Hey look buddy, I'm an engineer. That means I solve problems, not problems like "What is beauty?" Because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems, for instance: how am I going to make this motherboard even more expensive? The answer, useless components , and if that don't work... Use more usless components.
I believe you specifically said "more USELESS components", and "no 6-pin connector so we don't let the PCIE slots fry themselves" is well within spec on that claim.
Also customer: "Why didn't you manage passive cooling and why does a Gigabyte board half this price (x570 master has the same controller as the xtreme) have a more cutting edge VRM?"
@@shawnpitman876 As now things looks to me - why not? i can not to think that with apropriate SoC chiplet amd can put as many ccx as they want, even it becomes useless:) just can't stop thinking about it - epics and ryzens are mostly different in this chiplet(damn, it was SO obvious solution, i mean tech of manufacturing, kind of surpise to me that there nothing like before(at least - at that scale), so glue them up!!(a bit joking, a bit not)
What i'd find funny is if they took the Phenom II cores and just directly scaled them down to 7nm, and use the more basic architecture as a way to get 32 cores per chiplet.
@ Okay, you've got me genuinely curious. If the board doesn't have video out, why would someone overclock an IGP? (Or even install an APU?) Not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious what I'm missing.
@ MSI says the 4 phase SOC VRM is for memory overclocking. Looks like your rude response was also ignorant. www.msi.com/blog/the-powerful-vrm-solution-for-msi-x570-motherboards
G'day Buildzoid, Awesome entertaining video for a rainy Saturday afternoon cup of tea in Australia, I love your board reviews & I am trying to learn more from watching them
@@zy5270 My Grandfather taught me you are not dumb if you do not know the answer to something you have never been taught, he also taught me that making an effort to learn means you are smart, no one knows everything so there is always something new you can learn, If You Want To Learn, Dumb people are the ones who don't know while saying they know & refuse to learn so they do know
These vids are starting to soak in through osmosis a bit I think. I'm not so overwhelmed by the jargon and the refs to specific manufacturers chips anymore.
Good job pointing out the shielding plane on the memory traces area. I think that is 100% what it is. I notice the surface traces a lot on cheaper boards and wonder how they get away with it. Its better buried and shielded.
Dear God Buildzoid, I love the PCB breakdowns, LOVE LOVE LOVE the rambly videos. But when Buildzoid said "4 way Fury X's, and I would totally stick 4 of them in this Motherboard" I laughed so hard mac & cheese got spit all over my Monitor, and ya know what? Worth it, not even mad lol Then I said outloud "That's SO Buildzoid, just no fucks given like ever!"
I work alot with EMI equipment and design. The reason to sandwitch the memory traces between ground planes is to prevent EMI from messing with signal integrity. The power rails tend to radiate energy at higher current states, which could potentially mess up the signals. I noticed that my Taichi board has memory errors when the CPU is overclocked hard, and is likely due to this... because at stock CPU speeds the memory can be clocked a lot higher.
Wapn Perfo well ryzens memory controller is directly affected by clock speeds on the cpu. For me if i went from 3.9ghz (ryzen 1700) down to 3.8ghz i can get my memory more stable at 3066 but at 3.9ghz i cant boot over 2933. Its just a limitation of the internal memory controller. I have an x370 taichi also and the memory has been notoriously bad on first gen ryzen. But also i have no electrical engineering experience so who really knows
48 mins to watch.... getting confortable on the toilet seat, my gf knocking on the door but i can't leave until i finish the video...... i couldn't ask for anything better to start my sunday morning
About the possibility of 4-way GPUs: If you're talking about, say, pascal nvidia cards (you did mention 4-way 1080tis), you could replace the PCIe shunt with a higher resistance resistor to trick it into pulling less of its power from the slot. That could save your 24 pin and still let you do it.
I hope MSI continues to make good boards like this. And hopefully continue the same with B*50 boards as well. Very curious as to what Asus and AsRock has to offer this time.
I'd love to see you do a video called something like "If I were to design a motherboard" where you take your knowledge in this area and apply it to designing a motherboard without current case constraints. How much of the standard AT-styled board layout leads to the difficulty of getting these boards to work well? For instance, if you had the RAM on one side of the CPU and the GPU connectors on the other side, would it be easier to route the signals?
@IbukiHimari It may not make a big difference, but fiddlers like Buildzoid go to great efforts to get GPU voltages unlocked. And there were bemoans from the clocking community that the voltages on the 20 series were locked tight and conservatively. I guess he'd like unlocked voltages - but we don't know any details of what Super is yet.
not a chance that happens.. considering EVGA even now can't officially include a bios for the 2080ti kingpin to remove the power limit, there's no way nvidia will all of a sudden support it out of the box.
This is your best breakdown video yet! Lots of useful information on the board layout, pcb quality, pcie lane layout etc! Top notch data info for dirty casuals like me :D
Hi, so I just received this board and all I can say is: remember to lift with the legs, not the back when picking up the package. I showed to my friend (who will be getting my current system when I build this new one) and he literally did a cartoon jaw drop.
So, Something Buildzoid would actually find intiresting, is there are Zotac 750 Ti Thunderbolt cards, which were never sold anywhere but china, currently on aliexpress.
Great information as always, except the PCIE power bit... I kind of wish you could somehow edit this to include that you now know that the extra CPU 8 Pins at the top of the board also supply extra power to the PCIE Slots when needed. This board can absolutely handle 4x480 if you want to without melting the 24pin or the PCIE Slots themselves.
If they have higher quality board materials they might have gone with lower capacitance traces for the RAM (good for latency), and I believe those are more sensitive to RF interference (but only by a miniscule amount). It would probably be easier to glue ferrite planes on the motherboard to try and combat stuff like that though.
