A lot of anti-Chinese comments but the real reason stuff is made in China is because we buy it. This has been going on for 70 plus years starting in Japan and then Mexico. I live near Buffalo, NY which used to have a huge steel industry. Now it is a ghost town of abandoned factories and steel mills that go on for miles along Hwy 5 in South Buffalo. The only solution is for all of us to pay more for local products which we probably never will.
I don't see why buying a certain number of imported things is bad, so long as the balance of trade is good. Unfortunately, when doing business in China, balance of trade was practically nonexistant.
The problem with surfacing the intake manifold head ports is that when you take off material from the faces it changes the fit of the manifold. It will drop down further because it’s now narrower. Sometimes you will need thicker intake gaskets.
Agreed. Thicker gaskets and remove some material from the end rails to make sure it will sit down on the block and heads. If you don't it may hit the block too soon on setting it down,, and not be able to seal on the head side. Here's a calculator. Says for 0.008" off of the intake sides, 0.0114" should com off of the end rails. wallaceracing.com/calc-intake-mill.php
Out of all the machines in your shop i am the most fond of that grinder. Somethin about that startup sound and then the time to spool down just makes me happy.
@Abom79 - Do you want the opinion of an old machinist - mechanical engineer with 51 years experience and 35 years in aerospace machining ? You use stones to remove any burrs from a nesting surface = A pro does that . You use a Starrett indicator and pull the stem up while making adjustments with a mallet so the indicator doesn't get shocked = A pro does that . Tap Magic = Pro ... and I'm a Blue Dykem freak for the first pass to see where things are going . MEK from a spray bottle is nifty . The only experience I've ever had doing what you do is on a 3 axis conventional mill or CNC using a diamond fly cutter which is very time consuming . Respect sent and Thanks for sharing your knowledge . All the best . Lefty
You have no idea how good I feel when I see you have posted a new vid Adam . I`m not a machinist at all . I repair vintage audio for a living , what I like about your videos is you , your personality shines Adam . You clearly are a perfectionist in your work and only people that have a genuine love for what they do can do that , and that`s why its so rare . Keep doing what you are doing Adam and I and I`m sure , many hundreds of thousands of other people will keep watching . Much love from the UK.
AAHH yess...your video is a trip down nostalgia lane for me....for forty odd years I ran machines such as these...the sound of them is music to my ears...thanks for the memories...when I first started there were many job and production shops in most every town..by the last years before my retirement they were a scarce commodity...I often wondered what became of them all..til I saw an article in national geographic showing a Vietnamese worker running one in a sweat shop in Vietnam...he was barefoot and no shirt or even safety glasses...how the mighty have fallen...now CNC faces a similar fate as we move into 3d printing
Thanks AB as to some comments not too nice , some of us that really think your work is cool , and don't have , heaps of cash ,we learn how to fix things , by your teaching ,to make doo with what we have at hand , ( and don't live in the USA ) all the best from Rarotonga . ( your teaching is international )
Gday Adam, nothing beats a shaper, my little 11” stroke shaper is by far the most favourite machine I have, thanks for another great video, Cheers Matty
I think this is the first shaper video where there aren't a load of "use a mill" comments:D Such a straighftorward setup shows the shaper's advantage for this kind of work👍
Adam, I love your attention to detail. Getting it as close as you can. While I agree with most everyone else about a Chinese intake, but that's what the guy has. You improved it by your machinist skills. Well done. Great videos.
What a great video series so far. No matter your "machining" experience, I've found what I learned watching all your video's is my experience with drilling, chamfering etc materials has been more enjoyable. I smile when I get a long trail of drilling chips or go the right speed using a counter sink and not have chattering and using the oils you use to drill and knock the burr off. I've used really crappy drill bits in the past and got drill dust when drilling. It sucked. Now, it's enjoyable. I love that shaper! I'm glad it didn't take too much material to get it flat. Sometimes, too much can make it difficult to re-assemble with different angles. Shaper Time! #becauseican! When all is said and done, I'd love to see the car run after and how nice it was to put back together!
You just have to love this guy! I would like to spend some time with him in his workshop. He is so thorough and no obstacles is too big. "Hmm here I see a problem. This thing doesn't fit in here I just mount it to my machine xxxx and fiddle a little bit with it. No problem" Me in the same situation. MAMAAAA !!!! ;)
Since you don't use the side of the shaper table very often, please just create a plate that can be T-nutted to the table and protect the side. Could be plywood, hardboard, or a metal plate. Gives protection to the table on the side from casual dings, etc. while moving past it.
It's awsome to see some one take pride to have a cleanshop and equipment ,fine tuned oiled and clean.I worked in manufacturing 35 years it was a good feeling to have your work station clean and stocked so everyday that u went o work it was a clean environment (OSHA ) after each day clean and lube ,worked manual mill,lathes and CNC kittymura.
Nice Adam, thanks for yet another lesson in the care and feeding of the garden variety shaper.I see from the comments that I am not the only one who caught the nation of origin . Thanks for another great video, cheers!
Hey Abom79! Thanks for the entertaining and informative video in these times of lockdown! Special thanks to Abby for keeping you company! Ride ride ride!
For what it is worth I often have to remachine Brodix edelbrock and dart stuff too. It seems prefinished parts come from all over the world these days. I find that as cnc has become more prevalent the quality has deteriorated as now there are mostly only operators not machinists making part and they just assume since it came off the machine it is good. It never gets checked.
