Just called my dealership for this exact issue for my GR86, and they could charge me a diagnostic fee for $175 to see if there are silicone bits in my oil pickup, and if they found any they wouldn't charge me, and if they didn't find any bits I would be charged. I was transferred to finance and it would void my warranty if I did it myself, and he recommended to just drive the car like I stole it and if it blows up, they will replace it. It seems it's going to take some time until Toyota recognizes this as an issue.
Good info! I think every dealer is going to be different until Toyota puts out something official (if/when). Your dealer seems pretty reasonable, I've heard of much worse "offers" for preventitive checking of the oil pickup tube. Glad I included the disclaimer about warranty implications with the DIY approach, I figured that might be the case with some dealers.
For the love of God do not drive the car like you stole it... thats asking for the warranty to be voided. They could potentially site it as vehicular abuse and deny your claim. For the time being just drive it normal with the occasional spirited drive.
@@dr.magnanimous8973 Going to a track is different than driving it like you stole it. The car isn't meant to perform more than it can handle stock. That's what rev limiters are for. Drive it like you stole it, bang the rev limiter all the time. When it goes bad, make them fix it. You drove it on public streets like a maniac. As you should. Its a sports car. Its going to depreciate. You paid for the whole speedometer, user the whole speedometer. You paid for the whole warranty, use the whole warranty.
Very clear and concise. This should help all owners be confident to do this themselves if the dealer route fails. It would really be a shame to lose such a great car for something so simple.
Really well done Justin. Consider forwarding your you tube to grassroots Motorsports and Road and Track as those groups are the media leaders. You are presenting good science. Thank you
@@TheBTRGarage Jalopnik and The Drive have been heavily covering this issue, focused on the guy who actually spun a bearing and Toyota denied his warranty claim (they have since caved :)) - shoot them a link to this video, I am sure they would make a post!
Got into an article on TheDrive today! www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/how-to-spot-and-fix-the-oil-clogging-issue-thats-killing-2022-toyota-gr86-engines
Great video. Thank you. This issue has put a hard stop on my purchase. Literally was going today to put down a deposit on an order. Pisses me off since I really wanted to own this car but since it was a Gen 1 issue as well it appears that Subaru / Toyota doesn’t consider it a significant issue. Pathetic!
You and a LOT of potential buyers I'd say. Those that have heard about it at least. I doubt any Toyota/Subaru sales person would even know about it yet and if they do I'm pretty sure they're not going to tell you about it and to wait until it's sorted.
Called my dealer yesterday about the issue, due to having bits of rtv on my dip stick, the service advisor sounded concerned with he hasn’t dealt with the issue from other 86 owners. But knowing my luck I’m pretty sure my has some issue with the rtv since I’m the first gr86 they sold. We’ll see how it goes
Best of luck, hopefully it is a non-issue. Outside of the blown engine, it is just a lot of anecdotal findings like mine, but it sure seems like it is heading in the direction of wide spread.
@@tear728 they only did a visual multipoint inspection and claimed there’s nothing wrong with it as of right now so if it blows (knock on wood it don’t) I’m bringing it right back to them.
Pretty significant oversight if this affects all cars and not just an unfortunate batch. Hopefully Toyota/Subaru figure out how widespread this is quickly
...but from the sounds of it...the dealer will only do a research pull of the oil pan and may charge the customer for the time....if there is silicone there, they (the dealer) might be able to make it a warranty claim; however, if there is no silicone, it would all be on the owner of the car as "no action necessary" from the dealer's perspective....
It's a developing situation for sure. Toyota will be gathering data to weigh the risk between letting it ride and facing warranty claims (potential loss of $), or issuing a recall of sorts to take preventitive action (potential savings of $). That's my guess anyways...
Yea, I too think there are silicone bits coming from other places. Cleaning up the pan will reduce the oil pickup mess, but probably not eliminate it all together.
@@lastname-Nm yes, Toyota uses gaskets, and if they use sealant it is called FIPG, and watched a Video from care care nut ( A Toyota master tech who is super knowledgeable). He said FIPG would not cause problems. It’s Subaru shit. I have a gr86 coming in a couple days. In really wish Toyota made the engine
I see someone’s been paying attention to the forums. My 2014 died because someone had opened parts of the engine at one point and RTV they put on had gotten into the pickup.
There are five mesh screens, not just one. If one of them is covered, there may be a slight pressure drop, but it should not be a major problem because oil can be sucked in from the other four screens. I am skeptical about it causing the engine to blow out. I believe the pickup tube structure with multiple screens present is an improvement from Mk1, one of some KAIZEN by Toyoyta/Subaru.
as someone who just ordered a brz this is very upsetting if im spending 35k out the door i want piece of mind that im getting a good reliable car. Now i dont even know what to do, since I won’t be able to enjoy the car until I know this won’t be an issue, and im sure the dealer isnt going to just check the pan for free.
As I've probably mentioned elsewhere, I wouldn't sweat it too much. The chances of a catastrophic failure are still very slim, based on what is currently known. It's always good to be aware and cautious though, of things like this 👍
@@TheBTRGarage Im sure it is low, but even still I dont want my engine oil pickup tube blocked at all even if it never causes failure… Do you think subaru would charge an arm and a leg to just reseal the oil pan properly once the car arrives at the dealership?
Yea, I totally understand where you're coming from, tough situation. Cost is going to depend on the dealer. One guy in comments here said his dealer would inspect for $175, if RTV found in pickup, they'd fix for free, otherwise out $175. Another I heard had to pay $700 for the repair, so it's hard to know for sure, unfortunately.
Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. Lmao. But in all seriousness it really does suck that I feel the best approach is to just wait it out, probably good to just wait for the 3rd/last gen after they fix the common problems.
Mazda Miata? (If a light weight rwd platform is your car of choice). I love the design of this new GR/BRZ but this would be a deal breaker for me. I have way too much O.C.D.
Having this looked into on Thursday for my car as well as some recall for the telematics system. Mine is a brz so not sure if the gr86 has the same issue. Also wanted to say you did I batter job than most dealerships would. I fear when dealerships work on my car. I was a mechanic for a long time and saw some crazy stuff go on at the dealership. 😅
*My guess is this will likely be a non-issue for most owners, although I understand the concern. Again, contact your dealer first, you should not have to DIY this process unless you understand the risks.* *As mentioned in the video, if you are concerned your car may have this particular issue with silicone in the oil pickup, contact your dealer first! DIY should be the last resort as it may have negative warranty implications. This process also applies to previous gen 86 cars, likely out of warranty, which is a big reason I created it.*
Wow! admired your bravery and handy working on a brand new car like that. I'm curious as to when you sealed the pan back after the clean-up. How do you ensure that the RTV sealant you put on will not cause the same issue?
There is NO way I would be doing this myself, and why should I? It is a prick of a job removing headers and the sump, I've done it several times on my car. Has to be a minimum three hour job from start to finish and that's with the right equipment and lift like you, and I. have, and no unexpected issues that always pop up[. Especially when there should be absolutely no need to. Where is the silicone coming from and how would anyone know when it's going to stop. The silicone you removed could be only a small part of what's circulating in the engine and could potentially lead to a catastrophic engine failure. I'm amazed that Toyota gave you the OK to DIY this job without it voiding your warranty should oil starvation be a future issue.
