I like the white eyes when there's a reason to have them. Flash mentioned a good reason not to have them in this video. It builds trust to have eye contact. However, Batman would rather be feared than trusted, so the white eyes are perfect. Plus, they build on the mystery around him while making him harder to identify by hiding his eye color.
RockLegend2 they are cool in comics and in animated stuff but they don't translate well into live action cause unlike the comics and animated stuff the cowl/mask doesn't move along with the face to help show expression and I have seen some cosplayers trying it and it makes then look blind cause like I said it doesn't translate well
+jack crowly (jack305666) Same. I feel like it'd be more realistic in a way. You could probably figure out who that person is if you can see their eye shape and color well enough. Add that with other factors like face shape, body, and even hair (if they show their hair) and your secret identity will probably be revealed after a while. Hope those people aren't close ranged fighters.
I always thought that the superhero white eyes thing came about because back in the day, the artists drew every panel by hand (no fancy computer art tools back then) and they made the eyes white so they wouldn't have to painstakingly make sure the irises were the right shape and looking the right way every single time. Basically a time-saving/corner cutting artistic choice that found its way into the public consciousness.
From a security stand point, I favor concealing masks as even that half exposed face and jaw could be enough for facial recognition to find out oh Batman is Bruce Wayne before Oracle wipes that out from him. As tech seems to get get biometrics from you from across the room I'd have to go with white eyes to kept some kind of retina scan from being done.
+Lazarus Pitts And you'd be right. I don't know why he didn't cover this, but the the white eyes in a lot of cases are the result of lenses over the eyes. The entire Bat family has been shown with this being the case, have several types of lenses, and have specific name for them that I can't think of right now. They basically equalize the light so that when they go from complete dark to a super bright light they aren't blinded. The lenses are a more recent thing though. I don't know exactly how far back it goes but sometime in the early 80s or late 70s is at least when the lenses having a reason is when this came about. So older versions of Batman like the 60s TV show is likely more accurate to the pre-modern age Batman and Robin. This also means that Dick Grayson's Robin only used lenses when he became Nightwing, not when he was Robin and thus is another way to tell Dick and Jason apart while in costume.
I love the white eyes look. I never noticed it but always wondered why the Dark Knight mask looked so weird then when I saw Batfleck's super armor I was a lot happier and realized it was cause of the glowy eyes/white eyes. Too bad it wasn't like that for his regular costume... Same thing for The Vision. Wondered why he looked so weird then realized it was the lack of glowy/white eyes :( Hopefully they start applying this to future costumes like if they give Wolverine one.
+NerdSync :P I actually pulled up a new tab, did a search for Gods in Color, and skimmed the resulting Wikipedia page. My initial response was to the topic at hand (white eyes, etc.), but the Greek art thing lingered in the back of my mind. Interesting stuff!
+NerdSync Hey Scott, thought you might like to know about a slight error: the sculptural examples you used when talking about this, and indeed the concept of these painted marble sculptures themselves, were Roman. The Romans used marble in their sculpture because it was relatively cheap and easy for them to get, but this was not true for the Greeks. Greek statues were almost always made of bronze (and may or may not have been painted, I don't know as much about Greek art).
+Borvoc It was not just statues either, most ancient Greek and Roman temples would be extensively painted and colourful. Temples would have collumns painted red, yellow etc. and Roman arches would usually have coloured inscriptions of gold with coloured backgrounds.
A good in-universe explanation is A: the intimidation factor, B: the additional disguise to their true identity-eye color IS a big identifying mark, and C: to give extra options for how to see, ie night-vision or infrared
It's worth noting that a couple of depictions of Batman actually split the difference, by having both visible eyes, and "white eye". In the Arkham games, Batman's eyes are visible, until you turn on Detective Mode, at which point the eyes turn flat white - suggesting a lens that slips down over the eyes (or which is always present, but normally entirely transparent) to provide this different way of seeing the surroundings. Similarly, in The Dark Knight, Batman's eyes are white when he's using the sonar tech. This, naturally, seems to be a latter-day take on the phenomenon - justifying the appearance with technological tools that make sense for the character to use (much as how the "tights" of many heroes have changed to incorporate state-of-the-art or alien armoured fabrics, or are depicted as extensions of their wearers' powers).
I think I prefer the white eyes because of the mentioned "supernatural" look. Also, because I find it easier to draw, and because I think it would make their fighting movements more difficult to read. I'm not a fighter myself but I have been led to understand that your opponent can read your actions by watching your eye movements. I would like to think that a smart hero wouldn't want to broadcast his or her punches before they are thrown.
It really depends on the character in question. If Deadpool showed his eyes, it would be weird. Batman can pull off both, while Catwoman definitely works better with eyes revealed.
I used to write comics for my friends when I was about 15 or 16 but I really sucked at art, so I had my friend Jay draw it out for me. When we were going through drafts of what the characters could look like, he strongly pushed for white eyes. His reason: they were WAY easier to draw.
No eyes DC, eyes Marvel.... DC pulls it off better in their costume designs. However, I'm not talking about the Spider people, all spider people rock the white eyes cause it IS their costume Also, Deadpool rocks it too.
I like how when the Court of Owls put Batman into a maze until almost driving him insane, he comes out with his cowl broken showing one of his eyes. So he had a "normal" eye and a white one, which in my opinion helped by representing the duality of his mind status at the moment. The same happens to him during Telltale's Batman videogame, but I don't think there was as much meaning into it in that occasion.
Filmmakers are getting better at depicting white eyes in superhero movies, some examples that come to mind are Deadpool and Colossus in the upcoming Deadpool movie and Blackpanther and Spider-Man in captain America civil war. Batman to so extent in the new Batman vs Superman Dawn of justice will sport lit up eyes in his armored batsuit it's not as permanent or at all times but it shows up during the film. I recall a brief part in batman the dark knight were batman receives a gadget by Lucius fox were his eyes become lit up as well. I personally like it when the eyes become white, lit up, or are part of a mask or helmet because it grounds the characters in reality and doesn't need explaining.
The white eyes do play a part in concealing identity. No one knows the real color of the hero's eyes if they can't see them. Also in some cases, it probably just works as either night vision or sunglasses. In Flash's case, it worked maybe like a bug deflector or something that worked like goggles that prevented things from flying into his eyes thus ruining his sight.