It's weird seeing all of the China bashing comments when it comes to aftermarket parts, a friend of mine has been to the US from Australia to do a business and manufacturing case study on producing aftermarket performance Ford engine blocks, he ended up with a base cost for the casting on the engine blocks to be $5k US per unit and then another $5.5k US to finish machine per unit at a different location to the casting. The production run was based on 500 units, the time given for production to start was 18 months and end of production to be 48 months. He followed up with a visit to China for the same study and was given a cost of $3.5k per unit, casted and machined all in the same plant, state of the art facilities and CNC machinery, produced to his exact specification, production to be started in 1 month and end of production estimated at 13 months, shipped to Australia inclusive in cost. There was no where in Australia that could even do it, we don't even have manufacturing facilities that could undertake something like that. He is on the second run of blocks now out of China.
As an Aussie, it disappoints me we can't manufacture (much) anymore. Especially with computers and machines and 3D printing and robotics and CNC and CAD / CAM etc I would have thought the labour component is pretty low compared to the rest of those expenses, therefore Australia's really high labour cost (compared to the US, let alone China) would only add minimal additional cost, and especially for decent production runs (not one-offs). There is good Chinese stuff manufactured to high tolerances, but there is a lot of crap Chinesium stuff too, hard to differentiate based on country of origin, whereas other countries (say Japan or Germany) produce mostly high quality stuff. And Australia digs it out of the ground for them, or grows it . . .
I can understand the hatred of the CCP at the moment. Describing Australia as a piece of gum stuck to the sole of China that should be scraped off on a rock. That statement was through a CCP controlled media outlet. Of course they are cheap they extort thier workers/population and there is a lot of evidence that they are using slave labour in many factories. Sending our money to a communist dictatorship is ethically bankrupt...
I'm glad you had enough play in the t-slot to tap it in square. I've been holding my breath, waiting to see if it worked out, since you didn't indicate the manifold parallel when mounting it on the fixture plate.
supposedly these are made any more, however if they were so great then there are bound to be some available across the pick&part network. I think his friend just went cheap rather than look around maybe. Another reason why you get what you pay for.
That's cool that you can operate all those different lathes, mills, shapers, etc. I like watching all the set up for the different machines Great Video nice tutorial Thanks William Orange county, ca.
The shaper sounds like it was upgraded to diesel power. Another awesome vid....especially for an engine guy. Thanks for sharing! And yes you are correct....that finish will be great to help the gaskets seal. That’s a common misconception with people who aren’t engine builders. You actually WANT tooling marks in there. If you have a super smooth finish, you’re just asking for gasket failure. Flatness like you have accomplished here is much more important than surface finish. Within reason of course. Good work!
Since you are an engine builder, is there any specific finish pattern that is ideal for intake manifolds vs head surfaces? Most of the surfaces I have seen are circular due to the nature of the machining process and I was wondering if there is a best pattern or if it just needs some"tooth" Another question I have for you, is it very common for a engine builder to have to do some finish resurfacing on an item like this or was it just carelessness on the manufacturer's part that the surfaces weren't well prepared? Thanks
Just a thought.....Were the savings of buying a made in China manifold worth the cost of Adam’s work? Was reminded of something my late Uncle ( an ex Navy man) used to say, “buy something cheap, you get something cheap”. RIP Chas. Miss you.
Some people say "If you can't afford to do the job right, what makes you think you can afford to the the job twice?" I work in auto repair and explain that to people who want the cheapest replacement part, which will last one year.
I love to watch you running the shaper! Hope you realize that you have the toolholder in backwards. The nut should be at front and the tool bit behind. If you look closely at the geometry you will see that any spring will then take the cutter out of the cut, whereas with the tool bit forward, it will spring into the cut. Not a big deal on a light job such as the aluminum manifold, but it could cause chatter on a heavier job. This isn the same reason they used a gooseneck tool on old planers.
Not 100% sure, but I think skimming those surfaces may drop the intake lower in the valley and the fasteners may not line up properly with the head holes. Also it may "pull" the heads inward towards each other... :-)
A thicker gasket might help that but not sure what the tolerance is on that manifold. But after the machining it may be level but it will also be smaller between the heads. Hopefully the owner has a plan for that and had that in mind when giving instructions.
I was thinking the same. My guess is Abom will advise how much was taken off each side and it is up to the owner the increase gasket thickness accordingly.
Adam, Great video I’m so mesmerized over watching the shaper that I wonder what was most can a shaper do, “How specialized did a shaper ever become.?.!.” I’m really glad that you’ve taken such a big interest in your shaper and use it and show what yours can do, thanks for sharing your video with us.!.!.!.
Your videos open a new world of technology. I am constantly amazed at your heavy duty tools and the gadgets you have for set ups. I had no idea that this kind of work was being done.
I love the slow motion shots of this machine working. So freaking cool... My wife likes to put soft asian music with water sounds on in the background to set the mood. I could listen to abomb videos for the same result. Thanks for making all this spectacular content, brother. I wish I was closer to where you are. I have a bunch of work I would love for you to do.
Not a bad idea here, Adam! I know you were going to be making up a new chip bucket for the end of the shaper. Might be an idea to make up a cover to the exposed side as well? Or maybe even a square of 1/4" UHMW that you can bolt to the table. Like, make a few t-nuts that fit in the slots and have 1/4-20 hex bolts that hold the plastic sheet in place? Might make a good SNS or other video!
I'm not a machinist in any way, but I have done a lot of complicated woodworking. Your projects remind me in so many ways of things I've done over the years where the majority of the work is quite often the precise setup and jig making. The actual cuts go quickly but if you don't have the setup right everything else will go badly very quickly. The one major difference is of course the tolerances. You work with much smaller numbers than a woodworker! But it's always very interesting to watch you.
