But Prime Continuity is not Classic Continuity. In the Kelvin timeline JJ uses slight of hand to imply the Prime timeline is the timeline the audience knows spans TOS to ENT. However JJ did not have the licence to use Classic assets at that time. Much in the same way the MCU cannot things from the comics relating to Spider-Man unless they change things. MCU Fisk being stronger than his TV counterpart for example.
Man this was awesome. A HUGE improvement over what the last season had. It was thrilling to see STO designs utilised, and it really shows that they listened to genuinely passionate fans. Story-wise, I’ll await the rest of the series cautiously optimistic for what is to come but I am far more interested in where our main characters are in the 25th Century. Time travel has been used to great effect before but it does feel as though they are avoiding a direct continuation of the 90s Show Trio here. Fingers crossed for further continuations of the Stargazer and La Sirena stories.
It had nothing to do with listening to the fans. The problem with the fleet last season was time. The fleet was added to the show last minute, they had a month to design, build and render the scene. Had the fleet scene been planned there from the start of the series, we probably would have had more designs in it.
exactly. this is series we should have gotten last season. Chabon is a talented writer but last season was a damn mess. im hoping this season is more cohesive, makes sense, and has a decent conclusion
@@gabelogan5877 Yeahhh... that first season was a mess narratively speaking. Although I'm a little concerned about this one too, started off well but if this is just an entire season of time travel 'we need to fix the timeline... again' stuff I'm not sure how much I'm going to like it. I find this trope has been done to death in Trek and I'm even more skeptical of it as the basis for a season long arc.
The Ross Class starship actually comes from an Actual Play livestream show called Clear Skies. The U.S.S. Ross was conceived as a one-of-a-kind prototype variant of the Galaxy Class, named after Mary G. Ross. The folks from Clear Skies collaborated with the team at Star Trek Online to design the ship, which they later added into the game. When Star Trek Online was approached by the production team for Star Trek Picard to diversify the Starfleet ships in Season 2, the Ross Class was one of the designs they liked, and so officially canonized a fan-created ship! The Clear Skies cast lost their minds when they found out: ruclips.net/video/aQ0t0GOMoV4/видео.html
Ditto with the battlecruiser designation. That just means it has cruiser commands, spefically "phasers full power" and "over here! look at me! shoot me, not these other guys that are totally going to be shooting at you", and the capability to mount dual cannons in addition to beam arrays and banks.
Thank you! The muscle twitch trigger to shunt anything a fan does not like into a "parallel reality" is why Im usually iffy about watching any Trek analysis videos on tech.
A few things, that Excelsior is actually an Obena class. Which was first seen in Lower Decks as the USS Archimedes, with Captain Sonya Gomez. There are some signs Lower Decks is not some alternate reality. Just a different presentation of this one. The Stargazer is not the class ship. It is a Sagan Class.
@@anidiot2284 The Admiral mentioned that the remaining members of the Ironien species could be responsable for creating the black hole phenomena in Disco season 4
Yeah, it kept sto kept the prime universe alive during the period when it looked like CBS may have given up on it, and possibly convinced them that the prime universe still had a large fanbase
Given the existence of the Verity, I think this may actually happen. I wouldn’t hold my breath, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it showed up as part of a final battle or something.
My theory on Riker’s fleet is that it was a quick reaction force. A bunch of ships built up on the lessons learned from the defiant class. Kept minimally crewed and ready to respond shortly to something like a trans warp conduit opening in the Sol system or an admiral drawing the ire of the super tal shiar.
that was my thought as well, a fleet that could work great for a bluff or inferior numbers...but if they had to fight something on par with them then the cracks would show.
Or, even more likely, breakthroughs in holoprojection technology has allowed ships to project itself into nearby areas thus confusing the enemy. That's my headcanon at least
@@gups4963 assuming that they are of all the same class, you would think it would be a uber-secret fleet only dispatched as a black ops mission like section 31. And I'm pretty sure she isn't actually an admiral but merely a commodore(ie higher than captain but not real admiral) so thecnivally she wouldn't yet know about
A rapid response fleet makes a lot of sense. Whether Borg attack, an incident like the Prometheus, or any number of wild and wacky threats over the years, Starfleet has time and again been caught with its pants down, relying on the skill and good luck of ships that weren't designed for such things to paper up the cracks.
The Excelsior quickly became Starfleet’s version of the B-52. Repeatedly refitted because it has a niche role it’s still fit for and it’s cheaper than a brand new frame.
You'd be surprised how realistic that is. Old ships can continue serving far longer than you'd think. The first British warship called Sovereign of the Seas lasted many decades, the reigns of several monarchs and through numerous wars, and that thing was made of wood. The Queen Elizabeth-class battleships were built before WW1, yet were still kicking butt as frontline battleships in WW2. Modern American supercarriers can last fifty years or more. These things are built to last.
Tbh, looking at its size compared to the rest I actually think it's the Obena class from Lower Decks🤔 Edit: it is an (new) Excelsior II class Starship 🤷
Thanks to Reddit user Th3ChosenFew for identifying the Reliant Class, that one stumped me. Additionally, since this video was edited, additional information has revealed claiming that what I call the “Stargazer Class” is actually the Sagan Class. Given the USS Stargazer was the lead ship of the class, it’s possible Starfleet has broken with tradition here. On top of that, I was wrong about the "Excelsior" being the original NCC-2000, much to my embarrassment. It looks like a new class designated the Excelsior-II. (Not the Obena)
Might be that the USS Sagan had issues and commissioned after the new USS Stargazer. Shipyard delays,accidents,or numerous other things might have caused it.
@@subraxas STO ship classification is by capability. Miracle Worker vessels are defined by being designed for use with bridge officers that have the Miracle Worker Specialization, namely a command seat of that Specialization.
You say copy and paste , ship . But you could say tactical fleet. And riker states that they are toughest, strongest. So why not pull all of them together to make a point , basically I have a 1000 stones to throw
Referring to Lower Decks as an alternative reality/timeline is really really confusing, especially when it’s not, and the cinematic/Kelvin timeline is the main alternate reality ever referred to in regards to visuals.
yeah i see people do this from time to time and its just silly. its 100% maincanon even if its a silly cartoon. its still a lot more loyal to the shows of the past then any other show currently in production (having said that.. Picard season 2 starts off very very good. )
I think that Lower Decks is better thought of as an alternate lens through which the prime timeline is viewed - a more comedic lens, but still a valid one (and Lower Decks absolutely drops the comedy when the moment calls for it - the second half of S2E10 only has laughs in the final minutes, and those laughs are brought to an abrupt end after SPOILER happens).
I like to think that the fleet we saw at the end of season 1 is a "fast response" fleet and the ships are successors to the Defiant, heavily armed escort vessels designed to respond with force quickly. But the day to day operations and patrols are done by the ships and structures we're more familiar with. It makes sense to me, as the Defiant was originally supposed to be. A fast response fleet of that size would have helped immeasurably in the Borg inscurions and Dominion war.
Sooo, what you are saying it that Starfleet is now so huge they can station a 'fast response' fleet of a hundred ships that all look the same in every sector of the Federation? I mean for them to respond so fast, literally under 24 hours after being warned of the threat, to one particular planet that has to be the case. Rather than what we see in TNG where it takes days to summon ships to form a fleet to fight off a Borg incursion and even then they only gather a dozen or so diverse ships.
I just assumed it was all parked at one place relatively close until they got past the OSHA check and Riker just commendeered them for his emergency fleet.
The USS Ross is actually named for Mary G. Ross, a native american who became the first native american female engineer, the first female engineer at Lockheed, and played a part in the early history of earth spaceflight
I despaired during Season 1's finale that Starfleet had decided to run with mono-class fleet. Kind of ruined the appeal for me. But seeing this image makes me now think that perhaps the fleet Riker brought together was constructed SOLELY for combat, and that it probably sits around the Sol system on standby until needed.
Yeah, it makes sense for the Federation to have a ginormous battle fleet on standby. It would indicate that the Federation learned its lesson after the first two Borg attacks and the Breen attack. It still doesn't explain the homogeneity of the fleet (where are the scouts, the tenders, the big heavy hitters, the smaller Defiant-style attack ships?), but it's as good an explanation as any.
