AfriForum's Ernst Roets on land expropriation without compensation.
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- How will land expropriation without compensation work, and how will law makers balance these competing needs?
Ernst Roets explain why AfriForum does not agree with land expropriation without compensation. There is three concepts namely, restitution, redistribution and nationalization that needs to be understood.
Watch the debate between Ernst Roets and PAC on eNCA.
I actually stay in the suburb, got a bank loan ,been paying for over 20 years ,got 2 jobs to pay said loans that enable me to own a property.Yet I am labelled a thief? Wow ,how bizarre. This guy is just not willing to get some facts straight.
You're just pissed you got a shitty deal from the masterminds.
Stop playing victim. You're like the mod wife who loves to enjoy the fruits of the mob life, but when the cops show up at your door you act all innocent in ignorant about what was going on.
Ingrid its not about you, you know! Continue sinking in debt while we have our land bank... The chickens are coming home to roost baby! Mr Roets will not be there to help you with his high IQ when we come for the land sorry
Shirley Lincoln I know my history very well thanks. It is your blood that will be spilled and the land will be taken back. Africa is rising and they can keep their aid and investments.
Clearly you people can't read the writing on the wall. Africa is reclaiming it's glory back and South Africa is on the front foot of all this.
You thought Mandela was stupid, all along we knew that we need to take full control and thereafter start implementing the FREEDOM CHARTER.
Like I said, if you think blood will spill, make no mistake, it is yours that will spill and later you will start crying "GENOCIDE" forgetting that you provoked us. This is our land and you have no say to it.
We take back our land.
Mr.T wow someone's currently on cloud cuckoo land
Ingrid Liebenberg imagine that black graduate can't get a job but you have 2 . viva eff
Roets: Facts, facts, facts. The Doctor: Feelings, feelings, feelings.
Andre C at the ends feeling will overtake facts,truth,logic,human rights etc, definitely feelings once again will win
Yes, and the feeling are: Jealousy, hate and greed
lol crazy pale pipo
I honestly think that this issue should be properly addressed, it is of no use to expropriate the land without plan. It would be useless to have the land back yet we do not have necessary skills to develop or use it, typical example of this is the RDP houses. Most people demanded the houses and were given free houses but today, most of those houses were sold to foreigners. I foresee danger if we don't become strategic and settle this matter as civilized beings.
Khumbudzo Nemukula ... This is soo true but you forget that so many black and white people are to racist to move forward.The white minority is not to blame for poverty anymore all the laws like BEE, BBBEE and afirmative action were instated to help uplift poverty for prevouisly disadvantaged black citizens.It is no longer the whites oppressing the black ...it is the govenment ruling to benefit their own pockets and not helping their own people (many white owned companies, tax payers and european unions have donated money for the housing of people in townships but the money was used to by nice luxury cars and build presidential estates instead ) .. I agree that stolen land must be given back but the people currently occupying those spaces payed for it they worked hard for their land and they were not the ones who stole it...
In the same sense alot of white people are just as poor and staying in township .the life you live is bassed on the work you put in.. and if we dont stop raising childern to be racist instead of teaching them to get along this country will go no where ...
Thank you, we need more people like you.
Well said Ernst Roets
Roet is not saying anything.He is neither for dialogue or the rainbow nation.He is simply against sharing of wealth and land. He is only protecting the interests of ownership.Why should a solution in dialogue be determined by a question by him about what white people should do to own land.In unison equality would have answered that question. Instead of solving South African problems with his fellow citizens ready for dialogue he run round the world crying about farm murders and not other crimes. The world would soon know the truth.
@@vaeterua what a lad of krap. Facts don't care about your feelings.
Ernst said something at the end that is so vital for South Africa. Why hasn't the government handed title deeds to South Africans on state owned land? The South African libertarian party has been talking about this for a while as have some seriously bright people outside of South Africa, like Thomas Sowell and so on. This is key, land ownership allows the owner of land to use his or her land as equity to borrow or loan money to start businesses for example, it brings pride to a family, which lets face is almost non existent in poorer areas, where most black children grow up without dad around. Ernst is right, South Africans mustn't be fooled into thinking this is about giving land back, its not, its about the state controlling the means of production and our lives, full on communism. Growing up White during apartheid I never once had a member of my family tell me not to trust black people or even hate them, but I was continuously warned about was the ideology behind the ruling black parties, communism and they were right all those years ago, their agenda is now coming through loud and clear. You can think twice that I am going to work my ass off, employ many people, pay tax and do what I can to help South Africa if you take my right to land ownership away. If freedom and liberty of each individual, not collective or group isn't the highest pursuit, South Africa will fail.
The reporter seemed very biased towards Ernst. Thanks Ernst for speaking about this troubling issue.
Aag voetsek
So this Black man is basically saying let's ignore the deals of the past and history,we just wan't to take the land,whether it's right or not...
Zavier 1 Finally it got to your dick head, we are taking our land back.
Mr.T explain how is it your land ?
What happened to all the land, which I think, was GIVEN to the various ethnic groups on the creation of the Homelands. Most farmers currently working their own family farms, were not GIVEN the land, they BOUGHT the land, which is being fully utitilised, and not given/being used for subsistance farming, or wasted .
Roets is stating facts, which cannot be ignored.
80% OF PRIVATE LAND IS STILL OWNED BY WHITES WHO REPRESENT 8% OF THE POPULATION. THE 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT ALLOWED WHITES TO DISPOSES BLACKS FROM THEIR LAND. LAND HAS BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY FORCEFULLY TAKEN FROM BLACK PEOPLE OVER SEVERAL GENERATIONS, THE BERLIN CONFERENCE, THE 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT, APARHTEID JUST TO NAME A FEW.