Obviously, Adam does a great job, but I can't help but wonder if it's worth the expense of buying the part then having it precision machined. Would it have been less expensive to buy the part from Ford Performance or Summit Racing rather than a cheap Chinesium part that wasn't properly finished at the factory?
I was curious as to why the manifold was not straight then I saw it "Made in China" well done Adam for the way you went about holding and machining this awkward part.
Same in the UK guys, we used to make everything and I mean everything but now we struggle to make a nut and bolt. Good job though Adam. I'm sure you get feedback from your clients, it would be nice to know if this mod sorted the issues. Thanks for video Adam. regards Gareth
We make all sort in work from medical/aerospace/military. The most fun thing for me is, my Axminster combination square (factory seconds) arrived today. Equivalent to a Starrett, going to be doing a OxTools on it.
When I was in college we used the shaper and I hated it never felt in control of the machine but after watching you setting it up and using it I have developed a whole new appreciation for it.
watched all your segments pertaining to the Manifold as well as the mounting bracket, through to the main shaper Finish. Excellent work. Keep up your great tuition.. The only thing I would like to mention, is that when I did my first V8 manifold mod, I didn't account for the Flat edge on the base of the "V" section, where it seats across the engine block between the heads.. Consequently I had a water leak, because the Manifold sat proud of the base. Soon as I worked out the amount and machine the flat from side to side of the Base of the "V" all was good. I must mention that both heads had .060" taken of them to lift the compression on a normally aspirated Chev. "V8" with Twin 4 barrel Holley Carbs.
I hope they realize that taking material off the intake face will make the intake sit further down in the between the heads. They may need to do some port matching.
But if they used a Thicker gasket they wouldn't have ever ran into this problem it was out 4 thou......that imo is not enough to cause a leak with a proper good quality gasket! The entire time I'm screaming......something else to me doesn't add up! A leak when something is 4 thou out doesn't male sense there are cars brand new today that have gasketed parts which are further out than that and they seal up! So I will bet money after all this they will have the same problem bc its not a machining problem unless this man isn't using gaskets and he's trying to use rtv or some other bullshit......they make extra thick gaskets for just this purpose and if he had to take 4thou or more off the other side then the owner of said manifold is def gonna have other problems bc the drop on the manifold is compounded even more than the amount you shaved off!!!!! Bad move here! Jus my opinion tho......if the dahm thing leaks again after this the owner will never say a word he will just change the manifold and act like he didn't spend hundreds on a 50 dollar manifold. Gurantee he won't come back for an update saying ya that didn't fix it..
Adam it’s no wonder your channel is doing so well. Not only is your content educational and entertaining, your production quality is outstanding. Well done!
Are you going to mill the china rails as well? If not there will be problems with leaving a gap between the gasket, head, and Intake as well as having to add clearance in the bolt holes. Or they might need to run thicker intake gaskets to seal properly.
@@FullSendPrecision Been there and done that. That is why I was asking. I know Fel-Pro does make intake gaskets with different crush thicknesses to compensate for this.
@@twisted2291 Mortar:(.......I had an intake in Northern Ontario be really warped when I got it. It had to do until spring until I could replace it. I can tell you it wasn't pretty!
That shaper is an awe-inspiring machine! The only thing missing is a lift through trap doors in the ceiling, a wild thunderstorm,, and maniacal laughter! "It is alive!!"
Chinese intake... It's basically buying scrap metal in the general shape then having to dial it in.. As long as the end costs are still worth it.. The owner may as well spend some time cleaning up the runner's. That thing is gnarly.
LaxianKey1 he’s stated many times in the past that his machine choice for projects is more about learning to use different machines than you might normally use to do a job to help himself and his viewers learn new ways to use them, and if a shop has the main machine you’d use tied up maybe you can use another machine to do that job as a machinist. It’s about having fun and learning, not about doing it the easiest and fastest possible way...
OK, a huge number of comments about Chinese "junk" yadda yadda. The simple truth is that the Chinese are very capable of producing high quality products. But for the US market, they send over the cheap junk because Americans want cheap. Look at the success of WalMart selling cheap Chinese goods. If they produced a manifold comparable to an Edelbrock, it would cost as much as an Edelbrock. They produce and sell what people are buying.
Truth... I'd be curious as to the cost of purchasing a quality product vs. the cost of re-machining junk, and an accurate comparison of both in the end.
So many interruptions today, FINALLY I have managed to watch this edition to the end, as always great content, I am not a machinist, but a mechanic (even an old one ) learns much from every aspect of the trades.
I appreciate the end shots of the manifold where the phrase " MADE IN CHINA" is prominently displayed. We buy too much from China at the expense of American industry. The Pandemic has brought this to light, one positive thing that has come from this whole mess!
I want to see blooper footage of Adam taking the shaper ram to the head when going in for those close in shots. C'mon Adam, you can tell us, you've been hit by the ram before.
Thank the good lord for precision ground flat stones! I have found with the stones I have ground up that once you hear that suction cup noise when taking down a bad bur with the course side you can flip to the fine side and polish'er off. Just so you know, within reason of course... You can use these ground stones for just about any ding, scratch, dent or whatever on a MACHINED surface and it'll take care of it. But as always, love the content! Keep it coming! You and Abby stay safe and healthy in these uncertain times! Dan @6-4_Fab Glen Rock, PA, USA
So many comments triggered by "made in China" like it was some sort of secret... You've made a very rough Friday part into something usable again Adam and it's a credit to your skills and machinery. P.S. To all the commenters saying grind off the "Made in China", grinding it off doesn't make the part any better it just hides the fact from the next guy who tries to port and polish it and hits a big air void or something else special.
