What you failed to mention is that it also highly depends on where you live. Your advise might be good if you live in the US, but if you live in a country that doesn't have a gaming industry to begin with, it's impossible to apply for a job that doesn't exist. In that case going indie is the only option left, if you want to start a career as a game dev.
In Finland. sure we have big game scene. but indie way is pretty much only way because there are 200+ unemployed applicants for job position. and more keeps coming. you need to make experience to beat others and well that is indie. @@Unity3dCollege
also, in mz part of europe, average salary is about 2000 euro monthly (and even lower in some countries) - so it's a way different case and amount of money you need to make than US
I was editing, saw it there, then thought i'd leave it there to see if anyone asked about it in comments lol :) I'd like to thank you for calling it out!
If your next meal depends on ppl buying your game, then that actually reduces your creative freedom. You have to make what's popular, or take on contract work - basically guarantee income, so you can keep the lights on.
I've been trying to get a job in AAA/AA for the past 6 years, with a dozen interviews, but not one offer. With the popularity of mass layoffs recently, I don't see getting a job in AAA anytime soon. I'm not sure AAA is even an option anymore. It looks like I'll be continuing my Indie Dev journey. I'll keep shipping my own games until someone notices me or one of them is a financial success.
Hot take, your all wrong. Start AA, it gives you tons of opportunities and lots of chances to get far more responsibility and impact earlier. From AA you can easily move whatever direction you want since now you have experience and published work.
True, but the AA studios aren't multinational and don't hire as many people. You have lower odds of getting in, and it's much more dependent on locale.
@@mandisaw You'd be surprised how many companies in the AA space are foreign themselves. They individually do not hire a ton of people but there are tons of these out there. Not just game companies, but what I call game adjacent. Personally I started in advertising companies using unity.
@@vakuzar It certainly is different US vs elsewhere. I believe in many countries/regions, AA support companies are pretty much the norm. In the States though, it's more of a mix.
Not everyone have the opportunity to work in none indei game studio Everyone have the opportunity to work as indei developer even if it's not a studio I don't say just because you able to be indei developer that you have to be developer in fact be game development, game disaing ECT it's not easy task For example I personally want to work in big game studios at least for the expirense. But I don't have the opportunity to getting there. My county dasn't have game development jobs as fur I'm award and I don't know how to make the nessery paperwork and portfolio to getting a real development job and I don't know any person that works on those companies in the order to help my So my only option is to work as Solo developer at this point
I started in AAA myself and now work for a small company. If I were to go indie, I would say working at the smaller company has prepared me more. AAA felt like I was always doing the same thing everyday, and it got to a point where I was not learning anything new on the job. Either way, both were great learning experiences!
I like these talks, because they may save time and effort for most of the people who think to try something that won't be profitable enough, but also less trash in game sites and less competition.
I do miss the times when I was a "full-time indie". But at the same time, there was a constant stream of anxiety about what to do next, and how to get funding, etc. I still work in games, but in a more "traditional" position. And while I sometimes lack that (near) absolute freedom, I think my mental health is much better know that the financial worry has been taken out of the equation.
You're not wrong, but I think it's being understated how difficult it is to land a game dev job in AA and AAA companies. Shipping an indie game even when it fails financially demonstrates ability and persistence to AA and AAA companies.
I totally agree with the arguments in the video, but videos with these kind of clickbait titles have been getting on my nerve lately. It goes without saying that starting your own business will always be more riskier than getting a stable 9-5, especially in games industry, but most of the games I love the most started out as solo developed projects. I just personally think that if you really love game development, you should always strive towards working on something you love. Maybe get a stable job in a bigger company, and if you feel adventurous, save some money and work on your own stuff.
Awesome video. As a 33 year old who is in college for programming. The reality is I’m getting older so I need to prioritize my time and money for my family. Trying to become an indie dev for the experience and possible flexibility seems like the way but at the same time, joining any triple A studio to possibly move up in the company and have health care seems like the way for someone my age.
