Edit: in regard to 'May/Let me entertain you'. June and Louise sing 'May We' as the kid's number. Older Louise sings 'Let me'. In the scene prior, Rose is searching for music and finds 'May we Entertain You' - but instead calls it 'Let Me'. In context to the video - I said that Rose suggests she sing 'May we' - the song choice is correct but the title has slightly changed. I just wanted to highlight that Rose wanted Older Louise to sing the song that June sang as a child which is 'May we Entertain you'. Thanks for watching guys! This was way longer than I intended it to be, but I’m super proud of it ❤️! There were many nights where I just sat so befuddled on how to do these swell ladies justice, and I only hope I achieved that. Please like, subscribe & share with your fictionalised stage mother 💃🎭🌹!
It is okay in Hollywood to be a stripper but not to advertise it. If people know, that`s it. You`re finished. Gypsy or Rose and June were so much better than what they got to do, the success or lack of it they achieved or did not.
It was fascinating. I never knew the background of June. I am a big fan of what ever happened to Baby Jane? Thank you for all the research and effort. I truly l enjoyed this.
Excellent video! I love this musical much more than I probably should. Also, “I don’t care what it is, you either play me or pay me” is 100% my new life motto. Take from that what you will, idc. Haha
I loved this video. I first saw Gypsy (twice ) on Broadway in 1990, with Tyne Daly, and Linda Lavin, as Rose. I’ve been a huge fan of it ever since. I also saw the later Broadway revival starring Bernadette Peters, and felt she was miscast in the role of Rose. But now, after watching this video, I see that Gypsy Rose Lee’s description of her mother… Bernadette Peters fits it better than any other actress who played the role on Broadway or on film. 🤣
I read both Gypsy's and June's memoirs many, many years ago. Barely remember them now, but I do remember my reaction to them. Specifically, I remember that I'd noticed many contradictions between the books, as well as areas where they contradicted themselves. Between that and the fact that both of them portrayed their mother as... umm... a little short in the integrity department... I was mostly left thinking about how values can be passed down from generation to generation. They both portrayed a childhood in which it was totally normal to see their mother lie, cheat and steal (literally). And I think the whole thing where they seemed "allergic to the truth" is just a testiment to how hard it is to unlearn lessons learned in early childhood.
From my impressions of any versions of the musical, "Gypsy," I never had the impression that June was spoiled, just exploited, like the other children. She may have been "set apart" because she was perceived as having more talent than the others, but what a price she paid for it! Of course, who knows what really took place?
In 1983, my *High School* did a production of “Gypsy” - unthinkable in these moralistic times- and June Havoc was in town on tour. Somehow our director got her to come speak with us (kids!) - and I remember being blown away by how she was both incredibly glamorous and very very down to earth at the same time. In a word, elegant. She didn’t see our high school musical (thank god) but she gave us a full hour of storytelling and even a bit of dancing. It was marvelous.
My NYC dance-school rehearsal pianist, who had played in nightclubs since she was 15 and seen every great performer from 1910 on, always said she would pay the price of a Broadway show just to watch June Havoc walk across the stage.
Thanks for your work on this. Before viewing I had heard of Gypsy Rose Lee and her mother though the musical.I knew June havoc was an old time actress but had no idea she was Gypsy's sister. What do I take away? Gypsy was a lot more like her mother than she would like others to think she was. Though June came across as more polished, I suspect all three women were a hard bitten lot.
I've always been most fascinated by June, who had a very interesting and accomplished career, and got the last word in. I thinknk it's her absence in the second act that intrigues me too. Laurents described both sisters as being equally loose with the truth, and very much alike. Even listening and looking at them this comes through. It might be nice to know all the facts, but the mystery may be what keeps them interesting nearly a century later.
As an historian of old vaudeville wrote, you have no idea how talented, radiant and delightful Baby/Dainty June was. The June of the musical 'Gypsy' is cloying and second rate. I have concluded that the one glaring lie in the Mama Rose story is that she made and spent and stashed away a LOT of money she made off of June, who was sort of an original Shirley Temple.
2 adorable pre-pubescent young girls going cross-country to every theater there is with their mother, what could possibly go wrong? I'm sure the Hovac women's true story has some very dark passages indeed and it's a testament to each, of their strength and sheer bloody-mindedness, that they became as successful and put together as they were. also keeping mind this all happened between 1915 and 1930, before work safety, child welfare and woman's rights were even a glimmer in the air let alone actual laws of the land. At that time women and children were the property of their husbands and fathers and couldn't even vote. So any money they made was a closely held secret known only to Rose. Throw in WWI, the depression, men with unchecked entitlement, and sibling rivalry egged on by a doting stage mom for reaction, I'm sure there is much that happened that all 3 would rather not remember, who would? We wouldn't still be so fascinated 80 years later, if the story were happily ever after, now would we?
Did I get that right? June was upset that they said she was a bit older when she eloped (was it 14 in the play) instead of 12? Like that made it better? She was literally a child getting married to escape. I did want to compliment the makers of this. The archival footage and photos were amazing, and the in depth take on the subject was phenomenal. I will seek out your other videos
First and foremost your work here is Brillant. I had the sensation as I read and watched that of a detective on the hunt, and your curiousity and determination to uncover the truths was so well done. You took my favorite Broadway musical and showed us beneath the beads and glam the bittersweet truth of the matter. So well done.
Family lives are rarely cut-and-dried roles so I understand June's inability to vilify her mother or even say her sister's memoir wasn't factual. I think growing up in the theatre teaches you the benefits of a good story, what sells and you can't help feeling that these things become instinctive for all of them. I truly believe her mother was ruthless and driven; she needed to be, and her dreams probably drove her to want success for her kids. Sometimes you love your mother and you don't know why. Things you understand as a kid make no sense as an adult (sometimes) and vice versa. Life is complicated and I feel you've hit that tone very well.
@@louis-mariedesaintecroix9866 ... just as an aside, you know you can edit your posts no matter how long its been up, right? The top, right-hand corner by your post has 3 dots. Click on that and hit edit. As a person with ADHD, there are a lot of times I tend to hit "post" BEFORE I proofread. So, the edit function and I are very good friends!
That was a fascinating video. Thanks for the hard work and the mounds of research. At the end of it all I believe that Rose, June and Gypsy were both victims and victimizers. They did what they needed to do to survive and ultimately to thrive at a time when the odds were stacked against them. Their story is truly amazing.
Speaking as someone who grew up in an abusive home: it's entirely possible to lie to yourself so much about what really happened that it quite simply becomes true, for you. Even with evidence to the contrary. No one really wants to believe their mother would be unkind, I think. Certainly I went through phenomenal mental contortions to try and explain, justify, rationalize the things my mother and other family members did. And even when you do accept that what happened, happened, it is still very possible to love the person who hurt you so. While the contradictions are vexing, I think the feelings are entirely true - on all sides of the story.
Am I the only one who is left believing that Rose was likely a dangerous sociopath? According to different people, Rose: - Killed her children’s kitten. - Lied so much about her children’s ages that they never knew how old they were. - Stole from her father. - Caused someone’s death by pushing them out of a window. - Made her daughter June dance on her toes at 2, a practice that is prohibited because it causes deformities and disabilities in developing children. - Made her child cry for a scene by telling her that her dog had died. - Threatened to send her daughter away (to a relative or orphanage) because the daughter was no longer a help to the act. - Was so awful as a mother that her daughter ran away at 12ish.