I guess it can save time? Otherwise, I don't think that it's easier. Drawing pupils gives you more to work with for showing emotions (think eye rolls, sideways glances, etc.) that are harder to convey with just solid white eyes. There are solutions for this, though. You can get fairly expressive with just white.
oiman01011010 yeah. Thats what i always thought. Bending the laws, you know. Spiderman's mask moving to show face expressions easier in comics. Now its mechanical to explain it in the movies. Batman having white eyes to look cooler and easier to draw. I always thought maybe batman would use it to protect his irises from any cameras to use iris recognition or something like that.
Some manga and anime totally mess the face look with the weirdly positioned pupils... when i was a child i always asked: what the freak is wrong with their eyes???
+Ethan Dannen Yeah, I think it fits with certain characters to give them that "inhuman" look that Falk was going for. It makes Batman more menacing, Green Lantern more otherworldly, etc. But the regular eyes seem more grounded and human.
One of my favorite uses of the white-out eyes is in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle 2012 cartoon. The eyes were visible, until they were being sneaky or serious, when they would go completely whited-out. It's a really cool way to symbolize a serious and mysterious mood around the characters.
I can't say I prefer one over the other. I'd have to say it depends upon the artist and what kind of style or mood they're going for. Yes, white eyes can look cool, but it also distances the character from the viewer, I think. Being able to see the hero's eyes is good for gut-wrenching, heartfelt scenes, so you can better see the character's emotional display. I also think some artists might go with white eyes simply because it's easier to draw!
Hi, Scott - just a quick term update. Most comics artists have adopted the Walt Kelly term "blunked out" as the description for lacking irises/pupils. He used to refer to those times when his characters adopted a Little Orphan Annie look (Harold Gray created the look for all of his characters when the strip debuted in 1924).
I can't vote on this subject, because I think this is completely up to the hero and the mood they are trying to set, the dark and inhuman/superstitious knight or a more human Batman fighting people in the shadows or even a creek god Flash versus the more trusting and relate-able Flash. Its up to the artist and the universe that the characters are in the same way that Batman's costume goes from ultra Gothic surreal to practical depending on the artist.
I love that this led to Greek sculptures. It's always so cool to find out what an artist/writer was inspired by. And I'm glad it caught on because I think it does make them more intimidating. The guards in the Stanford prison experiment were told to wear sunglasses to make it hard for the prisoners to see emotions/humanity. As a side note I don't know if you've seen the latest ninja turtles cartoon but I really like how the artists make it so that when they're just messing around they have pupils but when they're fighting they just have white eyes. I like that balance between both :)
Can't disagree! Seems like they often don't in live action is because of the difficulty of "expression" with having white covers to do it practically. We'll see how Deadpool pulls it off and maybe we'll see more of it in the future?
Great short episode on an often overlooked (pun intended) subject! I personally prefer the white eyes (it helps to hide the hero's secret identity, after all). I have to agree with Scott that the whole movie eye makeup thing always puts me off a bit, too. There was a Batman cover back in the nineties that showed the cowl with lenses over the eyes (one of which was cracked). I don't remember the issue, but it was a plain white cover with the empty cowl and a raven sitting on it. If you play the Arkham games, when you switch to "detective mode" the eyes of the cowl do turn white (kind of like the new costume at the end of the film "Batman Forever") which gives a practical reason for the irises disappearing (because Batman is looking at a heads-up display). Of course, as a near-lifelong wearer of glasses, I can tell you that it wouldn't work in real life; wearing glass or plastic over your eyes during any physically demanding activity inevitably leads to "foggy lenses," and greatly impairs your vision. There is no such thing as fog-proof lenses outside of having some sort of bulky battery-operated fan system in place, which a simple domino mask can't really accommodate.
great vid and series. wish each vid would have been a bit longer but still learnt alot from both history and comic perspectives. good job love this channel
+NerdSync I do love the history of the statues though that is a great interpretation and knowing the phantom artist used it does put alot of credence because he and the shadow were the basis of the looks of a lot of characters. I love the show and you are amazing at making points that others might not think of
My take on it: You know the saying that your eyes are like the windows to your soul? So like, if they have blank white eyes they're kinda expressionless and that makes them look less human...also, since like on Batman the white blank eyes are set on a dark costume, people are drawn to the blank eyes quickly and see the inhumanity in them and yeah...
I like the white eyes. I wonder if liking or disliking the style is related to some of the ideas shared by "Understanding Comics" with less complex artistry makes it easier to imagine the character as yourself or as your personal "ideal". Do normal eyes make it easier to put oneself in their shoes and connect with the character, or do white eyes (with their lack of colored irises which definitely are a key identifying feature people use; even things as official as a USA driver's license lists eye color and hair color.... though hair is kind of weird in comics and especially in anime and is often somewhat 'standardized' for that character... I digress, stopping now.) make it easier to connect with a character? My eyes are that hazel that's never the same color (I was complimented on my bright 'green eyes' and 'blue eyes' on the same day once while later in the mirror they looked dark brown to me...) so... I have no clue if that's a factor. I guess eye color isn't that important to me since my eyes frequently look pretty different color-wise in the mirror so maybe that's why I prefer white eyes. Weird.
I don't think people who see heroes with White eyes will automatically think hmmm..... this could be me... I think that's a bit of a stretch.... I think it looks cool and I think most people prefer it because it does make Super heroes appear more in human in comparison to average humans
That is my take on it, because I draw comics too, and it's a lot easier with no irises, cause you have to remember the original eye color. Too many artist draw the same character, they don't get cheat sheets.
Law19157 Makes sense as well. Especially considering some characters masks are alot closer to the eyes. (Example Batman's Mask is covering even his eyebrows and indents vs Batgirls mask which is more makeshift and looser over the eyes.
I remember in one of the early Spiderman Comics they actually explained why Spiderman had the white eyes on his mask. Within the story, Peter wanted to make sure no one could recognize him by any part of his face, even the eyes. So he found a reflective material cloth, similar to a two-way mirror, where he could see out but no one could see in. It was a smart idea by Stan Lee's part and a very interesting choice to try and work it into the comic.