Wendell, over at Level 1 Techs said that some newer motherboards like the GODLIKE, ACE and x570 Unify. (The x570 Unify would make a good PCB breakdown board) But, as far as those 3 board's with 2 8pin power connectors for the CPU. The second 8pin also can deliver extra power to the PCI-e x16 slots. Instead of another onboard 6pin.
According to the Buildzoid MSI X570 Unify analysis, it DOES use the extra CPU 8-pin to power the GPUs and thinks other MSI X570 boards do as well, including the Godlike. :)
That would be nice especially if you can use 3200mhz ram, but clock the IF to same clock as 3600mhz ram or even use 4000mhz+ ram at 1 to 1 ratio which would be crazy fast.
Thanks for this review! Say, since you've reviewed the Unify in November 2019 (where the 8 pin CPU power connectors power the GPUs), have you changed your mind on the 8 pin CPU connector(s) powering the GPU (edit: on the Godlike)?
manufacturers use the -72 power stages instead of the -75 power stages because the -75 power stages aren't available yet/ didn't get available in time.
Hey buildzoid do you have any plans on making. A video ranking the best power stages/mosfets that are currently being used, and ones you are excited about in the future?
Passive cooling , no vrm extreme, no rgb, only 1gbit lan and 32gb ram, small USB only for drivers, 2-3 PCI ex slots , matisse cpu full support, additional wired fix for pwr/led/hdd etc.if I can run GPU+nvme+sata ssd is fine.
Ciprian he was asking what to expect for b550? As in why would you buy b550 over b450? I would imagine the vrms will definitely be better than b450, probably more usb gen 3.2, beyond that i dont realy know what we could expect. Although it seems there wont be any pcie 4.0 so no chipset fan. B550 is going to be more like the majnstream board this time around. But im almost certain better vrms and usb 3.2 gen 2. The x570 chipset and the added pcb layers to support the pcie 4.0 are the main thing driving up the cost on x570 so it makes sense that to cut cost they would just cut those features and leave the rest. I would even say there will for sure be big beefy vrms on some b550 for people who want high core count but dont need or want pcie 4.0
@1:16 it really looks like the bottom PCI_E4 slot is wired for 8x. But I checked the spec page on MSI website and it confirms as BZ mentions, x4. Before all the AMD announcements, I was honestly just hoping for PCIE gen 4 to the chipset, and would have been happy with PCIE gen 3 for the extra slots hanging off the PCH, but this is amazing connectivity for a consumer board.
Its on MSIs website now, but no price. Just FYI. ASrock has a couple up, Gigabyte has a few. X570s i mean. Been scoping them out to upgrade my Steel Legend eventually.
Hey Buildzoid whats with the last +1 in the VRM description on the GODLIKE website says : 'Flagship 14+4+1 phases IR digital VRM and brand-new infinity design, symbolizes the unlimited performance and power.' And the ACE mobo says: 'Win games and set records with 12+2+1 IR digital power'
At 20:27 The missing component is actually a capacitor and the button and the capacitor might be in the final product. I think this is a final product picture on the MSI site : asset.msi.com/resize/image/global/product/product_6_20190527092315_5ceb3c032904b.png62405b38c58fe0f07fcef2367d8a9ba1/1024.png
I don't need two graphics cards. But I **DO** want an x16 slot for a card PLUS an x4-x4-x4-x4 slot so I can run a 4-card M.2 RAID array. Plus another two (not necessarily 16 lanes) for, er, stuff. Gimme.
Because those 8 pins are meant for the cpu and not pcie and I think that the mobo manufacturers imagine us literally destroying every cpu, so they were like "You need more power" 😂😂 but yeah they could have done what you said. Just ignore this comment. I don't care and neither are they
Because while one is enough there are instances were poor cables and large power output could equal houses burning down and they don't want the risk of pushing them to their theoretical limits.
@@thehumangerm but for ryzen CPUs there is actually almost no way of that happening unless there is a defect in the actual wires or something similar. Thanks mate ✌
Can't wait to see all the flavors of 4 phase VRM ASUS X570 boards, now with and without chipset fans, VRM monoblocks, and varying amounts of I/O on the boards /s
But Buildzoid, the MSI reps themselves in the interview with hardware cannucks told us that the X570 godlike is supposed to run a PCIE 4.0 Bridge chip and offer 16+16+16+4. Why is your board not the right MSI X570 MEG Godlike? Are there two versions of the board?
When the full line of Ryzen chips and x570 boards are out I would like to know (with an unlimited budget) what should I buy to get the best without wasting money. I run (win 10) yuck! and steam games. I already have the coolermaster 500p mesh case and a scythe fuma rev b for cpu cooling. I will be looking nvivida for gpu. Hopefully can contact you and get a paid for consult???? The corsair new super fast nvme when released that will also be purchased. Knowing the right board and memory would be great. Thx for the great vids....
Why is that that my M5A99FX PRO R2.0 (FX motherboard) has a chipset northbridge that has 20W output... and no fan on a relatively small chunk of aluminium, but a 14W chipset needs a massive heatsink with fan? I mean it gets hot (so hot that I put a 50mm radial "3D printer head" fan on it), but it seems like they just don't want stuff to get hot, rather than needing it to stay within spec?
Since Gigabyte apparently sells a top-end board with a passively-cooled chipset, that points to the ability of all of the boards to come with passive cooling. Instead, though, they're either using passive cooling to sell people overpriced boards or they're waiting for the 2.0 round to try to get people to buy based on these improvements.