2/23: My 2014 BRZ has check engine and traction lights on and is throwing POOOB code. Mechanic replaced cam sensors without any effect. He told me about RTV getting into cam gears and is expensive to fix. Did an engine flush and soon after check engine and traction lights went off for a week. Engine scans were clean. Then the lights have come on again. Apparently bits of RTV can get stuck in the complex cam gear and cause interference with oil pressure (which regulates timing) and then throws the error code. May try removing oil pan and cleaning internal filters. What a bad surprise. Nothing is actually broken.
If you happened to have an articulating bore scope, you can run it through the drain plug for inspection. If it's severly blocked, then worry about taking the whole thing apart.
In other videos I saw the guys put new silicone on the oil pan instead of applying it directly on the engine, I guess it doesn't really make a difference. Will do the same as you did with droping the oil pan during the 1st oil changes to get some of that silicone out. Your video is over a year old. Did you drop the pan on a 2nd/3rd occasion and still found RTV in the pickup tube? Thanks for the video.
Yea it doesn't matter which side you put the new silicone on. I did drop the pan a second time and put it on the pan first that time. On the 2nd check there was almost no RTV in the pickup. I'll be pulling it a 3rd time here soon to install an oil pan baffle. ruclips.net/video/T8ULaURZQ1w/видео.htmlsi=srfo0w-ngfS9ictV
Apply silicone then torque to 80% wait RTV silicone to further set for a day then fully torque . Actually way too much from the factory ... you can even apply slightly thinner width lining too all smash up once torque slightly .
Unreal that we have to do this to our brand new cars. Is the timing cover also an issue? I've seen mention of rtv from the timing cover also leading to this issue. I'm new to these cars and this platform, sorry if that's a dumb question. 🙃
When I inspected my GR86 you can see RTV spilling out all around the timing cover. But, I don't know what it looks like inside. I haven't personally heard that to be an issue that leads to any kind of failures.
Days ago reddit post that one 22 GR86 (11Kmile)had gasket blown due to track day use...within warranty btw and the dealer asking for 11K...maybe that case was cause by this problem shown in the video. glad that TOYOTA intervene and work things out that every body is happy now(except that dealer maybe)
I would imagine once this is cleaned up, it should be good for a while. Unless the RTV is coming from somewhere else higher in the engine (timing cover or something) ☹️
@@TheBTRGarage the amount you removed at 4000 miles is concerning. Maybe not annually but at minimum once every few years. I hope Toyota and Subaru can waive shop labor and fees to get it cleaned and inspected at least once during its warrantied life.
Good video, unfortunately Subaru has a long history of terrible quality control and very poor engine design. In my experience they either blow up at 60k or run for over 200k. Most all of them develop large oil leaks during their lifetime, which usually requires pulling the engine to fix. Subaru is notorious about using silicone to seal with instead of gaskets and that stuff ends up in your oil pan waiting destroy the engine. I like the little car and all it needs is a Toyota engine to make it worth purchasing.
Just saw a video of a guy who was on his first lap on a track, hardly pushing the engine yet, only a few minutes in, and it killed itself, and this issue is suspected to be the culprit. Toyota refused their warranty because they were on a track at the time...
Yea, I saw that too, whole situation sucks. I'm still not convinced RTV is the root cause, even after a handful of engine failures. There are countless people (like me) who had RTV in the pickup tube, thousands of miles and many many track days and races, but have had 0 issues. Seems more and more likely it's typical crappy boxer engine design and lack of oiling, too low oil, etc. The warranty refusal has to be infuriating for the people with engine failures, feel bad for them 😕
@@TheBTRGarage that’s awesome! I’d keep rolling with a few of these videos even if they are just taking about it. They’ll get good views. Let’s see more of those E36 videos 🏁🏁🏁
unfortunaly there is alot more than just the oil pan sealed from the factory with RTV on these engines. it was never a big deal on older engines as the pickup tube was alot bigger. an anaerobic sealant like permatex 51845 should be used instead of RTV where ever possible. Anaerobic only cures where it is clamped between 2 machined surfaces. any extra just oozes out and mixes with the oil and is drained out next oil change. only downside to anaerobic is it cant be use on sheet metal stuff like stamped steel oil pans- for those you still need RTV. but anything machined like the timing cover, block halves, aluminum oil pans, oil pump etc anaerobic works flawless with zero chance of using too much.
Great video mate. Do you reckon that Toyota/Subaru would have been better off using a cork/fibrous gasket, instead of the factory RTV that is causing these issues that you have shown in your video? What’s to say that some of the new RTV you have applied to the oil pan squeezes out like before and makes it way back up into the oil pick up screen again? Perhaps, maybe Toyota/Subaru were a little heavy on applying the RTV sealant in the first place that have caused these quality issues. It seems like a serious quality issue in the factory that requires addressing on getting the correct amount of RTV applied in the factory to the oil pan in the first place to the FA24D engine. Or change the process all together to eliminate the risk of FOD entering the oil pick up screen and engine in the first place. This has to be a major Correction Action that should be addressed immediately by the companies. Would like to know your thoughts? Happy motoring. Nick.
Thanks! A gasket would have eliminated any potential RTV scraps coming from the oil pan area. However, I do think RTV scraps are coming from other parts of the engine where they use RTV to seal a component (ie: the timing cover). So, even if the oil pan RTV was a non-issue, there is still a chance the oil pickup could be seeing RTV from other areas. My new RTV sealant job is not full proof for sure, there is of course still a chance that bits of that break off into the pan. But it's very hard to know for sure. I will take the pan off again at my next oil change and see if we still have any RTV scraps in the pickup.
I wouldn't sweat it too much. While the issue has blown up on the internet due to a small amount of failures + warranty denial, I don't think it will be an issue for most people. But, that's just my guess, only time will tell :)
@@TheBTRGarage hey Justin. Do you think it won’t be an issue for most because Toyota already caught the problem and switched to a new brand of silicon?
@@shaneh734 While it might look like a bad problem, there is not yet a lot of evidence that it is specifically causing engine issues/failures. We've seen a few, but in the big picture that's not a big deal, yet.
@@TheBTRGarage gulf states Toyota really dropped the ball on this, if they had just fixed it without kicking up a fuss I doubt it would have so many purchasers and potential purchasers lose confidence in the car. Wonder if Toyota themselves will come down on gulf states over it. Keep reading so many people cancelling their orders over this
hopefully.. my '23 will be here in Oct. I only plan to do 17x9 arc8, 245/40 PS4S & camber/crash bolts. If the motor goes because of this silicon issue, it'll get replaced.. but the hassle of that process will always be on my mind.. big sighs......
My opinion is yes, which is why I recommended (a couple times) to contact your dealer first. This video is for those that may choose to DIY, or get pushback from dealers, or have an older gen out of warranty.
Great video! I am waiting a 86 now.Hopefully the dealer can take care of it.I also want to know the tool that you leaving the car up.Can I use it in my own garage ?
Wow. Well detailed video. Do you think they resolved this problem for all 2023 models? Or, is it possible that some initial 2023 models have this same problem?
Thanks! It's really impossible for us to know if anything changed for the 2023 models. All we can hope is that this whole situation brings to light any potential issues and Toyota/Subaru look into making a change.
