Across the Spectrum - The Eternal Security Debate: Can Someone Lose Their Salvation? (Theology 101)
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- This video summarizes the debate about eternal security, as it's presented in Across the Spectrum: Understanding Issues in Evangelical Theology by Gregory Boyd and Paul Eddy.
The book is available on Amazon: amzn.to/3ewuSnh
Evangelical Christians agree that God initiates salvation. God is the one who pursues us even when we had no desire to pursue him. But can a person lose or give away their salvation. Do willful, persistent patterns of sin in a person's life keep them from being saved? On the Eternal Security side of the debate, Christians might not make any progress in sanctification, but that doesn't have an effect on their salvation. On the Conditional Security side, God expects his followers to be both saved and sanctified. However, in the end, both views agree that a consistent commitment to Christ is required if we are to have security in this life and the next.
Skip ahead:
1:47 // The Middle Position
2:40 // The Eternal Security View
6:03 // The Conditional Security View
betteryouthministry.com
Salavtion is a gift... Service is not... once you are born again and saved you belong to God forever whether you are and obedient child or not... if this is not true than who will be saved when God's standard is perfection?
OSAS!
Free gifts can be forfeited!
And our salvation "in Christ Jesus" can be forfeited through ignoring of Christ's command and living in unrepentant sin, just like Adam forfeited his position in the garden by disbelieving God's warning and eating of the forbidden fruit.
@Robert How does any of those questions deal with the question of whether or not a person can turn away from his/her origninal faith and end up lost?
@Robert
I really couldn't care less about what they think they are enjoying.
I am more sorry for them, because they have been deceived by sleak talking preachers, who choose to only give them a small portion of the Bible, instead of the whole counsel of God. They are just like those Israelite who thought the nothing would happen to them because they were children of Abraham & Jesus told them that they will end up in outer darkness. My soul cries fir them and all of the world around me (including the drug addict, prositutes, pimps, murderers, agnostics, atheist, muslims, etc...)
@Robert I will attempt to answer your question and give my opinions, just to be civil!
1. It is hard for me to believe that a little child could really understand the meaning of sin, righteousness & God's coming judgement, that would cause us to repent & put our faith in Christ Jesus.
2. I really think the major doctrines of the modern Lutheran church is extremely problematic. Many embrace the errors of the Catholic church along with extreme liberalism & Higher Criticism that accept every conjecture & false speculations about the Bible, its origins & the person of Christ.
3. The Bible does not give assurance if eternal life to people who aren't currently believing in all the essential facts about Jesus (God, became man, died, buried & rose from the dead, to justify & live forever as Lord, Priest & soon coming King).
Hey I enjoy the simplistic breakdown of theological subjects good stuff! You don't see much of this for youth!
That was really helpful! Thank you so much
Great presentation in both positions.
godbless tovyour podcast ministry...
Thank you
That was a great presentation. I believe that it IS possible to lose one's salvation. The reasoning that if someone falls away, then they were never saved in the first place is circular reasoning and I know that isn't true from personally experience. I do believe in conditional security. There are just too many verses and stories in the bible that bear witness to it along with my heart and common sense. But I could be wrong.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
*FALSE*
The very idea of losing your salvation IS a works-based salvation. They’ll say, “you don’t have to do any works to get saved, but you’ll lose it if you don’t do the work.” You’re still working to get to Heaven at that point. They’ll say, “if you do something bad then God’s going to take it away from you” - basically what their saying is, you have to keep the commandments in order the STAY saved. In Galatians keeping the commandments is called the works of the law, and we’re not justified by the works of the law. We are justified by the faith in Jesus Christ.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by *faith* without the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that *believeth* on me hath everlasting life (John 6:47)
He didn’t say you HAD everlasting life, as if you had lost it. Or get everlasting life in the future. If I lost it, it didn’t last forever, it wasn’t everlasting. You can’t have everlasting life temporarily, that’s an oxymoron.
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, *Believe* on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:31)
I believe in OSAS but some who don't are OSAS they just don't know it. Others are not saved.