If anything, I think Jason's under-selling it. If you actually need a steady income, health insurance [US], benefits, etc then AAA (or at least a stable AA) seems to be the best option. And my obs is that the games industry seems to run on networking & personal relationships, akin to other entertainment fields. Unfortunately they still under-pay vs the wider market, especially for programmers. Depending where you live, and what kinds of projects you've done, and are interested in, you may be better off with a non-games day-job (see earlier vid). You can always make your own games on your own time, whether you work in games by day or not.
i just give it up and its just a hobby... just cant make it to AAA or indie or even any development... im 34 and learning programming for 4years... havent got a time for another 4y to be useful :D ... not everyobe can make it, just a true :)
@@rudolfbouzek6944 Hobby development is cool too! And even if you struggle with programming, there are plenty of ways to make small games without much coding - just look up "low-code game engine"
You are all talking like you are stone old and about to die soon... You have at least 25-30 years ahead, and you can make great use of your life experience to make good progress
@@areyounecessaryCertainly "life happens", and folks can be legitimately delayed, but whether you see projects through to the end or not is down to maturity and fortitude. Remain adaptable, but make plans and track progress. Write down cool ideas, but don't let yourself be distracted by them. Consider changes seriously, in terms of what they might add, but also what they would cost (in time, money, and complexity). Assess feasibility before you start to commit resources. Know when your endpoint or quit-point will be. A lot of this stuff applies equally to projects at work or game-dev as it does to self-improvement or education. If you have the determination to make it happen, you will work to see it through to the end (or recognize when it's okay to quit).
Yup. I don't think it's either-or. But that said, I've met a lot of folks who got into games to make their dream game, and then never did. IMO whether you make your own games or not, the same issues of actually seeing it through (and few ppl successfully doing so) apply.
I think from a general standpoint it depends on the person that is creating. To me, it's not just about having the creative freedom of being an indie dev. It's about the strife and struggle you have to go through to earn the right to call yourself a dev. It's about a love of the art. It should not be about the money. I do understand if you want to get into if for the money. But for me it's about those moments when I'm combing through internet looking for that one post or video that gets me to that eureka moment where I figure it out. Whatever that may be. I live and die for the puzzle combined with seeing my art come to life. Granted, I do have a day job that pays decently. But I am willing to take that risk just to see my art out in the world. Even if I am the only one that appreciates it. It's like watching your child grow and stand on its own. From that first line of code or asset download all the way through people giving the nitpicky negative comments about that one test asset you left in by mistake. 🙂 If you do want to go for the money, I would also recommend a AA studio. I work in an enterprise environment and you usually don't mean anything to the people that run it. It can be soulless and apathetic. AA seems like it would be with people that actually care. That means a more healthy mindset when actually developing. I'll shut up now.
There are many low effort Mobile games that are terrible but still make more money than most of the triple A game titles. The mobile game market doesn't care how much production value a game has. This can be an advantage for indie.
I think the myth of the solo/micro indie, with barely enough skills & zero-exp just dovetails with the myth of the millionaire techbro, and the idea that everyone should be an entrepreneur. At best it's misleading, at worst it drains your time, money, and motivation. Being an indie for fun/hobby is great, and should be encouraged. Working in games can be great, and should be encouraged. But if you want to make & sell games, that is a business, and needs to be treated as such. You need skills, capital, time, and the maturity and grit to see each project through to the end, despite the ups & downs. I think a lot of folks love the myth, but live the reality, and most of game-dev YT feeds that. It's not all that healthy, I think, so glad you dropped a little truth.
I just wish I had the opportunity. I don't have the experience the remote jobs want, and I don't have the money/skill (I assume) to move where the AAAs are.
Tripple A is all about the money these days anyway. If anything we need MORE INDY DEVs. RUclipsr's are "indy" also. Why dont you quit and go work for a local news station or something??
Yep, Unfortunately most Indie developers (me included) are deluded about the quality and value of their own game. Procrastination and low morale mid way through development leads to most Indie game orojects being shelved. Good fun though. Great as a hobby.
I think the indie route is high risk high reward. You can do far better than on AAA companies if you are really good and/or lucky. However most should realise that they are not top 10% and AAA developers are probably a much safer route. I studied game development and love working on my projects, but I got programming job on another field.
it's way too cold here to wear something else! + it's my razer hoodie :) Also the title may be a bit clickbaity, but I really believe everything in there. I don't think people should never be indie devs, but I think there's a lot of advice against getting into AAA that misses some of the biggest benefits of the industry :)
Some trolls here lol. I'm at least Jason's age and wear hoodies everyday. Also their game Dev show gets asked this like 50% of the time during the show. The video makes sense to me.
