WORST Parents in Warriors【DISCUSSION + SPEEDPAINT】
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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In today's video topic, I talk about some of the characters who have been considered to be the worst Warriors parents of all time, why they are considered bad parents, and whether or not I agree! I had a blast talking about this, especially because I've wanted to talk about a few of these characters for a while now. This topic was suggested by Pxckp!xy on Warriors Amino as a raffle prize!
Keep in mind that I didn't get to discuss a ton of characters just due to how long this video already is, so I tried to talk about the most interesting ones rather than the obvious ones. But if you guys enjoy this, I will consider making another video with the same topic with some of the characters I missed!
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Who do YOU think was the worst Warriors parent out of this selection? Let me know down below!
If you guys would like to see me talk about some more bad parents in the series, let me know! I know I only got to do a handful
I’d love it if you could make more of these! Once you read about palebird, that would be great! Also, there’s a lot more bad parents I think you could talk about as well! I love your videos so much, keep up the great work! I also think talking about Spiderleg would be very interesting
WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT MOON SHADOW?
In you what make worst for bluestar that sunstar wasn’t going make thistleclaw so she give up her for nothing !?
@@camillemontoya5374 So Mosskit died because Bluestar was being an insecure bitch. 🤦♀️
Because Sunstar spirit when he tell Bluestar that he know thistleclaw evil violent thirst for blood and war so yeah pretty much that Bluestar was worried for nothing then and because that she got mosskit kill
If tigerclaw was the runt of the litter, then imagine how big his sisters would be if they survived.
.
Oh gosh-
Oh, me... GOSH. THEY WOULD BE GIANT
I don't really want to
oh god
Oh... OH... OMG!!!!!!!!! 😱
XD
The idea of Brokenkit being left in thunderclan territory has peaked my interest lmao.
*time to create another AU*
Vulixee
Dark Brothers AU
Too the shock of everyone in Thunderclan, Leopardfoot adopts the orphan Brokenkit, saying that “No kit deserves to be left out in the cold”,
As Brokenkit and Tigerkit grow up together, a brotherly bond forms between the two, even when they become warriors, Tigerclaw and Brokentail.
They are adamant about Firepaw joining the clans, and they (along with Darkstripe and Longtail) constantly mock the young apprentice.
Since Brokentail didn’t take over Shadowclan, Yellowfang doesn’t join Thunderclan, and Spottedleaf doesn’t die and Frostfur’s kits aren’t stolen.
After a while Tigerclaw and Brokentail put together a plan, To KILL Bluestar, and Tigerclaw to become leader and Brokentail becomes his deputy.
Fireheart sees what’s going on, and attacks Tigerclaw, but Brokentail soon joins the fray, Fireheart realizes he’s outnumbered, and calls for help, Whitestorm hears Fireheart’s call and comes to his aid, Bluestar banishes both toms,
The now exiled Tigerclaw and Brokentail take over Shadowclan and Tigerclaw becomes Tigerstar and Brokentail becomes his deputy.
They eventually recruit Bloodclan and after Scourge kills Tigerstar, Brokentail becomes enraged and attacks Scourge,
Scourge then kills Brokentail as well,
After that, nothing really changes, Tiger and Broken still essentially “rule” the Dark Forest alongside Thistleclaw and Mapleshade. And recruit living cats to join them.
@@beastmaster0934 *This is beautiful*
Jawbreaker The Hyaenodon Amazing!
I was kinda thinking about Brokenkit actually turning out good do to a whole other setting lmao
I don’t think Rainflower was mentioned cause everyone who’s read Crookedstar’s promise or even heard about it knows that she isn’t a good mother and her actions against Crookedjaw can’t be justified. There’s no point in telling a story everyone knows.
Odd Ball I read CrookedStar's Promise
She was a devistated mother who couldn't accept reality for what it truly was.
@@dr.bright659 Nah, she was a superficial brat who wanted trophies instead of children.
@@tamayako2000 Debatable.
I think she was like that only because if he died then she wouldnt be as sad because she pushed him away
0:06 “You can call me honestly whatever you want”
Me: Ok Julio
*JHØÛŁÍŌØ*
*e x a c t l y*
Me: Okay, hello Pinekit
Okay Papa Smurf
Audrey Hoover heh
Me: Reads the title
*Rubs hands* So we’re talking about Rainflower tonight?
Edit: I was gone for a couple hours and now I can see that people, are debating wether Rainflower was a bad mom or not lmao. Thank you for the likes
Rolling Peaches surprisingly not
Wow Hello there yeahhh I thought that we were going to XD
I thought it was Rainflower too
Rolling Peaches Yeah I thought she was going to be on the list
Rainflower is on every. Single. List. It's honestly getting boring and I'm honestly starting to hate Crookedstar.
Palebird wasn't a good mother, but not a bad one. She was DEPRESSED. At least she didn't hate her kit.
Same here, she doesn't deserve the hate that she gets. I was also happy about her getting a new mate and kits at the end of the book
Sage Asir ... Rosie clearly asks you NOT to spoil in the begining of the video. She tells us she HAS NOT read about Palebird. I think behaving like this is rude, she spent a lot of time on this beautiful drawing and kindly asks the viewers to NOT spoil about Palebird.
Yeah, I really don't understand why people say she's a bad mom when she is obviously depressed and despite that she still show affection towards her kit. Honestly I found her mate (Sandsomething) way worse ._.
Being depressed doesn’t mean you are excused from being a bad parent, bad friend, bad kid, bad person.
I don’t even know who Palebird is, so..... :)
My favourite scene was when after Bluestar gave up her kits she went to talk with Sunstar and it was like:
Sunstar: lol i would just wait for you to get out of the nursery to make you deputy. Thistleclaw is too violent.
Bluefur: bruh
Yeah that was funny imo. R. I. P. Mosskit
This isn't really a spoiler for the plot of Tallstar's Revenge, but *Palebird had depression, you guys.* Obviously, this wouldn't excuse any actions of hers, but she was merely distant. She loved Tallkit and didn't try to harm him in any way, unlike Rainflower or Lizard(stripe? Tail? I forgot).
She overcomes her depression later and gets a mate that makes her happy. Then she can support Talltail and her new litter wholeheartedly.
*Palebird loves Tallstar, and Tallstar loves Palebird.*
yeah. palebird's story was so sad.
Also, her actions weren’t at all unforgivable, if anything they were quite kind of her for what she was dealing with. The problem is she had postpartum depression and didn’t have an emotional support group, she seemed widely alone. She probably thought even Sandgorse only saw her as someone to make more tunnelers out of. It makes me wonder if there was anything behind the scenes in her relationship with the tom that made her move on so quick.
to be fair, implying that bluestar should be held accountable for her kits unfortunate death that she couldnt have possibly predicted in an attempt to get them over to their father in riverclan for safety but then implying mapleshade should NOT be held accountable for her kits unfortunate death that she couldnt have possibly predicted in an attempt to get them over to their father in riverclan for safety doesnt make much sense to me.
Bluestar was literally given a vision that if she didnt become deputy, thistleclaw WOULD and would destroy the clan.
yeah maybe she should have waited for the snow to die down before moving the kits, but theres no garuntee things would have ended ANY differently if she had since the snow and the cold would have reasonably lasted all season.
Saying one death was something that the mother should be held accountable for while the other death was something the mother could have never predicted and should be mourned over is a really weird stance to take in my opinion.
Bluestar had a choice- there were so many other options, she could've waited for the snowstorm to pass or simply given her kits to One-Eye to resume her warrior duties and become deputy. for Mapleshade, she needed to be off the territory by sunset- she couldn't go to WindClan or ShadowClan, so her only option was RiverClan.
@@skyshale The fickle thing is that, plenty times in the book they mention fate. As in it was fate that it was to happen. So maybe mosskit was meant to die no matter what. Like final destination or something.
@@skyshale ahhh yes but would the clan accept that? A she cat pushing aside her duty to her kits for deputy position would not sit well with anyone and sunstar wasn’t going to appoint a nursing queen deputy or else he wouldn’t imply that thistleclaw would take tawnyspots place when the time came. There was very little choice bluestar had in reality much like mapleshade if we are being fair.