Also a fleet of the same or similar ships can salvage parts off of ships that are too damaged to continue, reducing the need to cary as many spare parts or return to starbase for repairs.
I have the theory that the excelsior is not NCC-2000 but another ship that bears the same name. Either way it's nice to see other classes and it's good to know that the akira and sovereign classes are still serving the fleet.
Just want to clarify, I wasn't saying this new excelsior was a sovereign class. It just looks like there might have been some in that fleet which is nice to see
Just take the events as depicted with a grain of salt, because it is stylized. I have a friend who hates on it because he decided that all the characters must be genetic augments. He thinks their physical feats are not possible otherwise and it undermines Bshir's character.
1:07 - 1:40 - Just in case no one has pointed it out yet but what you just covered was in fact the *Excelsior II* class. Yea, for some reason they've decided to keep the Excelsior well into the 25th century by launching a whole new class of them!
It doesn’t have the right nacelles or pylons though, and it’s literally the OG USS Excelsior - I think it’s just revived similar refits, but you never know.
If I'm not mistaken lower decks is just straight cannon like they've said that before and I haven't seen anything that's greatly cannon breaking for it to be impossible
Except, maybe, Q fucking with the LD crew on multiple occasions. Or the stone that called Armus. And the whole Black Mountain thing... (Honestly, I take it as canon, from shortly after the TNG movies)
The Excelsior was further explained by Dave Blass (PIC production designer) on Twitter to be the "U.S.S. Excelsior NCC-42037". An Excelsior II class starship. Even on screen it is not a stock Excelsior. there are differences. the secondary hull is more pointy towards the bottom, the saucer is different and the nacelles are much higher
I didn't watch the Picard show, and I'm not heavily invested in it, but I'm at least partially convinced that the vast majority of the ships in Riker's fleet of cookie-cutter ships were holographic. Weather they were a form of EW bluff designed to make the Romulan sensors think there were more ships than there were or they were fully combat-capable holo-ships generated like the holographic armor seen in the last episode of Voyager, I'm not sure, but either is a more interesting answer than simply that many of the same class of ship in one fleet.
Exactly what I was thinking. We've seen stuff like this before, it's not implausible that Starfleet decided it could be used as a sort of advanced decoy screen in battle.
That'd be a very neat trick indeed. Doubly so given that Picard used that exact same tactic just before Starfleet arrived, showing how much he and Riker affected each other during all those years of service, enough that they independently used identical tactics.
I imagine the Sovereign actually costs less to make than a Galaxy. It has less empty space. In space, ever square millimeter will cost all that more to heat and air and keep from being exposed to vacuum. I can easily see if being like the Excelsior, an excellent design that can last over a hundred years, though it seems that the Obenna is the true Excelsior successor.
Nah. In Trek, much like real life, the 'expensive' bit is all the advanced technology and specialised engineering. The spaceframe would be relatively easy and quick to build; the real bugger would be fitting out. Heating and aerating large spaces is trivial with Trek tech, unlike real spaceships...and honestly, even then, it's not that taxing. The Sovereigns are a generation more advanced than the Galaxies, so they would've been much more expensive to build initially. Beyond that, it's a question of which class is more easily refitted with the latest technology and can stay relevant fifty or a hundred years later. That's almost certainly why the Excelsiors remained in front-line service long after the newer Ambassador-class was retired.
Compared to the power involved in Warp travel, shields, structural integrity fields, sensors, artificial gravity, and weapons, the additional energy used for climate control of that extra space is virtually nothing. So, no, it doesn't factor into the operational cost difference between a Galaxy and a Sovereign.
cost money to heat? this isnt a studio apartment you know. heat generally cant escape a space ship. if anything it would need heat exchangers to cool the air, from all the body heat, heat from computers etc. not being able to go anywhere.
It depends on construction methods, materials and what actually goes into it. It’s possible that Sovereign is more resources-heavy than Galaxy in spite of being smaller. The basic structure of the Sovereign certain seems massively more robust than the Galaxy’s.
2:50 reusing a name AND the registry number and adding a letter to it is actually (and it only makes sense this way) something rare and only reserved for very specific ships. Thats because a ship is identified by its registry, not by its name and therfore there could even be ships with the same Name in service, but a different registry number. So giving a new Stargazer a new registry is the only logical decision (as it was no special ship to Starfleet)
there's even a documented case of 2 Starfleet ships, both relatively new, sharing a name, specifically the Galaxy class and Challenger class ships named USS Challenger. Bets are on them having different namesakes though.
Me seeing the OG USS Excelsior still beeing in active service is pretty wild. This thing is then truely the oldest Ship of the Fleet in avtive Service but makes sense since the Excelsior class was always pretty easy to refit and get up to date. And many Admirals chossed them out of prestige as there personal Ships so i assume some admiral was keen on preserving her to this day and at this point nobody dares even mentioning decomissioning the Excelsior.
if you imagine that the USS Constitution, a wooden ship put in service in 1797 is still floating around IN service it makes the USS Excelsior pretty realistic. A lot of old sailors where used for hundreds of years and got some upgrades to steamships. I think its like the same with see navy and space navy: If you constructed a great type you can use it forever as long as you can upgrade stuff.
It's not the OG Excelsior, it's the Excelsior-II Class "USS Excelsior NCC-42037". Canonically, the "USS Excelsior NCC-2000" was decommissioned in 2320, over 80 years before this episode.
as one of the lucky few who played ST:O since release, its a pleasure to finally see these ships integrated in a tv show! still waiting for the Vesta(t6) fleets tho!
Yes, that was the Excelsior in the episode but that wasn't an Excelsior class ship, it was an Obena class as seen in Star Trek Lower decks. The saucer is actually an oval like all the newer Starfleet ships and it's bigger than the old Excelsior class ships its design is just based on them.
Disagree- Raffi called in immediately after it was shown warping in (from the Excelsior). Granted, theoretically, it could be the (current) Excelsior is an Obena-class- but the primary hull (as far as I could tell from the few shots we got) didn't have the angular shape the Archimedes did. (Though we really didn't get a good angle to confirm.) (Presuming the OG Excelsior isn't still in service...)
@@LouTufillaro Don't worry, I can clear this up. Supposedly it's the USS Excelsior NCC-42037, 588 metres long, with an extended saucer and new nacelles, according to a twitter post by Dave Blass, from a behind the scenes team. And there are also several sister ships present, with similar registries. Images can be found on a pbs.twimg dot com, including a size chart, with other ships in the fleet. And no, it's not the Obena, but has a lot in common. Probably smaller, too.
Thanks for this! Man I love the new fleet! That is what we should expect realistically from a 25th century Starfleet! And the ships just look awesome and fitting for it's era! Obviously this time, time and effort went into designing the ships and make it as diverse as possible, without ressorting to cheap tricks. I am allways glad to see, that the contemporary Star Trek production in deed learn from their earlier mistakes and go out of their way to put an emphasis on their corrections!
The "copy and paste" fleet would be a rapid response fleet, to be used as a show of force post-Dominion War, and then you have the rest of Starfleet. Starfleet can have more than one fleet, you know. But, it does look like the producers actually addressed the fans concerns.
Seems to me like some of the ships were pulled directly from STO, or at least the Gagarin was, especially with that designation being the same exact one from the mmo
@@Makeeto - yeah credit to the artists, The models are high enough quality that they could be put in a scene while not exactly close up but not Far away in the distance either.
I do like to see the use of verity in the fleet and not copy and past there. And the fact the the ships from Star Trek Online - Southerland, Reliant, Ross and Gagarin Classes are finally being used from STO, play the game now over 10 years or more and the ships do feel Starfleet and add the the different amount of ships with the fleet. Very cool to see and love to see what they do more with in the Star Trek shows.
This is awesome!! STO ships finally in the show and canon!!! And mad respect for the Excelsior class officially being the oldest ships serving in starfleet!