This was such an interesting video. The point on June being remembered as Gypsy’s sister makes me think about every other person who has been recalled as “family member of BLANK”.
To get a deep er understanding of June Havoc, you should read or see a production of her Broadway play “Marathon 33”. It partially chronicles her life after she left her mother. Having designed a production of this in the most appropriate type of theater ( a theater in the round created within a former gymnasium with an upper running track), at New York’s American Academy of Dramatic Arts, when June came to see a performance, she remarked that it did bring her back to the time that she was writing about, even to that we had various people tossing pennies at the marathon dancers. Especially from the running track. And none of the performers would know where or when a coin might fall or hit them. That our production would truly depict the desperation if those who were forced to do such things just to survive. She also said that sh wrote it to expose the reality shock that happened to many Vaudeville performers when Vaudeville was dying and performers either had to change or perish. For a person of June’s talent, and youth, she was not centered on one aspect of performance and she felt her mother was not facing the fact of the changing world. . While Rose had taught her daughters the necessary drive to survive in the entertainment business, she was seemingly stuck in the groove where she had achieved the success of her daughter and would not let go of the past. June was a good dramatic actress. And was able to continue with her career but not as she might have initially imagined as a 12 year old. Louise, was finally able to connect with her comic ability and became respected despite being known initially as a stripper.to the extent, that she was welcomed to appear on television panel shows despite the censorship that was ever present. Both loved their mother Rose but like all growing children, would become frustrated with her denial of youth growing up. That is why June called Gypsy a fantasy.
Every family is a mystery, especially to its members. I don't think Mama Rose in the musical is a monster. Monstrous, yes, but in Rose's Turn you discover her own mother withheld love from her; you begin to feel compassion and understanding.
Nonetheless, those were only her intentions. In the musical, we see multiple scenes where she disregards her children’s feeling, gaslights Louise, and guiltrips her. Not to mention, Louise even says something like, “I like my life because it’s finally mine I’m living.” at the end. This details the level of control Rose had on her children. You can even see that Rose wanted spotlight and was using her children to get it. She admits it herself. I always try to see things from different perspectives, but this is one that’s hard for me because of my own trauma.
@@thepanda1044 again, it’s hard for me to empathize with her because of my own experiences, so though I understand that she is layered and not all bad, my brain mostly considers the bad when looking at her character.
I watched with fascination. Thank you for giving a balanced view. I barely remember Gypsy's TV show, but until the movie with Roz Russell, was ignorant of the back story. Russell made Rose seem charming and sympathetic, not the mother from hell who ruined her family and her children's entire lives. We all invent the story of our own lives, so it's no mystery that everyone's account differs from the other's, and from their own at times.
Another great behind the scenes, or between the pages of a beloved Broadway show. Do people really take literally what is brought to life on a stage of musical theater? I should hope not, yet we here in the colonies have donald trump to belie that theory. His television show portraying him as a successful businessman propelled him to the White House. Loved your analysis. I was surprised to learn that Baby June went on to become a movie star. And her elevating Rose to the epitome of motherhood is to be expected. That happens often with abused children. Great show! Thank you.
@@HuntingViolets You're correct. It's how the rumor started that Craig wrote The G-String Murders. (Craig did not.) I wrote a bio of Craig Rice, and she was equally loose with the true in terms of her own history.
I'm also old enough to remember Gypsy from television guest spots and talk shows; I actually knew who she was long before I first heard GYPSY or knew who June Havoc was.
I read her sons biography of her. Yes gypsy is larger than life, but so was she. Oh my gosh in her 60’s I believe it was she took a role in a play called Annie Get Your Gun. She ran up and down from the stage to the back of the theater and all around. That’s pretty good
I first saw Gypsy on tv in the early 1970"s no doubt on a weekend movie that used to play on many next works in place of the weekly daytime talk shows and soap operas during the work week. loved it I was a big musical fan and I loved the Natalie Wood /Rosalind Russell, The first time I saw Gypsy Rose Lee when she appeared in a small part in a Rosiland Russell/ Hayley Mills film 'The trouble with Angels' of course I did not make the connection until a few years later when I started paying attention to movie credits I think Gypsy Rose Lee was a fascinating woman and have always been interested in learning more about her. Thanks for posting this video enjoyed it very much.
Having been raised by a mother who was a full blown narcissist, but who felt she was a terrific mother and also wanted more children than the three she birthed, I feel a connection to this story. The girls were exploited, no question. That type of bizarre upbringing leads to a low level of education, exposure to inappropriate situations for girls that age, examples set by parental figures which set the girls up for a difficult adult life and general emotional trauma. All that manipulation of the truth is a direct result of that trauma. Their lives were fractured and the only way to survive that was to "create" a more palatable story. My mother passed away 5 years ago and to this day her stranglehold on our lives and mental health still exists. It still colors our choices, our families, our lifestyles. I don't know if I will ever be free of it.
I read a story about Minsky's, and there was a dancer who inspired Gypsy. As a little girl I had a stage mother, and acted and sang as Gypsy Rose Lee for my family.
Any family beset by conflict is going to be seen differently by every member of said family. Some in denial, some exaggerating, some hardly remembering at all. It’s very human which is part of what makes Gypsy so compelling.
I am curious as to why, in 1980, June Havoc said that she and Louise Havoc "never appeared on the same stage together", but I mean, how can that be true when there are all these photographs that show them together as performers? Also, June laments that Louise was "the beautiful one" when early photos of Louise Havoc depict a fairly plain girl ~ I would really be curious as to what is fact and what is fiction - Did they not appear in Vaudeville together at one time?
if i had a nickel for everytime a woman called Gypsy Rose had an overbearing mother i'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Enjoyed this tremendously. About the ‘truth’ about the people and personalities involved: think Rashomon, each person is the star of their own life. I will say: why would young Preminger expect his mother to support him and not his rich, famous father - or even himself.
Coming back to say YOU INSPIRED ME! I pulled American Rose and I’m already 112 pages in. I LOVE the format, telling the story from the beginning, and the end. After a year of teaching my kids, I earned fun reading, so this summer, I’m finally cracking all “my” books I’ve hoarded this year. Hamilton characters and Gypsy Rose, lol.
@@amylou22snowhite Thank you :)! I'm glad you liked the video. I hope you enjoy your fun-reading. There's definitely a lot of entertaining material when it comes to the Hovick's lives and the drama/successes that followed them. Entertainers til the very end :)!
@@TheDramaDorks back to say that I LOVED American Rose. I could not put it down. The writer does such a great job of pacing a timelines. I’m almost half way through the Gypsy memoir now. Which June did you read and like, since you started me on this, dangit. Pssss. Thank you. ❤️🥰
half their diaries were about their mother. that says a lot about the mother's desire to let them become healthy independent adults. she could not care less about the well-being of her daughters.