@@abrahamjean8176
We have seen it happen in the other books
Fernsong agreed that once the kits were old enough to eat prey he would stay in the nursery so Ivypool could return to her Warrior duties
@@skyshale She could have also gone off clan territory altogether then go to RiverClan if she really felt she had to.
Ahh, I see.
Rainflower
Also Clearsky
Personally.
My least favorite cat.
Mewmacree yes he is a D- I mean Jerk
I HATE clear sky!
Im the only one in the world who likes him but yes he is rude
Cedar the cloud fox huh??? He’s such a jerk.
@@serenegenerally Yes i know i just always like the villains.
I rlly don’t blame Pinestar for leaving Tigerkit, Leopardfoot, and the rest of ThunderClan. If we’re being honest here, what else could he have done? The only options were to ignore Starclan, and continue to be tormented by them telling him to kill his only son in order to protect the forest, kill Tigerkit, or leave the clans. I may be biased, as he’s one of my fav characters, but I don’t think he made a bad decision at all. He was in a lose-lose situation. And I’m happy that he ended up finding a place he belonged and was loved in the end.
Celestial-Vapidity either way it was fate, goosefeathers curse covers this.
most people hate pinestar for his decision but how could you kill your own son?
He was right not to kill Tigerkit because the "Fire alone can save our clans" probably wouldn't of happened because I think Fire was meant to the the forest from Tiger. If Tigerkit was dead Fireheart would of never entered the forest.
I completely agree.
By the fandoms logic he would be a great dad if he ended up killing his newborn son cause dead people told him too!!!
Ya, by Pinestar doing that, he kinda showed that he was a good dad. I mean, jeez, Starclan stooped REALLY low pressuring to kill his own newborn son, who was the weakest of the litter at the time. Pinestar isn’t a bad dad, he just did what was right. He couldn’t kill his son. He loved him too much
PLUS, Brightflower did feel so guilty she didn’t want to go to Starclan....
@Cookie Lord That is correct. She could never let it go. That's why she went to the Dark Forest. I really wish that there was a scene with Brightflower and Yellowfang in the Last Hope.
Fawn_Draws how do you know she went to the dark forest?
@@aubreygonzalez2320 following because I want to know too
Turtle Warrior lol
Wasn't that "Brightflower in Dark Forest" thing revoked a long time ago?
I know Viki made Bluestar give up her kits because she wanted to address the issue of Women having to choose between rasing their children and their career. I love that she addressed the issue and I feel like I remember in Bluestars Prophecy there was talk around the camp of either her or Thistleclaw becoming deputy but I may be wrong. It's been years since I've read it
Yeah
Ooo. If we get talkin bout Pinestar leavin Tigerpaw, imma be happ
If we talk about Rainflower, IMMA WATCH THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN
Mhm, we all know the crown for the worst parent goes to Rainflower :V
Lol- 69 likes haha
If Mapleshade couldn't see the death of her kits, neither could Bluestar. Simple as that. To be fair, Rainflower is the worst parent, she abandoned her son simply because he was disfigured, and she couldn't look at him the same way.
I disagree, Bluestar clearly planned out how she was going to take her kits to Riverclan and had time to think things through. She also could have gotten the help of her clanmates in either helping her raise the kits or bringing them over to Riverclan. Mapleshade had neither of these and while I still think Mapleshade is responsible for the death of her kits, Bluestar is arguably more responsible for the death of Mosskit.
@@coffeewolfproductions9113 Then why didn’t Mapleshade use the twoleg bridge?
@@muddy_snows7534 I honestly couldn't tell you, there isn't an answer given in the text.
@@muddy_snows7534 I feel like she did not since she was so depressed over her getting exiled and kits.
Mapleshade was super different, though. Bluestar didn't have to move her kits to RiverClan during a blizzard, but she did. She could have easily waited a few days, but she didn't, she just had to do something that could be dangerous at any time- during a blizzard.
Mapleshade was exiled, along with her kits, and she was confused, sad, and probably pretty scared, so she probably wasn't thinking clearly at all. Plus, maybe the twoleg bridge hadn't been built yet (or if it had, it was either less known about or they weren't sure it was safe and Mapleshade didn't want to risk it). Also, she wouldn't have known that there was gonna be an entire flash flood WHILE SHE WAS ON THE ROCKS. Bluestar could have seen that there was a snowstorm and turned back, or she could have just not moved her kits at all. Mapleshade was exiled, and she could have totally thought ahead to "well I shouldn't be mates with a cat from another Clan who accidentally killed my Clanmate because I might get exiled" and after her kits were born she could have thought "well I shouldn't bring my kits to the river because someone might get suspicious and I would probably get in trouble" but there's a lot of things she couldn't have seen coming. She certainly didn't know that there would be a flash flood while she and her kits were in the middle of the river.
Mapleshade chose what she thought was the best choice as quick as she could when she wasn't thinking clearly and it ended up being the wrong choice, while Bluestar chose what she thought was the best choice with plenty of time to think through it and it ended up being the wrong choice.
lol
I know that Clear Sky did what he did for a reason but he was clearly the worst parent out of these. He rejected his son, a kit who wouldn't be able to survive on his own, without knowing if Tall Shadow would let Thunder stay. Clear Sky later on invited Thunder to his clan by telling his son that his rejection was nothing but a test, which was a very cruel thing to do especially since he didn't let his son say goodbye to his clanmates. Clear Sky also became Star Flower's mate even tho he knew what she had done to his son.
Personally, I like Clear Sky, but I can see where the dislike comes from. Dunno, I’m weird :p
Cookie Lord same, we all just gotta respect each other for our opinions, it’s kind of dumb how many arguments I’m seeing here-
something i don't think people understand is that intentions and reasons don't really matter here. clear sky is a bad parent, no question about it- probably the worst parent in this series. it doesn't matter how bad he felt. he was a bad parent.
I Think Clear Sky's Decent During And After His Redemption Arc..
*And Remember Really? Tall Shadow Was Unsure About Letting Thunder Stay.. Gray Wing Had To Threaten Leaving XD*
I'm not trying to be rude or saying my opinion on the matter, but there's really two ways to look at Bluestar abandoning her kits.
In the book, it says after she has her kits that she saw them in a pool of blood because Thistleclaw became leader, and he led then Clan to endless bloodshed. When she tells Sunstar she's pregnant, he says he would have liked to make her deputy, and then looks at Thistleclaw, hinting that if Bluestar hadn't given up her kits, he would have. In a way, she was trying to protect her kits.
However, she really shouldn't of done it during a snow storm, when they could've (and one did) died. She shouldn't even have had the one night stand in the first place, because she knew she could've gotten pregnant.
Also, while she wasn't directly a good mother to Mistystar and Stonefoot, she did indirectly help them live longer than they would have, and Mistystar probably wouldn't have become leader if she didn't give them up.
It's really a matter of perspective. If you had children and had to give them up to save them their lives, would you?
Once again, not defending Bluestar. I can see the angle she's coming from, that she was giving them up to save them, but honestly she made so many stupid mistakes regarding them that it's honestly hard to think her more than okay.
I wholeheartedly agree :D
Exactly, I personally see Bluestar as a good mom. Though the outcome was bad, she was doing what she thought was best.
*Stonefur
But yea, agree.
People also forgot that she has a pressure because of Goosefeather. When she got pregnant, he got mad, telling her it wasn't part of the prophecy.
In the warrior cat culture, if your medicine cat is telling you you're messing up a prophecy, you're supposed to listen to him. I know he has already retired by the time but it still count, regarding as he told Bluefur about the prophecy when he was still medicine cat.
I think my problem is that she says Mapleshade is a good mother for trying to save her kits and killing all of them (Accident or no), but Bluestar is bad for trying to save her kits but getting **one** killed... Doesn't feel like the same ball is being thrown here.
I think it's kind of hypocritical to defend Mapleshade's reckless action of bringing her kits across the river (getting all three of them killed) when she could've gone to any other place while the river was swollen, but attack Bluestar's reckless action of bringing her kits through a snow storm (getting one of them killed) when she could've waited a while. I'm not saying Bluestar's prophecy was well written, as there were only a few good moments and the book is constantly misinterpreted, but the action itself was intended to save the clan and her kits by proxy. Sometimes you have to give up your children to give them a good life. I don't think either of the parents should be called inherently bad because they accidentally got their kits killed in a scenario where they didn't know the risk, and while it's fair to criticize Bluestar over giving away her children, I don't think its fair to whale on her while uplifting Mapleshade. There has to be a standard of judgement.