Maybe the Reliant Class is Starfleet's way of providing recompense to the families of all the officers that were unjustly condemned to die in all the secret purges conducted by the old Admiralty. "Dad was killed on a Miranda? Here's a free Reliant-class, kid."
the visual effects supervisor pretty much said the "cutting and pasting" pf the same ship in the first season finale was due to a time crunch. Chabon and the writers did not write their scripts in advance. likely due to Viacom trying to rush the series in production and pushing forward the premiere to save their streaming service. creating movie level effects for a tv show takes a considerable lead time.
I freaked out when I saw all the STO ships onscreen. I've played STO since BETA, it's incredibly satisfying to see some of the same ships my toon commands made official canon. I am waiting with high expectations to see the Odyssey Class Enterprise-F or one of the final exploits of the Enterprise-E (STO Lore: 'E' was destroyed in 2408. Picard S2 opens in the fall of 2401)
More than likely the fleet from season 1 was a pure battle fleet. It was called in to deal with a Romulan attack fleet. While in season 2 it was an unknown anomaly. So just ships in the area were called in.
In universe that makes sense cause the defiant class Sisko says that "the defiant was to be the first ship in what would be a new federation battle fleet" but in the real world they were just lazy, cheap gits that couldn't be arsed to pay for the use of fan models!
@@vasyear if you followed history Beta and canon. You will note that the federation time and against would start to develop new ships built more towards combat. But as soon as the threat looks to far in the distance they pull it back. Until after the 1st Dominion War. Then Starfleet jumps in on the Battle Fleet idea. No thinking navy style you want different classes that do different tasks. Again using Star Trek history and the Dominion war. Star Fleet used a quick build of easy interchangable ship pieces to produce some ugly but needed ships. Using that history. Making 1 ship and a standard format simplifies the manufacturing process and allows Star Fleet to build more ship and a quicker rate.
Those are some pretty nifty ship classes, but after seeing that episode, I was more interested in the Borg's new ship. Why wasn't it a basic geometric shape like most of their ships? Is it something they built or assimilated? And is it another fleet-killer like the cubes have been?
Fun fact; the "USS Excelsior NCC-2000" was decommissioned in 2320, over 80 years before this episode. The ship in this episode is the Excelsior-II Class "USS Excelsior NCC-42037". It's funny seeing people still try to call LD non-canon; it's canon, deal with it people.
Some lovely new ship designs. For once, I got no issue with any of the Fed designs. I do like the lines of the Reliant class, and the Luna class, but I'd definitely take an Akira too.
Oh my beloved Akira returns. Such a gorgeous class. (YES i am nerd when Akira class came in question, love that ship so much) WE WANT MORE, WANT MORE!!! MAKE IT SO!!
Minor correction, but I believe the Excelsior shown is infact the Excelsior II model. A bit of the give away is that she's one of the biggest ships in the fleet. Its basically someone giving the Excelsior the BoP treatment but instead of scaling it to make it cheap they scaled it to make it more powerful and updated.
The lore-friendly explanation for the "copy and paste" fleet from Picard season 1 is that it was a dedicated tactical response force specifically deployed to act as an intimidating, muscular counter to the Romulan fleet. Kind of a rapid-reaction power projection force. Meanwhile, the more diverse fleet from season 2 was responding to a spatial anomaly with uncertain implications, necessitating a fleet with a broader range of capabilities. IRL, a professor at the Naval War College noted that it did reflect the benefits of having a common naval architecture that can mass-produce militarily superior platforms. But ultimately, the season 1 fleet was just a non-optimal creative decision. At least they thought better for season 2
I love that they have looked back to Star Trek's past for both designs and names. Personally, I kind of hope, because of how the class is named, that every Ross-class Exploratory Cruiser is named after Starfleet heroes and important persons. For example: USS Sisko USS Spock USS Picard USS Janeway USS Kirk USS Archer USS Dax USS O'Brien USS Bashir etc Idk, I think it would be a nice touch :)
the excelsior has sovereign nacelles. It is a refit of the class, plenty of people did them as near post-dom are. something like excelsior II or Chabot online.
@@Tuskin38 It is entirely possible that this IS the original Excelsior is now a training ship for cadets since Elnor was assigned to it and Raffi, a commander rank, is in command of it
@The Templin Institute You all talk about 2 Sovereigns but there are up to 7 in scene when Stargazer explodes. Just look that scene :) 3 are on left side close ups, and possibly 4 on right side, I am sure about 3 on right also,1 may not be Sovereign...But for sure we got 6 Sovereigns!!!! :D :D :D
Awesome video. And so nice to see them actually providing a diverse fleet rather than a Copy+Paste rush job. I dream of seeing an Odyssey Class by the end of the Season.
I love Star Trek for its ships. I just realized that the new Mirada class now has some sort of deflector dish. It brings up a question of how the old Mirada class deflected particles in space.
In Season 1 of Star Trek Picard, you heard the CNC stating to Picard, she was sending a wing his way. With all of the issues facing the Federation and Starfleet it makes sense to have 2 groups within Starfleet. One is the traditional exploration first and defense second and secondly a group separated into combat wings which are solely for the defense of the federation and act as a rapid deployment force. It makes sense that these should be made up of the same ships with some variance, but very tough. I know this was complained about online that the Starfleet of the future did not look like the Starfleet of the past, but this does explain this. Starfleet may not at the time considered this anomaly to be a threat and only sent the defense second ships. Roddenberry would not have liked this concept and he had a higher ideal of the future but after Star Trek DS9 we really should not be complaining too much. I could be off maybe they just had budget issues thus essentially one ship was used, Naahhh.
I honestly had no problem with the fleet of Inquiry Class. You can see some minor variations of them. It made sense after the encounter and losses with the Borg and Dominion for production to streamline to use as many of the same components as possible. The worst thing you can do during crisis is to complicate your shipbuilding possess with 50 different classes. Riker states it's their most tactically capable ship which falls in line with this. It was stated during the show that the task force was being put together ahead of time, so it wasn't entirely a cobbled together emergency response. No one complained in the past when only a fleet of Romulan D'deridex class would show up.
Assuming that is the Excelsior class ship we all know, i mean it could be feasible that the nacelles were completely replaced with new ones. To use a contemporary example, the KC-135 Stratotanker of the Air Force had smaller engines than it does now and has been in service for nearly 65 years (1957-present) and were retrofitted with new engines twice during that timespan and they are still going today and not projected to be retired until 2030. To me it doesn't seem like it's the old school Excelsior as it was based off the it. Maybe someone sat down with an Excelsior model and said "how can I make this modern?" Overall, I'm glad they didn't use the same cookie cutter starships from the season finale. That was a big letdown for me too
You do realize that it makes sense in so many ways to have a standard ship design. If it works well and you can adapt it for many uses, parts are interchangeable, the production tooling is standard. In the same way the Navy does with the F 18 Hornet frame.
I don't think we're meant to infer that Raffi's U.S.S. Excelsior is the same one from the movies. It looks like an Obena-class to me, likely a recent build. And yeah, seeing a much more varied Federation fleet, including STO ships, was total nerd porn. :P
I will say, while Newer trek tends to have a multitude of complaints and issues in the first seasons, they seem to try to attend to those issues in later seasons. At least the complaints I had such as the one the video creator alluded to with the copy paste issue.
@@Idazmi7 Is that an actual complaint or trying to make up something to complain about? Memberberry yeah is that bad, is it derivative of something we should all know or what?
@@DeathBYDesign666 I believe it refers to using "memberberries" to disguise a lack of substance, creativity, or craft in the writing and execution of a show or film. If you want to disguise a poor plot or bad dialogue, just throw in some ships and characters that fans will recognize from the "good ole days". Nostalgia boost +2. Remember, it isn't just the presence of canon material (this is necessary for any good world building), but the use of nostalgia to cloak a poor product with warm fan feelings. I'm not saying that's what will happen in this season. This is just an explanation of the negative connotation of memberberries. Star Trek is certainly not the only franchise guilty of this.