It was/is leaking around the front corner because this “Ford” manifold was Made in China” ( 25:55 ). Just sayin’. Why doesn’t the owner by an Edelbrock?
Just when I think I've seen it all I see another one of your videos taking to the next level impeccable work and machines I have never seen so large. Much respect
Has anyone ever thought what that process has done to the position of the manifold i the V of the engine it has LOWERED it therefore putting the port even further out of line thn they would already have been not good I know it is off a Fix Once Repair Daily but still needs thinking about
This is a real problem when heads or manifolds are milled down. As heads are milled the intake starts sitting higher because the intake surfaces on the heads are moving closer together, so the intake has to be milled as well to correct the port alignment. As an intake is milled, it sits lower on the engine and causes the same issue. Many times gaskets with different compression heights can help you with the problem. The best method is to drop the intake on the engine with no gaskets. Make sure the intake is only in contact with the heads and not the "china" walls at the ends. Now scribe a line on the head over each intake port. Take the intake back off and measure the average misalignment of each port and take an average taking into account the thickness of the manifold at each port. Now, if you do some trig (which is dependent on the engine and what angles the manifold surfaces are set to) and you'll know where the manifold wants to be to create the best average port alignment. You also have to account for the compression height of the gasket. This will also let you look at a list of available gasket thicknesses to maybe help create a working solution. With a popular engine like a SBF or SBC you'll have more choices than something obscure when it comes to gaskets. Now, at this point you are ready to gasket match the ports, but doing so before establishing that the ports are even lining up is futile.
I had same thoughts @Pete Nikolic. HOPEFULLY there was enough clearance that the cuts will not be an issue. I never use the gaskets there anyway - a nice bead of RTV and set it down and don't move it. (learned that from many PROFESSIONAL engine builders) - I just follow what THEY have found works best.
Finer than frogs hair is the one I grew up with, It takes longer to set up than to do something so I guess you factor all the moves an make sure that you don't waste part of one... nice work
Hey Adam; Glad to see someone extolling the virtues of Tap Magic for Aluminum. Man, for years I used WD-40, or more often regular kerosene, which seemed to do a little better than the WD. I got some of the Tap Magic AL and what a good improvement. Much less in the way of chip welding. I like that stuff! And what people said about the "made in China" part, well, the guy is paying for his mistake now, isn't he? I'm glad you got the work, but, when will people learn? The Chinese will get away with anything they can and call it good. It ain't good. What a shame. Great vid. Thanks! Dean
A lot of anti-Chinese comments but the real reason stuff is made in China is because we buy it. This has been going on for 70 plus years starting in Japan and then Mexico. I live near Buffalo, NY which used to have a huge steel industry. Now it is a ghost town of abandoned factories and steel mills that go on for miles along Hwy 5 in South Buffalo. The only solution is for all of us to pay more for local products which we probably never will.
Be careful people don't like it when you explain why things are the way they are. Especially if it doesn't fit their worldview.
I'm no American but I totally agree with you. We have the same problem in my country too.
I don't see why buying a certain number of imported things is bad, so long as the balance of trade is good. Unfortunately, when doing business in China, balance of trade was practically nonexistant.
3 hour set up for 20 minute job, this is why custom machining is costly. It is a labor of love
Just what I needed to see: "Abom has uploaded 44 seconds ago" :)
The machining doesn't take long, but man the setup is crazy!
The problem with surfacing the intake manifold head ports is that when you take off material from the faces it changes the fit of the manifold. It will drop down further because it’s now narrower. Sometimes you will need thicker intake gaskets.
Agreed. Thicker gaskets and remove some material from the end rails to make sure it will sit down on the block and heads. If you don't it may hit the block too soon on setting it down,, and not be able to seal on the head side. Here's a calculator. Says for 0.008" off of the intake sides, 0.0114" should com off of the end rails. wallaceracing.com/calc-intake-mill.php
Out of all the machines in your shop i am the most fond of that grinder. Somethin about that startup sound and then the time to spool down just makes me happy.
@Abom79 - Do you want the opinion of an old machinist - mechanical engineer with 51 years experience and 35 years in aerospace machining ?
You use stones to remove any burrs from a nesting surface = A pro does that .
You use a Starrett indicator and pull the stem up while making adjustments with a mallet so the indicator doesn't get shocked = A pro does that .
Tap Magic = Pro ... and I'm a Blue Dykem freak for the first pass to see where things are going . MEK from a spray bottle is nifty .
The only experience I've ever had doing what you do is on a 3 axis conventional mill or CNC using a diamond fly cutter which is very time consuming . Respect sent and Thanks for sharing your knowledge . All the best . Lefty
Like your opinions Lefty. Spot on.
Takes a Pro to spot a Pro.
No armchair here.
You have no idea how good I feel when I see you have posted a new vid Adam . I`m not a machinist at all . I repair vintage audio for a living , what I like about your videos is you , your personality shines Adam . You clearly are a perfectionist in your work and only people that have a genuine love for what they do can do that , and that`s why its so rare . Keep doing what you are doing Adam and I and I`m sure , many hundreds of thousands of other people will keep watching . Much love from the UK.