(for context, the snowy-road situation applies to my own grandparents and stepdad, though with different methods. it hurts alot knowing people who've lost children because of one or two bad decisions, and seeing fictional characters in the same scenario called bad parents or neglectful parents at times.)
Oh wow this is long, but I absolutely agree with you
exactly
I agree although i have to question wtf was going through the're heads when the both decided to intinioly put the're kits in Dangerous situations like wtaf is worng with you!?
To be fair. Bluestar CHOSE to take her kits in the snow. where as mapleshade didn't have any other choice. you make dumb decisions when in a panic.
@@dillonbauer6559idk mapleshade was very careless, she took the kits to swim in the river before being exiled to show off to appledusk? He even told her they’re too young to be swimming. She put them in danger before even being exiled for no reason too 😭
Stormtail kind of murdered me in Bluestar’s Prophecy. His mate was Moonflower, and it seemed he didn’t give a shit when she died and didn’t even worry about what his kits were feeling when she died. Then later he falls in love with Dappletail and that kinda just crushed me. *OoF, RiP BlUeStAr*
I mean his whole "arc" is flirting with younger woman in front of his familly shamelessly so....
Ya, Stormtail is a bad father. He doesn’t know what loyalty means. He just hyped up Moonflower since she was a kit, knocked her up when she was a warrior, and then left her. *DUDE*
@@romayora5844 I am only at the beginning of the book but the fact that Goosefeather was acting nicer and more fatherly towards Bluekit and Snowkit when they first met their father, heck Goosefeather would make a better father than that fool - it just made me feel so sad that he barely looked at them then chose to go to Pinestar 10 seconds later, like Pinestar can wait a minute or so for you to actually interact with your kits.
I Disagree with your opinion on maple'shade. She wasn't very bright about keeping the secret and her kits safe. she took them to play by the river in BROAD DAYLIGHT, that's how raven'wing saw them! And she knew that she shouldn't have gone to the gathering with apple'dusk if she wanted to keep the secret more secure. And I Do Blame her for her kits deaths because Petal'kit even said that it looked dangerous but maple'shade DIDN'T listen. If a KIT can spot the danger, she should have too. Personally, I Think she's a hypocrite because she blamed apple'dusk for their kits deaths, when he SAVED her and tried to save them also. He could've easily let them drown but he chose not to. And In freckle'wish's defense she was dealing with grief and a liar on her back, maple'shade let her WHOLE CLAN believe that her kits were the kits of the deceased birch'face, who is freckle'wish's BROTHER, I Think She Had A Reason To Be Upset With Her. Maple'shade lied to her whole clan thinking it would keep her kits safe, but it really destroyed their lives. I Do Believe she was a caring mother and she was filled with joy when she had them with her but she made the wrong choice. her kits could have survived if she had listened to petal'kit. So I'll Give Her A 4/10.
In actual loving parent, I believe Mapleshade is like a solid 8/10. Sensible/good parent I agree
okay but every time you put a ' between the warrior cats' names is really fucking annoying
@@Red-mq5ne to me it made it hard to read >_
@@Red-mq5ne I do it because every time I write a name it tries to auto correct
I agree with you on everything but the last bit:
Mapleshade mainly saw the kits as a means to strengthen hers and Appledusk's relationship. There were scenes in which she seems to truly love them, but she more often than not uses them.
Some scenes off the top of my head that support my argument.
The scene where Maple lets Freckle believe the kits are her dead brother's, and Freckle gets close to Maple and the kits. Maple thinks something along the lines of: ' These kits are mine! ' and seethes with hatred and rage or something.
The scene in chapter 1, I think, where she tells Apple about her being pregnant, and afterwards, Reedshine pulls up like ' Hey Appledusk, look what this elder is saying, so funny! ' and after he leaves, Maple thinks something like ' Stay away from him, Reedshine! Appledusk is mine, these kits will ensure that! '
Yeah, so they're the only ones I can think of, lol, but yeah. And I know this video was 3 years ago, but hey, I've written this much.
i hate clear sky because he exiled Jagged peak, just because he broke his leg, and i know animals do kill off or leave the weak to die in the wild, but Jagged Peak didnt deserve to be left alone by someone he looked up too...
And Clear sky rejected his son. TWICE. tbh, I was glad that Quiet Rain nearly disowned him when she found out. He deserved it
not enough people hate clear sky
@@snepshenanigans1127 dude I think everyone hates him. Every time he's brought up there are always tons of comments about how much they hate him. But, he's a good character just not a good cat that's what rose's point was.
Finn Snow
Some people like him... for some reason. I, like most people, absolutely DESPISE him.
Yeah like seriously! Jagged Peak is literally Clear Sky's brother! He should've helped him heal his injury not kick him out of his group!
At least Mapleshade actually loved her kits.
Edit: oof 19 likes? Thanks guys.
Alyssa Baney she loved them, but didnt understand their needs
She. Got. Them. Killed
@@bladedaicewing2378 It's. Oakstar's. Fault.
@@وداعاتوني he. Was. Doing. His. Job. As. A. Leader.
@@bladedaicewing2378 Well Oakstar could have just kept the kits and just kicked Mapleshade out. The kits didn't do anything wrong.
Being a loving mother doesn't mean being a good mother. Mapleshade was really careless.
She snuck out her kits to see Appledusk despite him warning it was dangerous, and lo and behold, Ravenwing sees them and understands the prophecy he was seeing. I dunno why you were saying Bluestar was a bad mother for accidentally causing the death of one of her kits while you say Mapleshade was a fantastic mother when she did the same thing. Mapleshade had other options too, she could've waited for a Riverclan patrol or carried her kits over one by one instead of expecting them to grip onto her fur through rough waters whilst being so tiny. Like I said, Mapleshade was a loving mother, but not a sensible or even good one.
Appledusk's reaction can be seen as similar to Brightflower's: they were both grieving and shunned the one they believed caused their kits' deaths.
Mapleshade killed the cats that she irrationally believed caused her kits' deaths, but really the only ones responsible was Oakstar for banishing the kits and Mapleshade herself for not thinking things through.
I get especially mad when she blames Frecklewish. I mean, she thought your kits were gonna be saved by Riverclan, and being Thunderclan, she can't swim? You yourself are proof of that as if it weren't for Appledusk fishing you out, you would have drowned yourself? How is that cat more guilty than the one who exiled you?
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID THAT
+ there was a bridge nearby, she talks about it not too long after- that would've been 100000000 times safer than jumping from stone to stone.
Literally! Oakstar didn't have to exile the kits! He could've just exiled Mapleshade! But noooooo, had to exile the 2-3 month old, helpless kits! He literally broke the warrior code by doing that
If she went for one by one trouble still would've been stirred, but not as much. At least someone would still die from the flash flood.
@@themaskedmaxxi U have a point.
Starclan sent Bluestar signs telling her that thistleclaw would "make the forest run red" or something like that if she kept her kits
Personally, I disagree with Mapleshade being a 'fantastic' mother. Being a loving parent does not mean being a smart or 'good' parent.
When crossing the river, Petalkit herself mentioned the flooded river, and Mapleshade chose to ignore it. Before the secret came out, Mapleshade purposefully left the Thunderclan camp with her underage kits, even checking to not be 'scrutinized'. Hell, that poor decision alone led to Milkfur yelling at her about such a bad move & her relationship with Appledusk coming to light. In many paragraphs, it's revealed that a lot of her hatred came from her failed relationships and her lost future accomplishments, rather than the death of her kits themselves. Of course, she is still a grieving mother and did love her kits, but she was certainly not a sensible parent.
^^^
Exactly.
I think she was decent, up to the river scene. At the time, she didn't have a choice but to cross the river since no other clan could let her or her kits in. I completely forgot she had other relationships.
Miss Draco she did have a choice
@@moved1292 Yes, actually, there was a bridge close to the fourtrees.
@@mysryuza I mean, I understand why people believe that, especially with it raining heavily and such, but she could've done anything but go in the river. At least kittypets and other clans might take pity, but choosing an unforgiving force of nature that's widely unpredictable? Even *riverclan* cats knew better.