@@Acrosurge _"I believe it refers to using "memberberries" to disguise a lack of substance, creativity, or craft in the writing and execution of a show or film."_ Exactly that. All of the Star Trek shows with "Bad Robot" attached to the production have had woefully poor storytelling. It's transparently obvious that they went out of their way to name every ship in that group after some major part of Star Trek lore - that wasn't the case with any other fleet in the franchise. They did this *right after* they got called out on the ludicrous 'copy-paste fleet' from before. The 'copy-paste fleet' was just one symptom of their complete lack of effort, and the new, diversified fleet only exists due to the criticism they got.
@@Acrosurge Well my reply to this is the inevitable, what else can they possibly do to please fans? They could have went with a post Dominian war fleet and been called out for that. This only ensures that they might as well do whatever they want because they will get complaints either way.
Captain James T. Kirk: "Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."
I was disappointed when I seen the Stargazer had a different registry number, but quickly forgave them when I seen the rest of the fleet... Also, I think the promo the aired before the credits featured a Steamrunner class, which I thought was pretty cool.
My theory is since it was the first (and named) ship of its (new) class, they gave it a new registry and went without any dashed letters. I mean, "The Stargazer-B, first ship of her class", doesn't have the same feel, aye?
The copy and paste fleet was totally Riker remembering the Picard maneuver and extrapolating independently. In his interaction, he is definitely working his poker side.
Uh, you're saying that while Riker was talking to the romulan person he was having his ship do multiple warp leap things...enough to make it seem like there's an entire fleet. Not likely but more realistic than the actual plot. Good job.
@@drewjackson3858 What he did was the mirror thing, which Picard had done; Riker learnt from the best. And Riker is a total bluffer, and plays poker from a position of strength when dealt a weak hand.
These are mostly STO ship designs. STO takes place primary in the 25th century, so this makes sense. If they continue making these ships, there will be some interesting looking ships shown on screen
I always understood that letters after hull numbers are reserved for legacy ships that distinguish themselves through history, like the Enterprise, or radical refits, like the Discovery, after a thousand years worth of upgrades (it's the same hull, after all). The reuse of names, even distinguished names, doesn't merit keeping the hull number. This far, I only remember the Enterprise receiving that honor. The defiant didn't in DS9.
Sagan class (stargazer) Resolute class (Excelisor) Ross class (Galaxy w/sovereign deflector) and Garagin class (bottom left) and Southerland class (nebula veriant)
Starfleet ships that manage to avoid rapid unplanned disassembly for long periods of time get refurbished and retrofit with state-of-the-art systems every 10-20 years. That might be the Excelsior, but there is probably very little of the original Excelsior left in its present form.
You mention that the new Stargazer has a new registry. But, its based on the old one. The Constellation Class Stargazer was NCC-2893 while the New Stargazer is NCC-82893. Very cute.
Lower Decks has never been stated to be in an alternate timeline, for all intents and purposes it is Prime
But Prime Continuity is not Classic Continuity. In the Kelvin timeline JJ uses slight of hand to imply the Prime timeline is the timeline the audience knows spans TOS to ENT. However JJ did not have the licence to use Classic assets at that time. Much in the same way the MCU cannot things from the comics relating to Spider-Man unless they change things. MCU Fisk being stronger than his TV counterpart for example.
Man this was awesome. A HUGE improvement over what the last season had. It was thrilling to see STO designs utilised, and it really shows that they listened to genuinely passionate fans. Story-wise, I’ll await the rest of the series cautiously optimistic for what is to come but I am far more interested in where our main characters are in the 25th Century. Time travel has been used to great effect before but it does feel as though they are avoiding a direct continuation of the 90s Show Trio here. Fingers crossed for further continuations of the Stargazer and La Sirena stories.
It had nothing to do with listening to the fans. The problem with the fleet last season was time. The fleet was added to the show last minute, they had a month to design, build and render the scene.
Had the fleet scene been planned there from the start of the series, we probably would have had more designs in it.
Only thing I’d add is a few wolfpacks of Defiants, seeing as they are the anti-Borg warship
@@Tuskin38 Considering that the fleet did jack and shit, even using a variety of old cgi assets would've been better than what we got.
exactly. this is series we should have gotten last season. Chabon is a talented writer but last season was a damn mess. im hoping this season is more cohesive, makes sense, and has a decent conclusion
@@gabelogan5877 Yeahhh... that first season was a mess narratively speaking. Although I'm a little concerned about this one too, started off well but if this is just an entire season of time travel 'we need to fix the timeline... again' stuff I'm not sure how much I'm going to like it. I find this trope has been done to death in Trek and I'm even more skeptical of it as the basis for a season long arc.
The Ross Class starship actually comes from an Actual Play livestream show called Clear Skies. The U.S.S. Ross was conceived as a one-of-a-kind prototype variant of the Galaxy Class, named after Mary G. Ross. The folks from Clear Skies collaborated with the team at Star Trek Online to design the ship, which they later added into the game. When Star Trek Online was approached by the production team for Star Trek Picard to diversify the Starfleet ships in Season 2, the Ross Class was one of the designs they liked, and so officially canonized a fan-created ship! The Clear Skies cast lost their minds when they found out: ruclips.net/video/aQ0t0GOMoV4/видео.html
@@turtletube420 not according to the people who created it...
Miracle worker isn’t a part of its in universe name, it’s a reference to its in game mechanics.
Ditto with the battlecruiser designation. That just means it has cruiser commands, spefically "phasers full power" and "over here! look at me! shoot me, not these other guys that are totally going to be shooting at you", and the capability to mount dual cannons in addition to beam arrays and banks.
Lower Decks is not an alternate universe. Original Trek had episodes in its animated series that are canon.
Thank you! The muscle twitch trigger to shunt anything a fan does not like into a "parallel reality" is why Im usually iffy about watching any Trek analysis videos on tech.
@@27volt same, it drives me crazy. If people dont like something they can just say they dont like it. This not prime thing is obnoxious.
@@exilestudios9546 No, he referred to LD as "alternate" as well.
A few things, that Excelsior is actually an Obena class. Which was first seen in Lower Decks as the USS Archimedes, with Captain Sonya Gomez. There are some signs Lower Decks is not some alternate reality. Just a different presentation of this one. The Stargazer is not the class ship. It is a Sagan Class.
Isn't lower decks explicitly part of the prime universe? If anything it looks closer to the prime universe than discovery.
@@keyboardt8276 yes it is, and also takes place just a year after Nemesis
@@keyboardt8276 Everything looks closer to the Prime Universe than discovery. Even Kelvin timeline ships.
It's not an Obena class, nor is it the original Excelsior. It's an entirely new ship/class.
Lower Decks was only greenlit on the condition that it would be canon to the main series. The creators said they wanted it to "matter".
Seeing the familiar shape of the Sutherland (and subsequently Andromeda class) deflector in a real live action Star Trek show is goddamn surreal.
STObros vindicated finally
Finally Star Trek Online gets some recognition after single-handedly carrying the Star Trek IP for the past twelve years
STO said "I am going to become real in 5 seconds. I suggest you start running."
@@exilestudios9546 when was The Iconian war mentioned? Is there a link to a video it being mentioned that I can see
@@anidiot2284 The Admiral mentioned that the remaining members of the Ironien species could be responsable for creating the black hole phenomena in Disco season 4
@@anidiot2284 they mentioned the iconians but not the war so still not officially Canon
Yeah, it kept sto kept the prime universe alive during the period when it looked like CBS may have given up on it, and possibly convinced them that the prime universe still had a large fanbase
As a long time Star Trek online player this is very satisfying
Holding out hope that either the Odyssey Class or Yorktown Class might make appearance in the future.
Given the existence of the Verity, I think this may actually happen.
I wouldn’t hold my breath, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it showed up as part of a final battle or something.
@@timesthree5757 oh yes, yes those god beautiful ships
@@richieThach Oh my yes those sweet creatures of grace
Not gonna lie, if they show Captain Shon of the USS Enterprise F I would love it.
@@timesthree5757 Oh yeah? Name a better ship that fits the role
My theory on Riker’s fleet is that it was a quick reaction force. A bunch of ships built up on the lessons learned from the defiant class. Kept minimally crewed and ready to respond shortly to something like a trans warp conduit opening in the Sol system or an admiral drawing the ire of the super tal shiar.
that was my thought as well, a fleet that could work great for a bluff or inferior numbers...but if they had to fight something on par with them then the cracks would show.