One thing worth thinking about is the attachment of Merman to the musical. No-one else is going to be the star. Sondheim has said that he took the lyricist role to learn how to write a role for a dominant star.
What I find fascinating, is how naturally beautiful these women are. Even later in life, they retain their natural beauty and stunning figures. I would have loved to have a dinner and evening with Gypsie what a hoot I imagine it would be. I would love to do the same with June and ask her about old Hollywood. Incredible women who learned how to survive from their Mother, for the time she was a real survivor. I only knew about these gals from seeing the movie on television when I was a child. I thought the strippers were glamorous and fun, I love Gypsies costumes. 🎉
I believe when one says that when different people are sharing their stories about the same topic, in this case, their mother, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Havoc never had the success that her sister had although she was supposed to have the talent. I think I have seen her in one classic film, "Gentleman's Agreement" with Gregory Peck, where she played the secretary and a couple of things I've read about on stage, like "Pal Joey." Gypsy, however, made the best of what she had and according to a non fiction book I read several years ago about a house in Brooklyn which was shared amongst famous people seeking to learn from one another...Gypsy was there, too, learning how to write. Learning how to have an intelligent conversation when out and about. June Havoc...eh? If asked today who is June Havoc, no one under the age of 80 would know. You ask about her sister, everyone knows. Her strip, too, was never just a strip but a tease. She was used in films along side major actors in stage and screen during WWII to perform her strips, which she did and, of course, she would pull a hair ribbon, hat, hat pin, etc...but no one saw anything "untoward"! The musical, despite Mr. Laurent's lamenting about it is considered one of the most important shows ever written and it, along with many others, made him rich and famous. Just saying.
I went to see the musical Annie on Broadway in 1982. I didn’t know who Ms. Havoc was at the time. I saved the playbill and she is billed as Miss Hannigan.
I never got the impression from the musical that June was a bad person. Or even that the mother was a bad person. They were all trying to survive. Yes, I get that Gypsy wanted to break free of her mother's control. That must have been hard to put up with. I'm just saying that there were reasons why she acted that way -- at least in the musical. But as for which POV is the true one, well, there is no one true POV. Ever. If I were to write my extremely boring memoir, I'd get letters from all my relatives telling me I was wrong. That I was a liar. That it didn't happen that way. I think the same thing would happen to everyone. Mother Rose had her POV, and thought she was right. June had her POV, and thought she was right. And naturally Gypsy had her own way of seeing things, and believed that she was in the right. And then, for the musical, writers and directors got involved and arranged things to entertain people, thus changing the narrative.
June's sugar coating of her childhood is reminiscent of the way my grandmother ( born near same years as June and Louise) would retell her life and seemingly defend it. I think the culture of that time was not to talk about your trauma because that's shameful to oneself.
If June hadn't run away, there would never have been a Gypsy Rose Lee. Her claiming how much she loved her childhood is glib to say the least. I've read both hers and G's memoirs, and June seemed disappointed when she reappeared in her mother's life and didn't get a brass band reception, even though she'd left her mother, her sister and the other members of the act in the lurch. She did admit that Gypsy was more receptive and friendly and offered to get her work in the only field she knew (burlesque) but J was having none of that.
One thing you fail to acknowledge, and that is a MEMOIR isn't and AUTOBIOGRAPHY. My favorite distinction between them goes like this, "An autobiography is the way it happened. A memoir is the way we WANT it to have happened". Neither sister wrote an autobiography. Both wrote memoirs.
Am I really seeing Rosalind Russell, Bette Midler and Bernadette Peters as Rose? Please detail some of the other actresses and singers who played her and are seen here?
I think it shows that women have always had it tough, and to try and achieve success in a patriarchal society drives women like Rose into doing things their peers would consider desperate.
if you watch the musical and see rose as anything other than a villain, you're disgusting. it is plain this is an abusive mother using and controlling her daughters for personal gain
... terrific job!.. altho' the Ellen inclusion was an unnecessary unkind moment I thought... in fact it's intent distracted me from the presentation for quite some time... as I said.... a message to the writer... revealingly unnecessary in fact....
2 years late to the conversation, but it made me laugh when you cited that Rose was probably born in North Dakota because the chances she was born in the southwestern corner of the state (you showed images of the Badlands) is probably really unlikely. The majority of North Dakota is flat 😂 Like, think Kansas levels
@@kallen868 Never saw Merman. Didn't like Russell. Saw Lansbury. She was great. Didn't see Tyne. Bernadette was wrong for the role. Lupone was good. You left out Bette Midler. I liked her as Madame Rose. So Lansbury, Lupone, and Midler are my favorites.
FWIW, Indict is pronounced "in-dite" Edited to add: 28:38 what is up with that neckline? It's like the dress stops just above the nipples, flattens the breasts down, and then drapes a wired...valance? to imply large breasts?
Always found it so sad that June Havoc's takeaway from the musical was that she came off looking bad somehow. Every version I've seen, June is portrayed as talented and wanting to pursue legit education, but being stymied by her mother's desperation. She never comes off as looking jealous of Gypsy in the least, nor being selfish by running away.
I don't know if what I get from that is what she felt but to me it sounded a bit like she thought she came off bad because she was a catalyst for the primary change. Regardless of if you can understand why someone did something and can even feel for them, that role as bad guy is still set in stone.
Same!! I am even confounded by this creator’s repeatedly calling June “spoiled” and “bratty”-- I don’t think there’s any material in the show that paints her as such ;; It presents her as favored over Louise, YES- receiving better treatment, more acclaim and perhaps (sometimes) more comfort- ((but not *Much more* )) - I suppose when one child is treated better, you might describe them as being *spoiled* by the parent, but I would not say the character of June herself is “spoiled” as a personality trait. Any favoritism, in my opinion, was not given because of any real care or respect to June’s thoughts or wants, but used as manipulation and triangulation against Louise/ (anyone else.). June looks and performs how her mother wants - so she is rewarded. She rewards the behavior that benefits HER ;; I don’t think EITHER of the girls’ feelings were treated as priority at all. Now, a child may not realize this until later in life, so the favoritism** WOULD influence the perception/ and personalities of both girls - but I have never noted an indication in any production of Gypsy (and certainly not in the text), that the character of June is “bratty” - at all. I have always found the character very sympathetic, despite not being terribly developed.
As a former dance teacher, no child should be on pointe until the age of at least 12 years old - to prevent major damage to growing feet. Great video 💗
You're absolutely right. I went on pointe in third grade (age 10?) and the bone of the second smallest toe is actually curved. It doesn't affect me in any way, but you can immediately spot my feet as "dancer's feet."
@@Gail1Marie that's why, as teachers, we need to be aware of potential damage. I have square feet with a high instep! That's my natural shape at least 💗
Hi, this is Carolyn Quinn, the Author of MAMA ROSE'S TURN. This is a FANTASTIC video that you made here and it's very well done. I still wonder about the inconsistencies between the musical and the various versions of the truth. BRAVO! The Drama Dorks RULE!
Thank you so much, Carolyn. I always wondered/hoped if you would stumble across this video. I am soo glad that you enjoyed it. Thank you for all your hard work on documenting the lives of these fabulous women, it's very much appreciated.