To be honest, I hate how Mapleshade is written in the first part of Mapleshade's Vengeance. I'm sorry, but there's no way she would be that stupid. In Crookedstar's Promise, she's established to be manipulative and cunning, and you need to have at least some intelligence to be so. But maybe I'm biased because I loved Mapleshade before reading Mapleshade's Vengeance and already had an idea of what her character should be. I think most of the super editions/novellas/whatever are very poorly written because they're usually excuses for why things happened in the main series or backstory no one needs. Mapleshade's Vengeance? Why Mapleshade went to the DF. Spottedleaf's Heart? Why Thistleclaw went to the DF and why Spottedleaf is a medcat (even tho in the main series it's said she always wanted to be a medcat.) Yellowfang's Secret? Yellowfang's backstory and how Brokenstar became evil. I'm all for giving backstory to characters, but it would be greatly appreciated if they were kept consistent.
Sorry, this turned into a super edition rant. My point is Mapleshade is a better mother in my hc than in her book because super editions and novellas and crap seem to always change some aspect that's already been established. The only valid super edition is Tallstar's Revenge.
Well it’s only valid because it largely doesn’t take place at the same time as a lot of the others from what I see.
@@abrahamjean8176
Tallstar became a deputy when Crookedstar became a warrior from what I remember
I actually also just really hated the way Mapleshade's Vengeance is written, so much so that I decided to just make a headcanon that her death was a near-death experience, she was brought back to ThunderClan, she continued going insane and killing because she soon also couldn't help but feel satisfaction toward others in pain, not able to feel sympathy for anyone, not even being happy in ThunderClan anymore, and, until she actually died completely, no except Nettlebreeze believed she killed Frecklewish or Ravenwing (because the hay from Myler's barn covered her scent). I also imagine her as just in general having been extremely aggressive in general, and only Appledusk and her kits mellowed her out until their deaths. The wiki also said that she used to be a highly-respected warrior before she took Appledusk as a mate. I also decided to headcanon that a few toms (those being Birchface, thus making Frecklewish think he was the kits' father, and Beetail) had crushes on her, but she initially didn't want a mate. After that, she couldn't love anymore. I'm working on a fanfic that explains all this on my Wattpad. I'm relatively neutral on Mapleshade, but I can't help but feel like her novella just didn't provide enough depth to her backstory
@@staycuteunikitty3527 I don’t like the way she’s written as well. She just seems so… stupid? She thinks that telling the clans her kits are also Appledusks would be a good idea and that they’d eventually forget about his death. She does many odd things in her book that make no sense to me-
@@meeplol145 Yeah. I keep Mapleshade's recklessness in my fanfic, but in this case she's attacking RiverClan patrols unprovoked, starting battles, and stuff like that
Mapleshade had been previously told in the book by a river clan cat that her kits were too young to swim. She ignored this, and chose to be selfish and go "take back Appledusk" by using her kits to get accepted into his clan. She was motivated by obsession and selfishness. Loving your children isn't the only thing that makes someone a good parent.
I haven't read Dawn of the Clans, but I've read Mothflight's vision and i think it's safe for me to say. . . I cannot stand Clear Sky. He pretty much indirectly killed his own medicine cat. Micah's death was one of the few scenes I actually teared up at. . . Micah is probably one of my favorite characters.
I don't know if you have started to read DOTC, but it explains why Clear Sky acted the way he did. Your gonna hate him a lot more before it gets better.
Micahs death pissed me off-
Fluffo Husko same here. He was such a great character! What really confused me though is how did Moth flight get pregnant? She barely met Micah before he died!😂 not that I mind, I just thought it was weird
@@romayora5844 Mind connection or something xD I guess that they were meeting off screen O.o There have been times where they walked togther between clans so probably somewhere there, also they were studying in Riverclan and then went to Thunderclan so it could've happened between there~
Same I like micah
I completly agree with you for Mapleshade. People are always saying that she used them, but that's not true ! She was always taking care of them and she almost died for them. For me, it's nobody's fault if they died, it was an accident.
I was really worried that you too were going to say that Mapleshade killed her kits.
@@norppasoppa No she didnt. Maybe I'm just defending her because she's one of my favorite cats, but she did not indirectly kill her kits. She had no other choice than to cross the river. As much as I love her, I have to say, she could've crossed it safer. Maybe walk across the Twoleg-Bridge etc. But still, she's not responsible for her kits death.
@@norppasoppa Yeah, but I dont really get why Rainflower isnt mentioned. She is the glorious example of a bad mother 😂
Piragua guy * kills 5 other cats due to insanity *
Emily Lange She is responsible for her kits’ deaths. She forced them to cross the river even after Petalkit said there was too much water, she could have waited and called a patrol over or stated at fourtrees. If she had waited her kits would still be alive.
Colfwat loves Snol
O_O
Well, I didn’t expect to see you here XD
I would really love some time stamps next time Rose , I was bout to be spoiled on clear sky.
Also, Stormtail was an ass in Goosefeather’s curse but I agree about the Moonflower thing, I don’t think it was on purpose.
I agree with you, but that's the exact reason she gives you a few seconds to speed up by saying the names and pausing before her story of the character. What sucks is the fact you don't know when that character's story ends
Mapleshade loved her kits as an extension of herself. She was obsessed with appledusk and wanted to use those kits to forever tie him to her, she even says so in her novella. They were a means to an end
Cool headcannon bro /s
So I'm just gonna go on a bunch of mini rants about bad parents now
Spoilers for: Mapleshade's Vengeance, Bluestar's Prophecy, and Pinestar's Choice
First, I'm going to address why I don't think Mapleshade was a bad mother. This one's kinda simple; she had no choice but to cross the river. ThunderClan hated her. ShadowClan was too hostile. WindClan was too far away for tiny kits to walk. While Twolegplace was a viable option, Mapleshade probably wouldn't process it as such because of really stupid Clan cat supremacy. So, by process of elimination, that left one option- RiverClan. In flood season, which Oakstar was perfectly aware of. Technically, Oakstar wasn't even supposed to exile Patchkit, Petalkit, and Larchkit. The Warrior Code states to always accept kits regardless of what their parentage is. I'm pretty sure they were also still on Mapleshade's milk, and there were no other nursing queens in ThunderClan at the time, so he shouldn't have exiled Mapleshade at the time. That one's a bit of a stretch, though. Yeah, Mapleshade became a mass murderer, which is a bad thing, but that has nothing to do with how good of a parent she is.
Bluestar annoys me. A lot. One-eye was nursing Runningkit and Mousekit at the same time that Bluestar was nursing Mistykit, Stonekit, and Mosskit. She didn't even have to give them up, really. She could have just arranged something with Sunstar and One-eye; when Bluestar was doing deputy duties and couldn't take care of her kits, One-eye would take care of them for her. Once they were off milk, One-eye could babysit while Bluestar does her duties. Boom! Done! That's it! That's all she had to do. She could still be deputy, Thistleclaw wouldn't cause bloodshed, everything would be fine, and Bluestar would still be happy with her kits.
The main cat that I want to bring up is Oakstar. Oakstar was the ThunderClan leader during Mapleshade's time, and is also the father of Pinestar. How is he a bad father to Pinestar? He constantly, constantly, CONSTANTLY pressures Pinestar into being the best apprentice, the best warrior, and the best leader. He never seemed to want Pinestar to be his own person. I'm no psychologist, but I'm pretty sure that's toxic parenting, and sort of manipulative.
If you can't tell, my least favorite character is Oakstar.
I really agree about Bluestar, she had so many options other than endangering her babies lives by dragging them through a blizzard. Like, she couldn't have talked to Sunstar like, "hey, this Thistleclaw guy is really violent, maybe make ANYONE ELSE deputy." Aside even from that, she couldn't wait for a day that didn't have conditions so hostile her toddlers could die in transit? Far fetched. She was willing to risk her kits' lives because she was power hungry and nobody can convince me otherwise
Yeah, I feel like Bluestar was just really hypocritical. It would have been easy to arrange something or pick a different day. But NO, Bluestar has to endanger her children just to become deputy. It didn't even HAVE to be between Bluestar and Thistleclaw! There were many other warriors who were good options.