I seems to me Jacob Zuma taught you numeracy......where did you get your statistics from if no South African ID state race?
B S listen to baas Dawie. His right
I don't listen to low IQ degenerates. More than 80% of privately owned land is owned by whites (thanks to colonialism and apartheid), but don't worry, we gonna fix that real soon ;)
KAVUMA BENON we will keep our land and nothing will happen. Bye bye
how did indians muslims colored people manage to work so hard during apartheid to not live in shacks ?
Pat Naidoo I have always wondered exactly that. Indians especially are doing very well for themselves in general.
Its down to they want to do well for them selves. I have never heard the Indian community crying about they were brought to SA as slaves ! They are now Doctors and teachers... they never destroyed any thing getting there
i hope we can find a way to resolve this issue if you are born in africa you are african whetehr black white colored indian etc so how do we go forward
No, you are Europeans.
@@kamvamgwaza7142 and you originated from central africa. Being african means you were born on the continent of africa. Africa has many races including arab, white (european) indo European, indian and nguni (black of which there are many casts some being more darker than others with variations in facial and stature).
@@maryduplessis2510
No you may be born in Africa but you are ethnically European, but you are South Africans as that's a nationality.blacks in the USA are rightly called African Americans due to their African lineage and heritage.
The problem is that white people are the ones that referred to themselves as europeans ...Remember the signs ...european beaches and non european beaches ...when did they decide to choose to be africans ..
Well done Roets! Seems like talking to a wall but there are historical facts and legal implications.
80% OF PRIVATE LAND IS STILL OWNED BY WHITES WHO REPRESENT 8% OF THE POPULATION. THE 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT ALLOWED WHITES TO DISPOSES BLACKS FROM THEIR LAND. LAND HAS BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY FORCEFULLY TAKEN FROM BLACK PEOPLE OVER SEVERAL GENERATIONS, THE BERLIN CONFERENCE, THE 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT, APARHTEID JUST TO NAME A FEW.
BS = BULLSHIT!
Haut Jour whites killed so much black tribes and never paid for that
Jimbo is that all you got shithead? lmao
+BS I'm happy that you are that easily amused. There is however, nothing about your sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity to be found amusing. It is a danger to the world.
Does enca not have unbiased reporters? Poor Ernst Roets debates with facts and these people are confused about the whole topic.
They are not confused. The minds have been made up. It's like arguing with idiots of I.Q's around 70.
They are not confused, they rather heard that nonsense before and soon will come to an end.
Gareth Nicholson since when a robber is discussing with facts. There was no discussion when white government took the land from blacks. You should be humble if you are white
Out with it, you want to know whether eNca doesn't have white reporters.
you people? you are??
racism will always be here but we have to find ways to live together just taking back land is not the answer
Why is not an answer, just shut up filthy and overpopulated India is waiting for you
Well done Roets , Facts on Facts on Facts
armand de ridder what facts? there was not one fact mentioned he kept saying hes not sure and speaks under correction is it because he is a white man protecting white privelage and intrest?
Hilaria Hasheela Enjoy starvation
Hilaria Hasheela Can't follow basic facts and now you expect to keep a national economy strong. Whatever
Here is a fact, the land was stolen from the indigenous people (Berline conference, 1913 *"native"* land act)
B S So give back the 350 million dollars the US is providing in aid then take the land. Oh and all the money farmers have been paying the banks on legal leases
What if all South Africans can work together... Lets build a good strong country. Politicians and parties are dividing us printing info into our heads that is not important. It's important to work and live as South Africans and prosper together. No political party is going to give you what you want. Hate, envy and blame is not the answer. You know that!! .. Let's practice what is right.
M P exactly let us govern ourselves and stop relying on these liars.
Don't know why he is complaining about people living in shacks. I worked with people of colour , we got paid the same, and they quickly moved back to the townships because "live is to expensive in town" Priorities are different for different people.
How do you know you got paid the same?
you're ignorance deserves a noble peace award.
your ignorance deserves a noble peace award.
So people are willing living in shacks now. Man that's golden right there.
Or maybe they are lining in reality and see the bigger picture. Do these people have a few generations with the same or better education and job prospect as you and your people?
The fact that some people think this is debatable is why there's no future for this country.
This discussion raises an interesting question. Before I start with that, first some clarification. I will refer to ‘them’ and ‘they’ quite a lot. This is done with the full understanding that not everybody belongs to ‘them’. There are still people in this country with sound and wise minds throughout the wide spectrum of genders, classes and races.
The question. The CODESA negotiations (the negotiations preceding the Constitution) was a long, vast, drawn-out process where the participation of every relevant roll player was invited and respected. One only needs to study the background to and the whole process involved to understand this (the document forms part of the curriculum of every law student and every student of constitutional law). The ANC and PAC were crucial participants of which the current EFF was not excluded. The current EFF was at that time the youth league of the ANC. The Constitution in its current form was agreed upon by all the parties involved and eventually signed into law. If the argument of the good doctor is taken into context, it means that the issue of land expropriation without compensation must have been a sore bone of contention of all these parties during the negotiations because the rationale of their argument lies pre-1994, not post-1994. Why then did they agree to the final Constitution which doesn’t allow this???