All this video makes me conclude is that people are complicated and multifaceted, and their relationships are a tangled web of emotions, memories, and changing personalities. Something as cut throat as show business would only make the whole situation more extreme.
I had my doubts about this video essay when it began with the heavy duty Mozart, but it ended up being very thoughtful and well done. Hooray for real narrators and no AI voice! I was glad to hear so much about June Havoc. Holy crap, was she really married at 12 years old? Both sisters were complicated people. Beautiful, strong, creative women, making the best of their talents and opportunities. They genuinely loved their mom. Great work Drama Dorks!
The original production of "Gypsy" ended with Merman hitting the last note of "for me" in "Rose's Turn" and the curtain coming down. They added the sugary mother/daughter reconciliation scene because out-of-towners just couldn't take that perfect, dramatic but downer ending.
@@MrCrowebobby I don't find it saccharine in the least. Not when it's played well. And it has been by Merman, Lansbury, Daly and Lupone. It ends with an uneasy truce. The writing is sharp and funny and it ends the evening in a satisfying way. It is, above all. an entertainment. It's the reason the show is revived again and again.
For me, the success of the added-on ending really hinges on the chemistry of the lead actresses. Natalie Wood and Rosalind Russell got it right, creating one of the stronger scenes in the 1962 film adaptation. That said, Bette Midler's TV version 31 years later is overall the more polished production.
Watching this again, there is only one Rose for me and that's Merman. It's amazing how June and Gypsy were both unsatisfied despite success and fame, but then I think of Bob Fosse and how despite having the most successful career a dancer could dream of, he was never satisfied because he wasn't Fred Astaire.
I undetstand how June would be suspicious of Louise's account of life with their morher. However, June should have realized that she eloped and left home at 16, and she could not know of the pressure and anger and abuse Rose may have unleashed on Louise--the daughter she didnt want and considered inferior. To sum up how Louise felt about her mother; when Louise was dying of cancer and June came to visit. When asked how she was feeling Louise replied that she believed their mother had gotten the last laugh.
Supposedly, on her deathbed, Rose promised to claw her way back from the grave, and drag Louise and June back down with her. i can't remember which book that may have been in.
You also have to remember that June was the favoured child out of the twojj (and yes I'm basing this almost solely on the Gypsy musical) so it makes sense that her perspectives about that time, and her mother in particular, would differ from Louise's.
Thank you for this video. I've worked on several productions of "Gypsy," and marveled at how much the character of June is required to do. Of course, I know that we are dealing with a work of fiction "inspired" by true events, and there's no time to go into her character in the show. But just watching those young child actors "sing out, Baby" at the tops of their lungs, perform acrobatic dancing and literally hold the vaudeville act together through that long, brilliant first act, always makes me wish that there were just one moment when the character of June gets to relate what it's to bear all that responsibility from such a young age.
"Annie Get Your Gun", supposedly about Annie Oakley, is pure fiction. Phoebe Ann Moses, who would perform as Annie Oakley, came from a quiet family. Her husband, Frank Butler, never minded that she was the better marksman. They adored each other right from the start. They didn't have to be tricked into marrying each other.
Oh, yes. Annie's story was changed, I truly believe, to fit a misogynistic narrative that was fighting truth and nail at the time to remain powerful. There were other plays and movies at the time that were trying to convince women to stay in their place. Annie Oakley was pretty much a feminist of her time. And her husband was perfectly happy to tell everyone that his wife was the better shot. And the writers got a hold of the story and turned it inside out. Deliberately.
I've played in the pit orchestra of Gypsy more times than I can tell you. It's not a hard score to play, but it's one of my favorites. I'm a "wind player" which means I play all of the woodwind instruments. In the first half of the show I mostly play flute and clarinet. Once gypsy gets into burlesque, I rarely pick up my flute/piccolo. It's pretty much saxophone all the way to the end. I sort of think of my flute as Louise and her innocence. Once Gypsy (the saxophone) enters the picture, there's no turning back.
Edit: in regard to 'May/Let me entertain you'. June and Louise sing 'May We' as the kid's number. Older Louise sings 'Let me'. In the scene prior, Rose is searching for music and finds 'May we Entertain You' - but instead calls it 'Let Me'. In context to the video - I said that Rose suggests she sing 'May we' - the song choice is correct but the title has slightly changed. I just wanted to highlight that Rose wanted Older Louise to sing the song that June sang as a child which is 'May we Entertain you'.
Thanks for watching guys! This was way longer than I intended it to be, but I’m super proud of it ❤️! There were many nights where I just sat so befuddled on how to do these swell ladies justice, and I only hope I achieved that. Please like, subscribe & share with your fictionalised stage mother 💃🎭🌹!
It is okay in Hollywood to be a stripper but not to advertise it. If people know, that`s it. You`re finished. Gypsy or Rose and June were so much better than what they got to do, the success or lack of it they achieved or did not.
It was fascinating. I never knew the background of June. I am a big fan of what ever happened to Baby Jane? Thank you for all the research and effort. I truly l enjoyed this.
Just subscribed 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼💜
Bravo!!!
Excellent video! I love this musical much more than I probably should. Also, “I don’t care what it is, you either play me or pay me” is 100% my new life motto. Take from that what you will, idc. Haha
I loved this video. I first saw Gypsy (twice ) on Broadway in 1990, with Tyne Daly, and Linda Lavin, as Rose. I’ve been a huge fan of it ever since. I also saw the later Broadway revival starring Bernadette Peters, and felt she was miscast in the role of Rose. But now, after watching this video, I see that Gypsy Rose Lee’s description of her mother… Bernadette Peters fits it better than any other actress who played the role on Broadway or on film. 🤣
I read both Gypsy's and June's memoirs many, many years ago. Barely remember them now, but I do remember my reaction to them. Specifically, I remember that I'd noticed many contradictions between the books, as well as areas where they contradicted themselves. Between that and the fact that both of them portrayed their mother as... umm... a little short in the integrity department... I was mostly left thinking about how values can be passed down from generation to generation. They both portrayed a childhood in which it was totally normal to see their mother lie, cheat and steal (literally). And I think the whole thing where they seemed "allergic to the truth" is just a testiment to how hard it is to unlearn lessons learned in early childhood.
From my impressions of any versions of the musical, "Gypsy," I never had the impression that June was spoiled, just exploited, like the other children. She may have been "set apart" because she was perceived as having more talent than the others, but what a price she paid for it! Of course, who knows what really took place?
In 1983, my *High School* did a production of “Gypsy” - unthinkable in these moralistic times- and June Havoc was in town on tour. Somehow our director got her to come speak with us (kids!) - and I remember being blown away by how she was both incredibly glamorous and very very down to earth at the same time. In a word, elegant.
She didn’t see our high school musical (thank god) but she gave us a full hour of storytelling and even a bit of dancing. It was marvelous.
My NYC dance-school rehearsal pianist, who had played in nightclubs since she was 15 and seen every great performer from 1910 on, always said she would pay the price of a Broadway show just to watch June Havoc walk across the stage.