Yay you and Arris are friends? I have enough room in my heart for both of you guys! I feel sad when i hear some of my fav channels are rivals. Theres enough love in the fandoms for great content by hard working content creators. As long as your heart is there, and you work hard enough... People like me will always give you the respect and attention you deserve. Just dont sell out. It breaks my heart when people do.
Eyes are the window of the soul. Most superheroes are vigilantes and have to operate outside of what is considered legal or moral. What would you do if you didn't have to look someone in the eyes? Maybe hiding their eyes are a way for them to look in the mirror and not have to deal with what they have done. It's a way of separating guilt and shame from the symbol they've become.
Deadpool is one of the only live-action superheroes to actually pull off the white-eye look, he looks inhuman and cartoony but that fits the character. The Vision in the comics is a really weird case, he went from having his eyes being constantly in shadow to having white/yellow eyes, to of course getting normal eyes in live-action
jaime reyes (blue beetle) made a comment at one point saying tht the weirdest thing about meeting batman is that you really can't see his eyes through the mask. so yeah. his mask really does have that white eye-thing going on.
The white eyes means there's a shielding there or it's to let you know how the villains and petty criminals see them. Often scary or a force to be reckoned with. When it's a nice lovable hero, no whites, but the darker more serious ones, definitely whites those eyes.
Another great video. Thanks for the hard work. You drew on history which I love. I find all of this fascinating; especially about the greek statues and the fact that they used to be painted with color which I did not know. Wonderful video.
+Schitting Büll Welcome to my world. Of course I try to counter it with simply accepting that the movie is not intended to be historically accurate. But rather is a reflection of the time it was made. Still sometimes the anachronism gets to me. Especially when they try to be accurate (like when is a documentary.) Also like it comes to all good movies. Our suspension of disbelieve is greater when the movie is good. We wont question stuff if the narrative gabs us. But if the movie faulters then we will pick it a part and find every little fault we can with it.
Schitting Büll Well they say ignorance is bliss. Still I would never trade my life of knowledge for of stupidity. Think of the many beautiful things you would never see if we all where content in living in the dark ages.
Wow, I never knew that Ancient Greek statues where in full color at one time. Being Greek myself Ive always though I knew a lot about Greek Art but it seems I still have some stuff to learn. It is odd that Ive never heard about this before. Ive been to several museums and taken several art classes and that info never came up, very interesting.
I would have said that hiding the iris would make difficult for enemies or authorities to recognize heroes real identity, but as shown on superman, with glasses you can totally change/hide your face
Note The Namekian It also supports Batman's white eyes, because he made a direct reference to them, which supports the entire Bat Family's use of white eyes as well.
+NerdSync If I may also add, in The Flash #42, Zoom punches flash and the white eyes are shown to be lenses. Although, my main question here is, are there any examples from Marvel or Image Comics?
For a comic misconceptions, could you do one on how do so many comics involve New York? I see in avengers and other comic media, that they should be meeting so much, with the popular locations.
That's fascinating about the colored statues, I never thought about that. I spent a lot of time reading about statues like those and admiring them in museums and this is the first time I've heard it brought it up.
Very interesting video! I loved the art history connection to this. Personally I prefer certain heroes such as Batman, Spider-Man with white eyes but then the Flash and Green Lantern look better with pupils.
I always thought that the eyes in masks were for masking identity better, eyes can be very recognizable to certain people and superheroes don’t want to take any chances of recognition
I always thought the white eyes help with hiding the hero’s identity. Even the smallest of details can be a big help, which can be bad for the heroes. Even if it’s the common black eye color, it can still help with narrowing down possible suspects, so the bad guys would know not to target people who do not have black eyes. Also, showing the eyes might even help with figuring out the heroe’s ethnicity or race apart from skin color, like an asian’s slanted eyes, or the eyes have the signs of a genetic defect like albinism, which is a rare genetic disorder.
I like both. it's a personal preference of the artist who is helping to tell a story and convey a particular tone. So the way the character is drawn, the atmosphere of the surroundings, and environment helps with that.
2 little things that didn't fit in anywhere into the video but would be nice to mention: -Most animated comic book shows do have white eyes. -Deadpool has fully white CGI eyes in his upcoming live action movie. Just felt like putting that out there.
another thing about wally west and white eyes is that during the Geoff Johns era (I couldn't find the issue number, the book I have doesn't always show it) wally has to go into a place where murmur's frenzy virus is, and changes the eyes on his suit from visible to white for protection purposes.
i always would have thought it was for the reader's benefit so we can see them. Batman, Black Panther, Spawn many other characters that tend to lurk in the shadows would be really hard to see because of their costume design but you can always tell where batman shows up when you see those white eyes glaring in the distance. It allows the character to emote and not be boring. I am of course aware there are also characters that are in day more often and don't have dark costume designs that still have white eyes but hey i guess there are other reasons but i do bet some of them do include easier to animate and draw quicker and be visible in the dark.
TMNT utilizes it often and not only for combat, but when they are running, are in full ninja mode, and sometimes during their comedy sketches to show confusion. They also use it when the characters are mind controlled. The directors, animators, and other artists working on the TMNT TV show are true masters of their craft.
What I find interesting is how normal the white eyes feel for comics readers, but that is not the case for people outside of comics (or at least superhero comics). White eyes look/feel like the most normal thing in the world to me, and I never give it a second thought. But throughout my life as I've shared my designs, art with folks who are curious about what I work on, but not regular comics readers, they usually all make some comment like "why don't you draw the eyes" "what's wrong with the eyes" - I posted a drawing up at work once, and someone felt compelled to add the iris/pupils to it (thanks). Kind of reminded me of that one panel in Amazing Fantasy #15 where Spidey realizes the crook that shot Ben was the guy he let get away. Someone felt compelled to ad pupils to THAT ONE PANEL. This all is changing, though, with the popularity of the superhero genre in film. We're starting to see it in movies like Deadpool (strangely the did it in Green Lantern and it was kind of off putting in that movie, but Deadpool looks alright. Anyhow, great vid... loved the history.
depending on the costume somtimes see the eyes look scary but this is how i personally view it in spidermans orgin (amazing fantasy 15) they go over Spider-Mans costume explaining that the mask and eyes are made with a special material that works as a double sided mirror alowing him to see outward and others not be able to see in. i always figured most hero's used somthn similar
As someone who draws manga (with all the giant eyeballs that entails) I think the white eye look is really good visual shorthand for characters with more realistically proportioned faces, and it can prevent the eye area from becoming clutteredin distance shots. I've experimented with the style myself, so that's my personal experience.