Or, even more likely, breakthroughs in holoprojection technology has allowed ships to project itself into nearby areas thus confusing the enemy. That's my headcanon at least
@@Eradicator-jv9xr that makes decent sense
@@gups4963 assuming that they are of all the same class, you would think it would be a uber-secret fleet only dispatched as a black ops mission like section 31. And I'm pretty sure she isn't actually an admiral but merely a commodore(ie higher than captain but not real admiral) so thecnivally she wouldn't yet know about
A rapid response fleet makes a lot of sense. Whether Borg attack, an incident like the Prometheus, or any number of wild and wacky threats over the years, Starfleet has time and again been caught with its pants down, relying on the skill and good luck of ships that weren't designed for such things to paper up the cracks.
I love the idea that the USS Excelsior itself is still in use
The Excelsior quickly became Starfleet’s version of the B-52. Repeatedly refitted because it has a niche role it’s still fit for and it’s cheaper than a brand new frame.
You'd be surprised how realistic that is. Old ships can continue serving far longer than you'd think. The first British warship called Sovereign of the Seas lasted many decades, the reigns of several monarchs and through numerous wars, and that thing was made of wood. The Queen Elizabeth-class battleships were built before WW1, yet were still kicking butt as frontline battleships in WW2. Modern American supercarriers can last fifty years or more. These things are built to last.
Can't keep a good Excelsior-class down, and CERTAINLY not the grandpappy of em all!
We also can't rule out that it isn't an Obena type refit.
Tbh, looking at its size compared to the rest I actually think it's the Obena class from Lower Decks🤔
Edit: it is an (new) Excelsior II class Starship 🤷
Thanks to Reddit user Th3ChosenFew for identifying the Reliant Class, that one stumped me.
Additionally, since this video was edited, additional information has revealed claiming that what I call the “Stargazer Class” is actually the Sagan Class. Given the USS Stargazer was the lead ship of the class, it’s possible Starfleet has broken with tradition here.
On top of that, I was wrong about the "Excelsior" being the original NCC-2000, much to my embarrassment. It looks like a new class designated the Excelsior-II. (Not the Obena)
Might be that the USS Sagan had issues and commissioned after the new USS Stargazer. Shipyard delays,accidents,or numerous other things might have caused it.
The name "Miracle Worker" is yet another nod to the past. There already was a Starfleet ship named like this.
What does the 25th-C Starfleet look like? I direct you to "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" from 1979 starring Gil Gerard . . . .
@@subraxas STO ship classification is by capability. Miracle Worker vessels are defined by being designed for use with bridge officers that have the Miracle Worker Specialization, namely a command seat of that Specialization.
You say copy and paste , ship .
But you could say tactical fleet. And riker states that they are toughest, strongest. So why not pull all of them together to make a point , basically I have a 1000 stones to throw
It was amazing seeing all those ships pop up!!! It felt like a real fleet with diverse ships
Referring to Lower Decks as an alternative reality/timeline is really really confusing, especially when it’s not, and the cinematic/Kelvin timeline is the main alternate reality ever referred to in regards to visuals.
yeah i see people do this from time to time and its just silly. its 100% maincanon even if its a silly cartoon. its still a lot more loyal to the shows of the past then any other show currently in production (having said that.. Picard season 2 starts off very very good. )
@@kebabgud couldn’t agree more
Had to dig for this... Lower Decks is prime timeline.
I think that Lower Decks is better thought of as an alternate lens through which the prime timeline is viewed - a more comedic lens, but still a valid one (and Lower Decks absolutely drops the comedy when the moment calls for it - the second half of S2E10 only has laughs in the final minutes, and those laughs are brought to an abrupt end after SPOILER happens).
I like to think that the fleet we saw at the end of season 1 is a "fast response" fleet and the ships are successors to the Defiant, heavily armed escort vessels designed to respond with force quickly. But the day to day operations and patrols are done by the ships and structures we're more familiar with. It makes sense to me, as the Defiant was originally supposed to be.
A fast response fleet of that size would have helped immeasurably in the Borg inscurions and Dominion war.
Unfortunately, per Eaglemoss, I wouldn’t imagine ships as long as a Galaxy with a volume twice that would be “fast response escorts”.
Sooo, what you are saying it that Starfleet is now so huge they can station a 'fast response' fleet of a hundred ships that all look the same in every sector of the Federation? I mean for them to respond so fast, literally under 24 hours after being warned of the threat, to one particular planet that has to be the case. Rather than what we see in TNG where it takes days to summon ships to form a fleet to fight off a Borg incursion and even then they only gather a dozen or so diverse ships.
@@ukmediawarrior Yes
I just assumed it was all parked at one place relatively close until they got past the OSHA check and Riker just commendeered them for his emergency fleet.
@@ukmediawarrior Post dominion war and post several borg incursions, it is more plausible.
The USS Ross is actually named for Mary G. Ross, a native american who became the first native american female engineer, the first female engineer at Lockheed, and played a part in the early history of earth spaceflight
Where you find that?
@@vasyear I'm not sure where it's ultimately stated but it's part of the lore of the Clear Skies podcast the ship was created for
@@kirkkerman He is right, look on Wikipedia and Besides if you've watched DS9 it was found out Adm. William Ross was an agent of Section 31 also.
@@sdwhite1978 he was working WITH section 31. doesn't nesscarily make him a agent of it though
There's bound to be a Excelsior class that's had a _minor refit_ still operating in the 30th century.
Nah that the Miranda Class
I despaired during Season 1's finale that Starfleet had decided to run with mono-class fleet. Kind of ruined the appeal for me. But seeing this image makes me now think that perhaps the fleet Riker brought together was constructed SOLELY for combat, and that it probably sits around the Sol system on standby until needed.
Thats my thought as well: a rapid response force of pure combat ships held in reserve to deploy into combat or emergencies at the drop of a hat.
Yeah, it makes sense for the Federation to have a ginormous battle fleet on standby. It would indicate that the Federation learned its lesson after the first two Borg attacks and the Breen attack. It still doesn't explain the homogeneity of the fleet (where are the scouts, the tenders, the big heavy hitters, the smaller Defiant-style attack ships?), but it's as good an explanation as any.
pretty much. While visually bleh to see only a couple variants of ship in that scene, it makes sense when you think about it as being a standby fleet.
Also a fleet of the same or similar ships can salvage parts off of ships that are too damaged to continue, reducing the need to cary as many spare parts or return to starbase for repairs.
@@sokonek1 good thinkin!
I have both a Sutherland-class and a Reliant-class on STO - so awesome to see them on the big screen!
Guess I'll have to get my own Reliant(Malachowski) and Gagarin dusted off😋👍🖖
So nice to see a proper fleet again!
BUT… is Lower Decks an alternate timeline? I thought it was confirmed to be canon prime timeline??
its absolutely in the prime timeline
It is 100% canon prime timeline, as much as Discovery, or Voyager, haters just like to hate on things they don't like.
I have the theory that the excelsior is not NCC-2000 but another ship that bears the same name. Either way it's nice to see other classes and it's good to know that the akira and sovereign classes are still serving the fleet.
Obena class Heavy Cruiser. First seen as the USS Archimedes NCC-83002 in "Lower Decks" episode First First Contact.
Ryan you are right. It's a totally new class, and it's not an Obena.
Just want to clarify, I wasn't saying this new excelsior was a sovereign class. It just looks like there might have been some in that fleet which is nice to see
It's actually the Excelsior-II Class "USS Excelsior NCC-42037".
I'm not sure why you think Lower Decks takes place in an alternate timeline? Just because it's animated?
Correction: The higher ups have been pretty clear that Lower Decks IS canon despite being an animated comedy.
Just take the events as depicted with a grain of salt, because it is stylized.
I have a friend who hates on it because he decided that all the characters must be genetic augments. He thinks their physical feats are not possible otherwise and it undermines Bshir's character.
1:07 - 1:40 - Just in case no one has pointed it out yet but what you just covered was in fact the *Excelsior II* class. Yea, for some reason they've decided to keep the Excelsior well into the 25th century by launching a whole new class of them!