First of all, great story! Secondly, I’m here to shock you! My high school did this play in the year 2008! 😬😂
Thanks for your work on this. Before viewing I had heard of Gypsy Rose Lee and her mother though the musical.I knew June havoc was an old time actress but had no idea she was Gypsy's sister. What do I take away? Gypsy was a lot more like her mother than she would like others to think she was. Though June came across as more polished, I suspect all three women were a hard bitten lot.
I would love to see ur take on Fanny Brice and the musical Funny Girl
Actually others have done it. Very interesting as well. Look them up. I'm sure you'll enjoy them!
I've always been most fascinated by June, who had a very interesting and accomplished career, and got the last word in. I thinknk it's her absence in the second act that intrigues me too. Laurents described both sisters as being equally loose with the truth, and very much alike. Even listening and looking at them this comes through. It might be nice to know all the facts, but the mystery may be what keeps them interesting nearly a century later.
As an historian of old vaudeville wrote, you have no idea how talented, radiant and delightful Baby/Dainty June was. The June of the musical 'Gypsy' is cloying and second rate. I have concluded that the one glaring lie in the Mama Rose story is that she made and spent and stashed away a LOT of money she made off of June, who was sort of an original Shirley Temple.
Baby June was also the templet for Baby Jane in the cult horror/thriller Whatever Happened To Baby Jane?
Any two-year-old on pointe would be something to see. I hate to think what her feet looked like at the end of her life, though.
Timestamps 🎭💃🌹 :
1:37 - Intro
4:18 - Musical summary
12:03 - The Memoir that wreaked Havoc
17:54 - Rose Thompson Hovick
31:31 - June Havoc
45:28 - Gypsy Rose Lee
55:00 - Conclusion
57:05 - Credits
🌹🌹🌹
2 adorable pre-pubescent young girls going cross-country to every theater there is with their mother, what could possibly go wrong? I'm sure the Hovac women's true story has some very dark passages indeed and it's a testament to each, of their strength and sheer bloody-mindedness, that they became as successful and put together as they were.
also keeping mind this all happened between 1915 and 1930, before work safety, child welfare and woman's rights were even a glimmer in the air let alone actual laws of the land. At that time women and children were the property of their husbands and fathers and couldn't even vote. So any money they made was a closely held secret known only to Rose. Throw in WWI, the depression, men with unchecked entitlement, and sibling rivalry egged on by a doting stage mom for reaction, I'm sure there is much that happened that all 3 would rather not remember, who would?
We wouldn't still be so fascinated 80 years later, if the story were happily ever after, now would we?
... perfectly recognised & articulated ... thank you.. I'd say...
Did I get that right? June was upset that they said she was a bit older when she eloped (was it 14 in the play) instead of 12? Like that made it better? She was literally a child getting married to escape. I did want to compliment the makers of this. The archival footage and photos were amazing, and the in depth take on the subject was phenomenal. I will seek out your other videos
First and foremost your work here is Brillant. I had the sensation as I read and watched that of a detective on the hunt, and your curiousity and determination to uncover the truths was so well done. You took my favorite Broadway musical and showed us beneath the beads and glam the bittersweet truth of the matter. So well done.
Family lives are rarely cut-and-dried roles so I understand June's inability to vilify her mother or even say her sister's memoir wasn't factual. I think growing up in the theatre teaches you the benefits of a good story, what sells and you can't help feeling that these things become instinctive for all of them. I truly believe her mother was ruthless and driven; she needed to be, and her dreams probably drove her to want success for her kids. Sometimes you love your mother and you don't know why. Things you understand as a kid make no sense as an adult (sometimes) and vice versa. Life is complicated and I feel you've hit that tone very well.
Loved the reference with "Whatever happened to Baby June?"
"Whatever Happened to Baby Jane".
June was a legend in her own right
Both her and Gypsy had several good Hollywood films, wrote books, and were very talented.
I saw June Havoc as Mrs. Lovett in a touring production of “Sweeney Todd” in Toronto in around 1981. She couldn’t really sing it, but had presence.
As a child in Vaudeville, Baby June had a great voice.
I've just binge-watched all of your videos, your channel is a gem, keep on the good work!
Keep up*
@@louis-mariedesaintecroix9866 ... just as an aside, you know you can edit your posts no matter how long its been up, right? The top, right-hand corner by your post has 3 dots. Click on that and hit edit. As a person with ADHD, there are a lot of times I tend to hit "post" BEFORE I proofread. So, the edit function and I are very good friends!
I would love for some one to write a Broadway show of Junes book Early Havoc.
Her marathon life would make a great musical.
there is one! marathon 33, it’s called 😊 june wrote it
That was a fascinating video. Thanks for the hard work and the mounds of research. At the end of it all I believe that Rose, June and Gypsy were both victims and victimizers. They did what they needed to do to survive and ultimately to thrive at a time when the odds were stacked against them. Their story is truly amazing.
Speaking as someone who grew up in an abusive home: it's entirely possible to lie to yourself so much about what really happened that it quite simply becomes true, for you. Even with evidence to the contrary. No one really wants to believe their mother would be unkind, I think. Certainly I went through phenomenal mental contortions to try and explain, justify, rationalize the things my mother and other family members did. And even when you do accept that what happened, happened, it is still very possible to love the person who hurt you so. While the contradictions are vexing, I think the feelings are entirely true - on all sides of the story.
Am I the only one who is left believing that Rose was likely a dangerous sociopath? According to different people, Rose:
- Killed her children’s kitten.
- Lied so much about her children’s ages that they never knew how old they were.
- Stole from her father.
- Caused someone’s death by pushing them out of a window.
- Made her daughter June dance on her toes at 2, a practice that is prohibited because it causes deformities and disabilities in developing children.
- Made her child cry for a scene by telling her that her dog had died.
- Threatened to send her daughter away (to a relative or orphanage) because the daughter was no longer a help to the act.
- Was so awful as a mother that her daughter ran away at 12ish.
I'm with you. She was a scary person.
lol... yup ... that was mamma!! :D
I heard the person she pushed out the window tried to rape her.
Na I think she was just entitled. The original KAREN
This was such an interesting video. The point on June being remembered as Gypsy’s sister makes me think about every other person who has been recalled as “family member of BLANK”.
To get a deep er understanding of June Havoc, you should read or see a production of her Broadway play “Marathon 33”.
It partially chronicles her life after she left her mother.
Having designed a production of this in the most appropriate type of theater ( a theater in the round created within a former gymnasium with an upper running track), at New York’s American Academy of Dramatic Arts, when June came to see a performance, she remarked that it did bring her back to the time that she was writing about, even to that we had various people tossing pennies at the marathon dancers. Especially from the running track. And none of the performers would know where or when a coin might fall or hit them. That our production would truly depict the desperation if those who were forced to do such things just to survive.
She also said that sh wrote it to expose the reality shock that happened to many Vaudeville performers when Vaudeville was dying and performers either had to change or perish. For a person of June’s talent, and youth, she was not centered on one aspect of performance and she felt her mother was not facing the fact of the changing world. . While Rose had taught her daughters the necessary drive to survive in the entertainment business, she was seemingly stuck in the groove where she had achieved the success of her daughter and would not let go of the past. June was a good dramatic actress. And was able to continue with her career but not as she might have initially imagined as a 12 year old.