It’s been documented in the early ‘23s on Facebook recently in the forums there… few different 23’s with less than 1000 on the clock that have blown up and had rtv in the pickup. There’s a blue ‘23 trueno that had 400 miles on it that comes to mind most recently
Toyota/Subaru are starting to replace some blown 22 engines with this same issue. Soon they will be forced to recall these cars under warranty. Thankfully for them, they haven't been able to sell enough of them (because covid era BS) and are still on time to fix this issue before 2023 models start rolling out of the factory.
my gr86 has not been built yet, i hope toyota will solve this Subaru problem, although i don't think they can do much about it because it is physiological of subaru engine construction Sorry about my English , this is from Google translate:p
This is a ridiculous design flaw... I can't believe Toyota approved this. I regret my sti, I wont regret NOT getting this one. A Cayman looks affordable now.
Are you using a standard length quickjack? If so I'd be curious if you could show where exactly along the pinch rail you are lifting from. I was surprised mine didn't reach the lift point notches for such a small car. thanks!
The RTV I used sets up pretty quickly and says ready to use after 1 minute, so it just depends on the RTV you use. I reinstalled the oil pan and let it sit overnight before filling with oil the first time I did this. The second I did it, just recently, I put oil back in after a couple hours just to be safe.
Why cant they just use a gasket? If it makes the car work better i dont get it. Also how do you know the rtv you just put on didn’t do the exact same thing from factory??? Its hard for me to understand why a subaru cant use a gasket for $40 extra as an option.
We're still in the anecdotal evidence stage I think, but to already have at least one known failure is not very promising. Hopefully it's a non-issue for future builds, mine is a 12/21 car.
@@TheBTRGarage yea man for sho! im at about 700miles now and I do want to wait and see if Toyota will issue a TSB to offer this at no cost, since its a known issue, and can lead to oil starvation > blown motor. Im sure inspecting an oil pan, and cleaning is alot cheaper than replacing the whole motor 😅 Time will tell!
Are there any early indicators that would suspect there is silicone buildup? The car recently came back from a Texas roadtrip so wondering if now is a good time to check. Ie: silicone bits in oil during an oil change etc or anything else that would help myself make a decision to DIY it. Unfortunately my dealer is not putting it under warranty and with an insane cost just to check (quoted about $800).
Some have seen RTV on the dipstick. If you change the oil yourself you could strain it through a filter to see if anything was in the pan. My opinion is that most cars will be fine just letting it be, but I understand wanting to be preventative.
@@TheBTRGarage makes sense! yeah definitely just want to prevent any other things that can go wrong on it 😂 Loved the vid -- very clear cut, if I will be doing it, I'll be following the vid here 🔥
Right! That said, it is possible that the RTV chunks came from other places where the RTV is used (ie: timing cover). Although they could use gaskets there as well I suppose.
Coming soon! I'll be doing my next oil change after this weekend's track and autox events. We'll drop the pan and see if any more RTV accumulated in the pickup 👍
at 4:26 if I see correctly the oil pickup tube has holes on the bottom AND on two sides at least (there is a yellow piece of something on the right side), so even if the bottom is partially clogged as shown the oil should flow throught the sides of the strainer and compensate. Of course not ideal but am I wrong ?
Good eye! You are right and I came to the same conclusion. I think this is part of the improved design over previous gen, where it was just a single flat screen filter. So, even if RTV gets gunked up on the "top" filter screen, there are still 4 (not 2) screens on the sides where oil can pass through. Tomorrow I'm releasing a video where I talk about exactly this, with diagrams and things, stay tuned!
That is what I thought. My BRZ hopefully gets delivered by the end of September here in Australia. Have just heard of this RTV issue. I think an occasional look with an inspection camera, via the sump plug may be in order if that is at all possible? What do you think?
Have some scoring on the inside sealing side of the engine. Will this be an issue? I’m thinking the RTV will fill any gaps candidly (Permatex Ultra Grey).
Oil pressure gauge would be the ideal thing to have, but you would have to install that manually. Otherwise yes, it is kind of a silent assassin ☹️ Avoiding high revving or extended high RPM's is the other way to play it safe, but that kind of defeats the whole purpose of the car.
@@TheBTRGarage hopefully but as you said I’m gonna contact the dealer to see if they can take a look at it. Especially since we been getting 90 degree heat.
They use that stuff everywhere. Just cleaning the oil pan is not going to fix this problem. Higher torque areas and sharper edge connections will be a problem. I love my 2022 BRZ and now I feel like I've tripped a land mine. I'm not going to pay a penny for any 20 year old's engineering mistake!
The only thing I hope for from that fact is that thr problem can't last forever. If other parts of the engine have rtv coming off. We'll need to drop the oan and check for clogs in thr pickup a few times but Id assume that after a while the problem will go away because the excess rtv will eventually all work it's way out. Just wonder how much and how long?
@@TheBTRGarage ohhh... Interesting. I placed an order for a GR86 last week. Won't be available for a few months. Hopefully the issue is either resolved from the factory by that time or they don't need more than a couple pan drops before the problem goes away.
Subaru desperately need to redesign the oil pickup so it has a larger primary screen, maybe on the bottom, that way a few pieces of silicone will have little affect. Sticking with small easily clogged primary filter screen combined with quite extensive use of silicone sealing is a recipe for failure. Smacks of incompetence by whom ever signed off on this from Subaru Engineering.
I don't think so, if you compare the large beads that I took off to what I applied, I tried to make it much less. That said, I don't think the oil pan seal is the only place RTV is coming from, unfortunately. I plan to open it back up at my next oil change to see what happens.
I can't figure out why Toyota is willing to hurt their reputation with this stuff over TWO generations. I'd make a comment about Subaru, but ICE problems + Subaru = SNAFU.
If you doesn’t report the RTV and everyone fixes before the engine detonated. It will be no recalls because all of you fix it already as s upgrade sealant.
Can someone explain to me why the hell subaru can’t use an oil pan gasket? It isn’t new technology all of my 90s BMWs use oil pan gaskets, sure they leak over time but I don’t have to worry about silicone clogging my pick up tube.
Nope :) There must be some reason for no gasket...cost? ease of replacement? (no defintely not that), one less part for the parts catalog? better sealing compared to a gasket? (maybe)...otherwise I dunno...
@@TheBTRGarage Peeling silicone off is easier than peeling off a rubber gasket? Took me half an hour to replace the valve cover gasket on my m52, cost me $23 for an OEM part, now is it less efficient in the long term yes, but again I restate I dont have to worry about my oil pick up being clogged by a shitty application of silicone, and I by far expect a hell of a lot more from a Japanese manufacturer.
@@TheBTRGarage it's definetly cost.. One robot can slap a bead of RTV on a lot faster an easier than applying a gasket. If only the programmed the robot properly 🙄
Thanks! The idea is a thinner bead will not break off like the heavy factory bead. That said, the RTV is also coming from other parts of the engine, like the timing cover. Check out my follow up video where I inspected the oil pickup a 2nd time (spoiler, there was almost nothing in it).
@@TheBTRGarage Thanks for the reply. I ended up seeing the follow up video after I commented. I feel your channel should be more popular than it is. Thanks for all the work you do.
Is this a Subaru engine except the ds4 part. The brz should also be affected right. How about the 2.4 l engine in the wex. 37 K for a used brz on autotrade.