Dan, You are correct about how people can lose their salvation. The Galatians are a great example.
Galatians 5:4-7
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[5]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[6]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
[7]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
@@bobbyadkins6983 What Paul is teaching is that if you trust in works and not grace you will not be saved. This does not have be escalated to the level of believers who were saved by grace by believing losing salvation because they now trust in works. The initial belief would secure salvation.
IF SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL THEN BY GOD'S STANDARD OF PERFECTION ALL ARE LOST.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
That’s justification of faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Justification is not salvation in the context of its entirety. Justification is where you begin your life as a believer.
@@paeng46 it says saved, not justified.
@@donhaddix3770
Yes, it says saved and not justified. So, if it means complete salvation, why then are believers still going to be condemned if they disobey God by living in the sinfulness of the flesh? (see Romans 8:1, 13). Why then are they still going to destroyed by God if they defile their bodies and spirits by living immorally in fornication and adultery? (see 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 6:18-20).
@@-psykonaut-
Ah ok, so you have another way of understanding Romans 8 my friend😁😁. It says exactly as -“TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, who walk not after the flesh, BUT…” Do you get that? It never says carnal people like you are saying. It says “THEN WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS”.
@@-psykonaut-
I’ve read the whole chapter my friend. I even read the whole book. It says what it said there my friend. You only need the common sense to understand what Paul said in the text. Believers are not condemned ONLY IF they’re walking in the Spirit. What if they don’t, but walk in the flesh? Now, you would perhaps argue that no believer would ever do that. That’s not what the text says. The text gives a clear warning. You will be condemned if you walk in the flesh EVEN IF YOIU’RE IN CHRIST. Yes, there’s no condemnation to them which are in Christ. But that is if they are not walking in the sinful lifestyle of the flesh. And to elaborate that further to your understanding, read verse 13. The text says, “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die”.
Since both camps acknowledge the existence of apostasy, it comes down to a dispute about categories. If apostates were not of the elect, their falling away doesn’t negate the promise of salvation to believers. So pointing to apostates themselves doesn’t negate the eternal security position. Will is an underlying issue. Was there something about Peter’s betrayal that was less sinful for more meriting of forgiveness that Judas? What enabled Peter to repent and believe if not Christ?
James 2:19-20
[19]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James is not talking about a salvation issue, the people he wrote to are already believers. James open in chapter 1 verse 2 with " My brethren"....Context is everything. Example, if I were to use John 1: 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not OUT of context it sounds like the Jewish people will never be saved. Proof of good works coinciding with the believer is John 15: 16 " Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. "
Learn the Parable of the Seed Sower to know the answer. Lastly, you can only be born again 'ONCE!" not over and over
I believe the two views are actually the “unconditional eternal security “ view and the “Conditional Eternal Security “ view.
When asked what I believe about this. I’m always careful of the words I use (and don’t use). And I state it like this…”I believe in the eternal security of the BELIEVER”. This says what the Bible teaches without ignoring all of the “If” statements. Each one of us need to remember a simple rule when we study scripture. CONTEXT MATTERS!, A Text without a Context becomes a Pre-text used to support a Presupposition. Over the centuries many philosophies and presuppositions have been added to the Christian faith that distort/confuse our understanding. The most obvious one, is that by looking at the most simple definition of a word, like “Faith” or “Love” is all that scripture ever means by it.
The new birth cannot be undone period
Would have been nice to hear some thoughts on John 3:1-21. In my humble opinion, if you’re truly “reborn”, your faith has been perfected and your place in heaven assured. It doesn’t mean you’ll be perfect the rest of your life, though (Romans 7). I also think someone who’s reborn isn’t going to be committing major sins. There’s absolutely a hierarchy in the degree of sin and that’s worth thinking about too.
If I were to look at the evidence in this video alone, the eternal security supporting verses are a very week support for this doctrine. The verses are almost unrelated to the eternal security argument. The conditional security verses in this video clearly support conditional security. The Hebrews verse is unambiguous went it comes to can salvation be lost.
