Is this the Future Touring Motor Glider for Clubs❓ Phoenix by JMB Aircraft
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- Опубликовано: 22 апр 2024
- Is this the future motor glider for clubs? Easy to fly microlight with a tow hook for up to 600 kg of weight?
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#jmb #motorglider 
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I have owned Phoenix #17 for 12 years. The Phoenix is a really fun glider, but you won't often outclimb the pure sailplanes. I did fly a 500 km FAI triangle pure soaring flight in strong USA thermal conditions, and several 450+ km soaring flights. It handles like a sailplane in thermals, but when you leave a thermal and "run", it becomes obvious that the XC options are limited. In wave conditions, I flew (with my wave guru) a 862 km OLC pure soaring flight. With the short wingtips installed, it easily fits into a small hangar, and the long tips are very easy to install when rolled out of the hangar. And my wife likes it for it's ability for airplane cross-country with 100 pounds of baggage. Best wishes for JMB aircraft.
Russ O. (USA)
Thank you very much for your detailed experience with the Phoenix. Of course it doesn´t replace a proper sailplane but you did a lot of gliding with it. Didn´t expect this!
Tug option seems practical for clubs. My club already has a motor glider pulling double duty as the tug. Works well.
Tug with 100ps looks more like suitable for very light single seaters or wooden double seaters. Or you have an unlimited airfield.
I have owned a Phoenix Motorglider for the last 8+ years in the US. It is a phenomenal plane. It's an OK glider, but a great airplane for flying over hostile terrain. Flying in the Caribbean at 10K ft, if the engine quits, you have about 60nm of final glide. From Florida, all the way to Grenada, the maximum distance between airports is 120 nm, so with the Phoenix you can fly anywhere without the risk of ending up in the water.
My personal feeling is that the best market for the Phoenix is not as a glider, but as a two place airplane that is a great alternative to your typical light sport aircraft. In the US, you need a glider license to fly the Phoenix, which does not require a medical. That is a HUGE advantage to your light sport pilot rules, as you don't have any of the light sport restrictions. You can fly above 10K ft, as well as fly in the night.
My Phoenix is equipped with a Dynon Skyview panel with all the bells and whistles, including a Mode S Transponder, ADS-B IN and OUT, and an autopilot. With 26 gallons of fuel, it can handle two adults and 100 lbs of baggage. I can fly out of grass fields, or busy Class D airports with a mix of GA, Private Jets, and airliners. Given my short takeoff distance, I usually request intersection departures, which lets me jump to the front of the line, often bypassing multiple business jets waiting for departure.
Another BIG advantage for the Phoenix are the removable wing tips. You just remove a single pin, and pull the entire wing tip, which weights about 15lbs, out from the spar. This can be done in under 2 minutes. With the tips removed, the Phoenix's wing span is 35', so it comfortably fits in a standard US T-Hangar.
The Phoenix would also be a great trainer for flight schools that want to provide flight training for High School kids. In the US, you can solo in a glider (which the Phoenix is) when you are 14, and get your glider license when you are 16. By doing your flight training in a Phoenix, you can get a 2 year head start on your aviation career.
Thank you very much for the detailed experience with the Phoenix! :)
Good to see that the Phoenix got picked up by another company! I've been following the Phoenix and Sinus/Virus for years, and will probably own one of them sometime in the future.
We Experimental builders would love to see this in a kit.
No. I flew one recently and it thermals "just ok". It's gotta be really strong and wide thermals. It's an extremely efficient aircraft. But it's only a marginal glider when soaring. It's nothing close to a sailplane, obviously. But it won't ever replace a sailplane.
I really liked the feathering propeller. That was simple. Once we got low, we unfeathered the prop, hit the ignition, and the engine just cranked over and that was it. VERY safe air starts.
The one I flew had the extended range tanks, autopilot etc. All of this adds weight, of course. But he flies this thing to the Caribbean from Florida. It's incredible usefulness. But again, unfortunately it's not a great sailplane.
I REALLY wanted this to be able to soar better. The ground handling is a DREAM compared to sailplanes. Especially a MG like mine.