Perhaps the answer can be found in the concept of power. During the negotiations the military power was still in the National Party Government’s control. If the ANC then would have kept on insisting to take the whole of South Africa land from the ‘oppressors’, negotiations surely would have been a dismal failure and the war would have escalated with a dubious result. The ANC wanted power. One sure way of obtaining the said power was to smear mud over the eyes of the opposing negotiators and the international community. Adopt a fake agreement with an agenda to ‘correct’ it once total power is achieved. In other words - adopt a fraudulent approach.
That it did. In the following years the military control was taken over by blacks, the military was weakened, the air force diminished to almost non-existent, and the commando system disbanded in totality.
At present the ANC and PAC reckons it has the power. It reckons now is the time to nationalise the land. It reckons now is the time to start a genocide because it has the power. Now all of a sudden the Constitution is not good enough. Ironically the same Constitution does contain a clause for fair land distribution. The problem is however, this fair procedure needs proof. Successful land claims had been launched over the years but that process seems to be exhausted. The ANC and PAC can proof no more. The truth had caught up with them.
It reckons it has the power to nowadays instead make sweeping statements about ‘oppression’ and ‘land thievery’ to enable them to take all of the land and nationalise it. They cannot proof ‘oppression’ in court. It still adopts the fraudulent façade of ‘peacefully negotiate to eventually take all of the land by force’, but unfortunately what they don’t realise they are not dealing with fools.
The question was asked many times: “What must a white person do to own land in South Africa without being accused of being a thief”??????? It was never answered.
Power is might. The ANC is and was no exception. They did not use all the violence because they were ‘oppressed’. They did and is still using violence to obtain more and more power. They want to dominate and is drunk with their degeneracy.
For them South Africa is not ‘us’. For them South Africa is ‘us’ versus ‘them’. It was and still is a fact.
Stupid question: Will the land go to the majority (the Zulu) or will it go back to the original "owners" (the San; Koi and Koi-San)?
Honest question. If a farmer still owes the bank money for his farm, let’s say he has only made two payments after recently taking ownership, and this farm is identified for expropriation. Will the farmer still owe the bank the money in its entirety, or will the government settle the balance of the mortgage? Does anyone know what the law says about this?
Bob Coughlan thier not thinking about that all that they want is to take the land . If they take my house i wont pay . The banks will go bankrupt
Mooi Ernst!!! Keep it up...all our support.
Any person who argues this on Pro land grabs are talking from a emotional stand point who always talks about the struggle. Yet we are always bringing factual statements to the table and they simply do not care about these arguments. How frustrating must that be to be saying the same thing over and over and the other side just doesn't care.
ripper12322
If you keep repeating your self then 1 of 4 things are true
1. The people you are speaking to are slow
2.Maybe you are right but you need to change the way your message is conveyed.
3. You are wrong...or
4. You are insane and need to go see someone.
I know you like your little "facts" but any of these 4 things could be true even though I know you think the 1st is true :)
ganging up against the white man in a debate.Sick of the word "land thieves"
Games TV whites didnt steal the land the blacks took it by force
Ernest well said. I purchased my land and will fight for it.
Anc and eff don't know their history....
There is a reason for that - whites has brought education and literacy to Africa.....in historic times black people couldnt write down and preserve documentation on history.
Dawie Meyer says who? the worlds first libraries are where? stop being a racist boer and do ur research
Alex S whites did nothing but destroy and steal from africa nothing this is the second racist conment im seeing from u on youtube on a difrent video spreading hate about black people google the mali empire and tar seti and atleast Mapungubwe and tell me if any white person was involved there infact europeans came to africa to learn ur fathers respected black people unlike ur fat ugly keyboard warrior ass they understood that africa was the repository of all knowledge why do u think they are so many stone ruins in africa and close to none in europe????????
Alex S are u done googling the mali empire my boer friend? now ask google who was the richest man to ever live in the history of the world? Ur trendmill is waiting leave the keyboard for a while
Mitch Butcher Stil doesnt matter u know what i meant.
That was a fantastic, educated and well excecuted debate.
Well done to both parties.
thank you Ernest Roots for standing by your word
hahaha, why cant they answer the question??????????????
Roets is 100% correct with a far superior knowledge regarding this topic. It is the poor blacks living in squatter camps who will suffer the most under this new proposal. Why do all the current parties ignore the issue of all land being nationalised?
And why don't black nations learn their own history? Instead they seek support from the most vulnerable, the poor black people living in camps. Why do they also ignore the fact that black nations have increased by 1000% in 4 generations as this adds to fuel the propaganda of the ruling party
Brilliant Mr. Roets.
Who is going to get the land? How can you give a black uneducated black person about the land and you expect that those people must produce maximum production? I am B Agric student and why don't we share the land to produce more to fight poverty as Farmers.
Thank you Mr. Roets. I think most white people want clarity on this subject, because uncertainty creates insecurity which creates conflict.
Why would clarity be questionable if dialogue includes everyone to resolve this ones and for all.He could not even answer the question of how Whites acquired land.He could not even answer the question what he meant by open land ?The doctor want dialogue in unison for all South Africans. Protecting property rights is not the solution cause the CODESA agreement is in question.
@@vaeterua what you FAIL to understand is that it won't be just white land mampara but everyone's land that the state will take and everyone will have to rent land from the state. Changing the property act is not only land but anything and everything you ow.n. What a poephol you are!!!! It won't help the 'oppressed' as was lied about here, only the elite few in government and the ANC cadre network. Time to catch a wakeup and remove the wool from your eyes.
I guess Mr Ernst Roets has a great input he can make to the Constitutional Review Committee to make things work for the good. This can work if people like Mr Roets won't withhold such inputs and the mistake of dismissing him on basis of his skin colour should not be made. We must seek to move forward as a nation.
