The Importance Of 3d Printer Safety
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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In this video, we take a look at a scary experience I recently had with a 3d printer I was testing. While doing normal operation, it began smoking on me. This was not the video that I had planned but figured 3d printer safety is something that is always worth talking about and is arguably the most import topic to discuss.
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Wow man that is super scary! Thank goodness you caught this
Dude I was shitting. Considering how often I have printers running at the same time for long periods of time. Definitely gave me a lot to think about as far as revisiting safety.
That's why Thermal Runaway needs to be an analogue system, and not only part of the firmware. If the CPU locks up for any reason, and the heater is on, it will remain in the on state until the CPU is reset, or power removed. You can't get a UL rating if this is possible.
That is exactly what I think happened. It just was left in the on position with no control or feedback to the CPU.
ModBot there is a myriad of physical events that can cause a processor to get into an unstable state. A high power RF transmitter, automotive shop, arc-welding, CNC milling of metals, lightening, and many other physical events cause EMF spikes that are collected by the wiring of your 3D printer, and sent directly to the motherboard. Even grounding spikes can cause issues. Sometimes they will cause the microprocessor to lockup, and sometimes they’ll simply cause a gate to toggle on. Both cases bypass the thermal runaway protection code. Thankfully you were there, and got lucky.
When I was working as an Electronics Engineer, we came across all of these circumstances. I’d say that the automotive environment was the worst for us, but a simple ground fault could fry all of the electronics as well. Anywho, there does need to be some kind of physical protection on the hot end that is similar to the protections that are in hair dryers, or electric ovens, which require UL (or similar) certification under law. If you hadn’t caught it when you did, this might have been a completely different discussion. I look forward to watching more from you in the future.
this is even easy to make just a comparator with a vref against the thermistor voltage to the reset or a reset/poweroff circuit
@@ModBotArmy since you mentioned that it happend when you plugged in the board it could be it was being held in reset and if that happens when the power fet for the heater is switched open it just goes.
@@KaelumYodi like some kind if bi-metal switch for protection you meen?
Good video, dude, glad you all were safe.
My dude! I hope you are doing good brotha ❤️
I designed a fire alarm system that automatically disconnects the 24VDC from the power supply to the printer. It'll use a commercial smoke detector, the System Sensor 2424, which operates on the 24VDC from the printer's PSU. For the alarm, I'll use a Wheelock AS fire alarm horn strobe. I'll probably also add some thermal switches in areas like the bed heater, the top of the hotend assembly, and on the heater and power screw terminals. I'm also going to plug the PSU into a smart plug with energy monitoring, that way if the printer's heaters are off for long enough it can send me a notification. (If the print ended or if the fire alarm system shut it off) Also, I'll be able to shut it off remotely.
A good enclosure would be a metal enclosure with rockwool on the sides. Rockwool is excellent for fire resistance.
This happened to me, it was the memory card slot fitting, i never leave a print now.
this happened to me when the firmware update crashed the board so it fully opened ALL the pins . it got so hot it distorted the o-ring from the water cooled hot end and self-doused itself . now I had blue fluid dripping from my hot end.
Simply add thermal fuse to print bed 150C and hotend like more then your printing temp. Use relays to use low voltage for fuse tripping. Simple and reliable.
Scary how fast things can go wrong, lucky you were close by.
I always have an RCD between the plug and the wall socket. Also a smoke detector and a powder fire extinguisher near by.
The idea of a smart fire detector and plug is a great idea. Deffo going to look into this as an option. Thanks for the suggestion.
The RCD is a good idea. The fire extinguisher is also a must. Thanks for the feedback and happy to make some safety suggestions :)
RCD (or GFCI for those in the States) only protects against shock hazards, i.e. from a power supply fault when the PSU happens to not be grounded, and is not at all protection against fire hazards.
Deffo going to put a firealarm in all my enclosures now
Not a safety problem, but I don't know how to fix it. I have a Kingroon KP3S and when I try to print PETG on it, "Err 1" shows and it doesn't work.