Louise, was finally able to connect with her comic ability and became respected despite being known initially as a stripper.to the extent, that she was welcomed to appear on television panel shows despite the censorship that was ever present. Both loved their mother Rose but like all growing children, would become frustrated with her denial of youth growing up. That is why June called Gypsy a fantasy.
I've been told that my grandfather once fixed a watch for Gyspy Rose Lee.
Every family is a mystery, especially to its members. I don't think Mama Rose in the musical is a monster. Monstrous, yes, but in Rose's Turn you discover her own mother withheld love from her; you begin to feel compassion and understanding.
Nonetheless, those were only her intentions. In the musical, we see multiple scenes where she disregards her children’s feeling, gaslights Louise, and guiltrips her. Not to mention, Louise even says something like, “I like my life because it’s finally mine I’m living.” at the end. This details the level of control Rose had on her children. You can even see that Rose wanted spotlight and was using her children to get it. She admits it herself.
I always try to see things from different perspectives, but this is one that’s hard for me because of my own trauma.
@@imateakettleRose is a very complicated character.
@@thepanda1044 again, it’s hard for me to empathize with her because of my own experiences, so though I understand that she is layered and not all bad, my brain mostly considers the bad when looking at her character.
I watched with fascination. Thank you for giving a balanced view. I barely remember Gypsy's TV show, but until the movie with Roz Russell, was ignorant of the back story. Russell made Rose seem charming and sympathetic, not the mother from hell who ruined her family and her children's entire lives. We all invent the story of our own lives, so it's no mystery that everyone's account differs from the other's, and from their own at times.
Roz Russell played "Jolly Rose", and it just didn't work.
Another great behind the scenes, or between the pages of a beloved Broadway show. Do people really take literally what is brought to life on a stage of musical theater? I should hope not, yet we here in the colonies have donald trump to belie that theory. His television show portraying him as a successful businessman propelled him to the White House.
Loved your analysis. I was surprised to learn that Baby June went on to become a movie star. And her elevating Rose to the epitome of motherhood is to be expected. That happens often with abused children.
Great show! Thank you.
I ❤ the movie adaptation of the G String Murders starring Barbara Stanwick. Gypsy was such a chameleon and such an enigma.
Yes, 'Lady of Burlesque', it's a wonderful movie and free to view on youtube.
I believe The G-String Murders was ghost-written by Craig Rice.
@@HuntingViolets You're correct. It's how the rumor started that Craig wrote The G-String Murders. (Craig did not.) I wrote a bio of Craig Rice, and she was equally loose with the true in terms of her own history.
A complicated story with complicated characters told in an unbiased and balanced way. Well done!
I'm also old enough to remember Gypsy from television guest spots and talk shows; I actually knew who she was long before I first heard GYPSY or knew who June Havoc was.
i just listen to patty lupones roses turn
I read her sons biography of her. Yes gypsy is larger than life, but so was she. Oh my gosh in her 60’s I believe it was she took a role in a play called Annie Get Your Gun. She ran up and down from the stage to the back of the theater and all around. That’s pretty good
I first saw Gypsy on tv in the early 1970"s no doubt on a weekend movie that used to play on many next works in place of the weekly daytime talk shows and soap operas during the work week.
loved it I was a big musical fan and I loved the Natalie Wood /Rosalind Russell, The first time I saw Gypsy Rose Lee when she appeared in a small part in a Rosiland Russell/ Hayley Mills film 'The trouble with Angels' of course I did not make the connection until a few years later when I started paying attention to movie credits I think Gypsy Rose Lee was a fascinating woman and have always been interested in learning more about her. Thanks for posting this video enjoyed it very much.
I think they would all be very happy that people are still remembering and fascinated by them.
That was wonderful. I don't know what I think about the sisters & their mother, honestly, but I know I would have liked them.
Having been raised by a mother who was a full blown narcissist, but who felt she was a terrific mother and also wanted more children than the three she birthed, I feel a connection to this story. The girls were exploited, no question. That type of bizarre upbringing leads to a low level of education, exposure to inappropriate situations for girls that age, examples set by parental figures which set the girls up for a difficult adult life and general emotional trauma. All that manipulation of the truth is a direct result of that trauma. Their lives were fractured and the only way to survive that was to "create" a more palatable story. My mother passed away 5 years ago and to this day her stranglehold on our lives and mental health still exists. It still colors our choices, our families, our lifestyles. I don't know if I will ever be free of it.
I read a story about Minsky's, and there was a dancer who inspired Gypsy. As a little girl I had a stage mother, and acted and sang as Gypsy Rose Lee for my family.
Any family beset by conflict is going to be seen differently by every member of said family. Some in denial, some exaggerating, some hardly remembering at all. It’s very human which is part of what makes Gypsy so compelling.
I am curious as to why, in 1980, June Havoc said that she and Louise Havoc "never appeared on the same stage together", but I mean, how can that be true when there are all these photographs that show them together as performers? Also, June laments that Louise was "the beautiful one" when early photos of Louise Havoc depict a fairly plain girl ~ I would really be curious as to what is fact and what is fiction - Did they not appear in Vaudeville together at one time?
Yes, they appeared in vaudeville together for several years as children.
if i had a nickel for everytime a woman called Gypsy Rose had an overbearing mother i'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Enjoyed this tremendously. About the ‘truth’ about the people and personalities involved: think Rashomon, each person is the star of their own life. I will say: why would young Preminger expect his mother to support him and not his rich, famous father - or even himself.
Wow, how in depth and delightful!
I love your channel! This video is amazing!
I have multiple books on Gypsy waiting for summer, when I have downtime!
Coming back to say YOU INSPIRED ME! I pulled American Rose and I’m already 112 pages in.
I LOVE the format, telling the story from the beginning, and the end.
After a year of teaching my kids, I earned fun reading, so this summer, I’m finally cracking all “my” books I’ve hoarded this year.
Hamilton characters and Gypsy Rose, lol.
@@amylou22snowhite Thank you :)! I'm glad you liked the video. I hope you enjoy your fun-reading. There's definitely a lot of entertaining material when it comes to the Hovick's lives and the drama/successes that followed them. Entertainers til the very end :)!
@@TheDramaDorks back to say that I LOVED American Rose. I could not put it down. The writer does such a great job of pacing a timelines.
I’m almost half way through the Gypsy memoir now.
Which June did you read and like, since you started me on this, dangit.
Pssss. Thank you. ❤️🥰
I wish Cher would do a film of Gypsy and Me. From the book by Gypsy's son Erik. Great book would make a great musical too.
half their diaries were about their mother.
that says a lot about the mother's desire to let them become healthy independent adults.
she could not care less about the well-being of her daughters.
True or not true - the musical GYPSY is a great work of collaborative art.
“If ya want to make it - twinkle when you shake it !”
One thing worth thinking about is the attachment of Merman to the musical. No-one else is going to be the star. Sondheim has said that he took the lyricist role to learn how to write a role for a dominant star.
Merman was one of the greatest stars on Broadway. Along with Mary Martin.