Stepping out of this video's evidence for a minute, why would satan temp Christians if they were assured salvation? Perhaps satan wants to reduce a Christian's reward in heaven? That would be implausible too.
Final note to anyone seeing this video and these comments. While it is pretty clear with the nature of God and the multiple verses in the bible that you cannot be forced into heaven against your will, you cannot hiccup and accidentally burp out your salvation. The Lord disciplines his people if they are struggling with the flesh, quite severely sometimes, to help put them back on track.
The devil may tempt you not with the goal of tou losing your salvation, but in order to make you less effective in telling others the gospel to save them. Plus, he would be defying God when making people give into temptation.
@@AlexAlex-ij3mz My response to 2 Timothy 2:12 is that you can't disown that which you never owned. Also Hebrews 6:6 cannot be ambiguously interpreted nor even "Calvinistically" twisted into "then it means that they were never saved to begin with".
@@shadowmist1246 I do agree with you that Hebrews 6: 4-6 isn't talking about fake believers, but I also don't think that it has anything to do with salvation. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out. It has been interpreted that there can be a loss of rewards. Maybe do some research on that interpretation.
@@AlexAlex-ij3mz Hebrews 6:6 specifically states ".To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again...." Therefore it is obviously referring to salvation. There is nothing in Hebrews 6:4-6 that could even be interpreted as possibly referring to altered heavenly rewards.
@@shadowmist1246 But have you heard of the view that I am talking about?
I would really like for the Eternal Salvation view to be true, but I think scripture is more leaning towards a Conditional Salvation. I think, even if you favor Conditional Salvation, there is a serious question one must ask. At what point does God's mercy end? Where does God say He has had enough of your rebellion and turn you over to a reprobate mind?
I do not claim to know a lot of the answers. I just think we must do our best to follow Christ, repent and ask forgiveness of ours sins, and follow him to the best of our ability. I think God knows we are weak, and I think he knows we struggle. He is a good shepherd, but we must be willing to follow.
Seventy times seven.. that’s God’s view of forgiveness.
Amen! God doesn't take back gifts. Eternal = forever.
Rom 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Lets look at what Jesus says about salvation. John 6: 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day
His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. It doesn't matter how many times a person strays, if they return to God, He is happy to receive them again. Yet, I don't think a person can personally know and experience God's love and mercy while they continue in rebellion. They must repent, return to him and trust him again.
Conditional Security doesn't create insecurity. To the contrary as long as one continues to believe then they are secure and they have assurance of their salvation. It is rather eternal security that is dangerous because, if taken to it's logical conclusion, it would mean that a believer could become a Muslim and still be saved. In fact John MacArthur, a proponent of Eternal Security, once said that you could even take the Mark of the Beast and still be saved. Such a position is dangerous. It's a license to do whatever you want with no eternal consequences. Furthermore no Conditional Security guy thinks that just any sin, say lying to the government on your taxes, will by itself exclude you from salvation. Rather it has to be a big, horrible, sin. And it has to be unrepentant. Even under Conditional Security you're never at risk of losing your salvation at a moments notice. That would be another view called Eternal Insecurity. There are some fringe groups who hold to Eternal Insecurity but those are very few. Under Conditional Security even someone who sins can have assurance of Salvation under I John 1:9. Simply put there's every reason to hold to conditional security and no reason to hold to eternal security.
You are talking about an unregenerated heart , not a born again believer...Ezekiel 36: 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
I would say that we keep our salvation the same way we got it to begin with: faith in Jesus Christ. It's not about doing enough good works to merit eternal life, it's about faith.