I once had my heater cartridge get cherry red, wasn’t a fun time but luckily I watch my printer.
Damn , that has never happened to me. Do you know what the cause was? faulty thermistor and no firmware protection enabled?
ModBot This one was my fault, I accidentally tugged on the thermistor and pulled it out of its spot. The heater cartridge just kept on heating up until I took a look and saw it was red.
@@itsvoodoo7050 but if thermal runaway protection was enabled it would have shut the heating off.
I noticed the Prusa I3 MK3S+ also crashes if you connect via Pronterface while a print is running. If I had to guess, I'd say that's a workaround for making sure this kind of thing doesn't happen. At least I hope so
At my dads work they have an engineering department and they had a 3d printer catch fire once it was most likely covered in sawdust or some thing like that but its very scary even with fire suppressant systems in place.
hmm, this makes me want to make a watchdog plugin for octoprint, if printer not responding, cut power.
I am using klipper firmware and that uses a similar thing with octoprint. Its really neat. But a special plugin for octoprint would be usefull for everyone. I my self have de printer pul a pin high and low that go through a optocopler to a attiny with its own supply that switches the psu of the printer. Its a hardware solution but software can come along way aswell
Next video should be My printer is slowly killing me, look what this guy PLA did "New 3D Printing Health Hazard? Is it safe to use your 3D Printer without an enclosure?"
Apparently they're not familiar with the concept of fail-safe. I don't run anything like this unattended, but if I did, I'd be tempted to build an enclosure out of something like wonderboard to contain any mishap. Won't stop a fire, but should contain it. Also rig up something to shut off the power automatically when smoke/heat is detected. And, watching the rest of the video, looks like you covered all that. ;)
Indeed, Makes me want to add secondary mosfets on my hotends with a watchdog safety, and a thermal fuse on the hotend... sheesh
Haha I was reading your comment and thinking "Hey I did cover that" and then I saw that you made it to that part of the video. Yeah can never be to safe especially when we are talking about electrical/fire.
happened to me as well few weeks back. VERY SCARY
Controller board may have locked up. A more robust safety system would have a temp shutoff implemented in hardware independent of the controller board. Though as far as I am aware no manufacturer has done this yet. Raise3d had a thermal runaway flaw that required a hardware fix, so even expensive printers can have these issues.
Bimetal thermal breakers are cheap. I would place them near the hot end and use one that opens at 300c.
Wow, scary. I've always worried about software controlling heating elements as no matter how good it is, software can go wrong. To give me an additional layer of safety, I added a power relay and safety circuit including thermal fuses. This system shuts down all power if anything gets hotter than I want it to, regardless of software control. I'm not saying it's 100% going to stop a fire but it is a backup layer of protection should anything go wrong with the firmware as it seems to have here. Video on my channel if anyone want to see how I did this. I think it's important that we all try to make 3d printing as safe as possible for everyone as you are doing here.
Could have been a ground loop that froze the motherboard. This means this MB is really crappy and/or you may have a bad grounding circuit in your shop.
Following you because you know good skateboard trucks! :P
I am quite sure this was an old Marlin bug. At least I think I remember reading about it in one of the releases.
I had the same issue with an skr 1.3 board. it has 2 fuses, 1 for the system and one for the high current circuit. The system fuse fried during a print with the head mosfet left opened.
This event coocked the silicone socket of the hotend so much that it ended brittle and I had to change the heat cartridge and the thermistor. This must mean the hotend reached something like 400 to 500 °C.
That is insane. Did you not know this happened until after the print? That is really scary.
@@ModBotArmy I found out the printer in this state when I got Back. In fact their was a shortcut in one of the stepper drivers (a malfunction) that induced an over-current and fried the 10A fuse. This issue is corrected on the latest skr motherboard.