Rational points were made here. Is it inconceivable that land was bartered for? Is it inconceivable that portions of inhabitable land was uninhabited, given the size of the population? Is it inconceivable that there are records of the purchase of portions of land from the leaders? Is it inconceivable that if the government was serious about the re-appropriation of land, then granting title deeds of the state owned informally inhabited land to those inhabiting it would be a good place to start with this process? Ernst responded sincerely to questions posed to him, yet his opposition was uninterested in reciprocating and at times uninterested in even listening to rational points put forward.
Proction of propery rights as they are in this current society would be a disaster in the long run. We have sections of the community that were disinfrancised and disadvantaged by a political system. What will happen is that Capital will buy this country out in no time. Let history be addressed first and then we can talk about property rights. Infact, I would go as far saying that the state should own and control strategic land on a permanent basis and make available equitably in order to facilitate economic activity, employment and social justice for all, black and white.
If empty land didn't belong to anybody then empty land in Europe doesn't belong to anybody, right?
This black man makes me laugh. What did the Zulu King say about taking his land?
Jacques de Wet would I still be making you laugh if I was kicking you in the fucking neck?
Jacques de Wet Now all of a sudden you are up the zulu kings ass...you are a hypocrate !!
Now you re up the Xulu kings ass because he sings your song....
You make me laugh !!
@@truth-Hurts375 the afrikaaners and the zulus have a very good relationship contrary to whatever you have heard.
How is the Government going to Finance and Manage this whole process?
When section 25 has been amended can I expect a visit from your Government representatives to discuss taking over our very productive farm, employing about 600 people that have been living here for generations. As the farm is Bonded to the maximum does this mean the Bank will still own the equity of the farm, or will the Bank just write it off? How will we be compensated for all the improvements, Live Stock and farm equipment, also all the supply contracts for Dairy products? When you take over the Farm would you negotiate with our employees and the four highly qualified managers to keep farm going? I would like to know how the Government is going to manage and Finance this whole process?
Property rights = white interests.. Interesting.. 🤔
Michael Mostert who owns almost all the property=whites, and can they be a blacks interests🤔
If it were another race going through the same expropriation, example some indians in Natal do u think Afriforum wouldve come to protect theyre "property rights "?????????????? I thought so.. Afriforum is a boeremag protecting white privelage and intrest in Africa
Hilaria Hasheela Whites could've have nuke you during apart as well, so they can't be that racist hey
Darryn, if they had nuked them then they would have killed themselves in the process hey
B S How would they kill themselves
Ernst - your fact are wrong. When the Natives Land Act was passed - it wasn't that Natives only took up 9% of the land, it was that the Act only left 10% of the land for the Natives. This in fact this the first example of displacement. It disproves your argument.
I think Mr Roets lost the plot when he said "When you simply walk over a piece of land it belongs to you"...That is extremely arrogant...I’m sure people of African descent would find this grossly offensive. Its statements like these that stir up things and make us all look bad.
I believe that ANC guy who said if you have a 10 bed-roomed house, and only use two bedrooms, does it mean the other 8 are not yours because you dont sleep in them? A historical fact is that no white person owned land in South Africa, or Africa for that matter before 1652 and you tell me that land was “bought”…Bought from who? Have you read Jan Van-Reibeck’s diary extracts in how he describes the Khoisan and other locals? Do you believe he would have “paid” for land to people who he thought was sub-human? And let’s not even get into the laws that barred blacks from owning land…The truth be told the land ownership patterns are grossly skewed in this country. No Africans own large tracts of land in Europe.
But due to the complex history of our land, this is one case that is not white or black. Negotiations must be done, that are constructive and for the greater good. land cant just be taken just for the sake of it. I must be put in good capable hands for the betterment of everyone!! One idle farm is a loss too big for our growing nation.
South Africa take back your land
Lamin jadama so us whites must take back the land the blacks stole and took by force from us in south africa
Take it away.they pay rent if they can,if not they can go home!
I am not sure what Mr Roets is talking about, but KwaZulu Kingdom was the entire Natal and parts of Mpumalanga, Free States and Eastern Cape, there were uninhabitated sports, but those sports belonged to the Zulus.
To ammend the constitution would constitute a populistic attempt to gain popularity with individuals that are unable to appreciate the damage that such an action would cause to the economy and social relations.
In terms of appropriation of farm lands:
Farming is heavily capital intensive. R160 billion of loans have been extented to farmers which the Land being security for the loans. To appropriate such land would destroy the bank's balance sheet which results in them being unable to extend loans, ultimately leading to major recession and food insecurity.
Farming is incredibly risky, to give a farm to an individual with no experience would undeniably fail, they would not be able to produce the yields required to stay-afloat and they would not attain investment due to investors being risk-averse and requiring security.
Investors would not be able to receive security as the land will be owned by the state and their would be no free market.
Expropriation of land by the government would open the doors for corruption which would further disincentivise investment and damage the economy.
Foreign investment into the country would decrease as an investor would not want to develope on land which they do not own. This would decrease employment as well as the strength of the rand.
The state should rather distribute from the 180 000 000 square kilometers in its posession.
People are ready to die for their land. It is their family's security and they have worked their whole lives to pay off loans to acquire their piece of land.
These Communistic ideals are dangerous and irresponsible. They hinder growth, individual rights and freedom and are destined to fail.
The members of parliament should demonstrate themselves as responsible leaders and remain objective and think about the future of the country. Rather than giving in to pressure by uninformed individuals.
Peace and prosperity are more fragile than one may think. To ammend the constitution would cause irreparable damage.
