Egyptian Origins of Israelite Monotheism?
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Did ancient Israelites adopt monotheism from the Egyptians? Dr. Kara Cooney joins Megan to talk about this controversial topic.
Dr. Cooney is a professor of Egyptian Art and Architecture at UCLA, and specializes in craft production, coffin studies, and economies in the ancient world. She is the author of "Good Kings: Absolute Power in Ancient Egypt and the Modern World", "When Women Ruled the World: Six Queens of Egypt", and "The Woman Who Would Be King: Hatshepsut's Rise to Power in Ancient Egypt".
Dr. Cooney on Twitter: / karacooney
Ancient Afterlives Podcast: karacooney.squa...
Super interesting idea. Love to learn about ancient Egypt and mesopotamia instead of constantly looking at the ancient Greeks and Hebrew Bible.
Loved this discussion, have long felt way too uninformed about Egyptian monotheism and this conversation peeled away some of that ignorance. Thanks uploader!
Monotheism is a misleading term for describing any pre-modern religion (including the Abrahamics). Monolatrous henotheism is a better description for premodern christianity. Akhenaten was monolatrous.
@@tsemayekekema2918Is not.
@@seivaDsugnA
Is too.
{:o:O:}
Loved this conversation with Dr. Conney! I learned a lot, but more importantly I was given a lot to think about.
Henry 8 of England made protestantism the state religion with him as its head, to take away the power of the Rome priesthood. Akenaten just done the same thing 2800 years earlier, taking the power away from the amun priesthood.
Well.....in a manner of speaking
Henry VIII
No, not really. The king had the hots for his wife's maid in waiting and wanted to rid himself of Queen Katherine, his first wife. Also, he was hard up for money and wanted to acquire the vast wealth of the monasteries by dissolving the religious orders.
@@zeddeka😂
Nice observation
I have read a lot of time ago about Akhenaten (I was then a catholic adolescent in a religious school) and how his believings lasted a short time only, the book I read expressed that the high priests told him that Aten where for Pharaohs only and Amon was for the common people. That people in general was not ready for just one god, they nedeed a myriad of them to get functioning every day in real life. Hearing know that Aten could be knew by the israelites and thinking that afterwards appeared christianism with the saints, is like saying the history rewrites itself all the time. Beautiful conference.
I loved the last 10 minutes of this interview. Especially the last 6 minutes. Thanks Kara and Megan.
Fantastic talk. Just found your channel. Great watch!
The origin of monoteism or a "creator god" goes further back then the reign of Akhenaten. Namely in Knuhm and Atum or other variants. Knuhm. Egyptian creator god thought to be the creator of the bodies of human children made at a potter's wheel, from clay. Sounds familiar? Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Lord, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.
Wow this was awesome! More Dr Cooney please
Love that she didn't shrink from the present day implications.
The Kuntillet ‘Ajrud inscriptions mention blessings by the names of YHWH of Samaria (Yehowah) and YHWH of Teman (Yahweh).
Like all ancient Near Eastern gods, these two regional gods must have had central temples.
This article examines their possible locations and suggests that the combination of the Kuntillet ‘Ajrud inscriptions with the eighth-century prophecies of Amos and Hosea holds the key for identifying these.
In light of a detailed analysis of Hosea’s and Amos’ prophecies, it is further suggested that YHWH of Samaria was the name of the major God of the Kingdom of Israel and his main temple was located at Bethel, and that YHWH of Teman was the name of the God of the southern desert regions and his temple was located at Beer-sheba.
Israelite traders who traveled southward probably visited the latter god’s temple, offered him sacrifices, made vows to repay him if they succeed in the expedition, and thus turned him to be their patron god during their travel in the desert region.
This suggested identification explains why the Judahite cult place of Beer-sheba appears in Amos’ prophecy alongside the Israelite sanctuaries of Bethel, Gilgal, and Dan.
It would be really interesting to compare Judaism (in the Bible) with Egyptian religion and see how they match up. I was struck a few years ago (coming from a Christian bg) when I went to Egypt and saw like a golden calf and many “familiar” themes which they obvs didn’t borrow from the Bible but which the Bible must’ve borrowed from the Egyptians.
Not precisely a golden young bull (what a CALF PRECISELY is)
Yes! See my blog, Judaism Is Egyptian Spirituality...
This kind of stuff never seems that convincing to me. The Egyptians didn't have a monopoly on cows and bull imagery was prevalent in all of the surrounding cultures.
@@TheEvolver311 Fair this one aspect is certainly not unique and all the Mediterranean cultures share similar themes. I suppose I was struck how NOT unique Judaism is and how in context for its time. It’s not a religion that is a stranger to its setting and so clearly different to the neighbouring religions as I was told.
In my opinion the Yehwaist monotheism was not influenced by atenism but by Mesopotamian’s Marduk taking the roles of other gods and Egyptian Amun/Ra/Ptah the same
I just compared Psalm 104 and Great Hymn to the Aten. I wanted to see if they are as similar to each to each other as Dr. Cooney claims. While both read like prayers to their respective god I don't see anything so similar that you have to conclude that the Great Hymn to the Aten inspired Psalms 104 but at same time it's certainly possible. It's an interesting comparison and thanks for bringing it to our attention Dr. Cooney.
Read again. The Israelites borrowed lots of ideas from other religions and cultures.
*The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.***
*Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.***
***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service.
Google *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"*
Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes.
From a Biblical scholar:
"Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."*
*"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"*
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In addition, look up the below articles.
*"Biblical Contradiction #2: Did God create the heavens and earth from the formless deep OR did Yahweh create them from the slaying of the primaeval sea monster Leviathan /Rahab?"* - Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"*
*"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"*
*"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"*
(Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief)
*"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"*
*"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From?
Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica
(Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years)
*"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"*
Watch *"How Aron Ra Debunks Noah's Flood"*
(8 part series debunking Noah's flood using multiple branches of science)
*"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"*
*"Are The Ten Commandments Based On The Forty-Two Principles Of Maat That Appeared 2,000 Years Earlier? - Ancient Pages"*
*"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"*
*"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"*
*"No, Humans Are Probably Not All Descended From A Single Couple Who Lived 200,000 Years Ago"*
*"Adam & Eve: Theologians Try to Reconcile Science and Fail - The New Republic"*
*"Adam and Eve: the ultimate standoff between science and faith (and a contest!) - Why Evolution Is True"*
*"Bogus accommodationism: The return of Adam and Eve as real people, as proposed by a wonky quasi-scientific theory - Why Evolution Is True"*
*"How many scientists question evolution? - **sciencemeetsreligion.org**"*
*"What is the evidence for evolution? - Common-questions - BioLogos"*
(A Christian organisation)
*"Why scientists dismiss 'intelligent design' - Science"*
*"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"*
*"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"*
*"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei
(This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies)
*"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei
*"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei
More than likely the common devotional literature of the whole Middle East was somewhat similar. Akhenaten was raised when Egypt had connections to everyone. It was a golden age. Some shared influence could had happened but what actually probably happened was both cultures were inspired by older caananite hymns which the Bible literally just lifted hymn to Baal and called it their own
I would love a video about child deities in Ancient Egypt, there is a paper on the subject: “Patterns of Ancient Egyptian Child Deities” by Dr. Sung Hwan Yoo.
