I think you should have discussed putting one of these in a squad of Veterans. BS 3+ makes them much more deadly, even if you move because you still get 4+ as opposed to 5+. I think alot of people underrate veterans, each Veteran is only 1pt more than a regular Guardsman, and with a Las-cannon and nothing else the squad is 66pts. This makes the Lascannon more reliable as it is BS 3+ and gives it a bunch of bodies to protect it. And unlike the other options 1 Lascannon is actually a threat all on it's own.
The biggest issue with veterans is that they are not troops They get stuck in list building limbo because of this as there are cheaper options and necessary ones in the elites section to fill out brigades already other than them. I think the ultimate boon for them would be if they made it back into the troops slot again or the rule of 3 was able to be ignored for guard if you built some kind of pure list.
@@TheMostSlyFox I completely agree, but I still think the Veteran Squad is still great. I use them exclusively for putting lascannons into my army, as I've found that's the best way to use them. I wish I wasnt hindered in using only three.
Your always talking about point efficiency, I can just imagine you reviewing 30k units "there bad, there all bad" as it's a game where you can drop 1k points on a single unit easy!
Well, you're certainly right about the Rule of Three reducing their numbers well below critical mass. Really quite strange that they blithely allow 9 Basilisks in a list thanks to squadrons but only 3 of these poor things. Where's the HW platoon option with three HW squads and a command group, or the fluffy option to include one HW squad in each standard Gurad infantry platoon as support?
Yeah, just so - not fluffy. The Guard operates in big fat formations, not individual squads, and HW platoons are definitely a Thing. Heck, if you do three proper HW platoons you could get a unified HW company on the table, and wouldn't that be neat?
GW has punished guard list building since the 8th index. Im hoping for at a minimum of combined squads and or platoon structure coming back if they get the SM treatment maybe. But knowing GW they will just give us some other tank...
A reasonable update for the defensive profile could be counting them as being in cover when they don't move because the sandbags and all also let them shoot their lasguns in combat not that it would help much but it's kinda fluffy
What do you think about embedding them within the infantry squads that sit back as screens? I usually reserve around 2 as screens for units such as my Basilisks and Leman Russes so they spend the first few turns sitting around the back deterring deep-striking units. Since they're sitting there as screens anyway, there might be something in putting heavy weapons squads within those units.
An interesting way to make them more interesting and more viable is including the idea of fortification. When fielding the unit you have a one time use sand bag wall ability. Deploy your unit and move them to the perfect place, then declare the ability. It adds cover to the unit, preferably being a quite affective save over just being in a crater. This comes at the cost of being unable to move without forfeiting that save forever. This could also be a very interesting way to incorporate a bodyguard mechanic. Allow me to explain. When the unit declares its position, it gains a cover save and cannot move, as well as giving the option for an HQ unit or command squad to enter it like a transport, giving them cover, and giving a range boost to all communications coming from that unit, if the artillery is destroyed, upon an unlucky role you can inflict a mortal would to the unit residing in it. I think this would make it feel more strategic and interesting
Ever since the LVO winning list was revealed, ive been looking at what, if even anything, Would be capable of being remotely efficient at removing those near invulnerable intercessors. Even with the 5 plus in going save and 5 plus feel no pain, auto-cannons seem really promising.
Autocannon or the battle cannon is good, i'd say autocannon, the idea weapon would be S5 -2ap 2d I think. anything higher starts to go into a niche and becomes ineffecient against normal primaris marines. The avenger gatling cannon for knights is really good at removing them. Radium Carbines are effective for admech specially mars (wraith of mars stratagem). Stalker Bolt Rifle Iron Hands Intercessors in devastator doctrine are scary, S4 (maybe S5 but I don't think so) -3ap 2D. and a range advantage at 36" Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.
I've been running missile launcher heavy weapons squads, they struggle against anything t8 but anything t7 and below they can nail them quite comfortably dreadnoughts are particularly favoured target. Most success I've had against were dreadnoughts, t7 or below vehicles and when a character happens to break the line and be unprotected firing a 3 krak rockets into their faces is quite lovely considering most times a single 5+ will outright kill them.