In an episode of _COSMOS: A Spacetime Oddysey_ in which Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about Lead poisoning related diseases. He then went on to talk about how in the early XX century Lead was everywhere and that the ''Steadfast Tin Soldier'' was a way of promoting the idea that Lead was safe for children. In the video they showcase a lot of mascots of that era and they all had human features and human eyes to which I can only guess is to appeal to human emotion. Most of the mascots or cartoons back then were eerily realistic because Naturalism was the way to go. Humpty Dumpty is one example of looking more human can appeal to different emotions given the context. If you look at the evolution of Bibendum AKA the Michelin Man you can see how because the character is made of tires they added glasses but today it looks eerie to say the least, oh and he was loved by everyone and he smoked cigars too.
Depends on the the superhero's design and how they are approaching it. Using Batman for example, I prefer him with the white eyes in the comic and animated stuff, but I don't mind the ability to see his iris when in live action (or even in the comics/animation). In a way, I think they work as a form of lens that protect his eyes, probably feeds information from computers/radio transmitters in his cowl into the lens, and protect his identity, like they do with Spider-Man. I also don't mind it when they use it for dramatic effect.
I definitely prefer the white look, especially on the page. Deadpool has shown us that we can now get away with it on screen, as well, and it'll be interesting to see how that could influence the industry. Being able to go that route saves for the embarrassing experience that was the ripped off cowl at the conclusion of abatman Returns, where the eye make up had to first be removed in a cut scene, which made Bats looks funny. I think the only way seeing the eyes works is when an eye hole is larger, as it is with cinematic Captain America or Barry's Flash. However, eye "lenses" made more sense with Wally considering wind pressure on the eyes while running at high speeds. You think The Flashes own stock in Visene?
I always took the white eyes thing as special lenses to cover/protect the eyes. I remember an older Batman comic cover that showed his mask hanging from a tree branch with some ravens pecking out the eyes, showing broken glass.
I always assumed they use some kind of contact lenses or semi-transparent material that allowed them to see out but not others to see in aiding in the hiding their secret identities. As for why, always figured it more of a shortcut than a full design choice as many of the characters didn't have irises or pupils. Also, past videos you did mentioned the size of the panels, which probably would make drawing those fine details difficult, especially in the early days of comics.
I always thought they were tinted protective lenses for the characters...
yeah me too man
it kinda makes sense for characters like the Flash to have them
And in the Spider-Man comics, they established that that was what they were.
I think in Injustice they are
I think they are
I like the white eyes when there's a reason to have them. Flash mentioned a good reason not to have them in this video. It builds trust to have eye contact. However, Batman would rather be feared than trusted, so the white eyes are perfect. Plus, they build on the mystery around him while making him harder to identify by hiding his eye color.
RockLegend2 they are cool in comics and in animated stuff but they don't translate well into live action cause unlike the comics and animated stuff the cowl/mask doesn't move along with the face to help show expression and I have seen some cosplayers trying it and it makes then look blind cause like I said it doesn't translate well
But then again he doesn't wear anything in terms of the lower jaw
I think they're just plain cool and us Flash fans have it way easier when Wally has white eyes and Barry doesn't
It really depends on the character. I like it for batman but not the flash.
JLA and JLU Flash had white eyes when wearing the costume, do/did you like that version?
i feel like it fits the flash
simon amorim i love how Daredevil has the unique Red Eyes
The flash should have slightly transparent yellow
Nate West yeah and they managed to get that over to live action
I prefer white eye but it would depend on the hero
I'd say both white and non white eyes as you said depends on the superhero
+jack crowly (jack305666) Same. I feel like it'd be more realistic in a way. You could probably figure out who that person is if you can see their eye shape and color well enough. Add that with other factors like face shape, body, and even hair (if they show their hair) and your secret identity will probably be revealed after a while. Hope those people aren't close ranged fighters.
Well Superman doesn't get noticed.
yeah spiderman
Stripperella looked a lot better with the white eyes I reckon.
I always thought that the superhero white eyes thing came about because back in the day, the artists drew every panel by hand (no fancy computer art tools back then) and they made the eyes white so they wouldn't have to painstakingly make sure the irises were the right shape and looking the right way every single time.
Basically a time-saving/corner cutting artistic choice that found its way into the public consciousness.
I personally thought it was because the printer could mess it up, especially on characters in small panels.
Artists can draw eyes if they can draw entire comics, it’s because a white eye contrasts more sharply against solid black
Awesome explanation! Kind of funny seeing things go full circle with that ancient greek styled Avengers statue at the end of AOU.
Great point! Also, love your videos, man!
ShartimusPrime SHARTIMUS SHARTIMUS SHARTIMUS PRIME!
Didn't expect my favorite youtuber IN THE WORLD to comment here.
From a security stand point, I favor concealing masks as even that half exposed face and jaw could be enough for facial recognition to find out oh Batman is Bruce Wayne before Oracle wipes that out from him. As tech seems to get get biometrics from you from across the room I'd have to go with white eyes to kept some kind of retina scan from being done.
The white eyes are like sun glasses, that's what I always assumed.
Yeah, kinda like the costume Andrew Garfield wore in The Amazing Spider-Man (2012).
+Lazarus Pitts Yep
+Lazarus Pitts And you'd be right. I don't know why he didn't cover this, but the the white eyes in a lot of cases are the result of lenses over the eyes. The entire Bat family has been shown with this being the case, have several types of lenses, and have specific name for them that I can't think of right now. They basically equalize the light so that when they go from complete dark to a super bright light they aren't blinded.
The lenses are a more recent thing though. I don't know exactly how far back it goes but sometime in the early 80s or late 70s is at least when the lenses having a reason is when this came about. So older versions of Batman like the 60s TV show is likely more accurate to the pre-modern age Batman and Robin. This also means that Dick Grayson's Robin only used lenses when he became Nightwing, not when he was Robin and thus is another way to tell Dick and Jason apart while in costume.
white eyes made them look more mysterious and inhuman. Plus it's harder to recognize a person if their real eyes are covered by utter white eyes.