The following is an excerpt of a message given by H.A. Ironside in 1934: Eternal Security: Its Meaning
-
QUOTE: When we speak of the eternal security of the believer, what do we mean? We mean that once a poor sinner has been regenerated by the Word and the Spirit of God, once he has received a new life and a new nature and has been made partaker of the divine nature, once he has been justified from every charge before the throne of God, it is absolutely impossible that that man should ever again be a lost soul. Having said that, let me say what we do not mean when we speak of the eternal security of the believer. We do not mean that it necessarily follows that if one professes to be saved, if he comes out to the front in a meeting, shakes the preacher's hand, and says he accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior, that that person is eternally safe. It does not mean that if one joins a church or makes a profession of faith, is baptized, becomes a communicant, and takes an interest in Christian work, that that person is forever secure. It does not mean that because one manifests certain gifts and exercises these gifts in Christian testimony, that that person is necessarily eternally secure. Our Lord Jesus Christ said to the people of His day, as recorded in Matthew 7:21-23: "Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doth the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? And in Thy name have cast out devils? And in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." Such people then may have been very active in what is called Christian work - they have preached, they have cast out demons, that is, their influence has been such that men and women have found deliverance from satanic power through their ministrations in the name of Jesus, they have professed with their lips, they have accomplished many wonderful works, but they are found in that day among the lost, and when they plead their great activity and their earnestness in Christian testimony, the Lord says to them,
"I never knew you." Notice, He does not say to them, "I used to know you, but you have forfeited My favor and I do not know you any longer." He says, "I never knew you." END QUOTE
Conditional security is a scary doctrine. How can a person be free from anxiety if they are not secure?? I'll never believe it. I believe the devil gets great joy over that doctrine.
OSAS is a false and scary doctrine.
Osas is a license to sin
@@elisiasmith2183 that's what they think. But no they will be judged. We all will
@@elisiasmith2183 You don't understand God's grace to make that statement.
@@Keepitoriginalministry
What is Grace?
What does grace really mean? Grace is what someone else does to benefit you that you do not deserve.
Grace consists of three simple elements: 1) you did not do the work; 2) you benefit from it; 3) and you do not deserve it.
Conclusion
Grace is simple. Grace must have these three elements or it is no longer grace.
The greatest example of grace in human history is found in the preaching of the cross, which is the gospel of the grace of God.
By the grace of Christ by giving His life for us, shedding His blood, being buried, and then rising from the dead, He performed all that we could not do to get our sins forgiven and have life with Him eternally in Heaven. This is the salvation gospel message we only get from Paul’s writings.
This precious gift of salvation by grace is offered freely without condition to every ungodly sinner in the world who does not deserve it. And when someone believes and puts their trust in this gospel alone, they are saved once and forever. (Rom 3:23-26; Rom 4:5).
Salvation is by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9).
Eph 2:7 KJV That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 KJV Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 11:6 KJV And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Some may say, “This just gives you the license to sin and live any way you want”. Grace is never a license (an authorization) to sin, ever. But if grace is grace, it must say that your sin, your works, your good deeds are not necessary nor does it hinder grace to take place.
Rom 3:23 KJV For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 KJV Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
God’s grace is free. To add anything to it makes it no longer grace by definition
Yes, we should try to NEVER to sin, but that will never totally happen in this life. People underestimate God's grace and overestimate their works or part in being saved. Works do not save us, works do not keep us saved and works do not prove we are saved.
Only AFTER we are saved can we try to do the following verses:
Rom 12:1 KJV I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 KJV And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Cor 6:19 KJV What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Cor 6:20 KJV For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
I’m of the “conditional camp” believers. Paul is always speaking to believers in his letters to the seven churches. He takes for granted that they believe already and gives them further instruction for sanctification and holding dearly to what they have. Some of his last words were expressing how he had kept the faith and fought the good fight! Why would Peter tell us that we should strive to make or calling and election sure, if all it takes is to just believe one time and then go on your merry way, not even giving a second thought to the commitment you had made. I can vouch for one thing…You won’t find any nonbelievers in heaven. Especially those that turn to other gods… No Baal worshipers in heaven either. It’s up to us whether we believe or not… But He is always there and willing to take you back if you return in repentance and humility and sincerity. I speak from the voice of experience. I returned to my Hebrew roots from birth because of all the debating and different views of Christ and Christianity, which I had fallen in love with. I soon realized how much I needed Yeshua in my life, and as soon as I turned to Him, I realized He was already there, waiting for me. Thanks be to God for such an experience! 🙌🏻 I’m His forever! 🙏🏻
Great explanation! Thank you! Glad you returned to your Hebrew roots 🙏🏽 do you watch the Truthunedited channel by chance?