You should have her more often. Loved this.
I have a couple of comments, both long and so in two posts.
The first comment is on the structure of Yahweh and its evolution. When we look and early levant the writing is developed through the lens of mesopotamian civilization. This is Anu and Anunnuki encountering the protocanaanite gods, like Yam, Mot, Hadad, etc. Within that initial construct we have very quickly the semeticization of mesopotamia and then a blending of akkadian theology and canaanite mythology that eventually becomes the El Elyon and the Elohim. Both of these are described in the bible but assume different meanings through the lens of a later Yahwism. We should note right off the bat that Jahwist sensu lato are anti shamash and anti Suen (or Jerickt) and they go out of their way to avoid mentioning directly the sun and the moon in the text of the bible. But in the book of Judges we can see the vestiges of polytheism in the literature that indicate that the religion of Elohim was strong. Its not really until the end of Samuel that one sees an increase of theophorics to Yah and decrease in theophorics to El and other deities. The critical issue in judges is what changed and why. There is a thread of belief that Yah is a transformation of Ea originally a god of desert sages in western Arabia during the Akkadian and early babylonia period, a syncretic god might be what the greeks describe as Ionnous (jonah). But this description of Yahweh, even from the beginning is inadequate. In the song of deborah the words Yah and Yahweh are used interchangebly, but was this always the case might one of these names have been another god.
But there is another problem, the arabian problem. Yahweh's foundational myth is that of a volcano god, there are no active volcanos in western arabia, the closest one is in Erithrea on the shores of the red sea. We might elect to ignore the African Yahweh origin theory except for the fact a major Jewish Y chromosomal lineage is essentially an transcontinental haplogroup that apparent crossed the red sea at Africas horn several times since the DE lineage left Africa. But this discussion has to be weighed by the fact that the little evidence we have from the Jordan river valley and Egypt is that Yahw[eh] was a midianite/kennite/edomite god that appeared in canaan late, after the Israelite tribes stabilized following the late bronze age collapse. Multiple societies saw Yahweh as a chief god, some saw Yahweh as the equivilent of El Elyon, some saw Yahweh as the cheif god in a small pantheon, but none saw Yahweh at that time as the only god or the omnipotent god.
Again we can only rationalize Yahweh's structure to a certain extent before we are lead to a conclusion that Yahweh is a composite god with threads from many places, and most importantly, that the construction process is largely ahistorical, possibly prehistoric depending on where that deities proto-midiantie identity evolved. But there are some speculations that we can make. The confederation(s) of Israel sits, depending on the period, trade routes between Africa, Mesopotamia and Anatolia. The midianites were shepherds who grazed flocks over large regions, ranging from S. Arabia to the dead sea. They came to Egypt (as Shasu) and they probably sold sheep and purchased grain. There was trade in olive oil, in months were trade across the mediterranean was risky, with Israel and Phonecia, there was trade with mesopotamia, across Israel. During the LBAC the remaining Egyptian kingdom could only trade via the levant for precious goods. And then there is the structure of deity worship under Egypt and its garrison leaders (the levites?) that remained during the early part of the LBAC and may have diffused into the Israelite population.
There are signs in the Judges and Samuel that there are lingering devotional beliefs to egyptian gods such as anubis, earlier signs of worship to Hathor. So that while most of the theology of Jahwism appears to have cultural links to mesopotamia, it is not exclusive. But the final idea here is of all the beliefs we associate with 2nd Temple Judaism how many were polished because of the exilic period in the neobabylonian empire and a search for a salvational god identity afterward. And if we could remove that polish might some of the other threads (Enki/Ea, El Elyon, Anat, Asherah, Hadat, Maloch, Yam, Mot, Anubis, Ra, Aten) become apparent?
@Jeremiah The father of the earliest Judge has the name that means dog-faced idol (anubis). The name of a pair of "causeway" cities is Beth Horor, House of the god Horor, which was also a god in Egypt (Not Horus) that the two cultures shares. The placement of the towns east-west instead of north south is also interesting, because the trade routes between Israel ans its benefactors is SW-NE. Another pair of towns whose story (and the towns) that appear in the Amarna period is Shalim (Salem, Dusk) and Shahah (Dawn) appear to connect Jerusalem with Jordan. So what we know about Egypt is that they like to travel along the coast roads and then travel inland. The places assigned to the levites appear to be garrison towns in the Amarna period. As mentioned above there is an early inscription to hathor in the desert of Sin.
Thank u for interview and info. ❤❤
6:37 I used to be a very conservative, even fundamentalist, type of Catholic back in college (the type that goes to the Mass in Latin like the old days and sometimes complains about the current pope) and had I heard that back then I would’ve called you a heretic but now that I’m an atheist I can’t help but agree with your comment, growing up in a Mexican Catholic we had Our Lady of Guadalupe and she may have been based on an Aztec goddess so that’s how I treat her now.
It is NOT illogical to do what you love. It's exactly what everyone should TRY to do.
Dr. Cooney is a bad ass! Love this woman! Yes!😍🤩😘 haven't heard the podcast yet, but i'm very very excited about the info to come!!
The story of the rise and fall of the Hyksos and whether their expulsion was recast as the Exodus?
The Hyksos were expelled from Egypt around 500 years before the Exodus is depicted as taking place, according to the biblical chronology, which is why most scholars reject that theory. There’s also some evidence that the Hyksos weren’t related to the Israelites ethnically or culturally.
@@annascott3542 more like 100 years.
Hyksos expelled by Ahmose I around 1550 BC, Exodus around 1446 BC
Could the three gods in one have influenced the much later development of the trinity?
The trinity is pagan
No. Trinitarianism was about YHWH being made of of 3 persons sharing the SAME DIVINE NAME. Three gods with three names are not of the same essence. Trinitarianism was based on a Jewish tendency to see YHWH's essence as present in other entities like the Shekinah, Lady Wisdom, Torah (literally thought to be an incarnation of God), Spirit etc. The only uniqueness was making Jesus an incarnation of the Name YHWH (which is what "name of Jesus" really means)
@@tsemayekekema2918 Only a handful of Jews throughout history have agreed that Yahweh is a Trinity. So the overwhelming majority of Jews throughout history have rejected that Yahweh is a Trinity; in fact, they see the idea as idolatry...So you don’t know what you are talking about.
L❤️ve Kara, excellent conversation, thanks so much!
I could listen to you two discuss these things for hours. Marvelous conversation, so much knowledge.
(26 September 2023, 08:45 a.m. EST)
My research suggests, based on earlier studies made by scholars, over a hundred years ago, that Israel's God's origins are mostly Mesopotamian, and ultimately Sumerian, in many respects, not so much Egyptian.
The motifs about man's origins in Genesis appear to draw from Mesopotamian myths as noted by numerous scholars, and are basically a refutation of those myths via a series of clever inversions.
As regards the "monotheistic nature" of God, again, I see this drawing on concepts found in Mesopotamian prayers of adulation addressed to a given god.