AAHH yess...your video is a trip down nostalgia lane for me....for forty odd years I ran machines such as these...the sound of them is music to my ears...thanks for the memories...when I first started there were many job and production shops in most every town..by the last years before my retirement they were a scarce commodity...I often wondered what became of them all..til I saw an article in national geographic showing a Vietnamese worker running one in a sweat shop in Vietnam...he was barefoot and no shirt or even safety glasses...how the mighty have fallen...now CNC faces a similar fate as we move into 3d printing
Nice work, Adam. Cleaned up great with only 8 thou removal. So much for all those people saying it wouldn't bolt up afterwards!
Thanks AB as to some comments not too nice , some of us that really think your work is cool , and don't have , heaps of cash ,we learn how to fix things , by your teaching ,to make doo with what we have at hand , ( and don't live in the USA ) all the best from Rarotonga . ( your teaching is international )
Gday Adam, nothing beats a shaper, my little 11” stroke shaper is by far the most favourite machine I have, thanks for another great video, Cheers Matty
I think this is the first shaper video where there aren't a load of "use a mill" comments:D Such a straighftorward setup shows the shaper's advantage for this kind of work👍
Adam, I love your attention to detail. Getting it as close as you can. While I agree with most everyone else about a Chinese intake, but that's what the guy has. You improved it by your machinist skills. Well done. Great videos.
What a great video series so far. No matter your "machining" experience, I've found what I learned watching all your video's is my experience with drilling, chamfering etc materials has been more enjoyable. I smile when I get a long trail of drilling chips or go the right speed using a counter sink and not have chattering and using the oils you use to drill and knock the burr off. I've used really crappy drill bits in the past and got drill dust when drilling. It sucked. Now, it's enjoyable. I love that shaper! I'm glad it didn't take too much material to get it flat. Sometimes, too much can make it difficult to re-assemble with different angles. Shaper Time! #becauseican! When all is said and done, I'd love to see the car run after and how nice it was to put back together!
The editing of the video requires almost the precision of the machining. This guy nails it.
You just have to love this guy! I would like to spend some time with him in his workshop.
He is so thorough and no obstacles is too big.
"Hmm here I see a problem. This thing doesn't fit in here
I just mount it to my machine xxxx and fiddle a little bit with it. No problem"
Me in the same situation. MAMAAAA !!!!
;)
First rule of shaper operation and that is STOP THE RAM before having a closer look............Great job setting things right again.
Always enjoy watching you work it’s exceptional and your attention to detail is a credit to you.
Take care from the UK..🇬🇧
Abom79 is how I unwind at the end of a long day.
Since you don't use the side of the shaper table very often, please just create a plate that can be T-nutted to the table and protect the side. Could be plywood, hardboard, or a metal plate. Gives protection to the table on the side from casual dings, etc. while moving past it.
It's awsome to see some one take pride to have a cleanshop and equipment ,fine tuned oiled and clean.I worked in manufacturing 35 years it was a good feeling to have your work station clean and stocked so everyday that u went o work it was a clean environment (OSHA ) after each day clean and lube ,worked manual mill,lathes and CNC kittymura.
It is a privilege to watch a Master Machinist. Thank You.
Nice Adam, thanks for yet another lesson in the care and feeding of the garden variety shaper.I see from the comments that I am not the only one who caught the nation of origin . Thanks for another great video, cheers!
I friggin love that shaper.
Hey Abom79! Thanks for the entertaining and informative video in these times of lockdown! Special thanks to Abby for keeping you company! Ride ride ride!
For what it is worth I often have to remachine Brodix edelbrock and dart stuff too. It seems prefinished parts come from all over the world these days. I find that as cnc has become more prevalent the quality has deteriorated as now there are mostly only operators not machinists making part and they just assume since it came off the machine it is good. It never gets checked.
Brian, you got that noise right!!
I love the thoroughness of your videos. They give a real sense of the amount of care needed to pull this stuff off.
It's weird seeing all of the China bashing comments when it comes to aftermarket parts, a friend of mine has been to the US from Australia to do a business and manufacturing case study on producing aftermarket performance Ford engine blocks, he ended up with a base cost for the casting on the engine blocks to be $5k US per unit and then another $5.5k US to finish machine per unit at a different location to the casting. The production run was based on 500 units, the time given for production to start was 18 months and end of production to be 48 months.
He followed up with a visit to China for the same study and was given a cost of $3.5k per unit, casted and machined all in the same plant, state of the art facilities and CNC machinery, produced to his exact specification, production to be started in 1 month and end of production estimated at 13 months, shipped to Australia inclusive in cost.
There was no where in Australia that could even do it, we don't even have manufacturing facilities that could undertake something like that.
He is on the second run of blocks now out of China.
As an Aussie, it disappoints me we can't manufacture (much) anymore. Especially with computers and machines and 3D printing and robotics and CNC and CAD / CAM etc I would have thought the labour component is pretty low compared to the rest of those expenses, therefore Australia's really high labour cost (compared to the US, let alone China) would only add minimal additional cost, and especially for decent production runs (not one-offs). There is good Chinese stuff manufactured to high tolerances, but there is a lot of crap Chinesium stuff too, hard to differentiate based on country of origin, whereas other countries (say Japan or Germany) produce mostly high quality stuff. And Australia digs it out of the ground for them, or grows it . . .
I can understand the hatred of the CCP at the moment. Describing Australia as a piece of gum stuck to the sole of China that should be scraped off on a rock. That statement was through a CCP controlled media outlet. Of course they are cheap they extort thier workers/population and there is a lot of evidence that they are using slave labour in many factories. Sending our money to a communist dictatorship is ethically bankrupt...
I'm glad you had enough play in the t-slot to tap it in square. I've been holding my breath, waiting to see if it worked out, since you didn't indicate the manifold parallel when mounting it on the fixture plate.