@@SweetTea742 I think you misunderstood. I left Judaism and returned to my faith in Christ once I realized I couldn’t live without out Him during the time I went back to my Hebrew Roots. I’ll never forsake Him again!
2 Chronicles 15:2
2 and he went out to meet Asa and said to him, “Hear me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin: The Lord is with you while you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you.
No… what channel is that?
@@zeemontana141 Ohhhh okay! No problem 👍🏼 sorry about that! I was thinking you were in Christianity first and then went to your Hebrew roots... That was my mistake. That channel Truthunedited, is really a non denominational channel, it's basically "Christianity" but stripped all the false doctrine... It's basically for those who want to remain in Christ but know the truth-unedited 🙏🏽
@@SweetTea742 I’ll check it out. Thanks.
@@SweetTea742 I’m laughing because of our miscommunication. I was born Jewish, converted to Christianity, became disillusioned because of all the arguments among different sects, so I left and returned to Judaism, only to discover I couldn’t live without Christ. 😂 Hope that makes sense.
Eternal security is a protestant teaching
Read Hebrews again in context about deliberate/willful sin. It's referring to the Hebrews who converted from the law to believing on Jesus, but felt that they still needed to go back to the old sacrificial laws because the blood of Jesus wasn't good enough for forgiveness of sins. It is the sin of non genuine belief, sin of unbelief. Read entire chapter and context.
So maintenance salvation insists that a person can truly believe in Jesus and still go to hell. 🤔 because they did bad things… like the things they did before they were saved when God loved them and gave His Son. 🤔
I had a pastor who told me there are equal verses that seem to suggest we cannot lose salvation and that seem to suggest we can… I said no… there are only verses that tell us that we cannot and the rest are misunderstood.
🤔 ?CAN A BORN AGAIN PERSON BE "UNBORN"? 🤔
This is a statement, or question you will sometimes see, especially when discussing the topic of eternal security. At first this would seem to be a fair and honest question.
Obviously, it's not possible for someone physically born to Be "Unborn".
What's really happening here is a common strategy called a "red herring". Or simply said a distraction away from what's important or true.
Drug dealers will often use vacuum sealed containers made of glass or metal to distract police dogs from picking up the scent.
Christ often used physical, or natural examples to bring better spiritual understanding.
You will notice that almost always false teachers will do the opposite. They will turn a spiritual topic to a physical or natural example to keep you from understanding the true spiritual TRUTH.
"Can a born person be Unborn" is one of the most common examples of this devious strategy.
If they can "throw off your scent" and get you to focus your attention on an IMPOSSIBILITY, then often times they can keep you from the truth or what's important.
The truth of the matter is this is all a matter of spiritual positioning. This is what I mean:
In scripture Believers are sometimes referred to as a branch, a sheep, wheat, or a son.
These of course are simply similes. Obviously, we are not a tree branch, any more than an unbeliever is a goat, or tare. being "born again", or "born of the Spirit" is simply an expression of showing that our spiritual positioning has changed from the father of lies to the Heavenly Father. The example that we see in John 8:44, shows that unbelievers are under the spiritual headship or positioning of the father of Lies.
And of course, once an unbeliever receives Christ as their LORD and SAVIOR, their spiritual positioning is now under that of the Heavenly Father.
Eph 1:5 - "Having predestinated us unto the ADOPTION of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"
As you can see, we are not naturally, or supernaturally God's children until we change our spiritual positioning to that of under the Heavenly Father through relationship with Christ.
Obviously, a child that is biologically born of Earthly parents, cannot be biologically changed to a different set of parents, right? This is of course why false teachers try to shift the attention to the Natural, taking you away from the spiritual. Once again, they try to get you focusing on an IMPOSSIBILITY to then make a comparison with something spiritual that you will be deceived into believing that is also an IMPOSSIBILITY.
Expressions like "once a son always a son" will be used to further promote their agenda, playing off of their original statement that "a born person cannot be UNBORN".