Referring to from 04:53 in. So Buildzoid, 4 x 75W (300+ Watts in total) is too much to go through the 2 x 12V lines of the 24-pin connector, without 6-pin CPU connector support. But how much PCI-e slot Wattage **in total** can go safely through the 2 x 12V lines of the 24-pin connector, without 6-pin CPU connector support?
Hey here's something really stupid, can't you modify vBioses to limit the powerdraw from the pcie slot? I remember seeing something like that in a vBios editor. Correct me if I'm wrong :)
That's a good question. IDK about Nvidia's Turing but AMD's upcoming Navi is going to be locked even tighter on hacking that stuff. I know you can hack that stuff on Vega and Polaris though. I think I've heard you can on Pascal but I'm not as certain.
An even better question then will be will AMD expose a legit option to limit PCIe slot power on Navi. That could also explain Navi having those seemingly unnecessary dual 8 pins. Since Navi is thus far the only announced GPU architecture you could actually run quad-gpu on this board with if you could work out the power issue.
So which board per specs from each manufacturer would you recommend for no overclocking but 7-10 year use (looking for stability for production) and which board would you recommend for best chance overclocking (which one should we keep an eye out for reviews). Thank you for the video.
DragonBane im wondering the same. I think buildzoid said in a previous mobo breakdown that steve from gamers nexus was asking to get pictures of the boards at computex and asus wouldnt let then take pictures. But im wondering the same. Bad decision for asus i was almost certainly getting an asus crosshair 8 hero since the crosshair hero has been money for first and second gen ryzen, but now that all of these breakdowns are out there i have all but decided i wont be getting asus since we have no info on them. And dropping 350 dollars or more with little to no information about the board is a no go for me if im throwing a 500 cpu in there
BTW, at 21:50 you specify what the jumper JLN1 is "according to the manual of the board". I could not find the manual at the MSI website. Are you allowed to share the manual or do you know where to find it already?
Asus TUF and P X570 boards apparently put 3 powerstages into a phase :D , and of course being Asus there's no doublers whatsoever (odd number powerstages per phase in a controller can't use them anyway)
ripple and transient response yes. Efficiency is pretty much impossible to do since you can't really measure the 100A+ coming out of the VRM without causing problems.
Maybe some of the CPU 12V lines help power the PCIe slots.. I mean, they have a lot of power budget on those connectors to spare. It would at least make rational sense, if they have far too much CPU 12V lines, and not enough PCIe 12V lines. Also, why keep the 24 pin and PCIe 12 V plane separate from the CPU 12 V plane? Just in case you don't have one connected, and you don't want the other to be overloaded? Surely they can just sense if something isn't connected, or some of the lines are being overloaded.. ?
Great breakdown! Question though, 5:37 , You mentioned you shouldn't run four high-end GPU's due to not enough power via the 24-pin, and that could cause damage But if your high-end GPU is a GTX 1080 TI, and comes with a 6-pin and 8-pin slot built into it, wouldn't you just run that into the PSU and bypass having to use that 24-pin?
@@DanielBelaytv I think if you put 4 variations of 1080 Ti, which minimally use the power of PCIe slots, it will work fine, but I can't say which models of 1080 Ti is it.
Could the board divert power from the 2 8-pins EPS power connectors to the PCIe slots? Since those could handle about 800W of power, diverting up to 300W doesn't seem like a stretch to me. Not sure if it's at all possible, however since the PCIe slots don't have sense pins like the PCIe power connectors, it may as well be.
So Buildzoid must explain why one wants to have many PCIe slots other than for graphics cards? whoaw. I guess the PC gaming scene really is in trouble.
You said Asus refuses to use doublers but doesnt the C7 Hero has doublers as well? I ask because I plan to use that board for the new Ryzen CPUs and was wondering if this would be better for normal OC. Main reason os because X570 look to be very expensive just for PCIE4.
How is the impact of the VRM on the power consumption? (In basic usage, and not super high inefficient Overclock? And are 4*4gb Ram better than 2*8gb? I saw some videos that let it look like. DUAL Channel MEMORY BOARD and same Timings etc ! (In this video it sounds not like it, but why could it be true, if it was the case? )
Guys I really don't think the "Thingy" is the infinity fabric. It doesn't make any sense that it would be that since it's tied directly to memory frequency at either half/memfreq or quarter/memfreq. Infinity fabric, even on Zen 2 is very unlikely to be stable past 1800Mhz. I'm thinking it's probably related to the chipset or maybe something in the I/O die. We'll only really know for sure what the "Thingy" is though once the review embargo lifts which is probably either release day or within the week leading up to it.
Actually from AMD's own slides we already know it clocks to at least 1866 MHz on Zen2. That could be its limit, or it could possibly eke out a little more yet, but AMD specifically showed a slide showing that they could get to 3733 MHz RAM clocks without changing the IF ratio in their own testing. IIRC the next speed shown in the same slide, the first with the IF ratio changed, was a pretty big jump though, so that's why I wouldn't be too surprised if there's even just a little more room left still. Not much though.
@@abigailpatridge2948 Oh yeah I am sure there is a bit left in the tank but then you're gambling on silicon quality past 1866. I hope we can hit 2Ghz IF-Freqency but that's going to depend on quite a few factors like memory controller, the infiinity fabric itself and its associated parts, trace layout, and of course your ram itself.
@@BereanAcademyGamingClub I doubt we'll see 2 GHz except maybe on a handful of golden samples, and they'll probably be only on the 16 core at that. There's no reason AMD won't be binning the IOC's since they're on their own chip now.
Quick question, i have superclocked a Kepler card, temps are like 55 degrees celcius +360mhz on the core but i get some micro-artifacting which don't really bother me when i'm playing, but is it ok for the card? Do artifacts degrade it?