What I find fascinating, is how naturally beautiful these women are. Even later in life, they retain their natural beauty and stunning figures. I would have loved to have a dinner and evening with Gypsie what a hoot I imagine it would be. I would love to do the same with June and ask her about old Hollywood. Incredible women who learned how to survive from their Mother, for the time she was a real survivor. I only knew about these gals from seeing the movie on television when I was a child. I thought the strippers were glamorous and fun, I love Gypsies costumes. 🎉
I must be terrible - I never believed the movie was accurate. I loved this, because I was curious about June Havoc. I enjoyed every minute.
Why did I laugh so hard at the aHeM thatT iS NoT coRreCt
Great video by the way👏👏👏
Gypsy & June were feuding long before Gypsy's book came out, due to June's jealousy that Gypsy was more famous than she was.
I believe when one says that when different people are sharing their stories about the same topic, in this case, their mother, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Havoc never had the success that her sister had although she was supposed to have the talent. I think I have seen her in one classic film, "Gentleman's Agreement" with Gregory Peck, where she played the secretary and a couple of things I've read about on stage, like "Pal Joey." Gypsy, however, made the best of what she had and according to a non fiction book I read several years ago about a house in Brooklyn which was shared amongst famous people seeking to learn from one another...Gypsy was there, too, learning how to write. Learning how to have an intelligent conversation when out and about. June Havoc...eh? If asked today who is June Havoc, no one under the age of 80 would know. You ask about her sister, everyone knows. Her strip, too, was never just a strip but a tease. She was used in films along side major actors in stage and screen during WWII to perform her strips, which she did and, of course, she would pull a hair ribbon, hat, hat pin, etc...but no one saw anything "untoward"! The musical, despite Mr. Laurent's lamenting about it is considered one of the most important shows ever written and it, along with many others, made him rich and famous. Just saying.
I went to see the musical Annie on Broadway in 1982. I didn’t know who Ms. Havoc was at the time. I saved the playbill and she is billed as Miss Hannigan.
I've seen clips. She was a hoot!
I’d love to see your take on Auntie Mame and Mame!
I never got the impression from the musical that June was a bad person. Or even that the mother was a bad person. They were all trying to survive. Yes, I get that Gypsy wanted to break free of her mother's control. That must have been hard to put up with. I'm just saying that there were reasons why she acted that way -- at least in the musical.
But as for which POV is the true one, well, there is no one true POV. Ever. If I were to write my extremely boring memoir, I'd get letters from all my relatives telling me I was wrong. That I was a liar. That it didn't happen that way. I think the same thing would happen to everyone. Mother Rose had her POV, and thought she was right. June had her POV, and thought she was right. And naturally Gypsy had her own way of seeing things, and believed that she was in the right.
And then, for the musical, writers and directors got involved and arranged things to entertain people, thus changing the narrative.
June's sugar coating of her childhood is reminiscent of the way my grandmother ( born near same years as June and Louise) would retell her life and seemingly defend it. I think the culture of that time was not to talk about your trauma because that's shameful to oneself.
Phenomenal video
Well done video.
It is a fabulous musical, that's all I can say. No conclusions, just enjoy.
Enjoyed it!
If June hadn't run away, there would never have been a Gypsy Rose Lee. Her claiming how much she loved her childhood is glib to say the least. I've read both hers and G's memoirs, and June seemed disappointed when she reappeared in her mother's life and didn't get a brass band reception, even though she'd left her mother, her sister and the other members of the act in the lurch. She did admit that Gypsy was more receptive and friendly and offered to get her work in the only field she knew (burlesque) but J was having none of that.
Ryan Murphy! Please do a Feud: Gypsy and June.
One thing you fail to acknowledge, and that is a MEMOIR isn't and AUTOBIOGRAPHY. My favorite distinction between them goes like this, "An autobiography is the way it happened. A memoir is the way we WANT it to have happened". Neither sister wrote an autobiography. Both wrote memoirs.
@15:18 - SHAAAAAAAAAAADE!!!!!!
I thought I was the only one who caught that!
Fascinating video
Am I really seeing Rosalind Russell, Bette Midler and Bernadette Peters as Rose? Please detail some of the other actresses and singers who played her and are seen here?
Can you do the true story of the sound of music and the king and I? Or funny girl?
Excellent documentary. Only weakness -- needs more Bernadette. Always, more Bernadette
Needs less Bernadette. She was wrong for the role of Madame Rose.
My favorite picture of Gypsy 45:46
I think it shows that women have always had it tough, and to try and achieve success in a patriarchal society drives women like Rose into doing things their peers would consider desperate.
Well done and interesting. I guess it’s your British bringing that causes you to change “let me entertain you” to “MAY we entertain you. 😛
Fable .... Her sister said it was what she wanted her life to be......
if you watch the musical and see rose as anything other than a villain, you're disgusting. it is plain this is an abusive mother using and controlling her daughters for personal gain
... terrific job!.. altho' the Ellen inclusion was an unnecessary unkind moment I thought... in fact it's intent distracted me from the presentation for quite some time... as I said.... a message to the writer... revealingly unnecessary in fact....
June knew she could make it on her own
2 years late to the conversation, but it made me laugh when you cited that Rose was probably born in North Dakota because the chances she was born in the southwestern corner of the state (you showed images of the Badlands) is probably really unlikely. The majority of North Dakota is flat 😂 Like, think Kansas levels
The only thing I know about it is Bette midler was in it
So many actresses have played it. Ethel Merman, Rosalind Russell, Angela Lansbury, Tyne Daly, Bernadette Peters, Patti Lupone.
@@kallen868 Never saw Merman. Didn't like Russell. Saw Lansbury. She was great. Didn't see Tyne. Bernadette was wrong for the role. Lupone was good. You left out Bette Midler. I liked her as Madame Rose. So Lansbury, Lupone, and Midler are my favorites.
Elizabeth Moss, young Louise 24:11 ...who knew?
True or not. It's my favorite musical next to West Side Story.
Could you do a similar run down for Fanny Brice/Funny Girl?
Not Jules Styne. It's Jule Styne.
It isn’t money hungry to insist on being paid
Arthur Laurents was not a very kind person.
Gypsy did the right thing and so did June ….
FWIW, Indict is pronounced "in-dite" Edited to add: 28:38 what is up with that neckline? It's like the dress stops just above the nipples, flattens the breasts down, and then drapes a wired...valance? to imply large breasts?
Always found it so sad that June Havoc's takeaway from the musical was that she came off looking bad somehow. Every version I've seen, June is portrayed as talented and wanting to pursue legit education, but being stymied by her mother's desperation. She never comes off as looking jealous of Gypsy in the least, nor being selfish by running away.
I don't know if what I get from that is what she felt but to me it sounded a bit like she thought she came off bad because she was a catalyst for the primary change. Regardless of if you can understand why someone did something and can even feel for them, that role as bad guy is still set in stone.
Historians odf old vaudeville exult "You have no idea how talented, charming and wonderful Baby June was.