I'm not aware of anyone that has opened up a 2023 model yet to check. My guess it tbey too would have RTV in the pickup after a period of use. Whether or not that actually causes any problem is still low risk, in my opinion.
Header bolts to block = 22ft.lbs Header to overpipe = 32ft.lbs Exhaust spring bolts I just tighten until they bottom out Those are the only things you need to remove to get the header off.
Is this whole process a one time fix?? Or does this need to be done at every oil change interval? I feel like that is something pretty important to know
It is unknown yet at this time. Once I do my next oil change I am going to drop the pan again and see what it looks like, which should answer the question.
Does this apply to all the car ? I went and check with a flexible camera from the drain plug and I didn't see any silicone ridge on all the side of the oil pan. Got my BRZ on December and racked 40000km so far, should I be worried ?
I have a 2022 BRZ and am really p*ssed this is happening. I had a '96 Corvette that had the same issue. And now, a Subaru. Question: If you go through what you've just done, then what's to stop this issue happening again as you've removed the silicone and put on a new bead?
This process will likely only reduce the chance of it happening again. I think RTV is coming from other places as well, like the timing chain cover. But, that's just my guess.
@@TheBTRGarage I have such higher expectations from a company like Subaru. Just plain angry. Does anybody know how to make a decent car that doesn't have issues out the gate?
So is the excess rtv just around the oil pan? For what i have been researching it can be anywhere in the engine falling into the pan and getting sucked in..
There are a couple other places where RTV could break off and fall into the pan. The timing cover is one, the pan is just the easiest thing to see and do anything about.
@@TheBTRGarage gotcha, its gonna be interesting to see how all this pans out, am curious to see what position toyota takes into this matter. To be honest this is one of the reasons i went miata instead Of brz but i love the brz too.
I can't possibly answer that. Each dealer will treat this situation differently and since it's a developing situation, I'm going to bet most of them will not do anything about it, unless you want to pay.
is there a Fumoto valve in your (near) future? Yes, I'm aware of the potential negatives, but having a much more controlled oil stream when draining seems benefit enough and no torque wrench needed afterwards...glad you caught it when you did...what did your dealer say (if you asked?) about warranty repercussions? all of the silicone is just from their assembly process???
I may add a Fumoto valve, not on my short list though. They are nice, I have one on my truck and have never had issues. I have not asked my dealer yet, I wanted get the video done for those who might get pushback from their own dealers and need to DIY. Plus, for the older gen cars since it's the same process. The silicone is just from the assembly process, correct. It is all done by machines, and maybe this is all normal and within the Toyota build specifications, but it can clearly have negative consequences in some cases.
Just called my dealership for this exact issue for my GR86, and they could charge me a diagnostic fee for $175 to see if there are silicone bits in my oil pickup, and if they found any they wouldn't charge me, and if they didn't find any bits I would be charged. I was transferred to finance and it would void my warranty if I did it myself, and he recommended to just drive the car like I stole it and if it blows up, they will replace it. It seems it's going to take some time until Toyota recognizes this as an issue.
Good info! I think every dealer is going to be different until Toyota puts out something official (if/when). Your dealer seems pretty reasonable, I've heard of much worse "offers" for preventitive checking of the oil pickup tube. Glad I included the disclaimer about warranty implications with the DIY approach, I figured that might be the case with some dealers.
For the love of God do not drive the car like you stole it... thats asking for the warranty to be voided. They could potentially site it as vehicular abuse and deny your claim. For the time being just drive it normal with the occasional spirited drive.
@@joelsalazar3627 driving a car hard is not grounds for a voided warranty unless maintenance is proven to be neglected. stop spreading misinformation.
$175 is well worth it for peace of mind IMO
@@dr.magnanimous8973 Going to a track is different than driving it like you stole it.
The car isn't meant to perform more than it can handle stock. That's what rev limiters are for.
Drive it like you stole it, bang the rev limiter all the time.
When it goes bad, make them fix it. You drove it on public streets like a maniac.
As you should. Its a sports car. Its going to depreciate. You paid for the whole speedometer, user the whole speedometer. You paid for the whole warranty, use the whole warranty.
Very clear and concise. This should help all owners be confident to do this themselves if the dealer route fails. It would really be a shame to lose such a great car for something so simple.
Unfortunately this isn't something most ppl can do themselves. Toyota and Subaru needs a recall.
@@Stigmaru they most definitely do need a recall I agree buy I'm just saying for those who are worried this video helps alot
@@Stigmaru yes they do, this is unfortunate and very easy to avoid, especially from toyota and subaru...
Really well done Justin. Consider forwarding your you tube to grassroots Motorsports and Road and Track as those groups are the media leaders. You are presenting good science. Thank you
Thanks! I might do that.
@@TheBTRGarage Jalopnik and The Drive have been heavily covering this issue, focused on the guy who actually spun a bearing and Toyota denied his warranty claim (they have since caved :)) - shoot them a link to this video, I am sure they would make a post!
Got into an article on TheDrive today!
www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/how-to-spot-and-fix-the-oil-clogging-issue-thats-killing-2022-toyota-gr86-engines
Great video. Thank you. This issue has put a hard stop on my purchase. Literally was going today to put down a deposit on an order. Pisses me off since I really wanted to own this car but since it was a Gen 1 issue as well it appears that Subaru / Toyota doesn’t consider it a significant issue. Pathetic!
You and a LOT of potential buyers I'd say. Those that have heard about it at least. I doubt any Toyota/Subaru sales person would even know about it yet and if they do I'm pretty sure they're not going to tell you about it and to wait until it's sorted.
Called my dealer yesterday about the issue, due to having bits of rtv on my dip stick, the service advisor sounded concerned with he hasn’t dealt with the issue from other 86 owners. But knowing my luck I’m pretty sure my has some issue with the rtv since I’m the first gr86 they sold. We’ll see how it goes
Best of luck, hopefully it is a non-issue. Outside of the blown engine, it is just a lot of anecdotal findings like mine, but it sure seems like it is heading in the direction of wide spread.
Did your dealer do anything yet? Asking because I have the same issue and am hoping they don't try to pull a fast one
@@tear728 they only did a visual multipoint inspection and claimed there’s nothing wrong with it as of right now so if it blows (knock on wood it don’t) I’m bringing it right back to them.
Perfectly timed video. With the recent warranty denial this is crucial
Pretty significant oversight if this affects all cars and not just an unfortunate batch. Hopefully Toyota/Subaru figure out how widespread this is quickly
...but from the sounds of it...the dealer will only do a research pull of the oil pan and may charge the customer for the time....if there is silicone there, they (the dealer) might be able to make it a warranty claim; however, if there is no silicone, it would all be on the owner of the car as "no action necessary" from the dealer's perspective....
It's a developing situation for sure. Toyota will be gathering data to weigh the risk between letting it ride and facing warranty claims (potential loss of $), or issuing a recall of sorts to take preventitive action (potential savings of $). That's my guess anyways...
@@TheBTRGarage This seems to be happening to almost everyone who's popped it open so far.
Whoa! This is really bad. They need to get this sorted out ASAP! Excellent video, Justin.
The two different colored silicone makes me believe it's not just from the oil pan. Really makes me want to hold off on getting a gr86.
Yea, I too think there are silicone bits coming from other places. Cleaning up the pan will reduce the oil pickup mess, but probably not eliminate it all together.