At 6:17 there are two 8-pin power connectors (up-left corner of the mobo). The MSI site says they are CPU power pins, and you're saying that you would add a 6-pin CPU pin. Could it be that these power the PCIe..? Or is it just for the CPU overlocking? (MSI does say these are for the core boost). Edit: I probably should have watched the video all the way through first, you do explain this at 20:09, and so these are just for the CPU. So it would have been better for MSI to not have these, and have a 6-pin instead...
What's funny MSI motherboards are the only one left without even preliminary Zen2 support - microcode (and all PSP stuff) is missing and there's no way to replace it as it's smallest among all x470 boards (tried and tested different ways of doing this with an AC7 user, no luck)
Just get those power connector things you put in the PCIE slot on ebay or IDK if EVGA still sells them; they used to.....Or obviously you can just make them
Being ryzen 3000 only gives 16 lanes to the GPUs and other such things. Would it be possible to use a HTC vive wireless adapter while having two rx vega cards in your system as the adapter only needs a 1x slot or would you just not have enough?
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking but you believe this one will do memory support better and most everything else is a wash between them? Doesn't that make this the better board?
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
Customer: Why did you put 4 SOC 70AMP SPS on a MB with no video outputs?
Engineer: Yes.
Hey look buddy, I'm an engineer. That means I solve problems, not problems like "What is beauty?" Because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy.
I solve practical problems, for instance: how am I going to make this motherboard even more expensive?
The answer, useless components , and if that don't work... Use more usless components.
No 6 pin tho
I believe you specifically said "more USELESS components", and "no 6-pin connector so we don't let the PCIE slots fry themselves" is well within spec on that claim.
@@mmv1503 more like make it as overkill as possible within the budget
Also customer: "Why didn't you manage passive cooling and why does a Gigabyte board half this price (x570 master has the same controller as the xtreme) have a more cutting edge VRM?"
"But Buildzoid,...." is becoming a catchphrase now
Don't you hear that in your dream? It is Buildzoid speaking to you, your PCB chief poker who insist to remind you of all the nice VRM in your sleep.
Yes, no more short BZ vids also he is back to speed talking \o/
The last video where he was tired was way faster than anything else I've seen from him 😂
Praise the long video \o/
27:04 Buildzoid caught the Valve bug, he can no longer count to 3.
Half life 3 :(
Gotta get those dual eight pins for the 128 core Ryzen 4000 top end CPUs launching next year.
pfffft, 128 cores? AMD has no regard for moores law, it'll be 256 cores 512 threads.
@@shawnpitman876 As now things looks to me - why not? i can not to think that with apropriate SoC chiplet amd can put as many ccx as they want, even it becomes useless:)
just can't stop thinking about it - epics and ryzens are mostly different in this chiplet(damn, it was SO obvious solution, i mean tech of manufacturing, kind of surpise to me that there nothing like before(at least - at that scale), so glue them up!!(a bit joking, a bit not)
@@СокЧеловеческий Make a 2080-sized daughterboard covered in chiplets! With a cable to plug into your CPU socket
What i'd find funny is if they took the Phenom II cores and just directly scaled them down to 7nm, and use the more basic architecture as a way to get 32 cores per chiplet.
NDA on thingy.
Cant talk about thingy.
But the motherboard could be good for thingy.
:D
@ First rule of thingy, we dont talk about thingy.
@ But there's no video out on the board.
@ Okay, you've got me genuinely curious. If the board doesn't have video out, why would someone overclock an IGP? (Or even install an APU?) Not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious what I'm missing.
@ Not even a hint?
@ MSI says the 4 phase SOC VRM is for memory overclocking. Looks like your rude response was also ignorant. www.msi.com/blog/the-powerful-vrm-solution-for-msi-x570-motherboards
I don't watch videos from BZ unless its 20+ mins =D
🤣🤣🤣 👍🏻
G'day Buildzoid,
Awesome entertaining video for a rainy Saturday afternoon cup of tea in Australia,
I love your board reviews & I am trying to learn more from watching them
shane eslick Same I'm trying to learn something because I'm dumb
@@zy5270 My Grandfather taught me you are not dumb if you do not know the answer to something you have never been taught,
he also taught me that making an effort to learn means you are smart, no one knows everything so there is always something new you can learn, If You Want To Learn,
Dumb people are the ones who don't know while saying they know & refuse to learn so they do know
These vids are starting to soak in through osmosis a bit I think. I'm not so overwhelmed by the jargon and the refs to specific manufacturers chips anymore.
Good job pointing out the shielding plane on the memory traces area. I think that is 100% what it is. I notice the surface traces a lot on cheaper boards and wonder how they get away with it. Its better buried and shielded.
Is 10:44 pm. 50 min video from buildzoid. Sleep is for newbs.
I finished it, no regrets. I know you can't confirm nor deny, but I believe "thingy" is either infinity fabric or l3 cache
1.5x speed ;)
@@lassevejrum5426 speedtalking w/ 1.5x acceleration, mmm looks pretty
You mean for "casuals", like BZ likes to call them :D
Who goes to sleep then? 5 am or not a gamer
I think I'm addicted to buildzoid vids especially the longer ones
I'm addicted to his ramblings!
Something therapeutic about it lol
Dear God Buildzoid, I love the PCB breakdowns, LOVE LOVE LOVE the rambly videos. But when Buildzoid said "4 way Fury X's, and I would totally stick 4 of them in this Motherboard" I laughed so hard mac & cheese got spit all over my Monitor, and ya know what? Worth it, not even mad lol Then I said outloud "That's SO Buildzoid, just no fucks given like ever!"