Every aircraft is a compromise and the hope to have all possible pluses in one is to guarantee frustration, no matter what the marketing departments may claim. Do you have any personal comparisons to be made with the Sinus or older glass Touring Motor Gliders such as the Dimona, G109b, Stemme, or Ximango? I own the latter and am quite pleased with it. In the air, it handles just like a big glider (vs a more airplaney feel like a Dimona). Of course, with an SSA handicap of 1.43, it's not going to set any soaring records or win competitions, but I'm in it for the fun as well as some measure of "practicality". Besides touring, I've done a comfortable 2,000 mile trip in it, I can leave my house at noon, be up by 1 pm, soar for 3-4 hours, park and return in time for dinner with no crew, tow plane or retrieve worries. Just like yesterday, a Monday, looked strong (for Michigan) but 20 knots of wind. So I launched, did a downwind dash of 160 km, restarted and powered home. A decent pure glider would have run 500 km, but so what? An overnight stay waiting for someone to spend hours on the road bringing a trailer, if one could find a tow plane on a Monday? I have more fun with the Ximango than I ever had with real sailplanes because the hassle overhead is so much lower. And yes, the rather high sink rate eliminates weak day soaring - not! I call it motor soaring. With the engine just above idle, it can soar on weak days quite well. Also, as an airplane, the "impossible turn" becomes nearly certain and here in the eastern USA, cruising at decent altitude keeps an airfield within glide range most of the time. Make a carbon Ximango to get the weight down and I'd be tempted to buy a new one.
I think you last point is the most important one. ULs are booming for students and gliding is just losing pilots every year. Having the ability to make us of an easy to handle motorglider (UL) with your instructor go flying also during the week after work and als learn to some extent how fascinating gliding is, could!! bring some movement back to the glider world. It‘s not a given, but it‘s chance.
Clasical motorgliders are outdated, slow, heavy, no power and/or extremly noisy no resuce system, maintenance cost etc.
Really happy this thing made it finally to JMB. Our Club followed it quite closely for some time and most likely will buy one in 2025+
Was that with the long or short wing configuration?
@@ThermalWave long wing config.
Jeff all great points and hence my comments trying to be practical towards it. On a really strong soaring day, I'm sure it'll do well. Especially out western USA.
Dankeschön, Deutsche brothers! 🇺🇸💛🇩🇪
Being a taildragger I wonder ( I.e., question) if it is a good choice for clubs.
That would be awesome to have more shots from the plane while listening rather then viewing two talking guys 😉
This looks like a really good aircraft! I would love to see solar panels integrated into the wings for electrification, if not a RAT to be used on decent.
How is the forward view when the canopy is closed?
It's like glasair made a glider. 🧐
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Fantastic, but can it be flown with an SPL (with a TMG rating)? If they get an EASA TC under CS-LSA then I guess not, because it won't be classified as a TMG.
I like it but how is the view over the panel?
On the ground is terrible. Typical tail dragger. In the air, the view was great.
Hello stefan what is price of small glider in indian rupees?
hey ive only been learing to fly gliders for the past few months, but every time I go up I get headaches that get to the point where it hinders how well I can learn. is there a way to improve this?
Do you drink water during Flight?
@@randomguyinanglider I do, I have a small bottle I bring with me
@@YeetusMcfeetus how frequently do you drink? When you notice you are thirsty its to late, i have a cammelback and drink from time to time small amaunts of water. If that doesent help joust fly more frequently and get used to the feeling of flying, it can take some time
The future is a self launch electric motor glider with either a retractable motor or folding streamlined propeller. Once at altitude, switch off the motor and glide. No need for tow planes or large battery packs, just enough battery power to launch. With some solar panels built into the wings to recharge the battery.
That’s an airplane and a different kind of license
The point of a 'Touring Motorglider' is to be able to tour ... travel distances to places either as a tour, or usually to glide. Electric has a long way to go to be able to meet that mission. I agree, electric self launch is great for a pure gliding objective, but not to 'go places'.
@@henryvoigt4791not necessarily. The Silent Electro 2 is an electric self launch folding prop in the front configuration glider. Definitely not an airplane
I don’t like the idea of electric planes. The cars already catch fire….can’t imagine 🔥😅
motor gliders are nothing new, my club when i was in giebelstadt had a grob 103 (or was it 109? i cant remember since it was in the 80's) motor glider that was fantastic. had variable pitch prop and was very comfortable.... we used to fly to sweinfurt just for coffee and pastries .
Nobody has claimed that motorgliders are something new.
But motorgliders in the microlight class, like this one, are rather rare. One of the few competitors in this class is the Pipistrel Sinus
C’mon Stefan!! That’s an airplane! It’s not a glider just because it has longer wings. Does that mean a Robin is a short winged glider??🤣🤣
15m high aspect ratio swept wings, flapperons, air brakes, feathering prop. When you look out the window at the long wings while you are circling with other gliders and holding with them, it is definitely a glider.
Ever seen those World War 2-era troop transport gliders?
If it’s meant to fly with the engine off, it’s a glider
US FAR par 1 defines a glider as: means a heavier-than-air aircraft, that is supported in flight by the dynamic reaction of the air against its lifting surfaces and whose free flight does not depend principally on an engine.