I’m waiting too. It’s not just the oil pan, makes me wonder if Toyota has a different RTV or assembly process.
@@lastname-Nm yes, Toyota uses gaskets, and if they use sealant it is called FIPG, and watched a Video from care care nut ( A Toyota master tech who is super knowledgeable). He said FIPG would not cause problems. It’s Subaru shit. I have a gr86 coming in a couple days. In really wish Toyota made the engine
I see someone’s been paying attention to the forums.
My 2014 died because someone had opened parts of the engine at one point and RTV they put on had gotten into the pickup.
There are five mesh screens, not just one.
If one of them is covered, there may be a slight pressure drop,
but it should not be a major problem because oil can be sucked in from the other four screens.
I am skeptical about it causing the engine to blow out.
I believe the pickup tube structure with multiple screens present is an improvement from Mk1, one of some KAIZEN by Toyoyta/Subaru.
Yep, that is exactly my thought. See the video I just published this morning, I show the different mesh screens and how it (appears) to work.
@@TheBTRGarage Checked out your new post. Thanks for sharing the great videos.
as someone who just ordered a brz this is very upsetting
if im spending 35k out the door i want piece of mind that im getting a good reliable car. Now i dont even know what to do, since I won’t be able to enjoy the car until I know this won’t be an issue, and im sure the dealer isnt going to just check the pan for free.
As I've probably mentioned elsewhere, I wouldn't sweat it too much. The chances of a catastrophic failure are still very slim, based on what is currently known. It's always good to be aware and cautious though, of things like this 👍
@@TheBTRGarage Im sure it is low, but even still I dont want my engine oil pickup tube blocked at all even if it never causes failure…
Do you think subaru would charge an arm and a leg to just reseal the oil pan properly once the car arrives at the dealership?
Yea, I totally understand where you're coming from, tough situation.
Cost is going to depend on the dealer. One guy in comments here said his dealer would inspect for $175, if RTV found in pickup, they'd fix for free, otherwise out $175. Another I heard had to pay $700 for the repair, so it's hard to know for sure, unfortunately.
Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. Lmao. But in all seriousness it really does suck that I feel the best approach is to just wait it out, probably good to just wait for the 3rd/last gen after they fix the common problems.
Mazda Miata? (If a light weight rwd platform is your car of choice). I love the design of this new GR/BRZ but this would be a deal breaker for me. I have way too much O.C.D.
Having this looked into on Thursday for my car as well as some recall for the telematics system. Mine is a brz so not sure if the gr86 has the same issue. Also wanted to say you did I batter job than most dealerships would. I fear when dealerships work on my car. I was a mechanic for a long time and saw some crazy stuff go on at the dealership. 😅
Thanks! Definitely good to have it looked into if just for the piece of mind.
I hope this develops into a recall. There's absolutely no reason owners should have to do this.
They definitely shouldn't. I don't think it will result in a recall though, unfortunately.
*My guess is this will likely be a non-issue for most owners, although I understand the concern. Again, contact your dealer first, you should not have to DIY this process unless you understand the risks.*
*As mentioned in the video, if you are concerned your car may have this particular issue with silicone in the oil pickup, contact your dealer first! DIY should be the last resort as it may have negative warranty implications. This process also applies to previous gen 86 cars, likely out of warranty, which is a big reason I created it.*
Wow! admired your bravery and handy working on a brand new car like that. I'm curious as to when you sealed the pan back after the clean-up. How do you ensure that the RTV sealant you put on will not cause the same issue?
@@nikornvittulananda2860 Hopefully applying a smaller bead of gasket reduces the risk. That's about all you can do.
The tech at the dealer will probably slap too much rtv on again when they reseal it.
@@TheBTRGarage Would it be an option to replace the RTV with a solid gasket?
There is NO way I would be doing this myself, and why should I? It is a prick of a job removing headers and the sump, I've done it several times on my car. Has to be a minimum three hour job from start to finish and that's with the right equipment and lift like you, and I. have, and no unexpected issues that always pop up[. Especially when there should be absolutely no need to. Where is the silicone coming from and how would anyone know when it's going to stop. The silicone you removed could be only a small part of what's circulating in the engine and could potentially lead to a catastrophic engine failure. I'm amazed that Toyota gave you the OK to DIY this job without it voiding your warranty should oil starvation be a future issue.
2/23: My 2014 BRZ has check engine and traction lights on and is throwing POOOB code. Mechanic replaced cam sensors without any effect. He told me about RTV getting into cam gears and is expensive to fix. Did an engine flush and soon after check engine and traction lights went off for a week. Engine scans were clean. Then the lights have come on again. Apparently bits of RTV can get stuck in the complex cam gear and cause interference with oil pressure (which regulates timing) and then throws the error code. May try removing oil pan and cleaning internal filters. What a bad surprise. Nothing is actually broken.
If you happened to have an articulating bore scope, you can run it through the drain plug for inspection. If it's severly blocked, then worry about taking the whole thing apart.
People have tried that, you can't see in to the pickup as it is too close to the oil pan, unfortunately.
In other videos I saw the guys put new silicone on the oil pan instead of applying it directly on the engine, I guess it doesn't really make a difference. Will do the same as you did with droping the oil pan during the 1st oil changes to get some of that silicone out. Your video is over a year old. Did you drop the pan on a 2nd/3rd occasion and still found RTV in the pickup tube? Thanks for the video.
Yea it doesn't matter which side you put the new silicone on. I did drop the pan a second time and put it on the pan first that time. On the 2nd check there was almost no RTV in the pickup. I'll be pulling it a 3rd time here soon to install an oil pan baffle.
ruclips.net/video/T8ULaURZQ1w/видео.htmlsi=srfo0w-ngfS9ictV
Apply silicone then torque to 80% wait RTV silicone to further set for a day then fully torque . Actually way too much from the factory ... you can even apply slightly thinner width lining too all smash up once torque slightly .
thank you for this, i made an appointment for the brz on saturday :) hopefully i can trust them to actually do it
Best of luck! That's the right approach.
Unreal that we have to do this to our brand new cars.
Is the timing cover also an issue? I've seen mention of rtv from the timing cover also leading to this issue. I'm new to these cars and this platform, sorry if that's a dumb question. 🙃
When I inspected my GR86 you can see RTV spilling out all around the timing cover. But, I don't know what it looks like inside. I haven't personally heard that to be an issue that leads to any kind of failures.
Days ago reddit post that one 22 GR86 (11Kmile)had gasket blown due to track day use...within warranty btw and the dealer asking for 11K...maybe that case was cause by this problem shown in the video.
glad that TOYOTA intervene and work things out that every body is happy now(except that dealer maybe)
Yep, I heard about that. I don't even think it was track day use, just autocross practice. Glad it resolved properly though.
I guess it's gonna be an annual oil pick up cleaning for me 😮💨
I would imagine once this is cleaned up, it should be good for a while. Unless the RTV is coming from somewhere else higher in the engine (timing cover or something) ☹️
@@TheBTRGarage the amount you removed at 4000 miles is concerning. Maybe not annually but at minimum once every few years. I hope Toyota and Subaru can waive shop labor and fees to get it cleaned and inspected at least once during its warrantied life.
I agree it seems like a lot for such low miles. Definitely hope they add some kind of check to regular service intervals.