Always do your BIOS update during a thunderstorm. More fun that way.
I work alot with EMI equipment and design. The reason to sandwitch the memory traces between ground planes is to prevent EMI from messing with signal integrity. The power rails tend to radiate energy at higher current states, which could potentially mess up the signals. I noticed that my Taichi board has memory errors when the CPU is overclocked hard, and is likely due to this... because at stock CPU speeds the memory can be clocked a lot higher.
Wapn Perfo well ryzens memory controller is directly affected by clock speeds on the cpu. For me if i went from 3.9ghz (ryzen 1700) down to 3.8ghz i can get my memory more stable at 3066 but at 3.9ghz i cant boot over 2933. Its just a limitation of the internal memory controller. I have an x370 taichi also and the memory has been notoriously bad on first gen ryzen. But also i have no electrical engineering experience so who really knows
48 mins to watch.... getting confortable on the toilet seat, my gf knocking on the door but i can't leave until i finish the video...... i couldn't ask for anything better to start my sunday morning
A year later, I must ask - did you get any splashes on your thingy?
@@maydayj2099 😂😂😂
Is your ass still asleep?
Lol
About the possibility of 4-way GPUs: If you're talking about, say, pascal nvidia cards (you did mention 4-way 1080tis), you could replace the PCIe shunt with a higher resistance resistor to trick it into pulling less of its power from the slot. That could save your 24 pin and still let you do it.
you could also just rewire the 12V planes of the GPU to not use the PCI-e slot at all
I hope MSI continues to make good boards like this. And hopefully continue the same with B*50 boards as well. Very curious as to what Asus and AsRock has to offer this time.
I'd love to see you do a video called something like "If I were to design a motherboard" where you take your knowledge in this area and apply it to designing a motherboard without current case constraints. How much of the standard AT-styled board layout leads to the difficulty of getting these boards to work well? For instance, if you had the RAM on one side of the CPU and the GPU connectors on the other side, would it be easier to route the signals?
i respect you for still using windows 7
filthy casual signing in
Haha!! I think I may also be considered one. :P
I
8:24 4d修不好 (4d cannot be repaired) I wonder what that 4d is
Buildzoid it seems Nvidia super has unlocked voltage. What you think bout it
@IbukiHimari It may not make a big difference, but fiddlers like Buildzoid go to great efforts to get GPU voltages unlocked. And there were bemoans from the clocking community that the voltages on the 20 series were locked tight and conservatively.
I guess he'd like unlocked voltages - but we don't know any details of what Super is yet.
There is no point to talk about rumors, wait for official announcements and reviews.
no chance they unlocked the voltage on it . they don't want to deal with idiots blowing up their cards with a click of the mouse.
not a chance that happens.. considering EVGA even now can't officially include a bios for the 2080ti kingpin to remove the power limit, there's no way nvidia will all of a sudden support it out of the box.
This is your best breakdown video yet! Lots of useful information on the board layout, pcb quality, pcie lane layout etc! Top notch data info for dirty casuals like me :D
Correction: the *2nd* thing people notice about this board is PCIe slots. The 1st would be the price.
How about the ridicously name? GL...
Hi, so I just received this board and all I can say is: remember to lift with the legs, not the back when picking up the package. I showed to my friend (who will be getting my current system when I build this new one) and he literally did a cartoon jaw drop.
beautiful board!!!! i like the x99 godlike also!!! awesome job buildzoid!!!
So, Something Buildzoid would actually find intiresting, is there are Zotac 750 Ti Thunderbolt cards, which were never sold anywhere but china, currently on aliexpress.
Great information as always, except the PCIE power bit...
I kind of wish you could somehow edit this to include that you now know that the extra CPU 8 Pins at the top of the board also supply extra power to the PCIE Slots when needed. This board can absolutely handle 4x480 if you want to without melting the 24pin or the PCIE Slots themselves.
If they have higher quality board materials they might have gone with lower capacitance traces for the RAM (good for latency), and I believe those are more sensitive to RF interference (but only by a miniscule amount). It would probably be easier to glue ferrite planes on the motherboard to try and combat stuff like that though.
CPU's in slots I remember them late 80's into 90's what is old is new again for PCI 4.0
What exactly do you mean? - I don't think we have any CPU's available recently for PCI slots.
Wendell, over at Level 1 Techs said that some newer motherboards like the GODLIKE, ACE and x570 Unify. (The x570 Unify would make a good PCB breakdown board) But, as far as those 3 board's with 2 8pin power connectors for the CPU. The second 8pin also can deliver extra power to the PCI-e x16 slots. Instead of another onboard 6pin.
can t wait to see X570 it in action. Godlike VRM and maybe later this year threadripper using zen2 = crazy powerful cpu lineup
That second 8-pin supplies power to the PCIE too so it doesn't stress the 24-pin.
According to the Buildzoid MSI X570 Unify analysis, it DOES use the extra CPU 8-pin to power the GPUs and thinks other MSI X570 boards do as well, including the Godlike. :)
not it doesn't that was a mistake on my part.
I love your videos for two reasons.. first and foremost, your videos are incredibly educational and informative.. and secondly, you sound like Kermit
Will you do ITX boards? I'll buy one and your review would help a lot.
Is the thingy the *Infinity fabric*? It would be cool to overclock the sh*t out of it.
That would be nice especially if you can use 3200mhz ram, but clock the IF to same clock as 3600mhz ram or even use 4000mhz+ ram at 1 to 1 ratio which would be crazy fast.
Something along the lines of the Northbridge i guess
@@owowowdhxbxgakwlcybwxsimcwx yeah, still would be nice if they give the ability to overclock it.