Spiritual sonship is more of WHO we are serving, & who is our covering.
They try to use humanistic, natural, or carnal examples to mesh with spiritual Concepts, to distract.
Next time someone tells you "ONCE A SON ALWAYS A SON" ask them if the father of lies is still their father! (John 8:44)
All of a sudden what they said was IMPOSSIBLE now they must be THANKFUL it's a LIE!!!
CONCLUSION:
*UNBELIEVERS are children of the devil (JOHN 8:44)
*BELIEVERS in Christ are children of God (John 1:12)
*The expression that Jesus used in John 3:3 was NOT speaking of a natural birth (or rebirth), but of a SPIRITUAL birth when we receive Christ as Lord and Savior and go from a child of the devil, to a child of God. And as we can see from Ephesians 1:5 we then become ADOPTED into God's family.
*So "once a son always a son" is NOT biblical! Just as those who have received Christ have changed "spiritual fathers" (from Satan to God) those that depart from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1) can change "spiritual fathers" again! (From God back to Satan).
Hebrews 3:12-13
"Take heed, BRETHREN, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
Not sure why you are using the NLT. That's one of the poorest translation and not suitable for Bible study. In 1 cor 15:2, It's only the NLT that translated with the "continue" which makes it very deceptive. It's not a continue process as the NLT claims to be, it's a yes or no question. Other translation will say hold firm (aka trust in the gospel) or not. Summary; you cannot lose your salvation if "yes," you hold firm to the gospel.
Romans 8 is OSAS.
The holy spirit is the deposit guarantee is another one
Praise God a child of God can NEVER lose their salvation 💯
Too bad scripture disagrees with this false teaching.
@@leonardu6094 I disagree, since scripture is clear on the subject of eternal security.
@@eternalsecurityofthesaints9581 You're going to run into issues trying to explain away the passages warning against apostasy.
@@leonardu6094 Problems will arise for those who hold the opinion that a child of God can lose their salvation or sonship as well. In fact, I'll start first with one scripture (since it is only necessary to provide one scripture at a time as not to bombard a brain in a single reply).
Matthew 1:21- You shall call his name Jesus, for he WILL SAVE HIS PEOPLE.
This is a matter-of-fact statement; a prophecy from the mouth of an angel to Joseph concerning Jesus before he walked the earth. A group identified as "his people", according to the prophecy, will most assuredly be saved.
So, the question remains, if Jesus loses any of "his people", has he failed to live up to his own name? Is this a false prophecy?
@@eternalsecurityofthesaints9581 Lol so this is how you deal with the issue? by writing off because it conflicts with pre-commitment to OSAS? Wow, talk about burying one's head in sand. Its no wonder you can't be wrong. You've already decided no matter what scripture actually says, you'll either ignore or re-interpret to fit your own theology. Galatians 5:4 refutes your entire premise. Thanks for your time though, it's quite clear your presuppositions dictates how you read the bible.
Conditional security is straight from the bowels of hell!!!!
Galatians 5:4-7
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[5]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[6]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
[7]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Written to BELIEVERS (Rom.1:6-7)
Romans 6:16
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to OBEY, you are that one’s slaves whom you OBEY, whether of...
🔥SIN LEADING TO DEATH,🔥
»»»OR«««
of
👉OBEDIENCE👈
🎯LEADING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?"🎯
GREEK - OBEDIENCE
ὑπακοή hypakoḗ, hoop-ak-o-ay'; from G5219; attentive hearkening, i.e. (by implication) compliance or submission:-obedience, (make) obedient, obey(-ing).
🔥👉"Therefore do NOT LET SIN👈🔥
reign in your mortal body, that you should OBEY it in its lusts"
Romans 6:12
(A PERSONAL CHOICE)
*Everyone righteous or wicked dies a physical death, so what is the only other death revealed in the bible??