Same!! I am even confounded by this creator’s repeatedly calling June “spoiled” and “bratty”-- I don’t think there’s any material in the show that paints her as such ;; It presents her as favored over Louise, YES- receiving better treatment, more acclaim and perhaps (sometimes) more comfort- ((but not *Much more* )) - I suppose when one child is treated better, you might describe them as being *spoiled* by the parent, but I would not say the character of June herself is “spoiled” as a personality trait. Any favoritism, in my opinion, was not given because of any real care or respect to June’s thoughts or wants, but used as manipulation and triangulation against Louise/ (anyone else.). June looks and performs how her mother wants - so she is rewarded. She rewards the behavior that benefits HER ;; I don’t think EITHER of the girls’ feelings were treated as priority at all. Now, a child may not realize this until later in life, so the favoritism** WOULD influence the perception/ and personalities of both girls - but I have never noted an indication in any production of Gypsy (and certainly not in the text), that the character of June is “bratty” - at all. I have always found the character very sympathetic, despite not being terribly developed.
I am inclined to believe they were ALL monstrous people and hiding much more then they will ever admit to. Those were rough and desperate times.
@@infonut you are so gross for calling two abused children monsters
As a former dance teacher, no child should be on pointe until the age of at least 12 years old - to prevent major damage to growing feet. Great video 💗
You're absolutely right. I went on pointe in third grade (age 10?) and the bone of the second smallest toe is actually curved. It doesn't affect me in any way, but you can immediately spot my feet as "dancer's feet."
@@Gail1Marie that's why, as teachers, we need to be aware of potential damage. I have square feet with a high instep! That's my natural shape at least 💗
Me too, age 9, bunion on right foot. Grateful it's not painful but it is ugly..
Every time a creator apologizes for a long video im so confused like the longer the better babayyy! Not a euphemism
I agree!
The most ironic thing in the whole story is that, due to the musical, Rose is probably the most famous of the three.
I think seeing the movie musical on TV as a child was my first exposure to Bette Middler.
Yrah? Maybe because of the musical.
Maybe today, but in her heyday, Gypsy Rose Lee was *very* well-known.
Gypsy Rose Lee was one of the best names in show business. How could anyone forget it once they heard it?!
Hi, this is Carolyn Quinn, the Author of MAMA ROSE'S TURN. This is a FANTASTIC video that you made here and it's very well done. I still wonder about the inconsistencies between the musical and the various versions of the truth. BRAVO! The Drama Dorks RULE!
Thank you so much, Carolyn. I always wondered/hoped if you would stumble across this video. I am soo glad that you enjoyed it. Thank you for all your hard work on documenting the lives of these fabulous women, it's very much appreciated.
@@TheDramaDorks Thank you! You can always get in touch with me through my website - www.carolynquinn.net.
All this video makes me conclude is that people are complicated and multifaceted, and their relationships are a tangled web of emotions, memories, and changing personalities. Something as cut throat as show business would only make the whole situation more extreme.
I had my doubts about this video essay when it began with the heavy duty Mozart, but it ended up being very thoughtful and well done. Hooray for real narrators and no AI voice! I was glad to hear so much about June Havoc. Holy crap, was she really married at 12 years old? Both sisters were complicated people. Beautiful, strong, creative women, making the best of their talents and opportunities. They genuinely loved their mom. Great work Drama Dorks!
June was actually the second woman to be nominated for the Tony for Best Director after Joan Littlewood for The Hostage in 1961.
The original production of "Gypsy" ended with Merman hitting the last note of "for me" in "Rose's Turn" and the curtain coming down. They added the sugary mother/daughter reconciliation scene because out-of-towners just couldn't take that perfect, dramatic but downer ending.
@@steveb1164 None of the Gypsy story is "true." But the original ending was infinitely more powerful than the "tacked on" rambling, saccharine ending.
@@MrCrowebobby I don't find it saccharine in the least. Not when it's played well. And it has been by Merman, Lansbury, Daly and Lupone. It ends with an uneasy truce. The writing is sharp and funny and it ends the evening in a satisfying way. It is, above all. an entertainment. It's the reason the show is revived again and again.
@@Kuxny If you prefer that ending, that's fine. I can't agree with you.
For me, the success of the added-on ending really hinges on the chemistry of the lead actresses. Natalie Wood and Rosalind Russell got it right, creating one of the stronger scenes in the 1962 film adaptation. That said, Bette Midler's TV version 31 years later is overall the more polished production.
@@Mezzotenor Film and stage are vastly different mediums. The same ending wouldn't have worked for both.
Gypsy/Louise was quite good in a comic role in the Haley Mills comedy, THE TROUBLE WITH ANGELS, as the dance instructor in a girls' boarding school.
I remember that she was hilarious!
Natalie Wood, actress in that role and as Gypsy
Watching this again, there is only one Rose for me and that's Merman. It's amazing how June and Gypsy were both unsatisfied despite success and fame, but then I think of Bob Fosse and how despite having the most successful career a dancer could dream of, he was never satisfied because he wasn't Fred Astaire.
I undetstand how June would be suspicious of Louise's account of life with their morher. However, June should have realized that she eloped and left home at 16, and she could not know of the pressure and anger and abuse Rose may have unleashed on Louise--the daughter she didnt want and considered inferior.
To sum up how Louise felt about her mother; when Louise was dying of cancer and June came to visit. When asked how she was feeling Louise replied that she believed their mother had gotten the last laugh.
@@steveb1164 I mean June admits what her real birthday probably was and we know when she got married. 16 was more likely.
@@steveb1164June's recollections are irrelevant to the math of it all.
Supposedly, on her deathbed, Rose promised to claw her way back from the grave, and drag Louise and June back down with her. i can't remember which book that may have been in.
You also have to remember that June was the favoured child out of the twojj (and yes I'm basing this almost solely on the Gypsy musical) so it makes sense that her perspectives about that time, and her mother in particular, would differ from Louise's.
Thank you for this video. I've worked on several productions of "Gypsy," and marveled at how much the character of June is required to do. Of course, I know that we are dealing with a work of fiction "inspired" by true events, and there's no time to go into her character in the show. But just watching those young child actors "sing out, Baby" at the tops of their lungs, perform acrobatic dancing and literally hold the vaudeville act together through that long, brilliant first act, always makes me wish that there were just one moment when the character of June gets to relate what it's to bear all that responsibility from such a young age.
"Annie Get Your Gun", supposedly about Annie Oakley, is pure fiction. Phoebe Ann Moses, who would perform as Annie Oakley, came from a quiet family. Her husband, Frank Butler, never minded that she was the better marksman. They adored each other right from the start. They didn't have to be tricked into marrying each other.
Oh, yes. Annie's story was changed, I truly believe, to fit a misogynistic narrative that was fighting truth and nail at the time to remain powerful. There were other plays and movies at the time that were trying to convince women to stay in their place. Annie Oakley was pretty much a feminist of her time. And her husband was perfectly happy to tell everyone that his wife was the better shot. And the writers got a hold of the story and turned it inside out. Deliberately.
I've played in the pit orchestra of Gypsy more times than I can tell you. It's not a hard score to play, but it's one of my favorites. I'm a "wind player" which means I play all of the woodwind instruments. In the first half of the show I mostly play flute and clarinet. Once gypsy gets into burlesque, I rarely pick up my flute/piccolo. It's pretty much saxophone all the way to the end.
I sort of think of my flute as Louise and her innocence. Once Gypsy (the saxophone) enters the picture, there's no turning back.
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