Im curious what the cost of this Chinese manifold plus the market cost of machining is compared to just buying a quality part in the first place.
supposedly these are made any more, however if they were so great then there are bound to be some available across the pick&part network. I think his friend just went cheap rather than look around maybe. Another reason why you get what you pay for.
That's cool that you can operate all those different lathes, mills, shapers, etc. I like watching all the set up for the different machines
Great Video nice tutorial Thanks William Orange county, ca.
You are doing really great job, I allready have watched most of your videos, greetings from Poland!
The shaper sounds like it was upgraded to diesel power. Another awesome vid....especially for an engine guy. Thanks for sharing! And yes you are correct....that finish will be great to help the gaskets seal. That’s a common misconception with people who aren’t engine builders. You actually WANT tooling marks in there. If you have a super smooth finish, you’re just asking for gasket failure. Flatness like you have accomplished here is much more important than surface finish. Within reason of course. Good work!
Since you are an engine builder, is there any specific finish pattern that is ideal for intake manifolds vs head surfaces? Most of the surfaces I have seen are circular due to the nature of the machining process and I was wondering if there is a best pattern or if it just needs some"tooth"
Another question I have for you, is it very common for a engine builder to have to do some finish resurfacing on an item like this or was it just carelessness on the manufacturer's part that the surfaces weren't well prepared?
Thanks
Just a thought.....Were the savings of buying a made in China manifold worth the cost of Adam’s work? Was reminded of something my late Uncle ( an ex Navy man) used to say, “buy something cheap, you get something cheap”. RIP Chas. Miss you.
Richard Scott I had exactly the same thought .... had to double check the spelling of Edelbrock. We all thank your uncle for his service.
👍
Some people say "If you can't afford to do the job right, what makes you think you can afford to the the job twice?" I work in auto repair and explain that to people who want the cheapest replacement part, which will last one year.
Oh my... You make me want a shaper! I learn about something new from every single video. Thanks Adam!
How much can you remove from the port sides of the manifold and not effect the deck height ?
They are lucky to have you to do this. Shops around my house would just tell you to go buy a good one.
I would grind off the cast-in "Made In China" and engrave "Corrected By Booth Machine Shop".
Saw the same thing and thought, "Well, there's the problem."
I love to watch you running the shaper! Hope you realize that you have the toolholder in backwards. The nut should be at front and the tool bit behind. If you look closely at the geometry you will see that any spring will then take the cutter out of the cut, whereas with the tool bit forward, it will spring into the cut. Not a big deal on a light job such as the aluminum manifold, but it could cause chatter on a heavier job. This isn the same reason they used a gooseneck tool on old planers.
Not 100% sure, but I think skimming those surfaces may drop the intake lower in the valley and the fasteners may not line up properly with the head holes. Also it may "pull" the heads inward towards each other... :-)
Yup, more taken off, the more off the bolt holes get.
I was thinking the same thing just didn't know how to phrase it.
A thicker gasket might help that but not sure what the tolerance is on that manifold. But after the machining it may be level but it will also be smaller between the heads. Hopefully the owner has a plan for that and had that in mind when giving instructions.
Kinda depends on the heads too. Too much off the heads or milled to an angle and the standard intake won't fit.
I was thinking the same. My guess is Abom will advise how much was taken off each side and it is up to the owner the increase gasket thickness accordingly.
Adam, Great video I’m so mesmerized over watching the shaper that I wonder what was most can a shaper do, “How specialized did a shaper ever become.?.!.” I’m really glad that you’ve taken such a big interest in your shaper and use it and show what yours can do, thanks for sharing your video with us.!.!.!.
im not a machinist ! by any stretch ! I am a marine tech in vic bc Canada I have found using brake clean works very well when sanding or finishing !!
Your videos open a new world of technology. I am constantly amazed at your heavy duty tools and the gadgets you have for set ups. I had no idea that this kind of work was being done.
Doug, our country built a war machine the won WWII using machinery and technics like this. There were no computers around to do the math either.
Nice casting. All the savings on ebay spent at a local machine shop.
I love the slow motion shots of this machine working. So freaking cool... My wife likes to put soft asian music with water sounds on in the background to set the mood. I could listen to abomb videos for the same result. Thanks for making all this spectacular content, brother. I wish I was closer to where you are. I have a bunch of work I would love for you to do.
Adam you need to change that intake to casted in China but made in Pensacola
After reading the comments I see I'm not the only one. Gotta support
Made in China. Fixed in USA.
That part will never be worth the amount of effort you put in it
One of the many reasons you are awesome
you should make a snap on 16ga stainless cover for the side of the table so it wont get damaged again.
Not a bad idea here, Adam! I know you were going to be making up a new chip bucket for the end of the shaper. Might be an idea to make up a cover to the exposed side as well? Or maybe even a square of 1/4" UHMW that you can bolt to the table. Like, make a few t-nuts that fit in the slots and have 1/4-20 hex bolts that hold the plastic sheet in place? Might make a good SNS or other video!
True. I have some older spare sheets of uhmw I’ve been holding onto.
Man, this is Rolls Royce accuracy. Bet the engine manufacturers did not anticipate this level of accuracy. Lovely to watch. Thanks Adam from NZ.
Made in China & Fixed right in USA, great job Adam !!!
im not a machinist at all and it always amazes me on how much fine detail goes into working with machines to make good parts.
Maybe you can make a cover plate for the side of the table to protect it from dings.