I wonder if a starting game dev who wants to develop in Unity or UE5 and can invest just a few hours per week, can get into teams to work together on game projects. I am not talking about money or getting contracts etc . just to learn how to develop a game from the beginning till the end. I bought several courses from udemy and gamedev (since many others are expensive or they miss a lot of content). I know that several people will tell me about free YT stuff but I have checked several of them and they miss so many things. Unfortunately I am new to this industry and I can't find a source that has most of the things that I will need to make a good game. Maybe I am wrong and I have not searched enough :)
Definitely. The hardest part there is finding others who have a matching level of dedication fir the team part. But I know a few devs who've built amd released multiple games just working 6-10h a week in spare time (they do have other coding experience though that Definitely makes it a but easier)
@@Unity3dCollegeHi ! Thank you for your reply :) My dream is to make an Eve Offline game (aka single player Eve Online) and a Satisfactory like game. I know that they are not easy to make but I can't find a source that has almost everything s/one needs to make a game and be updated according to latest versions. Yea maybe I am asking a lot but it is difficult to be outside game dev industry, have family and still trying to make a game of your dreams :) I am afraid that I can't find an excellent solution to that. Also I switched from Unity to UE5 and I hope that I won't regret it :)
I don't need this kind of topics at the current phase of my work. This is the second title from this channel that discouraged me from doing what I'm doing...
There is a lot of pressure on programmers in game dev companies even non game dev programmers like the ones that do the web development in game company work less and getting more respect or at least this was my experience, also another downside is that in case if the game became successful as indie you get a lot of money but in a company you paid like any other month
What you failed to mention is that it also highly depends on where you live.
Your advise might be good if you live in the US, but if you live in a country that doesn't have a gaming industry to begin with, it's impossible to apply for a job that doesn't exist.
In that case going indie is the only option left, if you want to start a career as a game dev.
Very fair point! I'm also near a lot of gaming companies being near LA
In Finland. sure we have big game scene. but indie way is pretty much only way because there are 200+ unemployed applicants for job position. and more keeps coming. you need to make experience to beat others and well that is indie. @@Unity3dCollege
also, in mz part of europe, average salary is about 2000 euro monthly (and even lower in some countries) - so it's a way different case and amount of money you need to make than US
What is up with the second floating head in the circle?
I was editing, saw it there, then thought i'd leave it there to see if anyone asked about it in comments lol :) I'd like to thank you for calling it out!
Some (of us) devs simply care more for/about creative freedom(s) ... whatever makes a dev happy, I guess.
If your next meal depends on ppl buying your game, then that actually reduces your creative freedom. You have to make what's popular, or take on contract work - basically guarantee income, so you can keep the lights on.
I've been trying to get a job in AAA/AA for the past 6 years, with a dozen interviews, but not one offer. With the popularity of mass layoffs recently, I don't see getting a job in AAA anytime soon. I'm not sure AAA is even an option anymore. It looks like I'll be continuing my Indie Dev journey. I'll keep shipping my own games until someone notices me or one of them is a financial success.
Hot take, your all wrong.
Start AA, it gives you tons of opportunities and lots of chances to get far more responsibility and impact earlier. From AA you can easily move whatever direction you want since now you have experience and published work.
True, but the AA studios aren't multinational and don't hire as many people. You have lower odds of getting in, and it's much more dependent on locale.
@@mandisaw You'd be surprised how many companies in the AA space are foreign themselves.
They individually do not hire a ton of people but there are tons of these out there. Not just game companies, but what I call game adjacent. Personally I started in advertising companies using unity.
@@vakuzar It certainly is different US vs elsewhere. I believe in many countries/regions, AA support companies are pretty much the norm. In the States though, it's more of a mix.
Not everyone have the opportunity to work in none indei game studio
Everyone have the opportunity to work as indei developer even if it's not a studio
I don't say just because you able to be indei developer that you have to be developer in fact be game development, game disaing ECT it's not easy task
For example I personally want to work in big game studios at least for the expirense.
But I don't have the opportunity to getting there.
My county dasn't have game development jobs as fur I'm award and I don't know how to make the nessery paperwork and portfolio to getting a real development job and I don't know any person that works on those companies in the order to help my
So my only option is to work as Solo developer at this point
I started in AAA myself and now work for a small company. If I were to go indie, I would say working at the smaller company has prepared me more. AAA felt like I was always doing the same thing everyday, and it got to a point where I was not learning anything new on the job. Either way, both were great learning experiences!
Era of dismorale videos from Jason has begun 😂
I like these talks, because they may save time and effort for most of the people who think to try something that won't be profitable enough, but also less trash in game sites and less competition.