It also masks your movements (or intent of movement) in closed quarters fighting
I love the white eyes look. I never noticed it but always wondered why the Dark Knight mask looked so weird then when I saw Batfleck's super armor I was a lot happier and realized it was cause of the glowy eyes/white eyes. Too bad it wasn't like that for his regular costume...
Same thing for The Vision. Wondered why he looked so weird then realized it was the lack of glowy/white eyes :(
Hopefully they start applying this to future costumes like if they give Wolverine one.
Also, the idea that Greek sculpture was painted is new to me, so I guess I learned something. Thanks.
It was too interesting not to talk about!
+NerdSync :P I actually pulled up a new tab, did a search for Gods in Color, and skimmed the resulting Wikipedia page. My initial response was to the topic at hand (white eyes, etc.), but the Greek art thing lingered in the back of my mind. Interesting stuff!
+NerdSync Thought provoking, Scott.
+NerdSync Hey Scott, thought you might like to know about a slight error: the sculptural examples you used when talking about this, and indeed the concept of these painted marble sculptures themselves, were Roman. The Romans used marble in their sculpture because it was relatively cheap and easy for them to get, but this was not true for the Greeks. Greek statues were almost always made of bronze (and may or may not have been painted, I don't know as much about Greek art).
+Borvoc
It was not just statues either, most ancient Greek and Roman temples would be extensively painted and colourful. Temples would have collumns painted red, yellow etc. and Roman arches would usually have coloured inscriptions of gold with coloured backgrounds.
A good in-universe explanation is A: the intimidation factor, B: the additional disguise to their true identity-eye color IS a big identifying mark, and C: to give extra options for how to see, ie night-vision or infrared
It's worth noting that a couple of depictions of Batman actually split the difference, by having both visible eyes, and "white eye". In the Arkham games, Batman's eyes are visible, until you turn on Detective Mode, at which point the eyes turn flat white - suggesting a lens that slips down over the eyes (or which is always present, but normally entirely transparent) to provide this different way of seeing the surroundings. Similarly, in The Dark Knight, Batman's eyes are white when he's using the sonar tech.
This, naturally, seems to be a latter-day take on the phenomenon - justifying the appearance with technological tools that make sense for the character to use (much as how the "tights" of many heroes have changed to incorporate state-of-the-art or alien armoured fabrics, or are depicted as extensions of their wearers' powers).
I think I prefer the white eyes because of the mentioned "supernatural" look. Also, because I find it easier to draw, and because I think it would make their fighting movements more difficult to read. I'm not a fighter myself but I have been led to understand that your opponent can read your actions by watching your eye movements. I would like to think that a smart hero wouldn't want to broadcast his or her punches before they are thrown.
It really depends on the character in question. If Deadpool showed his eyes, it would be weird. Batman can pull off both, while Catwoman definitely works better with eyes revealed.
I used to write comics for my friends when I was about 15 or 16 but I really sucked at art, so I had my friend Jay draw it out for me. When we were going through drafts of what the characters could look like, he strongly pushed for white eyes. His reason: they were WAY easier to draw.
I like the white eyes. Especially on Batman.
No eyes DC, eyes Marvel.... DC pulls it off better in their costume designs.
However, I'm not talking about the Spider people, all spider people rock the white eyes cause it IS their costume
Also, Deadpool rocks it too.
+Csfranklin Deadpool's eyes were originally white all the time. Even without the mask.
+AlphaProto That's Youngblood's disease. You-know-who created him and... well, now Deadpool has pupils, so that's that.
+Csfranklin Which makes his costume for the movie extra special.
+Csfranklin DC has better costume designs for their characters, marvel has better names for their characters.
Mr Simmons I actually prefer DC names xD
I always figured it was to prevent the eyes from blending in with the mask and being hard to properly make out when not shown in close-up.
shut up
@@antighaVision This is just sad.
The4thSnake making fun of BLM onTwitter is sad can't imagine anyone doing that...oh wait🤭
@@antighaVision I explained that was a misunderstanding already.
I like how when the Court of Owls put Batman into a maze until almost driving him insane, he comes out with his cowl broken showing one of his eyes. So he had a "normal" eye and a white one, which in my opinion helped by representing the duality of his mind status at the moment.
The same happens to him during Telltale's Batman videogame, but I don't think there was as much meaning into it in that occasion.
Remy Blas It also happened in Batman Rebirth All Star Batman Series and I think Endgame.
Filmmakers are getting better at depicting white eyes in superhero movies, some examples that come to mind are Deadpool and Colossus in the upcoming Deadpool movie and Blackpanther and Spider-Man in captain America civil war. Batman to so extent in the new Batman vs Superman Dawn of justice will sport lit up eyes in his armored batsuit it's not as permanent or at all times but it shows up during the film. I recall a brief part in batman the dark knight were batman receives a gadget by Lucius fox were his eyes become lit up as well. I personally like it when the eyes become white, lit up, or are part of a mask or helmet because it grounds the characters in reality and doesn't need explaining.
I like white eyes they just look so awesome and menacing
Cole Soderstrom same
The white eyes do play a part in concealing identity. No one knows the real color of the hero's eyes if they can't see them. Also in some cases, it probably just works as either night vision or sunglasses. In Flash's case, it worked maybe like a bug deflector or something that worked like goggles that prevented things from flying into his eyes thus ruining his sight.
yet flash barely ever had white eyes.
lets face it, the main reason they're drawn without pupils is because its easier
+oiman01011010 +1 like by a comic artist :P
And not only easier to draw, but also they can draw better and easier expressions.
I guess it can save time? Otherwise, I don't think that it's easier. Drawing pupils gives you more to work with for showing emotions (think eye rolls, sideways glances, etc.) that are harder to convey with just solid white eyes. There are solutions for this, though. You can get fairly expressive with just white.
oiman01011010 yeah. Thats what i always thought. Bending the laws, you know. Spiderman's mask moving to show face expressions easier in comics. Now its mechanical to explain it in the movies. Batman having white eyes to look cooler and easier to draw. I always thought maybe batman would use it to protect his irises from any cameras to use iris recognition or something like that.
Some manga and anime totally mess the face look with the weirdly positioned pupils... when i was a child i always asked: what the freak is wrong with their eyes???
