The value of analytics like this can not be understated. Even at five years old this provides huge insight in the boat market. I would love an update on this.
The reason around 10 years old “things fall off a cliff” is because that’s the age when major things need to be replaced and generally none of that work will be done and everything will be original in those listings... like most things you get what you pay for
5:20 Could the ten year mark be significant because that's when rigging on a new boat is coming due? Maybe a second rigging depreciation mark isn't visible father down the chart due to the different ages that people chose to get the rigging done the first time. If true, buying a 10 year old boat with fresh rigging would be where the deal is.
One issue to consider when normalizing your data is that boat cost tends to be a function of weight not length... better expressed as the cube of the length... or simply scale against displacement if you know that. Most cruisers would have approx the same ballast/displacement ratio. So data would demonstrate value and luxury. Boats of equal value and equal luxury should have approximately the same ratio of cost/displacement.
Great video. It would be interested to see a video discussing a principle component analysis of vessel features on asking price. That is, to show the relative effect of rig type, location, age, and other features on asking price.
Best to join a sailing club and do some charters. Crew on as many boats as you can. Always have the boat hauled and professionally surveyed if you're serious. Ask for service records.
Nice work! Thank you. As you said, it gives us a few more data points to keep in mind with all other data we should be collecting on our own. Thanks. SK in the UK.
I appreciate that you've crunched through numbers so I don't have to. My takeaways are: Buy a boat more than 10 years old, as prices drop dramatically at that 10 years; buy a 35-38 footer (any bigger would get very difficult to handle, especially alone); and don't buy from a broker or dealer. I'd go to marinas/docks and see what looks abandoned or maybe look at craigslist. Cheers!
Very interesting - your efforts are appreciated - especially by someone who wlenjoys Boat P*rn! 10 yr drop off & rigging (for insurance) are more common than major refit around the southern oceans - so a comparison with 1, w and 3 spreader spars would be interesting (although possibly a lot more work). Mind you great extent of research over a range of great interest - thank you. & Sail on
All good information Thank You..........Do you have any statistics on asking price and actual price received for the boat? eg Owner asking $75K for a specific boat.What was offered and what was accepted?
Fair assesment. 1 year depreciation in a car = 3 years in a sailboat = 8 years depreciation of a house. Keep in mind that A botton job on a 25' sailboat may cost $1500 - $3000 (if you do most work yourself). A 45' sailboat bottom job is not double the price, more closer to 4 times the cost. Linear feet vs cubic volume increase. 2.5 gallons of antifoul paint is just barely enough for a 25 footer. 2.5 gallons maybe enough to cover rudder, keel, & a wee bit of the stern on a 45 footer.
The problem with buying as big as you can afford is that you buy future costs. If the choice is between a 35 ft and a 45ft both in good age and condition, the bigger one is surely going to add a lot of future costs. It’s lime a poor man winning a sports car, he can’t keep it cos he can’t maintain it.
I totally agree. I want a 50'er but am planning around 38-40 for that exact reason. I wanted to do a video on maintenance costs but couldn't find a good source for data.
I also have not found much on anticipated maintenance costs for sailboats - mono or cat hulled. I would guess the issue is the variance in maintenance, the type and quality of build, bad luck and/or if you can do some, most or all the work yourself. I think 10 to 15% of the cost of the boat is a good estimate - having a quality survey done before you buy is key - as rising and motors can cost $7K USD to $20K USD .... the average time of boat ownership is 5 years (read that somewhere). Overall a boat is a depreciating asset and eventually - most hulls/boats will be a write off.
This all depends on owners' abilities. I have a friend that has spent 50,000 renovating his Catalina 30. I also know a guy with an Irwin 42 that has maybe spent 7,000 dollars on it total, but has put 50 times the mileage under the hull. I'll let you guess which one does his own work on his boat.
So I like to go on Sailing Ruby Rose and there take on this. Whatever you have to spend, use 80% on your boat purchase. So if you have 100k, spend 80k on the boat, and leave a 20k fund for the stuff you need to fix or unexpected issues. That seems reasonable. Also, you should be able to predict your monthly cost based on research. Ruby Rose spends about 3k/month. Others as little as 1k. Depends on how you want to live. That all makes sense to me.