I she had better choises but she was probally in such a state of panic and she didn't know that appledusk wouldd have turned on her.
Oakstar is just a worst version of Sandgoorse.
Uh no? The raids aren't an excuse. The only happened ONCE and it was AFTER MapleShade was exiled. They weren't attacking any kittypets, their goal was to scare them.
I dont really think pinestar was 'bad' at IT cuz he had to kill tigerkit and choose not to. Yes he leaved but i think more Cats would have done that if they were in his position. Soooo he is not really 'bad' but he had flaws ofcourse.
Love the vid btwww
Oakstar
|
Pinestar
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Tigerstar
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Bramblestar
HMMMMMMMM
What is it with terrible fathers having terrible kits and having them become terrible leaders?
Wasn’t there a scene in Bluestar’s prophecy after she gave up her kits (or close to it) where Sunstar talked to her in the woods, saying how Thistleclaw was too battle driven to be deputy? He said he didn’t want to choose him anyways. A lot of the super editions and novellas are not well written, unfortunately.
Late, but ya I agree. Bluestar should’ve trusted her mentor more. I mean, he isn’t blind! Everyone knew how power hungry thistleclaw was. And yes, the novellas and SEs aren’t written well. The only SEs i enjoyed were tallstars revenge, Crookedstar’s promise, and Crowfeather’s trial
Ok but he told her that after she did that. How was she to know that he thought that when he didn’t take her complaints seriously in front of her and it was implied by both sunstar and the rest of the clan that thistleclaw was going to be the next choice? She went off what she saw and knew and I do t think she should be held guilty for trying to make things right.
@@abrahamjean8176 Damn, maybe she could've you know, spoke to someone about that. What were her complaints? She never spoke to him. She never spoke to Sunstar about most of her problems. She didn't talk about what happened with Tiny or anything.
"This wasn't the result of Mapleshade being a bad mother."
Imma stop you right there Rose.
First of she lied about her kits father. It was a lie of omission but it was still a lie, and a very bad one considering the wound of losing Birchface was still so fresh. Not to mention she had to have realised how terrible it would look that claiming Appledusk's kits being Birchface would look from the final reveal. Appledusk killed him and while it might have been accidental, they clearly blamed him.
She goes on to let her kits believe they were Birchface's litter which is messed up considering she planned to reveal to the kits and the clans the truth. This is not being a good mother.
Second. She took her kits out of camp when they were way too young. Even the kits knew they were too young, but Mapleshade wanted to leave because she couldn't stand questions about why the kits wouldn't jump as high as their 'father' (again through her own doing). Even during that scene, she quickly gets up, causing Patchkit to go tumbling off her as he was laying beside her. She showed no sympathy for him, her focus was purely on making sure her lie wasn't found out.
She takes her kits (again too young to go outside of camp) to the river and lets them swim around. When one of them starts to show signs of being tired and can't swim back to shore, Mapleshade doesn't run in to collect him like a brave mother. She tells her other kits (who are also tried and exhausted) to go get him. She doesn't want her fur wet, or to risk herself going to swim for him. She'd rather TINY BABY KITTENS go do it for her.
That whole chapter alone showed her selfish nature and that while she may have loved her kits, she put herself first.
And last is obviously the drowning scene. Mapleshade had a thousand other options rather than take those kits over the river. She could have found a sheltered spot outside of Thunderclan for the night. She could have taken her kits to the barn. She could have went to Twolegs, even in her desperate situation. Her first priority should have been to care for her kits and it wasn't. All she wanted to do was to go to Appledusk and be accepted as a Riverclan cat with his kits, and for that she risked taking her small tiny kits over a river while it was storming. Now obviously she doesn't know the river well, but a simple look at the water being rough would tell you "Oh, that's unsafe."
Are the kits deaths solely her fault? No, that blame goes to a whole bunch of cats, but Mapleshade, the one who should have had those kits safety at top priority in her mind, didn't. She has been shown as nothing but selfish and, again, while she quite clearly loved her kits, love isn't enough to be a good mother. The only time she ever had her kits as the top priority in her mind was after they were dead, and that was for revenge.
Just because you kill a bunch of cats because your kits died, doesn't mean you're a good mother. Just because the fandom want to see her as a badass wronged cat who went to the extreme for her kits doesn't mean it's true.
Mapleshade is one of the worst mothers in Warriors.
I'll get hate for this comment, no doubt, but I will go to my deathbed with this fact.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU
I don't think that lying about who fathered her kits makes her a bad parent necessarily--she only kind of went with that after Frecklewish suggested the idea and if it's supposed to help her stay in Thunderclan, then that's a risk that I can 100% see her taking if it means she and her kits can stay in a clan. I do also think it's a stretch to say that she wasn't a good mother because she accidentally knocked her kit over when she quickly got up. I also don't think it was storming when she took the kits to Riverclan, the wave was described to have come out of nowhere--she had started crossing and then when she saw the wave she tried to hurry. And I can see why she'd want to take them to Riverclan--who wouldn't want to live with their mate AND kits? Plus she clearly wasn't getting revenge for herself, it was because she thought her kits needed that to move on and be happy.
That being said, I assumed the reason why she was voted up at all was because her kits died, so that's what I focused on in the video. It helped me save time rather than to intensely research every different book that was in this video, and so I forgot about scenes like that that weren't entirely crucial to the story... a lot of information just slips past you once you've read so many of these books haha. The rest of what you said doesn't really sound that good on her end, and had that been pointed out to me prior (and I kind of wish it was, would have been more interesting), I wouldn't have said she was bad, but I think I'd have given her more of a "meh" rating, like Stormtail. I don't think she was entirely selfish though--she kind of just seems more rash. She maybe wasn't the best mother in terms of decision-making, but I think that she definitely had a lot of redeemable qualities when it came to how she treated and cared for them.
AMAZING POINTS!! completely agree, OP.
rose, though, the quote you said, "And I can see why she'd want to take them to Riverclan--who wouldn't want to live with their mate AND kits?", is why she is a bad mother. she fails to think about their future and how exhausted and overwhelmed the kits would have had to have been. she should have been worried about finding a place to spend the night and getting to riverclan in the morning. even if she didn't anticipate the storm coming, the kittens were exhausted, and terrified, and hungry. she mentions that she didn't even get to lay down to feed them after taking them out swimming when she gets back to camp. her irresponsibility is what makes her a bad mother.
she had some sense of love for her kits, but i think it should really be emphasized that having love for your children does NOT make you a good mother. trust me, from personal experience, i would know. she loves her kits, genuinely for who they are, but there is a part of her that is embarrassed and prideful to the point of endangering their entire futures (not only by inadvertently causing their drowning, but also by lying about who their father is). she is not a good mother, at all and in any sense, in my opinion.
I swear, reading Yellowfang's secret .... I am shocked that garbage like Lizardstripe made it to Star clan. Also Brightflower just shocked me - she saw Yellowfang playing with the kits and she still believed that Yellowfang resented the kits and killed them - I understand that grief is powerful but that part just shocked me.
MapleShade loves her kits but also wanted to use them as a tool as well and planned they're entire life, I do not like mapleshade very much but I do have sympathy if her kits, my problem is that she always was manipulative and never thought to try to join her kits and partner in starclan she said she liked the dark forest, there wasn't anything for vengeance or at least a little bit of reflect and kind of realized what she did was wrong or wanted vengeance, if that happened I'd most likely like her villain or character more
The worst parent is Rainflower in my opinion.
Late, but same. I hated her so much in crookedstars promise. I’m sad that she didn’t go to the dark forest😅
I am surprised that she didn't make it onto the list- I read Crookedstar's promise and I just felt so freaking bad for him, he is one of my favourite characters and I am glad that he didn't turn evil because of her but her resentment and mistreating was just horrible to read + she never even bothered to apologize or at least show up at his leadership ceremony after she died- I felt zero sympathy for her and I was almost happy when she died.
Agree
*Who else thought it was Rainflower when they read the title?*
Edit: Thanks for all the likes! I never get this much! Enjoy your day! 👍
I first thought it would be Clearsky, or Onestar.
Jade West
I actually agree with that, thanks for replying your opinion, I love reading opinions.