It's interesting to me that the white eyes come from greek/roman statues, as superheroes today are often referred to as the new pantheon.
I like white eyes with some characters like batman and green lantern, others like the flash just don't feel right
+Ethan Dannen Yeah, I think it fits with certain characters to give them that "inhuman" look that Falk was going for. It makes Batman more menacing, Green Lantern more otherworldly, etc. But the regular eyes seem more grounded and human.
+NerdSync what about spidey I wonder thou
One of my favorite uses of the white-out eyes is in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle 2012 cartoon. The eyes were visible, until they were being sneaky or serious, when they would go completely whited-out. It's a really cool way to symbolize a serious and mysterious mood around the characters.
I like The Incredibles kind of design, which shows the eyes but not the skin around them, so they look more human but don't look so weird.
This channel is criminally underrated. YOU DESERVE 2 million subs!
I can't say I prefer one over the other. I'd have to say it depends upon the artist and what kind of style or mood they're going for. Yes, white eyes can look cool, but it also distances the character from the viewer, I think. Being able to see the hero's eyes is good for gut-wrenching, heartfelt scenes, so you can better see the character's emotional display. I also think some artists might go with white eyes simply because it's easier to draw!
Hi, Scott - just a quick term update. Most comics artists have adopted the Walt Kelly term "blunked out" as the description for lacking irises/pupils. He used to refer to those times when his characters adopted a Little Orphan Annie look (Harold Gray created the look for all of his characters when the strip debuted in 1924).
I can't vote on this subject, because I think this is completely up to the hero and the mood they are trying to set, the dark and inhuman/superstitious knight or a more human Batman fighting people in the shadows or even a creek god Flash versus the more trusting and relate-able Flash. Its up to the artist and the universe that the characters are in the same way that Batman's costume goes from ultra Gothic surreal to practical depending on the artist.
I love that this led to Greek sculptures. It's always so cool to find out what an artist/writer was inspired by. And I'm glad it caught on because I think it does make them more intimidating. The guards in the Stanford prison experiment were told to wear sunglasses to make it hard for the prisoners to see emotions/humanity. As a side note I don't know if you've seen the latest ninja turtles cartoon but I really like how the artists make it so that when they're just messing around they have pupils but when they're fighting they just have white eyes. I like that balance between both :)
Can't disagree! Seems like they often don't in live action is because of the difficulty of "expression" with having white covers to do it practically. We'll see how Deadpool pulls it off and maybe we'll see more of it in the future?
So far the trailers make it look good. I'd love to see that carried over to Batfleck, but I can't imagine they will.
***** well the armor suit has it...?
Great short episode on an often overlooked (pun intended) subject!
I personally prefer the white eyes (it helps to hide the hero's secret identity, after all). I have to agree with Scott that the whole movie eye makeup thing always puts me off a bit, too.
There was a Batman cover back in the nineties that showed the cowl with lenses over the eyes (one of which was cracked). I don't remember the issue, but it was a plain white cover with the empty cowl and a raven sitting on it. If you play the Arkham games, when you switch to "detective mode" the eyes of the cowl do turn white (kind of like the new costume at the end of the film "Batman Forever") which gives a practical reason for the irises disappearing (because Batman is looking at a heads-up display).
Of course, as a near-lifelong wearer of glasses, I can tell you that it wouldn't work in real life; wearing glass or plastic over your eyes during any physically demanding activity inevitably leads to "foggy lenses," and greatly impairs your vision. There is no such thing as fog-proof lenses outside of having some sort of bulky battery-operated fan system in place, which a simple domino mask can't really accommodate.
at 5:10 both pictures are with white eyes :P
+Auram - Comics and Stuff! I noticed this when it was uploaded, but I figured it wouldn't matter that much. Apparently I was wrong. Haha
Love EVERY mention of the Phantom. Give him his credit!!!
+Joshua Brown Always!!!
I love the white eyes especially when the hero is shown in the dark
great vid and series. wish each vid would have been a bit longer but still learnt alot from both history and comic perspectives. good job love this channel
artist view, as my thumbnail shows, white eyes are easier to draw over and over in each comic than iris'
+Hunter Clark I suppose so, but it would likely only be significantly more work in the extreme close-up shots to draw regular eyes.
+Hunter Clark That's the Todd McFarland school of thought.
+NerdSync well the standard began years ago when even on farther away faces drawing the white made it easier with medium being used
+NerdSync I do love the history of the statues though that is a great interpretation and knowing the phantom artist used it does put alot of credence because he and the shadow were the basis of the looks of a lot of characters. I love the show and you are amazing at making points that others might not think of
My take on it:
You know the saying that your eyes are like the windows to your soul? So like, if they have blank white eyes they're kinda expressionless and that makes them look less human...also, since like on Batman the white blank eyes are set on a dark costume, people are drawn to the blank eyes quickly and see the inhumanity in them and yeah...
I like the white eyes. I wonder if liking or disliking the style is related to some of the ideas shared by "Understanding Comics" with less complex artistry makes it easier to imagine the character as yourself or as your personal "ideal". Do normal eyes make it easier to put oneself in their shoes and connect with the character, or do white eyes (with their lack of colored irises which definitely are a key identifying feature people use; even things as official as a USA driver's license lists eye color and hair color.... though hair is kind of weird in comics and especially in anime and is often somewhat 'standardized' for that character... I digress, stopping now.) make it easier to connect with a character? My eyes are that hazel that's never the same color (I was complimented on my bright 'green eyes' and 'blue eyes' on the same day once while later in the mirror they looked dark brown to me...) so... I have no clue if that's a factor. I guess eye color isn't that important to me since my eyes frequently look pretty different color-wise in the mirror so maybe that's why I prefer white eyes. Weird.
Not weird. A very interesting thought!!! - Nali
I don't think people who see heroes with White eyes will automatically think hmmm..... this could be me... I think that's a bit of a stretch.... I think it looks cool and I think most people prefer it because it does make Super heroes appear more in human in comparison to average humans
to long
I like it too. im making a comic book and i give the heroes white eyes when they're suited
True
I loved that Nolan found a cool way to incorporate the white eyes in TDK.
I think animators do white eyes because it's easier to draw than detailed regular eyes
That does make sense.