Without the beefy parts added to the secondary hull I am pretty sure the Excelsior class ship is actually the non-cartoon Obena.
It doesn’t have the right nacelles or pylons though, and it’s literally the OG USS Excelsior - I think it’s just revived similar refits, but you never know.
@@Hexagonal_Goblin at no point did we ever get confirmation that the USS Excelsior mentioned in the episode is the Original ship.
It's a totally new ship, not the Obena or ncc-2000.
@@walruspolish yeah I saw that after. Apparently it is an Excelsior - 2 class.
@@a6two yep. She's a beauty!
Is it just me, or are the Templin Institute trying to say that Lower Decks isn't part of the prime timeline? (Rhetorical question)
they flat out said LD was some "alternate, animated universe"
@@MJG206 personally I tend to see it as "the events are prime universe but maybe some of the more funny stuff isn't, strictly speaking, prime"
If I'm not mistaken lower decks is just straight cannon like they've said that before and I haven't seen anything that's greatly cannon breaking for it to be impossible
Except, maybe, Q fucking with the LD crew on multiple occasions. Or the stone that called Armus. And the whole Black Mountain thing...
(Honestly, I take it as canon, from shortly after the TNG movies)
The Excelsior was further explained by Dave Blass (PIC production designer) on Twitter to be the "U.S.S. Excelsior NCC-42037". An Excelsior II class starship.
Even on screen it is not a stock Excelsior. there are differences. the secondary hull is more pointy towards the bottom, the saucer is different and the nacelles are much higher
Spot on. I think this video jumped the gun a little bit!
I didn't watch the Picard show, and I'm not heavily invested in it, but I'm at least partially convinced that the vast majority of the ships in Riker's fleet of cookie-cutter ships were holographic. Weather they were a form of EW bluff designed to make the Romulan sensors think there were more ships than there were or they were fully combat-capable holo-ships generated like the holographic armor seen in the last episode of Voyager, I'm not sure, but either is a more interesting answer than simply that many of the same class of ship in one fleet.
Exactly what I was thinking. We've seen stuff like this before, it's not implausible that Starfleet decided it could be used as a sort of advanced decoy screen in battle.
That's actually very convincing. Now that I think about it, it can be possible.
An interesting theory, which is not improbably considering the USS Voyager used the same tactic in "Basics, Part 1".
That'd be a very neat trick indeed. Doubly so given that Picard used that exact same tactic just before Starfleet arrived, showing how much he and Riker affected each other during all those years of service, enough that they independently used identical tactics.
I imagine the Sovereign actually costs less to make than a Galaxy. It has less empty space. In space, ever square millimeter will cost all that more to heat and air and keep from being exposed to vacuum. I can easily see if being like the Excelsior, an excellent design that can last over a hundred years, though it seems that the Obenna is the true Excelsior successor.
Nah. In Trek, much like real life, the 'expensive' bit is all the advanced technology and specialised engineering. The spaceframe would be relatively easy and quick to build; the real bugger would be fitting out. Heating and aerating large spaces is trivial with Trek tech, unlike real spaceships...and honestly, even then, it's not that taxing.
The Sovereigns are a generation more advanced than the Galaxies, so they would've been much more expensive to build initially. Beyond that, it's a question of which class is more easily refitted with the latest technology and can stay relevant fifty or a hundred years later. That's almost certainly why the Excelsiors remained in front-line service long after the newer Ambassador-class was retired.
Compared to the power involved in Warp travel, shields, structural integrity fields, sensors, artificial gravity, and weapons, the additional energy used for climate control of that extra space is virtually nothing. So, no, it doesn't factor into the operational cost difference between a Galaxy and a Sovereign.
cost money to heat?
this isnt a studio apartment you know. heat generally cant escape a space ship.
if anything it would need heat exchangers to cool the air, from all the body heat, heat from computers etc. not being able to go anywhere.
It depends on construction methods, materials and what actually goes into it. It’s possible that Sovereign is more resources-heavy than Galaxy in spite of being smaller.
The basic structure of the Sovereign certain seems massively more robust than the Galaxy’s.
2:50 reusing a name AND the registry number and adding a letter to it is actually (and it only makes sense this way) something rare and only reserved for very specific ships. Thats because a ship is identified by its registry, not by its name and therfore there could even be ships with the same Name in service, but a different registry number. So giving a new Stargazer a new registry is the only logical decision (as it was no special ship to Starfleet)
there's even a documented case of 2 Starfleet ships, both relatively new, sharing a name, specifically the Galaxy class and Challenger class ships named USS Challenger. Bets are on them having different namesakes though.
I guess the NX-01 is the exception other wise the 1701 would be the A
@@anidiot2284 how? NX-01 was its registry number, so while the connie Enterprise shared the name never shared the registration number
I hope we see a new variant of the intrepid class ships modeled after the USS Voyager
Well the two ships can think of be Bellaphorne class and Pathfinder class I like idea of Pathfinder myself has it really good looking ship in STO
The also Discovery class that bit strange looking
Yes, i'd love to see the Pathfinder-class or Bellerophon-class canonised, preferably with the lead ship being the Voyager-A
Me seeing the OG USS Excelsior still beeing in active service is pretty wild. This thing is then truely the oldest Ship of the Fleet in avtive Service but makes sense since the Excelsior class was always pretty easy to refit and get up to date. And many Admirals chossed them out of prestige as there personal Ships so i assume some admiral was keen on preserving her to this day and at this point nobody dares even mentioning decomissioning the Excelsior.
if you imagine that the USS Constitution, a wooden ship put in service in 1797 is still floating around IN service it makes the USS Excelsior pretty realistic. A lot of old sailors where used for hundreds of years and got some upgrades to steamships. I think its like the same with see navy and space navy: If you constructed a great type you can use it forever as long as you can upgrade stuff.
It's not the OG Excelsior
It's not the OG Excelsior, it's the Excelsior-II Class "USS Excelsior NCC-42037".
Canonically, the "USS Excelsior NCC-2000" was decommissioned in 2320, over 80 years before this episode.
as one of the lucky few who played ST:O since release, its a pleasure to finally see these ships integrated in a tv show!
still waiting for the Vesta(t6) fleets tho!
IIRC the Vetsa was designed for a book series originally and just getting it into STO took some legal wrangling, so they MAY not be inclined to use it
Yes, that was the Excelsior in the episode but that wasn't an Excelsior class ship, it was an Obena class as seen in Star Trek Lower decks. The saucer is actually an oval like all the newer Starfleet ships and it's bigger than the old Excelsior class ships its design is just based on them.
Disagree- Raffi called in immediately after it was shown warping in (from the Excelsior).
Granted, theoretically, it could be the (current) Excelsior is an Obena-class- but the primary hull (as far as I could tell from the few shots we got) didn't have the angular shape the Archimedes did. (Though we really didn't get a good angle to confirm.) (Presuming the OG Excelsior isn't still in service...)
This kind of drove me crazy. The ship in question clearly looks different or at least upgraded from a “stock excelsior class”
@@LouTufillaro Don't worry, I can clear this up. Supposedly it's the USS Excelsior NCC-42037, 588 metres long, with an extended saucer and new nacelles, according to a twitter post by Dave Blass, from a behind the scenes team. And there are also several sister ships present, with similar registries.
Images can be found on a pbs.twimg dot com, including a size chart, with other ships in the fleet.
And no, it's not the Obena, but has a lot in common. Probably smaller, too.
It's actually an Excelsior-II Class.
It was an excelsior II class
Thanks for this! Man I love the new fleet! That is what we should expect realistically from a 25th century Starfleet! And the ships just look awesome and fitting for it's era! Obviously this time, time and effort went into designing the ships and make it as diverse as possible, without ressorting to cheap tricks.
I am allways glad to see, that the contemporary Star Trek production in deed learn from their earlier mistakes and go out of their way to put an emphasis on their corrections!
The warmth in my soul to see an Excelsior-class again
The "copy and paste" fleet would be a rapid response fleet, to be used as a show of force post-Dominion War, and then you have the rest of Starfleet. Starfleet can have more than one fleet, you know. But, it does look like the producers actually addressed the fans concerns.