I note that some Mesopotamian prayers address a given god as combining the feats and powers of several earlier gods.
The Assyrian god, Asshur is claimed to be an embodiment of all earlier gods (Babylonian).
Several Babylonian gods' feats are transferred to the god Asshur.
It thus makes sense to me, that, aping the Assyrians' god Asshur as embodying earlier Babylonian gods, so, too, the Israelites had their God embody and assume the feats and powers of Assyrian, and earlier Babylonian gods.
I see nothing Egyptian being borrowed regarding monotheism with one exception:
The Exodus being a recasting of the Hyksos Expulsion of 1530 BC, reveals the Hyksos worshipped Baal-zephon of Syria, as the Egyptian god Seth.
The Mercy Seat atop the Ark of the Covenant appears to be an Egyptian borrowing by way of Phoenician winged Sphinx Cherubim thrones found in Tyre (Human-headed, winged, lion-bodied, as throne side arms)).
The Sphinx-like Cherubbim in the Jerusalem Temple Holy of Holies also appear to be borrowings from Egypt via the Phoenicians, who are credited in helping with building the Temple under Solomon (providing Cedar wood for the Temple's interior).
The Hezikiah Seal, with its winged Sun Disk, looks Egyptian in its iconography.
So I would not deny "any" Egyptian borrowing in Israel's iconograhical art. Its a mix: Egyptian, Phoenician, Syrian, and Mesopotamian.
What I find as most remarkable is the Israelite notion that the Creation is not to be worshipped as being divine (Sacred Rocks, Trees, Moon, Sun, Stars, Rivers, etc.).
A 6th century BC (ca. 587 BC?) Jeremiah condemns Israelite women in an Egyptian exile for worshipping the Queen of Heaven, and that God, in anger, has allowed Israel's enemy, Babylon, to send them into that exile.
Thanks to you both. I found this a very interesting and thought provoking discussion.
What I got is that Power and Organized Politics really is a powerful motivator to mold religion to fit the benefits of whoever wrote it. Have a bunch of people/elements who don't agree with you, declare them as demons.
A wonderful interview. I hope you can get her back again to talk more.
Very interesting to see the parallels to Josiah's reforms (2 Kings 22-23, and 2 Chronicles 34-35) and to Muhammad's relations with Meccan polytheism.
Absolutely incredible interview. This channel has single handedly revived my hope in the internet.
thoughtful and very interesting convo.
On the point about the ancient conception of the Sun being a disc - I don't think it's condescending to think that ancient Egyptians didn't have a modern understanding of the Sun as a 'ball' - I think we take for granted that all these celestial objects are three dimensional, but that's only because we've grown up having been told that. It's impossible to know what shape the sun is in reality just by simple observation of the sort available back then, and we shouldn't patronise the ancient peoples by pretending they knew more than it's reasonable to assume they did. I suppose what I'm saying is that it's not a sign of intellectual failure of ancient people, that they were flat earthers. Modern people, on the other hand....
Monotheism was taught to me and then spread back and forth from me to others but also both backward, and it would appear, forward in time. It's origins are in the heart, which is eternal. Seek it within yourself, not under some dust from old rocks. Those will ultimately distract you from the meaningful truth you earnestly pursue.
So informative and interesting, thank~you!
Now I know why my ears were burning 🔥 🤭
Sorry I missed it, I was out shopping with my carer 🙃
44:37 *How true!*
Set is a storm god of the deserts who goes to war. In early layers of the texts Yahweh presents with many aspects of a storm god of the desert who goes to war. Later the Yahweh cult fights the Baal cult, Baal being a storm god of the coasts who goes to war. The Hyskos had at Avaris a huge temple to Set. Monotheism was not a part of Israelite culture until the return from the exile, and the credit for this can probably be the influence of Zoroastrianism of the Medes and Persians.
On MythVision channel she said the Egyptians saw the moon as masculine but in this video when she said they saw the sun as masculine she said the moon is feminine as if the Egyptians saw it that way. So which is it? Either way very good info.
Funny thing about the Sun and Moon, seemingly interpreted as opposing genders, it was orginally the same female gender for both in the Early Indo European faith
Great talk
Very interesting conversation, but I do find Dr. Cooney's need to slot everything into modern Western leftist paradigms of power overdone. I especially thought so when it came to her interpreting her conversations with modern Sri Lankans. Not every religious belief or institution is an elite power-grab.
Great conversation! However, it's interesting how your guest revealed her own ideological prejudices at the end, whilst under the delusion that she is so enlightened and cannot possibly be acting from ideaology, or that her ideology is good, while simultaneously lambasting other people for being under the grip of opposing ideologies to her.
Wish I would have caught this live. Very interesting show. Thank you. It sounds like Akhnaten (sp?) was power hungry like many kings, not wanting to share power with lords and priests etc. Religion has been a reliable way of controlling people, so it sounds like that is what he was trying to do. Maybe I'm all wrong here, but that's how it sounds to my ears.
Did Akhnaten (literally no idea how ot spell this, sorry) ever claim to have any dreams or visionary experiences?
Interesting question. I guess it would be surprising if he didn't
Ptolomys ordered a decree to round up all of the ancient scrolls from all religions around the world yet he also wanted the Hebrew scrolls given to him separately. He had all of the powerful rituals and beliefs taken out and re wrote the septugient making the Jewish religion a monotheistic in the process.
This is a similar line of thought to Freud's speculative theory in Moses and Monotheism, right?
47:44 Really? People with their politics. 👎
Oh noooooo people have thoughts and opinions!!! *gasp*
The use of the "mono" in monotheism for empire, power and political supremacy is undeniable and important. But to say that is ALL that is going on when, say, a Hindu asserts a Divine One "behind," as it were, the different divinities worshipped, that is a very different assertion.
If you are going to have a discussion about monotheism, you need to have a good specific philosophical grasp of a scholarly definition of what monotheism actually is. She expressed some confusion about the basic concepts of monotheism and it seems she is confused about the distinctions between monotheism, henotheism and monolatry. She seems to slur these together without specific distinctions.
I agree that Akhenaten's position on the plurality of deities evolved in the direction towards monotheism, but personally I would question the idea that Akhenaten's position ever really became or evolved into a authentic position of actual monotheism, as specifically defined by a strong, scholarly, philosophical definition of the concept. DZ
Love it!
Why would we not like the word monotheism? Is there actually push out there to deny that to any religion other than the Abrahamic derivatives?
Oh, the other one was the temple structure with the outer court, inner court and holy of Holies where the gods reside
Ooh love the hair, Megan!
Yes! Amen-Ra 🌞
I might be able to put it back together, but years ago I remember going through something demonstrated the YHWH originated in Yemen.
Love Kara cooney and how she anatomize history
Can we have Karran Armstrong on the show?
Thank you.
To me as a rank amateur it seems that Christianity is greatly influenced in late antiquity by the Greco-egyptian religion that was on its way out. Is there much study in this area that's accessible?
Yes. Based on hercules and its 12 labours and a syncretised astronomical allegory. A version of orion as spring constellation, son of central skygod (jaweh/zeus) and the 12 constellations.