Tax legislation related to the sale of land where farming activities is undertaken has not been changed to make land more accessible. Currently, the Proceeds of sale of a farm is included in Gross income, instead of being subject to Capital Gains Tax. This results in the seller having to ask for 220% of the amount that he needs after tax (as a result, loans having to be repaid increase the asking price by 220% of the loan's outstanding balance). If the members of parliament were serious about land reform, they would have changed this. This should now be changed to facilitate a more tenable appropriation with compensation programme for farm lands. No land other than vacant land should be considered for appropriation.
The state organisation already has all legal authority to appropriate land with compensation.
The process has not been utilized.
I missed the answer to the question how someone who is not “black” can own property/land?
Buy it
@@appiahallan how?
I wish we could resolve this issue. I want to know if I should fire all my black staff and move my business and all my money overseas?
here comes another zimbabwe
Ray Verster i do not agree. white south africans can prevent that by accepting this process.
White South Africans will abandon South Africa, and naturally starvation will follow. Another failed African state.
techposo why do you even care ?
ray vester....really another zim!! thx 4 telling me but am just being kind to u this time huh
Zimbabwe didn't fail the economy the evils of this world so called western union suctions Zim like here is their plan to suction SA
I respect Ernst Roets. Very rational man.
Expropriation of land, the way the ANC and EFFwho want to adopt it, was originally used by Pol Pot of Cambodia who ended up being a dictator and mass murderer during a short stint in the 70's, he murdered about 2 million Cambodians. If history needs to repeat itself the ANC and EFF are taking a page out of his book- so far only land expropriation.
One more thing. It is naïve to believe that historical truths has any bearing on the direction of politics. History is always written by the victors.
As always, asked a question and gets refused an answer, instead getting bombarded with accusations, that's why things aren't moving forward, instead spiraling down the drain. i always wonder, when the land gets expropriated, who gets the land, how much farms can be divided up between the people, we have millions of people in this country. All the farms will be gone and still there will be people without land, what then will we have to import food to survive, aka Zimbabwe.
Can we have a start date? 3000BC - Khoisan lived in the country since the beginning. If that is the starting point, both black and white should give everything back. Give back Transkei, give back Kwa Zulu , Lesotho because these people lived there. Secondly, if you have Khoisan, DNA you are owners of the country.
there was never free land in Africa ,land belonged to kings ,demarcations where maintains,rivers etc.as cape cost belonged to Koisan ,which were driven off to the north by jan van reibeeck.
your parents lied to you, amaxhosa occupied the east of Southern Africa Amazulu occupied North. while Tswanas and Sothos in the center. afrikaanas arrived in cape colony where koisans where bearers of the west of southern africa
I'm sorry...."white tribes"? So white Dutch and British people had tribes in Africa? Someone pls explain
The process for land redistribution is IN THE CONSTITUTION. Go ask the ANC why THEY have failed to act upon that process significantly in 20+ years...
Always Ernst against two or more. Two or more who cannot answer simple questions.
Gang up
The black tribes antagonized each other, but you never hear that. But wait, you will, when one tribe finally notices that another has something the first one wants.
Guys the problem here is Ernst speaks with facts but when he is opposed there is no facts presented the simple vague opinions, we need to bring facts if we want to serve SA
I sold a car once. I think that it must now be returned to me because I was the previous owner.
God is the prop of land let us all shere the land
Back ground & history.
Lets compare Mexico claiming back all the land taken from her.
The area Mexico ceded to the United States in 1848, minus Texan claims. The Mexican Cession consisted of present-day U.S. states of California, Nevada, Utah, most of Arizona, about half of New Mexico, about a quarter of Colorado, and a small section of Wyoming.
Now imagine claims by the Mexicans to include in that reparation most of the rest of the USA "as it was their ancestral homeland before the whites came".
This is the situation in South Africa where black settlement, yes indeed settlement, was mainly concentrated in a strip up the east coast from the Fish river in the south to Mozambique in the north, an area which has a higher rainfall & where they could graze their cattle & grow crops. For the most part South Africa would be classified as being a semi arid country which was originally sparsely settled by the non Bantu, Khoi & San people, well documented by missionaries & travellers. The potential of this vast area was unlocked with the more advanced technology of the white population enabling increased food production,economic & population growth.
Indeed under these improved conditions town & cities were formed offering job opportunities & thus quite spectacularly the black population increased from 3 million at the end of the 19th century to the present 50+million who now are demanding that All, of the land to be turned over to them.
How will law makers balance the competing needs? well, how did they balance it in the past when the land was expropriated from non-white people?
This black guy is so ARROGANT....he refuses to answer the question. Roets asked the question 3 times, and not once was it answered: "What can a white person do to own property, without such property being regarded as stolen?" I've seen Roets ask similar questions, on multiple debate forums, and the question is not answered. And Roets also points out the most OBVIOUS observation: That not all land is South Africa was originally owned by black South Africans. In 1913, when the 'Native land act' was passed, the entire SA population was just just over 6 million people (some of whom were white). In 1652, it was less than 1 million. How could the whole of South Africa be owned by so few people ? The fact is that parts were occupied, while other massive stretches were unoccupied. Now the present day majority black population, of over 40 million people, all want land.....and are claiming that the entire country belonged to them. And everybody ignores the fact that many tribes, which descend from the Bantu people, themselves displaced the Khoisan, and were NOT originally from SA. But this black guy simply makes 'blanket statements' like "the land was stolen". Which land ?????!!!!! Whose land ????!!!!! And can you prove it ?????!!!!!! He also asks Roets: "How did white people occupy land in this country ?" This is another blanket/very generalized & oversimplified question. He assumes that all whites occupied land in the same way. But the answer would differ, from one case to the next: In some cases, occupation occurred by force, in other cases it occurred through negotiations, and in many cases, unoccupied land was eventually occupied by whites, due the small population at the time. Of course, occupation by force was typical of various tribal leaders, such as Shaka Zulu & Mzilikazi, who attacked and killed members of various other tribes, after which land was stolen. Thus, there is a complex history involved, and most of those promoting the amendment of the constitution are oversimplifying the issue.