Seems to me like some of the ships were pulled directly from STO, or at least the Gagarin was, especially with that designation being the same exact one from the mmo
The developers mentioned it on one of their streams, it’s the straight up in game models transferred to their engine.
@@dreadnought-ai That's actually really neat imo
@@exilestudios9546 That's actually pretty neat ngl
@@Makeeto - yeah credit to the artists, The models are high enough quality that they could be put in a scene while not exactly close up but not Far away in the distance either.
This is fine, good even
I do like to see the use of verity in the fleet and not copy and past there. And the fact the the ships from Star Trek Online - Southerland, Reliant, Ross and Gagarin Classes are finally being used from STO, play the game now over 10 years or more and the ships do feel Starfleet and add the the different amount of ships with the fleet. Very cool to see and love to see what they do more with in the Star Trek shows.
I’m just glad they solved that only ship in the quadrant problem.
Starfleet Reimagined!
I have the Gagarin in STO. It's a damn good ship. Better I think than the Vengeance everyone lusts after.
This is awesome!! STO ships finally in the show and canon!!! And mad respect for the Excelsior class officially being the oldest ships serving in starfleet!
On Twitter the production team showed the dedication plaque of the stargazer and it confirmed it was Sagan Class.
Maybe the Reliant Class is Starfleet's way of providing recompense to the families of all the officers that were unjustly condemned to die in all the secret purges conducted by the old Admiralty. "Dad was killed on a Miranda? Here's a free Reliant-class, kid."
It's very cool to see STO ships in actual startrek
Pretty sure that’snot an Excelsior considering the relative size; might be an Obena given that’s a modern Excelsior w/ a larger spaceframe
Nah, completely wrong nacelles and pylons to be an Obena.
It is shown to be the actual USS Excelsior in the episode
@@Tuskin38 since when are Excelsiors this big? it looks like it’s rendered to be the same size as the sovereigns, which… no
@@ImmortaIis no registry number… entirely possible it’s an Obena carrying the name; much more likely than an Excelsior surviving the Dominion war
@@ImmortaIis it's not. It's a totally new class of ship.
I thought about the ship that you had labelled an Excelsior-class. I believe it is an Obena-class that was introduced in Lower Decks s2e10.
It's not, it's a totally new class.
It's the Excelsior-II Class "USS Excelsior NCC-42037".
the visual effects supervisor pretty much said the "cutting and pasting" pf the same ship in the first season finale was due to a time crunch. Chabon and the writers did not write their scripts in advance. likely due to Viacom trying to rush the series in production and pushing forward the premiere to save their streaming service. creating movie level effects for a tv show takes a considerable lead time.
The Ross Class is actually named after Mary G Ross, a Native American Scientist and Engineer of the 20th Century.
I freaked out when I saw all the STO ships onscreen. I've played STO since BETA, it's incredibly satisfying to see some of the same ships my toon commands made official canon.
I am waiting with high expectations to see the Odyssey Class Enterprise-F or one of the final exploits of the Enterprise-E (STO Lore: 'E' was destroyed in 2408. Picard S2 opens in the fall of 2401)
It's almost like people actually pay attention to starships in Star Trek..... Pity it took so long for the current producers to finally realize this.
More than likely the fleet from season 1 was a pure battle fleet. It was called in to deal with a Romulan attack fleet. While in season 2 it was an unknown anomaly. So just ships in the area were called in.
In universe that makes sense cause the defiant class Sisko says that "the defiant was to be the first ship in what would be a new federation battle fleet" but in the real world they were just lazy, cheap gits that couldn't be arsed to pay for the use of fan models!
@@vasyear if you followed history Beta and canon. You will note that the federation time and against would start to develop new ships built more towards combat. But as soon as the threat looks to far in the distance they pull it back. Until after the 1st Dominion War. Then Starfleet jumps in on the Battle Fleet idea. No thinking navy style you want different classes that do different tasks. Again using Star Trek history and the Dominion war. Star Fleet used a quick build of easy interchangable ship pieces to produce some ugly but needed ships. Using that history. Making 1 ship and a standard format simplifies the manufacturing process and allows Star Fleet to build more ship and a quicker rate.
@@jamesfoland5072 if its not on screen its not cannon and i don't consider it a resource to point at as proof of something
Those are some pretty nifty ship classes, but after seeing that episode, I was more interested in the Borg's new ship. Why wasn't it a basic geometric shape like most of their ships? Is it something they built or assimilated? And is it another fleet-killer like the cubes have been?
Fun fact; the "USS Excelsior NCC-2000" was decommissioned in 2320, over 80 years before this episode. The ship in this episode is the Excelsior-II Class "USS Excelsior NCC-42037".
It's funny seeing people still try to call LD non-canon; it's canon, deal with it people.
What happened at the end of Picard season 1 is that Starfleet Command panicked and double clicked to select all units of the same type.
Some lovely new ship designs. For once, I got no issue with any of the Fed designs. I do like the lines of the Reliant class, and the Luna class, but I'd definitely take an Akira too.
personally, i'd want one of those stargazer class ships. Love the designs when it comes to 4 engine symmetry.
Oh my beloved Akira returns. Such a gorgeous class. (YES i am nerd when Akira class came in question, love that ship so much) WE WANT MORE, WANT MORE!!! MAKE IT SO!!
Akira is love, Akira is life
Minor correction, but I believe the Excelsior shown is infact the Excelsior II model. A bit of the give away is that she's one of the biggest ships in the fleet. Its basically someone giving the Excelsior the BoP treatment but instead of scaling it to make it cheap they scaled it to make it more powerful and updated.
The lore-friendly explanation for the "copy and paste" fleet from Picard season 1 is that it was a dedicated tactical response force specifically deployed to act as an intimidating, muscular counter to the Romulan fleet. Kind of a rapid-reaction power projection force. Meanwhile, the more diverse fleet from season 2 was responding to a spatial anomaly with uncertain implications, necessitating a fleet with a broader range of capabilities.
IRL, a professor at the Naval War College noted that it did reflect the benefits of having a common naval architecture that can mass-produce militarily superior platforms.
But ultimately, the season 1 fleet was just a non-optimal creative decision. At least they thought better for season 2
Star Trek: Lower Decks isnt another reality, it is canon.
I found this fleet to be AMAZING!
Oh, I love me some Federation ship designs!
I love that they have looked back to Star Trek's past for both designs and names. Personally, I kind of hope, because of how the class is named, that every Ross-class Exploratory Cruiser is named after Starfleet heroes and important persons.
For example:
USS Sisko
USS Spock
USS Picard
USS Janeway
USS Kirk
USS Archer
USS Dax
USS O'Brien
USS Bashir
etc
Idk, I think it would be a nice touch :)
There's already a USS Archer if you look back at Star Trek Nemesis and they listed ships
USS The Sisko
@@Excalibur01 Perfect 🤣🤣🤣
USS Bashir? You mean the same Bashir that tried to destroy the Federation on more that one occasion? No thanks haha
@@pt29999 he gets an Oberth named after him then
the excelsior has sovereign nacelles. It is a refit of the class, plenty of people did them as near post-dom are. something like excelsior II or Chabot online.
We saw that in Lower Decks, which is called the Obena class
those nacelles are not sovereign style. sovereign bussards are only on the sides, not the front.
Didn't lower decks have one that was a cross between Excelsior-Class and Sovereign-Class?
- Edit: Just seen the reply.
@@Tuskin38 It is entirely possible that this IS the original Excelsior is now a training ship for cadets since Elnor was assigned to it and Raffi, a commander rank, is in command of it
@@Excalibur01 I never said it wasn't.
Sweet.
Love the "new" ships.
USS Excelsior: let's fucking gooooo!
Starfleet: Grandpa no! Sit down before you hurt yourself.
FRIGGIN loved this scene and the episode in general.
@The Templin Institute You all talk about 2 Sovereigns but there are up to 7 in scene when Stargazer explodes. Just look that scene :) 3 are on left side close ups, and possibly 4 on right side, I am sure about 3 on right also,1 may not be Sovereign...But for sure we got 6 Sovereigns!!!! :D :D :D
lower decks is prime timeline not a separate universe
they should do a community event where 3d modelers or sketch artists submit possible ship designs that would be featured in canon
Wow! I’m totally impressed! Live long and prosper , y’all!