Absolutely, Dennis McDonald, Richard Carrier, Richard Miller would give you a good start. Plenty of Interviews on RUclips as well. Good stuff
The ending 🤦🏼♀️ for people who are so against what you’re spoon fed, you’re sure accepting of media spoonfeeding you.
Thanks
The "Aten" wasn't supposed to be the sun, but the "source."
Brilliant ❤❤❤
We know my take on Akhenaten 😂. I think we shouldn’t define it with modern terms, and I’ve got some articles coming about Atenism. I have to point out, though, as a Catholic also, we only worship God. We don’t pray to anyone but God. Mary and Saints are not worshiped, but asked to intercede with prayers to God, kind of like HR helping you out with the boss 😊
hello dr, do you think you can illustrate the distinction between worship and veneration. i see the two to practically seem the same way, but are semantically separated.
That’s what I thought Catholicism was but I wasn’t sure so I didn’t comment
@@sirmaALifriqi I'll try my best lol. Apologies for a long post! I should say I am just a believer and not a theologian with a degree in Catholic studies (I wish I had the time to have done that tho!). I think the terms worship vs. venerate is really not good because they are or can be interchangeable, which is problematic. The concepts are quite complex, and unfortunately people want to shorthand them (like Akhenaten being a "monotheist") and this sadly reduces the concept to something that is easily misunderstood and thereby open to quick dismissal. In Catholicism (and I think East Orthodox and Coptic Christianities are along the same vein with this), God exists in three parts (trinity): God/Spirit/Jesus. All are the same guy in different manifestations. Mary is a follower of God. She herself prays to God. To my knowledge there is no religion where deities pray to each other. Mary, her cousin Elizabeth, and Elizabeth's son, John the Baptist, all have prominent roles in the effecting of God's plan, and all three are Saints. Joseph, Jesus's other dad, is also a Saint. They are held in high esteem by Catholics as the people who helped God's plan come to pass. You might say they didn't have a choice, but they did willingly accept the roles bestowed upon them, which exemplifies their faith and service to God, which is something highly respected in Catholicism. They all worshiped God. Mary gets the most respect because she is a mother and her faith and sacrifice were the greatest among everyone else's.
One of the three primary prayers in Catholicism (those of the rosary) is the so-called "Hail Mary", which goes like "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Hail Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." This prayer on its own reveals her entire role in Catholicism. We ask her to pray for us. So not only do we individually pray to God, but we can ask Saints to also pray to God on our behalf to give prayers a boost. Like bonus XP in a video game. But we never pray to Saints in the capacity of being deities on their own, and anyone who does this has been poorly taught or has misinterpreted the faith.
Chapters 148 and 149 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church shed some light on this also. This text was composed to make the tenets of Christianity more transparent to worshippers. I will reproduce them here for you:
Ch. 148: The Virgin Mary most perfectly embodies the obedience of faith. By faith Mary welcomes the tidings and promise brought by the angel Gabriel, believing that "with God nothing will be impossible" and so giving her assent: "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word." Elizabeth greeted her: "Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord." It is for this faith that all generations have called Mary blessed.
Ch. 149: Throughout her life and until her last ordeal when Jesus her son died on the cross, Mary's faith never wavered. She never ceased to believe in the fulfillment of God's word. And so the Church venerates in Mary the purest realization of faith.
So essentially she is acknowledged and respected for her faith and sacrifice, but not ever worshipped as a goddess. I hope that helps. A lot of the religion is challenging to understand, but I hope I managed to clarify a bit better.
We know that's the intent, but in practice people DO pray to Mary, and saints, and devote themselves to these alternate figures in a way that is indistinguishable from worship- as I am sure you are aware even if you don't do such yourself.
@@DrBrianaJackson you’ve stated that “God/Spirit/Jesus are all the same guy…” and “Joseph, Jesus’ (God/Spirit) other dad..”
How can God be his own dad and son as Jesus and have another dad through a mortal man? So did Joseph raise, teach, feed, chastise, and worship his God?
It may be that the development of the Israelite monotheism development parallels the development of Egyptian monotheism. Both spurned by a authoritarian mindset.
All the Copts in the mud brick shops say
(Whey oh whey oh, ay oh whey oh)
Is God an Egyptian
Is God an Egyptian?
🎶 🎵 🎼
Bangles
Ha Ha! I don't know what song that is parodying but it tickled my funny bone!
@@kayb9979 “walk like an Egyptian” by the Bangles
@@scienceexplains302 Oh, thanks. I haven't heard that for donkey's years!
Thanks 👍
YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah or the Abrahamic god started out as one of *many* patron deities before becoming "God of the universe" as monotheism started taking shape and was conflated with the fictional Canaanite gods El and Baal.
According to critical scholarship YHWH *was* a son of El before inheriting the top spot in the pantheon and El's wife Athirat (Asherah).
The original god of the Israelite patriarchs was the Canaanite god El who the war/storm god YHWH from the southern Levant was later conflated with.
Basically, YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah is fictional just like the other *hundreds* of fictional gods from ancient Canaan that he shared the region with.
*Ugarit and the Bible*
Many people are familiar with the texts found at Qumran, commonly known as the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the 1940s. But fewer people have heard of the Ugarit findings, which began to be unearthed in the late 1920s. Both discoveries greatly increased our knowledge and understanding of Biblical texts and also of the history surrounding the evolution of Judaism and Christianity.
The Dead Sea Scrolls impacted both the Old and New Testament interpretations, while the findings at Ugarit impacted only the Old Testament. *These texts and architectural inscriptions predate the Hebrew settlement at Canaan, but interestingly, they mention some of the same gods that appear in the Hebrew religious writings, produced after the Hebrew contact with the Ugarit region. The most significant god mentioned is El.* In one temple inscription he is said to be the father of Ba’al. In other mentions, he is even the father of Yahweh.