I'm not a machinist in any way, but I have done a lot of complicated woodworking. Your projects remind me in so many ways of things I've done over the years where the majority of the work is quite often the precise setup and jig making. The actual cuts go quickly but if you don't have the setup right everything else will go badly very quickly. The one major difference is of course the tolerances. You work with much smaller numbers than a woodworker! But it's always very interesting to watch you.
Dave, couldnt agree more!
Obviously, Adam does a great job, but I can't help but wonder if it's worth the expense of buying the part then having it precision machined. Would it have been less expensive to buy the part from Ford Performance or Summit Racing rather than a cheap Chinesium part that wasn't properly finished at the factory?
It probably came from Summit.
That's a vise and a half. That's a massive machine that can really produce accurate work.
I was curious as to why the manifold was not straight then I saw it "Made in China" well done Adam for the way you went about holding and machining this awkward part.
Great to watch you at work Adam.. funny how much time we all take, fixing and refinishing Chinese parts.
Same in the UK guys, we used to make everything and I mean everything but now we struggle to make a nut and bolt. Good job though Adam. I'm sure you get feedback from your clients, it would be nice to know if this mod sorted the issues. Thanks for video Adam. regards
Gareth
I work in a foundry in north wales. I'm still going to work Monday to Friday in these interesting times.
Adam made a bunch of washers, so I imagine he could make nuts and bolts also. GO ADAM
We make all sort in work from medical/aerospace/military.
The most fun thing for me is, my Axminster combination square (factory seconds) arrived today. Equivalent to a Starrett, going to be doing a OxTools on it.
When I was in college we used the shaper and I hated it never felt in control of the machine but after watching you setting it up and using it I have developed a whole new appreciation for it.
You can really see the problem with this manifold clearly at 29:30, on the bottom left of the video.
Made in China ☺
watched all your segments pertaining to the Manifold as well as the mounting bracket, through to the main shaper Finish. Excellent work. Keep up your great tuition.. The only thing I would like to mention, is that when I did my first V8 manifold mod, I didn't account for the Flat edge on the base of the "V" section, where it seats across the engine block between the heads.. Consequently I had a water leak, because the Manifold sat proud of the base. Soon as I worked out the amount and machine the flat from side to side of the Base of the "V" all was good. I must mention that both heads had .060" taken of them to lift the compression on a normally aspirated Chev. "V8" with Twin 4 barrel Holley Carbs.
I hope they realize that taking material off the intake face will make the intake sit further down in the between the heads. They may need to do some port matching.
Extrude honing the runners wouldn't hurt either. Looks like a ton of turbulence on the airflow.
or a thicker gasket
I am surprised you mentioned that, I was thinking same thing... or they add a thicker gasket...
But if they used a Thicker gasket they wouldn't have ever ran into this problem it was out 4 thou......that imo is not enough to cause a leak with a proper good quality gasket! The entire time I'm screaming......something else to me doesn't add up! A leak when something is 4 thou out doesn't male sense there are cars brand new today that have gasketed parts which are further out than that and they seal up! So I will bet money after all this they will have the same problem bc its not a machining problem unless this man isn't using gaskets and he's trying to use rtv or some other bullshit......they make extra thick gaskets for just this purpose and if he had to take 4thou or more off the other side then the owner of said manifold is def gonna have other problems bc the drop on the manifold is compounded even more than the amount you shaved off!!!!! Bad move here! Jus my opinion tho......if the dahm thing leaks again after this the owner will never say a word he will just change the manifold and act like he didn't spend hundreds on a 50 dollar manifold. Gurantee he won't come back for an update saying ya that didn't fix it..
@@richmonsmith9308 maybe the guy has already blown out some thick gaskets (maybe drag racing pressures?) Just a thought.
Adam it’s no wonder your channel is doing so well. Not only is your content educational and entertaining, your production quality is outstanding. Well done!
Are you going to mill the china rails as well? If not there will be problems with leaving a gap between the gasket, head, and Intake as well as having to add clearance in the bolt holes. Or they might need to run thicker intake gaskets to seal properly.
This has been bothering me.
@@FullSendPrecision Been there and done that. That is why I was asking. I know Fel-Pro does make intake gaskets with different crush thicknesses to compensate for this.
@@twisted2291 Mortar:(.......I had an intake in Northern Ontario be really warped when I got it. It had to do until spring until I could replace it. I can tell you it wasn't pretty!
That shaper is an awe-inspiring machine! The only thing missing is a lift through trap doors in the ceiling, a wild thunderstorm,, and maniacal laughter! "It is alive!!"
Chinese intake... It's basically buying scrap metal in the general shape then having to dial it in.. As long as the end costs are still worth it.. The owner may as well spend some time cleaning up the runner's. That thing is gnarly.
Thanks for explaining the process so well. Another great video. Hello to you and Abby
I like the old blue grass intro music
He uses that for sns
You do beautiful work, Adam. Always a pleasure to watch.
Made in China.... Fixed in America.
Thanks Adam!
Love your work Adam. I cannot watch one video without learning something new. It is invaluable to learn from you - def sending some Patreon your way!
Yoo going to engrave "fixed in the US" underneath the "made in China" lettering :) ?
He damn well should....
I love your passion to perfection and doing it right .
Hello Adam. I really enjoy your videos. Just a question-why did you use the shaper instead of a rotary mill?
LaxianKey1 he’s stated many times in the past that his machine choice for projects is more about learning to use different machines than you might normally use to do a job to help himself and his viewers learn new ways to use them, and if a shop has the main machine you’d use tied up maybe you can use another machine to do that job as a machinist. It’s about having fun and learning, not about doing it the easiest and fastest possible way...