@@wyyn Seems reasonable since there's not a ton of GR86 out there.
I contacted Subaru BRZ customer service and they were NOT aware of the issue. Please make a call.
Talk about a thick bead of sealant. Might as well do this job again
Good video, unfortunately Subaru has a long history of terrible quality control and very poor engine design. In my experience they either blow up at 60k or run for over 200k. Most all of them develop large oil leaks during their lifetime, which usually requires pulling the engine to fix. Subaru is notorious about using silicone to seal with instead of gaskets and that stuff ends up in your oil pan waiting destroy the engine. I like the little car and all it needs is a Toyota engine to make it worth purchasing.
Jz swap 👀
Just saw a video of a guy who was on his first lap on a track, hardly pushing the engine yet, only a few minutes in, and it killed itself, and this issue is suspected to be the culprit. Toyota refused their warranty because they were on a track at the time...
Yea, I saw that too, whole situation sucks. I'm still not convinced RTV is the root cause, even after a handful of engine failures. There are countless people (like me) who had RTV in the pickup tube, thousands of miles and many many track days and races, but have had 0 issues. Seems more and more likely it's typical crappy boxer engine design and lack of oiling, too low oil, etc. The warranty refusal has to be infuriating for the people with engine failures, feel bad for them 😕
I just bought a gr86 1 month ago , and right off the bat there's RTV on the oil dipstick
It's nothing to worry about, congrats on the new car!
Your in an article on the drive fyi
Yep! I talked to them before the article went up.
@@TheBTRGarage that’s awesome! I’d keep rolling with a few of these videos even if they are just taking about it. They’ll get good views. Let’s see more of those E36 videos 🏁🏁🏁
unfortunaly there is alot more than just the oil pan sealed from the factory with RTV on these engines. it was never a big deal on older engines as the pickup tube was alot bigger. an anaerobic sealant like permatex 51845 should be used instead of RTV where ever possible. Anaerobic only cures where it is clamped between 2 machined surfaces. any extra just oozes out and mixes with the oil and is drained out next oil change. only downside to anaerobic is it cant be use on sheet metal stuff like stamped steel oil pans- for those you still need RTV. but anything machined like the timing cover, block halves, aluminum oil pans, oil pump etc anaerobic works flawless with zero chance of using too much.
Yep, RTV used in several places. I tall about that in the follow up video to this one.
Great video mate. Do you reckon that Toyota/Subaru would have been better off using a cork/fibrous gasket, instead of the factory RTV that is causing these issues that you have shown in your video?
What’s to say that some of the new RTV you have applied to the oil pan squeezes out like before and makes it way back up into the oil pick up screen again?
Perhaps, maybe Toyota/Subaru were a little heavy on applying the RTV sealant in the first place that have caused these quality issues. It seems like a serious quality issue in the factory that requires addressing on getting the correct amount of RTV applied in the factory to the oil pan in the first place to the FA24D engine. Or change the process all together to eliminate the risk of FOD entering the oil pick up screen and engine in the first place. This has to be a major Correction Action that should be addressed immediately by the companies.
Would like to know your thoughts?
Happy motoring.
Nick.
Thanks! A gasket would have eliminated any potential RTV scraps coming from the oil pan area. However, I do think RTV scraps are coming from other parts of the engine where they use RTV to seal a component (ie: the timing cover). So, even if the oil pan RTV was a non-issue, there is still a chance the oil pickup could be seeing RTV from other areas.
My new RTV sealant job is not full proof for sure, there is of course still a chance that bits of that break off into the pan. But it's very hard to know for sure. I will take the pan off again at my next oil change and see if we still have any RTV scraps in the pickup.
This is just upsetting, I’m picking up my new 2023 gr86. Knowing it’s coming with a problem is a bummer.
I wouldn't sweat it too much. While the issue has blown up on the internet due to a small amount of failures + warranty denial, I don't think it will be an issue for most people. But, that's just my guess, only time will tell :)
@@TheBTRGarage hey Justin. Do you think it won’t be an issue for most because Toyota already caught the problem and switched to a new brand of silicon?
This was an issue in Gen1 as well. Unlikely Subaru did “Jack” to correct it. Probably saves them 20 cents per connection point. 🙄
@@shaneh734 While it might look like a bad problem, there is not yet a lot of evidence that it is specifically causing engine issues/failures. We've seen a few, but in the big picture that's not a big deal, yet.
@@TheBTRGarage gulf states Toyota really dropped the ball on this, if they had just fixed it without kicking up a fuss I doubt it would have so many purchasers and potential purchasers lose confidence in the car. Wonder if Toyota themselves will come down on gulf states over it.
Keep reading so many people cancelling their orders over this
The new Toyota GRtv86 WOW I’m still gonna buy one 😅
Toyota/Subaru should just revise this application from factory. I hope this is fixed for the '23 versions.
That's the hope! With all the media coverage and chatter, I wouldn't be surprised if they at least investigate the situation.
hopefully.. my '23 will be here in Oct. I only plan to do 17x9 arc8, 245/40 PS4S & camber/crash bolts. If the motor goes because of this silicon issue, it'll get replaced.. but the hassle of that process will always be on my mind.. big sighs......
Informative video, but shouldn’t Toyota/Subaru be addressing and remedying this issue?
My opinion is yes, which is why I recommended (a couple times) to contact your dealer first. This video is for those that may choose to DIY, or get pushback from dealers, or have an older gen out of warranty.
Great video! I am waiting a 86 now.Hopefully the dealer can take care of it.I also want to know the tool that you leaving the car up.Can I use it in my own garage ?
Thanks! That would be a QuickJack lift, they are awesome 👌 Yes, it is small enough for a garage.
found silicone on my 22 wrx dipstick... this appears to be an issue for any FA24
☹️
Wow. Well detailed video. Do you think they resolved this problem for all 2023 models? Or, is it possible that some initial 2023 models have this same problem?
Thanks! It's really impossible for us to know if anything changed for the 2023 models. All we can hope is that this whole situation brings to light any potential issues and Toyota/Subaru look into making a change.
It’s been documented in the early ‘23s on Facebook recently in the forums there… few different 23’s with less than 1000 on the clock that have blown up and had rtv in the pickup. There’s a blue ‘23 trueno that had 400 miles on it that comes to mind most recently
Toyota/Subaru are starting to replace some blown 22 engines with this same issue. Soon they will be forced to recall these cars under warranty. Thankfully for them, they haven't been able to sell enough of them (because covid era BS) and are still on time to fix this issue before 2023 models start rolling out of the factory.
Too late there are already ‘23s blowing up from the same bs
my gr86 has not been built yet, i hope toyota will solve this Subaru problem, although i don't think they can do much about it because it is physiological of subaru engine construction
Sorry about my English , this is from Google translate:p
My opinion is the majority of cars will be fine, and I would not worry too much about RTV in the oil pickup.
@@TheBTRGarage thx, i feel much better now, keep going making video
Can they make a car without having issues right off the bat these days? I was wanting an 86 too.. guess you can "86" that idea...
im in the same situation, I wanted to trade my car in for either an 86 or a civic si...guess which one im leaning towards
This is a ridiculous design flaw... I can't believe Toyota approved this. I regret my sti, I wont regret NOT getting this one. A Cayman looks affordable now.