And it cuts down on a bit of ink in the process and therefore cheaper.
That is my take on it, because I draw comics too, and it's a lot easier with no irises, cause you have to remember the original eye color. Too many artist draw the same character, they don't get cheat sheets.
Law19157 Makes sense as well. Especially considering some characters masks are alot closer to the eyes. (Example Batman's Mask is covering even his eyebrows and indents vs Batgirls mask which is more makeshift and looser over the eyes.
what comics? where can one read them?
Love the realistic artwork by Alex Ross. Absolutely stunning.
They're doing it with Deadpool for the new movie this year.
Very interesting, I really enjoyed this 4 part series learned a ton Scott, keep up the great work!
At least Spider-Man has an in series explanation.
*****
His eyes are covered by one way mirrors.
TickedOff Priest Mirrors? I thought some of his were mesh knitting over the eyes.
I don't think it was originally mirrors, but they were 1-way pieces of plastic essentially.
I remember in one of the early Spiderman Comics they actually explained why Spiderman had the white eyes on his mask.
Within the story, Peter wanted to make sure no one could recognize him by any part of his face, even the eyes. So he found a reflective material cloth, similar to a two-way mirror, where he could see out but no one could see in. It was a smart idea by Stan Lee's part and a very interesting choice to try and work it into the comic.
I always thought they were part of the mask
I like how they use storm's eyes to illustrate emotion or operating her powers but often otherwise you see them normal
White eyes. It adds to the air they put on when taking their superhero persona.
Yay you and Arris are friends? I have enough room in my heart for both of you guys! I feel sad when i hear some of my fav channels are rivals. Theres enough love in the fandoms for great content by hard working content creators. As long as your heart is there, and you work hard enough... People like me will always give you the respect and attention you deserve. Just dont sell out. It breaks my heart when people do.
White eyes-that way, it's harder to tell who's under that mask.
Amazing video as always and great information! Thanks for making these videos for all of us! Have a happy new year :)
Eyes are the window of the soul. Most superheroes are vigilantes and have to operate outside of what is considered legal or moral. What would you do if you didn't have to look someone in the eyes? Maybe hiding their eyes are a way for them to look in the mirror and not have to deal with what they have done. It's a way of separating guilt and shame from the symbol they've become.
Deadpool is one of the only live-action superheroes to actually pull off the white-eye look, he looks inhuman and cartoony but that fits the character. The Vision in the comics is a really weird case, he went from having his eyes being constantly in shadow to having white/yellow eyes, to of course getting normal eyes in live-action
So... not because of circus performers? What are the odds?
jaime reyes (blue beetle) made a comment at one point saying tht the weirdest thing about meeting batman is that you really can't see his eyes through the mask. so yeah. his mask really does have that white eye-thing going on.
The white eyes means there's a shielding there or it's to let you know how the villains and petty criminals see them. Often scary or a force to be reckoned with.
When it's a nice lovable hero, no whites, but the darker more serious ones, definitely whites those eyes.
Another great video. Thanks for the hard work. You drew on history which I love. I find all of this fascinating; especially about the greek statues and the fact that they used to be painted with color which I did not know. Wonderful video.
Now I'm going to cringe anytime I see a movie based in Ancient Greece or Rome with plain marble statues... Thanks a lot XD
+Schitting Büll Welcome to my world. Of course I try to counter it with simply accepting that the movie is not intended to be historically accurate. But rather is a reflection of the time it was made. Still sometimes the anachronism gets to me. Especially when they try to be accurate (like when is a documentary.)
Also like it comes to all good movies. Our suspension of disbelieve is greater when the movie is good. We wont question stuff if the narrative gabs us. But if the movie faulters then we will pick it a part and find every little fault we can with it.
Isn't being informed fun...
Schitting Büll
Well they say ignorance is bliss. Still I would never trade my life of knowledge for of stupidity. Think of the many beautiful things you would never see if we all where content in living in the dark ages.
Cythil Amen brotha
Now you can see how easily things are manipulated by men and their stubborn ideals throughout history.
The Phantom! The Ghost Who Walks still stomping through our modern myths! love it
I prefer white eyes, mostly because I prefer artistic design over realism.
+CurtisAlfeld Same here. That's why I love old comic book costumes. I hated it when we entered the age of the New X-Men with their leather uniforms.
Wow, I never knew that Ancient Greek statues where in full color at one time. Being Greek myself Ive always though I knew a lot about Greek Art but it seems I still have some stuff to learn. It is odd that Ive never heard about this before. Ive been to several museums and taken several art classes and that info never came up, very interesting.
Batman's white eyes are just mask lenses.
I would have said that hiding the iris would make difficult for enemies or authorities to recognize heroes real identity, but as shown on superman, with glasses you can totally change/hide your face
SCOTT SENPAI!!!
Yes, my child?
The evidence used only supports Flash's white eyes! Are there any other references to it?
Note The Namekian It also supports Batman's white eyes, because he made a direct reference to them, which supports the entire Bat Family's use of white eyes as well.
+NerdSync If I may also add, in The Flash #42, Zoom punches flash and the white eyes are shown to be lenses. Although, my main question here is, are there any examples from Marvel or Image Comics?
Not off the top of my head, but that's a question I encourage you to research for yourself!
For a comic misconceptions, could you do one on how do so many comics involve New York? I see in avengers and other comic media, that they should be meeting so much, with the popular locations.
It's just easier to draw them with white eyes?
That's fascinating about the colored statues, I never thought about that. I spent a lot of time reading about statues like those and admiring them in museums and this is the first time I've heard it brought it up.
Yeah, it was mind-blowing for me to learn! I had never given it a thought before.
I've been waiting for this part of this series! Great video and as far as eyes or white eyes I like both.
Very interesting video! I loved the art history connection to this. Personally I prefer certain heroes such as Batman, Spider-Man with white eyes but then the Flash and Green Lantern look better with pupils.