In the Old Testament, Ba’al is associated with the Canaanites. And he is described as the focus of their religious worship in those stories-while El is described as being another name for Yahweh, the Hebrew patron god. *In reality, however, based on the discoveries at Ugarit (the land called Canaan in the Bible), El is clearly the father of the gods in much the same way that Zeus is the head of the gods on Olympus in Greek mythology. And Yahweh is not another name for El, but a separate deity.* Like Zeus, El headed a pantheon. He was not only the father of mankind, but the leader of the Ugarit gods. *His pantheon, in Ugarit, is called the* ***Elohim*** *(literally, the plural of El).*
Using the book of Genesis as an example, the best scholarly estimates date it back to somewhere between 950 and 500 BC. *It appears that the writings were composed in two styles, one style preferring to refer to god as El and the other using YHWH (or Yahweh).* Eventually these texts came together into the form we have today, sometime around 450 BC. *Just to give some perspective, the best documented time in the Ugarit history was between 1450 and 1200 BC.*
According to many modern apologists, El is simply another name for god, or even a generic word for “god” used by the Hebrews; and Elohim is simply another form of El. However, Bible translators do translate Elohim as plural in some instances and do translate El to be a proper noun in some instances. Some apologists defend a wholly singular usage of Elohim by pointing to the inconsistency with which Elohim is used with singular verb forms; however, this does not rule out the very real (and likely) potential that as monotheism evolved out of polytheism, the Hebrew texts were adjusted to correct for this problem (as we discussed the evolution of the book of Genesis in the above paragraph). ***However, it does seem oddly coincidental-and difficult to overlook-that the Hebrews had significant contact with Canaan and then, some years afterward, wrote out a Hebrew religious mythology using a name for god that parallels the Ugarit mythology’s chief deity.*** *It is also odd that Elohim appears in Ugarit texts as a clearly plural form of El, and then later in a sometimes confused singular/plural fashion in the Hebrew texts.*
*The important question becomes, then: Is there any reason beyond the contact with Canaan to view the Hebrew deity as being synonymous with the Canaanite god El? The answer is “yes.”* There are parallels between the two gods. For example, if we look at more of the attributes of El in the Ugarit texts, we find that El had a consort, Asherah *(who was also, occasionally, recorded as the consort to Yahweh).* This would appear to distance the Hebrew El from the Ugarit El then, if there is no mention of the Hebrews combining El with Asherah. *However, there is mention in the Hebrew texts that illustrates that Asherah was connected with El in the minds of the Hebrews as well as in their worship. Twice in Jeremiah (chapter 7 and chapter 44), she is referred to as the Queen of Heaven, and it is clearly indicated that the Hebrews were worshipping her in those instances.* Also, in 2 Kings 18, it is noted that her objects of worship (the Asherah poles) were removed from the “high places” of worship to El/Yahweh.
*There is no doubt that as the Hebrews moved from polytheism, into henotheism, and ultimately into monotheism, that they adjusted their religious practices accordingly.* It is not surprising that the worship of Asherah was ultimately condemned, discouraged, and forbidden. *But what can’t be ignored is the fact that the Hebrews did acknowledge Asherah. They did worship her.* And they did associate her with El by placing her symbols in the same temples of worship. ***If Hebrews did not adopt the older Ugarit El, with which they were surely familiar, then it is very odd that Asherah also appears in their religious texts and worship.***
I would never underestimate the apologist’s ability to find a perspective that can reinterpret this data to make it less problematic. ***However, the clear and simple explanation is this: The Hebrews interacted with Ugarit, adopted their pantheon, and their religion evolved, as all religions do through time, to become a uniquely Hebrew monotheism.***
Google *"The Atheist Experience™: Ugarit and the Bible"*
Watch Professor Christine Hayes who lectures on the Hebrew Bible at Yale University. Watch lecture 2 from 40:40 to 41:50 minutes, lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards, lecture 8 from 12:00 to 17:30 minutes and lecture 12 from 27:40 minutes onwards.
Watch *"Pagan Origins of Judaism"* by Sigalius Myricantur and read the description in the video to see the scholarship the video is based on.
Watch *"How Monotheism Evolved"* by Sigalius Myricantur and watch up to at least 21:40.
Watch *"Atheism - A History of God (The Polytheistic Origins of Christianity and Judaism)"*
(By a former theist)
Watch *"The Origins of Yahweh"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica.
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In addition, look up the below articles.
*"Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites - Biblical Archaeology Society."*
("The study in Cell not only establishes that the ancient Israelites were ***descended from the Canaanites,*** but also establishes that the Canaanite people across the separate city-states of the southern Levant, and over a period of 1,500 years, were a genetically cohesive people.")
*"The Canaanites weren't annihilated, they just 'moved' to Lebanon - The Times of Israel."*
*"Ancient Canaanite religion explained - **everything.explained.today**"*
*"Archeology of the Hebrew Bible - NOVA - PBS"*
("Many scholars now think that *most of the early Israelites were originally Canaanites, displaced Canaanites,* displaced from the lowlands, from the river valleys, displaced geographically and then displaced ideologically.")
*"Origins of Judaism explained - **everything.explained.today**"*
("According to the current academic historical view, the origins of Judaism lie in the Bronze Age amidst polytheistic ancient Semitic religions, ***specifically evolving out of Ancient Canaanite polytheism,*** then co-existing with Babylonian religion, and syncretizing elements of Babylonian belief into the worship of Yahweh as reflected in the early prophetic books of the Hebrew Bible. (The Torah)".
*Refer to the bibliography at the bottom of the page)*
*"Canaanite languages - Britannica"*
("Group of Northern Central or Northwestern Semitic languages including ***Hebrew,*** Moabite, Phoenician, and Punic.")
*"The Gods and Goddesses of Canaan | Essay | The Metropolitan Museum of Art | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History"*
*"El - New World Encyclopedia"*
(Refer to the section "El Outside the Bible" and the fact that *most of the early Israelites were originally indigenous or displaced Canaanites)*
*"El (deity) explained - **everything.explained.today**"*
(Refer to section "Ugarit and the Levant" and the fact that *most of the ancient Israelites were originally indigenous or displaced Canaanites* and see how YHWH later conflated with El (Yahweh-El(ohim)) is fictional)
*"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."*
(Pay attention to whose wife Asherah (Athirat) is in the Ugaritic/Canaanite texts and how she became the wife of YHWH/Yahweh)
*"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."*
*"Married Deities: Asherah and Yahweh in Early Israelite Religion - Yahweh Elohim."*
*"Asherah, God's Wife in Ancient Israel. Part IV - theyellowdart"*
*"The Gates of Ishtar - Anath in the Elephantine Papyri"*
(It appears in addition to Asherah (Athirat) being the consort of Yahweh it also appears some Israelites also viewed the Canaanite goddess Anat(h) as Yahweh's consort)
*"Excerpt from “Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan” by John Day - Lehi's Library."*
*"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.*
(Written by Thom Stark who is a Christian)
*"Michael Heiser: A Unique Species? - Religion at the Margins"*
(A second response to Michael Heiser)
*"The Syncretization of Yahweh and El : reddit/AcademicBiblical"*