@@iliketodraw8048 Glad to hear :)
Jade West
😁
Pinestar lmao
As I was typing this you said Lizardstripe and I WAS THINKING THAT
Stormtail is a terrible father. He was just as bad as my father, who wouldn't even willingly touch me and my sister. Wouldn't hold hands with us, and wouldn't hug us. It hurt so much when he did that. Stormtail is a bad father
THANK YOU! I felt a bit uneasy hearing that she didn't find that part of him bad at all. Even by Warrior Cat standards, he's a bad dad, like how Spiderleg ignored his kits despite cats telling him that he's being a horrible father because of it.
[Spoilers ahead for pinestar and tigerkit]
In all honesty, Pinestar was forced to leave. He had to cope with the fact that his last surviving kit would become evil no matter whatand that starclan was harassing him to end his life. Goosefeather also tried to convince him to so I don't blame him for leaving
Mapleshade may have loved her kits, but she was still a bad mother because she was irresponsible. She chose to cross the river with her kits, knowing how dangerous it was. Plus she DID have a choice. She didn’t know for sure wether the other Clans would accept her, she just assumed, they wouldn’t and so her kits died because of it.
Well basically lionheart couldn't be the chosen one as a deputy because he was too young and didn't even have an apprentice
And Sunstar even looked at Thistelclaw while saying something like: "I thought you would be the one but star clan chosed another destiny for you."to Bluefur.
So we can go on seeing sunstar thought Thistelclaw will get deputy
Sry if I made a mistake I'm a german one lol.
So Bluestar is a bad mom for taking her kits out in a snowstorm, but Mapleshade isn't a bad mom for making her kits cross a river? That's hella hypocritical lmao.
Well I mean. Bluestar chose to take her kits out during a snowstorm. There was no real rush and she could've chosen a clearer night to lead them. Mapleshade and her family was exiled without mercy and had to leave then and there. Crossing the river to seek help from her mate was the obvious first choice to make.
SevenZee She still chose to cross the river even after Petalkit mentioned how there was too much water. She clearly wasn’t thinking about her kits’ safety at the time, only thinking about getting to the other side of the river.
@@moved1292
Getting to the otherside of the river for her kits safety tho. I mean if you was just exiled and was told if you was seen on Clan territory again you'd be killed, where would you go? Outside Clan territory where there were foxes and other things, with poor shelter, or to your mate's territory where there would be shelter and cats to look after and feed your children. Outside Clan territory would've been more dangerous for them I would think. And the twolegplace wasnt completely safe cause Oakstar lead raids and was incredibly hostile to kittypets there. Plus Mapleshade wouldnt have none how to navigate through it. She chose the better option out of the three she had I think.
While I do think she could've been smarter about how she crossed the river, I understand why she chose that option in her panic. Saying her kits safety wasn't on her her mind isnt 100% true. While she did put them in danger with the river cross, it's not like she did it for selfish reasons. She honestly felt like RiverClan was the best option for them.
In the end, I feel like Mapleshade killed other cats for herself. When she went to the Dark Forest, she did not mention them and did not seem to miss them. Also, she didn't try to save them, she made a small attempt but Appledusk saved them. But again, afterwards she never mentioned her kits, and she knew that killing the cats wasnt what her kits wanted and still did not regret her actions. And, her kits told her that the water was too high, and yet still made them walk across, even though they had just been born about 3 days ago. And so, I think she is still a bad mother
They were born two moons ago, so technically they were 2 months old.
Mapleshade was trying her best as a cat that could not swim well in rapid flooding water, she was very panicked and was clearly trying to hold onto Patchkit as the other two were being swept off. Appledusk being an experienced Riverclan warrior found them after they drowned, making me believe he was sort of slacking off because he could have saved them even in flooding water.
She mentioned her kits multiple times after their deaths, specifically after she had crashed at the barn, she saw hallucinations of them and she was realizing that after killing Ravenwing, by killing the cats who did her wrong, would 'free' her kits' souls and they would be at rest. Each one disappearing after she killed a cat, after she killed Appledusk she saw Patchkit who was very happy looking and telling her what a good job she did, she tried to stagger forward and was begging him to not leave her and to come back only to snap back into reality.
And her saying she made them cross the river? Where were they supposed to go? They couldnt stay the night because they had to be off the territory by sunrise. Shadowclan and Windclan would not shelter a thunderclan warrior/queen plus the Thunderpath. Kittypet's were being raided and hurt in their own homes by Thunderclan, that would not be a wise option for her and her kits.
Riverclan had their father, a place her and her kits would be accepted since they were half Riverclan.
She loved her kits and she believed she was doing her kits good.
She tried her best to save them but her being a cat that cant swim well trying to keep track of 3 kits who were being flown around in flooding water.
Irestmycase
@@pastelgradient4235 2 months is kind of old for kits, but kits none the less. They were young and terrified yet insisted they swim in flowing dangerous water. Thats bad parenting. Im not saying she should have not gone to Riverclan but chose a better solution instead of chucking them into the water. Again, in the end she did not seem like she did it for her kits because once she died she KNEW they were disappointed yet she fealt no remorse
@@koharuyukiv3582 She didnt know they were disappointed in the end, if anything she thought they were happy and they were free. No where has she said that she thought her kits were disappointed in her.
And she did insist because they had to be off the territory then and there, other wise they would have been treated like outsiders, which means they would have been attacked.
And there is no better way to get to Riverclan, she did not just chuck them in, she let them use the stepping stones to help them as well, she even tried to help them herself with them swimming. She was holding Patchkit on the way, the bigger stronger other two had to swim small distances before reaching the next stone to rest a little.
@@pastelgradient4235 Chucking them in was a metaphor
@@koharuyukiv3582 Alrighty
Sunstar did kinda say he wanted to choose her, but he would have to go with Thistleclaw since she couldn’t become deputy with kits which
Pissed me off tbh
Pinestars choice is the result of Starclan interfering too much into the life/dreams of the mortals...AGAIN.
Pinestar was told to show Tigerkit the worth and importance of the Clan & its rules, instead he showed him the exact oppesite because the blood dream was added which put too much pressure on him.
Bluestar had the same Problem as Marpleshade: Not knowing how to cross a damn river, a bit more north is the river much smaller and according to map, the river overall doesnt flow much there as it prefers another route. (only danger would be that the river there is faster, but not deeper)
If both would have gotten there, carry each kit over one by one, they would all have survived as they would just need to cross the bridge to the west.
That way takes up a lot more time, tho Marpleshade was kicked out anyway and had all time of the world at hand to get to Riverclan, where Bluestar had to do it as a quick mission.
Still, she should have kept a closer eye on her kits, it was freezing cold and they complained as well about it, thats bad parenting.
i don't know if lionheart was a warrior by then. but i will say thistleclaw was well liked by most cats so it isn't a stretch he'd become a deputy if bluestar hadn't given her kits up. ALSO i feel mosskit's death might have something to do with mapleshade because, after all, they are oakheart's children, oakheart is crookedstar's brother, appledusk's descendants. think about it
Rainflower was one of the worst I don't know how you can not only ignore your child but berate them and constantly be encouraging and all over your other child
The thing with Mapleshade is that there were quicker and easier and SAFER ways to get her kits to RiverClan. She was even WARNED not to cross the river by a RiverClan cat beforehand. It was her fault her kits died, but I do sincerely think she regretted it. I also think, though, she used their death in some way as an excuse to blame others for everything. While she wasn’t the worst mother in warrior cats, she was still self-centered and still was the reason her kits died.
After Clear Sky realised that Thunder was strong, he was like, "Hippity Hoppity this is now MY property"
😂😅🙃
Yeah but Clearsky started dating his son’s ex-girlfriend so
Clear Sky is my favorite character. He's so complicated. I love how his actions are all traced to the fear caused by Fluttering Bird's death. I also love how he isn't inherently good or bad. He's in more of a grey area.
@CLAIRE HETZLER :)
These are my reasons here:
Tigerstar
Tigerstar did love his kits, he just didn’t know how to show it because of his evilness. And he didn’t know how to be a good father.
Rainflower
She did love Crookedstar, and let him do whatever he wanted, so he was spoiled. When he got his crooked jaw she ignored him because she didn’t want to say that is was truly her fault. Rainflower *did* love Crookedstar but she also ignored him because she was afraid he would die, and she even changed his name so she couldn’t remember her kits death.