Awesome video.
And so nice to see them actually providing a diverse fleet rather than a Copy+Paste rush job.
I dream of seeing an Odyssey Class by the end of the Season.
I believe that excelsior class cruiser might be the one from lower deck or a mix mass of part from the Star Trek online universe
It's the Excelsior-II Class "USS Excelsior NCC-42037".
So the Sovreign's still going into the 25th centaury? Awsome!
The stargazers class is actually the Sagan class named after Carl Sagan
I love Star Trek for its ships. I just realized that the new Mirada class now has some sort of deflector dish. It brings up a question of how the old Mirada class deflected particles in space.
I think the copy paste fleet was a result of mars being out of order at the time, they didn't have the facilities to make a larger variety.
in the episode Seven mention many ship of the Fleet are using technologies reverse engineer from the "Borg Cube "
It’s good to see the Excelsior again and all the ship classes we know. I hope the Enterprise E will return or maybe a new Enterprise
In Season 1 of Star Trek Picard, you heard the CNC stating to Picard, she was sending a wing his way. With all of the issues facing the Federation and Starfleet it makes sense to have 2 groups within Starfleet. One is the traditional exploration first and defense second and secondly a group separated into combat wings which are solely for the defense of the federation and act as a rapid deployment force. It makes sense that these should be made up of the same ships with some variance, but very tough.
I know this was complained about online that the Starfleet of the future did not look like the Starfleet of the past, but this does explain this. Starfleet may not at the time considered this anomaly to be a threat and only sent the defense second ships. Roddenberry would not have liked this concept and he had a higher ideal of the future but after Star Trek DS9 we really should not be complaining too much. I could be off maybe they just had budget issues thus essentially one ship was used, Naahhh.
I honestly had no problem with the fleet of Inquiry Class. You can see some minor variations of them. It made sense after the encounter and losses with the Borg and Dominion for production to streamline to use as many of the same components as possible. The worst thing you can do during crisis is to complicate your shipbuilding possess with 50 different classes. Riker states it's their most tactically capable ship which falls in line with this. It was stated during the show that the task force was being put together ahead of time, so it wasn't entirely a cobbled together emergency response. No one complained in the past when only a fleet of Romulan D'deridex class would show up.
Assuming that is the Excelsior class ship we all know, i mean it could be feasible that the nacelles were completely replaced with new ones. To use a contemporary example, the KC-135 Stratotanker of the Air Force had smaller engines than it does now and has been in service for nearly 65 years (1957-present) and were retrofitted with new engines twice during that timespan and they are still going today and not projected to be retired until 2030.
To me it doesn't seem like it's the old school Excelsior as it was based off the it. Maybe someone sat down with an Excelsior model and said "how can I make this modern?"
Overall, I'm glad they didn't use the same cookie cutter starships from the season finale. That was a big letdown for me too
Theoretically, it could be an Obena-class; though I personally like the idea of the OG NX/CC-2000 still around and kicking.
It's an Excelsior-II Class, the "USS Excelsior NCC-42037". The OG Excelsior was decommissioned in 2320.
You do realize that it makes sense in so many ways to have a standard ship design. If it works well and you can adapt it for many uses, parts are interchangeable, the production tooling is standard. In the same way the Navy does with the F 18 Hornet frame.
I don't think we're meant to infer that Raffi's U.S.S. Excelsior is the same one from the movies. It looks like an Obena-class to me, likely a recent build.
And yeah, seeing a much more varied Federation fleet, including STO ships, was total nerd porn. :P
except that while on earth, when assignments were being made, the NCC 2000 Excelsior was clearly shown in an image.
@@MJG206 As was the NCC-2893 Stargazer. They were historical plaques, not current assignments.
I will say, while Newer trek tends to have a multitude of complaints and issues in the first seasons, they seem to try to attend to those issues in later seasons. At least the complaints I had such as the one the video creator alluded to with the copy paste issue.
And they responded with a 'memberberry' feet.
@@Idazmi7 Is that an actual complaint or trying to make up something to complain about? Memberberry yeah is that bad, is it derivative of something we should all know or what?
@@DeathBYDesign666 I believe it refers to using "memberberries" to disguise a lack of substance, creativity, or craft in the writing and execution of a show or film. If you want to disguise a poor plot or bad dialogue, just throw in some ships and characters that fans will recognize from the "good ole days". Nostalgia boost +2.
Remember, it isn't just the presence of canon material (this is necessary for any good world building), but the use of nostalgia to cloak a poor product with warm fan feelings. I'm not saying that's what will happen in this season. This is just an explanation of the negative connotation of memberberries. Star Trek is certainly not the only franchise guilty of this.
@@Acrosurge
_"I believe it refers to using "memberberries" to disguise a lack of substance, creativity, or craft in the writing and execution of a show or film."_
Exactly that. All of the Star Trek shows with "Bad Robot" attached to the production have had woefully poor storytelling.
It's transparently obvious that they went out of their way to name every ship in that group after some major part of Star Trek lore - that wasn't the case with any other fleet in the franchise. They did this *right after* they got called out on the ludicrous 'copy-paste fleet' from before. The 'copy-paste fleet' was just one symptom of their complete lack of effort, and the new, diversified fleet only exists due to the criticism they got.
@@Acrosurge Well my reply to this is the inevitable, what else can they possibly do to please fans? They could have went with a post Dominian war fleet and been called out for that. This only ensures that they might as well do whatever they want because they will get complaints either way.
Captain James T. Kirk: "Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."
I was disappointed when I seen the Stargazer had a different registry number, but quickly forgave them when I seen the rest of the fleet... Also, I think the promo the aired before the credits featured a Steamrunner class, which I thought was pretty cool.
My theory is since it was the first (and named) ship of its (new) class, they gave it a new registry and went without any dashed letters. I mean, "The Stargazer-B, first ship of her class", doesn't have the same feel, aye?
Plenty of ships don't get A, B, C after their registries. Ships of notable history might get that honour.
The copy and paste fleet was totally Riker remembering the Picard maneuver and extrapolating independently. In his interaction, he is definitely working his poker side.
Uh, you're saying that while Riker was talking to the romulan person he was having his ship do multiple warp leap things...enough to make it seem like there's an entire fleet. Not likely but more realistic than the actual plot. Good job.
@@drewjackson3858 What he did was the mirror thing, which Picard had done; Riker learnt from the best. And Riker is a total bluffer, and plays poker from a position of strength when dealt a weak hand.
These are mostly STO ship designs. STO takes place primary in the 25th century, so this makes sense. If they continue making these ships, there will be some interesting looking ships shown on screen
I always understood that letters after hull numbers are reserved for legacy ships that distinguish themselves through history, like the Enterprise, or radical refits, like the Discovery, after a thousand years worth of upgrades (it's the same hull, after all).
The reuse of names, even distinguished names, doesn't merit keeping the hull number. This far, I only remember the Enterprise receiving that honor. The defiant didn't in DS9.
I would have loved to see a few defiant class ships.
In my opinion the physical models from TNG shown at 2:28 look so much more realistic than any of the modern CGI work.
A lot of lore behind the names of these classes for an alternate universe that until now has shown complete contempt for the franchise.
Sagan class (stargazer) Resolute class (Excelisor) Ross class (Galaxy w/sovereign deflector) and Garagin class (bottom left) and Southerland class (nebula veriant)
Starfleet ships that manage to avoid rapid unplanned disassembly for long periods of time get refurbished and retrofit with state-of-the-art systems every 10-20 years. That might be the Excelsior, but there is probably very little of the original Excelsior left in its present form.
I’m willing to be that that Excelsior class ship is the new Excelsior like class seen in lower decks
Then you'd lose the bet; it's an Excelsior-II Class, the USS Excelsior NCC-42037.
You mention that the new Stargazer has a new registry. But, its based on the old one. The Constellation Class Stargazer was NCC-2893 while the New Stargazer is NCC-82893. Very cute.