Why haven't the poor blacks been assigned land to farm that hasn't been cultivated? Do they just want farms already tamed and farmed?
i. would forcibly. return african lands to africans. and charge the europeans a fee for time spent profiting on it
Paul Ebai then charge all blacks that live in other country's
On the issue of where black (The Bantu)people come from:
I have been reading and noting over the past couple weeks a narrative being aggressively pushed that black people ( The bantu) migrated from central Afrika and later "settled" in South Africa. I would like to state that this narrative is false and it's a great distortion of history. There are many permeating myths that
are doing the rounds that we need to dispell and correct.
Myth 1: Black people came from central Afrika.
This myth is false. In South Africa just outside Johannesburg there is a place called The Cradle of Mankind. It is supposedly an area where scientists believe man evolved from being ape like to becoming Homosepiens (Human). It is common knowledge that the first people on this earth were black and all other races came from black people. So if the first people started out in outside Johannesburg who were those people who migrated from central Afrika?
Furthermore there is also archaeological evidence of a kingdom called Mapungubwe that existed north of Pretoria around 900 AD. This kingdom was inhabited by Bantu people. Now tell me again how the Bantu migrated from central Afrika.
There is more evidence of Bantu people living in Southern Afrika, when you go into Zimbabwe you will find ruins of a city that existed in the 11th century called Great Zimbabwe. That city too was inhabited by Bantu people.
Myth 2: The Khoi are the original inhabitants of the whole of South Africa.
This narrative is also false. The Khoi and the San are in fact the original inhabitants of the Cape regions of South Africa. They were nomadic hunter gatherer people who lived from Cape Town all the way up to the Namib desert and inland into the Drakensburg mountains. There is no evidence of the Khoi ever inhabiting any parts of KwaZulu Natal, Limpopo, North West, the north of the Eastern Cape and West Free State. There is also no archiological evidence of any war ever occurring between the Bantu and the Khoi over land. There is however evidence of the Khoi trading medicines with the Bantu. We know the famous story of how the future King Dingiswayo was nursed back to health by the Khoi when an assassination attempt was made on him.
The story goes that the young Dingiswayo was stabbed by assassins who were sent to kill him as they did not want him to ascend to the thrown of the Mthethwa tribe. It is said Dingiswayo fled to the Drakensburg mountains where he was found by the Khoi and they nursed him back to health.
Myth 3: All Coloured people are descendants of the Khoi.
This is also false, not all Coloured people can trace their genealogy back to the Khoi. Coloured people came about when white men had babies with the Malay slaves they brought from Asia, some Coloured people came about when white men had babies with the black people they found here and some coloured people came about when white men had babies with the Khoi.
When white people landed in South Africa in 1652 they had already colonised vast parts of Asia so when they came here they brought with them slaves and servants from these regions. It is these slaves that also make up some of the geneology of coloured people. Some Dutch settlers did have children with the Khoi women they found in the Cape, as is evident with the story of Krotoa, a young Khoi woman who was taken in by Jan Van Reebeck as a translator. She later married a Dutch soldier and had children with him. Other instances of the emergence of Coloured people include the stories of Henry Fynn and Henry Ogle who settled in KwaZulu Natal. They went on to assimilate into the Zulu culture of polygamy and they took many black wives. Even to this day you still find a lot of Coloured people in KwaZulu Natal who have the surname Fynn and Ogle.
When discussing about the land it is easy to fall into the trap of judging things with the mordern eye. But if you take time to study our history you find that it is complex and dark. The mistake we also make is to judge things using measures like borders. In Afrika there were no borders. Borders came with colonisation. Before borders the inhabitants of Afrika moved about all over as nomads who would move according to where there were green pastures and animals to hunt. So it possible that some tribes of the Bantu might have moved north in pursuit of greener pastures. But the fact remains that the Khoi and the Bantu have coexisted in Southern Africa for centuries without conflict.
Let's hope that we can resolve the land question and share the land.
#IzweLethu
References
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Humankind
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mapungubwe
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Zimbabwe
www.sahistory.org.za/article/khoikhoi
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Coloureds
www.1820settlers.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I114401&tree=master
Merely stating the fact that wikipedia is not a reliable source, as this is a website anyone can edit at any stage. copied from google.
"Wikipedia is not a reliable source for citations elsewhere on Wikipedia. As a user-generated source, it can be edited by anyone at any time, and any information it contains at a particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or simply incorrect."
Baie verkeerd koi san se tekeninge is nog steeds op baie plekke op klippe te sien en die
Bantoes het hulle in grotte in gejaag vuur in die openinge gemaak en hulle met rook versmoor die wat uitkom doodgesteek dit is n feit so vertel deur n ou koi san aan my voor oupa so kry asb jou feite reg voor jy n spul stront gorrel
Everyone in South Africa currently with enough adequate land to build a home and grow enough food to feed yourself raise your hand.