Crowfeather
Crowfeather did love his son breezepelt but Nightcloud made him believe that Crowfeather hated him and didn’t like him, and that Crowfeather didn’t care about them. Also Crowfeather was afraid to loose breezepelt like he lost Feathertail
Spiderleg
Spiderleg’s mom Ferncloud and father Dustpelt didn’t really care for him so he didn’t learn or know how to love. So he didn’t really care for his kits and let Daisy do all the work.
Palebird
Palebird just had extreme depression
I feel bad for Spidey and Crow
ᴘᴇᴘsɪsᴛᴜᴅɪᴏs
You’re welcome 😊
Math from the Undead Army
I do too, and Tigerstar
I feel like Bluestar was pressured into giving away her kits by starclan.
She seems to want to keep them, but Goosefeather told her she had to give them away.
Another awful thing about Starclan
But yes, she is not a good mother
PaleBird is not a bad mom she’s just distant
Scott Larson WE CAN THINK SHE IS A BAD MOM IF WE WANT!
MapleSugar33 BUTT OUT!
Sassy Crowfeather uh, maybe relax? Everyone can have their own opinions-
Pixel Pixel AND I NEVER SAID THAT THEY COULDN’T!
Sassy Crowfeather of corse you can but she was depressed heavily so she has a pretty good reason you are entitled to your ideas never said that they’re wrong
I love how you’re able to separate being a good parent from being a good character, most people ignore that. I love Bluestar(she’s actually my favorite character), but she was an awful mother, just not deliberately like others.
lol i love clear sky
his character development is very realistic and complex :3
dont talk down to my boi here
I was rereading mapleshade's vengeance and I came to a part where Patchkit said "i never want to leave you" and my heart just broke cause he would never see her cause he went to StarClan and Maple shade went to dark Forest.
1:57 Palebird isn’t a bad mom. I won’t say what’s wrong with her, because that’s something apart of her story that falls into Tallstar’s Story.
I don't think it was her fault to suffer the way she did. But at least she got better, but noooo not everyone is happy about that.
Miss Draco exactly! Poor baby didn't deserve to be called a bad mom.
bluestar gave away her kits in order to do what she thought what was best for her clan, NOT what was best for her children. she took the convenient route -- giving her kits away instead of trying to figure out a solution where she could keep them and also be leader. the difference between bluestar taking her kits to riverclan and mapleshade doing the same is that mapleshade saw literally no other option. bluestar simply assumed that this was the only way, without trying anything else -- note, having more time than mapleshade to do so.
bluestar is probably the worst mother, imo
I absolutely love BlueStar and think she loves her kits, but yeah, she wasnt the best mother... but I think she gotten better with Firepaw since she considered him as a son.
She was literally told by multiple cats she couldn't let thistle claw be Deputy and Queens can't be leaders soooo??? What other option was there??? Also if thistle claw became leader I can only assume he would have been like broken star but maybe worse.
@@charlesbooth2051 literally giving her kits to somebody in her own clan? pretty sure there was another queen at the time. or idk, attempt to change the rules as many other influential cats have done in the series? argue her point? there's ways she could have at least *tried*, or even *thought about* for that matter.
also, she wouldn't have had to be leader with her kits, but deputy, and that makes it even easier for her. on top of that, nobody has any reason to believe thistleclaw would have done anything more than fight unnecessary battles. idk how you equate a child murderer with thistleclaw, who just wanted to fight a lot
Why would they let a random warrior change the sacred code for something that has happened before and they didn't change. Also, changing rules would be foolish, there are rules for a reason. You can't change them just because you want to keep your kits and be Deputy. And I don't remember whether there was another queen or not, so imma check real quick
I mean... didn't she have a dream about her kits dying if she didn't stop Thistleclaw? In her eyes, giving them away was saving their lives. (And wasn't the current deputy at the time basically a ticking time bomb? She might have felt like she didn't have a lot of time to work something out before Sunstar HAD to pick a successor, and based off of the fact that Goosefeather got angry and said she was risking the prophecy, it sounds like she had no other option. The kits needed to be completely removed from the situation.) Not to mention the fact that it was an incredibly difficult choice for her to make-- I think she might be bad at parenting, but I don't think she was a bad mother. Just my opinion, but I think saying Bluestar was the worst mother seems a little unfair given the fact that RAINFLOWER exists
I feel like Appledusk was the bad parent. He literary didn't bother helping his kits, and when they drown because of it, he accused Mapleshade of killing them and then took a new mate RIGHT INFRONT OF MAPLESHADE.
I dunno about you guys, but I know Appledusk deserved what was coming to him.
Uh dude, Appledusk was literally the one to fish Mapleshade out of the river. Without him, she would've drowned herself. He was proud when Mapleshade was pregnant and cared for Reedshine when she was pregnant too. His being mad at Mapleshade was more justified than her thinking freakin Frecklewish was to blame for her kits' death. If she'd waited for a Riverclan patrol to help, crossed with her kits one by one instead of all at once, or used the twoleg bridge or went to Fourtrees, which is neutral ground, her kits could've lived, but she was careless. Her being careless caused the exile as she snuck out her kits to see Appledusk even though he warned her they could get caught, and Ravenwing seeing her doing this raised his suspicions. Appledusk being so cruel to Mapleshade can be seen as similar to Brightflower's story: they were grieving and shunned their kin as they believed they caused the death of their children. Yes, Appledusk cheated, but that was about it. Y'all make him out to be worse than he is.
@@brishtisengupta7180 he disowned maple shade and the kits so the cats would not loose their respect for him tf?
@@itznptime806 He disowned mapleshade because he believed she was the reason their kits were dead. He didn't disown the kits, how could he? They were dead. Saying that his relationship with mapleshade was a mistake isn't the same as disowning the kits, most kits from forbidden relationships are technically accidents/mistakes. And even if he stuck up for mapleshade, what good would being exiled do? Hed have to leave behind reedshine, and spend his life with a cat he believed was the reason his children died
@@brishtisengupta7180 yet that doesn’t make him a good cat, he cheated on mapleshade while she was pregnant with the kits, and how could he accuse her of their death, when she was thrashing around in the river, and eventually ran out of energy. Appledusk deserves zero respect.
@@dani-tm4dr I don't think he is a good cat, but I also don't think he's as bad as what a lot of people make him out to be. The cheating is abhorrent but other than that he's not really done anything. Plus, just because Mapleshade didn't intentionally mean to kill the kits and she also started drowning doesn't mean she wasn't guilty. Even if unintentional, her carelessness and lack of foresight lead to the deaths, and it makes sense for Appledusk to think she's at least partially responsible.
When it becomes clear Bluefur can't become the deputy because of her kits, the leader literally is like 'Well at least we have a plan B' and looks right over at Thistleclaw. So. That was happening.
But then after she gives up her kits, he tells her that he thought Thristle was too violent and wasn't planning to make him deputy anyways.
@@sofialozano4031 Well that's an inconsistency in writing most likely and to her there should have been no doubt that was going to happen
@@oliverfloof6824 maybe (since Warriors has a large history of inconsistencies), though the story is told through Bluestar's perspective and we know she has always rivaled Thristleclaw, so maybe she misenterpreted things she saw (like Sunstar looking at Thristle) due to her worry on the possibility of him becoming deputy. There are many times in life where one firmly believes something can happen and due to that thought they interpret things around them as signs of it. For exemple, many who believe spouses are cheating on them for whatever reason tend to get suspicious whenever they leave the house, hide their phones, etc and tend to value the opinions who agree with them more. Maybe something similar happened to Blue.
But well, it's also possible it was actually considered and Sun only reconsidered when he could make Blue deputy.