I always run 3 lascannon teams with cadia doctrine and orders and I can not describe how amaising they are. Its basicly, its a repulsor over there…..not anymore
So I run my guard plt like a modern mechanized plt. 1st sqd is 3 chimeras, 2 line squads, and one hvy wpns sqd all auto cannons. Mortar sqd is by the hq elements.
Putting standard guard squads in chimeras isn't really efficent but it's pretty fun to do so, I put bullgyrns in in the chimerias to deliver a heavy difficult to remove blugeon to the center of the oppoents army, both the chimeria and the bullgyrns draw a lot of fire. usually the chimeria is barebones but sometimes I put track guards if i want a more niche purpose.
@@dominusbalial835 Im operating a combined arms armored company. Two platoons of tanks and a plt of infantry. With support elements attached as needed.
heavy weapons squards are infantry so Mordians strategem that lets you refire the enitre weapons profile on any and all 6s can cause crazy damage output espcially on mortars or frag missles, auto cannons are decent. Don't forge that mordian gets the can target enmey characters order so you can combine that order with the strategmn and land something like 24 hits with one mortar only weapons squad. Even if the oppant is saving on 2s. you wound 12 times so you will average 2 unsaved wounds.
@@sidebet5553 3 squads of 3 guys. So you can take 9 heavy weapon bases total in squads, then up to 1 heavy weapon per infantry squad. The reason it's so bad for heavy weapon squads specifically is because they're fairly flimsy units and there's no distinction for loadout so of the 5 or so options for heavy weapon squads you can only have up to 3 unless you start mixing and matching weapons in the squad itself but that's not a good idea.
For me spamming autocannons is the way to go they're best of both worlds between the lascannon and the heavy bolter much like the missile launcher but way more reliable two shots per gun make for an average amount of bf4 hits and they certainly will hurt everything they hit also it will one shot primaris what is really what you need at the time
Hi,im new and now have a few squads etc. Used to play 15 years ago so im a noob with IG. But are there actually guides that show people how to use these guys without me having to ask someone in a store? I live in swirzerland so not many around....dont need facts etc, just a slow video of every heavy weapons sort. How many dice for what weapin or attacks. Would be very grateful😁🤘
If you put heavy weapon in to normal squad,veterans or command,you get more wounds,cos you are in squad,so before enemy killed your 8 guardsmen,you still get heavy weapon as last guys in squad,additionally you dont need to pay for weapon,so you got lascannon for free in squads,
Trying to wrap my head around this: when a Heavy Weapons Squad shoots they can attack with each of their Lasguns as well as the Heavy Weapon itself. Does that count for each model on the base? i.e. three sets of two models = 6 shots? Or since one model is operating the heavy weapon does it not get to shoot a Lasgun?
SirBrittanicvs A heavy weapon squad consists of heavy weapon teams and each of these teams is considered a single model even though they are modelled with two men on them. So, only one lasgun per base/team.
You keep mentioning that they’re very squishy, so maybe it’s best to chin off HW squads entirely and just stick to regular squads with a heavy weapon attached ? Just for the extra meatshields
Tea and Medals I thought this at first too but I found in playing that the psychological effect on me if embedding hw teams in my squads was that i was hesitant to move them and that really the best way to get output from the squad is rapidfire range w/ first rank/second rank. Backfield obejctive holders that arn’t going to move make sense though. So i think it’s situational.
Obscurian Obscurian I agree that you loose mobility by being hesitant to move them, way around this would be to have normal infantry squads with assault weapons for the front screen and then some infantry squads for the backfield with heavy weapons No one is gonna bother to pop 10 guardsmen at the back of the field to take out a single lascannon So you have the advantage of being small enough/not important enough of a target so don’t attract attention whilst still putting out some firepower
Am I the only one who hates Heavy Bolters as heavy weapons for infantry? Their 36" range (on large maps) makes it difficult to use, as you need to move them up more frequently, therefore, hiting on 5+ more often (and Emperor have mercy if they have a -1 to hit)! Not only that, but now you're most likely in the enemy's range! In a either a infantry squad or heavy weapons squad, I find this range deal a massive hindrance, especially when compared to the auto cannon. On vehicles, their fine. But when compared to the good ol' auto cannon in infantry... they're lacking.