Username checks out :D
As always your outstanding. 👍
Are you using a standard length quickjack? If so I'd be curious if you could show where exactly along the pinch rail you are lifting from. I was surprised mine didn't reach the lift point notches for such a small car. thanks!
Yea it's a standard BL-3500. I line the jack block with the back of the front pinch weld, which puts the rear one a bit in front of the pinch weld.
Great video, but jeez, all this just so they could save 10 bucks for a proper gasket.
Right! It's a Subaru thing, I guess :(
Great video!! Do you need to leave the RTV to dry before you put the oil back in? Thanks!
The RTV I used sets up pretty quickly and says ready to use after 1 minute, so it just depends on the RTV you use. I reinstalled the oil pan and let it sit overnight before filling with oil the first time I did this. The second I did it, just recently, I put oil back in after a couple hours just to be safe.
Did I miss the results of the oil analysis?
Did they resolve this issue on the 2023 model??
On top of that do you think doing this process once will be good for the remaining future of the car?
Nothing was changed for 2023. See my follow up video, I pulled the pan a 2nd time and found virtually no RTV in the pickup.
Why cant they just use a gasket? If it makes the car work better i dont get it. Also how do you know the rtv you just put on didn’t do the exact same thing from factory??? Its hard for me to understand why a subaru cant use a gasket for $40 extra as an option.
Just got mine yesterday, build date was 07/2022 and hopefully it's no longer an issue but will check maybe after break-in period.
We're still in the anecdotal evidence stage I think, but to already have at least one known failure is not very promising. Hopefully it's a non-issue for future builds, mine is a 12/21 car.
GR8! video man! Thank you!
Thanks, glad it is helpful!
@@TheBTRGarage yea man for sho! im at about 700miles now and I do want to wait and see if Toyota will issue a TSB to offer this at no cost, since its a known issue, and can lead to oil starvation > blown motor. Im sure inspecting an oil pan, and cleaning is alot cheaper than replacing the whole motor 😅 Time will tell!
great content!! other than the oil pan, there is rtv in timing cover as well?
Yes, there are definitely other places the RTV can come from. Check out my latest Q&A video on this, I go over more details.
@@TheBTRGarage wil do, thanks!
Why don't someone make a gasket for the oil pan?
Perdonevmi imgnorancia señor justin pero quiere decir que el sistema de escape calentando el carter de aceite no produce nimgun problema?
Are there any early indicators that would suspect there is silicone buildup? The car recently came back from a Texas roadtrip so wondering if now is a good time to check.
Ie: silicone bits in oil during an oil change etc or anything else that would help myself make a decision to DIY it.
Unfortunately my dealer is not putting it under warranty and with an insane cost just to check (quoted about $800).
Some have seen RTV on the dipstick. If you change the oil yourself you could strain it through a filter to see if anything was in the pan.
My opinion is that most cars will be fine just letting it be, but I understand wanting to be preventative.
@@TheBTRGarage makes sense! yeah definitely just want to prevent any other things that can go wrong on it 😂 Loved the vid -- very clear cut, if I will be doing it, I'll be following the vid here 🔥
My question is: should we replace silicone with a gasket ???
No, there is no gasket on the market even if you wanted to.
Why don’t they just make a gasket good lord
Right! That said, it is possible that the RTV chunks came from other places where the RTV is used (ie: timing cover). Although they could use gaskets there as well I suppose.
Any followup on this. I know it was mentioned that there would be another pan drop to see if there was more RTV or if it is a 1 time cleaning needed.
Coming soon! I'll be doing my next oil change after this weekend's track and autox events. We'll drop the pan and see if any more RTV accumulated in the pickup 👍
I don't the make a gasket stuff I prefer preformed ones that are made for the car.
Why don’t they use a gasket instead? Seems it would eliminate the chance of this happening.
There is silicone coming from other areas in the engine too. A gasket might reduce the RTV build up, but not eliminate it.
why didn't you wait until your warranty expires before you do this? now that warranty is gone init?
at 4:26 if I see correctly the oil pickup tube has holes on the bottom AND on two sides at least (there is a yellow piece of something on the right side), so even if the bottom is partially clogged as shown the oil should flow throught the sides of the strainer and compensate. Of course not ideal but am I wrong ?
Good eye! You are right and I came to the same conclusion. I think this is part of the improved design over previous gen, where it was just a single flat screen filter.
So, even if RTV gets gunked up on the "top" filter screen, there are still 4 (not 2) screens on the sides where oil can pass through. Tomorrow I'm releasing a video where I talk about exactly this, with diagrams and things, stay tuned!
That is what I thought.
My BRZ hopefully gets delivered by the end of September here in Australia.
Have just heard of this RTV issue.
I think an occasional look with an inspection camera, via the sump plug
may be in order if that is at all possible?
What do you think?
Yea you could do that, I wouldn't worry about it too much though.
Have some scoring on the inside sealing side of the engine. Will this be an issue? I’m thinking the RTV will fill any gaps candidly (Permatex Ultra Grey).
Can you please share the oil analysis results?
Yep, once I get it back I will.
what should i be looking for? high oil temps? or is it like a silent assassin.
Oil pressure gauge would be the ideal thing to have, but you would have to install that manually. Otherwise yes, it is kind of a silent assassin ☹️ Avoiding high revving or extended high RPM's is the other way to play it safe, but that kind of defeats the whole purpose of the car.
The most depressing thing is I bought this car last week and now I gotta worry about this 😭 I’m not even done with the break in period.
I wouldn't worry too much, I think this will be a non issue for most people.
@@TheBTRGarage hopefully but as you said I’m gonna contact the dealer to see if they can take a look at it. Especially since we been getting 90 degree heat.
@@TheBTRGarage who is it going to be an issue for?
They use that stuff everywhere. Just cleaning the oil pan is not going to fix this problem. Higher torque areas and sharper edge connections will be a problem. I love my 2022 BRZ and now I feel like I've tripped a land mine. I'm not going to pay a penny for any 20 year old's engineering mistake!
Yea that's the concern I have, is RTV is gonna be coming from other places as well. The oil pan cleanup should help, but not eliminate the issue ☹️
The only thing I hope for from that fact is that thr problem can't last forever. If other parts of the engine have rtv coming off. We'll need to drop the oan and check for clogs in thr pickup a few times but Id assume that after a while the problem will go away because the excess rtv will eventually all work it's way out. Just wonder how much and how long?
I just pulled my oil pan again yesterday and I have good news coming soon 😁
@@TheBTRGarage ohhh... Interesting. I placed an order for a GR86 last week. Won't be available for a few months. Hopefully the issue is either resolved from the factory by that time or they don't need more than a couple pan drops before the problem goes away.
Subaru desperately need to redesign the oil pickup so it has a larger primary screen, maybe on the bottom, that way a few pieces of silicone will have little affect.
Sticking with small easily clogged primary filter screen combined with quite extensive use of silicone sealing is a recipe for failure.
Smacks of incompetence by whom ever signed off on this from Subaru Engineering.
Yep, they absolutely need a screen on thr very end so pieces thst hit that screen will just fall off and not form a persistent clog
This is great but isnt that too much rtv once again on the pan seal that caused the problem in the first place??
I don't think so, if you compare the large beads that I took off to what I applied, I tried to make it much less.
That said, I don't think the oil pan seal is the only place RTV is coming from, unfortunately. I plan to open it back up at my next oil change to see what happens.