(For a good summary of all of the above articles)
Nevertheless, the historical reconstruction that El was the chief god of the Israelites is not indebted only to the testimony of the (rather late) biblical witness of P. *Numerous biblical texts attest to the fact that the titles, functions, and the imagery associated with the Canaanite god El, as revealed by the Ugaritic texts and the Canaanite myth of Elkunirša, were assimilated into the profile of the deity YHWH.* According to the Ugaritic texts, El was known for his *wisdom* (e.g., KTU2 1.4.V.65[6]) and *great age* (’ab šnm, *“Father of Years,”* and drd, *“Ageless One,”* in KTU2 1.4.IV.24 and 1.10.III.6, respectively),[7] his *compassionate nature* (lţpn il dp’id, *“Kind El, the Compassionate One,”* e.g., KTU2 1.16.IV.9), his role as *father of the gods and humanity* (’ab ’adm, *“father of humanity,”* KTU2 1.14..III.47, and bny bnwt, *“creator of creatures,”* KTU2 1.17.I.24) and *creator of the cosmos.* [8] El was the *divine King* (e.g., KTU2 1.2.III.5-6) and the *head of the pantheon or divine council* (referred to variously as the dr ’il, *“circle of El/Family of El,”* KTU2 1.15.III.19; mpħrt bn ’il, *“the assembly of the sons of El,”* KTU2 1.65.3; bn ’il, *“the sons of El,”* KTU2 1.40.33, 41; pħr kbbm, *“assembly of the stars,”* KTU2 1.10.I.3-4; ‘dt ’ilm, *“assembly of the gods,”* KTU2 1.15.II.7; cf. KTU2 1.2.I; 1.3V; 1.4 IV-V) which met at the sacred mountain. *His consort was the goddess Athirat who bore him seventy sons* (šb‘m bn ’atrt, *“the seventy sons of Athirat,”* KTU2 1.4.VI.46). El was also known for his *divine patronage and blessing of progeny to humans* (as in the Epic of Kirta; see, for example, KTU2 1.14.III.46-51), for his *appearances to humans in dreams* (e.g., KTU2 1.14.I.35-37), as *being a healer* (KTU2 1.16.V-VI), and for his *dwelling at the sacred mountain* (e.g., KTU2 1.2.III.5-6) at the *sources of the mythical rivers* (KTU2 1.2.III.4; 1.3.V.6; 1.4.IV.20-22; 1.17.V.47-48) in a *tent* (KTU2 1.2.III.5; 1.3.V.8; 1.4.IV.24; 1.17.V.49; c.f. the Canaanite myth Elkunirša which *describes El’s abode as a tent[9]).[10]*
*To underscore the fact that terminology and imagery originally used for the god El was adopted by the Israelites in their descriptions of YHWH,* the following brief summary might be placed in comparison to the discussion of El above: YHWH is an *aged, patriarchal deity* (Ps. 102:28; Job 36:26; Is. 40:28; Dan. 7.9-14, 22), *a father* (Deut. 32:6; Is. 63:16; 64:7; Jer. 3:4, 19; 31:9, etc.), *merciful and gracious* (Ex. 34:6; Jon. 4:2; Joel 2:13; Ps. 8615; 103:8; 145:8, etc.), *a divine patron who bestows the blessing of progeny upon Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,* often manifesting himself in *dreams or visions, a healer* (Gen. 20:17; Num. 12:13; 2 Kgs. 20:5, 8; Ps. 107:20, etc.), who *dwells in a tent* (Ps. 15:1; 27:6; 91:10; 132:3) *amidst the heavenly waters* (Ps. 47:5; 87; Is. 33: 20-22; Ez. 47:1-12, etc.), the *creator of the cosmos,* who is enthroned as *heavenly King* in the *divine council* (1 Kgs. 22:19; Is. 6:1-8; cf. Ps. 29:1-2; 82; 89: 5-8, etc.) on the *sacred mount of assembly* (e.g., Is. 14:13). Additionally, in much Israelite religious practice throughout the monarchic period, *YHWH had a divine consort, the goddess Asherah, the Hebrew equivalent of Ugaritic Athirat.[11]* (Originally the wife of El)
Google *"When Jehovah Was Not the God of the Old Testament. Part II - theyellowdart"*
------------------------------------------------------------------
In addition, look up the below articles.
*"Yahweh - Wikipedia"*
(Yes, I know it's a Wikipedia article, but it's well sourced. Check out the references section)
*"Canaanite Phoenician Origin of the God of the Israelites."*
*"The Phoenician (Canaanite) God Resheph in the Bible - Is That in the Bible?"*
*"When the Jews believed in other gods - Archaeology - Haaretz"*
*"The Invention of God - Maclean's"*
*"The Boundaries of the Nations - Yahweh Elohim."*
*"How Did the Bible’s Editors Conceal Evidence of Israelite Polytheism - Evolution of God by Robert Wright."*
*"A Theologically Revised Text: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 - Ancient Hebrew Poetry."*
*"Biblical Contradiction #11. When was the name Yahweh first invoked?"*
*"Biblical Contradiction #3: Which God is the Creator of the Heavens and Earth: Yahweh or El?"*
*"Biblical Contradiction #27. Are Yahweh and El the Same God or Not?"*
*"Biblical Contradiction **#294**, **#295**, **#296**. Which god liberated Israel from Egypt: Yahweh or El?"*
*"Mark Smith: "Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh's Ascendancy - Lehi's Library."*
*"The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts (Oxford/New York: Oxford University Press, 2001) | Bible Interp"*
*"Quartz Hill School of Theology - B425 Ugarit and the Bible."*
*"The Origins of Yahweh and the Revived Kenite Hypothesis - Is That in the Bible?"*
*"Yahweh, god of metallurgy - Fewer Lacunae."*
*"Polytheistic Roots of Israelite Religion - Fewer Lacunae."*
*"Yahweh was just an ancient Canaanite god. We have been deceived! - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
*"Religious Studies: El, Yahweh and the Development of Monotheism in Ancient Israel."*
*"Decoupling YHWH and El - Daniel O. McClellan."*
*"Yhwh, God of Edom - Daniel O. McClellan."*
*"God, Gods, and Sons (and Daughters) of God in the Hebrew Bible. Part III - theyellowdart"*
*"God and the "Sons of God" - Yahweh Elohim"*
24:06 Not for all Egyptians and not in all periods. Hathor is solar. Khonsu and Iah were Moon deities.
I'm new to this channel. I found my way here from the Atheist Experience. Thank you so much for making this channel...I love it❤
With regard to monotheism in Christian religions and how we identify them as monotheism and polytheism, Im am going to take a different approach. I want everyone to look in the dictionary at the definition of god, it really depends what religion you are in what your definition is, whether its a God with a upper or lower case. I was in one of the peculiar definition associated with the Christian Science Church some 50 years ago. These ethnocentric definitions of god are not opaque.
For those here that make a distinction between God, gods, angles, demons, devils and animistic sprites I want you to take a journey and explore christianity from 37AD to 350AD. David Litwa has a new RUclips channel and is offering a 35$ course through Mythvision Podcast for an online course in early first millenium mystery religions including these early christianities. Why do I bring these up. When I look at religious belief I tend to look through it from a mystical lens, if you can imagine all the mystery beliefs swirling around the early Roman empire imagine yourself being a mystic but agnostic with regard to which deity is real.
So the key issue is what are mages, sages, magic, magick, occult, esotericism, etc. The problem is the words we use to describe others beliefs pejoratively have homologues in whatever our beliefs are. If you are this mystic examining christianity you can see an evolution from forms of desert mysticism, occasionally magic. You would see also the encorperation of ideas (almost the exact wording) developed in myths supporting non-abrahamic mystery religions.
The connection between mysticism and doctrinal beliefs cannot be swept easily under the rug, in Judeo-christian religion mysticism is either sanctioned (Holy) or satanic/demonic. For example mystery ideas associated with lucifer were cherished early in christianity, but later declared heretical. The Ebyon, the group most scholars to be Paul's pillars, the disciples who remained in Jerusalem, were a few hundred years later declared neither Christian or Jewish. Whereas Pauls mystical Jesus Christ (a visionary experience) became a centerpiece for later christian evolution.
The epistimological evolution of christianity was a process of cherry picking what some leaders thought was socially acceptable (roman conformalism) versus what they believed was heretical. Of the dozen or so early second century Jesus-centric mystery cults we are left at the end of the 8th century only one surviving.