Everywhere Europeans go, the rewrites the history of the place, When Jan Van Reebek left his Homeland of Zealand in Holland, and he arrived Kaap Stad, a Cape Coast in English, for him to reclaim the so called empty land, he must rewrite history, that what he did. How is it Possible, that the European, that came fro another Continent, will say the found empty land, that is impossible. What happen in South Africa, happen Mozambique, Angola, Namibia, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Zambia. But many this Countries, some settlers agree on land settlements, some did agree, like Angola, and Mozambique they went to War with Portuguese to liberate themselves and their Land, Zimbabwe did the same things. All South African both settlers and Indigenous people, must come together on the table, for dialogue and move their Country forward. And the white South African need to stop been arrogant of Superior Complex, and come together with their fellow South African and build rainbow nation. Many have leaves there for three generations. They are African too.
You are not listening to the answers that I put to you that's your problem
Vir eens in ons lewens sit julle geskille op een. Ons moet saam staan. As jy ni3 kan sien 2at gebeur nie is jy blind....
Andre Visagie stem 110% saam
Fact vs emotion. I personally am boycotting any products from SA. The description of the murders are horrific and barbaric. The land is dished out to people without capital or training and that will be the end of agriculture in SA. They did this in Zimbabwe and they did it in USSR and only 20million lives perished there from starvation and war when the skilled farmers were killed and taken over. You need to learn from history. The writing is on the wall! God help you all!
Kock Wiesel firstly there was no medium for the little guy back then. You and I just got the propaganda.
Secondly, showing your support for murders on this medium ain't exactly smart.. makes you the proverbial rabbit with the gun that won't help much. But that's the beauty of this medium... everybody gets their say and that's fair.
You like the boiling and raping of children buddy?
Nobody, whatever their ethnic backround, where I'm from supports that behaviour. Could be a few mentally ill people but I've never met them.
Kock Wiesel I'm Irish, 800 years of British rule, a famine ignored by our neighbours that cost half our population and 75 years of war once our invaders left. You build bridges and you get the fuck over them. People migrated to your country and settled. You know.. like Africans have been doing since forever. Don't forget that strong theories suggest that Europeans migrated there from Africa. Your just a little selective as to what part of history of the human story you wish to hang on to. Your ancestors are no strangers to invading lands. We are all cut from the same tree! Do what you have to do but live with the consequences and own them!
Kock Wiesel be a hate filled racist if you want dude. The farmers are there longer than about 95 % of black population in SA. They had one war and one just like any other tribal war there. It's just the skin colour you hate. That makes you a racist. I'm out.
Peace!
Kock Wiesel supported Tutsi. Supported who ever the fuck is getting wiped out! That's what I learnt from the occupation of my country. Which by the by is getting increasingly occupied by all sorts of people from Africa, India and the middle east. Nobody is hunting them down. You're a troll dude
Fuck off!
Kock Wiesel fuck off troll!
We don't want RDP house and tittledeeds we need land.
Liziwe Mabona well maby if people start thinking and voteing for the right president who has brains and can keep the economy in its place people might be able to get a job and buy your own land
Its funny how he swerves the factual questions.
Facts that they don't like facing up to.
But you haven't been oppressed since 1994? I don't understand?
Nonsense maan, Europeans are Europeans, they're not Afrikans. This black commentator doesn't see us, awarding our identity to devils who once used it to against us.
"I DISSAGREE WITH THE CONTENTS OF THE CURRENT PROCESS" TOUGHEN UP BUTTERCUP
Kafflish
jou ma
I feel like we were let down from the first time after 1994 what was supposed to be done was to transfer the wealth of South Africa equally to every South African,then in this 24 years if we were busy working on accepting each other and forgiving each other by now we would be one big family of black and white, remember you taught us hatred amoung each other so teaching each other accepting and forgiving each other would be returning favour.......instead whites hold on power cause they love to play superiors of blacks........so called masters for that there would be never a peace in South Africa cause you never did the right thing,we will turn being like a scratched cd talk one thing over and over again that you stole and brutally killed from us!!!!
Roets apartheid or the tiny white regime did not look or waste time with africans origin or tribe as long as you were black you were on the other side that is how simple. So the issue of talking to every tribe differently is not your problem please leave it to us africans to sort it ourselves. You are fighting for right to ownership we have been fighting for the right to life and right to freedom to move around our God given ancestral land. Today you want to be an expert on African tribal clans so you can use that as a divide and rule tactics. Our ancestral land had no limits even if you don't see us in 10 years but it was still of use especially during drought and migration routes.
ntwana twakwa whites have also been fighting for freedom not just blacks the same with all races also land belongs to everyone and if u say whites stole the land just forget about it its the same as saying your moms moms moms stole my moms moms moms candy so u own me another piece of candy . Its just stuped stop going to the past and look to the future
ALL land must be state owned By the SOUTH AFRICAN Goverment(THE STATE) Farmers must be given 99 year leases with deeds to that effect, no one can own Land in AFRICA permanantly, Africans own AFRICA. Minorities who are not indigenous Africans are guests of the Africans and need to know and understand they are there on the Africans good will and therefore should have have respect to kindness of the Africans and the Africans should look after their guests and peace and harmony should prevail.Remember you are in Africa because its better than where you come from. If you feel otherwise you and your lot should make plans to seek other destinations.If non indigenous people have any miss understanding about been black African they should look in the mirror hopefuly they will get their answer, Kind Regards.
Andrew Davidson so doesn't Russia own all of Europe then ?
give them jobs , and they can all buy our own land, simple
Colours india.my grandpa family farm 205 years COLOURS
WHY DID THEY NOT GET SOMEONE LIKE NDLOZI INSTEAD OF SOME RANDOM BLACK DUDE? NDLOZI WOULD DESTROY THIS ERNST ROETES CLOWN.