Came to the comments to complain about the rule of 3 and see plenty of others already there! I don't think the rule of 3 should apply to any infantry guard squad, HWS, SWT, veterans, even company commanders and command squads!
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Can take 9 basilisks but only 3 heavy weapons squads , fear the mighty guard heavy weapons squads .
I think you should have discussed putting one of these in a squad of Veterans. BS 3+ makes them much more deadly, even if you move because you still get 4+ as opposed to 5+. I think alot of people underrate veterans, each Veteran is only 1pt more than a regular Guardsman, and with a Las-cannon and nothing else the squad is 66pts. This makes the Lascannon more reliable as it is BS 3+ and gives it a bunch of bodies to protect it. And unlike the other options 1 Lascannon is actually a threat all on it's own.
Will certainly be discussing vet squads in a future vid!
The biggest issue with veterans is that they are not troops
They get stuck in list building limbo because of this as there are cheaper options and necessary ones in the elites section to fill out brigades already other than them.
I think the ultimate boon for them would be if they made it back into the troops slot again or the rule of 3 was able to be ignored for guard if you built some kind of pure list.
@@TheMostSlyFox I completely agree, but I still think the Veteran Squad is still great. I use them exclusively for putting lascannons into my army, as I've found that's the best way to use them. I wish I wasnt hindered in using only three.
@@TheMostSlyFox yeah I agree i've avoided veterns for units like bullgyrns and astropaths.
Gosh, you really are churning them out. Useful stuff as ever. Thanks.
No trouble, yeah might not be able to sustain this rate forever but it's fun for now :)
Your always talking about point efficiency, I can just imagine you reviewing 30k units "there bad, there all bad" as it's a game where you can drop 1k points on a single unit easy!
points efficeny is important generally but its really really important for guard
Most 30k units are bad. The game has terrible internal balance
Well, you're certainly right about the Rule of Three reducing their numbers well below critical mass. Really quite strange that they blithely allow 9 Basilisks in a list thanks to squadrons but only 3 of these poor things. Where's the HW platoon option with three HW squads and a command group, or the fluffy option to include one HW squad in each standard Gurad infantry platoon as support?
Yeah, it is a bit arbitrary, isn't it? I think with these guys and SWSs the rule of three is particularly punishing.
Yeah, just so - not fluffy. The Guard operates in big fat formations, not individual squads, and HW platoons are definitely a Thing. Heck, if you do three proper HW platoons you could get a unified HW company on the table, and wouldn't that be neat?
GW has punished guard list building since the 8th index.
Im hoping for at a minimum of combined squads and or platoon structure coming back if they get the SM treatment maybe.
But knowing GW they will just give us some other tank...
I'm really surprised you didnt really cover the most useful way to deploy heavy weapon teams. Put them in a bunker
A reasonable update for the defensive profile could be counting them as being in cover when they don't move because the sandbags and all also let them shoot their lasguns in combat not that it would help much but it's kinda fluffy
Or give them knives and pistols
What do you think about embedding them within the infantry squads that sit back as screens? I usually reserve around 2 as screens for units such as my Basilisks and Leman Russes so they spend the first few turns sitting around the back deterring deep-striking units. Since they're sitting there as screens anyway, there might be something in putting heavy weapons squads within those units.
Nvm u already mentioned it in the vid
Yeah I do typically tend to prefer protecting the more expensive ones in the infantry squads
An interesting way to make them more interesting and more viable is including the idea of fortification.
When fielding the unit you have a one time use sand bag wall ability. Deploy your unit and move them to the perfect place, then declare the ability. It adds cover to the unit, preferably being a quite affective save over just being in a crater. This comes at the cost of being unable to move without forfeiting that save forever.