STOP STOP STOP There are many 10 cents thermal cutouts - two terminal series temperature cutouts on the market select one for just above the maximum temperature you ever need bond to the plate. Well below the fire point, HOWEVER I use a 10 dollar PID temperature controller which overrides the mechanical (bimetallic too wide hysteresis ) old-fashioned oven temperature knob, with a small cpu containing software that accurately learns the temperature profile of the oven and maintains within a couple of degrees the food oven temp to cook. These are really simple to implement, use both in series - one for safty one for absolute control.. Sorry dude, to actually suggest a firmware update IMHO is total and utter nonesense as you are simply dangerously putting the danger back to the controller's already prven bad firmware, (which can crash anyway with mains spikes and other f/w fails) - an independent temperature controller is totally required IMEO, The small 10cent two terminal ones can be obtained from anywhere and they are ubiquitous, being the "ALL ELSE FAILED SO STOP" ---, so put "THERMAL CUTOUT" into google right now. For the more sophisticated ones you can select an accurate temperature too. (PID is = Proportional-Integral-Derivative (PID) control is the most common control type algorithm used and accepted in the furnace industry). Put both in a series circuit.... 10 cents and 10 USD saves a life or house or just your printer. PLEASE do research as above and get a techie to wire in the simple safety device and/or (preferably both) a proper independent controller. Every house oven has these worst case cut outs and many other appliances why this is not on any printer is BEYOND me as a 70 year old engineer. totally stupid design.....
Sounds like a bad usb pc data cable or ground issue.
It really is a strange one. I wish I could lock down what it was but I tried doing the same things again and it did not seem to be repeatable. Hoping it was a fluke, a scary one but just hoping it is not an issue that will be affecting other units.
Will you be able to return this printer and get a refund?
hurley messaged you on you blog, could you look at your Kl9 vat and saturn vats, I'm interested if the kl9 vat is easily securable to the saturn.
The Saturn I had was a beta unit so I am not sure if they slightly changed anything on the physical side and I also no longer have it. I am hoping to get a release Saturn in and then I could check this.
@@ModBotArmy Ah I understand elegoo still has not released a guide on fep replacement yet for the saturn (Ie how big a spacer to use)
You didn't say what the specific cause of the problem with the heater or thermistor was that caused the problem. Also, this is why I don't like serial based touch screens as there isn't a direct link to the logic in the firmware.
There was no way of knowing what caused it. I tried to repeat it with no luck and the thermistor as well as heater cartridge seems to be operating normally. I am not going to be using this machine period but that is why I did not disclose the fail point.
@@ModBotArmy the reason why is when you heated the printer then connect it to the computer, the screen will lock up and the temperature sernsor won't work at this time, so it will begin to heat uncontrollably. if you don't heat the extruder to connect them, it will not happen
Something to keep in mind is that a Mosfet driver can fail at any time and if it fails closed then full power will be supplied to the hot end or the bed heater no matter what the control board says it should do. But the drivers do not seen to fail often and there is a 50/50 chance they will fail open and not pass any power to the heaters.
I am also a big fan of home automation. I have a smartthings hub and have my Ender 3 V2 plugged into a smartthings wifi plug that can monitor power usage. I have it monitor that and when it goes above 50 watts for 5 min. i know the printer is printing something. Then when the power drops below 50 watts for 5 min i know the printer is finished. And webcore (a programming language for smartthings) turns off the plug that the printer is connected to. Also have a smoke detector and if it goes off kills the plug as well
Fuck me. I plugged it in 220 instead of 110v .......... The place was full of smoke
:( , did i lost my 3D printer☹️
Happens to me, if your running cura in the background on your PC and plug the USB in whilst a print has started
What machine did this happen on?
Great video! #fullsupport
Surprised you didn't mention spaghetti detective.
I thought of it but I have not used it much. I think I will be visiting it more in the future and making a separate video on it.
This is one of the worst reviewed printers on Amazon.
Unless this company come out and publicly show the issue is corrected. That 3D Printer is Dead to Me. I refuse to endanger my family or my own life. Because a company couldn't check this before shipping out. Now someone could of lost there loved ones, there own life, there home to this! 🤯😡
Just buy a highly regarded brand
@@theshadowman1398 Yes...Good advice. But unfortunately, this 2020....this would happen in 2016. But company still belive the end user is there Engineering Dept or R&D Dept for there failed brand.