Someone already has done a really good one. They have a youtube channel. He's a young bald headed guy with a wife and baby...and a big fluffy white dog. They bought an ex-charter cat a couple years ago and have been sailing and refit. They have a turtle as part of the logo on their hall. Anyone out there that can help with the name? I'll look.
I felt they were different enough to skew the monohull data and would have required their own video or greatly increased the length of this one. Cats are very interesting boats. Leaving them off was just a design choice for the video.
The value of analytics like this can not be understated. Even at five years old this provides huge insight in the boat market. I would love an update on this.
Excellent analysis! Very impressed you were able to gather 17,000 data points.
The reason around 10 years old “things fall off a cliff” is because that’s the age when major things need to be replaced and generally none of that work will be done and everything will be original in those listings... like most things you get what you pay for
Oh wow you did a lotta thinking that I was gonna have to do, good lookin' out!
Super presentation, lots of work and thought went into this. Thanks for posting!
5:20 Could the ten year mark be significant because that's when rigging on a new boat is coming due? Maybe a second rigging depreciation mark isn't visible father down the chart due to the different ages that people chose to get the rigging done the first time. If true, buying a 10 year old boat with fresh rigging would be where the deal is.
Great vid, I love graphs. It was very informative, thank you.
One issue to consider when normalizing your data is that boat cost tends to be a function of weight not length... better expressed as the cube of the length... or simply scale against displacement if you know that. Most cruisers would have approx the same ballast/displacement ratio. So data would demonstrate value and luxury. Boats of equal value and equal luxury should have approximately the same ratio of cost/displacement.
Great update and sound analysis.
Great video. It would be interested to see a video discussing a principle component analysis of vessel features on asking price. That is, to show the relative effect of rig type, location, age, and other features on asking price.
Best to join a sailing club and do some charters. Crew on as many boats as you can. Always have the boat hauled and professionally surveyed if you're serious. Ask for service records.
Sounds like very good advice!
Nice work! Thank you. As you said, it gives us a few more data points to keep in mind with all other data we should be collecting on our own. Thanks. SK in the UK.
I appreciate that you've crunched through numbers so I don't have to. My takeaways are: Buy a boat more than 10 years old, as prices drop dramatically at that 10 years; buy a 35-38 footer (any bigger would get very difficult to handle, especially alone); and don't buy from a broker or dealer. I'd go to marinas/docks and see what looks abandoned or maybe look at craigslist. Cheers!
Great analysis!! Statistics...gotta love em!!
Very interesting - your efforts are appreciated - especially by someone who wlenjoys Boat P*rn! 10 yr drop off & rigging (for insurance) are more common than major refit around the southern oceans - so a comparison with 1, w and 3 spreader spars would be interesting (although possibly a lot more work).
Mind you great extent of research over a range of great interest - thank you.
& Sail on
Nice analysis, Did you push the data scraper to a Github repo?
How can I analyse how yacht prices are being affected by C-19?
I am beginning to see a lot of "price reduced" ads.
Do you have any advice?
I think you answered your own question there sir
All good information Thank You..........Do you have any statistics on asking price and actual price received for the boat? eg Owner asking $75K for a specific boat.What was offered and what was accepted?
thank you for compiling this data and posting this vid. I think its very useful
Dude, your video is absolutely useful and awesome
Fair assesment. 1 year depreciation in a car = 3 years in a sailboat = 8 years depreciation of a house. Keep in mind that A botton job on a 25' sailboat may cost $1500 - $3000 (if you do most work yourself). A 45' sailboat bottom job is not double the price, more closer to 4 times the cost. Linear feet vs cubic volume increase. 2.5 gallons of antifoul paint is just barely enough for a 25 footer. 2.5 gallons maybe enough to cover rudder, keel, & a wee bit of the stern on a 45 footer.
