in total. Not sure how a T-Rex would even kill any of them but sure, manages to kill 2 on its turn. 6 remaining for another 30 damage. Next round it looses another 20 from the last 2 sirges.
(I do realize after that I did not really bother to take the reality that these creatures will not always hit themselves)
At this point the stirges are pretty much done. I suppose you could order them to sting again, and keep dealing 5 damage. However I like the idea that they are now full and would not want to sting again. Or perhaps if they where ordered to keep sucking they would pop. XD However the creature who was attacked would probably be pretty freaked out about the 2 stirges that remain regardless of them no longer being a real threat. So even after they stop being a danger, most creatures would likely not rationalize that far.
In any case, that dealt 90 damage to a T-Rex. Stirges are meant to be like oversized bat mosquito's though. So they may very well be hard to notice even as they land and sting. Would a T-Rex really care that much about some tiny little bird things? Say it did not focus on them but rather on you. Now we talk 40*3. 40 for the innitial sting, 80 for the next 2 turns as they drink.
A T-Rex only has an average of 136 hp.
Is it the best way to harm something, probably not. Hehe, but I like someone else being the target of the stinging for once. I suppose wasp could be fun too. Still 5 sting damage, but every round. And even on a T-Rex I think its like 30% chance it fails the poison check of 11.
... Ehem. Its not as if I would be so sadistic as to carefully skin the creature alive if it just so happen to hit 0 hp due to the poison.
for conjure animals, any spell that you decide to cast every combat is a badly designed spell. I'm fine with the DM picking creatures because there are times when its healthy to pick something else. Its one of the reasons fireball is sometimes looked down on - "I just cast fireball" is practically a meme at this point.
Also with the elk example, your paladin could just ride one of the elk as a mount. Problem solved. heck, functioning as mounts, they would allow your group to outrun the golems if you needed to. Even against the Dao, assuming it wants to kill YOU, the elks could function as mounts and be very useful as mobility enhancers even if all of them can't directly deal damage at any one time. In the narrow corridor example, you could summon them as temporary walls. :P
For the giant constrictor (huge size) the creature technically occupies a cube doesn't it? So it is a 15' high wall, reach extends 20' of total height?
I luv fog cloud an giant bat as a combo.
And I just hit level 5 in Druid yesterday.
Is there a reason why you can't pick 8 different creatures all of CR 1/4? It seems like that would sometimes be incredibly powerful.
Where is the rule that says that velociraptors (tiny creatures) can all be in the same square?
If you need to breathe under water, shape into an actopus and facehug the party breathing for them. ... and if they dont like it slide into their stomach since more than an inch wide. Or conjure a bunch for dnd diving masks. Oh and rock octo would be funny if used diving into water then just not coming up to hide. Or poly or shape into it and hide out in a bag full of water and have someone catapult the bag into combat to restrain. Halfling summons 8 cows to ride to the next town, unfortunately they were stench cows and everyone suffocated.