Tech n' Games
It would be funny if everyone's boards let the smoke out.
I'm intrigued about 'thingy'...
Prolly the IO chip, not?
It will gonna be like CPU-NB in AM3/+
@@Дмитрий-с3п4ы it was called hypertransport (not sure but it had ridiculous bandwidth)
@@mohamadelhassan2446 i think no, coz it have small impact when overclock compared to cpu-nb
Thanks for this review! Say, since you've reviewed the Unify in November 2019 (where the 8 pin CPU power connectors power the GPUs), have you changed your mind on the 8 pin CPU connector(s) powering the GPU (edit: on the Godlike)?
Almost 50 minutes! YASSS!
manufacturers use the -72 power stages instead of the -75 power stages because the -75 power stages aren't available yet/ didn't get available in time.
I went back to watch your GN gigabyte Xtreme video. These 2 boards use the same TDA21472 70A SPS
The giga use REAL 14 phase with new controller
The msi use doubler from 7 into 14
Either its cost-cutting or msi know something we dont
I feel like I would just step down to the ACE and get almost all of the benefits.
Absolutely brilliant excellent content! Thanks for the education. :)
Hey buildzoid do you have any plans on making. A video ranking the best power stages/mosfets that are currently being used, and ones you are excited about in the future?
Great work as always! What is the wheel "button" beside the power switch? And the red "VRM" like cubes on the sound card?
The "red "VRM" like cubes" are poly (probably polypropylene) caps, maybe from Wima, which is one of the best poly cap productors.
What are you expecting from motherboards with B550 chipset? Maybe better VRMs than on the B450/X470? thx
Passive cooling , no vrm extreme, no rgb, only 1gbit lan and 32gb ram, small USB only for drivers, 2-3 PCI ex slots , matisse cpu full support, additional wired fix for pwr/led/hdd etc.if I can run GPU+nvme+sata ssd is fine.
Ciprian he was asking what to expect for b550? As in why would you buy b550 over b450? I would imagine the vrms will definitely be better than b450, probably more usb gen 3.2, beyond that i dont realy know what we could expect. Although it seems there wont be any pcie 4.0 so no chipset fan. B550 is going to be more like the majnstream board this time around. But im almost certain better vrms and usb 3.2 gen 2. The x570 chipset and the added pcb layers to support the pcie 4.0 are the main thing driving up the cost on x570 so it makes sense that to cut cost they would just cut those features and leave the rest. I would even say there will for sure be big beefy vrms on some b550 for people who want high core count but dont need or want pcie 4.0
Probably improved RAM speed support.
@1:16 it really looks like the bottom PCI_E4 slot is wired for 8x. But I checked the spec page on MSI website and it confirms as BZ mentions, x4. Before all the AMD announcements, I was honestly just hoping for PCIE gen 4 to the chipset, and would have been happy with PCIE gen 3 for the extra slots hanging off the PCH, but this is amazing connectivity for a consumer board.
Its on MSIs website now, but no price. Just FYI. ASrock has a couple up, Gigabyte has a few. X570s i mean. Been scoping them out to upgrade my Steel Legend eventually.
Hey Buildzoid whats with the last +1 in the VRM description on the GODLIKE website says :
'Flagship 14+4+1 phases IR digital VRM and brand-new infinity design, symbolizes the unlimited performance and power.'
And the ACE mobo says:
'Win games and set records with 12+2+1 IR digital power'
Total 18 phase of mosfet and choke. Yeah kinda curious what is this "+1"
@@fernandokurniawan4079 The "1" is 99% the memory VRM phase. DDR4 doesn't need much power.
At 20:27 The missing component is actually a capacitor and the button and the capacitor might be in the final product. I think this is a final product picture on the MSI site : asset.msi.com/resize/image/global/product/product_6_20190527092315_5ceb3c032904b.png62405b38c58fe0f07fcef2367d8a9ba1/1024.png
4-way FuryX, I guess that this answers my question who would be crazy enough to buy a 1200V PSU. :)
I don't need two graphics cards. But I **DO** want an x16 slot for a card PLUS an x4-x4-x4-x4 slot so I can run a 4-card M.2 RAID array. Plus another two (not necessarily 16 lanes) for, er, stuff. Gimme.
If dual 8 pins at the top aren't needed, why can't extra 12v pcie power be pulled from there?
Because those 8 pins are meant for the cpu and not pcie and I think that the mobo manufacturers imagine us literally destroying every cpu, so they were like "You need more power" 😂😂 but yeah they could have done what you said. Just ignore this comment. I don't care and neither are they
Because while one is enough there are instances were poor cables and large power output could equal houses burning down and they don't want the risk of pushing them to their theoretical limits.
@@thehumangerm but for ryzen CPUs there is actually almost no way of that happening unless there is a defect in the actual wires or something similar. Thanks mate ✌
@@rockingttalent3666 wire defects on cables is quite common.
Are you also doing the Crosshair 8 on your channel? Can't wait to see you do the rest of the 30 ASUS boards over on Gamers Nexus.
Can't wait to see all the flavors of 4 phase VRM ASUS X570 boards, now with and without chipset fans, VRM monoblocks, and varying amounts of I/O on the boards /s
The price makes my eyes water. Holy shitballs.
But Buildzoid, the MSI reps themselves in the interview with hardware cannucks told us that the X570 godlike is supposed to run a PCIE 4.0 Bridge chip and offer 16+16+16+4. Why is your board not the right MSI X570 MEG Godlike? Are there two versions of the board?
I think THIS one is somewhat of an engineering sample, the retail one looks a bit different!
Great videos! But are manufacturers crazy?? For the price of this motherboard, I have build my PC a couple of weeks ago...