@@TheBTRGarage right onsomeoneshould just make a gasket
buttttt the scary part is other part of it “might” have tons of rtv too😅
Wonder if there is enough room for a borescope
Yea, a few people have done that, that I've seen.
I can't figure out why Toyota is willing to hurt their reputation with this stuff over TWO generations. I'd make a comment about Subaru, but ICE problems + Subaru = SNAFU.
If you doesn’t report the RTV and everyone fixes before the engine detonated. It will be no recalls because all of you fix it already as s upgrade sealant.
Great vid
Thanks!
I did and dealer wants to charge $450.00 ??? For doing it 🤬🤬🤬
Can someone explain to me why the hell subaru can’t use an oil pan gasket? It isn’t new technology all of my 90s BMWs use oil pan gaskets, sure they leak over time but I don’t have to worry about silicone clogging my pick up tube.
Nope :) There must be some reason for no gasket...cost? ease of replacement? (no defintely not that), one less part for the parts catalog? better sealing compared to a gasket? (maybe)...otherwise I dunno...
@@TheBTRGarage Peeling silicone off is easier than peeling off a rubber gasket? Took me half an hour to replace the valve cover gasket on my m52, cost me $23 for an OEM part, now is it less efficient in the long term yes, but again I restate I dont have to worry about my oil pick up being clogged by a shitty application of silicone, and I by far expect a hell of a lot more from a Japanese manufacturer.
@@TheBTRGarage it's definetly cost.. One robot can slap a bead of RTV on a lot faster an easier than applying a gasket. If only the programmed the robot properly 🙄
Nice video. So what's stopping the new gasket from doing the same thing?
Thanks! The idea is a thinner bead will not break off like the heavy factory bead. That said, the RTV is also coming from other parts of the engine, like the timing cover. Check out my follow up video where I inspected the oil pickup a 2nd time (spoiler, there was almost nothing in it).
@@TheBTRGarage Thanks for the reply. I ended up seeing the follow up video after I commented. I feel your channel should be more popular than it is. Thanks for all the work you do.
@@mikesamson1930 Thanks! Share with your car friends, best way to help grow 😁
What RTV Sealant did you use? Dropping my oil pan on the weekend
Permatex Right Stuff : amzn.to/3SCbd9p
Is this a Subaru engine except the ds4 part. The brz should also be affected right. How about the 2.4 l engine in the wex. 37 K for a used brz on autotrade.
Hard to say if the same issue exists on the other FA24's, my guess would be yes, but it's just a guess.
Are the 2023 models experiencing this problem?
I'm not aware of anyone that has opened up a 2023 model yet to check. My guess it tbey too would have RTV in the pickup after a period of use. Whether or not that actually causes any problem is still low risk, in my opinion.
Great video. Plan to do this soon on my next oil change. Do you have the torque specs for the exhaust parts that need to be removed removed? Thanks!
Header bolts to block = 22ft.lbs
Header to overpipe = 32ft.lbs
Exhaust spring bolts I just tighten until they bottom out
Those are the only things you need to remove to get the header off.
@@TheBTRGarage thank you, sir!
Is this whole process a one time fix?? Or does this need to be done at every oil change interval? I feel like that is something pretty important to know
It is unknown yet at this time. Once I do my next oil change I am going to drop the pan again and see what it looks like, which should answer the question.
Well done video but yeah, I'm not touching this shit. Got 5 years of warranty for a reason.
I don't blame you. The problem is, people have been denied warranty claims potentially caused by this issue :(
Does this apply to all the car ? I went and check with a flexible camera from the drain plug and I didn't see any silicone ridge on all the side of the oil pan. Got my BRZ on December and racked 40000km so far, should I be worried ?
if it was going to affect you, it probably already would have by now.
How is your car now? Did you manage to drop the oil pan?
This first year has a dumb recall. How could this happen
Almost bought one, now I’m not sure 🤔
Buy it! I would not worry about this RTV issue too much, see my follow up Q&A video, might help.
I have a 2022 BRZ and am really p*ssed this is happening. I had a '96 Corvette that had the same issue. And now, a Subaru. Question: If you go through what you've just done, then what's to stop this issue happening again as you've removed the silicone and put on a new bead?
This process will likely only reduce the chance of it happening again. I think RTV is coming from other places as well, like the timing chain cover. But, that's just my guess.
@@TheBTRGarage I have such higher expectations from a company like Subaru. Just plain angry. Does anybody know how to make a decent car that doesn't have issues out the gate?
After checking tube, do I keep checking every 5k miles?
No, I don't think that is necessary.
So is the excess rtv just around the oil pan? For what i have been researching it can be anywhere in the engine falling into the pan and getting sucked in..
There are a couple other places where RTV could break off and fall into the pan. The timing cover is one, the pan is just the easiest thing to see and do anything about.
@@TheBTRGarage gotcha, its gonna be interesting to see how all this pans out, am curious to see what position toyota takes into this matter. To be honest this is one of the reasons i went miata instead
Of brz but i love the brz too.
Do you mind sharing the build date and mileage of your car?
Build date is 12/21, I have just under 4k miles at time of this video.
If I take it to the dealer are they going to pay for it? I love 2 hrs away from mine. Also have the Subaru btw
I can't possibly answer that. Each dealer will treat this situation differently and since it's a developing situation, I'm going to bet most of them will not do anything about it, unless you want to pay.
Geez is this happening to ever gr86 and brz. Are they coming out of the factory in this condition. This is awful
Take a look at my most recent video for mkre details. I personally don't think the RTV in the pickup is as big of a deal as it's been made out to be.
Well, that's something you don't need when your first week of driving your brand new 86....
No need to worry really. See my follow-up Q&A, might help.
is there a Fumoto valve in your (near) future? Yes, I'm aware of the potential negatives, but having a much more controlled oil stream when draining seems benefit enough and no torque wrench needed afterwards...glad you caught it when you did...what did your dealer say (if you asked?) about warranty repercussions? all of the silicone is just from their assembly process???
I may add a Fumoto valve, not on my short list though. They are nice, I have one on my truck and have never had issues.
I have not asked my dealer yet, I wanted get the video done for those who might get pushback from their own dealers and need to DIY. Plus, for the older gen cars since it's the same process. The silicone is just from the assembly process, correct. It is all done by machines, and maybe this is all normal and within the Toyota build specifications, but it can clearly have negative consequences in some cases.
fumoto drain valve is a waste of money. torquing a drain plug only takes a couple seconds.
Have you tracked the car yet or just regular every day driving so far?
I noted details in the description:
3x autox events
1 track day at UMC (3 mile long track)
@@TheBTRGarage Oh sorry, I have a habit of not looking there, thanks for the reply!
@@Kira-uj8os No worries 👍
Is there anyone who makes a gasket you can use instead when re-installing?
Not that I know of. Even then, I don't think that would fully eliminate any RTV, since it is used on the timing cover and some other areas too.
Do you know if this issue is still on the 2023s?
Nothing was changed as far as I know.
Would it be better to use a traditional gasket instead of rtv?
Just curious what production month/year ur vehicle is?
12/21
I have a 2022 WRX picked up a week ago. Would I have the rtv issues?
I don't know, I wouldn't worry about it too much until Toyota/Subaru make an official statement.