This could also be a very interesting way to incorporate a bodyguard mechanic. Allow me to explain.
When the unit declares its position, it gains a cover save and cannot move, as well as giving the option for an HQ unit or command squad to enter it like a transport, giving them cover, and giving a range boost to all communications coming from that unit, if the artillery is destroyed, upon an unlucky role you can inflict a mortal would to the unit residing in it. I think this would make it feel more strategic and interesting
Ever since the LVO winning list was revealed, ive been looking at what, if even anything, Would be capable of being remotely efficient at removing those near invulnerable intercessors.
Even with the 5 plus in going save and 5 plus feel no pain, auto-cannons seem really promising.
Autocannon or the battle cannon is good, i'd say autocannon, the idea weapon would be S5 -2ap 2d I think. anything higher starts to go into a niche and becomes ineffecient against normal primaris marines. The avenger gatling cannon for knights is really good at removing them. Radium Carbines are effective for admech specially mars (wraith of mars stratagem). Stalker Bolt Rifle Iron Hands Intercessors in devastator doctrine are scary, S4 (maybe S5 but I don't think so) -3ap 2D. and a range advantage at 36" Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.
I fuckin love my autocannon weapons teams. They always dish out more punishment then their initial investment.
I will gruginly admit that las fire can't take everything out. But for those few cenarios more guardsmen with bigger guns are perfect.
I've been running missile launcher heavy weapons squads, they struggle against anything t8 but anything t7 and below they can nail them quite comfortably dreadnoughts are particularly favoured target.
Most success I've had against were dreadnoughts, t7 or below vehicles and when a character happens to break the line and be unprotected firing a 3 krak rockets into their faces is quite lovely considering most times a single 5+ will outright kill them.
I always run 3 lascannon teams with cadia doctrine and orders and I can not describe how amaising they are. Its basicly, its a repulsor over there…..not anymore
So I run my guard plt like a modern mechanized plt. 1st sqd is 3 chimeras, 2 line squads, and one hvy wpns sqd all auto cannons. Mortar sqd is by the hq elements.
Putting standard guard squads in chimeras isn't really efficent but it's pretty fun to do so, I put bullgyrns in in the chimerias to deliver a heavy difficult to remove blugeon to the center of the oppoents army, both the chimeria and the bullgyrns draw a lot of fire. usually the chimeria is barebones but sometimes I put track guards if i want a more niche purpose.
@@dominusbalial835 Im operating a combined arms armored company. Two platoons of tanks and a plt of infantry. With support elements attached as needed.
heavy weapons squards are infantry so Mordians strategem that lets you refire the enitre weapons profile on any and all 6s can cause crazy damage output espcially on mortars or frag missles, auto cannons are decent. Don't forge that mordian gets the can target enmey characters order so you can combine that order with the strategmn and land something like 24 hits with one mortar only weapons squad. Even if the oppant is saving on 2s. you wound 12 times so you will average 2 unsaved wounds.
You can stick 6 if them in a chimera and race them around the battlefield
I got like 40 heavy weapons for heavy weapons squads....then the rule of 3 happened. Here's hoping we get some way to bring more than 3 again
Does it mean you can take 3 squads or only literally 3 guys ?
@@sidebet5553 3 squads of 3 guys. So you can take 9 heavy weapon bases total in squads, then up to 1 heavy weapon per infantry squad. The reason it's so bad for heavy weapon squads specifically is because they're fairly flimsy units and there's no distinction for loadout so of the 5 or so options for heavy weapon squads you can only have up to 3 unless you start mixing and matching weapons in the squad itself but that's not a good idea.
Hey, would you consider doing a video on the militarum fighters? Maybe comparing the lightning, avenger and thunderbolt?