🔥☠️ SPIRITUAL DEATH ☠️ 🔥
"But she who >>lives in pleasurelive according to the FLESH<
🔥»»»YOU WILL DIE;«««🔥
but if {by the Spirit} you
>>>put to death the deeds of the BODY
If we are saved that means that the HOLY SPIRIT lives in us now... so if we where to LOSE salvation, whose fault is it? Ours? But didn't Jesus promised us that we would have God the Holy Spirit, who would guide us to all truth and justice?? This, would make Jesus (God the son) a liar... BUT if the fault is the Holy Spirit's for not "HELPING" us be Christlike, wouldn't that make the Holy Spirit inadequate for our sanctification, making God (The Father) a liar??
So you see, the argument is not if you CAN or CAN'T lose your salvation (Because you CAN'T), the argument is if you where REALLY BORN AGAIN.
God Bless.
Do you know what the term "born again" means and to whom it was about?
Amen
Salvation is free. God never told anyone to make Christian but to make disciples. And to Be a disciple there is a price to pay. Your own life. A salvation without fruit is not a salvation. Matthew 1:21 tells us that Jésus has come to free us from SIN. There is a fight but He
has given the Victory over sin. Furthermore all forget hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Yes, it is n’y grace and free. Thé fruit you bear or the lifestyle you live will show if you will Be saved or not at the résurrection day. Faith has to bear fruit. New life must be a reality. Salvation is not a concept based on a single prayer on a sunny or rainy day. Many are called...
Vitamines du Royaume Born again believers are chosen by Jesus. prayerfully consider your mention of fruit in regards to John 15 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
Can someone actually lose their salvation? Can they lose what God has given them? How about the warning scriptures? The answer is NO! You cannot lose your salvation! How could you be sealed by the Holy Spirit only to lose it? You will NEVER perish. You can lose your eternal rewards by living in sin. But you will remain saved.
Romans 8 says “life” cannot separate a believer from the love of Christ. Chew on that for a while.
Chewed and digested as true. Thanks.
what verse?
@@leonardu6094 Romans 8:38
@@Orbservation Thanks, I don't see anything in that verse that says you can't lose your salvation.
@@leonardu6094 That’s very interesting. What do you think it is saying then? The whole chapter is covering how “nothing” can separate us from Christ. We are a part of nothing as well.
Galatians 5:4-7
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[5]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[6]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
[7]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Here we have a clear example of a group of people that had been saved by the grace of God that had fallen from grace and were no longer saved. They needed to repent of their sins to be saved again.
0:39 Robbie. Stop it. Self control is the fruit of the spirit.
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”
1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;”
Ephesians 1:7 KJV
“neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”
Hebrews 9:12 KJV
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:23 KJV
Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Romans 10:9
Verse Concepts
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
1 John 5:4
Verse Concepts
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
Romans 11:20
Verse Concepts
Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Romans 11:23
Verse Concepts
And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
John 3:15
Verse Concepts
so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16
Verse Concepts
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36
Verse Concepts
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 5:24
Verse Concepts
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40
Verse Concepts
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John 1:12
Verse Concepts
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 20:31
Verse Concepts
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Acts 10:43
Verse Concepts
Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Hebrews 4:3
Verse Concepts
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“As I swore in My wrath,
They shall not enter My rest,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Matthew 9:2
Verse Concepts
And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, “Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.”
Mark 2:5
Verse Concepts
And Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
Luke 5:20
Verse Concepts
Seeing their faith, He said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven you.”
John 3:18
Verse Concepts
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Acts 13:39
Verse Concepts
and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Verse Concepts
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
1 Timothy 4:10
Verse Concepts
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1 Peter 1:9
Verse Concepts
obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
John 8:24
Verse Concepts
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Luke 8:12
Verse Concepts
Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Romans 9:32
Verse Concepts
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
Romans 4:14
Verse Concepts
For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified;
Source: bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Saved-By-Faith
Just imagine .... God died a horrible death, shed his perfect Holy Blood for the salvation of the whole world... In fact the entire cosmos.... That's how precious his blood is. When we believe, we are SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.... Sounds like Eternal security to me. Weak and unstable man cannot be entrusted with the work of Eternal salvation, in fact he cannot even be trusted to choose right, to simply believe. That's why I even tend to believe that God sovereignly elected a remnant before the foundation of the world according to his wisdom and council. These are definitely eternally secure.... Sin or no sin. The difference is going to be in the Eternal rewards and the position one will serve in, in Eternity. Will you serve as a King or a fruit picker in Jesus' orchards...🌹
Abide in Christ, or be cut off, wither and BURNT. Jesus tells us also "If you want to enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
You are preaching emotional arguments
conditional adds works.
works OR OBEDIENCE??