I feel like land Restitution is the proper solution. Under apartheid many were forcefully removed from their homelands, and these are the people who deserve land restitution.
stupid debate because you need historians who have access to all paperwork to debate and reach agreement
Jurgen Maletzky
I understand the argument but there is too much murky water to sift through. Isn't it rather more obvious to simply assume that ALL land belongs to black and colored South Africans first since they were here first and then the whites and Asians etc comes after. Its like a race (excuse the pun lol) the one who is first wins. We are currently arguing backwards, the people that came after the first place guys are holding the gold trophy while we discus who is the actual winners. It seems pretty obvious.
You guys are idiots. 70% of the land area of South Africa is uninhabitable without technology to drill boreholes. The 30% or so which is currently tribal land and state land inhabited by black tenants, is the full extent of permanent settlements before colonization. There is no stolen ancestral land, it's all already under black management.
Bullshit, whites still own more than 80% of private land. Yes, the blacks were forcefully pushed into homelands using the 1913 land act. Then there were the Berlin conference which allowed European countries to divide up African into their colonies.
+B S Not really. The 1913 Native Land Act said that 13% of the land surface should belong to blacks exclusively; at the time, blacks only lived on 9% of the land area, which was the most fertile. So they actually got a bonus of half again the area they actually lived on, to give them room to expand. Or did you imagine that they lived on 100% of the land surface, spread around evenly? Even though most of South Africa is dry and infertile?
Whites still own 80% of private land which is owned by individuals; that's only about 22% or so of the total land area, and a lot of it is in the desert, which isn't very valuable. The largest single owner of land is the state. You can't blame whites for this though because the picture would look entirely different if black tenants on state-owned land were given title deeds to the land they live on.
And I don't know what on Earth the Berlin Conference has to do with any of this, since most white South Africans at the time were not the representatives of any colonial power. We fought several wars to avoid that, in fact. Didn't you know that?
Ek pràat vir ons mense
If they took the land from us I think that it will be acknowledged for them to pay for the land the question that you are asking it's a good question can the white people pay for that land
So if I go to England and find myself a piece of land then it's fair game it's mines.. Put my African flag on that its not occupied right... Lol fckn jokes
BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID. BERLIN CONFERENCE. 1913 NATIVE LAND ACT. APARTHEID.
This is why farm attacks are increasing...
Shimza l m well at least blacks are willing to admit that they race hate crimes, so much for the government saying they just "robberies" yeah we've known this for a while.
Green Classified your race turned us into savages. Do you know how many peaceful protests we have done to the point where we stopped being peaceful and start calling a spade a spade?
Shimza l m hmm interesting, where do I even begin with your comment, seen that its so vague & all over the place. I don't know for how much longer your flimsy excuses are going to hold water, seen that we have been a marginalised race for 20 years now, we start our own businesses because there's no jobs, we go work overseas taking any work we can get to make decent money, we do all we can to survive despite legal racism. All the while constantly being judged & belittled in our home country. Whites selling up & leaving, empty land wherever you go & still you EFF, ANC fools cry about "no land", "whites own all the land" I would laugh if it wasn't so damn sad!
Green Classified you're really not the target dear. The white people we are talking abt are those who are overseas but own land here in mzansi, vast amounts of land which can be turned into something productive. We are talking abt the white person who owns large hectares of land, of which he benefited from apartheid and from those segregation acts. We are talking about a person who forcefully took land from the Natives without compensation! But my sister you're not part of this situation. We can stand White people unlike 80% of the Whites who can't stand us.
Shimza l m I agree with you, but these land grabs need to be 100% honest & transparent. You wrong when you say most whites hate you, wherever I go I see people talking to one another, working side by side. I see kids playing, that don't see colour yet our politicians instigate mistrust. If South Africans dignity lies with owning land then their will must be done, but its not going to be easy. Lots of work ahead, & economic hubs however small, now need to grow significantly. So to accommodate these new land owners. Land will always just be dust unless its new occupants foresee a future & a clear vision is in construction. However the government addresses this its history in the making, & believe me all South Africans wish this to go down the best way possible. Because loss of life over this issue is just to horrifying to even think about.
Dude they clowned you
REPARATION
😂😂😂Empty land is free land, I’m gonna find myself an empty land
Mandla Ntulo thiers alot of empty land !
Don't cry my pink friends your past is catching up on you....
LIGHT UP BIKES MENELIK ROAD 0755514642 the blacks did the exact same thing that whites did so stop bullshiting
Ek sien een moerse oorlog kom.
En daarna die Volkstaat. Met 'n pragtige sementmuur al om die grens en masjiengeweerneste in die torings. En geen meer mieliemeel of ProNutro voedingsskema's aan die spul daarbuite nie. Hulle het ons mos nie nodig nie, nou ja, laat ons sien hoe hulle dit geniet om die Sjinese se besittings te wees.
The Majority want you dead, the Government wants you dead, close it down dude you need to go. Let the Communist attempt live off the land and figure out gardening. You white Africans are refugee's (Borer War) get used to it. Try to get out.
No straight answer. You don't even have solution. You don't know what the fuck what you have or had... yet you want to take everything... you will loose everything..mark my words...
Julle weet wie julle is...
Blanket statements this guy got to go we dont care of the out come of the white man.
Oh well...If you lost your farm, you could always go to work flippin' burgers for McDonald's.
ruclips.net/video/oevUpUtw_Sg/видео.html