I do miss the times when I was a "full-time indie". But at the same time, there was a constant stream of anxiety about what to do next, and how to get funding, etc. I still work in games, but in a more "traditional" position. And while I sometimes lack that (near) absolute freedom, I think my mental health is much better know that the financial worry has been taken out of the equation.
If you wanna be a worker, go work. If your creative and have drive, be a game dev. Let the world experience your craft, it's worth it
You're not wrong, but I think it's being understated how difficult it is to land a game dev job in AA and AAA companies. Shipping an indie game even when it fails financially demonstrates ability and persistence to AA and AAA companies.
I totally agree with the arguments in the video, but videos with these kind of clickbait titles have been getting on my nerve lately. It goes without saying that starting your own business will always be more riskier than getting a stable 9-5, especially in games industry, but most of the games I love the most started out as solo developed projects. I just personally think that if you really love game development, you should always strive towards working on something you love. Maybe get a stable job in a bigger company, and if you feel adventurous, save some money and work on your own stuff.
Awesome video. As a 33 year old who is in college for programming. The reality is I’m getting older so I need to prioritize my time and money for my family.
Trying to become an indie dev for the experience and possible flexibility seems like the way but at the same time, joining any triple A studio to possibly move up in the company and have health care seems like the way for someone my age.
If anything, I think Jason's under-selling it. If you actually need a steady income, health insurance [US], benefits, etc then AAA (or at least a stable AA) seems to be the best option. And my obs is that the games industry seems to run on networking & personal relationships, akin to other entertainment fields.
Unfortunately they still under-pay vs the wider market, especially for programmers. Depending where you live, and what kinds of projects you've done, and are interested in, you may be better off with a non-games day-job (see earlier vid). You can always make your own games on your own time, whether you work in games by day or not.
Saaame
i just give it up and its just a hobby... just cant make it to AAA or indie or even any development... im 34 and learning programming for 4years... havent got a time for another 4y to be useful :D ... not everyobe can make it, just a true :)
@@rudolfbouzek6944 Hobby development is cool too! And even if you struggle with programming, there are plenty of ways to make small games without much coding - just look up "low-code game engine"
You are all talking like you are stone old and about to die soon...
You have at least 25-30 years ahead, and you can make great use of your life experience to make good progress
What if you want to keep Indie game Dev as a hobby or a side job along side a full time? There is always time on the weekend or after work
Thomas Happ did this when he developed Axiom Verge. Took him five years to finish it.
I think the progress will be slow and probably you will burn out doing the same things in free time. The brain needs breaks and variety to rest.
@@areyounecessaryCertainly "life happens", and folks can be legitimately delayed, but whether you see projects through to the end or not is down to maturity and fortitude. Remain adaptable, but make plans and track progress. Write down cool ideas, but don't let yourself be distracted by them. Consider changes seriously, in terms of what they might add, but also what they would cost (in time, money, and complexity). Assess feasibility before you start to commit resources. Know when your endpoint or quit-point will be.
A lot of this stuff applies equally to projects at work or game-dev as it does to self-improvement or education. If you have the determination to make it happen, you will work to see it through to the end (or recognize when it's okay to quit).
Yup. I don't think it's either-or. But that said, I've met a lot of folks who got into games to make their dream game, and then never did. IMO whether you make your own games or not, the same issues of actually seeing it through (and few ppl successfully doing so) apply.
Why people hate hearing the truth?
Because often the truth isn't pleasant.
I think from a general standpoint it depends on the person that is creating. To me, it's not just about having the creative freedom of being an indie dev. It's about the strife and struggle you have to go through to earn the right to call yourself a dev. It's about a love of the art. It should not be about the money. I do understand if you want to get into if for the money. But for me it's about those moments when I'm combing through internet looking for that one post or video that gets me to that eureka moment where I figure it out. Whatever that may be. I live and die for the puzzle combined with seeing my art come to life. Granted, I do have a day job that pays decently. But I am willing to take that risk just to see my art out in the world. Even if I am the only one that appreciates it. It's like watching your child grow and stand on its own. From that first line of code or asset download all the way through people giving the nitpicky negative comments about that one test asset you left in by mistake. 🙂
If you do want to go for the money, I would also recommend a AA studio. I work in an enterprise environment and you usually don't mean anything to the people that run it. It can be soulless and apathetic. AA seems like it would be with people that actually care. That means a more healthy mindset when actually developing. I'll shut up now.