@@sofialozano4031 Nah I'm like 99% sure Bluestar wasn't supposed to be an unreliable narrator and the Erins just can't remember what they wrote lol
@@oliverfloof6824 Which would make sense if… it was written out by multiple people. Bluestar’s prophecy had one person to write and one to plan. This was early in the Super Editions. Bluestar kinda, had no sense. She jumped to conclusions. Which is a good character flaw! But it also led to the death of her litter. But just because someone is neurodivergent doesn’t mean they’re looking at another person like a juicy steak.
it’s actually very bolded how thistleclaw would’ve been the next deputy after the first deputy. everyone gossiped or out right said it and thistleclaw had already started to make patrols when the deouty couldnt get out of the den. it's also very obvious that thistleclaw aimed to make thunderclan the "strongest clan", which was the same concern tallstar had about mudclaw at the end of tallstar's revenge. /nm
Bluestar had to get rid of her kits because everyone was saying that thistleclaw would a great deputy
It's mentioned by many cats throughout Bluestar's Prophecy that Thistleclaw was in the running for deputy and would most likely become deputy if Bluefur was unable to.
The auto subtitles called Clearsky “queer Skype”
Oh lord
My word.
Just saying, (in my opinion) Palebird wasn't a bad parent. She suffered from deppression, I won't say why because SPOILERS.
I despise Palebird hate. She was depressed, don't expect her to be a good mother! And also don't claim that she was a disloyal mate, if you think that I think these cash grab cat books are too complex for you. Tallstar was overcome by grief and also a kind of edgy bitch at that point. He wanted to shove his guilt away so yeeted it onto Palebird. And when Palebird mated with Woollytail, she was trying to hide her grief and found love in him. And she finally because happy and then you just abuse her for it?
sorry touchy subject.
HOW WOULD PEOPLE SAY PALEBIRD IS A BAD MOM!? she had depression yeah but she was never a bad mother. She always cared for tallstar and in my opinion she's an awesome cat
How you paint the grass?
It's beautiful
sunstar (leader at the time) had basically told bluefur that his 2 choices for deputy were her and thistleclaw and that he was disappointed she had kits when she did bc then she couldnt be deputy, bc shed have to raise them. also the reason why lionheart wasnt made deputy was because... he was an apprentice....
One thing that noone mentions ever is that
Well there was a bridge that Maple'Shade crossed after she was refused from RiverClan
She took three tiny kits across stepping stones instead of a bridge.
To when you said “who even says Thistleclaw will be made deputy?”
Actually Skystar said so that he wanted to pick Bluefur but if not he picks Thistleclaw
can we talk about best parent/mom award tho....
it goes to graypool, like, cmon you can’t tell me she wasn’t one of the best moms!!
I feel like Appledusk was a worse parent than Mapleshade
But that's just my opinion lol pls don't kill me
A little but I am very safe to say She can be things more better than just :
lie about Birchface being the father of her kits (wich was very recently), let her children swin in the freaking flud ,was not simple just call for appledusk for help?
@@YumeQueen She didnt know if there would be a patrol anywhere nearby, they were at the edge of Riverclan's border and the camp was a bit aways. So some cats would not be able to hear her
She did not openly lie about Birchface being their father, though Bluestar did as well lie about her own kits father, saying they were Thrushpelt's
Everyone just assumed their father was Birchface's, Frecklewish quickly getting straight to it and believing so.
And Mapleshade had to leave the territory then and there, she had o where else to go but Riverclan with their father
How was Appledusk a bad parent when he didn't even get to no one? Mapleshade Stan's r weird.
Eek so many replies I'm sorry if this comment made you mad it's just my opinion
(*・～・*)
Wait, so you talked about *Bluestar*, but you didn't talk about Rainflower?
Umm she couldn’t turn around because she told oakheart to meet her that night which was a little bit after a gathering so to give them the next night kinda wasn’t a possiblity cause she had to meet oakheart again to arrange another meeting to get them and bring them to the camp which probably would’ve taken a long time I do agree that maybe Bluestar over though of who would be deputy but she didn’t really knew what to do in her situation
thanks for the spoiler warning! ill leave a like and get out of here :)
I definitely agree that clear sky is horrible, AND confusing. i mean,
has mate
mate is now pregnant
PREGNANT WIFE HAS BEEN STOLEN BY EAGLE
trauma
gets land
swears at everyone and leaves
gets all paranoid about his land
gets another mate
looses mate
has kits
abandon kits
kits die
abandon kits again
take in last kit
kick out last kit
STARTS A WHOLE WAR FOR STARCLAN'S SAKE
gets catfished by his girlfriend
STILL MARRIED GIRLFRIEND FOR SOME REASON???
has MORE kits and makes last last kit jealous
if cats can be bipolar, this is it
I would have at least mentioned something about Rainflower and how bad she treated Crookedkit(star) but it wasn't a really big picture so you really wouldn't have been able to do all of them
Sunstar hinted pretty hard that he was going to make Thistleclaw deputy if he couldn't have Bluefur. And Goosefeather straight up told her if that he was going to destroy the clan if he was made leader lol
Someone probably said this but apparently sunstar (sunfall) was in love with moonflower so when he watched stormtail flirt with dappeltail so he felt like he owed it to bluestar (bluefur) and he was apparently he was gonna choose an older warrior so when bluestar was done raising her kits so he could make her deputy
I believe Millie is a horrible mother.
After the tree incident, Millie was overwhelmingly protective of Briarlight. I do believe B’L didn’t even like it.
Blossomfall fell into a mild-medium state of depression and low self-esteem, after seeing Millie not caring about Blossomfall, her own daughter.
Despite being disabled, I don’t think Briarlight should be seen as a special-needs character. She may not be able to go on patrols, but atleast she can drag herself across camp without having to beg for help. Millie is overreacting.
Bumblestripe is fine because he doesn’t have much to do with Millie, but Blossomfall really showed sad and depressive emotions after seeing her ‘uselessness’. Millie and Blossomfall fought, Blossomfall reasonable and Millie over defensive over HER OTHER DAUGHTER.
pinestar was a good father cuz his decisions led to the sexiest cat alive
What the actual fuck
You made my day, thank you x3
Bluestar is amazing she did it so thunderclan wouldn’t become like shadowclan and thistleclaw was EVIL so that’s why she gave her kits up
I just wanna say, Bluestar was told by Starclan that she had to become deputy and give up her kits.
In my opinion my bad parent list goes: Rainflower, Sandgorse, Lizardstripe, and Ivypool. Neglected, pressure, no appreciated, and abandoned 😖
@CLAIRE HETZLER She even didn’t want to spend time with her children when they needed her most. She barley even talks to any of them
why was ivypool bad???
0:07 "You can call me honestly what ever you'd like"
Me: "Okie dokie Donnie Trump" >:3
Bluefur: hey so Sunstar my weird uncle is angry at me for having kits cause appearently starclan thinks thistleclaw would be a bloodthirsty leader.
Sunstar: Well I'll need to talk to goosefeather and-
Bluefur: he also made tigerpaw almost kill a kit
Sunstar: WHY DIDNT YOU TELL ME THIS???
And then thrushpelt became deputy and then thrushstar, and bluefur probably moved to riverclan at some point idk
I'm so glad that I'm not the only person who thinks Mapleshade wasn't all that terrible of a mother!
Rainflower was one of the worst parents ever in my opinion.
She is in Crookedstar's Promise, if you haven't read it I strongly recommend you read it!
*-My favorite DF cat is in it ;D-*
🦆💚
(Spoilers for the palebird thing from tallstars revange)
I'm gonna say palebird is not a bad mom she had depresion amd thats why she is not that good of a mom. Now you may have you're opinion and i respect that but please don't come tell me i'm wrong because theres no point in that.
Not gonna lie, I was so relieved when the grass covered Pinestar's and Tigerkit's paws in the finished shot
I'm sorry but How can people hate Bluestar yet love Mapleshade...? They are basically the same?
just going to give my opinions
lizardstripe: die please.
brightflower: how did she even get on this list-
clearsky: idk i haven't read the dawn of the clans books yet
stormtail: ehhhhhh
bluestar: shut up, and accept shes a good mom.
pinestar: honestly, yeah.
mapleshade: no, no, nO, good mother.
I never thought of Bluestar as a bad mother. Sure, she and Mapleshade got their kits killed taking them to RiverClan, but she wasn’t bad in TPB so I just think of her positively *ahem ahem* Lostface was pretty bad tho *ahem ahem* Bluestar just cared about her Clan’s safety and her kits’ safety as well. If Thistleclaw became leader he might’ve turned out like Brokenstar and Bluefur saved us from that future. We wouldn’t have gotten Firepawheartstar if she didn’t give up her kits.