Hopefully at some point in the future! Might be a while though, the guard have a ton of options just in codex
So do HW squads deploy. Just with other HW or do you tack them onto infantry squads as of 2022
For me spamming autocannons is the way to go they're best of both worlds between the lascannon and the heavy bolter much like the missile launcher but way more reliable two shots per gun make for an average amount of bf4 hits and they certainly will hurt everything they hit also it will one shot primaris what is really what you need at the time
Do a tactical advice review on Special Weapons Squads, pretty please...!!
You mention Frag AND Krak grenades. Were they eratta'd or was that a slip of the tongue?
Hpw would HWteams benifit if they had a special rule that they were always in cover?
That honestly would be a neat idea.
If they got cover if they didn't move in the previous movement phase.
I really liked the auto cannon but now that the missile launcher is the same im super torn on it
Hi,im new and now have a few squads etc. Used to play 15 years ago so im a noob with IG. But are there actually guides that show people how to use these guys without me having to ask someone in a store? I live in swirzerland so not many around....dont need facts etc, just a slow video of every heavy weapons sort. How many dice for what weapin or attacks.
Would be very grateful😁🤘
What Squad would you guys use if you only have one to build?
Honestly I think we could do to look into the Tauros and Tauros Venator.
If you put heavy weapon in to normal squad,veterans or command,you get more wounds,cos you are in squad,so before enemy killed your 8 guardsmen,you still get heavy weapon as last guys in squad,additionally you dont need to pay for weapon,so you got lascannon for free in squads,
Trying to wrap my head around this: when a Heavy Weapons Squad shoots they can attack with each of their Lasguns as well as the Heavy Weapon itself. Does that count for each model on the base? i.e. three sets of two models = 6 shots? Or since one model is operating the heavy weapon does it not get to shoot a Lasgun?
SirBrittanicvs A heavy weapon squad consists of heavy weapon teams and each of these teams is considered a single model even though they are modelled with two men on them. So, only one lasgun per base/team.
@@waslos2588 No, the heavy weapon team is a single MODEL, that is equipped with both a lasgun and a heavy weapon. It can fire both
You keep mentioning that they’re very squishy, so maybe it’s best to chin off HW squads entirely and just stick to regular squads with a heavy weapon attached ?
Just for the extra meatshields
Tea and Medals I thought this at first too but I found in playing that the psychological effect on me if embedding hw teams in my squads was that i was hesitant to move them and that really the best way to get output from the squad is rapidfire range w/ first rank/second rank. Backfield obejctive holders that arn’t going to move make sense though. So i think it’s situational.
Obscurian Obscurian I agree that you loose mobility by being hesitant to move them, way around this would be to have normal infantry squads with assault weapons for the front screen and then some infantry squads for the backfield with heavy weapons
No one is gonna bother to pop 10 guardsmen at the back of the field to take out a single lascannon
So you have the advantage of being small enough/not important enough of a target so don’t attract attention whilst still putting out some firepower
Can these guys be included in infantry squads?
3 wounds for having the sandbags or -1 to hit
Hwt as pure squads are not optimal at the moment no matter how you slice it, sadly. Putting them in infantry squads might be useful in some games
But what is the most competitive
Wonderful video
Great video again 👍 check out the tactics video on missile crack vs frag for more info on the missile launcher
Am I the only one who hates Heavy Bolters as heavy weapons for infantry? Their 36" range (on large maps) makes it difficult to use, as you need to move them up more frequently, therefore, hiting on 5+ more often (and Emperor have mercy if they have a -1 to hit)! Not only that, but now you're most likely in the enemy's range! In a either a infantry squad or heavy weapons squad, I find this range deal a massive hindrance, especially when compared to the auto cannon. On vehicles, their fine. But when compared to the good ol' auto cannon in infantry... they're lacking.
I agree to be honest, for the two extra points the autocannons reliably threaten a far greater number of targets
@@auspextactics and dont forget the two damage a piece. That takes out most infantry instantly, and adds up on vehicles.
Came to the comments to complain about the rule of 3 and see plenty of others already there!
I don't think the rule of 3 should apply to any infantry guard squad, HWS, SWT, veterans, even company commanders and command squads!
Yesssss!
How am I not first!
Damn I'm early...