There are many low effort Mobile games that are terrible but still make more money than most of the triple A game titles. The mobile game market doesn't care how much production value a game has. This can be an advantage for indie.
why are the comments so negative?
They're not too bad :)
They're being told some truths they don't want to hear.
I think the myth of the solo/micro indie, with barely enough skills & zero-exp just dovetails with the myth of the millionaire techbro, and the idea that everyone should be an entrepreneur. At best it's misleading, at worst it drains your time, money, and motivation.
Being an indie for fun/hobby is great, and should be encouraged. Working in games can be great, and should be encouraged.
But if you want to make & sell games, that is a business, and needs to be treated as such. You need skills, capital, time, and the maturity and grit to see each project through to the end, despite the ups & downs. I think a lot of folks love the myth, but live the reality, and most of game-dev YT feeds that. It's not all that healthy, I think, so glad you dropped a little truth.
TLDR, If you are a soul sucking corporate type with no passion and just care about money, Game Dev isnt the right job for you, thank you!
I just wish I had the opportunity. I don't have the experience the remote jobs want, and I don't have the money/skill (I assume) to move where the AAAs are.
nice clickbait
Tripple A is all about the money these days anyway. If anything we need MORE INDY DEVs. RUclipsr's are "indy" also. Why dont you quit and go work for a local news station or something??
why would I be an indiedev if I shouldnt be a gamedev lol? (prev. video ref.)
Yep, Unfortunately most Indie developers (me included) are deluded about the quality and value of their own game. Procrastination and low morale mid way through development leads to most Indie game orojects being shelved. Good fun though. Great as a hobby.
I think the indie route is high risk high reward. You can do far better than on AAA companies if you are really good and/or lucky. However most should realise that they are not top 10% and AAA developers are probably a much safer route. I studied game development and love working on my projects, but I got programming job on another field.
But AAA will also hire only the top 10% so it's basically the same
Truth!👍💪👏😄
Hi from the bay area. Glad to see that you are still active making games.
One more clickbait demoralizing title and I'm unsubbing.
I am doing an unsub because at a certain age you should not be wearing a hoodie.
it's way too cold here to wear something else! + it's my razer hoodie :)
Also the title may be a bit clickbaity, but I really believe everything in there. I don't think people should never be indie devs, but I think there's a lot of advice against getting into AAA that misses some of the biggest benefits of the industry :)
Jason is saying out the quite part out loud. It needs to be said. We need to keep it real. Gamedev is not for everyone!
Gamedev bro 4 life 😎
Some trolls here lol. I'm at least Jason's age and wear hoodies everyday. Also their game Dev show gets asked this like 50% of the time during the show. The video makes sense to me.
Are you mad about the title, or the message? Gotta say, it's refreshing to hear from folks in Dev-RUclips who mix in a little honesty & experience.
The audio is out-of-sync.
I wonder if a starting game dev who wants to develop in Unity or UE5 and can invest just a few hours per week, can get into teams to work together on game projects. I am not talking about money or getting contracts etc . just to learn how to develop a game from the beginning till the end. I bought several courses from udemy and gamedev (since many others are expensive or they miss a lot of content). I know that several people will tell me about free YT stuff but I have checked several of them and they miss so many things. Unfortunately I am new to this industry and I can't find a source that has most of the things that I will need to make a good game. Maybe I am wrong and I have not searched enough :)
Definitely. The hardest part there is finding others who have a matching level of dedication fir the team part. But I know a few devs who've built amd released multiple games just working 6-10h a week in spare time (they do have other coding experience though that Definitely makes it a but easier)
@@Unity3dCollegeHi ! Thank you for your reply :) My dream is to make an Eve Offline game (aka single player Eve Online) and a Satisfactory like game. I know that they are not easy to make but I can't find a source that has almost everything s/one needs to make a game and be updated according to latest versions. Yea maybe I am asking a lot but it is difficult to be outside game dev industry, have family and still trying to make a game of your dreams :) I am afraid that I can't find an excellent solution to that. Also I switched from Unity to UE5 and I hope that I won't regret it :)
Grifter
I don't need this kind of topics at the current phase of my work. This is the second title from this channel that discouraged me from doing what I'm doing...
There is a lot of pressure on programmers in game dev companies even non game dev programmers like the ones that do the web development in game company work less and getting more respect or at least this was my experience, also another downside is that in case if the game became successful as indie you get a lot of money but in a company you paid like any other month
thank youuu
You're so old xD
YEP!