I always thought that the eyes in masks were for masking identity better, eyes can be very recognizable to certain people and superheroes don’t want to take any chances of recognition
I like how was made for the ninj turtles, they have eyes when they are just chilling around but when they got serious into a fight they got white eyes
i love how in arkham knight they actually partly made his eyes white, there were lenses that made his eyes very opaque
I always thought the white eyes help with hiding the hero’s identity. Even the smallest of details can be a big help, which can be bad for the heroes. Even if it’s the common black eye color, it can still help with narrowing down possible suspects, so the bad guys would know not to target people who do not have black eyes. Also, showing the eyes might even help with figuring out the heroe’s ethnicity or race apart from skin color, like an asian’s slanted eyes, or the eyes have the signs of a genetic defect like albinism, which is a rare genetic disorder.
I like both. it's a personal preference of the artist who is helping to tell a story and convey a particular tone. So the way the character is drawn, the atmosphere of the surroundings, and environment helps with that.
2 little things that didn't fit in anywhere into the video but would be nice to mention:
-Most animated comic book shows do have white eyes.
-Deadpool has fully white CGI eyes in his upcoming live action movie.
Just felt like putting that out there.
really interesting and wellmade series. congratulations :D
I just discovered your channel and I love it!
another thing about wally west and white eyes is that during the Geoff Johns era (I couldn't find the issue number, the book I have doesn't always show it) wally has to go into a place where murmur's frenzy virus is, and changes the eyes on his suit from visible to white for protection purposes.
I just like the simple "lens" explanation.
I don't know why I haven't subscribed to this channel yet. I always enjoy these videos...
i always would have thought it was for the reader's benefit so we can see them. Batman, Black Panther, Spawn many other characters that tend to lurk in the shadows would be really hard to see because of their costume design but you can always tell where batman shows up when you see those white eyes glaring in the distance. It allows the character to emote and not be boring. I am of course aware there are also characters that are in day more often and don't have dark costume designs that still have white eyes but hey i guess there are other reasons but i do bet some of them do include easier to animate and draw quicker and be visible in the dark.
TMNT utilizes it often and not only for combat, but when they are running, are in full ninja mode, and sometimes during their comedy sketches to show confusion. They also use it when the characters are mind controlled. The directors, animators, and other artists working on the TMNT TV show are true masters of their craft.
What I find interesting is how normal the white eyes feel for comics readers, but that is not the case for people outside of comics (or at least superhero comics). White eyes look/feel like the most normal thing in the world to me, and I never give it a second thought. But throughout my life as I've shared my designs, art with folks who are curious about what I work on, but not regular comics readers, they usually all make some comment like "why don't you draw the eyes" "what's wrong with the eyes" - I posted a drawing up at work once, and someone felt compelled to add the iris/pupils to it (thanks). Kind of reminded me of that one panel in Amazing Fantasy #15 where Spidey realizes the crook that shot Ben was the guy he let get away. Someone felt compelled to ad pupils to THAT ONE PANEL. This all is changing, though, with the popularity of the superhero genre in film. We're starting to see it in movies like Deadpool (strangely the did it in Green Lantern and it was kind of off putting in that movie, but Deadpool looks alright. Anyhow, great vid... loved the history.
YES!!!! Finally, the Phantom gets a mention, since he was the first masked hero with white eyes.
depending on the costume somtimes see the eyes look scary but this is how i personally view it in spidermans orgin (amazing fantasy 15) they go over Spider-Mans costume explaining that the mask and eyes are made with a special material that works as a double sided mirror alowing him to see outward and others not be able to see in. i always figured most hero's used somthn similar
As someone who draws manga (with all the giant eyeballs that entails) I think the white eye look is really good visual shorthand for characters with more realistically proportioned faces, and it can prevent the eye area from becoming clutteredin distance shots. I've experimented with the style myself, so that's my personal experience.
Hey! This is what I was hoping for after ep. 3!
I thought it was some kind of eye protector, like glass or a mesh fabric, that come included into the mask.
The opening of this video is retroactively so funny with Patman 2022 putting on eyepaint in-universe.
I’m pretty sure it’s part of the mask like Deadpool because in a Justice League episode flash pulls off his mask and the eyes stretch with the mask
In an episode of _COSMOS: A Spacetime Oddysey_ in which Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about Lead poisoning related diseases. He then went on to talk about how in the early XX century Lead was everywhere and that the ''Steadfast Tin Soldier'' was a way of promoting the idea that Lead was safe for children. In the video they showcase a lot of mascots of that era and they all had human features and human eyes to which I can only guess is to appeal to human emotion. Most of the mascots or cartoons back then were eerily realistic because Naturalism was the way to go. Humpty Dumpty is one example of looking more human can appeal to different emotions given the context. If you look at the evolution of Bibendum AKA the Michelin Man you can see how because the character is made of tires they added glasses but today it looks eerie to say the least, oh and he was loved by everyone and he smoked cigars too.
Even from Avengers 1 to Winter Soldier.. Caps costume has gotten so much better!
I always thought it was just a way for early comic artists to get drawings done quicker, so they didn't have to spent time drawing irises
Depends on the the superhero's design and how they are approaching it. Using Batman for example, I prefer him with the white eyes in the comic and animated stuff, but I don't mind the ability to see his iris when in live action (or even in the comics/animation). In a way, I think they work as a form of lens that protect his eyes, probably feeds information from computers/radio transmitters in his cowl into the lens, and protect his identity, like they do with Spider-Man.
I also don't mind it when they use it for dramatic effect.
I definitely prefer the white look, especially on the page. Deadpool has shown us that we can now get away with it on screen, as well, and it'll be interesting to see how that could influence the industry. Being able to go that route saves for the embarrassing experience that was the ripped off cowl at the conclusion of abatman Returns, where the eye make up had to first be removed in a cut scene, which made Bats looks funny. I think the only way seeing the eyes works is when an eye hole is larger, as it is with cinematic Captain America or Barry's Flash. However, eye "lenses" made more sense with Wally considering wind pressure on the eyes while running at high speeds. You think The Flashes own stock in Visene?
I always took the white eyes thing as special lenses to cover/protect the eyes. I remember an older Batman comic cover that showed his mask hanging from a tree branch with some ravens pecking out the eyes, showing broken glass.
I always assumed they use some kind of contact lenses or semi-transparent material that allowed them to see out but not others to see in aiding in the hiding their secret identities. As for why, always figured it more of a shortcut than a full design choice as many of the characters didn't have irises or pupils. Also, past videos you did mentioned the size of the panels, which probably would make drawing those fine details difficult, especially in the early days of comics.