When the full line of Ryzen chips and x570 boards are out I would like to know (with an unlimited budget) what should I buy to get the best without wasting money. I run (win 10) yuck! and steam games. I already have the coolermaster 500p mesh case and a scythe fuma rev b for cpu cooling. I will be looking nvivida for gpu. Hopefully can contact you and get a paid for consult???? The corsair new super fast nvme when released that will also be purchased. Knowing the right board and memory would be great. Thx for the great vids....
Why is that that my M5A99FX PRO R2.0 (FX motherboard) has a chipset northbridge that has 20W output... and no fan on a relatively small chunk of aluminium, but a 14W chipset needs a massive heatsink with fan?
I mean it gets hot (so hot that I put a 50mm radial "3D printer head" fan on it), but it seems like they just don't want stuff to get hot, rather than needing it to stay within spec?
Since Gigabyte apparently sells a top-end board with a passively-cooled chipset, that points to the ability of all of the boards to come with passive cooling. Instead, though, they're either using passive cooling to sell people overpriced boards or they're waiting for the 2.0 round to try to get people to buy based on these improvements.
Referring to from 04:53 in. So Buildzoid, 4 x 75W (300+ Watts in total) is too much to go through the 2 x 12V lines of the 24-pin connector, without 6-pin CPU connector support. But how much PCI-e slot Wattage **in total** can go safely through the 2 x 12V lines of the 24-pin connector, without 6-pin CPU connector support?
Hey here's something really stupid, can't you modify vBioses to limit the powerdraw from the pcie slot? I remember seeing something like that in a vBios editor. Correct me if I'm wrong :)
That's a good question. IDK about Nvidia's Turing but AMD's upcoming Navi is going to be locked even tighter on hacking that stuff. I know you can hack that stuff on Vega and Polaris though. I think I've heard you can on Pascal but I'm not as certain.
An even better question then will be will AMD expose a legit option to limit PCIe slot power on Navi. That could also explain Navi having those seemingly unnecessary dual 8 pins. Since Navi is thus far the only announced GPU architecture you could actually run quad-gpu on this board with if you could work out the power issue.
@@abigailpatridge2948 I saw this on my GTX 970 so it could've been locked already
Improved PCB, very flexible, won't crack. ;)
They could've put a molex or 6-pin instead of the enigneering button at the bottom. Rev 2 please!
So which board per specs from each manufacturer would you recommend for no overclocking but 7-10 year use (looking for stability for production) and which board would you recommend for best chance overclocking (which one should we keep an eye out for reviews). Thank you for the video.
When are we going to see some Asus boards? I'm getting an Asus X570 motherboard and would like see them.
DragonBane im wondering the same. I think buildzoid said in a previous mobo breakdown that steve from gamers nexus was asking to get pictures of the boards at computex and asus wouldnt let then take pictures. But im wondering the same. Bad decision for asus i was almost certainly getting an asus crosshair 8 hero since the crosshair hero has been money for first and second gen ryzen, but now that all of these breakdowns are out there i have all but decided i wont be getting asus since we have no info on them. And dropping 350 dollars or more with little to no information about the board is a no go for me if im throwing a 500 cpu in there
4 Phase SOC?
sounds like a good board to crank a 3400G on then KappaRoss
(shh DON'T ASK WHY YOU'D RUN AN APU ON A TOP-END BOARD)
it is a stupid 4 phase... At least not a two in terms of APU overclocking
But this board dont have video output tho lol.
Damn bastards thought it through!
But Buildzoid.... will you show us the thingy?
BTW, at 21:50 you specify what the jumper JLN1 is "according to the manual of the board". I could not find the manual at the MSI website. Are you allowed to share the manual or do you know where to find it already?
Little late to the party, but the extra 8-pin couldn't be supplying the extra 12v needed for the 4-way-sli?
Asus TUF and P X570 boards apparently put 3 powerstages into a phase :D , and of course being Asus there's no doublers whatsoever (odd number powerstages per phase in a controller can't use them anyway)
So between this and the prestige, which one would you use for both video editing and gaming while using a 3950x processor?
have you ever considered doing efficiency and ripple measurements on vrm designs?
ripple and transient response yes. Efficiency is pretty much impossible to do since you can't really measure the 100A+ coming out of the VRM without causing problems.
Maybe some of the CPU 12V lines help power the PCIe slots.. I mean, they have a lot of power budget on those connectors to spare.
It would at least make rational sense, if they have far too much CPU 12V lines, and not enough PCIe 12V lines.
Also, why keep the 24 pin and PCIe 12 V plane separate from the CPU 12 V plane? Just in case you don't have one connected, and you don't want the other to be overloaded? Surely they can just sense if something isn't connected, or some of the lines are being overloaded.. ?
Great breakdown! Question though,
5:37 , You mentioned you shouldn't run four high-end GPU's due to not enough power via the 24-pin, and that could cause damage
But if your high-end GPU is a GTX 1080 TI, and comes with a 6-pin and 8-pin slot built into it, wouldn't you just run that into the PSU and bypass
having to use that 24-pin?
some of VGA VRMs use PCI-e slot's power lines for one or two phase of gpu or vmem and the others phases gets power by 6- & 8- pin connectors.
@@someone7565 You just went beyond my knowledge lol!
I'm assuming your confirming that 4x 1080 TI's on this board, would still be too much?
@@DanielBelaytv I think if you put 4 variations of 1080 Ti, which minimally use the power of PCIe slots, it will work fine, but I can't say which models of 1080 Ti is it.
@@someone7565 Cool, thanks again for the helpful response!