The type of revolutionary mysticism that Jesus and his trainees practiced is not the same type of mystery practices that the Roman Catholic or the Orthodox Church wants it lay to practice. But there is a deeper question, according to what practicers of esotericism today call magick, we can see within the New Testament that Jesus, Paul and Peter appear to be using some type of magic in their practices. But this type of 'Heaven seeking' mysticism is not what the church wishes people to practice. The orthodox make it clear in their doctine that this leads to delusion (even do so far as to say it causes suicide).
When someone talks about iconography in the context of the church and distinguish these icons from idols, or putting prayers into the wailing wall, what they are essentually talking about is magick practice with some sort of special pleading why their form of magic is not the same kind of magic of some other pejorative type . In the occult people make fetishish, amulets, devices, chants or repeated evocations that they believe through some sanctification process gives them power and those devices function for the individual to enhance their mystic experience. But when you go to church and pray and sing, sometimes the same verse repeated dozens of times, with icons and decorated crosses. These devices are designed to give the practicer a mystical experience which hopefully conforms with the religions idea of acceptable practice.
From a mystic's perspective, it might be true that a devotee can create an apologetic as to explain why the various saints are not angels (essentially a jewish apologetic for lessor gods that the denigrated in the canaanite pantheon) and why Jesus and God are not separate. But if you study mystical beliefs prior to the council of Nicea, you can see how these ideas evolved and why the trinity was more a late political solution than as something handed from any follower of Jesus. The fact that the icons are placed in places of prayer and devotion indicates that the icons either collectively or individually can be focal points for mystical experiences as when people pray. In other words, just like the idols that 'primitive' civilians used to show their devotions and 'experience' their god, these icons are present to increase the experience of people praying to the christian notion of god. And we find this blurriness present in Deuteronomy, recognizing that there are gods a 7th BCE high priest of Judea did not want Judeans praying to other gods, probably out of fear that might waver in supporting the city state god of Jerusalem, Yahweh. With the fall of Israel (The northern kingdom), Judea had become a solitary city state which only needed one god, and so everyone should remain loyal to that god. That is the context for Jahwist Monaltism.
When scholars find devotional items in mesopotamia to Anu, Enki, Inanna it conjures up images of primitive peoples demonstrating pious behaviors to their gods, foolishly following them. But they created writing for their temples, poetry, they improved the brewing of beer, they demonstrated accounting and advanced political systems, and yes they prayed to their gods and had mystical experiences. The notion of Holy Spirit, people believed that Mary, mother of Jesus was the Holy Spirit, and the she took to Mt. Hebron by a single strand of his hair. Yes, they believed she had the power of a goddess before the Saint of Mary and the Holy Spirit were separate identities.
The notion of practice to a skeptical mystic is that one should not point out magic, idols or fetishes of others without first examining yours. How do you know its magic, if it enriches the feeling of euphoria, ecstasy, or epipheny one has when one meditates or prays. Why we have idols is that they give us value in whatever form of spirituality we practice. If you find you dont like the effect that 'they' have during 'their' practice try eliminating all facsimiles in your own, first. You might actually find that which Yeshua of Nazara was telling his fellow Jews to search out, that divinity that is within, but instead of finding Yahweh, the bringer of the New Kingdom, you might find what is uniquely yours. (When you pray dont go in public and babble outloud, but go pray in private, an evocation of the esoteric) This gets to my final point about esoteric mysticism, its hard to find, and best kept hidden. Figures who go about proselytizing their visions are exoteric in their practices, as the orthodox has pointed out this is delusional behavior, the shame of its hypocrisy is that it does not see this behavior in John the Presbyter, Paul of Tarsus, Simeon Cephas, or dare we say, Jesus.
I’ve enjoyed talks by Dr. Cooney in the past and I really respect her scholarship, but this argument seems really flimsy. She doesn’t really even seem committed to it enough to offer any support for it. One psalm that is probably related to an Egyptian prayer does not a link make. Where did the monaltrous religion go after the death of its king? It didn’t have to go anywhere. It wasn’t popular, by her admission. It wasn’t widespread among the people, by her admission. And a lot of scholars don’t even believe that monotheism arose in judaism until much much later. Maybe five or six centuries later. Once you step back from akhenatenism (that is probably really bad, sorry) it begins to look like an aberrant power play by one king that died with him and not much more. Just because another king eventually tried a similar thing doesn’t go very far to suggesting a genetic relationship.
amenhotep according to Manetho is the pharoh of the exodus his eldest son died so his younger son upon becoming pharoh and having seen the power of the hebrew god as young protected child its not surprising he came to believe in one god Moses and the israelites had long gone so he had no one to tutor him. BNut with all respect to Kara Cooney and to many others I don't think his monotheism influenced the hebrews rather the Hebrews influence akhenaten
The idea of a disk carrying the ultimate power has been around in different ancient societies. In Mesopotamia it was a eight ray disk, in other societies it was represented as a wheel/wain, circle, ring, the halo…it is not the Sun (what we understand it now days), it is a particular cosmological image in the night sky. The change that Akhanatan brought about is to make this disk a central religious-political idea at the exclusion of it its emanating forms (the different entities and deities). Judaism and other so called monotheistic” religions simply took the various emanating forms and grouped these under a single emanating form (a male god) who controls the other emanated forms and thus terrestrial life. Judaism is not monotheistic it recognise Elohim (gods) of which YAHWEH is some ultimate god. Christianity is not monotheistic, it recognise a triple deity (Father, Son and Holy Sprit-actually the female part of god).
30:05 Hence Horus’ initiatory sexual act with Seth. Too strong of an idea for our contemporary masses, I agree, but at least some of the Egyptians in the Ramesside period must have known this, otherwise no king with a Seth name would have been accepted to rule in a culture shaped by the prevalent religion of the followers of Horus.
Perhaps the legend of the mixed multitude in Exodus are refugees from your dynastic civil war
I clicked this because I've long wondered if there was any connection between the religion of Akhenaten and the development of monotheism in Judiasm. Instead I got mostly a post-modern lecture on 21st century progressive political priorities. Shut up and dribble, as they say.
You’re adorable
Mhh interesting..The seal of biblical King Hezekiah is littered with Egyptians iconography, such as the Aten (sundisk) and an Ank on the right.
1:13
"It's the privilege of me being white . . ."
I can do this all day Megan.
You’re adorable, but I’m bored. Have fun playing by yourself!
@@DigitalHammurabi cute. Just like your haircut/color. Should I ask for your pronouns? I gave you a single quotation and you folded your San Francisco tent.
She's so woke!
wonder who they voted for...
I didn’t vote; I’m not a US citizen and so am ineligible.
@@DigitalHammurabi I know, I kinda meant the other woman. But in the USA blue hair is considered a badge of pride for the left. I am not political actually. to me they are the same. But I heard your guest talking about social issues that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic I just assumed she likes propaganda and fake virtue.