It still is fascinating to watch the shaper working. Not going to criticize the product you are working on. I hope it's improved.
OK, a huge number of comments about Chinese "junk" yadda yadda. The simple truth is that the Chinese are very capable of producing high quality products. But for the US market, they send over the cheap junk because Americans want cheap. Look at the success of WalMart selling cheap Chinese goods. If they produced a manifold comparable to an Edelbrock, it would cost as much as an Edelbrock. They produce and sell what people are buying.
Truth... I'd be curious as to the cost of purchasing a quality product vs. the cost of re-machining junk, and an accurate comparison of both in the end.
Awesome channel. I like how you show the problems along the way.
So many interruptions today, FINALLY I have managed to watch this edition to the end, as always great content, I am not a machinist, but a mechanic (even an old one ) learns much from every aspect of the trades.
I appreciate the end shots of the manifold where the phrase " MADE IN CHINA" is prominently displayed. We buy too much from China at the expense of American industry. The Pandemic has brought this to light, one positive thing that has come from this whole mess!
You are absolutely a great Machinist
I want to see blooper footage of Adam taking the shaper ram to the head when going in for those close in shots. C'mon Adam, you can tell us, you've been hit by the ram before.
Inquiring minds wanna know.
Thank the good lord for precision ground flat stones! I have found with the stones I have ground up that once you hear that suction cup noise when taking down a bad bur with the course side you can flip to the fine side and polish'er off. Just so you know, within reason of course... You can use these ground stones for just about any ding, scratch, dent or whatever on a MACHINED surface and it'll take care of it. But as always, love the content! Keep it coming! You and Abby stay safe and healthy in these uncertain times! Dan @6-4_Fab Glen Rock, PA, USA
I see the problem. Too much Chinesium in the metal.
So many comments triggered by "made in China" like it was some sort of secret... You've made a very rough Friday part into something usable again Adam and it's a credit to your skills and machinery. P.S. To all the commenters saying grind off the "Made in China", grinding it off doesn't make the part any better it just hides the fact from the next guy who tries to port and polish it and hits a big air void or something else special.
28:19 that's their problem, it was made in China
you will never forget again. thanks for sharing
It was/is leaking around the front corner because this “Ford” manifold was Made in China” ( 25:55 ). Just sayin’. Why doesn’t the owner by an Edelbrock?
Dude, I was just about to comment on that when I saw yours! I'm an Edelbrock guy from way, way back. Never had such with Vic's products.
That crappy manifold probably doesn’t flow very well. Why spend time and money on it?
Just when I think I've seen it all I see another one of your videos taking to the next level impeccable work and machines I have never seen so large. Much respect
Has anyone ever thought what that process has done to the position of the manifold i the V of the engine it has LOWERED it therefore putting the port even further out of line thn they would already have been not good
I know it is off a Fix Once Repair Daily but still needs thinking about
0.008" is less than the "squeeze-out" of gasket material. Even if it was a metal to metal fit...nothing to fret.
My thought too Pete. Not sure how much that would affect it though.
This is a real problem when heads or manifolds are milled down. As heads are milled the intake starts sitting higher because the intake surfaces on the heads are moving closer together, so the intake has to be milled as well to correct the port alignment. As an intake is milled, it sits lower on the engine and causes the same issue. Many times gaskets with different compression heights can help you with the problem.
The best method is to drop the intake on the engine with no gaskets. Make sure the intake is only in contact with the heads and not the "china" walls at the ends. Now scribe a line on the head over each intake port. Take the intake back off and measure the average misalignment of each port and take an average taking into account the thickness of the manifold at each port. Now, if you do some trig (which is dependent on the engine and what angles the manifold surfaces are set to) and you'll know where the manifold wants to be to create the best average port alignment. You also have to account for the compression height of the gasket. This will also let you look at a list of available gasket thicknesses to maybe help create a working solution. With a popular engine like a SBF or SBC you'll have more choices than something obscure when it comes to gaskets.
Now, at this point you are ready to gasket match the ports, but doing so before establishing that the ports are even lining up is futile.
I had same thoughts @Pete Nikolic. HOPEFULLY there was enough clearance that the cuts will not be an issue. I never use the gaskets there anyway - a nice bead of RTV and set it down and don't move it. (learned that from many PROFESSIONAL engine builders) - I just follow what THEY have found works best.
This is very cool and why we love our industry.
Great video. Next time tell him to buy American
The American company stopped making them.
Finer than frogs hair is the one I grew up with, It takes longer to set up than to do something so I guess you factor all the moves an make sure that you don't waste part of one... nice work
You should machine that '' made in china '' tag so people will not get confused over the quality !
Hey Adam;
Glad to see someone extolling the virtues of Tap Magic for Aluminum. Man, for years I used WD-40, or more often regular kerosene, which seemed to do a little better than the WD. I got some of the Tap Magic AL and what a good improvement. Much less in the way of chip welding. I like that stuff!
And what people said about the "made in China" part, well, the guy is paying for his mistake now, isn't he? I'm glad you got the work, but, when will people learn? The Chinese will get away with anything they can and call it good. It ain't good. What a shame.
Great vid. Thanks!
Dean
26:25 - The problem is where it was made, which is all too often true of that nation!
Love watching you work - so patient, so precise! Thanks Adam!!!
He might have to machine the heads down to match (and seal) the manifold cheers from OZ.
I doubt it...
that shaper hums its own melody because it's happy to get all the jobs. The mill is now jealous.
@26:45 There's your problem.