Well, if you can only achieve 300A with LN2, would the VRM really need a heatsink for 24W then? :D
Vega does not support 4 way crossfire. But you can use the new multi GPU tech in new direct X . I mean hell you can used mixed GPUs in that :D
Buildzoid do you think Radeon X5700 series custom cards will release on July or do you feel classic late ass?
Is there a possibility that the "Ridiculous overkill extra 8 pin" can provide extra power the pcie slots?
It shouldn't if it's wired like 100% of mobos I'm aware of.
Could the board divert power from the 2 8-pins EPS power connectors to the PCIe slots? Since those could handle about 800W of power, diverting up to 300W doesn't seem like a stretch to me. Not sure if it's at all possible, however since the PCIe slots don't have sense pins like the PCIe power connectors, it may as well be.
Is there gonna be a video about the thingy once the NDA lifts? Now I'm curious :D
probably though I'm gonna be super busy on launch week so it will take some time before I produce anything.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking is it under NDA until the 1st when preorder start or are they going to just be like... Surprise!
When will they lift NDA tho?
So Buildzoid must explain why one wants to have many PCIe slots other than for graphics cards? whoaw. I guess the PC gaming scene really is in trouble.
You said Asus refuses to use doublers but doesnt the C7 Hero has doublers as well? I ask because I plan to use that board for the new Ryzen CPUs and was wondering if this would be better for normal OC. Main reason os because X570 look to be very expensive just for PCIE4.
what is the DAMN THINGY ?? :D
Rule number 1 of thingy: we dont talk about thingy.
BCLK buttons I can last remember on the green gigabyte xoc boards from z77
How is the impact of the VRM on the power consumption? (In basic usage, and not super high inefficient Overclock?
And are 4*4gb Ram better than 2*8gb? I saw some videos that let it look like. DUAL Channel MEMORY BOARD and same Timings etc ! (In this video it sounds not like it, but why could it be true, if it was the case? )
Fun fact: the X370 Xpower has a slow mode jumper :-)
TIME TRAVELER.
Guys I really don't think the "Thingy" is the infinity fabric. It doesn't make any sense that it would be that since it's tied directly to memory frequency at either half/memfreq or quarter/memfreq. Infinity fabric, even on Zen 2 is very unlikely to be stable past 1800Mhz.
I'm thinking it's probably related to the chipset or maybe something in the I/O die.
We'll only really know for sure what the "Thingy" is though once the review embargo lifts which is probably either release day or within the week leading up to it.
Actually from AMD's own slides we already know it clocks to at least 1866 MHz on Zen2. That could be its limit, or it could possibly eke out a little more yet, but AMD specifically showed a slide showing that they could get to 3733 MHz RAM clocks without changing the IF ratio in their own testing. IIRC the next speed shown in the same slide, the first with the IF ratio changed, was a pretty big jump though, so that's why I wouldn't be too surprised if there's even just a little more room left still. Not much though.
@@abigailpatridge2948 Oh yeah I am sure there is a bit left in the tank but then you're gambling on silicon quality past 1866. I hope we can hit 2Ghz IF-Freqency but that's going to depend on quite a few factors like memory controller, the infiinity fabric itself and its associated parts, trace layout, and of course your ram itself.
@@BereanAcademyGamingClub I doubt we'll see 2 GHz except maybe on a handful of golden samples, and they'll probably be only on the 16 core at that. There's no reason AMD won't be binning the IOC's since they're on their own chip now.
Quick question, i have superclocked a Kepler card, temps are like 55 degrees celcius +360mhz on the core but i get some micro-artifacting which don't really bother me when i'm playing, but is it ok for the card? Do artifacts degrade it?
Opinions needed, found a used one for $760 CAD, should I buy!? It's either this board or a new Crosshair VIII Hero for $500.
At 6:17 there are two 8-pin power connectors (up-left corner of the mobo). The MSI site says they are CPU power pins, and you're saying that you would add a 6-pin CPU pin. Could it be that these power the PCIe..? Or is it just for the CPU overlocking? (MSI does say these are for the core boost). Edit: I probably should have watched the video all the way through first, you do explain this at 20:09, and so these are just for the CPU. So it would have been better for MSI to not have these, and have a 6-pin instead...
What's funny MSI motherboards are the only one left without even preliminary Zen2 support - microcode (and all PSP stuff) is missing and there's no way to replace it as it's smallest among all x470 boards (tried and tested different ways of doing this with an AC7 user, no luck)
Just get those power connector things you put in the PCIE slot on ebay or IDK if EVGA still sells them; they used to.....Or obviously you can just make them
Is it a good idea to crank up the switching frequency of the VRM to sacrifice some efficiency to smooth out the voltage?
So for SLI one card would be in 8x slot? Or does it not matter because 4.0?
What's that "4d修不好" sticker on the USB cover?
25:14 you say "at least for AMD motherboards" is there a reason why a controller can be used on Intel but not AMD and vice versa?
Architectural reasons probably, like memory access patterns and straight up wiring, the pinning is very different from amd to Intel iirc
Being ryzen 3000 only gives 16 lanes to the GPUs and other such things. Would it be possible to use a HTC vive wireless adapter while having two rx vega cards in your system as the adapter only needs a 1x slot or would you just not have enough?
So Buildzoid which X570 would you pick? This or the Aorus Xtreme?
On paper both look far too good to make a choice.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking but you believe this one will do memory support better and most everything else is a wash between them? Doesn't that make this the better board?
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Passive chipset cooling on the Gigabyte?
High-end Infiniband (network) cards will actually need 16x PCIe 4 or 2x16x PCIe 3.
What I find most interesting is the CPU bracket. Isn't that an AM3+ mounting bracket on an AM4 mobo?