@@DigitalHammurabi Also, I apologize for the disrespect... I love the topics you cover... we have just been beaten over the head with this diversity thing in the USA. It is only white liberals that latch onto it. Minorities do not appreciate int at all. Diversity of thought not color.
Hola!, Saludos!
I have been waiting for somebody to say this. years. Of course the ancients knew that the sun was a globe. It was pushed by the scarab across the sands. You don’t need to be a scholar of ancient Hebrew. You just need to watch a couple of RUclips videos. I suggest: “The pagan origins of Judaism”. The Hebrew deity El Has something in common with Ptah.
Thought Kara was wearing cat's ears.
Just the top shelf behind her 😹
The bigger double take was when Kara said that the Washington Post is a left wing rag
Stick to Egyptology, bab! 🤣🤣
Is Megan on only fans?
We teach new Atenism covenant
Might there possibly be a connection not only between Gk. ADONIS and Heb. ADONAI with Egyp. ATEN (also formerly transliterated ATON), but also with the Heb. EDEN (spelled Ayin-Daleth-Nun: `eDheN), which is etymologically related to Gk. 'hedone', and means 'delight' or 'pleasure', as in the Garden of Eden, the Garden of Paradise or Pleasure for the 'Elohim in Genesis?
There's an Egyptian creation story involving 'God' [i.e. Neb-er-tcher = 'Lord to the uttermost limit'] taking upon himself the form of a Creator [i.e. Khepera -- familiar to us as the Dung Beetle or Gk. Karabos = Lat. Scarabaeus = Eng. Scarab beetle, who pushes the Sun above the horizon to its zenith (etc.), which I think the author of Genesis adapted into the twin Kherubim positioned at the eastern gate of Eden, the 'flaming sword' representing the furthest extent of the Sun at the Summer and Winter solstices; the Egyptian word Khepera seems to have undergone a switch in the order of consonants when the Greeks coined their word Karabos (the 'P' becoming a 'B'), and with the Latin language adding an initial 'S' to the Greek word: Karab+os = S+Carab+aeus = English 'Scarab'.]
This Egyptian 'Creator' god Khepera acted in the midst of the primordial waters of 'Nu', uttering his name of "Khepera" in order to conjure the world into existence: the Atmosphere ['Shu'], the waters above the firmament ['Tefnut'], the offspring of this pair being the Sky-goddess ['Nut'] and the Earth-god ['Keb'], with the creation of Shu and Tefnut being ascribed to an act of sexual union with his own shadow and/or an act of masturbation.
Might not the idea of Khepera's experience of self-pleasuring be at the root of the notion that the place where Creation (on Earth) happened be enacted later became known as 'Eden', a word which bears some similarity phonetically to the Greek 'hedone' (source of the English word 'hedonism'), the god Adonis, the Hebrew god-name Adonai, the god esteemed at Amarna named 'Aten'/'Aton'...?
Adonis was killed by a Boar, and the Greek word for 'wild boar' is Kapros . . . perhaps signifying the 'death' of the Sun when it sets over the western horizon (?). Gk. Kapros also means "a he-goat" = Lat. Caper -- picture a goat-footed Satyr 'capering' lustily, like Priapus with his exaggerated phallus on display.
Something tells me that evangelical Christians probably don't like the idea that each of the 6-day Creation acts of 'genesis' -- where God [Elohim] SPEAKS and >POOF!< something is brought into Being "and it was good" -- might be alluding to God having actual orgasms of a self-induced nature, like Khepera in the Egyptian story. Might not the primordial 'Darkness' [Heb. ChoSheKh] be akin to the 'shadow' of Khepera with which he achieved 'union' via acts of pronouncing his own name -- be it "Kepera!" or "YHWH!" depending on the culture and language?
One wonders if the Light that YHWH created on Day 1 was a blue light, allowing CSI forensic people to see God's 'seed' aglow in the Darkness...!
The Israelite Samaritan Version of the Torah: First English Translation Compared with the Masoretic Version
This is the True Torah of Yehowah. Read it and apply the teachings in it to your daily life so that you will be blessed with life in the Name of Yehowah. He alone is Elohim and King of Eternity.
Yehowah YiMlok L'Olam Wa'ed
🎉🎉🎉
NO CATHOLICS view Mary as a Goddess and/ or worship her. YOUR understanding of that is flawed so...why would anyone listen to your understanding of ancient culture???
Maybe because Dr. Cooney has spent decades researching and studying, and is a highly-respected expert on the topic?
Your ignorant of the history on Jesus is shocking,!
Lower Egypt was Canaanites @Hebrews Semitic people Same gods ,,,,upper Egypt was Hamites
She has no idea about akhenaten and his monotheism. No creditability except at all her only work as egyptologist is taking a picture next to Nefertiti's tomb . Please disregard anything she said about a king who was ahead of his time by thousand years and according to many scholars he inspired many texts in the torah to such a degree that many scholars thought Moses was one of his lieutenants. She's a fraud
She’s one of the most well-respected Egyptologists in the US, but please, tell me more about her lack of expertise and qualifications 🙄
One day the Egyptians, Sumerians, Assyrians, and all people groups will admit that God alone is true. They'll admit this on the day of judgment.
It is written: "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God." Romans 14:11
"At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phillipions 2:10-11
She said Patakh and the star trek geek in me got excited lol
Your white privilege? Ok I’m out.
This isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure.
@@DigitalHammurabi Ah what a good quip from the “scholarly” crowd. Well done.
If you can’t understand why some people don’t want to hear political or self loathing bullshit when they’ve come for science then good luck to you.
@@Actuary1776 She owned you. Later.
@@DigitalHammurabi I don’t know what this means but OK.
I love when the trash takes itself out. Saves me the trouble.
What a lie about Trump supporters...stop the lies already
🤣 Exactly. I know Professors with PhDs who voted for Trump.
Maybe her parents raised her as a narcissist ie she is God! Slavery in the Congo colbolt mines for your cellphone lithium batteries ! Your very arrogant slavery for goble warming l
@@Biblical_DNAWell, that demonstrates their stupidity.
Ptah = monotheist God of Memphis before they lost their war to the Ennead
All gods are three, Amon Ra and Ptah.
Hebrew Israelites were notorious for idol worship... something they quickly returned to during the Exodus story which this video supports IMO.
The wokery is strong with this one.
And yet, you're still here...
@@DigitalHammurabi came for the scholarship, didn't need the added goofballery. But perhaps you can't see the difference. Look, dude, if you want to school me on Akkadian past participles, I'm game. But for the love of the lord Jesus Christ, don't play politics. I'd kill you in a debate on that.
@@jason666king Who's debating politics? I'm just amused that you're so deeply offended by an interview on ancient history. And goofballery is part of the channel, always has been. If it's not to your taste, feel free to get your scholarship elsewhere ;)
@@DigitalHammurabi you're funny. I'm guessing you're an intern answering the phone. I'll even ignore the orange ⛑️ 🪖
Do you want timestamps? Because this manless woman is clearly on the rag. Btw, being adjacent to a Y chromosome is not the same as having a man. And I get my scholarship from actual scholars, not woke pundits. I dare you to ask me for timestamps. Double dog dare you. I'll make you look silly as three left shoes.