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT ONLY THE ONE WHO
👉DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER👈 who is in heaven" Matthew 7:21
works OR OBEDIENCE??
"For you have NEED of endurance, so that AFTER you have
👉DONE the will of God,👈
you may receive what was promised." Hebrews 10:37
works OR OBEDIENCE??
"But be
👉doers of the word,👈
and not hearers only, DECEIVING yourselves." James 1:22
works OR OBEDIENCE??
King James Bible
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto
👉ALL THAT OBEY HIM;"👈
Heb.5:9
Who do you believe?? Mans teachings OR JESUS CHRIST??
LETS NOT CONFUSE WORKS WITH OBEDIENCE!
OBEDIENCE: GREEK
ὑπακοή - attentive hearkening, i.e. (by implication) compliance or submission:-obedience, (make) obedient, obey(-ing).
WORKS: GREEK
ἔργον -(to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:-deed, doing, labour, work.
@@jasonkrause5509 is there a difference? yes.
God tells us in His word: "do not murder"
When we choose to not murder, is this "obedience" or "works" based on God's definitions?
OBEDIENCE: GREEK
ὑπακοή - attentive hearkening, i.e. (by implication) compliance or submission:-obedience, (make) obedient, obey(-ing).
WORKS: GREEK
ἔργον -(to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:-deed, doing, labour, work
As we can clearly see by God's definitions this is strictly a matter of OBEDIENCE and has absolutely nothing to do with "works" 👍
What happens if we mix these two terms up??
If I mis-define this and call this "works" what can we end up with?
🚫 do not murder = "works"
& "Our salvation is not based on works"
🚫 = "Therefore I can be a murderer and still be saved"
TRUTH =
"Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the
sexually immoral and
👉 murderers 👈
and idolaters, and *EVERYONE* who loves and practices falsehood." REVELATION 22:15
1Jo 3:15 - Whoever hates his brother is a
👉murderer,👈
and you know that
🚫no murderer🚫
has eternal life ABIDING IN HIMSELF.
DO YOU SEE HOW EASILY MIS-DEFINING A WORD CAN LEAD TO A DAMNABLE HERESY VERY QUICKLY??
Works are the RESULT of salvation! NEVER to earn it.
Obedience however is required....
If you never followed God's instructions (obedience) in Romans 10:9-10, could you have been saved??
@@jasonkrause5509 no
Yeah 1 Corinthians 15 is referring to the resurrection. Taking scripture out of context will help no one. Paul is talking about the truth of the resurrection, that without the resurrection no one is saved at all.
Written to BELIEVERS (Rom.1:6-7)
Romans 6:16
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to OBEY, you are that one’s slaves whom you OBEY, whether of...
🔥SIN LEADING TO DEATH,🔥
»»»OR«««
of
👉OBEDIENCE👈
🎯LEADING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?"🎯
GREEK - OBEDIENCE
ὑπακοή hypakoḗ, hoop-ak-o-ay'; from G5219; attentive hearkening, i.e. (by implication) compliance or submission:-obedience, (make) obedient, obey(-ing).
🔥👉"Therefore do NOT LET SIN👈🔥
reign in your mortal body, that you should OBEY it in its lusts"
Romans 6:12
(A PERSONAL CHOICE)
*Everyone righteous or wicked dies a physical death, so what is the only other death revealed in the bible??
🔥☠️ SPIRITUAL DEATH ☠️ 🔥
"But she who >>lives in pleasurelive according to the FLESH<
🔥»»»YOU WILL DIE;«««🔥
but if {by the Spirit} you
>>>put to death the deeds of the BODY