Must useful and helpful research i have seen on this subject.ex 69 albin vega owner.thank yu and namaste
Thanks for the analytical info here. It's very hard to see 5he graph and cursor when the words you are saying appear over the graph.
Asking prices are a bit misleading as here in the UK actual selling prices are mainly about 60%
of the asking price . So it pays to have the haggle.
Wow, would have never expected that much leeway.
Really interesting.
How did you get the bulk raw data?
I would also love to know this. Lots of other ways I'd like to manipulate this data
I wrote a script to grab all the data from one of the big yacht listing websites
I wonder if price/displacement might be more informative than price/length? Would also be interested in maintenance costs wrt length or displacement.
Could be interesting seeing the price/ft on different size boat...
Great info & an excellent video. [smile] I'm sure it is much appreciated by all who see it. I know I did!
I really liked I was wondering the exact thing. Did you input data on options?
The problem with buying as big as you can afford is that you buy future costs. If the choice is between a 35 ft and a 45ft both in good age and condition, the bigger one is surely going to add a lot of future costs.
It’s lime a poor man winning a sports car, he can’t keep it cos he can’t maintain it.
I totally agree. I want a 50'er but am planning around 38-40 for that exact reason. I wanted to do a video on maintenance costs but couldn't find a good source for data.
I also have not found much on anticipated maintenance costs for sailboats - mono or cat hulled.
I would guess the issue is the variance in maintenance, the type and quality of build, bad luck and/or if you can do some, most or all the work yourself.
I think 10 to 15% of the cost of the boat is a good estimate - having a quality survey done before you buy is key - as rising and motors can cost $7K USD to $20K USD .... the average time of boat ownership is 5 years (read that somewhere).
Overall a boat is a depreciating asset and eventually - most hulls/boats will be a write off.
This all depends on owners' abilities. I have a friend that has spent 50,000 renovating his Catalina 30. I also know a guy with an Irwin 42 that has maybe spent 7,000 dollars on it total, but has put 50 times the mileage under the hull. I'll let you guess which one does his own work on his boat.
Yup,I think you are right there too. It boils down to abilities, time and money and which one of these you are most endowed with. ;-)
So I like to go on Sailing Ruby Rose and there take on this. Whatever you have to spend, use 80% on your boat purchase. So if you have 100k, spend 80k on the boat, and leave a 20k fund for the stuff you need to fix or unexpected issues. That seems reasonable. Also, you should be able to predict your monthly cost based on research. Ruby Rose spends about 3k/month. Others as little as 1k. Depends on how you want to live. That all makes sense to me.
Nice job with the stats.
Any idea how long it typically takes to sell a boat? Wife wants to know before we buy so we know how difficult to get out of it...
That's not a question I can answer. I've sold 3. One I donated to charity after 7 months of it not selling and 2 sold in less than a month
Perfect job, thank you.
I hope you adjusted price data for compounding inflation over the years
WHAT?
Great research. Thanks!
Interesting, I would say that all sounds about right.
Very valuable, thanks.
Dang good video
What’s the answer of ‘’how old is too old’’
Great stuff. Thank you.
The asking price means nothing. Only the sale price has meaning.
its a fair assumption to say the two share a high correlation
its a fair assumption to say the two share a high correlation
It would be useful to see statistics on asking price vs. sale price as a function of length.
@michael quigley Make a list of points, mention these, and offer way lower.
absolutely correct
Catamaran please
beautiful
subbed
love to see this broken down for Cats as well
Someone already has done a really good one. They have a youtube channel. He's a young bald headed guy with a wife and baby...and a big fluffy white dog. They bought an ex-charter cat a couple years ago and have been sailing and refit. They have a turtle as part of the logo on their hall. Anyone out there that can help with the name? I'll look.
I found it, Jessica and Ryan Adventures. He did a couple videos on the subject.
What about Catamarans?
I felt they were different enough to skew the monohull data and would have required their own video or greatly increased the length of this one. Cats are very interesting boats. Leaving them off was just a design choice for the video.
Id love to see your same analysis for cats@@CouchCruisers
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Wright, sorry